Toni Morrison Beautifully Answers an "Illegitimate" Question on Race (Jan. 19, 1998) | Charlie Rose
Вставка
- Опубліковано 3 вер 2015
- In 1998, Charlie asked Toni Morrison about a question a journalist had once posed to her: "Can you imagine writing a novel not centered around race?" This is her amazing response.
- Розваги
What his question is actually saying is "when you gonna stop making white people feel *uncomfortable* ?"
Thats exactly
What he meant. Spot on.
mochawitch totally agree with you beautiful lady 👍🏽
Exactly. Whiteness is fragile...
@Fin Zen Funny, as a person of color (Black) I love Dean Koontz and never even thought about him using Black characters. Maybe he hasn't much experience with us.
Well if white people did not do uncomfortable acts that harm the mental health and well-being of black people then there would be no need for them to feel uncomfortable in the first place. Our actions start with ourselves. White people just need to understand the cause and effect of their actions.
‘As if our lives have no meaning, no depth, without the white gaze.’
She is absolutely correct.
BEAUTIFUL!!!!
When I heard her say that, it shook me to my core. It is so, so true.
@Erica Edwards @Lady
TRUTH
Black people keep themselves there. No one can raise and stand but in their own. Victim hood is a choice
@Esther A you never can win with some of the white people. You know they always have to flip their shit on you not realizing they had to use our ancestors backs for their children and grandchildren of today to have what they got now. But it's always someone like this dude, Jacob Jorgensen, who says something stupid.
I love how Toni Morrison put the question back on Charlie Rose by saying essentially, 'What else could it mean?' And then she explained why the question was multi-layered and actually racist. He couldn't muster an argument for his implication that she was reading too much into the question. Ms Morrison, such a deep thinker and beautiful communicator!
It was very important that she went back at him in that way. For decades Rose was positioned as this elegantly neutral, cosmopolitan intellectual-- when in fact we now know that he was a completely unprofessional abuser of his own power. I never understood his popularity, and always noticed the conservatism lurking under his supposedly innocent, "curious" questions.
How could the question be read any other way? It's difficult not to feel that his condescension is also gender biased. Embarrassing hubris on his part, so self righteous.
Not disagreeing, but Charlie read a question from another journalist
Edit: In all honesty, I don't know anything about Charlie Rose
@@povilasbuda6490 A clever way to say what you want to say without taking responsibility for it. Rose knew what he was doing.
@@SuperRobertoClemente I see
I love how Toni literally walked him through and explained and educated him on how silly question is, love it
Even though he didn’t need or deserve it.
He needed it. Deserve it? I'm not sure what is meant by that. He had Toni Morrison's gaze. If you meant he didn't deserve it. I think you might be right.@@autumnjade815
It wasn’t his question. It was someone else’s question that she’d answered in a frustrated manner and be wanted her to elucidate. She did explain to him why she didn’t overreact to the question though
Not literally, but thats cool…
shes an angry person venting about her past.. but go head
"Its not a literary question... its a sociological one..."
EXACTLY
But literature reflects our society.
masspence1. Exactly! And you live in a brown world. Are you overseen by their brown gaze? No, because they do not see you as inferior or superior, and not because you are beneath them.
Literature reflects society because writers write what they see and what they feel. It's not about living up to "sociological truth." Mirrors don't care about what they reflect, the just reflect
Her and Dr. Francis Cress Welsing........they remind me of each other. Powerful ancestors
The best answer would be EXPLAIN YOUR QUESTION PLEASE.
with grace.
with clear articulation.
without being defensive.
without anger.
Would it be less valid if she were angry? If she were defensive? If she were less "articulate" or didn't speak in a way deemed as "intelligent" by white society? If she were rougher and more rigid than graceful? Hoping this isn't to invalidate Black women who don't check off these boxes created for us. Respectability politics is not cute and I'm sure if you catch Toni Morrison on the right day, the checks in those boxes might get erased.
@Dream Dream Serene My first feeling reading this. So true.
@Dream Dream Serene Graceful and articulate? Well she's a professor and a writer, why wouldn't she be graceful and articulate?
And if she had displayed annoyance with his question, why couldn't it be defined as "passionate or intense" instead of anger?
Because she has the language to express it...a lot of times the average person doesn't.
underablackgaze You have a good point. The problem is we are often programmed to shut down or retaliate when being spoken to in such a manner. It becomes a shouting match until one person decides to diffuse the situation. There is nothing wrong with passion or healthy anger. As long as it is kept in check.
3:16 Why is no one talking about this metaphor: "The glove has to be pulled inside out." It's just beautiful. A glove pulled inside out can still function and be worn despite everything being the opposite of what a regular glove is. I'm not sure if this is a common saying, but I've never heard it before, and the second she said it I got a vivid image of exactly what she meant. This woman was a gem, rest in power.
I am , but like yourself it’s the first time I heard it & got chills when she said it. I wrote it in my notes & will explore it later . It’s a very powerful metaphor
Yes. I found that quote to be so profound
Even though our ancestors, have built nations just for you so call white ppl=(red). Now that the table has turned. We can also do what you can do, but better... She saysth it in a much nicer way... Da End
Because she’s blowing my mind with every sentence so no quote stood out as more important than another. It is powerful imagery now that you mention it though…
I think she is exploring the resilience factor of the black body in a white world called America by viv
To communicate so eloquently while being so passionate is a gift.
What an intelligent and unapologetically frank woman. It would have been nice to have her around a few more years.
Unless someone gets inspired to pick up the torch and March forward
@@@ebbsgohard well Ms Morrison did and others too - there will always be those who will might take a different turn on the path and then we'll have new perspectives and new energy..etc always moving forward, always have creative souls that have been touched by those who..on and on and on : )
We don't need more racists.
@@humanentity5890
You mean you don't want people like her around who make you "uncomfortable ". She certainly made Charlie uncomfortable.
@@GenXsinglefree oh so you get to decide what I mean huh?
She is now immortal. Rest in Glory, Beloved Sister
@@humanentity5890 You do right by your name. You're definitely poison and definitely derpin
I'll also address what you said:
The beauty of language and the marvel of the written medium is that it allows for the kind of poetry and sometimes, dramaticism, that Bailey employed.
I'd say it wasn't overdone as well as fitting, considering who Bailey is honoring.
Why be so miserable?
nah...she will be forgotten in less than a decade....most of her people dont even read books...she is nothing but a racist misandrist liar. Good riddance.
@@Astrochronic You will not even be remembered by your own family. Toni Morrison is a legend and the fact that you dishonoured her means you live in regret and will probably not amount to much.
@@tonimorrison6326 im just honest, unlike you and your false idol. Its obvious that she is nothing but a lying bigot...
Much respect to our Goddess. We will never forget you.
I can listen to her for hours. Her conversation skills and intelligence is magnetic.
She and Malcolm X are music to my ears!
Her eyes are sparkling with intelligence. What a beautiful soul.
When she said you can tell when a black author is writing for the "white gaze" because they explain things that didnt need to be explained.
I feel the same way when watching some movies nowadays. Her target audience will understand without a problem. Some ppl just like to be included in everything
ua-cam.com/video/bF_R9hJqTTU/v-deo.html
That's racist in itself!!!
But this is a necessary process. We seek equality but refuse to share our experience? Compassion is born from understanding. I'm not saying not all non-white writers should do this but we can't fault it either. It depends on the writer's intention.
@Joshua what do you mean we refuse to share our experience? Most of pop culture in America literally IS Black culture or heavily influenced by it. All black people do is share our experiences. Anyways the BEST parts of black stories and culture are the genuine parts that happen amongst ourselves. At least I think so.
@@mikkelhoejen you're ignorant paragraphs proved Ms. Morrisons point. Maybe get therapy if your feeling are hurt.
That was the gentlest slap a man ever received
Sometimes people, particularly rude men need a hard stinging slap.
@@corazoncubano5372 gentleness is a much more noble teacher in the long run than harshness.
The rod is for the fools back, but a gentle response makes the unlearned wise
She gave it to him with a smile...LOL
Here's a truthful slap for the black>
Sullen faced black woman maybe should get a Bible and read Genesis 9:24 to try understand why they are cursed in all spects of their lives and mostly fit fo rnothing better than slavery:
9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Canaan is the father of the black africans.
@@rosewhite--- damn...get help
Ugh I love her. She eloquently and lovingly told him his question was insulting. I wish I had this much power on a daily basis. Wow. I’m in awe. Rest in Power :(
@SidneeSpeaks, You do have that much "POWER", you only need to CULTIVATE it and don't allow yourself to be connected to (sympathy) those about whom you speak an unflattering and disfavorable truth (or at least the truth as you understand it). That was what Toni Morrison was about, telling the truth AS SHE SAW IT, WITHOUT ANY EUPHEMISMS OR MINCING OF WORDS, IF SOMEONE'S FEELINGS GOT HURT OR BRUISED,.... OH WELL.
@@paulturnet4572 I think the power is doing it with her regal eloquence and grace.
@Grace, Grit and Glory, yeah, and plenty of that too,... BE WELL !!! 😉
You can learn to calmly and peaceably speak your truth and the facts. Also know, not everything requires a response.
You can do it sister😊
“It’s not a literary question… it has nothing to do with the literary imagination. It’s a sociological question, that shouldn’t be put to me.” 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I love the way she expresses herself. she's calm and really takes the time to question not only the question but also her reaction to it. She confronts what could be her own biases at the same time, and by the end of it I think no matter where you stand on the validity of the question you truely grasp her perception and reaction to it.
I am in absolute Agreement.
Wow. She is so wise, so humble, so willing and so patient...it's not a literary question!! I'm surprised she doesn't just laugh at him..
Madeline, laughing will be missing an opportunity to school him. she was asked the exact same question by 4 white women journalists , its on youtube.
@@PHlophe
That's kind of true, but why is their education always our responsibility.
Sometimes schooling them is the creation of a better environment for ourselves and so is fostering the highest level of authenticity in ourselves as well.
If a stupid question brings out genuine laughter in us us than so be it. If a stupid question brings about a serious and thoughtful response than so be it.
We don't need to be jerks, but if White people want to be respectful and and sincerely want to learn how to interact with non White people, it's ok for them to experience discomfort from time to time. That discomfort shouldn't come from our bad behavior, but their unconscious racism and biases coming up and out, Insha'llah.
@@dustinsaidtoney2547this is 100% true, we shouldn't bear the burden of having to explain our existence to caucasian. it is exhausting and has real life consequences.i know a thing or 2 about this from a very uncommon perspective.
@A M you're an idiot, a colossal idiot ;)
@A M still a colossal lemon 😉
I felt profoundly sad when she said: As though our lives have no meanings and no depth without the "white gaze". Why should we need the validation of white people in anything that we do?
You don't.
Never.
You don’t
@Tat Bas Right, not when we're still being killed off by the police and still being terrorized.
@@marymcdaniel8999 And definitely not as long the participants in lynching still get to walk free.
”Aren't you imposing too much into the question? ” He was rejecting her answer because Toni’s response was far too intelligent for him to conceive.
this 👏
No, it's because he is a white guy who thinks the same. Therefore he could only view the question through a white perspective, and not a human perspective that is Toni in her humanity AND in her blackness.
That is why white interviewers were always terrible at interviewing her & other black people...Terry Gross' interview was similiarly tone deaf. Yet they're the BEST interviewers out there--but only when it comes to white people. Funny, huh?
abso-fucking-lutely.
even after he asked her to help him understand he continued to be perplexed.
i think he had nowhere to go but to be perplexed to disrupt the unavoidable guilt.
@@jacquieaquines1689You nailed it
This is like asking John Coltrane, “when are you going to write music like The Beatles?”
He could answer 'never'. Then we would learn something.
Bam!!!
Wow! So true! I laughed so hard when I read it!
Who were trying to write music like Little Richard and Chuck Berry?
@James Quinlan Fools have limited comprehension and development. I know u already know that but I just had 2 respond lol.😅
The best, most direct part of Ms. Morrison's answer begins at 4:02.
She did not overreact. The question was asked by a journalist who was/is annoyed with the success of work that is not written about him, his thoughts, feelings and/or concerns.
Those works made him uncomfortable, because in his imagination he HAD to see them as Black, and that made them more real, more human, more relatable.
Probably taxed his imagination too much to do such a thing.
What you say is more than I know.
@@1MarkKeller which ironically she talks about in a sense when she speaks about chinua. She didn’t understand the african experience but she immersed herself in it and was okay with it. She also alluded to being comfortable with stepping into other people’s worlds and experiencing them for what they are, no matter the walk of life from which they stem from. Something that i think the person who formulated the question, cannot fathom.
@@kavuela4422 Assuredly so.
Nobody likes to feel "left out" - especially the ones who are used to being the ones doing the leaving-out.
Charlie is out of his league here... 🤦🏽♂️
That question is sociological, not literary... 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
“...as though our lives have no meaning without the white gaze.”
*🎤 dropped*
Out of his league? THey are both discussing fiction...
@@JoseAngelHernandez-PhD In this clip they are not talking about fiction. The conversation began when Charlie Rose asked her a question posed by another journalist and she found the question illegitimate, usually because it is not a question posed to white writers and that there was an inherent assumption in that question that her work is only legitimate especially when viewed by white audience.
TheVuduYuDu 🎤 dropped again . 🎓
Too much for his brain...
So far out of his league ..,,
"The glove has to be pulled inside-out." She does so in this clip and then lightly slaps him in the face with it. Goddess bless you, Toni.
His final remark, and continuing to insinuate that his question was insignificant, is so indicative of the power dynamics of "micro"-aggressions, how it's only "micro" for the perpetrator, and how it lands in a complex inner world for the receiver.
Yes, many are very fragile
Best explanation of micro agressions I've heard
Wow! So true and beautifully written.
That bothered me so much too... Her wisdom is lost on his fragile ego
Basically the superior, straight old white guy was gaslighting her, formally.
I wish there was a channel that compiled all the gaslighting that superior white men have done on ALL their dark-skinned victims (this specific one, for now) in modern history to the current era. Could be in tier lists and collected in specific folders so all the world can binge and just play it in the background in public spaces for everyone to hear, including the oppressor species. They deserve it. They cannot use their 🧻-victim card on this one. Remind them of their sins, everyone. But not in a whiny way, just like this Legendary Woman Ms.Toni Morrison here.
You can never come into anyone’s creative space and tell them what is acceptable or what should make them comfortable .
Did he say that anything was unacceptable?
it was a question not a command
Toni gently puts him in his place. Delicate sledgehammer.
Iron hand in a velvet glove
U
YES delicate sledgehammer
She is absolutely wrong and in need of a comparative lit course. Joyce and Tolstoy did not write about race as a focus or burden, or the practice of racism. I’ve enjoyed a half dozen of her novels through the years, but they are totally focused upon the personal experiences of black persons enduring some type of racial injustice, either on a personal level or inter-generational, systemic level. She is hung up on the topic, her life defined by it...a real pain in the ass to have around at a backyard barbecue.
COOL !!! PROFOUND COMMENT !!!
I LOVE IT !!! THANK YOU MUCH !!!
hasslfoot Morrison first is comparing herself to two titans of literature. Conceited? Secondly, they spoke/wrote with characters battling class differences and economic hardships. Morrison, by contrast, has made skin color the defining character of her novels, and her life. It is the forever struggle, the eternal chip on her shoulder. More than a human, a woman, American, author, mother, sister, or daughter, she professes her race. Proudly obsessed.
It's such a disingenuous, condescending and demeaning question, especially when any author -- but especially a master of the craft like Toni Morrison -- is writing about a subject or from a perspective that purposely and systematically has not been given its due.
What this question is really saying is, "It's nice that you've written a book or two that centers your race/gender/culture/identity/experience that has been purposely villified, marginalized, and ignored for centuries, but now that we've let you have your fun, we need you to turn your attention back to your oppressors. Really, you owe us that much for letting you play in our sandbox, don't you think?"
Of course, the brilliant Toni Morrison saw through all that.
You say more than I know.
🎯💯👏
That was an excellent explanation of that question....
Yes! This!!!
@@zapazap Bryan, you have wrote that same quote more than once here. You clearly don't know much, you fawning virtue signaller.
I love her spirit. I could sit and listen to her speak on life itself and her experiences for hours.
Eloquence and Power.
Exactly why they had to do everything possible to prevent us from learning to read.
What is your opinion of William Ellison?
yes
@@PamelaTaylor Do you understand English? What is your opinion of William Ellison?
do you understand creole loving if not, don't be such a smart butt
An iconic wordsmith and thinker. Her knowledge of literature and writers from all walks of life is something to be admired. Rest in peace Toni Morrison. To a life well done!
Yes indeed very well put.
ua-cam.com/video/bF_R9hJqTTU/v-deo.html
I think we just watched her help Charlie Rose grow...and I believe that he saw and accepted the growth. We need more of this...honest questions...honest answers... and honest listening...leading to growth.
I’ve watched this video countless times, and it never fails to move me. I can’t chose what I love most: the truth of what she says, the eloquence of how she says it, or the soulful expressions on her face. I’m grieved and angry that I live in a state that wants to ban her books from high school curriculum. How moronic! Toni Morrison always and forever!
"Anything can happen in art, there are no boundaries there"... Go and Rest, and Beloved you'll always be.
It makes me think of when James Baldwin followed up "Go Tell It On The Mountain" with "Giovanni's Room". No one wanted to publish it. He was told that this book would end his career. Why? Because it had all white characters, living in Europe, and even openly gay (shocking at that time). Baldwin, after "Mountain," was supposed to be the writer of the black, urban American experience. How dare he stray from that? Morrison, like Baldwin, is simply insisting on being an artist on her own terms, regardless of the white literary world's expectations.
Amazing point, thank you!
Giovanni's Room is a beautiful book.
@@sunnys1n9h So beautiful.
@@PolishViking this is such a 100% example of white privilege doubled down, first asked and then not respecting her own personal intelligent response.
@@sunnys1n9h one of my top ten. It shook me up when I was 20.
"The glove has to be pulled inside out." pristine, off the cuff poetry in the midst of a flawless argument.
This sister came through with an answer that left this man speechless 🙌🏽🙏👏👏.
A lioness of the community, unapologetically fierce & completely nurturing.
ua-cam.com/video/bF_R9hJqTTU/v-deo.html
I will adore this genius woman forever. RIH
genius for real
Jesse Aaron Cut the shit you asshole. I’m over here honoring a writing legend and you talking politics?! Get the fuck on with your bullshit, silly boy.
@A M I don't know why you go around spreading hate on ur channel, I've seen your unwarranted hate comments on several vids. I'll pray for you, u obviously need it
@A M The world sucks rn. Message me if u need anything buddy. Hang in there and remember there's ALWAYS gunna be people to try and put u down, u just gotta kill em with kindness as hard as that may be. Much love ❤️
@A M whoosh
How dare Charlie Rose tell Toni Morrison she’s “making too much” of her analysis of the “illegitimate question” she was asked? He isn’t capable of understanding the sophistication of her thought.
She made so many profound statements in her answer that it saddens me that she had to join him in questioning whether she was 'importing too much into the question'. Clearly, she wasn't.
She was. As an elder of society, she could have been calmer and happier and still express that.
@valchis True. "Superior" white_ men/women be *downplaying and gaslighting POCs* for millennia now...and still are today, as _subtly_ exemplified by this other commenter here.
Every black person is told ,yu making too much of it , when something racist happen and there isn't a video
she handled this with the care it warranted, it's not the question by itself, it's the insinuation related to the question also, as if writing about race is somehow a lesser form of public discourse not worth the value as say other literary works, staying silent never changes anything
The implication being that "white" is default...and "talking white" someone stops making it about race (like white people can't have just as diverse of backgrounds as black people, if not more so). Toni answers this question very knowingly: race is an important part of how we experience the world. We may not want to identify primarily by race, but the world around us often tries to do it for us, prejudging the circumstances.
YES
@Perisean Baltimore...or the insinuation that she is incapable, not creative or not a good enough writer, to write about anything else if race is not involved.
@@BE-bk1tb yeah that too, great point
Whenever the question is asked "are you putting too much into...?" That usually means the answer which we are giving is too damn spot on and makes the receiver uncomfortable. That's why it's called TRUTH; And Charlie Rose got it, right here!
omG, THANK YOU!! i started to write this but thought "aww who cares about my opinion" & erased it....but that's EXACTLY what i was saying! first he was urging her to "educate me" -- excuse me, massa charlie, oops, i mean mr. charlie -- but it was YOUR ppl that created such racist & ignorant undertones & systemic racism as a whole, so how 'bout you educate yourSELF -- or ask YOUR ancestors to educate you. Black ppl don't now owe you that too. then @2:05, he's (like u said) accusing her of "don't you think you're importing too much into the question?....i think so..." & clearly he was uncomfortable w/ her answer, as evidenced when she then CHALLENGED him, asking "well, what else could it mean?? what DOES that question mean, charlie...YOU tell me..." at which point he started fumblng over his words, scrambling for an "out" by saying "well i didn't ask the question" -- ahh, so u didn't ask the question, & can't imagine what a question like that could possibly mean, yet somehow u knew for certain that she was "importing too much" into it?? #Checkmate. ~ b.
I really wish modern interviews would follow this format and actually let the guests talk and have a proper conversation. so refreshing to see
What a phenomenally graceful, *patient* & beautiful woman. God rest her soul ✨
There has never been anyone quite as eloquent and intelligent and articulate as Toni Morrison. She is a true genius! Listening to her speak is such an amazing thing.
Malcolm X. And he'd battled the best. None could break him during debates
She's being so nice to this idiot. Love the grey locks.
They are Gorgeous
we are all trained to be extra nice when we are about to say something very serious. this is something i have noticed on every minority including myself. because we know the racist interlocutor is always trying to escape.
Beautiful dreads 🔥
I think Charlie was giving Ms. Morrison the opportunity to more fully explain her feelings about the question. The question had been posed by another journalist originally. Not Charlie.
@@helenbobo1948 Charlie's reiteration of the question was lost on most here who seek opportunities to feel that whites are put in their place. A simple and obvious question here is made into daggers Charlie somehow deserved according to many of these comments. A simple "no" would have been an honest answer to an honest question. Charlie was right. Her answer was ignoble.
Two amazing people with an illuminating exchange. Great interview, grateful to have come across this.
The spirit of a mentor. Incredible patience, thorough explanation, admirable confidence paired with appropriate humility.
We are the only race where such questions are asked! It is insulting! SIP QueenMother❤️❤️❤️
Evette it starts with hair, then it follows with the dress sense, but before all that we are also coerced into giving our children euro names.this is goes far, veeeery far.
Lechiffresix six day
Well, no, First Nations, Aboriginals of all kinds, as well as African descent peoples. Plus women of all colours were asked those types of questions and still are. 😊
ua-cam.com/video/bF_R9hJqTTU/v-deo.html
I love that Ms. Morrison name dropped Chinua Achebe’s Things Fall Apart. Read The African Trilogy. It will change your life.
Lori Ann White Thanks for reminding me it's about time to read Things Fall Apart again! ❤️
I read it and it didn't change my life at all. Great book though. The only thin that changes your life is you.
True story: my original copy of it *literally* fell apart because I read it repeatedly. One day I opened it up, and all the pages just fell out in one big whoosh, leaving me holding just the empty outside cover of the book.
Printed on the inside spine were the words: "THINGS FALL APART."
Seemed so perfect, somehow. I've never forgotten it.
Manecki Neckbeard Yes. Laughing & Crying at the same time because my own copy is at death’s door.
Lori Ann White
Seeing this video and reading this thread makes me miss books, honestly. I mean *real* books.
The way they feel, the way they smell, their inherent fragility, the way they evolve and change the more they're read, loved, lent, borrowed and reread...the smell of libraries and the brittle, delicate feeling of old pages- I miss it all. I miss what it meant to me as a child: that silent but SO exciting sense of imminent adventure that I got each time I held a new book. And I feel a profound, ineffable sense of loss when I think of the fact that my children will never have the opportunity to experience these things.
I still remember the first time I borrowed my sister's old, much-read and much-loved copy of "Beloved." With all the dog-eared pages, flaking covers and notes scribbled in the margins. When I finished, I closed the book and just sat for a few minutes, feeling chills all over my body. I knew I'd just read something brilliant and remarkable. I felt a sense of literal awe for Ms. Morrison's genius. She made me feel the utter tragedy of American history so powerfully, on such a visceral level, that it almost physically hurt.
Maybe it makes me sound old, but I miss that feeling. Ebooks just don't feel the same to me.
When I heard she had died, I felt such an overwhelming sense of loss. Humanity had lost someone uniquely brilliant. And it makes me a little sad to think that my children will most likely read her words on a sterile tablet screen.
I stumbled on this while browsing. Most arguably incredible, articulate and arresting interview i have listened to in awhile. Charlie Rose was subtle and equally brilliant. Great stuff.
“White gaze” is not something I’ve ever heard of, but it is so brilliant a concept. We learned about male gaze in art history but I never heard “white gaze” before. She is obviously a highly educated woman and I admire how diplomatically she explained this concept after so idiotic a question was asked of her.
Beautiful. If Charlie does not get it, well, thoughts and prayers.
Unfortunately, you all are reading too much into this... Rose isn't the one who posed the question, he only repeated it to know how she felt about being asked the question. smh
Her intellect is so alluring
That was such a graceful, poised, and powerful response. I consumed every word. Thank you for sharing this interview.
I love how calm she is, seeing how frustrated she is over the question. It was insulting.
Thank you Toni , that kind of racial honesty is understandable. Bravo.!
If it were just an incidental question they wouldn’t be so compulsive towards burdening her into having to answer it ALL THE TIME. It’s hard to come across an interview with her (I haven’t so far) in which the question is NOT asked. I mean, at least these interviewers should have cared so much as to do their homework - to pay attention to the answers she’d already given in the earlier interviews. Then to suggest that it’s her problem not theirs is just sanctioned ignorance adding insult to injury.
Thank you for mentioning this. I didn't realize it was a repeated question--though I believe it. What a waste of interviewing time, to ask her that question when the answer is clear. So many other things could be asked.
Oh Toni thanks for schooling Charlie. And in such a intelligent, clear eyed and assertive way.
I'm in AWE of this literary titan!! Her answer was a lecture on it's own!!! R.I.P beloved Ms. Morrison.
As I've gotten older, the physical presence of a person has become less of a barrier to seeing the truth of the individual.
What I mean to say is, this woman is one of the most attractive people I've ever come across. The soul and personality shine through and as a result she becomes even more beautiful than she could ever be either here in this interveiw or that she in her youth could pronounce with her physical charm.
What a woman
hE WOULD HAVE never ASKED Danielle Steel that question.
You are absolutely right about that.
To be fair to the pervy old dude. Charlie Rose was asking her about her reaction to a question that another journalist Bill Moyer asked her previously.
There would have been no need to.
No comparison
@Dream Dream Serene And I do believe he did it to give her a chance to answer it fully.
I love her hair. I love her answer. Brilliant!
Ms. Toni Morrison backhands Charlie's false privilege and entitlement pomposity down so succinctly.
Rest In Power Ms. Toni Morrison!
solemandd67 AGREED
What is your opinion of William Ellison?
solemandd67 false privilege and entitlement pomposity. So true.
@@empoweredwoman1021 Boo Hoo.
Solemandd67 -So eloquently said
This lady has such grace and control.
That was masterful, "you can tell me now or later" but you are gonna get an education today.
Hahahah!
Toni is so kind and patient in this. She is extremely generous and deferential. Her humility shines through. This is powerful.
She was a genius. Rest in Peace and Power!
This is profound. If I could I would triple like this video. I can't understand those who have disliked it.
@Joe Ann you hit the nail on the head
Here's why a lot of foundational black americans dislike Toni Morrison...ua-cam.com/video/S_Th1ReARaI/v-deo.html
The Robert Spot Well, that man is entitled to his opinion, like anyone else... but that’s just about the nicest thing I can say about that (and I did listen to it, in full). It’s also just about the only thing I can say, bc I don’t understand where he’s coming from with much of his accusations, but I would be more than happy to know who these important or foundational black men are, and read/listen to some of their reasoning of why she was upholding white supremacy...
I won’t lie: I haven’t read any of her literature, and as a white man in America, I know that my perspective simply can’t be enough on its own to understand her literature fully, but that’s why I read black authors and listen to black intellectuals, activists, leftists, etc, because to the extent that I can understand and empathize, I want to. I resent white supremacy, though I can’t resent it for the same reasons, and in the same ways that a black brother or sister does, bc my relationship to it, and experience of it, is different in every way to that of any person of color (or so I would imagine). Let me get to my point, though: two of my biggest black heroes are Cornel West, and Angela Davis, and these are people who spent their lives combating white supremacy, and they seem to have a different perspective of Miss Morrison from these folks that allegedly “see through her support of white supremacy”, or however the man in the video put it... See, that’s hard for me, bc nobody is gonna tell me that Angela Davis is the type of black woman to bend the knee to white supremacy, or water shit down to serve a white agenda, or have any kind of hatred or contempt for the black *man,* if anything it’s the exact opposite with her on *ALL* of those accounts, and then some, so when I see someone like Angela Davis speaking so fondly and lovingly of Toni and her work... well, do you understand why it’s a struggle to believe that Angela would say such things about the life and work of someone who upheld white supremacy, or white supremacist propaganda? Honestly, it’s just a very far-fetched thing for me to believe...
*BUT* I’m not saying that the man who made that video is 100% wrong, or that there’s no foundational black men who share his feeling towards Toni Morrison. I’m saying that I see at least some evidence to the contrary, and that I actually would be interested in hearing a substantial and nuanced critique of her work from one or more of these folks which he spoke of.. For me, given voices like Angela Davis, and Cornel West, and Nikki Giovanni, and others, who seem to be diametrically opposed to that narrative, and who have said things of real substance about Toni Morrison, I’m just saying that I need more than just this passionate, and well, seemingly intentionally inflammatory take from a random fellow on UA-cam.. That’s not to put him down, that’s just to say that his voice and the substance of what he was saying about Toni just doesn’t really go up against the substance of what Angela Davis has had to say about Toni.. *But* I’m open to a critique which actually goes deep, speaks with nuance, and supports its claims, if such a thing exists.. but I digress.
I hope you find no anger or malice or contempt in my reply to you, bc I assure you there is none there.. You’re just the messenger, though I assume you agree with what the man is saying. I’m interested to hear from you, if you’d be so good to reply, if you have the time. In the meantime, though, I’m gonna assume that this fellow in the link you posted just has some kind of misunderstanding, rather than an actual substantial critique.. 🏴❤️♾
@@nikolademitri731 Thanks for your reply and I'll make it short. Cornell West and Angela Davis really don't have support from foundational black america. (And it's not just men by the way). As a general rule black folk who are allowed plenty of main stream media attention don't really tell it as it is from the black perspective. People like Professor Black Truth represent more accurately how real black Americans feel. (His channel of over 50K subscribers was shut down just after he posted his video essay on Toni Morrison). I appreciate that you listened to it but if you want more to hear more about foundational black america there is more here....ua-cam.com/video/j5wCMzZKCNk/v-deo.html
Those who thumbed down this video aren’t worthy of your time, trying to figure them out. ATF’s (After Thought Folks).
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for being obedient and uninhibited to speak the wisdom that God has given you. You are very very belived in the community. I have been ROCKED since I watched this video, and I have shared it with family, friends & neighbors. Much live, respect & gratitude.
6:36 - Wow! I never thought about that much before, but I see it.
Oh my god i love this woman
She's very lovable
What is your opinion of William Ellison?
ua-cam.com/video/bF_R9hJqTTU/v-deo.html
Thank you for helping me understand the unimportance of the "white gaze". It changed my life.
ua-cam.com/video/bF_R9hJqTTU/v-deo.html
This woman is so beautiful and elegant RIP QUEEN
A lovely, deep, intense, knowledgeable , skilled and important person to our history.
I can tell by the comments who knows the history of these two. These two have major history together. They were great friends. She actually invited Charlie to her Nobel ceremony while they were at dinner. He tossed her the question to let her run with it as he knew she would. Charlie is her friend. They probably had this conversation a hundred times.
Yeah no, he's not her friend at all. He's just another white racist. As a black person you will have white people you know but over time you will see they are just as racist as anyone else.
Cory Palmer You’re racist.
*Thank you Russel*
@@corypalmer5495 How do you know they do not have a friendship?
@@corypalmer5495 I know her work better than you do. She’s my hero. They are great friends. That’s why she said you can tell me if I’m wrong now or later. They spoke so often.
How many of us have had to have such a conversation with someone who don't want us to see, address, challenge or give voice to what is?
That was very profound. It also meant a lot to hear her talk about finding that freedom in reading African writers.
I’ve never heard of her before this but I love how she answers this. Also her voice is so beautiful I could listen to her for hours.
“She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine; that if they could not see it; they could not have it.” I’ve loved her for years; not just for her writing, but for her. I hold her AS her writing in my heart. She has become her words in me. Charlie Rose seems ignorant to me for different reasons than race; he seems completely humanly oblivious and cavalier in the presence of her mighty mind. What greater accomplishment could there be for any writer than to so absorb their readers through words, words, words that the author becomes dearly loved for having written them? I don’t think of Toni Morrison as an African American or female writer. (I know that’s probably because I’m an OG white man.) I think of her as a literary genius. And that’s it. If I was in Charlie Rose’s chair I would have only been quiet and asked her to “just read, Please. Just read what you’ve written. Let the rest be Silence.” What seems painfully obvious is that Rose never read Beloved. Otherwise he too would be stunned like the rest of us. If he had listened to her read before that interview, if he had read her himself and he still asks such stupid questions then truly his arrogance would have been eclipsing of all suns everywhere. I just can’t believe he truly understood exactly who he was interviewing. I must copy and paste and ask forgiveness for the too long comment to illustrate my point. Her words change me every time. I do love them as her beautiful soul. “She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine. That if they could not see it, they would not have it.
"Here," she said, "in this here place, we flesh; flesh that weeps, laughs; flesh that dances on bare feet in grass. Love it. Love it hard.
Yonder they do not love your flesh. They despise it. They don’t love your eyes; they'd just as soon pick em out. No more do they love the skin on your back. Yonder they flay it. And O my people they do not love your hands. Those they only use, tie, bind, chop off and leave empty. Love your hands! Love them. Raise them up and kiss them. Touch others with them, pat them together, stroke them on your face 'cause they don't love that either. You got to love it, you! And no, they ain't in love with your mouth. Yonder, out there, they will see it broken and break it again. What you say out of it they will not heed. What you scream from it they do not hear. What you put into it to nourish your body they will snatch away and give you leavins instead. No, they don't love your mouth. You got to love it. This is flesh I'm talking about here. Flesh that needs to be loved. Feet that need to rest and to dance; backs that need support; shoulders that need arms, strong arms I'm telling you. And O my people, out yonder, hear me, they do not love your neck unnoosed and straight. So love your neck; put a hand on it, grace it, stroke it and hold it up. And all your inside parts that they'd just as soon slop for hogs, you got to love them. The dark, dark liver--love it, love it, and the beat and beating heart, love that too. More than eyes or feet.More than lungs that have yet to draw free air. More than your life holding womb and your life-giving private parts, hear me now, love your heart. For this is the prize." Saying no more, she stood up then and danced with her twisted hip the rest of what her heart had to say while the others opened heir mouths and gave her the music.”
Toni Morrison, Beloved
I know the breaking of the sacred hoop has come for the white man. I feel it. All white men feel it. If they don’t they’re stupid. The diaspora came for the Jew in the first century. Came for the African starting in the 14th. Came for all indigenous people everywhere along that time too. And now it’s here for us. Ironically, however, I feel the hatred coming from young white women more than I ever have from any person of color. In fact, I’ve never felt any hatred coming from any person of color just because I’m white. That’s just never happens to me. And I grew up in Joplin, Missouri in “East Town” just off what is now called Langston Hughes Boulevard. I’m sorry for all the sins of the white race upon all others. I truly am. But Charlie Rose does not represent me any more than Mr. Farrakhan does. I’m just a reader who loves an author like the sun, like the beautiful ever life-giving sun.
Legitimately overwrought but wonderfully observed.
Oh wow, thanks ...
Disgusting self hatred.
What an idiot I guess chickens do come home to roost 😂😁😮
She is absolutely fantastic. Profound and precise. Beautiful and resonant. He is unworthy of the company, a total tool. Incredible he had a show for so long.
3:43 She made Charlie Rose swallowed his tongue. Her soft spoken voice is so powerful
Such an insightful and eloquent woman, I'd love to hear more from her.
She mentioned the novel 'Things fall apart' by Chinua Achebe. One of my best read.
Same! How about Chimamanda Ngozi Adechie, Bernardine Evaristo, Brian Chikwava, Jamaica Kincaid, Marlon James, Alex Wheatle, all excellent Authors?! 👀📚
Chinua
At 2:11 "What else could it be Charlie?" softly silencing him lmao
This lady is awesome.
Her words are filled with power in a very calm and self-assured way.
Without a doubt Toni Morrison a was beyond brillant intellect. Miss her much love her incrediable books one of a kind. Charlie Rose had the best guests.
Wow. She's so articulate and sophisticated... Amazing calming presence.
Here for Toni Morrison in 2019!!
No Toni, you're not wrong, you write what you feel, that's why we love your literature.❤
8 years later and we all know Charlie Rose doesn’t hold a candle to Ms. Morrison.
My first viewing of an interview with Toni Morrison, this. I love her ~ so accessible in conversation: open, sharing ~ how amazing she is at relating with other people - and this particular interview segment has a lovely open relaxed style. A great combination of interviewer and interviewee, the relating just seems to happen, and Toni Morrison really gets in there, person to person, heart to heart, and encourages you to think, reflect on how we see things, perceptions, in a really progressive way that encourages change in mindset, she's a real treasure.
Oh that we could all relate this way.
I think in modern times we are forced to rush around in life way too fast to think or converse, we aren't evolved to be processing machinery, we have heart, we have soul, and this is what we are built for. 👍
"The glove has to be pulled inside out." I first fell in love since The Bluest Eyes. You inspired me to read and lose myself in this world at a very young age. RIP Ms. Chloe Wofford
I LOVE how she puts it that the African writers were able to "assume the centrality of their identify because they were African."
Ive long believed that one of the greatest ails of American blacks is that we lack a strong centralized identity. Modern black culture is an amalgam of what bits and pieces we have been able to salvage of our indigenous cultures, whats been forced upon us, and that which we've borrowed from surrounding mostly white cultures.
Yet we are the most successful in the Black diaspora
That diversity isn't a problem. It's a strength. There's also no such thing as a white culture. That's a racist concept designed to put black people on the bottom. Thinking that way just reinforces that national stratification and damages the country.
@@jamaalshelton6793 are we, African immigrants in America occupy the highest categories of performance last i checked
@@soulscanner66 i disagree, so if Irish and scottish immagrants come to America and set up towns filled with their own people is that not a white culture? Do people not complain when white people wear traditionally black hairstyles, or play traditionally black music? Are they not borrowing from black culture? Whats the difference?
@@MaxPowers2.0 In America, the idea black and white races was invented to justify keeping blacks as slaves and as an underclass. So calling it white perpetuates that idea. It's racist by definition.
what a great piece of interview. she is amazing and explains very clear, calm and intelligent why this question is wrong in so many ways. and you can see in the interviewers reactions that he realises he was wrong and understands her points and changes his mind. very powerful.
Watching again in 2024. I will never get enough of her. She’s my literary hero. The world will never comprehend the magnitude of losing her as a writer and speaker. RIP Ms Morrison. We miss you 💔
This woman makes the height of self-awareness, look ignorant.
The white gaze
This is the word I've been looking for, especially when you are amazing and articulate. White people looks at you with there gazing eyes. Lol!!
@@fatimajames123 It's a distinctive look. It's like they're instantly feeling overwhelmed, uncomfortable, threatened and skeptical.
Exactly - - the white gaze. Or, I didn't know you could dot-dot-dot well what did you think ???? with a strong return gaze ...
Toni Morrison eloquently destroyed the gaze by spitting knowledge in his ear and eye simultaneously. Let's see him correctly extrapolate- - reiterate --and scrawl..... This powerful interview will live in dude's head foreeeevvvrrrr....
The "white gaze" and the "male gaze" two different concepts with similar intentions. The male gaze revolves around patriarchy and sexism where as the white revlove around whites and racism.
ignorant gaze, transcends skin color...
This woman was brilliant and an excellent writer. God rest her heart and soul.❤️💜
What an incredibly intelligent and gracious human being. Thank you for your incredibly intelligent and truthful answer.
I love how uneasily he backpedals when she puts him on the spot, "well, I didn't ask the question, but"...
right! after accusing her of "importing too much into the question" -- but like you said, YOU didn't ask the question Massa, i mean Mr. Charlie, so how can u accuse her of reading too much into it?? you just tripped yourSELF up. ~ b.