A zoom class of my Collegue that will assure me a future: Man, so boring, zzz A 25 minute video of treantmonk talking bout Freaking Nets: lets fucking go!
I believe DndBeyond changed the damage "because programming". They didn't expect a weapon to do NULL damage (in programming's term). Null is equivalent to nothing, void etc. Adding a null possibility would probably incur a lof of changes in their codeand they probably don't have time to redesign everything related to weapon damage just for the net that no one uses anyway.
Late reply I know, but I'm a senior software developer and this example is why I really hate that DnD is moving to virtual stuff. Programming is fun for me personally, but it really sucks for story telling. The exact thing you mentioned is why. With DnD, you can do whatever you imagine. But with programming, doing something as simple as giving a net no damage could cost $10k in developers salary. It's simply not what you want if you want to let your imagination guide you and find the story as you can.
Check out this: Beast Master ranger (with Tasha's beast) and Crossbow Expert. You can use your net with an attack action against adjacent foe (without disadvantage due to the feat). We can't attack the second time, but we didn't lose this extra attack, we just couldn't use it to actually attack. So we use this attack to command your beast instead and with BA we are attacking with advantage (again - feat). Next our beast get an attack with advantage too. I don't think that this build is particularly powerful but I just can't stop enjoying how nicely everything here works together
Funny you brought up the net, because my last session as a barbarian I had an excellent net-related opportunity to shine. An Ettin was being a major threat, but an easy target and I was almost down. I had to do something to stop it from rampaging through my allies at any cost. I did have Tavern Brawler and could have grappled, but I knew it had multiattack and it wouldn't need more than one hit to down me and move on to my allies. I realised I had the net, threw it and hit (I had both advantage and disadvantage from circumstances, so it was pretty likely. Like I said, easy target). The practical upshot I figured was that The Ettin now couldn't both down me and attack an ally. Worth an action, because I had several allies who could clean up if I could just buy time. What happened next is that when it chose to try and cut its way out of the net, the disadvantage caused it to fail, and when it tried to attack me after that, the disadvantage caused it to fail again. It then got even better as my allies turned on it, and the advantage on attacks got us to score two hits that otherwise would've missed, for way more damage I could have done myself. I wouldn't recommend building a whole character around the net, but a net and a little luck can really come in clutch and turn the tide as an additional option. Also excellent for chase scenes. It's also a means by which you could actually flee combat in an "infinite white room scenario" against opponents with equal speed, by preparing an action to throw the net between turns, restrain them and dash away to get a headstart. Regular dash/disengage actions will always have them catch up, but the net won't. The value of the net also goes up the more allies you have. From this moment forward, my necromancer is going to have a couple of the skeleton horde be armed with nets for extra synergy!
Restraining a boss with a net that can not slash open the net, lets you trade your action to stop his entire action, NETTING your party essentially a free turn.
That's how I use the Irresistible dance. Sure, you'll make the save, but you have to waste your action to do so. The Paladin and the Rogue needed the extra turn to maul on you.
@@WexMajor82 does the dance get the nets abilities or is it restricted to the monster card it gets, just cause its a net doesnt mean it gains the restrain ability of the net since its not just a net anymore its a monster with a stat card which doesnt list the net's ability, neat idea, can you show me where it says the object retains its base property? cause a net also has an ac of 10 and a hp of 5 which it would adopt aswell...
@@CrashCraftLabs They are saying that they use the spell Otto's Irresistible Dance to a similar effect of wasting an enemy's attack, not that they are making the net into a creature.
Net needs more love. My DM has given me barbed nets that deal 1d2 piercing damage. He also allows me to use a Net with the Catapult spell. That was a fun way to stop a flying creature!
Net works particularly well with rogue when paired with crossbow expert, sharpshooter, and 1 lvl of fighter (for archery and net proficiency). With this combo you use your action to throw your net, and crossbow expert allows you to fire your hand crossbow afterwards as a bonus action. Since the creature gets restrained upon a hit with a net, you gain advantage with your bonus action and thereby get your sneak attack as well. This can be done from 15 ft away per the sharpshooter feat(well out of a medium or large creature's reach) and allows you to effectively crowd control them whilst benefiting from all of the standard rogue features, and potentially sharpshooter damage depending on their armor. Not only this, but if you have even one other party member with sharpshooter or great weapon master, you can effectively provide them permanent advantage to get their +10 on each attack, while potentially keeping 1 enemy permanently crowd controlled. This combo can come online as soon as lvl 5 with variant human.
At 10:10 you miss the most obvious way to use your reaction to throw the net, and that's as a readied attack. Just state "if the enemy moves to a space 5 feet from me I throw my net on it," now when the enemy advances your reaction throws the net. This has the risk that they'll then use their action that turn to attempt to free themselves from the net, but the benefit is very real that they've now wasted their entire turn dealing with your net, and if they don't get out, and remember that even though that AC of 10 is low they are still at disadvantage for any attacks they make including attacks made towards the net, then they are restrained at least until their next turn. Honestly the whole net issue could be fixed by 1) rule that the net can be used as a melee weapon, because it can, it's a silly restriction to make it only ranged, it would certainly be as easy to use in melee than it would be to toss at someone from any distance, and 2) allow strength to be used since nets are weighted they are actually pretty difficult to just toss around. 3) increase the nets AC to 12, it's hit points to 10, and the strength check to escape a 14 for the entrapped creature while remaining 10 for a creature to assist a trapped creature. This way it's easier to help someone out of a net than it is to help yourself out of one. Finally, remove the silly requirement that you cannot make extra attacks after tossing a net. That was just needlessly punitive and shows that the net was likely designed early in a more simulationist draft of the rules and then retained those simulationist rules even as the rest of the game became more abstract. One more rule that I might consider for the bet is that armor is ineffective against it. Plate armor shouldn't help against a net, it should probably make things worse because it has all these places the net can catch on to further restrain the defender, so perhaps you could either say that attacks against heavily armored targets have advantage, which would be huge for the net's functionality, or that the only bonus to AC a target can get is from their Dex, not their armor, which would also be a big win. The bottom line though to all this ranting is that the net doesn't do anything useful in it's current state, but it is a fun tactical idea that was just not implemented in a way that makes it useful. What we should be doing is trying to make combat more interesting through these kinds of special weapons, not introducing awesome special weapons that are so punishing to use that everyone just avoids them.
I think your ideas are sound, especially for a two weapon style of fighter. The classic Retiarius net and trident used his net defensively to deflect attacks or ensnare weapons as well as to throw on a bonus attack to restrain opponents.
Feels like at that point you could just change the net from being a weapon and make it an item that works like a spell. Give it a 1 Action use and a dex save. Not entirely unlike caltrops, ball bearings, Holy Water, Acid and other items that are not on the weapon list.
This video got me excited about the net. Not for a PC build, but to use as a DM. Throw a couple of kobold “trappers” (pack tactics baby!) with nets as part of a bigger encounter, and it would make for a very fun and different type of fight.
It is pretty efficient to throw a net with the extra attack action from haste since that is always a single attack anyway, you can then continue with a normal attack action or dex based spell.
A friend of mine ran one of those net builds pre gloomstalker. He also ran a dual wielding lancer paladin and an illusionist wizard up to tier 4. Fun guy, I think he is exactly who that net mechanic is for. For him so much of the fun of the game was in that creative act of exploit finding. He seemed to have fun showing off whatever creation he had come up with.
I wanted to share a few insights I've had while playing a net wielding Battle Master, recently. First, the disadvantage for attacking with a ranged weapon in melee is applied only if the target can see you. This makes the net substantially more effective when ambushing an opponent or in combination with the Invisibility spell. In both cases, you're turning an attack at Disadvantage into an attack with Advantage that can then grant Advantage on a substantial number of future attacks. The second insight is that the Interception fighting style synergizes well with a net fighter in that the target of your Reaction defense can be the net if it is targeted with a Slashing attack, especially if fighting a creature with a mix of damage types in their Multiattack action.
I feel like the "disadvantage at 5 feet" issue with a net was an oversight of the designers not understanding their own damn rules. No way did they intend it to ALWAYS be at disadvantage without feats or countering advantage.
Restrained (no saving throw) on a hit seems pretty powerful even for an attack that does no damage and limits your ability to make second attacks. It would be a weapon of choice for martials level 1-4 and casters with a dip that gives them proficiency all the way up to 20 (get the mending cantrip, you'll need it). DId I mention no initial saving throw? And if you are a caster with xbe and a dip in hexblade a net seems like a natural weapon for you.
@@Magnushamann but given that a battle master's trip attack is similar in function I wouldn't say it's broken. The trade off of not being able to perform any other attacks and needing martial weapon proficiency makes sense.
How about having a Bola weapon in the game.? That would have a greater range be a true ranged attack and they would be restrained and have to make a saving throw or go prone? I always love the idea behind a Bola.
Here's a pretty good house rule to make nets actually somewhat functional: Nets are a martial *melee* weapon with the finesse and thrown (range 10/20) properties. Nets have the special property that currently exists in the PHB, but strike out the "can only make one attack" restriction, and explicitly add the caveat, "When you hit an enemy with a net, it deals 0 weapon damage, and this attack cannot qualify for, and does not count towards, any effects that modify damage." (Slightly awkward phrasing at the end there but the intent is that you won't be penalized for hitting an enemy with a net - e.g., it won't use up your sneak attack, nor a grave cleric's channel divinity or any generic "extra damage on the first time you hit with an attack on a turn" effects, because it won't count for those features in the first place.)
I always thought the ranges listed for using a net were ridiculous until I watched a video of a guy trying to net a crazy guy with a machete in a modern day setting. From about 5 feet away the guy with the net completely missed. Opened my eyes to the D&D range being reasonable. 😂
This was a great highlight of an underused weapon. I think that when we talk about whether a build is good or not, if we always go back to DPR, I think we're missing the point because then we should all just make echo knights with GWM. This goes back to the whole point of this channel: think of a concept that you think is fun (in this case using a net - like a gladiator type) and then make that the best character it could be for the game you're playing in. Not just get the most damage possible because where's the fun in that?
Our Barbarian threw his net as a joke in Session 1 of our campaign and it was an absolute game changer. Instantly became a staple of our sessions. Massively underrated tool IMO
The Net seems best used when it complements the rest of a build, rather than having to build around it. A Dexterity-Based Battle Master Fighter would likely want the Archery Fighting Style, Sharpshooter, and Crossbow Expert regardless, so needing only one maneuver to make the Net work is a pretty good investment.
You’ve described my “Caveman” archer. Action Surge + Net + SS & Precision maneuver. It got nutty. The DM asked me to reroll in the middle of the campaign😅
My thoughts exactly. For 1 gp, having a net or two on my belt if I have a compatible build just makes sense, for those specific situations where it would be beneficial. While it is easy to escape a net, escaping always has action economy costs, and restrained is a very good condition to impose even for just for a turn or two before the target's initiative comes around again. Hell, even if I don't have a compatible build, I think it is worth carrying a net for the rare edge cases that might come up (for example, even at disadvantage, a melee martial readying an action to toss a net at a fast flyer who is ruining their day with flyby attacks might be well worth it. It could also be pretty hilarious, especially if said flyer happens to be sailing over a high drop or an environmental hazard when that net hits them and they start plummeting).
Looking at the net rules... do you think the devs knew that if they didn't want people to use a net, they could have just not printed rules for them in the first place?
While a net might not be a good weapon, it can be a component in a trap if your players are fond of setting up ambushes(or if you want to shows your players what a couple of kobolds can do with it). There are other ways to use nets out of combat, like for carrying objects, making makeshift hammocks and (if it is the right kind of net) fishing. I could imagine there being exotic or magic nets that could remove or subvert some of the base weapon's downsides. Like a 'net' made of heavy spiked chain that can be used as a flail in melee combat. Or, indeed, an animated net.
I created a net-using war cleric for a 5th level one-shot. So much fun! Once she had spirit guardians set up, the rest of the turns were about tossing the net + spiritual weapon strikes. Can't remember if I took both of the feats or just sharpshooter. I do remember taking the Mending cantrip to fix all my broken nets. Oh, and both the spiritual weapon and spirit guardians were in the forms of nets. I called her Annie throughout the session because I was afraid they'd kick me out if they found out I named her Annette.
My net build. 3 battlemaster fighter. Archery fighting style. Precision attack, riposte, and quick toss maneuvers. Crossbow expert feat, and eventually sentinel feat. The rest of levels into rogue. Fight side by side with your melee martials. Action to throw the net without disadvantage within 5ft of an enemy. If it misses, add precision attack die. Since you’ve attacked with a one handed weapon, utilize your hand crossbow. Pull out finesse weapon for chances to use your reaction to attack the creature. If it attacks the net to break it, the net isn’t you so sentinel reaction. If creature attacks your martial, martial isn’t you and you sentinel attack. If creature attacks you because you have less armor but still at disadvantage and misses, riposte. If it hits, uncanny dodge. If you miss your initial net even with precision attack, quick toss for another chance. It’s kind of like the mastermind, except your help action has the potential to miss OR be effective for multiple allies. It’s also kind of like a help action that actually helps casters.
"The Fire elemental engulfs your rope net in fire burning it for 39 points of damage and-" "Not a scratch" "The goblin weakly hits your net with it's scimitar." "Nooo my one weakness!"
What about embracing the disadvantage and using the Lucky feat to turn disadvantage into "Super advantage"? This is extremely effective on winged flying creatures if you ready an action to net them when they swoop within range as when restrained and reduced to 0 movement they drop out of the sky and take a little falling damage which also makes them prone.
I can see a Bladesinger using a net effectively. We can get the net as our weapon proficiency and we're already build for dex. Casting a non-attack cantrip like Toll the Dead or Minor Illusion on extra attack avoids the one attack per action restriction.
Seems I missed that. Would have to get proficiency from race then. Elven or Dwarven Weapon Training with the new customization options seems like the best way.
If a Bladesinger with the Dual Wielder feat used threw a net with his bonus action, would that be effective? The proficiency clause does suck, but you might still be able to get away with it even though you aren’t adding your proficiency to the attack roll. Create Bonfire is a Dex save (and a fun Cantrip for battlefield control) Imagine, net + whip (why not?) + Create Bonfire as your 6th level turn 1 action. Maybe they get out, but at the very least, they wasted their action
Undead Warlock can impose the frightened condition with a net, as Form of Dread only requires an attack roll be made. This means the enemy has disadvantage on ability checks and therefore disadvantage to escape. Still trying to work out how this information is useful though! Great video Tmonk!
A net is a consumable combat multiplier. There aren't very many of those in D&D when you really get down to it. And there are a lot of situations where you might be holding an action, like an attack, until something comes into range or is visible or something - you are only getting 1 attack in a situation like that, and a net might make a ton of sense there.
my favorite net build would be Kobold Rogue with Crossbow Expert (Sharpshooter optional for extra damage) 1 level fighter or Fighter initiate feat for Archery Stand next to friend when throwing net = advantage (cause no disadvantage within 5ft from crossbow expert) you used your advantage action to restrain target now you can bonus action Hand Crossbow the dude and all you friends will also have advantage, rinse and repeat for party wide advantage every round my favorite in-the-moment use of a net ive seen, was a wizard saw an enemys dropped net, cast Catapult on it and directed it towards a flying enemy, hitting it and restraining it, causing it to fall to its death (We ruled afterwards that that was a "rule of cool" moment and that it woulnt be allowed as a "always works" strategy)
It's easy to miss this Treantmonk, but there is a 100% RAW solution in the PHB. It may not be intended, but the fact that the net has no effective range also seems unintended or they would have gave it a close range of 0ft, not 5ft and forget about range weapon disadvantage. Under improvised weapons it says " If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, it also deals 1d4 damage". For a net, imagine it has heavy weights on it to attack with. I think you still get to add proficiency bonus too since it says "Proficiency with a weapon allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for ANY attack you make with that weapon. If you make an attack roll using a weapon with which you lack proficiency, you do not add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll." That doesn't even stop it from restraining since it says " A Large or smaller creature hit by a net is restrained until it is freed" It doesn't say it has to be a ranged attack. In conclusion, you don't need to attack with disadvantage, you can deal 1d4 damage, and still add proficiency and the restrained condition by using a net in melee as an improvised weapon.
Not sure this would work but... if you take the Tavern Brawler Feat it makes you proficient in improvised weapons. It says in the PHB that if you use a weapon in a way that it's not meant to be used (stabbing someone with an arrow) it's now an improvised weapon. Hitting someone with a net that is ment to be thrown (like stabbing with an arrow) means that you are now attacking with an improvised weapon & you are proficient with it. You can even get a bonus action grapple.
The qualifier that you can't use more than one attack with a net is bull, because it means you can't play a Retiarius (net and trident style gladiator) and be effective. What is wrong with giving up one attack for restrained and advantage on one attack anyway?
Personally, ive used the net a few times, and in practice its worked like a charm. At low levels against a tough enemy at least. The 2 big advantages i found is; it gave advantage to the entire party at the cost of my action. And it put the dm in a difficult position of deciding whether to sacrifice the creatures action to remove the net, or try attacking us with disadvantage. Remembering that if it hits, the creature is restrained and can only attempt an escape on their turn. Also, effective if your in a situation where you are facing a flying foe. You prepare an action, with the intention to throw the net when the creature comes in range for a swoop attack.
PHB beastmaster solves most of the net problems with just a normal ranged build. (Pet attack bypasses the restriction, archery fighting style, usually takes crossbow expert or sharpshooter) I also like how its thematic that the ranger in general is one of the easiest to use nets. I always take a net with my ranger even if I rarely use it. (same with wips) also the ranger has spells that could add to damage. ensnaring strike is a good spell(two sources of restrained not just one).
A kindve cool interaction, although I don't know if it's too useful, is that a ranger can use lightning arrow on the net to do some damage. A lenient DM might be convinced that when it turns back to normal the creature would be restrained.
A good technique for a Net is a held action. If you hold until the end of their turn, you can guarantee a full round of attacks and Dex saves from your allies (and yourself, because you will get another action before they go again) before they even get to try to free themselves. And then that might be all they can do that round.
When I make martial builds... I usually make net builds... I even make net builds on many of my casters if they can use weapons (now that many races can get weapon proficiencies).
Minor can make the Net viable! Use Minor Illusion to temporarily block the target’s view of the thrower, and then throw the Net. If you are within 5 feet of the target, then you avoid Disadvantage. I call this the “Matador Maneuver”. Build 1: • High Elf • Minor Illusion Cantrip • Battlemaster • Elven Accuracy at Level 4 • Action = illusion of matador cape to block target’s view • You automatically see through the illusion • Elven Accuracy triggered because you now have Advantage on attack • Bonus Action = Quick Toss with Net • Action Surge = Attack with Rapier • Extra Attack = Attack with Rapier Build 2: • Elf • Sorcerer • Bonus Action Quicken Minor Illusion to block view • Action = Throw Net
Used a net with a hobgoblin wizard once. It was a better option than anticipated. DM did not want to "waste" actions removing it or destroying it when the creature could have been casting something, using another ability or even just because the creature lacked a slashing option to attack the net (and didn't want to forfeit 2 or more attacks to try to free itself). Hobgoblin's saving face ability made it a bit more reliable and it tended to see use along side my cantrips.
While my DM was quite generous I think this works with rules as written, tie a net around some vials of acid or alchemist’s fire (less than 5lbs. total) and then cast catapult on the net. The net is thrown by the spell and does 3d8 bludgeoning damage (which doesn’t destroy the net) plus the damage from the vials of acid or fire (which also don’t destroy the net) and you get the normal benefits of the net for restraining a target, and a bonus, the range is now 90’ ft. per the spell description. Now you could argue that since the net wasn’t thrown the “intended” way it shouldn’t have the effects of restraining the target, but no where in the description of the net does it mention how it should be thrown. I am aware that most casting classes don’t get proficiency with martial weapons but since we’re using a spell to throw it that isn’t explicitly required. Now with this method in mind you could stuff the net with any number of items, caltrops, ball-bearings etc. and have other bonus effects.
Carry a bunch of nets on your belt as a high level Monster Slayer Ranger with the archery and throwing styles. Using Slayer's Counter opens the possibility of using them as a reaction on the enemy's turn and having them be restrained for a full round of attacks and dex saves, and wastes their remaining movement for the current turn as well since their action is likely used up.
I've been contemplating a kobold ranger. Beastmaster. Going for the classic wolfrider kind of vibe, and using lance & nets frequently. That removes disadvantage, so it is just a straight roll. Also, breaking free of the net still takes an action or an attack. At low level against a single powerful enemy, that is still 100% a viable strategy. When we have action economy advantage, 1 action to nullify an enemy's action is worth it. Also, a beastmaster ranger gets to weaponize their bonus action via their companion via bonus action. Additionally, the net says you can only make one attack if you could normally make multiple attacks, but nothing says you can't give up one of your normal attacks to your beast companion, then attack with your net. Finally, the target needs to deal SLASHING damage specifically to the net. Not fire damage, not necrotic damage, not radiant damage. Slashing damage. A creature with a mace is screwed, a creature with fangs is screwed, a creature with fists is screwed. Also technically you could deal damage with the net if you cast holy weapon upon it. ...and I typed that and you did cover most of that at the end, excellent. And yes, Kobold would already have advantage in general with pack tactics, but your allies don't benefit from pack tactics.
Grab bag of net ideas here: 1. Ready. I think I’ll try “Readying” my attack with the net with the trigger/condition being when the my opponent attacks. Sure, they get to hit me first. But that way they’ve already used their action and probably won’t have a way to deal with the net before I take my next turn (with them Restrained). 2. Dread Ambusher seems good. At the start of your first turn of each combat, your walking speed increases by 10 feet, which lasts until the end of that turn. If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type. So attack with a shove, nock them prone, and for the additional weapon attack use the next. …unless I’m getting something wrong here? 3. Poisoner Fear. Using poison on nets seems like it could open up some interesting possibilities.
So, a couple interesting options come to mind: if using a beastmaster, you can use Beast of the Land to charge and knock an enemy prone. This would give you advantage as long as you're within 5 ft. You can also use your bonus action and extra attack to command your beast to attack instead of attacking yourself. If you're using a kobold, you would also have advantage through pack tactics if the charge fails, or you could go with a small sized hexblood to hex the creature and give it disadvantage to str saves, making it more difficult for the creature to get out. Also, since you're small, you can ride your valiant stead into combat.
I've been toying with a Rogue build lately that has Crossbow Expert and uses a hand crossbow and a net. It nets in melee then shoots for a sneak attack. The only awkward thing is what subclass; Swashbuckler would be divine if point blank ranged attacks were considered melee attacks. And thanks for mentioning the War Cleric route; that gives me a lot of ideas
This video is appreciated. I have been looking up videos about the net since my wife wanted to build a Gladiator with Trident and net. It's not always about the damage for us so we can play with it as story and now know we can have an artificer create a magic net for higher levels.
This was a very good video. I think one thing that wasn't brought up is that the advantage gotten from the net would apply to all members of the party that go before the creature can free itself. If you're doing a solo mission, it might not be quite as effective, but it might be very worth it for helping the rest of the party to attack the creature. I also wonder... if a creature didn't have slashing damage, you could have more than one character throw a net, and it could be game over.
Throw a net on every Large or smaller creature incapacitated by Hypnotic Pattern before you release them from the spell. Remember that the disadvantage from close range doesn’t apply on attacks against incapacitated enemies (as long as no alert enemies are next to you).
Maybe I didn't catch it, but there is an interesting interaction between using a net and the Catapult spell that makes it quite good for a 1st level spell slot. Since you hit creatures with the object that gets catapulted, rules as written the creature should be restrained.
I guess it would be up to the DM to determine if the net would survive the ordeal, taking 3d8 bludgeoning damage. It would probably assume the net vas vulnerable to slashing damage with at least 10 hp - and perhaps have bludgeoning resistance. The wording «hits» and «strikes» is not the same?
Like seriously, I'm so surprised this is a ranged weapon and not a thrown one. Thank you for saying what I was thinking. Do you think this was balanced this way on purpose or was this an accidental printing?
Well to be fair its not a melee weapon, so it cant be a melee weapon with the thrown property. And if its not melee its ranged. Darts are also ranged even though they are just thrown.
I have an idea for overcoming a limitation of the net. In combat and even before combat starts, you can ready an action and set the trigger and that trigger can happen, even if it's not on your turn. So if you're in a situation where combat could be imminent, you could ready to throw your net at the nearest enemy that comes within 15ft of you. So even if you just happen to be at the very bottom of the initiative order, you can still throw the net and possibly prevent that creature from making an attack on you. So while it may kinda suck using the net as your action on your turn, its probably great for a prepared action at the start of combat. I suspect this may also work for True Strike if its readied before combat starts so that way you don't need to waste your turn.
You could use a net in melee range as an improvised weapon like using a bow for a melee weapon attack. Melee Attack doesn't need a Melee Weapon as your hands are not Melee Weapons but it still count as Melee Attack
I appreciate the Net for giving us a non-lethal control option; anything that inspired alternate victory conditions in this game is welcome; if we want less murder hoboes, then we need ways of rewarding people for not being one. That said, my favorite method of employing the Net is at the end of a Catapult spell. I obviate most of the drawbacks of the net, adding in bludgeoning damage and range. I have less ways of stacking damage after that point, or making their saves any more difficult, but I've forced the enemy to consider their next move, which is priceless.
The net is good in the hands of whoever already has the action economy advantage. PCs against a boss monster? Fair use. PCs against a horde? Bad use. Monster horde against a PC? Deadly use. The best users of a net in my opinion are hordes of enemies (goblins, drow, kobolds w/ pact tactics, orcs, etc)
Hordes using ranged attacks that have a disengage feature for when the players close the distance. Double trouble in a dungeon with murder holes and a maze of closeable doors.
Adding this late- nets are surprisingly good in high levels against bosses who trade out condition resistance (like against restrained) for Legendary Resistances. LR's simply don't apply, as there's no saving throw. There's no counterspell. And at those levels, where enemies might have a big spell they're not in position for, then you buy your party a round. A shame that there's no interaction between the restrained condition and somatic components, but with archery and stupid high attack rolls + adv, you're unironically a big help with the net. Source: Icewind Dale. That demilich had a massive minus to STR lol. Does hard fail against teleporters tho.
I know that non-lethal (or even non-violent) combat resolutions are very seldom needed in most types of adventures, but the net could really shine there. A chance to apply the Restrained condition without using any resources? Yes, please.
if you wanna have a similar ability to restrain someone but as a melee fighter you can attack with grappling strike manuever then use the shove action as your second attack. now you have a prone and grappled (basically restrained) target and they have to kill you or escape your grapple. Barb reccomended for being beefier and harder to escape
I think my next martial character will consider it, beast master ranger sounds good, but so does Battlesmith for enchanting it, using intelligence to hit, and having a pet already!
Eldritch Knight, War Magic. Cast a cantrip, get a bonus action attack. If you’re using a shield just drop your weapon, object interaction to pull out the net and toss it. So what happens if an enemy picks up your weapon while it’s on the ground? Bonus Action Weapon Bond to bring it back to your hand next turn. Definitely not an “every round” tactic but if your target is really slippery or if you know your Wizard is going to Disintegrate, it could really be worth it. And it costs no resources to do.
AND you could have your familiar Help on the target you want to counter the disadvantage. You don’t have to attack the same target as your Cantrip, so you can save the Help action’s effect for the Net attack. No feats required, but does take some work to set up.
There is a nifty spell called Catapult. You launch an item at something else, such as, say, a net, AND deal 3d8 bludgeoning damage to both targets. Granted, it deals damage to the net, but the net specifically says slashing damage, so it would be up to the DM.
Funny this came up. My next build plan is similar to the battlemaster/gloomstalker build Chris presented with a couple differences. Level 1 - Custom Lineage with Piercer Dex 18 Level 4 - Crossbow Expert Level 6 - Sharpshooter Level 10 - (Level 4 Gloom) 20 Dex Level 12 - (Level 8 BattleMaster) Resilient Wisdom I wanted this build because it utilizes two underused weapons, the Heavy Crossbow and the net. With Piercer and a d10 weapon it ups the damage a bit.
I made myself a net fighter build and tried it out last night. (Level 5. All fighter) and I have to say I love it. Mainly because it's weird rules and weaponising jank is the only way for me to enjoy theory crafting builds. But I have to say it felt super great being able to chuck a net on a bad guy and then let my party beat their ass. Especially since I got a wizard with baby strength who failed his first escape attempt.
Simple fix, +5 to min and max range (10/20ft range). Use polearm master to trigger the net throw as they get in range. Have a dex saving throw as an aoe effect, to slash or str check to break your way out over multiple turns, so a small creature could escape in one turn cutting with a dagger, medium or large take 2 and 3 turns respectively to cut through, without aid. Leaving the net destroyed. Even adding resistance to slashing damage made by restrained targets, due to limited movement.
Should covering someone with the net using a Sleight of Hand check also impose the Restrained condition? If so I will make a Thief Rogue with Fisherman Background, using a Net and Fishing Rod(reskinned whip) as weapons. hahahah
Using Tasha options, I'm playing hobgoblin clockwork soul with net proficiency and it's great! On nearby creature (even ones that fly) I throw net, use restore balance to negate disadvantage, then either quicken a spell (like say mind whip if the creature has multi attack) or I just let my melee friends gang up on it. I netted a Mage once and quickened fog cloud so it couldn't misty step out or cast any spells relying on sight. My Martials easily dispatched the poor guy in one round
The monk's Deflect Missiles ability could potentially throw a net, as long as it's a "missile" and small enough to hold in one hand. Of course you have to be attacked with a net :P
Sorry for comenting on a 2 year old video, but i just wanted to point out that, for some builds, it is very easy to accomodate the net. I’m rolling up a level 8 Battle Master, the old Vhuman Xbow expert Sharpshooter, and since i already had the feats to shoot without Disadvantage, i only needed to give up one maneuver for quick toss, and now the net is another tool in my package.
Might work pretty well with someone who is mainly a rogue and crossbow expert. You'd need to multiclass for the proficiency, but the opportunity cost of using one once you have it is pretty low. Advantage vs 2 attacks isn't as good but since most of your damage is from the sneak attack its close, and the target is restrained for when the great weapon master shows up a second later.
I played a short 13th Age campaign where the first thing I did with my Paladin's starting gold was buy like 20 nets. I didn't do any optimization, and I don't believe it was anywhere close to the most effective thing I could have done (it didn't feel amazingly reliable or impactful at any point), but it was a cool aesthetic to work with and it wasn't so weak that I ever dropped the tactic. I do kind of want to see about making a Retiarius subclass for the Fighter based around removing all the inconveniences of net use (ie stuff like removing the action restrictions on its use and the pervasive disadvantage, and improving the strength check to scale with your proficiency bonus) and, I dunno, making tridents and aquatic combat more effective.
There's one more way to cancel the net's disadvantage that you haven't mentioned. If a creature is prone, attacks within 5 feet have advantage. It makes sense in a realistic way - if a creature is on the ground, it should be easier to drop a net on it. I do like how a net can be used to give certain builds a damage boost, but most people play in a party. Nets are a great way for a more utility-focused character to set up their teammates to do massive damage. And as War Cleric, I could use my +10 to attack Channel Divinity to increase one ally's attack roll. Or, I could use it to toss a net, using that CD to give advantage to my entire party until the creature's next turn.
the reason D&D beyond lists it as bludgeoning is because D&Dbeyond uses templates for listing items, so that they can be added to your sheet in the proper cathegory, a similar situation happened with the storm boomerang magic item, where they needed to code in a "base boomeran" weapon, and then add the magic item on top, but in the process creating a vaguely official mundane boomerang
Clocklock works well with net. You can use your ability to neutralize the disadvantage then quicken something with a dex save or hex their strength. Or just let your buddies pile in. Especially good against Mindflayers!
Question: Net traps are something that exist in D&D. Other than it isn't explicitly adjudicated in the rules, what would happen if you dropped a net on someone from above. Either an ambush, telekinesis spell, Psi Warrior Telekinetic Movement, Unseen Servant, Mage Hand.... Dropping something from above isn't necessarily an attack, but people have been pouring vials of acid or dropping flasks of alchemists fire for 6 years...
Regarding the bonus action triggering from an attack action: I vaguely remember you having to finish your action, so doing all attacks of the attack action, before you are allowed to do the bonus action. I might be wrong here tho.
So i have a conclusion on the net, and a question. Q: Can you do an improvised weapon attack with the net, using it as melee weapon, thus skipping the disadvantage on 5ft ranged weapons but dropping proficiency (unless you're proficient with improvised). Conclusion: - A net is a one handed martial ranged weapon, and as such uses DEX. - Its short range is 5ft which implies disadvantage from its ranged property. Its long range is 15ft, which implies disadvantage too. - Sharpshooter can negate the long range disadvantage and Crossbow Expert can negate the short range disadvantage. Advantage also can negate a disadvantage, but it can also stack with those two feats. - You sacrifice all weapon attacks of one attack action to throw a net. But you can still do other action types, even if those are weapon attacks. - While it is easy to get free from a net, it guarantees crits on all attacks until the target gets free and it can only get free during its turn or that of its allies, at the cost of an action. - The net has no associated damage type, so all damage you can stack on it is wasted. Suggestion: Use it on targets that just had their turns, to give advantage for as long as possible. Use anything possible to stack damage in between your turn and the target's turn.
I have a Tabaxi BH DEX based Order of the Lycan in a magic-lite survival style campaign. When I’m transformed my bonus action is way spoken for, but at range when I’m shooting my longbow with SS it is very open and I don’t really have a good way to get advantage otherwise. I really love the Gloomstalker for the character concept I have but I think I might go Arcane Archer, and get Quick Toss with the fighting style. Reflavoring Grasping Arrow to be like spikes of blood or something also just gets me all hot and bothered.
Hello Treantmonk, great video and topic! I was a little surprised you didn't cover the Weighted Net. You know, to get a higher escape DC. Formula: Base DC 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Strength Bonus. Thanks Treantmonk you have a wonderful day!
@@TreantmonksTemple There so many hidden, secret or just plain unheard of weapons in D&D 5e. The Frost Giant gets a weighted net. I reversed engineered the Formula. If you Google weighted net, one of the top searches should be a PDF on the Frost Giant. Can't remember which adventure it's out of. I asked AJ Pickett to do a exotic weapon & armor video, we will see, lol. Thanks for responding, I was hoping you would see my comment, have a wonderful day!
I'm playing an artificer and after a long time trying to figure out how to use the net effectively, I give up and just talked with my DM and he agreed to let me use it with the catapult spell to get a greater range, it still does not deal damage but the target gets restrained, I'm going to overcome the damage part by using the returning weapon infusion in conjunction with my aarakocra that can just fly and drop them.
But catapult should do damage if it hits as part of the spell independent of what the object being catapulted can do. Also if your net magically returns to your hand after throwing it how would the target remain restrained?
@@wyattweber9983 That was the trade off, it could do damage but it does not restrain the target, I'm favoring it as a net launcher with an automatic winch.
variant human rogue w/ crossbow expert can come online at lvl 3 pretty easily with swashbuckler. Probably not the best damage output but could be a very fun character concept, take the entertainer/gladiator background for some fun flavour
I see this and a lot of what I'm seeing is "by yourself" calculations, but you touched on something really important that I think you should have expanded on when you mentioned the spells. Depending on how the initiative numbers came through, how happy is that Fighter or spell-caster going to be when *you* hit them with the net before *their* attack? And how many allies could potentially go between your turn and the target's turn? Sure, you're giving up one of your own attacks and lowering your own damage per round, but you're giving a potentially tremendous boost to the whole rest of your party. There's no way to really quantify that with numbers because of the significant variation but I *do* think it's an important aspect that really should have been discussed more in terms of the overall pros and cons.
If a character in my campaign wanted to use a net, I would homebrew nets without pluses to hit and damage, but pluses to AC and DC checks in multiples of 2. Instead of +1 to hit and damage, it would be +2 to AC of the net and +2 to DC for escape attempts. +2 would translate to +4, and +3 would translate to +6 to AC and DC.
Part of the analysis of the net is, building a character for it. But the other part of the analysis is, when to use one when you *didn't* build for it. A net is cheap and light as anything, and there are circumstances when it's a good idea. Example: party of 4 lvl 1s vs uninjured, hexed bugbear inside a fog cloud. Which is not all that hard to imagine. Sure beats firebolt there.
Throw on a Warlock Hex and give the enemy disadvantage on Str checks. An expensive spell slot to use but depending an initiative order could be a quick kill.
Nets are best employed in groups. If three kobolds, goblins or whatever net you then you can only get out of one net at a time. Pack Tactics solved the five foot disadvantage problem. And personally I don't see using your advantage to cancel a disadvantage as losing it but using it to cancel a bed affect I was about to suffer. By the way, the odds of rolling a 1 on a d20 twice in a row is 1/400 (according to a few internet answers).
the requirement for sneak attack is to hit, not that it deals damage! I have looked at all the errata, and there is none, so RAW you can sneak attack with a net. I also looked at sneak attack using the same damage type it is never stated exactly what damage type it is. it is only assumed. I believe RAW a net would work, dealing extra untyped damage.
I wish you had addressed whether it makes sense for a character that _wasn't_ specifically built around the net to use one. For example, most archers will take Sharpshooter, so when does it make sense for _them_ to use their action to throw a net instead of just shooting arrows?
A zoom class of my Collegue that will assure me a future: Man, so boring, zzz
A 25 minute video of treantmonk talking bout Freaking Nets: lets fucking go!
But what if your future assuredly involves D&D? :D
I believe DndBeyond changed the damage "because programming". They didn't expect a weapon to do NULL damage (in programming's term). Null is equivalent to nothing, void etc. Adding a null possibility would probably incur a lof of changes in their codeand they probably don't have time to redesign everything related to weapon damage just for the net that no one uses anyway.
they could program negative damage
Late reply I know, but I'm a senior software developer and this example is why I really hate that DnD is moving to virtual stuff.
Programming is fun for me personally, but it really sucks for story telling. The exact thing you mentioned is why. With DnD, you can do whatever you imagine. But with programming, doing something as simple as giving a net no damage could cost $10k in developers salary.
It's simply not what you want if you want to let your imagination guide you and find the story as you can.
Check out this: Beast Master ranger (with Tasha's beast) and Crossbow Expert. You can use your net with an attack action against adjacent foe (without disadvantage due to the feat). We can't attack the second time, but we didn't lose this extra attack, we just couldn't use it to actually attack. So we use this attack to command your beast instead and with BA we are attacking with advantage (again - feat). Next our beast get an attack with advantage too. I don't think that this build is particularly powerful but I just can't stop enjoying how nicely everything here works together
It even works nicely thematically, because if you’re an “animal hunter,” of course you’re going to be using nets all the time.
You still need sharpshooter to throw the net without disadvantage
@@UEGDonkey nope, CBE is enough if you do it at point blank distance
@@Quintal100kg fair enough
Gloom Stalker is straight stronger
Funny you brought up the net, because my last session as a barbarian I had an excellent net-related opportunity to shine.
An Ettin was being a major threat, but an easy target and I was almost down. I had to do something to stop it from rampaging through my allies at any cost. I did have Tavern Brawler and could have grappled, but I knew it had multiattack and it wouldn't need more than one hit to down me and move on to my allies. I realised I had the net, threw it and hit (I had both advantage and disadvantage from circumstances, so it was pretty likely. Like I said, easy target). The practical upshot I figured was that The Ettin now couldn't both down me and attack an ally. Worth an action, because I had several allies who could clean up if I could just buy time.
What happened next is that when it chose to try and cut its way out of the net, the disadvantage caused it to fail, and when it tried to attack me after that, the disadvantage caused it to fail again. It then got even better as my allies turned on it, and the advantage on attacks got us to score two hits that otherwise would've missed, for way more damage I could have done myself.
I wouldn't recommend building a whole character around the net, but a net and a little luck can really come in clutch and turn the tide as an additional option. Also excellent for chase scenes. It's also a means by which you could actually flee combat in an "infinite white room scenario" against opponents with equal speed, by preparing an action to throw the net between turns, restrain them and dash away to get a headstart. Regular dash/disengage actions will always have them catch up, but the net won't.
The value of the net also goes up the more allies you have. From this moment forward, my necromancer is going to have a couple of the skeleton horde be armed with nets for extra synergy!
Restraining a boss with a net that can not slash open the net, lets you trade your action to stop his entire action, NETTING your party essentially a free turn.
Nice.
That's how I use the Irresistible dance.
Sure, you'll make the save, but you have to waste your action to do so.
The Paladin and the Rogue needed the extra turn to maul on you.
@@WexMajor82 does the dance get the nets abilities or is it restricted to the monster card it gets, just cause its a net doesnt mean it gains the restrain ability of the net since its not just a net anymore its a monster with a stat card which doesnt list the net's ability, neat idea, can you show me where it says the object retains its base property? cause a net also has an ac of 10 and a hp of 5 which it would adopt aswell...
@@CrashCraftLabs They are saying that they use the spell Otto's Irresistible Dance to a similar effect of wasting an enemy's attack, not that they are making the net into a creature.
@@devin5201 my bad i thought they were talking about the bards creation dance thats my fault
Net needs more love. My DM has given me barbed nets that deal 1d2 piercing damage. He also allows me to use a Net with the Catapult spell. That was a fun way to stop a flying creature!
Using Catapult spell is one of my favorite ways to bring down flyers! 3d8 + fall DMG. Chef's kiss
Net works particularly well with rogue when paired with crossbow expert, sharpshooter, and 1 lvl of fighter (for archery and net proficiency).
With this combo you use your action to throw your net, and crossbow expert allows you to fire your hand crossbow afterwards as a bonus action. Since the creature gets restrained upon a hit with a net, you gain advantage with your bonus action and thereby get your sneak attack as well. This can be done from 15 ft away per the sharpshooter feat(well out of a medium or large creature's reach) and allows you to effectively crowd control them whilst benefiting from all of the standard rogue features, and potentially sharpshooter damage depending on their armor.
Not only this, but if you have even one other party member with sharpshooter or great weapon master, you can effectively provide them permanent advantage to get their +10 on each attack, while potentially keeping 1 enemy permanently crowd controlled.
This combo can come online as soon as lvl 5 with variant human.
At 10:10 you miss the most obvious way to use your reaction to throw the net, and that's as a readied attack. Just state "if the enemy moves to a space 5 feet from me I throw my net on it," now when the enemy advances your reaction throws the net. This has the risk that they'll then use their action that turn to attempt to free themselves from the net, but the benefit is very real that they've now wasted their entire turn dealing with your net, and if they don't get out, and remember that even though that AC of 10 is low they are still at disadvantage for any attacks they make including attacks made towards the net, then they are restrained at least until their next turn.
Honestly the whole net issue could be fixed by 1) rule that the net can be used as a melee weapon, because it can, it's a silly restriction to make it only ranged, it would certainly be as easy to use in melee than it would be to toss at someone from any distance, and 2) allow strength to be used since nets are weighted they are actually pretty difficult to just toss around. 3) increase the nets AC to 12, it's hit points to 10, and the strength check to escape a 14 for the entrapped creature while remaining 10 for a creature to assist a trapped creature. This way it's easier to help someone out of a net than it is to help yourself out of one. Finally, remove the silly requirement that you cannot make extra attacks after tossing a net. That was just needlessly punitive and shows that the net was likely designed early in a more simulationist draft of the rules and then retained those simulationist rules even as the rest of the game became more abstract.
One more rule that I might consider for the bet is that armor is ineffective against it. Plate armor shouldn't help against a net, it should probably make things worse because it has all these places the net can catch on to further restrain the defender, so perhaps you could either say that attacks against heavily armored targets have advantage, which would be huge for the net's functionality, or that the only bonus to AC a target can get is from their Dex, not their armor, which would also be a big win.
The bottom line though to all this ranting is that the net doesn't do anything useful in it's current state, but it is a fun tactical idea that was just not implemented in a way that makes it useful. What we should be doing is trying to make combat more interesting through these kinds of special weapons, not introducing awesome special weapons that are so punishing to use that everyone just avoids them.
I think your ideas are sound, especially for a two weapon style of fighter. The classic Retiarius net and trident used his net defensively to deflect attacks or ensnare weapons as well as to throw on a bonus attack to restrain opponents.
Feels like at that point you could just change the net from being a weapon and make it an item that works like a spell. Give it a 1 Action use and a dex save. Not entirely unlike caltrops, ball bearings, Holy Water, Acid and other items that are not on the weapon list.
This video got me excited about the net. Not for a PC build, but to use as a DM. Throw a couple of kobold “trappers” (pack tactics baby!) with nets as part of a bigger encounter, and it would make for a very fun and different type of fight.
It is pretty efficient to throw a net with the extra attack action from haste since that is always a single attack anyway, you can then continue with a normal attack action or dex based spell.
A friend of mine ran one of those net builds pre gloomstalker. He also ran a dual wielding lancer paladin and an illusionist wizard up to tier 4. Fun guy, I think he is exactly who that net mechanic is for. For him so much of the fun of the game was in that creative act of exploit finding. He seemed to have fun showing off whatever creation he had come up with.
I wanted to share a few insights I've had while playing a net wielding Battle Master, recently. First, the disadvantage for attacking with a ranged weapon in melee is applied only if the target can see you. This makes the net substantially more effective when ambushing an opponent or in combination with the Invisibility spell. In both cases, you're turning an attack at Disadvantage into an attack with Advantage that can then grant Advantage on a substantial number of future attacks. The second insight is that the Interception fighting style synergizes well with a net fighter in that the target of your Reaction defense can be the net if it is targeted with a Slashing attack, especially if fighting a creature with a mix of damage types in their Multiattack action.
I feel like the "disadvantage at 5 feet" issue with a net was an oversight of the designers not understanding their own damn rules. No way did they intend it to ALWAYS be at disadvantage without feats or countering advantage.
I agree.
@@TreantmonksTemple I actually think the net is SUCH a strong weapon that I think it is not an oversight... but on purpose
I disagree. I think that's how you balance an absolute encounter changing level 1 ability
Restrained (no saving throw) on a hit seems pretty powerful even for an attack that does no damage and limits your ability to make second attacks. It would be a weapon of choice for martials level 1-4 and casters with a dip that gives them proficiency all the way up to 20 (get the mending cantrip, you'll need it). DId I mention no initial saving throw?
And if you are a caster with xbe and a dip in hexblade a net seems like a natural weapon for you.
@@Magnushamann but given that a battle master's trip attack is similar in function I wouldn't say it's broken. The trade off of not being able to perform any other attacks and needing martial weapon proficiency makes sense.
11:05 Clockwork Soul's Restore Balance
How about having a Bola weapon in the game.? That would have a greater range be a true ranged attack and they would be restrained and have to make a saving throw or go prone? I always love the idea behind a Bola.
Here's a pretty good house rule to make nets actually somewhat functional:
Nets are a martial *melee* weapon with the finesse and thrown (range 10/20) properties.
Nets have the special property that currently exists in the PHB, but strike out the "can only make one attack" restriction, and explicitly add the caveat, "When you hit an enemy with a net, it deals 0 weapon damage, and this attack cannot qualify for, and does not count towards, any effects that modify damage."
(Slightly awkward phrasing at the end there but the intent is that you won't be penalized for hitting an enemy with a net - e.g., it won't use up your sneak attack, nor a grave cleric's channel divinity or any generic "extra damage on the first time you hit with an attack on a turn" effects, because it won't count for those features in the first place.)
I always thought the ranges listed for using a net were ridiculous until I watched a video of a guy trying to net a crazy guy with a machete in a modern day setting. From about 5 feet away the guy with the net completely missed. Opened my eyes to the D&D range being reasonable. 😂
Machete dudes would be barbarian so unusually high AC due to Unarmored Defense.
There's a reason nets weren't common historical weapons
This was a great highlight of an underused weapon. I think that when we talk about whether a build is good or not, if we always go back to DPR, I think we're missing the point because then we should all just make echo knights with GWM. This goes back to the whole point of this channel: think of a concept that you think is fun (in this case using a net - like a gladiator type) and then make that the best character it could be for the game you're playing in. Not just get the most damage possible because where's the fun in that?
Hear hear!
Our Barbarian threw his net as a joke in Session 1 of our campaign and it was an absolute game changer. Instantly became a staple of our sessions. Massively underrated tool IMO
The Net seems best used when it complements the rest of a build, rather than having to build around it. A Dexterity-Based Battle Master Fighter would likely want the Archery Fighting Style, Sharpshooter, and Crossbow Expert regardless, so needing only one maneuver to make the Net work is a pretty good investment.
You’ve described my “Caveman” archer. Action Surge + Net + SS & Precision maneuver. It got nutty. The DM asked me to reroll in the middle of the campaign😅
My thoughts exactly. For 1 gp, having a net or two on my belt if I have a compatible build just makes sense, for those specific situations where it would be beneficial. While it is easy to escape a net, escaping always has action economy costs, and restrained is a very good condition to impose even for just for a turn or two before the target's initiative comes around again. Hell, even if I don't have a compatible build, I think it is worth carrying a net for the rare edge cases that might come up (for example, even at disadvantage, a melee martial readying an action to toss a net at a fast flyer who is ruining their day with flyby attacks might be well worth it. It could also be pretty hilarious, especially if said flyer happens to be sailing over a high drop or an environmental hazard when that net hits them and they start plummeting).
Looking at the net rules... do you think the devs knew that if they didn't want people to use a net, they could have just not printed rules for them in the first place?
This weapon might be one of the times it makes more sense for the DM than for the players to use a game feature. 🤷♂️
That was my thought the first time I read it! Who would ever use this?
Net: Instantly kills a creature without a printed stat block. Otherwise it has no ingame effect.
The net makes more sense as a trap than as a weapon. But they probably printed it up as a weapon because someone might want to use it as one.
@@godofzombi Perfect, that means nets can kill all DND gods as they do not have printed stat blocks. The ultimate weapon of deicide!
While a net might not be a good weapon, it can be a component in a trap if your players are fond of setting up ambushes(or if you want to shows your players what a couple of kobolds can do with it). There are other ways to use nets out of combat, like for carrying objects, making makeshift hammocks and (if it is the right kind of net) fishing.
I could imagine there being exotic or magic nets that could remove or subvert some of the base weapon's downsides. Like a 'net' made of heavy spiked chain that can be used as a flail in melee combat. Or, indeed, an animated net.
I created a net-using war cleric for a 5th level one-shot. So much fun! Once she had spirit guardians set up, the rest of the turns were about tossing the net + spiritual weapon strikes. Can't remember if I took both of the feats or just sharpshooter. I do remember taking the Mending cantrip to fix all my broken nets. Oh, and both the spiritual weapon and spirit guardians were in the forms of nets.
I called her Annie throughout the session because I was afraid they'd kick me out if they found out I named her Annette.
My net build.
3 battlemaster fighter. Archery fighting style. Precision attack, riposte, and quick toss maneuvers.
Crossbow expert feat, and eventually sentinel feat.
The rest of levels into rogue.
Fight side by side with your melee martials. Action to throw the net without disadvantage within 5ft of an enemy. If it misses, add precision attack die. Since you’ve attacked with a one handed weapon, utilize your hand crossbow. Pull out finesse weapon for chances to use your reaction to attack the creature. If it attacks the net to break it, the net isn’t you so sentinel reaction. If creature attacks your martial, martial isn’t you and you sentinel attack. If creature attacks you because you have less armor but still at disadvantage and misses, riposte. If it hits, uncanny dodge.
If you miss your initial net even with precision attack, quick toss for another chance.
It’s kind of like the mastermind, except your help action has the potential to miss OR be effective for multiple allies. It’s also kind of like a help action that actually helps casters.
I am currently playing an archery fighting style, gunner feat, war priest cleric/ranger. This is a great option I didn't consider. Great timing!
The big part is that gives advantage also to the rest of the party so the rogue can sneak attack or paladin hexblade can megasmite
"The Fire elemental engulfs your rope net in fire burning it for 39 points of damage and-"
"Not a scratch"
"The goblin weakly hits your net with it's scimitar."
"Nooo my one weakness!"
Now in stores: Nets! From the makers of True Strike (tm).
What about embracing the disadvantage and using the Lucky feat to turn disadvantage into "Super advantage"?
This is extremely effective on winged flying creatures if you ready an action to net them when they swoop within range as when restrained and reduced to 0 movement they drop out of the sky and take a little falling damage which also makes them prone.
I can see a Bladesinger using a net effectively.
We can get the net as our weapon proficiency and we're already build for dex.
Casting a non-attack cantrip like Toll the Dead or Minor Illusion on extra attack avoids the one attack per action restriction.
Bladesinger gets a melee weapon. Net's are ranged.
Seems I missed that.
Would have to get proficiency from race then. Elven or Dwarven Weapon Training with the new customization options seems like the best way.
If a Bladesinger with the Dual Wielder feat used threw a net with his bonus action, would that be effective? The proficiency clause does suck, but you might still be able to get away with it even though you aren’t adding your proficiency to the attack roll. Create Bonfire is a Dex save (and a fun Cantrip for battlefield control)
Imagine, net + whip (why not?) + Create Bonfire as your 6th level turn 1 action. Maybe they get out, but at the very least, they wasted their action
Unfortunately two weapon fighting only works with melee weapons.
Undead Warlock can impose the frightened condition with a net, as Form of Dread only requires an attack roll be made. This means the enemy has disadvantage on ability checks and therefore disadvantage to escape. Still trying to work out how this information is useful though!
Great video Tmonk!
I hadn't thought about that interaction, but you are definitely right that it would apply.
Or Hex for any warlock
A net is a consumable combat multiplier. There aren't very many of those in D&D when you really get down to it. And there are a lot of situations where you might be holding an action, like an attack, until something comes into range or is visible or something - you are only getting 1 attack in a situation like that, and a net might make a ton of sense there.
my favorite net build would be
Kobold Rogue with Crossbow Expert (Sharpshooter optional for extra damage)
1 level fighter or Fighter initiate feat for Archery
Stand next to friend when throwing net = advantage (cause no disadvantage within 5ft from crossbow expert)
you used your advantage action to restrain target
now you can bonus action Hand Crossbow the dude and all you friends will also have advantage, rinse and repeat for party wide advantage every round
my favorite in-the-moment use of a net ive seen, was a wizard saw an enemys dropped net, cast Catapult on it and directed it towards a flying enemy, hitting it and restraining it, causing it to fall to its death (We ruled afterwards that that was a "rule of cool" moment and that it woulnt be allowed as a "always works" strategy)
It's easy to miss this Treantmonk, but there is a 100% RAW solution in the PHB. It may not be intended, but the fact that the net has no effective range also seems unintended or they would have gave it a close range of 0ft, not 5ft and forget about range weapon disadvantage.
Under improvised weapons it says " If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, it also deals 1d4 damage". For a net, imagine it has heavy weights on it to attack with.
I think you still get to add proficiency bonus too since it says "Proficiency with a weapon allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for ANY attack you make with that weapon. If you make an attack roll using a weapon with which you lack proficiency, you do not add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll."
That doesn't even stop it from restraining since it says " A Large or smaller creature hit by a net is restrained until it is freed" It doesn't say it has to be a ranged attack.
In conclusion, you don't need to attack with disadvantage, you can deal 1d4 damage, and still add proficiency and the restrained condition by using a net in melee as an improvised weapon.
Interesting
Not sure this would work but... if you take the Tavern Brawler Feat it makes you proficient in improvised weapons. It says in the PHB that if you use a weapon in a way that it's not meant to be used (stabbing someone with an arrow) it's now an improvised weapon. Hitting someone with a net that is ment to be thrown (like stabbing with an arrow) means that you are now attacking with an improvised weapon & you are proficient with it. You can even get a bonus action grapple.
The qualifier that you can't use more than one attack with a net is bull, because it means you can't play a Retiarius (net and trident style gladiator) and be effective. What is wrong with giving up one attack for restrained and advantage on one attack anyway?
Just use the battlermaster with quick toss setup.
My guess is that the devs thought it was too overpowered and decided to balance it with a bunch of dumb restrictions.
Personally, ive used the net a few times, and in practice its worked like a charm.
At low levels against a tough enemy at least.
The 2 big advantages i found is; it gave advantage to the entire party at the cost of my action.
And it put the dm in a difficult position of deciding whether to sacrifice the creatures action to remove the net, or try attacking us with disadvantage. Remembering that if it hits, the creature is restrained and can only attempt an escape on their turn.
Also, effective if your in a situation where you are facing a flying foe.
You prepare an action, with the intention to throw the net when the creature comes in range for a swoop attack.
PHB beastmaster solves most of the net problems with just a normal ranged build. (Pet attack bypasses the restriction, archery fighting style, usually takes crossbow expert or sharpshooter) I also like how its thematic that the ranger in general is one of the easiest to use nets. I always take a net with my ranger even if I rarely use it. (same with wips) also the ranger has spells that could add to damage. ensnaring strike is a good spell(two sources of restrained not just one).
A kindve cool interaction, although I don't know if it's too useful, is that a ranger can use lightning arrow on the net to do some damage. A lenient DM might be convinced that when it turns back to normal the creature would be restrained.
A good technique for a Net is a held action. If you hold until the end of their turn, you can guarantee a full round of attacks and Dex saves from your allies (and yourself, because you will get another action before they go again) before they even get to try to free themselves. And then that might be all they can do that round.
When I make martial builds... I usually make net builds... I even make net builds on many of my casters if they can use weapons (now that many races can get weapon proficiencies).
Minor can make the Net viable!
Use Minor Illusion to temporarily block the target’s view of the thrower, and then throw the Net. If you are within 5 feet of the target, then you avoid Disadvantage.
I call this the “Matador Maneuver”.
Build 1:
• High Elf
• Minor Illusion Cantrip
• Battlemaster
• Elven Accuracy at Level 4
• Action = illusion of matador cape to block target’s view
• You automatically see through the illusion
• Elven Accuracy triggered because you now have Advantage on attack
• Bonus Action = Quick Toss with Net
• Action Surge = Attack with Rapier
• Extra Attack = Attack with Rapier
Build 2:
• Elf
• Sorcerer
• Bonus Action Quicken Minor Illusion to block view
• Action = Throw Net
Used a net with a hobgoblin wizard once. It was a better option than anticipated. DM did not want to "waste" actions removing it or destroying it when the creature could have been casting something, using another ability or even just because the creature lacked a slashing option to attack the net (and didn't want to forfeit 2 or more attacks to try to free itself). Hobgoblin's saving face ability made it a bit more reliable and it tended to see use along side my cantrips.
While my DM was quite generous I think this works with rules as written, tie a net around some vials of acid or alchemist’s fire (less than 5lbs. total) and then cast catapult on the net. The net is thrown by the spell and does 3d8 bludgeoning damage (which doesn’t destroy the net) plus the damage from the vials of acid or fire (which also don’t destroy the net) and you get the normal benefits of the net for restraining a target, and a bonus, the range is now 90’ ft. per the spell description. Now you could argue that since the net wasn’t thrown the “intended” way it shouldn’t have the effects of restraining the target, but no where in the description of the net does it mention how it should be thrown. I am aware that most casting classes don’t get proficiency with martial weapons but since we’re using a spell to throw it that isn’t explicitly required.
Now with this method in mind you could stuff the net with any number of items, caltrops, ball-bearings etc. and have other bonus effects.
Carry a bunch of nets on your belt as a high level Monster Slayer Ranger with the archery and throwing styles.
Using Slayer's Counter opens the possibility of using them as a reaction on the enemy's turn and having them be restrained for a full round of attacks and dex saves, and wastes their remaining movement for the current turn as well since their action is likely used up.
Perfect timing
I've been contemplating a kobold ranger. Beastmaster. Going for the classic wolfrider kind of vibe, and using lance & nets frequently. That removes disadvantage, so it is just a straight roll. Also, breaking free of the net still takes an action or an attack. At low level against a single powerful enemy, that is still 100% a viable strategy. When we have action economy advantage, 1 action to nullify an enemy's action is worth it. Also, a beastmaster ranger gets to weaponize their bonus action via their companion via bonus action. Additionally, the net says you can only make one attack if you could normally make multiple attacks, but nothing says you can't give up one of your normal attacks to your beast companion, then attack with your net. Finally, the target needs to deal SLASHING damage specifically to the net. Not fire damage, not necrotic damage, not radiant damage. Slashing damage. A creature with a mace is screwed, a creature with fangs is screwed, a creature with fists is screwed. Also technically you could deal damage with the net if you cast holy weapon upon it.
...and I typed that and you did cover most of that at the end, excellent. And yes, Kobold would already have advantage in general with pack tactics, but your allies don't benefit from pack tactics.
The net action is basically the “use an object” action instead of the “attack” action
Grab bag of net ideas here:
1. Ready. I think I’ll try “Readying” my attack with the net with the trigger/condition being when the my opponent attacks. Sure, they get to hit me first. But that way they’ve already used their action and probably won’t have a way to deal with the net before I take my next turn (with them Restrained).
2. Dread Ambusher seems good.
At the start of your first turn of each combat, your walking speed increases by 10 feet, which lasts until the end of that turn. If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type.
So attack with a shove, nock them prone, and for the additional weapon attack use the next.
…unless I’m getting something wrong here?
3. Poisoner Fear. Using poison on nets seems like it could open up some interesting possibilities.
So, a couple interesting options come to mind: if using a beastmaster, you can use Beast of the Land to charge and knock an enemy prone. This would give you advantage as long as you're within 5 ft. You can also use your bonus action and extra attack to command your beast to attack instead of attacking yourself. If you're using a kobold, you would also have advantage through pack tactics if the charge fails, or you could go with a small sized hexblood to hex the creature and give it disadvantage to str saves, making it more difficult for the creature to get out. Also, since you're small, you can ride your valiant stead into combat.
I've been toying with a Rogue build lately that has Crossbow Expert and uses a hand crossbow and a net. It nets in melee then shoots for a sneak attack. The only awkward thing is what subclass; Swashbuckler would be divine if point blank ranged attacks were considered melee attacks.
And thanks for mentioning the War Cleric route; that gives me a lot of ideas
A net throwing spell caster kind of sounds fun
This video is appreciated. I have been looking up videos about the net since my wife wanted to build a Gladiator with Trident and net. It's not always about the damage for us so we can play with it as story and now know we can have an artificer create a magic net for higher levels.
This was a very good video. I think one thing that wasn't brought up is that the advantage gotten from the net would apply to all members of the party that go before the creature can free itself. If you're doing a solo mission, it might not be quite as effective, but it might be very worth it for helping the rest of the party to attack the creature. I also wonder... if a creature didn't have slashing damage, you could have more than one character throw a net, and it could be game over.
Throw a net on every Large or smaller creature incapacitated by Hypnotic Pattern before you release them from the spell. Remember that the disadvantage from close range doesn’t apply on attacks against incapacitated enemies (as long as no alert enemies are next to you).
Maybe I didn't catch it, but there is an interesting interaction between using a net and the Catapult spell that makes it quite good for a 1st level spell slot. Since you hit creatures with the object that gets catapulted, rules as written the creature should be restrained.
I'm not sure I agree that's supported by RAW, since catapult never says the object "hits" a creature.
I guess it would be up to the DM to determine if the net would survive the ordeal, taking 3d8 bludgeoning damage. It would probably assume the net vas vulnerable to slashing damage with at least 10 hp - and perhaps have bludgeoning resistance. The wording «hits» and «strikes» is not the same?
The funny thing is if it wasn't listed as a ranged weapon it wouldn't have any of it's issues.
Like seriously,
I'm so surprised this is a ranged weapon and not a thrown one.
Thank you for saying what I was thinking.
Do you think this was balanced this way on purpose or was this an accidental printing?
@@matthewpownall1196 My bet is an accident.
Well to be fair its not a melee weapon, so it cant be a melee weapon with the thrown property. And if its not melee its ranged. Darts are also ranged even though they are just thrown.
@@toufexisk All thrown weapons except the net and darts are melee weapons with the thrown property.
And the darts don't have a short range of 5ft.
I have an idea for overcoming a limitation of the net. In combat and even before combat starts, you can ready an action and set the trigger and that trigger can happen, even if it's not on your turn. So if you're in a situation where combat could be imminent, you could ready to throw your net at the nearest enemy that comes within 15ft of you. So even if you just happen to be at the very bottom of the initiative order, you can still throw the net and possibly prevent that creature from making an attack on you. So while it may kinda suck using the net as your action on your turn, its probably great for a prepared action at the start of combat. I suspect this may also work for True Strike if its readied before combat starts so that way you don't need to waste your turn.
You could use a net in melee range as an improvised weapon like using a bow for a melee weapon attack.
Melee Attack doesn't need a Melee Weapon as your hands are not Melee Weapons but it still count as Melee Attack
I appreciate the Net for giving us a non-lethal control option; anything that inspired alternate victory conditions in this game is welcome; if we want less murder hoboes, then we need ways of rewarding people for not being one. That said, my favorite method of employing the Net is at the end of a Catapult spell. I obviate most of the drawbacks of the net, adding in bludgeoning damage and range. I have less ways of stacking damage after that point, or making their saves any more difficult, but I've forced the enemy to consider their next move, which is priceless.
The net is good in the hands of whoever already has the action economy advantage. PCs against a boss monster? Fair use. PCs against a horde? Bad use.
Monster horde against a PC? Deadly use. The best users of a net in my opinion are hordes of enemies (goblins, drow, kobolds w/ pact tactics, orcs, etc)
Hordes using ranged attacks that have a disengage feature for when the players close the distance. Double trouble in a dungeon with murder holes and a maze of closeable doors.
That echo knight build is gonna be my next character for sure
Adding this late- nets are surprisingly good in high levels against bosses who trade out condition resistance (like against restrained) for Legendary Resistances. LR's simply don't apply, as there's no saving throw. There's no counterspell. And at those levels, where enemies might have a big spell they're not in position for, then you buy your party a round. A shame that there's no interaction between the restrained condition and somatic components, but with archery and stupid high attack rolls + adv, you're unironically a big help with the net. Source: Icewind Dale. That demilich had a massive minus to STR lol.
Does hard fail against teleporters tho.
I know that non-lethal (or even non-violent) combat resolutions are very seldom needed in most types of adventures, but the net could really shine there. A chance to apply the Restrained condition without using any resources? Yes, please.
Or use the lucky feat. Turn the disadvantage into advantage!
if you wanna have a similar ability to restrain someone but as a melee fighter you can attack with grappling strike manuever then use the shove action as your second attack. now you have a prone and grappled (basically restrained) target and they have to kill you or escape your grapple. Barb reccomended for being beefier and harder to escape
I think my next martial character will consider it, beast master ranger sounds good, but so does Battlesmith for enchanting it, using intelligence to hit, and having a pet already!
Eldritch Knight, War Magic. Cast a cantrip, get a bonus action attack. If you’re using a shield just drop your weapon, object interaction to pull out the net and toss it. So what happens if an enemy picks up your weapon while it’s on the ground? Bonus Action Weapon Bond to bring it back to your hand next turn. Definitely not an “every round” tactic but if your target is really slippery or if you know your Wizard is going to Disintegrate, it could really be worth it. And it costs no resources to do.
AND you could have your familiar Help on the target you want to counter the disadvantage. You don’t have to attack the same target as your Cantrip, so you can save the Help action’s effect for the Net attack. No feats required, but does take some work to set up.
There is a nifty spell called Catapult. You launch an item at something else, such as, say, a net, AND deal 3d8 bludgeoning damage to both targets. Granted, it deals damage to the net, but the net specifically says slashing damage, so it would be up to the DM.
Funny this came up. My next build plan is similar to the battlemaster/gloomstalker build Chris presented with a couple differences.
Level 1 - Custom Lineage with Piercer Dex 18
Level 4 - Crossbow Expert
Level 6 - Sharpshooter
Level 10 - (Level 4 Gloom) 20 Dex
Level 12 - (Level 8 BattleMaster) Resilient Wisdom
I wanted this build because it utilizes two underused weapons, the Heavy Crossbow and the net. With Piercer and a d10 weapon it ups the damage a bit.
I made myself a net fighter build and tried it out last night. (Level 5. All fighter) and I have to say I love it. Mainly because it's weird rules and weaponising jank is the only way for me to enjoy theory crafting builds. But I have to say it felt super great being able to chuck a net on a bad guy and then let my party beat their ass. Especially since I got a wizard with baby strength who failed his first escape attempt.
I am curios if the gathered swarm ability of Swarmkeeper ranger could count as damage with a net.
Probably since it isn't extra damage
I assume it would function normally since the Swarmkeeper's Gathered Swarm damage is a separate instance of damage, not a modifier.
Simple fix, +5 to min and max range (10/20ft range). Use polearm master to trigger the net throw as they get in range. Have a dex saving throw as an aoe effect, to slash or str check to break your way out over multiple turns, so a small creature could escape in one turn cutting with a dagger, medium or large take 2 and 3 turns respectively to cut through, without aid. Leaving the net destroyed. Even adding resistance to slashing damage made by restrained targets, due to limited movement.
Should covering someone with the net using a Sleight of Hand check also impose the Restrained condition? If so I will make a Thief Rogue with Fisherman Background, using a Net and Fishing Rod(reskinned whip) as weapons. hahahah
Using Tasha options, I'm playing hobgoblin clockwork soul with net proficiency and it's great! On nearby creature (even ones that fly) I throw net, use restore balance to negate disadvantage, then either quicken a spell (like say mind whip if the creature has multi attack) or I just let my melee friends gang up on it. I netted a Mage once and quickened fog cloud so it couldn't misty step out or cast any spells relying on sight. My Martials easily dispatched the poor guy in one round
The monk's Deflect Missiles ability could potentially throw a net, as long as it's a "missile" and small enough to hold in one hand. Of course you have to be attacked with a net :P
Sorry for comenting on a 2 year old video, but i just wanted to point out that, for some builds, it is very easy to accomodate the net. I’m rolling up a level 8 Battle Master, the old Vhuman Xbow expert Sharpshooter, and since i already had the feats to shoot without Disadvantage, i only needed to give up one maneuver for quick toss, and now the net is another tool in my package.
Me: sees the net weapon, "thats basically useless..."
Treant: but did you think of this?
Might work pretty well with someone who is mainly a rogue and crossbow expert. You'd need to multiclass for the proficiency, but the opportunity cost of using one once you have it is pretty low. Advantage vs 2 attacks isn't as good but since most of your damage is from the sneak attack its close, and the target is restrained for when the great weapon master shows up a second later.
I played a short 13th Age campaign where the first thing I did with my Paladin's starting gold was buy like 20 nets. I didn't do any optimization, and I don't believe it was anywhere close to the most effective thing I could have done (it didn't feel amazingly reliable or impactful at any point), but it was a cool aesthetic to work with and it wasn't so weak that I ever dropped the tactic.
I do kind of want to see about making a Retiarius subclass for the Fighter based around removing all the inconveniences of net use (ie stuff like removing the action restrictions on its use and the pervasive disadvantage, and improving the strength check to scale with your proficiency bonus) and, I dunno, making tridents and aquatic combat more effective.
Didn't realize net used Dex rather than str till today, shame as I figured it might benefit some are builds!
There's one more way to cancel the net's disadvantage that you haven't mentioned. If a creature is prone, attacks within 5 feet have advantage. It makes sense in a realistic way - if a creature is on the ground, it should be easier to drop a net on it. I do like how a net can be used to give certain builds a damage boost, but most people play in a party. Nets are a great way for a more utility-focused character to set up their teammates to do massive damage. And as War Cleric, I could use my +10 to attack Channel Divinity to increase one ally's attack roll. Or, I could use it to toss a net, using that CD to give advantage to my entire party until the creature's next turn.
the reason D&D beyond lists it as bludgeoning is because D&Dbeyond uses templates for listing items, so that they can be added to your sheet in the proper cathegory, a similar situation happened with the storm boomerang magic item, where they needed to code in a "base boomeran" weapon, and then add the magic item on top, but in the process creating a vaguely official mundane boomerang
Clocklock works well with net. You can use your ability to neutralize the disadvantage then quicken something with a dex save or hex their strength. Or just let your buddies pile in. Especially good against Mindflayers!
Question: Net traps are something that exist in D&D. Other than it isn't explicitly adjudicated in the rules, what would happen if you dropped a net on someone from above. Either an ambush, telekinesis spell, Psi Warrior Telekinetic Movement, Unseen Servant, Mage Hand.... Dropping something from above isn't necessarily an attack, but people have been pouring vials of acid or dropping flasks of alchemists fire for 6 years...
Regarding the bonus action triggering from an attack action: I vaguely remember you having to finish your action, so doing all attacks of the attack action, before you are allowed to do the bonus action. I might be wrong here tho.
So i have a conclusion on the net, and a question.
Q: Can you do an improvised weapon attack with the net, using it as melee weapon, thus skipping the disadvantage on 5ft ranged weapons but dropping proficiency (unless you're proficient with improvised).
Conclusion:
- A net is a one handed martial ranged weapon, and as such uses DEX.
- Its short range is 5ft which implies disadvantage from its ranged property. Its long range is 15ft, which implies disadvantage too.
- Sharpshooter can negate the long range disadvantage and Crossbow Expert can negate the short range disadvantage. Advantage also can negate a disadvantage, but it can also stack with those two feats.
- You sacrifice all weapon attacks of one attack action to throw a net. But you can still do other action types, even if those are weapon attacks.
- While it is easy to get free from a net, it guarantees crits on all attacks until the target gets free and it can only get free during its turn or that of its allies, at the cost of an action.
- The net has no associated damage type, so all damage you can stack on it is wasted.
Suggestion: Use it on targets that just had their turns, to give advantage for as long as possible. Use anything possible to stack damage in between your turn and the target's turn.
Treant, correction. Ammunition weapons mostly use dexterity. Thrown weapons use strength, unless they have the finesse property, like a dagger.
I have a Tabaxi BH DEX based Order of the Lycan in a magic-lite survival style campaign. When I’m transformed my bonus action is way spoken for, but at range when I’m shooting my longbow with SS it is very open and I don’t really have a good way to get advantage otherwise.
I really love the Gloomstalker for the character concept I have but I think I might go Arcane Archer, and get Quick Toss with the fighting style. Reflavoring Grasping Arrow to be like spikes of blood or something also just gets me all hot and bothered.
Hello Treantmonk, great video and topic! I was a little surprised you didn't cover the Weighted Net. You know, to get a higher escape DC.
Formula: Base DC 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Strength Bonus.
Thanks Treantmonk you have a wonderful day!
Where is the weighted net from? I've never heard of it.
@@TreantmonksTemple There so many hidden, secret or just plain unheard of weapons in D&D 5e. The Frost Giant gets a weighted net. I reversed engineered the Formula. If you Google weighted net, one of the top searches should be a PDF on the Frost Giant. Can't remember which adventure it's out of. I asked AJ Pickett to do a exotic weapon & armor video, we will see, lol.
Thanks for responding, I was hoping you would see my comment, have a wonderful day!
I'm playing an artificer and after a long time trying to figure out how to use the net effectively, I give up and just talked with my DM and he agreed to let me use it with the catapult spell to get a greater range, it still does not deal damage but the target gets restrained, I'm going to overcome the damage part by using the returning weapon infusion in conjunction with my aarakocra that can just fly and drop them.
But catapult should do damage if it hits as part of the spell independent of what the object being catapulted can do. Also if your net magically returns to your hand after throwing it how would the target remain restrained?
@@wyattweber9983 That was the trade off, it could do damage but it does not restrain the target, I'm favoring it as a net launcher with an automatic winch.
variant human rogue w/ crossbow expert can come online at lvl 3 pretty easily with swashbuckler. Probably not the best damage output but could be a very fun character concept, take the entertainer/gladiator background for some fun flavour
I see this and a lot of what I'm seeing is "by yourself" calculations, but you touched on something really important that I think you should have expanded on when you mentioned the spells.
Depending on how the initiative numbers came through, how happy is that Fighter or spell-caster going to be when *you* hit them with the net before *their* attack? And how many allies could potentially go between your turn and the target's turn? Sure, you're giving up one of your own attacks and lowering your own damage per round, but you're giving a potentially tremendous boost to the whole rest of your party. There's no way to really quantify that with numbers because of the significant variation but I *do* think it's an important aspect that really should have been discussed more in terms of the overall pros and cons.
If a character in my campaign wanted to use a net, I would homebrew nets without pluses to hit and damage, but pluses to AC and DC checks in multiples of 2. Instead of +1 to hit and damage, it would be +2 to AC of the net and +2 to DC for escape attempts. +2 would translate to +4, and +3 would translate to +6 to AC and DC.
Part of the analysis of the net is, building a character for it. But the other part of the analysis is, when to use one when you *didn't* build for it. A net is cheap and light as anything, and there are circumstances when it's a good idea. Example: party of 4 lvl 1s vs uninjured, hexed bugbear inside a fog cloud. Which is not all that hard to imagine. Sure beats firebolt there.
Throw on a Warlock Hex and give the enemy disadvantage on Str checks. An expensive spell slot to use but depending an initiative order could be a quick kill.
Nets are best employed in groups. If three kobolds, goblins or whatever net you then you can only get out of one net at a time. Pack Tactics solved the five foot disadvantage problem. And personally I don't see using your advantage to cancel a disadvantage as losing it but using it to cancel a bed affect I was about to suffer. By the way, the odds of rolling a 1 on a d20 twice in a row is 1/400 (according to a few internet answers).
the requirement for sneak attack is to hit, not that it deals damage! I have looked at all the errata, and there is none, so RAW you can sneak attack with a net. I also looked at sneak attack using the same damage type it is never stated exactly what damage type it is. it is only assumed. I believe RAW a net would work, dealing extra untyped damage.
My understanding with extra attack is that you cannot use bonus action between attack, only movement and free action or possibly item interactions.
I wish you had addressed whether it makes sense for a character that _wasn't_ specifically built around the net to use one. For example, most archers will take Sharpshooter, so when does it make sense for _them_ to use their action to throw a net instead of just shooting arrows?