Why BoJack Horseman is the Best Thing That Ever Happened - Part 4
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2021
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Schaff: **Comes out to audience as asexual**
Me, under breath: _"One of us, one of us, gooble gobble gooble gobble..."_
He can join the ace place!
HELP MY!!! My muscles are too big! I am a big tall man and my muscles are even BIGGER! I use them to get views but they HURT so much!!! Because they are heavy. Do you have any advice, dear etha
I thought he came out in the voltron video when he something like "If I watched this show for representation I would've stopped watching when I heard Pidge wasn't Asexual."
_"...we accept him, we accept him..."_
One of us One of us One of us
My only complaint is that I DID feel that Hollyhock's drugging was built up naturally. In the episodes prior to this, you can see Beatrice making her coffee, one episode ends with her rejecting a pizza saying she isn't hungry with a chilling silence right before the credits hit, when HH and Bojack are going to FH's show, she says how she feels bugs crawling underneath her skin, after she gets rejected by the intern she starts flipping through channels all anxious like in a fidgety way and finally Bojack in one moment says that Hollyhock was obsessively counting her teeth in an offhanded remark. Also she literally gets thinner as the season progresses
Yeah James missed the mark on that one. He honestly missed the mark on this whole season, it’s easily one of the best if not the best.
i thought she said she wasn’t hungry because someone called her fat? i haven’t watched the show in a while but that’s my memory of it
@@hanscapon222 beatrice said “no one likes a fatty patty”
Yeah, I feel the clues were there as well. I admit I missed most of them until the reveal, but I think that's intentional - we don't necessarily spot them just as Bojack didn't. He wasn't paying close enough attention to her.
My favourite indication is the change in opening credit sequence. In the episodes after Hollyhock moves in with Bojack, she's eating during the opening sequence, but once Beatrice moves in it changes to Beatrice pouring her coffee while Hollyhock holds her stomach.
@@SliceOfDog thats a actually really cool, i never noticed that one
Hard to believe Sara Lynn died at the end of season 3. She was only a character for half of the show. Feels like much more
She kinda *was* a character for more than 3 seasons, because she's mentioned and shown quite a bit. She had a big effect on the show.
@@m_milos yeah especially the view from halfway down
Yeah, for some reason I thought she lasted until at least season 4 or 5.
What I love about how her death was written was that her last words defined her character while also changing her presence. Another thing that I love is how the writers keep making her a more compelling character despite being dead without retconning her traits in season 1-3
I enjoyed but was frightened by the fact that, at the time, I was find out about addiction.
Not to be THAT person, but there were signs of Hollyhock being hooked on drugs, but it's very subtle.
1.) Bojack mentions she stayed behind one time to "count her teeth", an OCD symptom that correlates with drug usage
2.) Hollyhock organizes all the loose change in the house, another OCD symptom that coincides with drug usage
3.) Hollyhock has other nervous ticks that are displayed throughout the rest of the season.
4.) It is mentioned that Hollyhock lost a lot of weight, not only a sign of the Fat-B-Gone pills, but also of heavy drug usage.
It wasn't out of nowhere, just very well hidden. You definitely notice it the second time watching the show.
Yea, I personally didn’t realize it until she said she wasn’t hungry after bojack offered her food
Yeah, I noticed way more on the second round. The first time I did notice her losing weight, and the saying no to food and I was expecting an ED. Made the drugging _way_ out of left field for me
Prolly should've picked up on this sooner since I have OCD lol. This show is fuckn great...
Plus Mr. Peanut Butter was sniffing near the coffeemaker
I noticed when she was randomly changing channels on the TV
Why "Why BoJack Horseman is the Best Thing That Ever Happened" is the best thing that ever happened.
Why the comment "Why "Why BoJack Horseman is the Best thing that ever happened" is the best thing that ever happened" In the video "Why BoJack Horseman is the Best thing that ever happened" is the Best thing that ever happened.
I second this, it's the best adult animation out there, and I'm glad that almost every character got an appropriate send off.
@@jccanizal6410 why the reply to the comment "why "why bojack horseman is the best thing that ever happened" is the best thing that ever happened" in the video "why bojack horseman is the best thing that ever happened" is the best thing that ever happened
Why "Why "Why BoJack Horseman is the Best Thing That Ever Happened" is the best thing that ever happened" is the best thing that ever happened
@@jccanizal6410 I hate you
The Hollyhock reveal is one of those "it makes sense after its revealed" kind of thing, looking back at the season there's plenty of nods to it. The first episode she's in she eats a lot of food, showcasing her eating habits. In every title sequence, BoJack drinks coffee and goes into a trippy intro thing with all the people spiraling him, and after Beatrice appears every title sequence displays her giving hollyhock coffee. And throughout the season she comments on multiple symptoms (itchy skin, never eating food, only drinking coffee, sorting coins, flipping channels, counting her teeth). The intent with the reveal was that its supposed to be out of left field, to help us empathize with BoJack. The signs were there, we just had no reason to be suspicious.
You also see her losing weight
this made me realize i missed more signs than i thought
I was just about to comment the same thing! I didn't notice the weight loss at first but when you compare her first appearance to her overdose scene she is significantly skinnier.
@@allyson186 even before the overdose scene she's getting skinnier
Plus Mr Peanutbutter sniffs the counter where Beatrice kept the weight loss medicine while searching for her doll in episode 6 of season 4
Jessica Biel actually voiced Jessica Biel, that's why they dig at her so much.
Also, the voice actress for PC hates tongue twisters, that's why they have her do so many to the point its overdone. They are inside jokes within the cast, which is hilarious in my opinion.
Damn PC's voice actor was done dirty
Not sure on source, but I've heard that Jessica Biel actually pushed the writers to make her character a more obnoxious unhinged asshole. If true then the character is just so much more fun and the actor is a bloody champion.
The overdose thing was actually hinted at a lot actually. As mentioned in the video Hollyhock has the occasional moment where she acts off. But right after Beatrice moves in Hollyhock begins to lose weight quite significantly throughout the season and her drinking coffee becomes more frequent each episode.
It really surprised me how they didn’t catch it. I was hoping to see that foreshadowing addressed specifically because of HOW natural it was
I didn't catch it either, good eye
That's what makes this season so rewatchable! I love the foreshadowing you can actually catch on a rewatch
hollyhock is a character that’s really comforting to me as someone struggling with an eating disorder. i can’t remember which episode, i think it was the one where bojack called her a blob, he offers her pizza and she says no where in the next season when bojack suggests they make new memories to cover up the memories of the overdose, hollyhock asks “can they be pizza related memories” which made me so happy to hear that she was comfortable with her appearance and made it out of her eating disorder.
Also in the season 4 intro the kaleidoscope sequence starts when bo j takes a sip of his coffee
episode 1: a child losing her mother emotionally but keeping her physically, resulting in a emotional rift to form in her future relationship with her child
episode 2: haha what shenanigans is tod going to get into today!!!!
It's episodes 2 and 3, but still it's rather funny.
More like
1: haha the dog challenged the woodchuck to a ski race for mayor
2: My uncle died at war, my grandmother was lobotomized, and my mother was traumatized. I gave a man depression by forcing him to break his vow in honor of his late wife
3: haha what shenanigans will Todd get into this time
These are the mood swings this show puts u through😂
Something that was a really smart call back was in Free Churro. Bojack says “And one time she smoked an entire cigarette in one long inhale. Truly a remarkable woman.” In Beatrice’s flashback in Time’s Arrow you see her smoking an entire cigarette in one breath while Bojack chastises her.
44:31 It also seems like BoJack does the same thing in this sequence, don't know if that was done on purpose or not.
Lung cancer speedrun
This is my favorite season of BoJack
Same. The episodes are godly
Same. I love the exploration of family trauma, motherhood and the cycles of abuse. It's something you don't see in media often.
Mine too.
mine too!!!
Same.
Princess Carolyn is a true neutral character who pretty much does whatever her job as an agent/manager requires her to do for her clients. Most examples of her perpetuating corrupt Hollywood systems is purely because her moral code and decisions are usually instinctively to do whatever is takes to succeed in her career.
I searched a lot for PC comments and finally found one.
And I strongly agree that she is True neutral. And well, to be honest so am I. It was very compelling to find my character traits here. Personally I don't think that you definetly should value others unhappines and misfortune more than your well being.
That kind of mentality kills you in places where I live.
Did anyone notice how in “Time’s Arrow” BoJack tells his mother that she is eating ice cream at the Sugarman home, but she has never had ice cream before?
It gets even sadder when you notice that she can't describe the taste. When you watch her face, she seems to know it isn't true. You get the impression that Bojack and Beatrice are both lying to each other, and ironically, it's one of the kindest things she's ever done.
No, she had ice cream in The Old Shugarman Place. Beatrice and Honey are at the party, and you can see Bea happily licking a bar of ice cream, probably for the first and last time in her life.
6:55
@@alexcrazyart6522 bojack said vanilla ice cream not a freeze pop vanilla ice cream Alex can you taste the ice cream but Beatrice can’t because she never had it she had a freeze pop
I can't even find a words to describe this heartbreaking detail of her life
It's not a known fact that she doesn't eat ice cream. Only one scenario where her father told her no. So it's safe to assume that as all rebellious people she went against her father's wishes just like when she left to have a kid with bjs dad
Welcome to the Asexual party Brotha
We have cake, dragons, and garlic bread.
@@nightshade8928 unironically my three favorite things before I knew I was ace.
@@nightshade8928 Don't forget our space aesthetic!
For me its minecraft. Lots, and lots of minecraft.
@@nightshade8928 And *many* Lego sets!
Let me stop you right there fellas because hollyhock's overdose on weightloss pills didn't just came out of nowhere, you can actually see that through out the episodes when she first moves in leading up to her overdose that she was actually getting slimmer to the point which her clothes didn't fit on her properly. It's insanely subtle but it is still there.
Also her constantly flipping through channels, her sorting coins, and Bojack mentioning she’s been counting her teeth, all signs of ocd that can often be linked to drug use
Yeah, Schaff and whomever he's collaborating with don't do a very good job analyzing this show, especially the female characters like PC, Wanda, and Diane, and now Hollyhock I guess. I'm sensing quite a bit of misogynistic bias in Schaff's Bojack analyses 🙄 Shame, I used to like this channel
@@Choshako oh yes obviously left leaning asexual Greek boy is a misogynistic hack, not just a man who can't relate to a woman and is viewing things from his eyes.
@@Choshako He points out the flaws in every character, and the ones he points out in Diane and PC are legit.
@@Choshako I think it’s more like he doesn’t relate to female characters as much and doesn’t pick up on the subtle details of issues women deal with. It’s an issue for sure, he probably should have collaborated with a woman youtuber to cover the bases of understanding ALL the characters better but it’s not like that makes this channel bad.
A lot of Cis men aren’t used to giving the benefit of the doubt that things can actually be made for other people, not just them. I personally think James is a lot farther along than a lot of men and has been noticeably improving himself and the way he looks at things like this.
As someone who dealt with an addict to amphetamines their entire life, hollyhock had a lot of build up. She was counting coins/obsessive, staying up all night, losing dramatic weight throughout numerous episodes and not eating. I think they captured it with subtlety because it wasn’t known to anyone, audience included, that she was being drugged.
I hate how amphetamines completely destroy appetite and on top of that my favorite delicious foods start tasting bland and nasty. Even worse, with only one bite, you feel absurdly full and nauseous like you ate too much, or you can't eat properly because of dry mouth. I take them for ADHD so I'm stuck with drinking nutrition shakes when I actually have the money for them just so I won't lose so much weight. I hate it. I can't even imagine what you went through in terms of dealing with an addict to amphetamines but I hope everything is/ turns out well ❤️
@@Cwoisson it was my dad, he was very functioning and fairly normal to be honest? I never felt too much trauma from the drug itself/his behavior when using. But after years of abusing the drug, he passed away from it.
BoJack actually shows how mental health issues impact a person life, far more realistically than "13 Reasons Why", which overdramatises and romanticises the same topics.
@@LYNN-id9rb speaking as a teenager who suffers with multiple mental issues. It absolutely romanticises it.
@@LYNN-id9rb Speaking as a teenager with mental health issues and friends with mental issues you have no idea what you’re fucking talking about and you’re comment pisses me off
@@LYNN-id9rb yes, let's just ignore the fact that the show tried to make a rapist sympathetic and "troubled."
@@LYNN-id9rb it literally romentacize suicide lol
@@demiliomason1565 And made an anti-rape group the antagonists of a season
I came out to my dad a couple months ago as asexual and he didn't understand it but I think watching Todd discover himself as asexual and seeing the journey he went through helped my dad understand me better. I love my dad with my whole heart but he's not always the most understanding, so seeing him understand me through Todd was amazing.
I'm so happy for you!
Just amazing bro.
"Dad, I'm asexual"
"Shut up Todd"
That arc of the show was a reminder of the exploration I was putting off for years. I knew I fit the description all along, but convinced myself that it wasn't real until it was right there in this really good show.
@@miratarnish6316 Why does everybody have so interesting ace discovery stories?
I just said in Discord "ah yes I am straight I like women esthetically, I just don´t want the "do".
Another guy: That´s ace, not straight.
°_°
The scene where Beatrice's father tells her one day this will all just be a pleasant memory and it cuts to her as an elderly woman on her last days still entirely effected by the trauma of that day
it cuts deep
The greatest thing about the relationship between Todd and Bojack is while Todd has forgiven Bojack, things weren't the same. Beyond season 3, it feels like there was a barrier between them. Todd was always gonna be pleasant to Bojack because Todd is a nice person and they have a history. But Todd now knew not to put Bojack in a place where he can influence his life - therefore drawing a clearer line in their friendship.
They actually remind me a bit of Walter and Jesse's dynamic 😭😭 somewhat superficially
As someone else who’s on the ace spectrum, Todd is just the best representation in the media, and easily my favorite character.
Yeah, I'm glad that we finally have representation. There might be more media out there that does but this is the first time I'm hearing about asexual representation in a show. Plus Todd has always been my favorite character so I was really happy
I was just gonna say the same thing!
I'm not sure I agree with James' take that if Todd has been ace the whole time, it would have been pandering. Showing it accurately and treating it the same way they did in S4, back in S1, would have been fine, IMO.
I'll always remember this as one of the first (maybe the first?) realistic and well-developed representations of asexuality in popular mainstream media, really just made me happy to see and especially on such an awesome character
He is actually the character that made me understand that my lack of sexuality had a name and a community
Another detail from Time's Arrow that I love is the Bojack telling Beatrice that she's eating ice cream. We see throughout the season how Honey and Joseph put on expectations around what she should eat. Honey tells Beatrice that a lemon with sugar is a "healthy girl snack" alternative to freezypops Crackerjack gets to eat. Joseph wants Beatrice to marry Corbin Creamerman to market ice cream but makes it clear he doesn't want her to eat any. Bojack telling Beatrice she's eating vanilla ice cream and she sighs and says "It tastes...delicious" broke my heart.
"Her own demented version of empathy"
What a way to put it
Demempathy
Fun fact: The piano music that played when BoJack opened Hollyhock's letter is the same music that played in S4E10 when her 8 dads told bojack: "You will never see Hollyhock again. Ever."
That is a fun fact!
Why does this show continue to find new ways to hurt me?
HOLY FUCK THAT IS HEAVY
Then it's official what it said then. Wow.
NOOO WAIT THAT'S SO SAD
the jessica biel jokes are funnier when you know she encouraged the writers to go hard on her
the Hollyhock overdose is visually foreshadowed by her weightloss. she's introduced to us chubby, but she's thin by the time of the overdos episode. it's super subtle
And she’s having a cup of coffee in many scenes
@@BoserPSN good catch!
Ever notice when Bojack leaves his mom in the retirement home, he tries his best to make her believe she is in the sugarmill home, and Beatrice almost believes him until he says she is having ice cream, Beatrice never had ice cream and the fantasy gets broken you can even see it her face, when she hesitates before saying how it taste. Masterful writing.
I've actually been thinking of the albino rhino gyno joke recently, and I don't think most people pick up one the fantastic follow-up anti-joke, where he asks for more wine, and instead of calling him a wino, PC just calls him an alcoholic.
“Oh, and you’re also a wine addict!”
The only wino albino rhino gyno that I know lol
There's a reason why they always made fun of Jessica Biel.
Jessica Beil herself didn't want the team to go soft on her.
That’s super cool of her.
Un-Jessica Beilievable! Lol
Honesty, if the producers of Bojack Horseman asked me to voice act a character that gets roasted, I’d do it for free.
They could kill me off as a character and I wouldn’t be mad 😂😂😂
41:05 A couple years ago the Williams Institute conducted a study of the sexual orientations of US adults, and it concluded that roughly 1.8% identified as asexual. It sounds small, but given that the population of the US is roughly 329.5 million people, that means there's about 13 million fellow aces out there just like us. And that's pretty neat.
i think your math might be wrong, if there's 329.5 million people and 1.8% of them are ace, then that means approximately 6 million of them (5.931, to be exact) are ace, not 13.
@@ozhagevermeleh7641 I fucking suck at math so that's absolutely possible.
@@ozhagevermeleh7641 still enough people to invade denmark
Plus, that's just the US adults that identified and knew they were asexual.
It's absolutely possible there are many more who don't even realize it.
@@randomtraveler4149 Like me until I was literally 32 years old, absolutely.
What's so depressing about the "I Will Always Think Of You" duet is that for Honey, she's just singing to herself, no one is at the piano in her time. And for Eddy, it just sounds as if he forgot most of the lyrics to the song, since there is no one to duet with him
There's something my brother noticed when he first watched "Time's Arrow".
Near the end when Bojack asks Beatrice, "Can you taste the ice cream?" She looks away. At that moment the illusion was broken.
She never had ice cream. Not at the lake house at least. Her parents always said it was for boys.
Also a nice little nudge to imply that he still doesn't perfectly understand his mother, and he never will.
@@pissfrog I disagree. The way Bojack says ice cream really makes it sound like she’s FINALLY getting it.
In regards to how Todd and Bojack still do not come back together as friends in this season, I really love the portrayal that you can forgive someone in a healthy manner without needing to include them in your life.
Kinda like resetting to acquaintances in a sense
can we just talk about how terrifying the scene was where bojack threw beatrices “baby” out of the window? it scared me so bad to see her scream and freak out like that.
I find it interesting you say there’s no build up to the reveal Hollyhock was being drugged, because there actually is.
Weight loss, no appetite, constant comments on loving the coffee, Beatrice’s remarks on a girl’s weight, the hints in the intro as we see Bojack act stranger when drinking coffee, Hollyhock’s actions, her occasional mood swings.
Flipping through channels at night after organizing the change she found, counting her teeth, and that comment about bugs under her skin. So many different ways it was foreshadowed...
@@PeterFrikadelle Precisely. There are SO many things. But I think some viewers didn’t realize it cause they just went “she’s a strange teenage girl”.
There’s actually A neat bit of foreshadowing in the intro to hollyhocks overdose. Everytime bojack sips the coffee the psychedelic drug like Visuals start. And when Beatrice joins. She’s always next to the coffee maker. Hinting at both the overdose and the true culprit. It’s one of my favorite uses of foreshadowing in the entire show.
thats not even all. when bojack offers to order a pizza for dinner, hollyhock says shes "not hungry" followed by a good 4 seconds of silence, which is weird since she hadnt eaten anything all day. the chub-b-gone got rid of her appetite. also, you can notice her body start to slim down with each episode shes in. at first her belly is kinda big but then you notice her clothes dont dont fit as tightly as they used to.
and something you'll miss if you always skip the title sequence!
@@matthewmasucci1425 yeah! never noticed that since my rewatch
in episode 8 she also said she feels like she got tiny little bumps crawling around on the inside of her skin
Hollyhock wasnt hooked on drugs, she was being slipped amphetamines, there was loads of evidence it was happening and it was pretty realistically portrayed.
I loved when it showed her sorting coins and Bojack not thinking anything of it. Bojack and the audience don't know that that's super abnormal for her. Maybe she's compulsively organized. But no it's the amphetamines
As each episode goes, you notice that she gets physically thinner, and she sees her clothes getting smaller.
@@andrewduong2740 in 'stupid piece of shit' episode they also give a huge hint. When Mr peanut butter comes to bojack's house after bojack chucked the baby doll, PB he goes straight to the coffee because it smelt funny.
The "it was his mistake" running gag will ALWAYS makes me laugh. Also "Time's Arrow" completely broke me, definitely one of my favorite episodes of television
As an ace myself, Todd’s asexual realization arc was perfect and made me feel so seen. I always got so excited every time they started exploring that aspect of his character cuz he’s the only explicitly asexual character I’ve ever seen. The episodes where he explores his orientation is also some of my comfort media bc it makes me feel so understood and validated. It was beautiful :,) probably gonna go back and rewatch some of those episodes now. It’s good stuff
Also, HELL YEAH!! Schaff is a fellow ace and cartoon enthusiast! A great combo tbh
The point of the breakup with Ralph is that things were going so well. PC broke up with him because he was so good for her, because she could feel herself depending on him, and she couldn't allow herself to do that. It feels out of left field because it is; it's a stupid, self-defeating choice.
id argue tho that he isnt really good for her. when he finds out she miscarried, he makes it ab him, saying stuff like i wish you told me, when in reality miscarriages are incredibly traumatic, and knowing she had 5 doesnt make it better. also the way he completely dismisses pc when she gets upset ab ralphs parents and how they treat her. all in all, i feel like he’s portrayed as a “good” character, but his flaws are more covert
@@l.th0373 while he might not have made absolutely every decision right, he was being reasonable in that episode; firstly, it is also his child, and secondly, I feel like him wanting to know was informed by wanting to be able to support PC through such a traumatic incident- which was the very reason she didn't tell him, because she didn't want to be supported because that would make her feel weak. You're totally off base about his family; he initially was dismissive but by the end of the episode he's fully supportive of her and rejecting their values- values that he probably simply never questioned because they had been ingrained in him since birth. He might not act perfect in every situation but that doesn't make him not good for PC.
@@l.th0373 I agree with this tbh
Especially about his parents. If I remember he does stand up to them but never apologizes to PC for the anti-cat holiday? Could totally be wrong since I haven’t watched the show in a long time but like?? That’s a big deal? That’s like dating someone who has a holiday that they celebrate no question that’s anti-insert whatever uncontrollable aspect of yourself you have.
The miscarriage thing is also a pretty big deal, I think the reason it hit so hard for PC was that he said something like “maybe we should look for other options” regarding having children. And PC took this to mean that she wasn’t good enough or they should just stop trying.
Not meaning to say he’s a bad person or PC isn’t completely flawless just right person, bad time. I feel like if he came around after Ruthie and he didn’t… celebrate a holiday that was anti-cat but either way Judah is better in my opinion. But Ralph is still better than almost all of PC’s other romantic partners except Judah.
joseph, beatrice, bojack and hollyhock all have that diamond mark that hammers the idea of generational trauma
It's a great touch, but Hollyhock doesn't have Sugarman DNA - although wait, didn't Butterscotch tell Beatrice that his mother had a similar mark?? Apparently similarly traumatized people find each other.
@@andrewkohler3707 i think it goes beyond blood its the chain of trauma
@@j.o.g.j And Beatrice's trauma is certainly passed on to Hollyhock.
They also all have the same nervous tic
@@tidepodpadthai2633 what is it can i ask? :0
I love earned happy endings and I always saw this season as Bojack's earned happy endings. Seeing how differently Bojack treats Hollyhock to everyone else he's ever met and knowing that Sarah Lynn's death is a huge catalyst for that is so cinematically pleasing. Best season of the show, imo.
One thing that really destroyed me was bojack mentioning icecream at the end of he's mother's the fantasy because in a earlier episode we see her asking for icecream and her mother saying it was a boy's thing and that she could eat a lemon with sugar instead. I think in the moment bojack saids the "cam you taste the ice cream?" she realized is all fake, but still chooses to believe it. Man that hurt
I recently saw that episode and it really fucked me over. Like that was one of the most haunting episodes I’ve ever seen… I was so shocked I couldn’t even cry, I just stared at the wall replaying everything in my head
Fun fact: when I first watched Beatrice step out of the car as a child surrounded by white, I burst into tears. Nearly all the women on both sides of my family have suffered and eventually died from Alzhiemers. The episode did such an amazing job of showing what a horrifying experience it is. I instantly knew what was going on. Damn that hurt.
God same, my girlfriend introduced me to the show last summer and she had to watch me sob through the whole episode. It was exactly what I saw my great-grandma going through when I was a kid
Why's this a "fun" fact?
@@Sui_Generis0 Because sarcasm.
Everyone when they see Captain Holt on Bojack Hourseman:
"A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one"
Also Rosa is in Season 5!
Me who just did a comment with the same meme: "a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one"
Hourseman
@@Mr_Mimestamp Rosa? As who?!? Can't believe I missed!
Also, RuPaul is in one of the eps with him!
“But I’m tired of squinting.”
like … sheesh.
I cried a bit at that part
I like to think that Future Ruthie can still happen if Baby Porcupine Ruthie adopts a pink cat.
One thing I will mention about Time's Arrow, is how the ending ties into Free Churro; remember how Bojack said that his mother never showed him any kindness, any sign of empathy? Well, in Time's Arrow, when Bojack mentions the ice cream, Beatrice can't imagine it because she was never allowed to eat ice cream as a child; many people theorize that Beatrice's change in expression when she says that the ice cream tastes delicious, means that the illusion was shattered. But instead of letting Bojack know this, she pretends like it worked, so Bojack can leave in the belief that he helped her in some way. While Bojack never knew, this was Beatrice's one act of kindness towards him, and it speaks volumes that she could only give it to him when she knew he would never learn about it.
But for that theory to work she would have to be in a state where she remembers Bojack but doesn't remember what ice cream tastes like. I'm sure she's had ice cream since having Bojack, so that doesn't make a lot of sense... But I see what you're getting at, and it would be cool, but bittersweet to have that theory track.
@@IOrganiseContentUK She DID remember Bojack at that moment though; that's how the whole scene started. And if we say that Beatrice at some point had ice cream, and she succesfully remembers the taste, what else would Bojack asking his mom if she can taste the the ice cream, followed by her letting out a sigh of frustration or defeat, before stating that it's delicious, supposed to mean?
@@IOrganiseContentUK she never had ice cream as far as we know, only sugar with lemon
she’s had a freezy-pop once :/ but that’s not ice cream sadly
Old comment but, she did have icecream once. When her mother took her out to the soldiers dance. It was a creamcicle, but icecream still.
You missed the fact that Beatrice never had ice cream despite her upbringing. Only sugared lemons because she would get fat, reinforcing her actions on hollyhock. So when Bojack is telling her that she is having ice cream at the end of the episode as she recognizes him, you can see her realize it’s all a lie.
Hollyhock’s OD is actually built up terribly well. You just have to pay attention. She mentions a few times she’s not hungry, she just wants coffee, her clothes fall off of her, and a very important note-BJ says, “she’s at home counting her teeth in front of the mirror. You know, normal teenage girl stuff.” The stuff Beatrice gives her is basically speed. It doesn’t come out of nowhere. You just have to know the signs of drug use/abuse.
These things just keep getting longer and better. Can’t wait for “Why Bojack Horseman is the best thing that ever happened - Part 6 - The Movie”.
Edit: I called it. God bless you Schaff and everything you do.
That would also make sense, considering season 6 is the longest season of the show.
It's almost 2 hours long, you nailed it!
Props to Johnny 2 Cellos for pointing this out in his analysis of the show's opening theme, but you can see Beatrice giving Hollyhock coffee every time they're shown in the background together.
Also, might be a bit overlooking this, but Bojack does drink coffee which leads to the trippy part of the intro sequence, with him looking a little disoriented.
Genius.
Oh
Also Hollyhock visibly loses weight and you can also see her developing some weird ticks (always itching herself, just randomly counting coins, lighting matches, etc.)
“I didn’t know I wanted that sort of representation until I actually got it.”
*As a lesbian, I understand this statement to my soul.*
what representation r u talking about it i want it too 😭
As someone who's still waiting for my own representation (Nonbinary and Bisexual) I hope mine will be as good as this
@@tidepodpadthai2633 I’m non-binary and bi too. I love the shreds of representation that we get.
@@tidepodpadthai2633 lake from infinity train is trans coded and the creator said lake was supposed to be officially non-binary, but the network wouldn’t allow them. also, rocko’s modern life: static cling has a trans woman on screen and her transition plays a large part in the story!
@@mewow3556 (copy pasting and replying so you can see) lake from infinity train is trans coded and the creator said lake was supposed to be officially non-binary, but the network wouldn’t allow them. also, rocko’s modern life: static cling has a trans woman on screen and her transition plays a large part in the story!
God Todd's arc still makes me cry, it was the first time I'd ever heard asexual in anything resembling a positive light, the only thing I'd heard of it before was a friend of a friend calling it being soulless and the general internet saying it was just attention seeking and like fuck man, it made me feel like I wasn't broken
Yes this, and yeah it did make me cry!
There is still plenty of denial of our experience on the internet and among uninformed and old fashioned people, but when we are addressed realistically and positively, it feels absolutely amazing.
"Our relationship is like a Magic poster. If you squint your eyes just right, it's the most perfect and beautiful thing ever."
"Yeah, I know what you mean."
"But-" *on the verge of tears* "-I am **SO** tired of squinting..." *bursts into tears*
A funny thing about the gun control thing is that it's actually based in reality. Once the black panthers party starting publicly holding guns, it scared the right wing so much that left-wing black people could use guns so they actually ended up voting in favour of gun control.
This is basically what happens with women replacing black people.
(In reference to 17:29)
It is also the only time in the NRAs history they have ever been for gun control
I think any well-to-do citizen without a history of crime or debilitating mental illness should have the capability to buy arms and munitions. That being said, it cannot be understated how much we need a greater effort towards firearm regulation. (Not control, but regulation)
Yeah, here in California we have supper strict Gun-Control laws. You know who implemented those laws back in the 60's??
Ronald _Fucking_ Reagan.... The governor of California. Congrats, right-wingers!
@@BroAnarchy lol meanwhile every other blue state basically functions the same. Not a fan of Reagan just saying
@@BroAnarchy Reagan would’ve been a democrat in any other time period than the 80’s and 2020’s
Oh boy, Mr. Schaff gets to talk about our favorite depressed horse-man again!
@J Dude Dude. Stop spamming.
My favorite thing about the barn performance of “I Will Always Think of You” is how, in Beatrice’s world, Honey begins singing randomly. She wasn’t singing to music until the band joined her.
I knew about generational trauma before this season, but after this season I *understood* generational trauma. That terrible, perfect episode...life will never be the same after watching it.
Hollyhock's overdose plotline is sprinkled in throughout the season, and it starts being a chubby teenage girl with low self-esteem who risked everything to find her biological parents by going to LA, a city known for being all about "the look". We see her worried about whether or not she's pretty enough to be attractive to date, she gets self-conscious during Bojack's stint on Booty Academy, etc. It's not that she's hooked on drugs - she's being poisoned by Bojack's mother seemingly unbeknownst to her. Not only is it shown to be poisoned coffee, which she drinks a lot in many various shots leading up to the reveal, but you can also see her self-confidence dropping when Beatrice is fully in the picture. The comments, etc. She probably saw all of the effects of the drugged coffee (the weight loss, the high energy, loss of appetite, etc.) as a good thing because of her already low self esteem. What she doesn't realize is that she's now verbally expressing these thoughts in the episodes leading up to it, she's more nervous, emotional, etc. She doesn't know anything is wrong - and it's possible that she didn't even know how bad it was even when she was passing out on the ground. Hollyhock is sick.
I think it's supposed to smack you out of nowhere, just like eating disorders (and you can even argue drug problems) in real life. You as the sufferer, don't know things are bad until you are death's door and sometimes you don't even realize it then. The people around you don't realize it until something like what happened to Hollyhock happens. Hell, lots of people with eating disorders get compliments when they lose a lot of weight. You can apply that "out of nowhere" thing to anything: depression, eating disorders, drug addiction, alcoholism. Bojack didn't notice it because he was too self absorbed dealing with his own problems to see it. Hollyhock was sick. Beatrice was perpetrating the crime. Nobody else saw her every day like those three did. If her other fathers were in the picture, they would have absolutely noticed. We didn't notice it because we're getting to know Hollyhock with her introduction to the season.
Calling it too rushed, in my humble opinion, really undermines the message it was going for: that this can and does happen with many different mental illnesses. And you can and will miss the signs in a lot of people in your life, even if they LIVE with you. Hollyhock is lucky and survived, later recovering. There are many who aren't.
princess carolyn broke up with ralph because staying with him and trying "other options" would require her to admit to herself that she needs help. her whole thing is that she does everything on her own & that causes her to push away anyone who tries to help lighten the load. she needs people to see her as someone capable, someone who has her shit together; she'd rather break up with ralph than break that facade. also it's pretty disappointing that it takes ralph so long to call out his family and that he even tries to brush off their behavior in the first place
Honestly it’s really neat to see a show like Bojack acknowledge asexuality like it does. In any other show I feel like it would be played more for jokes but the fact they treat it as maturely as anything else in the show is really appreciated.
The ruthie episode reminds me of the Robin episode of How I Met your Mother when she also couldn't have a baby, and also made up her future children the same way
Yeah, it's still a great episode, but it didn't have maximum impact for me because I could see the twist coming thanks to HIMYM.
In order to get my boyfriend to watch bojack we struck a deal. I would sit with him and present him three episodes of my choosing. First i showed him Ruthie. Then The Old Sugarman Place. And last Times Arrow. Hes working his way through season two as we speak. Pray for him hes about to hit episode 11
Oh God no...
I wish him luck
Mad respect.
I wonder how he'll react when he reaches the view from halfway down, that episode gave me an existensial crisis and i loved it
@@clipboard. I actually thought about showing him that one as opposed to Ruthie. Im glad i didnt but i really debated it lol
Honestly I think Princess Carolyn breaking up with Ralph after the miscarriage makes sense, and was a brilliant setup for the rest of her character arc. We see in the final seasons that she, like Bojack and Diane, struggles with trusting happiness. She's scared of needing people and doesn't like to be the one being taken care of.
Cue season 4, where she's the happiest she's been throughout the whole show so far. Her and Ralph are better than ever after the trip to his family's home, they're going to have a baby, and her career is on the up and up. But then the events of Ruthie happen, and one by one we see PC's life completely fall apart, to the point where the only thing she has left is Ralph.
If it were anyone else in PC's position, they would cling to Ralph, letting him support them through this tough time. But PC resents the very idea of it, instead preferring to push herself through it. And then the second some tension with Ralph comes up, she self sabotages and breaks up with him. I think in her current state she foresees a break up with him coming, and this is her way of taking control of her life again, as everything else that happened that day felt like it was out of her hands. Without Ralph, she has no choice but to support herself and triumph from this whole situation.
Of course she does this while drunk, and afterwards falls into a Bojack/Diane-style depression fuelled binge fest. It's only because of Todd rallying the dentist clowns that she's able to pull through and start to get her life back on track, and it's also here after she's essentially forced to that she starts accepting help from other people. And it's doing this that sets her on the path to adopting Ruthie (Todd and bojack both encourage her to look at adoption).
So yeah, I think they actually handled her character really well here. It gave us a good insight into her character, really kicked off her arc, and also showed us that she can be just as prone to self sabotage as other members of the main cast.
I guess it shows massive character growth then that she ends up married to The World's Most Helpful Man.
The most haunting line in my opinion is "Promise me you won't love someone as much as I loved Crackerjack?" A line that must have stuck with Beatrice for the rest of her life. She saw first hand how grief and connection to one's child can be devastating, it almost killed her and her mother and resulted in her mother being lobotomized.
It makes perfect sense why she was so cold and distant from her son. She saw what love between mother and child can do, it took her mother away from her. It destroyed Honey. And she begged Beatrice to not turn out the same as she did.
I strongly disagree with Hollyhock’s overdose “coming out of nowhere”. Throughout the season there’s signs showing she’s going to overdose. She gets progressively thinner as the season goes on. She consistently is seen flipping channels. she sorted coins and bojack mentions how she’s been counting her teeth. The signs were there they were just hard to realize, which was on purpose to empathize with Bojack not seeing the signs. I personally didn’t realize it until she said she wasn’t hungry after Bojack offered her food, and the pause of silence into credits. None of the signs were shown until after she starts drinking Beatrice’s coffee, which is kind of early on hinted to be drugged with Mr Peanutbutter sniffing near it. Sorry for just rambling and hopefully this makes some sense
Oh the Mr PB thing is so cool nobody's mentioned that before! I'll have to look for it when i watch it next
I actually teared up saying you were on the ace spectrum. Going so long without being able to name one other person like me and then to have my favorite UA-camr come out as ace? It’s really amazing. Just thanks for being awesome.
As a fellow ace, it’s definitely an amazing feeling
Awww that's so great! I'm not ace nor arro but I feel really happy for you 💝
@@victoriabelatti7141 it’s great to see when there’s supportive people, thank you
@@supercamborg4218 anytime!
Pog
Todd as an asexual is really good because he was a character first, they never introduced him as "the asexual friend". He was a fully loved character way before we know about his orientation and that's exactly how all characters should be, because in reality your orientation is just a part of your personality, not your only trait.
Also, Ruthy is one of the toughest episodes I've seen ever, is devastating.
I really love how these videos try to kind of model the humor in the show by including foreshadowing jokes, it’s a nice detail that I appreciate about this series.
Schaffrillas: *is on the ace spectrum*
Me: *happy ace noises*
i didn't really care much about pc's silly tongue twisters until i cried my eyes out when she bonded with ruthie over them...such a wholesome and beautiful moment
Same
I just love, how in the Todd episode Todd becomes a model and his clothes become the new styyle. As the season goes on you can see his red sweater in shops in the background qnd more and more people start to wear them too. Such a clever visual joke
Ace gang is having a huge party here, let’s gooo
The “I will always think of you,” scene is one of my favorites of the whole show! I love it so much that I have listened to that song many times on its own. This season is probably my favorite!
Season 4 might be my favorite season in terms of comedy. It’s fucking hilarious
doesn't pull any punches either, the gyno rhino says to PC "you'll get over this, you're a strong, well-rounded women.. except for your uterus"
Todd is honestly my favorite example of ace rep in media because he's so out of the norm for the kind of characters who get coded as ace or stated as ace. He's a robot, or an alien, or some other form of nonhuman who has a lack of sexual desire written in to their character. Todd is human and better yet he's not some social pariah or super smart, he's just himself. He honestly feels like the most validating asexual character out there(not that there are a lot of characters to choose from).
He is a good honest guy with a lot of self expression and fun to him, though a lot of ace reps/headcanons do still share this sense of "adult childishness" and not being taken seriously as a mature person, as if we just never grew up or something, Spongebob and Peridot being other examples.
But Todd still balances it out by actually getting taken really seriously during the arc, the show knew jokes about it and criticism would be out of place.
im not ace but im aro, i only figured it out recently, but he's just so refereshing to see
@@xxscribbledragonxx9744 So is Todd! ^^
im so glad you pointed out that season 4 feels like another season 1; the start of a new chapter basically.
Schaff, give us part 5, or we are gonna hire character actress Margo Martindale. Your choice
Tbh I feel like it was a good thing that they would eventually stop focusing on Todd's sexuality to express that even though it's a part of him, he's more than that, and there's still more in his life to happen or be fleshed out.
Especially his family life man, which I wish we got more of.
I really liked that too, as someone who’s gone through similar. He accepted it as a part of himself and moved forward with his life, with that being an aspect of his struggles but not his defining trait. Felt normal
Tod was the fist ace character I ever seen, I don’t even like tod that much but I like the representation being acearo myself
How can you not like Todd?
Or at least for me, the first ace character who is explicitly stated as such, and isn't treated as weird because of it
To start off I’m not ace. Toad was the first ace character I seen too. His story line opened my eyes to something I never really knew about cos being ace isn’t really in anything. And shortly after I found one of my best friends is ace.
How about pokemons ace trainers?
He is still one of the only ace characters I can think of from a popular show, he is like the shining example of representation for us
Hit the nail on the head by saying S4 is a great epilogue to the previous 2 seasons and a great prologue to the next 2. It feels like a really top notch transition season that fills us in on important character details and motivations while still being good TV in its own right, but is slightly divorced from the greater story. Excellent bit of analysis there.
Time's arrow is a fucking masterpiece.
That being said, stupid piece of sh*t is something that spoke to me as someone who experiences overwhelming anxiety. It didn't just connect to my life, it paralleled it. When I went into the episode and saw the title, I expected something more stupid and silly. But nah, that episode was the most relatable of the show for me. Constant debates with myself in my head, always finding a way to negatively frame myself, it really made those issues clear. Season 5 and Diane's feelings of loss during breakup was also something I found super, super relatable. It hit so hard. "You realize he'll never hold you like that again."
This show is incredible and it was so much more than I ever expected it to be.
As someone who's only recently realized he's asexual, it's nice to have something in common with one of the creators I follow. Makes you feel validated, you know?
I know right???? Like it made me so happy when he said he's on the ace spectrum.
It's like you're not alone.
Yeah it's always nice to hear something like that, especially when it's a creator I actively watch. It makes me feel slightly less alone everyone outside of specifically ace spaces. Same for when a creator I watch comes out as nonbinary or I found out they're nb at some point. Makes me feel better for no reason at all.
It feels amazing! I feel real and normal knowing such a great creator is like me!!
I my or may not have cried. Like I literally can’t think of any public figures who are ace. Not one. Until now. I’ve been trying to understand my ace identity for so long, that hearing another person casually mention it is just so… idk it feels different from seeing ace profile pictures and having random people I’ve never heard of say that they’re ace. Honestly, seeing an LGBTQ UA-camr like him is just awesome
@@gentlesandladymen You might wanna check out Overly Sarcastic Productions. Red, the co-host is ace, and the channel just in general is really good.
39:32 I also wanna mention how when Beatrice is listening to Bojack describe the old sugarman place, Beatrice knows he was lying. You can see the hesitancy on her face after Bojack says that she's eating ice cream, mainly because she was never allowed ice cream as a child, but instead a lemon with some sugar to stay thin. Beatrice recognizing that Bojack was about where she is and what she is doing, and then subsequently just going along with it, shows a lot of growth in her. She understands that Bojack and her have endured so much, that it's a waste of energy to point out Bojack's shortcomings, especially when it'll just end up making him upset. It was a really great way to wrap up her character.
But for that theory to work she would have to be in a state where she remembers Bojack but doesn't remember what ice cream tastes like. I'm sure she's had ice cream since having Bojack, so that doesn't make a lot of sense... But I see what you're getting at, and it would be cool, but bittersweet to have that theory track.
you forgot to mention my favourite foreshadow. a while back mr pb mentions that he and Diane were "5 big fights away from a divorce".
although i love that many people are pointing out all the ways in which you *can* notice hollyhock being on drugs during the season, i also must say that not bringing attention to it does, in a way, make it more accurate. a lot of people who are on drugs won't show symptoms until its too late, and thus those surrounding them cannot help them - specially when you consider that hollyhock herself doesn't know she's being drugged. the fact that you can see her acting weird, or losing weight excessively, but that no one questions it, is scarily realistic.
The sugar man's place episode hits on another level when you notice that they are singing only half of the song in their respective timelines, that's why everyone is looking weird at them
**Looks at recommended** Oh wow he has a Bojack video? When did that come out?
_Literally 6 minutes ago_
Did you not notice that Hollyhock was losing weight slowly after Beatrice started living in their home? That was the slow subtle buildup.
'i cant believe this country hates women more than it loves guns'
what a line that aged... both extremely well, and extremely poorly, the US now has states with abortion banned or restricted heavily, and still no gun control
I say if a statement stays true as tike goes on, it ages well, even if you hear it and go "oooh" and do that inhale from the sides of your mouth because of events that occurred after the quote was made.
I was just listening to sad quotes on the BoJack series slapped into a LoFi, you know the series is good when people start to lofi it
I heard some of those in Lofi too
Sauce?
@J Dude like one comment said in that video, id prefer it to be rick and roll than that
@@asharmstrong248 just search bojack lofi
@@esteemedcharacteractressma58 OH MY GOD IS THAT ESTEEMED CHARACTER ACTRESS MARGO MARTINDALE
WHERE MY FELLOW ACES AT
WE MUST GIVE A BIG WARM WELCOME TO OUR NEW MEMBER
🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰
Nah, he isn't a new member, he's *always* been a member.
Either way, give him some cake.
Yo
Not ace, but as a bi man happy all the same for you all. Seems aces get left out of the lgbtq spectrum quite a bit sadly and always happy to see them out there being happy and supporting each other
I’m gray ace 😅
LET'S GIVE OUR FAVORITE CRAB MAN SOME CAKE
An unusual detail of Beatrice's life was that after talking to the man (goat) she was supposed to marry, she realized they might have even worked together after some time. Only to throw up on him. That made it extra tragic.
Season 4 is my favourite season of the series.
The Old Sugarman Place, Stupid Piece of Sh*t, and Time's Arrow are all top 10 episode of the series imo.
Diane and Mr. Peanutbutter's downfall as a couple was really gripping, I love Hollyhock as a side character, further explaining Bojack's damage through Butterscotch and Beatrice, and Princess Carolyn's ordeal with trying to become a mother is heartbreaking. 11/10 the Best Thing That Ever Happened
the part about jessica beil is so true, I didn’t even know who she was before watching bojack
Todd is one of the most important characters to me out of any media. He is such a comfort, and for a show to so proudly show someone being comfortable with themselves and their asexual identity and not giving in to the pressures others might place on them... It's nice. The relief he feels at being able to have a word for what he's feeling and experiencing, to proudly call himself an asexual without any doubt anymore... It's nice. And they handled discussing it and relaying information to Todd/the audience so well. And to show a happily married ace couple too? So good.
It means a lot, especially since Todd's asexuality is never made fun of either.
GOSH I love this show.
This was 7 months ago, what?? I swear it was 1 or 2 months ago, we need part 5 soon.
pov schraffilias attempting to write season 5 video
edit: let’s go
Honestly season 3 and 4 are the peaks of the show for me, Time’s Arrow alone is a work of art and That’s Too Much Man might be one of my favorite episodes of TV ever
Time's arrow messed me up the first time I watched it. Genuinely just had to take time off from the show after Season 4 before I couldn't continue to watch because it shook me so much
Have to agree with you, 'Times Arrow' was the first time in years that a piece of media actually drove me to tears