Thank you all for watching and for sharing your experiences with the Muffin Man! I love seeing how much this silly song resonates with people from all around the world. 😄 Don't forget to comment your FAVORITE theory about his origins down below! 👇 ▼ Podcast Links! ▼ » Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jon-solos-messed-up-origins-podcast/id1631064271 » Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0zC1NxCX576HHQUoYCuGDo » Google Podcasts: www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vbWVzc2VkdXBvcmlnaW5z » Amazon Music: music.amazon.com/podcasts/e2ab5016-5166-4670-b0a3-7c6ade06947d/jon-solos-messed-up-origins-podcast » Stitcher: www.stitcher.com/podcast/jon-solos-messed-up-origins-podcast » iHeartRadio: iheart.com/podcast/99117988/
Can you look up Buddha and the history behind his great power. Even in "record of ragnarok" he's depicted as this great being that would even rival Zeus and all the other gods
Your not thinking with enough layers. A hobo selling cheep muffins laced with opium or cocain or heck, tobacco at the theatre. The muffin man was a drug dealer! 😆🤪
Howdy hey! I was on a youtube video watching marathon and I mentioned your messed up origins deal to another youtube vid host and my fellow viewers and I hope those viewers got their theories more corrected; that is what I like about your videos; not a piece of information out of place.
Yessss!!!! On his very first line asking 'Do you know the Muffin Man?' I of course had to respond with 'The Muffin Man!' And did so again and again and again every time he asked... I might have a problem 😢
Drury Lane was never a *really* rough part of London. That honour went to the other side of Covent Garden where you found St Giles' rookery. Drury Lane was an older part of London. The lane itself dated from before Tudor times and was 'famed' for a pub that's now called The White Hart (Henry VIII is recorded as taking one of his doxies there). When the Earl of Bedford, John Russell, was developing Covent Garden to be an upscale gated community for the wannabe posh, Drury Lane was regarded as something of a charming and 'respectable' thoroughfare in the 17th century. By the 18th century, the area had become decidedly lower-rent as fruit sellers moved into Covent Garden and more taverns, brothels and theatres sprung up on Drury Lane and the surrounding streets (think of it as 18th-century Netflix and Chill). But it was by no means a slum - it'd probably be closer to New York's Time Square before it was cleaned up. Prostitution was a major industry in the area - there used to be printed guides informing gentlemen (and ladies) as to where the best brothels were, which courtesans were rated highest by patrons, what their specialities were, how much they cost in addition to listing the actresses who dabbled in prostitution and the prostitutes who dabbled in acting. (It also listed the whores who'd indulge in lesbian acts - aka 'the game of flats'.) Because of this, I'd suspect the likeliest occupation of the Muffin Man was either a pimp or a local guide to the best of bawdiness the neighbourhood had to offer.
And I definitely would not say that Drury Lane was anything like Times Square before it was fixed up. I might compare Trafalgar Square at some point, to Times Square, at a push! Drury Lane goes from Aldwych to high Holborn (I think). There are posh parts and there are roughish parts. It’s definitely nothing like the east end, nor does it have the rough history. To have any property, anywhere Andrew Lane, particularly in the West End, would be insanely expensive these days. There were actually muffin man that used to hack muffins. Particularly before the late 19th century, when more people had their own ovens. I’m not 100% convinced it’s being used as a euphemism.
Or maybe it was a password...a secret phrase to gain entrance. A phrase that is combined with a response. Question: Do you know the muffin man response: The man that lives in Drury lane Heck it could be some spy type stuff too. Just a thought.
75 years old and this is the first I ever heard of the Muffin Man. I learned something new today. When I first saw the heading I thought of the Pillsbury Dough boy.
I guess they tell/read different stories to kids in Southern Louisiana. I grew up in Texas, but my parents came from the east coast. There were nursery rhyme books on the shelf that I learned to read from, so I knew the Muffin Man. Different cultures have different stories, so I get why you'd never heard of that rhyme/song before. There's Jon, educating the masses again!
I had a stepdad from 5-10 years old. When I was little if I missbehaved he told me he would call the 'kiddie police" and they would take me away. I met up with him years later as an adult and got to tell him my entire childhood, I understood it as "the kitty police". I envisioned two cats walking upright in cop uniforms that would come and take me away 😂😂😂, never realized until I was an adult he was saying "kiddie" not 'kitty".
That's an understandable error--I think we have a band of kitty police patrolling our 'hood right now. My cat might even be part of it, since she hangs out with the top Tom. Of course he might be the mussel man & she's the muffin, only she was spayed long ago so, unlikely.
I live in England and I never heard the muffin man be referred to as a pimp I was always under the impression it was a warning to children about a pedophile during that time
The City I lived in as a child actually had a street called Drury Lane. When I was about 4 years old, I went with my Mum who needed a dress altering. When she told me the seamstress lived in Drury Lane, I asked her if we could also buy muffins from the Muffin Man! I couldn't understand why she was laughing.
Having lived on the periphery of the film industry and known that most actors have second jobs and having been aware of Drury Lane theater, it occurred to me that this man could have been an actor bunking in the theater and baking when not acting. The 'muffin man' song would make a perfect advertising jingle and most actors are also musical.
Would love to see you do one on the boy who cried wolf if you havent already. Love the dedication and depth of research you always do for us so us mortals dont have to lmao.
I really should know better than to drink anything when watching your videos. You always say something that makes my drink come out of my nose from laughing so hard. I love your show!
The Muffin Man in Shrek and Shrek 2 had such little roles but brought all the joy. “Do you still know the muffin man?” “Yeah he lived on Drury Lane, why?” … “AAAH GINGGYYY!!” Also I continue to forget this man is a fellow Chicagoan/Illinois human.
I think you would enjoy the Nursery Crime series by Jasper Fforde. The Big Over Easy, has Jack Spratt and Mary Mary investigating the murder of Humpty Dumpty, and the sequel, The Forth Bear, has them investigating the death of Goldilocks, with a cameo from the Gingerbreadman!
Seconded!!! I can't wait until a new one is published. Jasper Fforde is an accomplished story teller - and easter egg bunny, stacking layer upon layer of hidden meaning. Fear the Gingerbread Man! No, really... I have read my Thursday Next books so often that they look and feel like papyri - next time I will have to wear gloves... I can not believe that the Well of Lost Plots has not another tome in store. But I am really on my toes for the second volume of FFORDE'S Shades of Grey series. For some years its publishment has already been announced, but without a specific date. In my springloaded expectation I barely avoided the mistake to buy a book of the *50* Shades of Grey series, phew! Oh great, now I have Fforde withdrawal symptoms again...
That's so interesting! I kinda like the idea of the muffinman being a murderer cause it would kind of tie in to parents telling their kids. That and i can see teachers coming up with rhymes to tell children as a sort of memory device. For it to be so well known in a place full of people, no doubt the rhyme would be refering to something either good or bad. Then over time, the good or bad wasn't completely horrifying or blessed, but kids still referred to the little rhyme for fun and it just lost it's true meaning. Great episode as always! Thanks man! :D
@@sonicfanboy3375 I know that, but you didn’t answer the question. Superman 3 or Neil Gaiman? Sorry Spider-Man 3 is a movie starring Tobey Maguire and Neil Gaiman is the creator of the Sandman comic book series. You should really read it. Spider-Man 3 can go either way I liked it most people not so much.
“English muffins“ are almost impossible to find in the UK. I’ve never seen them. They look similar to crumpets, but they taste different and they have a different texture. There is some debate as to whether or not the muffins that the muffin men used to hawk were actually like the “English muffins“ found in America, or not. I looked at all pictures of them online, from the 19th century, but I couldn’t tell. I actually think the rhyme is about an actual muffin man selling actual muffins. Not the most exciting idea. But likely
You walk into a French Café and order Fries, not French Fries....you go into an English bakery and ask for Muffins, not English Muffins.....yes, there are muffins in the UK but there's also cup cakes....oh, crumpets and muffins are two different beasties...... BHAhahaha
@rebeccamorris3955 Yeah, we do. They're like a dense, flatish bread bun. We toast them and spread them with butter. You can get them in bigger supermarkets like Asda, Tescos, Morrisons and Sainburys. Lots of bread brands make them, like Warburtons and Kingsmill. They're just called muffins here though. Even McDonald's serve them such as the Sausage and Egg McMuffin.
The rhyme is about : The Drury Lane Killer - Fredrick Thomas Linwood Would give Muffins to children to lire them in before brutally raping and murdering them… that is where the rhyme came from…
Hahaha as a Dutch person i have to laugh how you pronounce Scheveningen 😂 Not laughing like “what an idiot” tho cause it is a really difficult word to pronounce for English talking people bc of the CH that we pronounce as a Dutch G and the G is a difficult letter to pronounce.
my son was randomly singing the song in a gas station last week, and him and the cashier got into it, my son claiming he would eat the muffin man, instead of his muffins, and he wasn't safe, no matter what lane he was on. It was.... something, all right. XD
Just a comment on the "lives in Drury Lane" line: I've heard that in British English, it's common to say someone lives in a street to mean the same thing as saying they live on a street in US English. I actually looked this up on a few different forums about differences between UK and US English. I do like the idea of someone making his home in the theater and becoming a local celebrity, though.
I think it’s most likely a playful song about the way people would banter about other townsfolk and share stories. “Hey do you know Joe?” “Joe?” “Yea, Joe. You know, lives down 1st street?” “Oh yea I know Joe!” Que some bit of juicy gossip about Joe. This would also lend to it becoming a children’s game wherein they go around asking people if they know this person or that.
Also, I know you’ve done a video on the little mermaid/Ariel, but I don’t think you’ve talked about Sirens! Human bird female creatures that eventually became more known as mermaids. The mythology is so interesting!
13:13 I've heard that, very similarly, that The Muffin Man Rhyme was created to warn kids because he would kidnap them with his muffins (and sometimes on string), and would be whisked off, never to be seen again....So not necessarily a murderer, but I guess...
My mom told me that my dad was a muffin man because he munched on her muffin every other day my 13 year old self didn't know what that meant until I got older because I thought dad just loved her baking skills lol 😅😂😊
John - “not a single one of you watching can tell me who he was, where the song ab him came from…” *pauses video* me - “he really just called me out like that”
Great video as always. I found a UA-cam video by a guy called Jonny Valentine which is also excellent and explains what life was like as a muffin man! Apparently, the muffin men rang a bell but the British Parliament banned them from ringing it in the street. I don't think I can add a link here without it being blocked but it's definitely worth a look. Top work Solo Fam
But to see it in another light, the muffin man makes one less mouth to feed, so I think he was like a Victorian anti-hero who would save the day, not the way you wanted it, but the way you needed it. That’s why lil’Timmy is gone now, to save you from starving. - I am the night, Guvna!
Never did I expect that my favorite part of my favorite movie would be connected in any way to the place I grew up in. Which is hilarious because I did know there was a Drury Lane in Illinois
It’s been a hot minute since I’ve watched one of your videos (just because I’ve had competing priorities) however, I definitely appreciate the Jonathan Frakes/Beyond Belief love (13:01, 13:04, 13:09) Thank you!
😂 my flatmates have recently started doing the muffin man bit from Shrek to each other, to the point where one has decided she's the muffin man. Perfect timing, Jon
As a Dutch-speaker, hearing him mumble through the pronunciation of 'Scheveningen' made me chuckle. It reminds me of "In the beninging" or "Klaatu, Barada, Nihfrngtu!"
Honestly, I half-expected the "real" muffin man to end up being some kind of cannibalistic baker who pulled off some Sweeny Todd-style muffin selling stuff or something along those lines, so the serial killer angle doesn't surprise me. It seems like a lot of various seemingly innocent things at least have theories about them being somehow related to serial killers and the like.
I would LOVE to see a video on Valkyries (Norse mythology) and/or the Amazons (Greek Mythology)! I have a soft spot for Norse mythology, and I love your series on it thus far! I absolutely LOVE your videos, and as an aspiring author, it’s so refreshing to hear the true origins of where our stories come from! Keep up the amazing work! Edit: the topic of what the Norse Vikings were actually like also sounds interesting! How they dressed, culture, etc. I’ve heard that Hollywood gets it wrong most of the time (surprising no one lol), but I haven’t done much research myself.
@@chloermartin I am a Historian. I graduated from College where my study was Comic Book history. DC Comics have had both since 1946. Wonder Woman fought them. They were used in the Origin of the Justice Society, being brought by the big bad of World War II in 1976. When DC rebooted after the Crisis, one Valkyrie was an antagonist in Young All-Stars. It wasn't until 2017 did DC really have them fight each other. By the way, I am a writer also. I am creating my own DC Head Canon which has a lot of ideas bleed together. I even throw in some Marvel characters, Mortal Kombat, and Power Rangers. I'm trying to make the Valkyries look more like good girls rather than villains.
Because the Muffin Man is the one who made the Gingerbread Man in Shrek, is he an allusion to the old woman who made the titular character in the original Gingerbread Man fairy tale?
when you briefly mentioned Sweeney Todd I wondered if you could do an origins explained on another famous musical the fantom of the Opera. It's my favourite musical and I think you doing a video on it would a lot of fun to watch. Love your videos Jon. ❤
@@l1277 I once read that the author Gaston Leroux based his book on a real person who lived in the sewers of the Paris Opera House (it might be true or a legend, no one really knows).
Fun fact for you...ALL nursery rhymes and children's songs were made as tales of caution for kids. Ring around the rosey was made about plague, fairy tales were actually horror stories to caution kids until Disney & overprotective parents turned them into all "sunshine & rainbows". Leaving kids niave and more trusting of strangers then they should be
Oh my gosh dude i stopped watching lore videos for a long time and your channel was the first channel that i watched. It was mainly star wars if I believe. Im sorry to say i forgot your channel existed but you just popped up in my recommended and i am turning in notifications to that doesn’t happen again. Im glad you’re still posting!!
13:07 i’ve been looking for this show for like three months and my mom was convinced it didn’t exist because I couldn’t find it. Urban Legends, i love that show
I’m Dutch and I had this friend during high school, we had an assignment where we needed to submit a picture of ourselves and he submitted a picture of him with a plate of mussels. So since then we’ve been calling him the musselman.
Great video on a great topic, gave me a lot to think about. the thought that a rhyme about a pimp being taught to and sung by children is truly messed up. I am shocked that you didn't include a clip of the little Brody boy from JAWS singing the Muffin Man song. Anyway great job as always.
Can you tell us the actual origins of this popular Japanese children's song? "Tan Tan Tanuki No kintama wa Kaze mo nai no ni Bura bura" It means, "Tan Tan Tanuki's balls, even when there is no wind, they swing swing" Seriously, tanuki lore focuses on their giant testicles, and how they use them as wheelbarrows, parachutes, weapons, etc. Mario wore a tanuki suit. It's one of his most famous power ups.
Hi, Jon. Love your videos! About a week before this video posted, I saw "The Chilling Story Behind the Muffin Man" posted by Hammerson Peters. You should check it out, it's definitely a wild alternate version of the origins of the nursery rhyme.
I thought it was something to do with homelessness.. like the ragamuffin man 😂 and I've never heard of the term "coxcomb" which you mentioned.. 😆 but there is a term called "Cock Scum" meaning Penis Scum or Filth😆 Referring to the dead skin under a mans foreskin that's not been cleaned.. I'm from East London, land of the cockney.. and I can confirm, "coxcomb" is definitely not how it was spelled 😂 And I thought "Dreary Lane" meant a dark lane.. because Dreary means dark or dull.
@Fabrisse ter Brugghe I've never heard of that. But thanks for the correction, if it's true I stand corrected.. The word cock meaning penis itself, also comes from the word cokrel I think mostly because of their chin bit that looks like a ball sack 😆 so it doesn't surprise me lol I can tell your American, but in England we don't call Male Chickens Roosters, we call them "Cockerells." Hence the term "Cock a doodle do" instead of "Rooster rudy Roo?" I guess. So if you're correct.. what exactly is a Coxcomb? And how come we don't use the term here in England, yet you apparently do in America.. and the song were talking about comes from East London, England? 😕 🤔
You can find the word coxcomb in Shakespeare. It was used as an insult for a vain man, usually one who pretended to fight. I started school in Ruislip before moving to the U.S. and returned to London for Uni. Covent Garden was where I hung out back in the dark ages because I was a theatre kid. I'd hardly call that area East London. I don't think you get into the E postcodes until you cross into the square mile.
@@jimsus69 TMK it is spelled *cock's comb* , and the word denotes the often bright red crest on the top of a rooster's head, corresponding in colour and texture with the twin appendages below its beak. AFAIK the structures can be enlarged by retaining blood to show off (this definitely rings some bells...) to settle rivalries, or to impress mating partners. A quick search showed several recipes for boiled, skinned and then braised cock's combs, In the nose-to-tail philosophy those offal parts are a valid ingredient. Not my kettle of fish (pun intended), and a bit tedious to prepare, but definitely palatable, if the chefs are serious. I would not be surprised if the Middle East, or Cajuns, or Chinese, or the Soulfood cuisines had a use for the combs. Meat is meat, and AFAIK nobody knows what really bubbles away in a gumbo. The male body part definition was new for me, but it is possibly a correct one. I live to learn!
I first heard of the muffin man from the colaboration record with Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa🤣. Dad raised me and we almost exclusively lisstened to Dr Hook and Frak Zappa when I was growing up, guess it could have gone either way I might have ended up hating their music but I love it insted
Bruce Fowler on trombone, Napoleon Murphy Brock on tenor sax and lead vocals, Terry Bozzio on drums, Tom Fowler on bass, Denny Walley on slide, George Duke on keyboards, Captain Beefheart on vocals and soprano sax and madness.
There were laws to make food safe for human consumption in the Tudor times and late Middle Ages. The stocks was used as a punishment for selling butter “not wholesome for man’s body” (I did this when I was in school).
I love that scene in Shrek. Thanks again for the informative theories. PS: can't believe you achieved to talk about pu$$y in a video about a children's nursery rhyme 😅
What if the Muffin Man was a pimp with low quality stock (if you know what i mean)? Or what if he was trying to run a secret brothen in the theater somehow? I am suddenly realizing how good of a prompt "Who is the Muffin Man" is. So many possibilities there
For some reason, when I was younger, I knew the rhyme as the Muffin Man living on _Baker's_ Lane. Might just've been me filling in for not remembering the name of the actual lane, but I'm curious to know if this is a shared experience or not
Some of the songs aren’t that old, “pop goes the weasel” was about a pirate captain chasing and killing a spy, then the song was taught to children to sing in the streets to let spies know what’ll happen to them.
I'm pretty sure you took the picture in front of the Drury Theatre prior to 15 August 2022 because I took one of the antennas, that's in the picture, off of that tall glass building before eating a huge dinner at Gaetano's.
I had to giggle a bit, because I swear the intimidating chef photo in the thumbnail is a guy who used to go by the stage name Mr. Food & did recipes on the local news in the Youngstown, OH area until he died about 15-20 years ago. I think the replacement is also called Mr. Food, but that guy was kind of iconic.
Thank you all for watching and for sharing your experiences with the Muffin Man! I love seeing how much this silly song resonates with people from all around the world. 😄 Don't forget to comment your FAVORITE theory about his origins down below! 👇
▼ Podcast Links! ▼
» Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jon-solos-messed-up-origins-podcast/id1631064271
» Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0zC1NxCX576HHQUoYCuGDo
» Google Podcasts: www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vbWVzc2VkdXBvcmlnaW5z
» Amazon Music: music.amazon.com/podcasts/e2ab5016-5166-4670-b0a3-7c6ade06947d/jon-solos-messed-up-origins-podcast
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» iHeartRadio: iheart.com/podcast/99117988/
Can you look up Buddha and the history behind his great power. Even in "record of ragnarok" he's depicted as this great being that would even rival Zeus and all the other gods
I forgot to say please🤦🏽🙏🙏😭
Your not thinking with enough layers. A hobo selling cheep muffins laced with opium or cocain or heck, tobacco at the theatre. The muffin man was a drug dealer! 😆🤪
Ok I subbed 😊
Howdy hey! I was on a youtube video watching marathon and I mentioned your messed up origins deal to another youtube vid host and my fellow viewers and I hope those viewers got their theories more corrected; that is what I like about your videos; not a piece of information out of place.
“Well she's married to The Muffin Man.”
"The Muffin Man?"
@@silverbullet1620 THE MUFFIN MAN!
@@silverbullet1620 *“THE MUFFIN MAN!!!!”*
@@raven3067 "She's married to the muffin man..."
The best comment hahaha
Every time someone asks “do you know the muffin man?” I need to shout “THE MUFFIN MAN?!” to hope the person will shout back “THE MUFFIN MAN!”
id always shout it back 😄
Yessss!!!! On his very first line asking 'Do you know the Muffin Man?' I of course had to respond with 'The Muffin Man!'
And did so again and again and again every time he asked... I might have a problem 😢
@@jacobviator3118 if you have a problem then I need therapy cuz I did the same thing. Lol
I always think of Frank Zappa's song
me and my daughter just did this 😂😂
I’m so happy you covered this! Shrek literally was a cultural reset in terms of the muffin man I had no idea about the origins of the muffin man
I also heard first of the Muffin Man by Frank Zappa and then by the Shrek Saga
We used to sing it as kids. that was in the 60s
I knew the muffin man song before Shrek and I was born in the mid 90s
@@msjkramey same here, I was born in 96 and it was one of the go to nursery rhymes before shrek came out
Technically they didn't sing the song on sherk but we should know the song
Was not expecting a Muffin Man video today. Always learn something new every time Jon drops a video
Isn't that why we're all here? (-:
@derekholcomb3414 the video feels so dragged out though, like just get to the point already....
Drury Lane was never a *really* rough part of London. That honour went to the other side of Covent Garden where you found St Giles' rookery. Drury Lane was an older part of London. The lane itself dated from before Tudor times and was 'famed' for a pub that's now called The White Hart (Henry VIII is recorded as taking one of his doxies there).
When the Earl of Bedford, John Russell, was developing Covent Garden to be an upscale gated community for the wannabe posh, Drury Lane was regarded as something of a charming and 'respectable' thoroughfare in the 17th century. By the 18th century, the area had become decidedly lower-rent as fruit sellers moved into Covent Garden and more taverns, brothels and theatres sprung up on Drury Lane and the surrounding streets (think of it as 18th-century Netflix and Chill).
But it was by no means a slum - it'd probably be closer to New York's Time Square before it was cleaned up.
Prostitution was a major industry in the area - there used to be printed guides informing gentlemen (and ladies) as to where the best brothels were, which courtesans were rated highest by patrons, what their specialities were, how much they cost in addition to listing the actresses who dabbled in prostitution and the prostitutes who dabbled in acting. (It also listed the whores who'd indulge in lesbian acts - aka 'the game of flats'.)
Because of this, I'd suspect the likeliest occupation of the Muffin Man was either a pimp or a local guide to the best of bawdiness the neighbourhood had to offer.
Thanks for all that. I love history. Had no idea 😊
And I definitely would not say that Drury Lane was anything like Times Square before it was fixed up. I might compare Trafalgar Square at some point, to Times Square, at a push!
Drury Lane goes from Aldwych to high Holborn (I think). There are posh parts and there are roughish parts. It’s definitely nothing like the east end, nor does it have the rough history.
To have any property, anywhere Andrew Lane, particularly in the West End, would be insanely expensive these days.
There were actually muffin man that used to hack muffins. Particularly before the late 19th century, when more people had their own ovens. I’m not 100% convinced it’s being used as a euphemism.
👍🏾
I had to look up what doxies meant. Who says that? Lol
Or maybe it was a password...a secret phrase to gain entrance. A phrase that is combined with a response.
Question: Do you know the muffin man
response: The man that lives in Drury lane
Heck it could be some spy type stuff too. Just a thought.
75 years old and this is the first I ever heard of the Muffin Man. I learned something new today. When I first saw the heading I thought of the Pillsbury Dough boy.
Wow.... you SERIOUSLY never heard that song?!?😮
@@roberthenderson7713 Yep. I guess it never made it big in South Louisiana, when I was a kid.
@@gerardtrigo380 I can't believe everyone in America didn't know the Muffin Man. Is there a Cornbread Man? 🤔
I guess they tell/read different stories to kids in Southern Louisiana. I grew up in Texas, but my parents came from the east coast. There were nursery rhyme books on the shelf that I learned to read from, so I knew the Muffin Man. Different cultures have different stories, so I get why you'd never heard of that rhyme/song before. There's Jon, educating the masses again!
@@SarahGreen523 I grew up on Grimm's Fairy tales and Bullfinches Mythology.
I'd like to think that the Muffin Man was merely the neighborhood baker.
The friendly neighborhood baker
I had a stepdad from 5-10 years old. When I was little if I missbehaved he told me he would call the 'kiddie police" and they would take me away. I met up with him years later as an adult and got to tell him my entire childhood, I understood it as "the kitty police". I envisioned two cats walking upright in cop uniforms that would come and take me away 😂😂😂, never realized until I was an adult he was saying "kiddie" not 'kitty".
Like puss in boots, but cops…lovin it😂
Did it work though? Kitty police sounds way less scary than kiddie police.
That's an understandable error--I think we have a band of kitty police patrolling our 'hood right now. My cat might even be part of it, since she hangs out with the top Tom. Of course he might be the mussel man & she's the muffin, only she was spayed long ago so, unlikely.
I would have made the same assumption. (I have auditory processing issues, so...)
I live in England and I never heard the muffin man be referred to as a pimp I was always under the impression it was a warning to children about a pedophile during that time
Just like Red ridding Hood!😄
I'm American and that's what I was told to
The Muscle Man was a pimp. The muffin man was a pedo
The City I lived in as a child actually had a street called Drury Lane. When I was about 4 years old, I went with my Mum who needed a dress altering. When she told me the seamstress lived in Drury Lane, I asked her if we could also buy muffins from the Muffin Man! I couldn't understand why she was laughing.
Having lived on the periphery of the film industry and known that most actors have second jobs and having been aware of Drury Lane theater, it occurred to me that this man could have been an actor bunking in the theater and baking when not acting. The 'muffin man' song would make a perfect advertising jingle and most actors are also musical.
Would love to see you do one on the boy who cried wolf if you havent already. Love the dedication and depth of research you always do for us so us mortals dont have to lmao.
Another o e that I'd love for you to do is the old woman who lived in a shoe with all the kids. Like why does she live in a shoe?
@@BrownieBiteB I saw that one right before I came to this one, he put it out relatively around the same time as this one 👍
its so hilarious how Jon looks around for youtube admin before saying "p***y" and censors it anyway just to be safe
I’m convinced that nursery rhymes are creative ways ppl shared historical happenings in the past.
I really should know better than to drink anything when watching your videos. You always say something that makes my drink come out of my nose from laughing so hard. I love your show!
lmao LOVE to hear that my silly sense of humor works for someone 😂 thanks for watching Tanya!!
@Jon Solo glad I got the notification this time. I'm subscribed, but haven't gotten any notifications for months.
The Muffin Man in Shrek and Shrek 2 had such little roles but brought all the joy.
“Do you still know the muffin man?” “Yeah he lived on Drury Lane, why?” … “AAAH GINGGYYY!!”
Also I continue to forget this man is a fellow Chicagoan/Illinois human.
I think you would enjoy the Nursery Crime series by Jasper Fforde. The Big Over Easy, has Jack Spratt and Mary Mary investigating the murder of Humpty Dumpty, and the sequel, The Forth Bear, has them investigating the death of Goldilocks, with a cameo from the Gingerbreadman!
Seconded!!! I can't wait until a new one is published. Jasper Fforde is an accomplished story teller - and easter egg bunny, stacking layer upon layer of hidden meaning. Fear the Gingerbread Man! No, really...
I have read my Thursday Next books so often that they look and feel like papyri - next time I will have to wear gloves... I can not believe that the Well of Lost Plots has not another tome in store.
But I am really on my toes for the second volume of FFORDE'S Shades of Grey series. For some years its publishment has already been announced, but without a specific date. In my springloaded expectation I barely avoided the mistake to buy a book of the *50* Shades of Grey series, phew!
Oh great, now I have Fforde withdrawal symptoms again...
Okay, I’ll tell you. Do you know the muffin man?
The muffin man???
tHe MUfFiN MaN!!!
Exactly🤣
Does he know the way to Bell's Canyon?
That's so interesting! I kinda like the idea of the muffinman being a murderer cause it would kind of tie in to parents telling their kids. That and i can see teachers coming up with rhymes to tell children as a sort of memory device. For it to be so well known in a place full of people, no doubt the rhyme would be refering to something either good or bad. Then over time, the good or bad wasn't completely horrifying or blessed, but kids still referred to the little rhyme for fun and it just lost it's true meaning.
Great episode as always! Thanks man! :D
"Alright Norman get me another muffin."
"bUT iT's nOt mUFfiN tImE SiR!"
I lost it at ‘Scheveningen’
It kinda sounded like Jon didn’t want to face the ggg sound :,)
I'm glad you made this episode, I love your channel, man, and your research is fantastic. And yeah, the muffin man is a PIMP.
So... The song The Muffin Man is a 19th century equivalent of 50 Cent's "P.I.M.P"?
"That's a Greek word meaning, ' Sexy food'!" OMG, I almost spit out my lunch...hilarious LMAO!
Can you cover the dark history of the sandman of the folklore please and thank you. And keep up the good work. And I love your videos.
Neil Gaiman or Spiderman 3 version. I'm voting Gaiman. 😁
@@briansullivan5908The Sandman is a folkloric character who puts magic sand in your eye to put you asleep
@@sonicfanboy3375 I know that, but you didn’t answer the question. Superman 3 or Neil Gaiman? Sorry Spider-Man 3 is a movie starring Tobey Maguire and Neil Gaiman is the creator of the Sandman comic book series. You should really read it. Spider-Man 3 can go either way I liked it most people not so much.
“English muffins“ are almost impossible to find in the UK. I’ve never seen them. They look similar to crumpets, but they taste different and they have a different texture.
There is some debate as to whether or not the muffins that the muffin men used to hawk were actually like the “English muffins“ found in America, or not.
I looked at all pictures of them online, from the 19th century, but I couldn’t tell.
I actually think the rhyme is about an actual muffin man selling actual muffins. Not the most exciting idea. But likely
People in England don’t eat those. That’s an American Invention.
You walk into a French Café and order Fries, not French Fries....you go into an English bakery and ask for Muffins, not English Muffins.....yes, there are muffins in the UK but there's also cup cakes....oh, crumpets and muffins are two different beasties...... BHAhahaha
@@deetanner7153 You just made me realise what my Greek girlfriend meant when she nervously told me she wanted to try some "style" sex the other day.
@rebeccamorris3955 Yeah, we do. They're like a dense, flatish bread bun. We toast them and spread them with butter. You can get them in bigger supermarkets like Asda, Tescos, Morrisons and Sainburys. Lots of bread brands make them, like Warburtons and Kingsmill. They're just called muffins here though. Even McDonald's serve them such as the Sausage and Egg McMuffin.
The rhyme is about :
The Drury Lane Killer - Fredrick Thomas Linwood
Would give Muffins to children to lire them in before brutally raping and murdering them… that is where the rhyme came from…
Hahaha as a Dutch person i have to laugh how you pronounce Scheveningen 😂
Not laughing like “what an idiot” tho cause it is a really difficult word to pronounce for English talking people bc of the CH that we pronounce as a Dutch G and the G is a difficult letter to pronounce.
Hahaha yeah I laughed in a "that's so cute" kinda way :)
@@annabel185 Yeah that is indeed a better thing to say “laughed in a cute kinda way” lol
Haha, same here
Yeah, I kinda feel bad for people who live outside of the Netherlands who try to say the name of a city😂
@@veravaneijk Hahaha yeah 😂
my son was randomly singing the song in a gas station last week, and him and the cashier got into it, my son claiming he would eat the muffin man, instead of his muffins, and he wasn't safe, no matter what lane he was on. It was.... something, all right. XD
The current rising trend of using the Johnathan frakes gifs from beyond belief is excellent 👌 top tier
Just a comment on the "lives in Drury Lane" line: I've heard that in British English, it's common to say someone lives in a street to mean the same thing as saying they live on a street in US English. I actually looked this up on a few different forums about differences between UK and US English.
I do like the idea of someone making his home in the theater and becoming a local celebrity, though.
I think it’s most likely a playful song about the way people would banter about other townsfolk and share stories. “Hey do you know Joe?” “Joe?” “Yea, Joe. You know, lives down 1st street?” “Oh yea I know Joe!” Que some bit of juicy gossip about Joe. This would also lend to it becoming a children’s game wherein they go around asking people if they know this person or that.
Also, I know you’ve done a video on the little mermaid/Ariel, but I don’t think you’ve talked about Sirens! Human bird female creatures that eventually became more known as mermaids. The mythology is so interesting!
13:13 I've heard that, very similarly, that The Muffin Man Rhyme was created to warn kids because he would kidnap them with his muffins (and sometimes on string), and would be whisked off, never to be seen again....So not necessarily a murderer, but I guess...
The Muffin Man is one of my favorite urban legends. The ambiguity makes it even more intriguing.
My mom told me that my dad was a muffin man because he munched on her muffin every other day my 13 year old self didn't know what that meant until I got older because I thought dad just loved her baking skills lol 😅😂😊
Your mother was blessed. Good job Dad.
Yeah, that’s appropriate to tell your kid!!😂
John - “not a single one of you watching can tell me who he was, where the song ab him came from…” *pauses video*
me - “he really just called me out like that”
Do you know the homeless man, the homeless man, the homeless man, oh do you know the homeless man, he squats in the theatre
Great video as always.
I found a UA-cam video by a guy called Jonny Valentine which is also excellent and explains what life was like as a muffin man!
Apparently, the muffin men rang a bell but the British Parliament banned them from ringing it in the street.
I don't think I can add a link here without it being blocked but it's definitely worth a look.
Top work Solo Fam
But to see it in another light, the muffin man makes one less mouth to feed, so I think he was like a Victorian anti-hero who would save the day, not the way you wanted it, but the way you needed it.
That’s why lil’Timmy is gone now, to save you from starving.
- I am the night, Guvna!
Never did I expect that my favorite part of my favorite movie would be connected in any way to the place I grew up in. Which is hilarious because I did know there was a Drury Lane in Illinois
It’s been a hot minute since I’ve watched one of your videos (just because I’ve had competing priorities) however, I definitely appreciate the Jonathan Frakes/Beyond Belief love (13:01, 13:04, 13:09) Thank you!
Aaaah i the "MotherGoose" illustration brings back ao many memories.
What I want to know is why he's called the Muffin man when he clearly creates living gingerbread
“THE MUFFIN MAN”😂 I love how he says it😂
😂 my flatmates have recently started doing the muffin man bit from Shrek to each other, to the point where one has decided she's the muffin man. Perfect timing, Jon
You lucky bugger😂😂😂😂 sounds like fun flatmates to me!
As a Dutch-speaker, hearing him mumble through the pronunciation of 'Scheveningen' made me chuckle. It reminds me of "In the beninging" or "Klaatu, Barada, Nihfrngtu!"
{[(boomstick; mighty) repeat] -> "Hail to the King, baby!"} = GROOVY!
Honestly, I half-expected the "real" muffin man to end up being some kind of cannibalistic baker who pulled off some Sweeny Todd-style muffin selling stuff or something along those lines, so the serial killer angle doesn't surprise me. It seems like a lot of various seemingly innocent things at least have theories about them being somehow related to serial killers and the like.
Thanks for taking so much time in your research Jon Solo 😊
Unless I can get this DeLorean running, I don't think we'll ever know for sure 😁
When he first said "do you know the muffin man" did any one else imagine the gingerbread man screaming THE MUFFIN MAN?
I would LOVE to see a video on Valkyries (Norse mythology) and/or the Amazons (Greek Mythology)!
I have a soft spot for Norse mythology, and I love your series on it thus far!
I absolutely LOVE your videos, and as an aspiring author, it’s so refreshing to hear the true origins of where our stories come from! Keep up the amazing work!
Edit: the topic of what the Norse Vikings were actually like also sounds interesting! How they dressed, culture, etc. I’ve heard that Hollywood gets it wrong most of the time (surprising no one lol), but I haven’t done much research myself.
Maybe the Amazons vs the Valkyries as DC Comics intended it.
@@silverbullet1620 Ooooh I didn’t even know the DC comics included both! Interesting!
@@chloermartin I am a Historian. I graduated from College where my study was Comic Book history. DC Comics have had both since 1946. Wonder Woman fought them. They were used in the Origin of the Justice Society, being brought by the big bad of World War II in 1976. When DC rebooted after the Crisis, one Valkyrie was an antagonist in Young All-Stars. It wasn't until 2017 did DC really have them fight each other.
By the way, I am a writer also. I am creating my own DC Head Canon which has a lot of ideas bleed together. I even throw in some Marvel characters, Mortal Kombat, and Power Rangers. I'm trying to make the Valkyries look more like good girls rather than villains.
He already did a video on valkyries.
Look to the one about Thors daughter. A big part of that one is about Valkyierd if I remember correctly
Because the Muffin Man is the one who made the Gingerbread Man in Shrek, is he an allusion to the old woman who made the titular character in the original Gingerbread Man fairy tale?
when you briefly mentioned Sweeney Todd I wondered if you could do an origins explained on another famous musical the fantom of the Opera. It's my favourite musical and I think you doing a video on it would a lot of fun to watch. Love your videos Jon. ❤
The Phantom of the Opera is based on a book. I'm not sure there's much else to say about it.
@@l1277 I once read that the author Gaston Leroux based his book on a real person who lived in the sewers of the Paris Opera House (it might be true or a legend, no one really knows).
Fun fact for you...ALL nursery rhymes and children's songs were made as tales of caution for kids. Ring around the rosey was made about plague, fairy tales were actually horror stories to caution kids until Disney & overprotective parents turned them into all "sunshine & rainbows".
Leaving kids niave and more trusting of strangers then they should be
👏👏 This has been the hardest story to find out. I have tried looking and there are tons of stories about baking and bakers👏👏
Allegedly the Muffin Man's most popular flavor was "poppy".
“Well, she’s married to the Muffin Man.”
Who is SHE?
The Muffin.
The one who cooks the human meat 🍖 pies?
“[person x] lives IN [yea and such] lane” is a British turn of phrase which means the same as the “lives on” we’re more familiar with.
This notification just made me gasp but in the best way 😂 hope you're all having a good week! And thanks for the video Jon!
Oh my gosh dude i stopped watching lore videos for a long time and your channel was the first channel that i watched. It was mainly star wars if I believe. Im sorry to say i forgot your channel existed but you just popped up in my recommended and i am turning in notifications to that doesn’t happen again. Im glad you’re still posting!!
Everytime I heard the muffin man I think about that episode in Dexter's lab when he dad was addicted to his wife's muffins. 😏
"I love those muffins more than life itself!"
13:07 i’ve been looking for this show for like three months and my mom was convinced it didn’t exist because I couldn’t find it. Urban Legends, i love that show
Hey Jon maybe you can do a video on The Boy Who Cried Wolf.
Also The Ant and the grasshopper and the Horse’ Mistake?
Slipping a Micky finn would be interesting to see where that comes from.
I love your videos, Jon. They are amazing.
It’s been years since one of your videos popped up in my feed. Glad to see you’re still making videos!
I was today years old when I learned that muffin means 😺 . That's what I'm taking from today's episode! 👍🏾
The first time I heard the term was the Run DMC / Aerosmith remix of “Walk this Way.” Delightfully filthy.
I've only recently thought the Muffin Man was named Thomas.
I’m Dutch and I had this friend during high school, we had an assignment where we needed to submit a picture of ourselves and he submitted a picture of him with a plate of mussels. So since then we’ve been calling him the musselman.
I literally snorted when you said the very messed up origins of Gwenneth Paltrow
Never knew the origins of the muffin man.
Great video on a great topic, gave me a lot to think about. the thought that a rhyme about a pimp being taught to and sung by children is truly messed up. I am shocked that you didn't include a clip of the little Brody boy from JAWS singing the Muffin Man song. Anyway great job as always.
Since your looking at nursery rhymes, i would like to see your take on jack horner
Only ever knew his title. I also assumed he was the one who always baked the Gingerbread Man until I saw your video about Gingy
Can you tell us the actual origins of this popular Japanese children's song?
"Tan Tan Tanuki
No kintama wa
Kaze mo nai no ni
Bura bura"
It means, "Tan Tan Tanuki's balls, even when there is no wind, they swing swing"
Seriously, tanuki lore focuses on their giant testicles, and how they use them as wheelbarrows, parachutes, weapons, etc. Mario wore a tanuki suit. It's one of his most famous power ups.
So they remove them and put them back on?
"Some people like cupcakes better. I, for one,
Care less for them!"
Hi, Jon. Love your videos! About a week before this video posted, I saw "The Chilling Story Behind the Muffin Man" posted by Hammerson Peters. You should check it out, it's definitely a wild alternate version of the origins of the nursery rhyme.
I saw that video- it came out on April 1st..
a ripping yarn 👍🏼
“Doooo you know the muFFin man? Oh do you knOW, the muyyyyffin mayyyyyyn?”
I thought it was something to do with homelessness.. like the ragamuffin man 😂 and I've never heard of the term "coxcomb" which you mentioned.. 😆 but there is a term called "Cock Scum" meaning Penis Scum or Filth😆
Referring to the dead skin under a mans foreskin that's not been cleaned..
I'm from East London, land of the cockney.. and I can confirm, "coxcomb" is definitely not how it was spelled 😂
And I thought "Dreary Lane" meant a dark lane.. because Dreary means dark or dull.
All roosters have coxcombs. It's a key ingredient in certain pates.
@Fabrisse ter Brugghe I've never heard of that. But thanks for the correction, if it's true I stand corrected..
The word cock meaning penis itself, also comes from the word cokrel I think mostly because of their chin bit that looks like a ball sack 😆 so it doesn't surprise me lol
I can tell your American, but in England we don't call Male Chickens Roosters, we call them "Cockerells." Hence the term "Cock a doodle do" instead of "Rooster rudy Roo?" I guess.
So if you're correct.. what exactly is a Coxcomb? And how come we don't use the term here in England, yet you apparently do in America.. and the song were talking about comes from East London, England? 😕 🤔
You can find the word coxcomb in Shakespeare. It was used as an insult for a vain man, usually one who pretended to fight.
I started school in Ruislip before moving to the U.S. and returned to London for Uni. Covent Garden was where I hung out back in the dark ages because I was a theatre kid. I'd hardly call that area East London. I don't think you get into the E postcodes until you cross into the square mile.
@@jimsus69 TMK it is spelled *cock's comb* , and the word denotes the often bright red crest on the top of a rooster's head, corresponding in colour and texture with the twin appendages below its beak.
AFAIK the structures can be enlarged by retaining blood to show off (this definitely rings some bells...) to settle rivalries, or to impress mating partners.
A quick search showed several recipes for boiled, skinned and then braised cock's combs, In the nose-to-tail philosophy those offal parts are a valid ingredient. Not my kettle of fish (pun intended), and a bit tedious to prepare, but definitely palatable, if the chefs are serious.
I would not be surprised if the Middle East, or Cajuns, or Chinese, or the Soulfood cuisines had a use for the combs. Meat is meat, and AFAIK nobody knows what really bubbles away in a gumbo.
The male body part definition was new for me, but it is possibly a correct one. I live to learn!
This is one of my favorite channels I've been coming here for years
I first heard of the muffin man from the colaboration record with Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa🤣. Dad raised me and we almost exclusively lisstened to Dr Hook and Frak Zappa when I was growing up, guess it could have gone either way I might have ended up hating their music but I love it insted
I also heard first of the Muffin Man by Frank Zappa and then by the Shrek Saga
Bruce Fowler on trombone, Napoleon Murphy Brock on tenor sax and lead vocals, Terry Bozzio on drums, Tom Fowler on bass, Denny Walley on slide, George Duke on keyboards, Captain Beefheart on vocals and soprano sax and madness.
There were laws to make food safe for human consumption in the Tudor times and late Middle Ages. The stocks was used as a punishment for selling butter “not wholesome for man’s body” (I did this when I was in school).
I love that scene in Shrek. Thanks again for the informative theories. PS: can't believe you achieved to talk about pu$$y in a video about a children's nursery rhyme 😅
I love when Jon just stops to let the joke to sink In
Please do a video on the phantom of the Opera
Me when I see the thumbnail: " Is that Charles Manson with a chef pouch?"
Me after watching the video: " O god, it's even scarier!"
1st
Love the conspiracy look of looking around before whispering to avoid the algorithm lol
the muffin man bit from sherk is chefs kiss
What if the Muffin Man was a pimp with low quality stock (if you know what i mean)? Or what if he was trying to run a secret brothen in the theater somehow? I am suddenly realizing how good of a prompt "Who is the Muffin Man" is. So many possibilities there
Ring around the rosey is about a common childhood illness called Roseola. It had a high fatality rate. It's been around forever..
I swear the timing is perfect with the Adam Lambert version going around.
😂😂😂 i was gonna say that ❤
Do you know the muffin man.
Me: Nope, but i looking for the candy man. I got cavities because he got me hooked on his addictive candy.
For some reason, when I was younger, I knew the rhyme as the Muffin Man living on _Baker's_ Lane. Might just've been me filling in for not remembering the name of the actual lane, but I'm curious to know if this is a shared experience or not
Some of the songs aren’t that old, “pop goes the weasel” was about a pirate captain chasing and killing a spy, then the song was taught to children to sing in the streets to let spies know what’ll happen to them.
Correct me if im wrong but the common British phrase would be "I live IN Oak Avenue". When Americans would say ON Oak Avenue, just as an example .
Yes he knows the muffin man... very well apparently.
I'm pretty sure you took the picture in front of the Drury Theatre prior to 15 August 2022 because I took one of the antennas, that's in the picture, off of that tall glass building before eating a huge dinner at Gaetano's.
I had to giggle a bit, because I swear the intimidating chef photo in the thumbnail is a guy who used to go by the stage name Mr. Food & did recipes on the local news in the Youngstown, OH area until he died about 15-20 years ago. I think the replacement is also called Mr. Food, but that guy was kind of iconic.
Plot twist: The muffins were laced with poison, that's why no one can be found who's been there.