#FEMINIST
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- Опубліковано 24 кві 2019
- Taking center stage, prominent feminists Roxane Gay and Christina Hoff Sommers attempt to ignite in an authentic discussion about the ideological differences surrounding modern feminism. The intellectual giants converse on topics ranging from social inequality, rape culture, #MeTooMovement, and more.
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NEW VIDEO with Christina Hoff Sommers: ua-cam.com/video/v70RdRlhVK0/v-deo.html
The Unfortunate Truth About Feminism.
Roxanne "Who cares what the reasons are, there is a pay gap"
There you have it folks, Roxanne doesn't care about the nuances or variables in explaining a phenomenon. She works backwards and has made her conclusion first and looks for ways to maintain that conclusion.
Women spend more than they collectively earn, again 'who cares'.
The ant-capitalist sentiment really concerns me... it points to an illogical lack of gratitude for what our technological progress has achieved. The pay gap could be engineered to be equal, which is known as "equality of outcome" (and previously known as affirmative action) which ignores the merits of competence and creativity which is the cornerstone of our success.
I found her position completely contradictory - arguing for a nuanced approach to certain inconvenient issues and a shotgun approach to the rest. Her manner throughout was thoroughly disrespectful towards the other participants. She was on the stage, but completely disengaged from any input that wasn't coming out of her own mouth.
Women are also net tax-dollar consumers yet the majority of voters. We're all fucked
and yet talks about needing more nuance at least twice 😂
Had a friend attend this event and do the meet and greet with the two after the show. She liked both Roxane and Christina equally but couldn't help observe how the two interacted with their fans. Their behavior was quite telling.
Christina made an appearance straight after the event, albeit nervous. The hostility she faced from the audience during the show was toxic and vile. Roxane Gay was absent from the meet and greet for about 10 minutes into it. There was a table setup for Roxane and out of the blue, she comes in, sits down and proceeds to sign her pile of books and gets selfies taken with her modest line of fans. She does not, however, allow any real conversation to happen beyond small talk. My friend tried to ask her a question and was shut down with a terse reply. Once the line was exhausted, in spite of the room still being full of people, Roxane left immediately.
Christina, on the other hand, engaged with everyone who approached her, talking for the entire time of the meet and greet, right up until they had to close the venue. She was polite and respectful to everyone, even to those who seemed ideologically possessed by Roxane's rhetoric and in turn, skeptical of Christina. Some of the questions she was asked were challenging and yet still she held her ground.
My friend commented that she felt Roxane only wanted to push her views out but didn't want anyone to question them, given the impersonal nature of how she mixed with her admirers. On the other hand, she developed a new found respect for Christina. Suffice to say, she said she woke up on the following morning and threw out her copy of Roxane's book in the rubbish bin (which was signed btw) without reading it.
Wow... You described a very revealing situation! A fanatic guru who is happy with her blind following, and the power she has thru social media...so personal interaction is not relevant to Roxane apparently! So sad! Nice attempt, "@This Is 42" - only you should have been more dutiful in advising the crowd to not jeer.....however Roxane was relishing leading them on... "Hating men is perfectly reasonable".... Sigh....
IDK... maybe roxanne had a place to go and elizabeth didn't. I think you're reading to much into it.
@@jorgepacheco9845 for such an important event? She was enjoying her blind hatred, as she herself said she saw nothing wrong with it... 'Pathologically ideologically-possessed' This is how 'normap.people were turned into murderous Nazis and silent nazi supporters!
You described the difference between a genuine person and a bullshitter. Exactly as expected.
@Peter Guillam
Whatever her reasons may be for what she did I think Roxane did a good thing there even if it was unintentional.
P.S. It exposed Roxanne as a person to his friend which is good. Apparently some couldn't understand what I wrote in the first sentence of this comment, so adding a post script.
Roxanne's statement that women don't go into petroleum engineering because of misogyny is absolutely ludicrous.
Agree. Women can pick Amy major they want. They chose the helping people fields. I did very well in math in school, exempted out of having to take it in college. Had my guidance counselor and a few teachers tell me not to pursue social work...go into something with math. And at 17 years old I told them I wanted to help people. I had every opportunity to go into a STEM field.....I chose not to (and I was in college in the early 90s, girls are likely even more encouraged today).
I can appreciate that for the few women who do choose to go into that field of study, it might be intimidating to feel so outnumbered by men, however that’s not the same as being preventing from pursuing that area of study.
NYKYDUB I’m sure men get intimidated at times in their programs if study. I’m sure the first black person at an all white school was intimidated. Sometimes you have to deal with life. Isn’t it more discriminating to have to hold women’s hands and constantly encourage them....”you can do math and scientific too,” etc. Feminist say “we’re equal.” But that’s the lie. More boys/men do the hard sciences...it’s no equal no matter how many intervention programs they try to get women into STEM. You can encourage girls all you want, but studies show in even the most “equal” countries, women tend to gravitate towards the more feminine majors. Sometimes it seems like feminist want women to become men. Men are not holding women back....women have autonomy and they chose differently. It’s not a conspiracy.
Anne B I agree. I’m not suggesting that there’s a conspiracy, or that the odds are stacked against women. I was just trying to work out how, having gotten into that field of study (despite being black AND female), Gay could still have the view that some sort of patriarchy was trying to keep her down. The only thing I could think of was that it might have felt a bit uncomfortable being in a male dominated space, and she needed to attribute blame for that feeling. So the obvious conclusion is that it’s the men’s fault for creating a mysoginistic (in her mind) environment.
FaithfulBM True AND she never said she was in any way mistreated while pursuing (or after) her PhD.
I was there. Christina was wonderful. Roxane and her fans were vile.
@DarthYuYevon She wasn't on great form but then again it must be pretty tough to get your point across whilst you're being heckled non-stop by ideologues who won't even do you the common courtesy of listening to your points quietly and respectfully...
@DarthYuYevon Jordan Peterson might have to find a whaling ship first.
@@chrisfisher6529😂
Thank you. I wish I had been. What an embarrassment for all free-thinking and intelligent Australian women. What is going on in our universities these days? It can't be all universities and all faculties, my 24yr old has just graduated and she's not brainwashed like this.
@DarthYuYevon goes to prove you need to do your homework and have a quick reply. Milo was needed here who is quicker on his feet then Christina
Christina yet again shows us how to be the adult in the room.
mavishill But that is what SJW always do. You point out facts that disagree with their stance, you are racist, sexist, etc. And the cheers she gets is very disheartening. People are brainwashed. What happened to listening to arguments, hearing facts, making informed decisions?
Lol she couldn't even put her arguments forward without stumbling and struggling.
Is she the only feminist who acts adult?
ANYBODY WITH A BIT OF COMMON SENSE WILL AGREE WITH HER,I MEAN CHRISTINA, A VERY SMART AND HONEST WOMAN.
@@MadamoftheCatHouse In todays feminism? YES.
Praise be to Christina. Such a lady, so gracious, rational and extremely intelligent. The audience were insane Roxanne 'fans', but this recording shows Ms Hoff Sommers made an absolute fool of Gay.
Haha you already know how Roxanne is going to answer before she answers...a true ideologue, whose incapable of synthesizing independent thought with her own experience.
This "debate" with the common sense person being boo'd and the radical is rapturously applaused shows everything wrong with crazy feminism.
It's so obvious Roxanne got her fans to join
It's a shame. I was in class with her as an undergrad and she was intelligent and didn't seems anywhere near as ideologically possessed. Of course, she also had a Norwegian accent back then... Coincidence?
I can't imagine she has any experience in being sexually harassed. Ironically probably why she is an angry feminist.
@@greengo9 If I remember correctly, she was sexually assaulted at a young age, which probably has something to do with it. Still, there are more healthy worldviews in my opinion.
@Twenty Faces incorrect. Christina sited facts, statistics and spoke out against what the crowd wanted to hear.
The audience was so mean spirited to Christina i felt sad for her.
This audience of WOMEN mistreating another WOMAN they’ve probably never met call themselves feminists?
I do not know the work of either one of these women. However I could not help but notice that Roxanne had a chip on her shoulder from the start.
The ALL WOMAN audience felt comfortable applauding passive-aggressive disrespect toward this other woman for no obvious reason to deserve it .
Perhaps there is a history here however this was uncomfortable to watch.
@@janicedevereux2839 Agreed.
I didn’t feel bad at all for Christina. The reason is , the audience thought that they approve their point of view , they thought they thought something to Christina. But , the reality is ; they just approved what feminism became these days and made Christina shine ✨
Christina was amazingly calm during this abject abuse.
She stumbles over her words a lot on a good day. However, I would agree she was nervous debating in front of a hostile audience. Still, she was stoic.
Roxanne Gay seems deeply annoyed by having to sit there and hear someone she disagrees with. She seems to have the intellectual upper hand in certain respects--more intellectually nimble and verbally fluent--but she also seems to encourage the anti-intellectualism of the audience, as it looks for any provocation to praise her and ridicule Sommers, in spite of the possibility of points of common agreement. Her failure to take back her "white supremacist" smear, however, is to model the worst aspects of popular left wing discourse; it drains the term of meaning in the same way that flinging the word Nazi around is unethical and irresponsible. I don't know if Gay is a "bad feminist" but she seems quite content in her role at being a bad person.
Miss Sommers was cool, collected and came with the facts, logic and reason. Miss Gay came with nothing but her misguided ideology and her anger.
Roxanne was a living agony of no answers, no solutions, and no ideas. Hmm...I can’t imagine why she is still having the same conversations.
Roxane: "who cares WHY the pay gap exists" you aren't serious about the topic.
Wait, did she honestly say "who cares what the reasons are, there's a pay gap"?!
Juliana Silva I think she is just in stunned disbelief at the willingness to ignore facts
and then the crowd cheered
From the cheers and jeers (which CHS wisely pointed out do not determine truth) it was obvious there was a large contingent of grievance studies followers in the audience (which I doubt are representative of wider Australian views). They also dominated the Q&A session which reminded me of parliamentary questions where party members lob soft questions to their party-mates. I felt sorry for CHS (and those in the audience who came to listen), but to her credit she maintained her dignity and rationality throughout in spite of the sustained nastiness coming from RG and her followers in the audience. I had never heard of Roxanne Gay, but her "rhetoric" seemed mostly to consist of assertion and flawed/misleading reasoning, often delivered with an arrogant or nasty tone - not the humility that we should expect from someone who has been awarded a PhD.
This is really an unbelievable display of contempt, rudeness and lack of critical thinking. (Mostly talking about the audience.)
@@poopoo2171 is a good name for your comment.
@@poopoo2171 The reason you would insult is because you feel insulted. That means you identify with those awho are rude, contemptuous, and lack critical thinking.
"Lesbians love the WMBA" One cannot build an audience on lesbians alone
It's pretty crazy that they just left it there. That's how that nonsense lives on. Hoff makes perfect sense, but doesn't fit their narrative so they just make a joke and change the subject. Cognitive dissonance.
exactly. plus, the number of lesbians who actually love basketball isn't even the majority.
lesbians are already the minority in numbers, so why would a major sport invest in such a small demographic?
Thank you!! As soon as she said that I thought, "Well, first of all not ALL lesbians like it and, secondly, even if they did most women aren't lesbians". The Los Angeles team sells out because Los Angeles is a booming metropolis with various fanbases. The question is how many people actually sit down and watch them on TV? Most female sports fans prefer watching the men.
"Who cares what the reasons are? There's a paygap!"
But you have to care about the reasons Roxane. Because if my pay gap is due to my preference to work only 20hours a week as a barrista in a hipster lounge, compared to a friend of mine who works 60+ hours a week in same said lounge, it would be INJUSTICE to raise my pay to his despite the difference in work hours, OR force him to lower his hours so that our pay would match.
It´s like saying:" every day 8 thousand people die in the US"
"who cares why, 8 thausand people die every day!"
Well it is very important, wheter they die from old age, or Terrorism and starvation
OK i watched the whole thing, Jeez...
is it not obvious Gay has some very deep personal issues?
The body language the inability to engage Christina, look at the end when they should be respectful Gay ignores her. Further evidence that these hot button issues are really manifestations of inferiority and past emotional injury. Christina is on another level of personal growth and intellect to these people. I note the gibbering repressed woman who goes on about the people who support "not here today" is a childish attempt to bully and isolate Christina. Pathetic and intellectually vacant.
Roxane - "..why don't we worry about the women who are not believed as much as we worry about the men who might be falsely accused..."
Because Roxane, we used to hang innocent black men in the Jim Crow south of times past -on the word of a white woman.
And that should answer your question "why would women lie?".
This is something that YOU should know.
Too bad you can only regurgitate the usual feminist/marxist circular logic platitudes.
Good point. On the one hand she was all about race issues...but not with this.
VERY wonderful comment.
37:34 Patriarchy
29:22 Pay gap is a myth...
36:31 Pay gap (sighs: "who cares why it's there?")
24:57 Intersectionality (Capitalism is economic freedom)
32:42 US Equal protection under the law
1:01:42 Rap3 culture (trigger warning)
1:06:58 Racism (trigger warning)
Came here from your video.
@@EionBlue Same!
BINGO!
Please, upload the entire debate. That chopping and merging is very bad for the sake of thr arguments.
Why is this chopped up at all?
Hi Marcio, we are releasing a podcast version of each event in the coming week.
@@ThisIs42 Awesome! Where will we be able to reach them? Thank you so much!
How the hell can the details of such an atrocious terrorist attack as that of Charlie Hebdo be so quickly forgotten?
It was a brutal execution style shooting, not a bombing.
And it was clearly perpetrated for religious reasons, Roxane.
Had never heard of Roxane before. Hopefully i never will again.
ditto
Roxanne is a perfect example of how to not act in civil debate. I am frankly ashamed at being Australian and listening to the crowd. Cat calling to women is deplorable, but shouting down a woman for having her say is totally fine and encouraged.. Pull your head in, ladies.
Fr, one minute into the debate when asked about the definition of feminism she was like, "wElL iF yOu DoN't kNoW bY nOw, YoU'rE iGnOrAnT." meanwhile a significant portion of women don't identify with feminism... there are clearly conflicting ideas and definitions about what it is, so that is a completely legitimate question to ask.
And if this is how the audience acts when a woman disagrees with them, I can only imagine what would have went down had this all been said by a man...
33:00 It's not incredibly difficult for women to go into engineering rather than psychology:tick the little box on the form. Then show up for class, most guys like having women in their class.
1:55:04 I remember this from the night. It was really disgusting both Roxane Gay & Christina Hoff Sommers were happy to take his question and the audience booed him because they wanted him to hand the mike over to one of the woman. Even though neither of the speakers or the event organizers had asked him too.
Some of the people there just wanted to pick a fight with everyone.
From the video alone it just looks like they were yelling something about the mic not working.
Christina is a voice of reason flushed with nuance, not an ideologue. That's why she's not welcome in modern feminism.
I agree, but hell freezes over before other feminists realize that.
@BKF Not the ones I know. They're just normal people.
@@MadamoftheCatHouse Well, evidence suggests the ones you know are the exception, since that huge crowd was cheering Roxane all the time.
What the heck is going on with these feminists in Australia? That crowd was an embarrassment.
The rot is deep here. We don't realise how bad it is because no one expresses these opinions in the open like in the UK or USA. We need reasonable people to use their voices before it becomes illegal. We don't have a historical example of tyranny so we don't know how to avoid it. Australians are very proud with no good reason. Rough seas ahead, we need good sailors
Really? A trigger warning before the video starts? Before a freakin debate?
But there's wrongthink in it! How could they expose poor, fragile women to such... such truth!!
Southern Poverty Law Centre is hardly an ethically exemplary source of information.
They completely discredited.
Christina: "Women have equality under the law in the U.S."
Audience: *laughs*
Fucking point to one law that explicitly discriminates against women. Just one.
There's the issue of labiaplasty and the silver lining when it comes to parents committing FGM on their daughters by sending them away to get cut and then bringing them back to America. Getting paid less because of gender is a thing it just may not always be because of gender. Shoot even Hispanics will get paid less and I think that's a bit more commonly known by people. A woman getting paid less isn't out of thew realm of possibility.
Both men and women have laws of the land that go against them. It's unfair to say that these complaints are completely unfounded.
Wow. I don't think Roxane would survive a debate with Camille Paglia...
She’s not gonna survive period!
@ literally?
Paglia would've been a better choice for this debate. She's more combative, and would've dismantled Gay's ideology through logic, and a much needed history lesson.
She’s great but her constant stuttering and sort of all over the place thought process isn’t easy to listen to, even though I do really like her. i would say that one British lady, can’t remember her name.. would be perfect but I don’t think she considers herself a feminist. She’s basically like a female milo. I feel like her name is Camille too lol but I could be wrong
@@WayneZalinksy
Come back when you know what you are talking about
Roxanne is being oppressed by gravity not men...
I normally try not to judge looks. My issue isn’t necessarily her weight, but she’s wearing jeans like she’s running errands on a weekend. You’re doing a panel with an audience.....try to dress a little nicer.
she fully took up half of a 4-seat lounge.
That made me laugh!!
Mike She needs diet and exercise
oliver warmflash Genius!
1.12 BILLION watched the men's world cup final. The figure of twenty odd million viewers is laughable. The gap in pay between men and women's football is pure economics, nothing else.
“Worrying about the accused” is not a gendered philosophy, it is the root of “due process”.
I tried really hard to watch this. Couldn’t do it. It was like watching a scientist trying to explain evolution to a tent revival of snake handlers.
I'm expecting it to be a bit like a tutor trying to teach a 14 year old absolute monarch who ascended to the throne aged 8.
@@poopoo2171 Wow, such an intelligent response
Imagine being a feminist and thinking this was some sort of victory for you.
The moderator did a poor job controlling the crowd. Pretty unprofessional...
He also failed by signaling leftist philosophy. You are not the highlight, dude! Hopefully it won’t be like this for the future events he moderates...
@This is 42 - Desh, you should answer this, please. You did fail, appearing to civilised viewers to want to be popular with the audience instead of asking them to be more civil.
Hmmm "You have a few fans" ....or 'fanatics'...?
He actively encouraged them and seemed as biased as Roxanne. He didn’t bring any “stats” to refute Roxanne, even though the only one speaking from actual data was Christina.
“Who cares what the reasons are?”
Women’s sports do NOT bring in as much money. Therefore, the women don’t get paid as much.
Logic is a great thing
Hey This Is 42, is there any chance you could release the video from both nights separately? The jumping from Sydney to Melbourne distracts from the conversation - makes it stop/start and you don’t see the flow of the conversation. Pretty please?
Nick McKinnon super distracting
they never will. these people know that releasing the unedited version makes them look bad. THey edit it so their side looks better
Ohhhh...now I understand why the jacket is a different colour. Duh!
Hi Nick, we are releasing a podcast version of each event in the coming week so you can listen to the Sydney and Melbourne event separately.
@@ThisIs42 Cheers, looking forward to it. Is there a reason you're not releasing the video? It does seem suspicious...
I could listen to Christina all day
Apparently if you speak slowly, refuse eye contact and speak in a condescending tone that makes you right.
why on earth would you edit these together like this?
Gay is so sullen and doesn't make eye contact like a grumpy child. What a disappointing broken human. Next time please get a feminist who is actually open to discussions, she is painful to watch.
I always try to be measured in my comments, so I am not saying this hyperbolically nor lightly: besides a couple of answers when she remained general and common-sensical, Gay spoke no sense throughout the entire event. And plenty fans were delighted. It's quite concerning that there are such irreconcilable backgrounds and sets of presuppositions between me and quite a number of educated people that we can't even agree on what makes sense and what not.
Also, this was a childish and extremely rude audience, a shame to see.
I can't really answer about the quality of Gay's or Hoff Sommers' comments since the crowd made it very difficult for me to concentrate on what they were saying (I gave up after about 35 minutes). But yes, the audience's behavior was awful.
Hypocrisy from Roxane that she’s rightly pro interventionist to stop the misogynistic practice of female infanticide, but not pro interventionist of western feminists speaking out against misogynist patriarchal cultural effects on our fellow sisters overseas.
@Juliana Silva That's... not true at all.
@Juliana Silva Calling someone a rape apologist is just a buzzword to shut down debate. CHS rightly pointed out that the rape statistics were based on poor research that grossly over estimated the numbers. She was called a rape apologist for trying to correct inaccurate figures. That's a sign of an ideological zombie who doesn't want to hear the facts.
She also brought up the important link between actual campus rape and the prevailing drunken hook up culture. No one talks about this problem even though both are heavily connected. CHS is giving real world advice to young women, avoid putting yourself in dangerous situations because unfortunately they're will always be monsters out there ready to pounce. As a result she's accused of blaming the victim. This is untrue. We advise homeowners to lock their doors incase they get robbed. It's not victim blaming to do so and burglaries wouldn't stop if we gave classes on why it's bad to rob. This is because they're will always be predators in society who are looking to abuse and we need to teach the young this. It's ho good to say rape is wrong and do what you like, the psychopaths will not stop just because you suggest giving courses on morality. We need to teach people that the real world is not a Disney film and protect yourself
Says @Juliana Silva, a brazilian feminist and troll who haven't shaved for years.
@Juliana Silva what CHS is doing is providing an opportunity for women to be empowered and realise the amount of control they can have over situations in life.
If like Roxanne Gay you wish for women to feel they're the damsel in distress that only men can help then that's a reinforcment of gender oppression.
Do you want women to have chivalry to help them or do you want them to help themselves?
@Juliana Silva Your brain is broken. It thinks CHS said things she clearly never said. CHS would not say that she said those things.
You're hearing voices.
Take your Meds.
Christina Hoff Sommers is the voice of reason.
I watched this long enough to find the best quote, its at 1:49:15 when Sommers says "You guys? Thats a micro-aggression!" LOL
I want to congratulate everybody in the comment section for not referencing the physical characteristics or discrepancy of such characteristics.
This conversation seems cut. It would be nice to see the entire conversation without edits so I know I'm not missing something selectively edited out.
Roxanne is annoying. She fights with the moderator just because she doesn't like the questions. Clearly, she wants a feminist moderator who will feed right into her ideology.
The scariest thing about that video was how the crowd seemed so against capitalism. A free market system is what has given them all of the material goods that they currently posses. It's just so staggeringly ungrateful and ignorant. Haven't they been taught about 20th century history and how communism went during that time? Apparently they want Mao and Stalin back. Smh.
In other countries they wouldn't even have the opportunity to get paid for espousing their hatred of men and their contempt of women. Instead they would have to get a real job lest they would starve to death. That ironically they're so privileges that they're over eating themselves to death yet have the audacity to blame the system.
This was so unfair to Christina. Shame on the host, who handed silly questions to Roxanne while setting up Christina and encouraging the ridiculous audience. Shame on the audience, whose lack of respect is reflective of their lack of insight. And shame on Roxanne who doesn’t deserve to share a stage with Christina.
Those questions for Christina were loaded with the weak weasel's opinion.
I can't help but notice that Roxane is man-spreading the whole time...
Can't tell if this was a a honest statement, or a brilliantly masked fat-shaming.... Either way, Kudos
manatee-spreading. FTFY
@@TheCrucifiedClown new top comment
@@MrMrjchips I think I would have been petrified if I was Christina by the mere presence of Gay. Big AND menacing. YIKES!
@@TheCrucifiedClown yeah, comments like this are shitty on every level. I think pointing out her how egregiously smug she is, however, is a bit more productive. Look at her damn eyebrows every time there's a hot or holler from her side. It's clear she has no respect for all the people who might disagree slightly
I wonder what the average age of the audience was they sounded like teenage school kids, when they broke into laughter when they didn't agree with thing that CHS was saying, it was disconcerting for me.
Breakdown of societal norms. Having a stiff upper lip isn't chic.
_"it's current year!"_ * applause *
@@jon9668 I was there at the Sydney event. No-one was paid to be there. My impression from talking to people there was that most people were Roxanne Gay fans. They were rambunctious through the whole event. I felt sorry for Christina Hoff Sommers she didn't really get much of a chance.
I met a few people that were there were Christina Hoff Sommers fans they seemed pretty quiet through the whole event I think it was an intimidating scenario. The atmosphere was very hostile throughout the event. Even Roxanne Gay was being very careful with how she said things when her defense of Anziz Azari came up.
It seemed to me that very few people were there to keep an open mind and consider each argument.
None of that happened by design I think the event just sadly attracted some toxicity from people.
Literally the FIRST time Roxane opened her mouth, it was to shame, insult and disrespect the host.
Paglia would've been a better choice for this debate. She's more combative, and would've dismantled Gay's ideology through logic, and a much needed history lesson.
The debate in a nutshell:
CHS: Sure, a pay gap exists.
RG: See, you are denying the gap!
CHS: No, I’m just saying that there are reasons for the gaps that have nothing to do with isms and pathologizing people simply because they have white skin and gonads.
RG: You clearly don’t understand the gap.
CHS: I do. But there are disparities that are not simply explained by bias and racism.
RG: So...(stupid gears from the crowd)...(nods)...that’s punching up and doesn’t count.
CHS: Can you say anything that isn’t ideooogical?
RG: Huh? (Cheers)
This was a useful debate and good for future reference. This is where you realize what hypocrites the likes of Roxane Gay are and how very brave of Christina Hoff Sommers it was to step into the lion's den knowing what she had signed up for.
If it was me five or six years ago I would have jumped on the bandwagon in booing Sommers. I am a bit more mature now. Only time is revealing which directions the woke takes.
You do not need to go all too philosophical. Just look at Gay's reaction after the Iran video. Liberal people, and especially women, inside Iran, have for decades looked up to Western values (while holding on to their cultural principles) in fighting against a fascistic religious regime that has denied them their most basic rights. During the last few years, they have shown unprecedented bravery on camera in removing their compulsory hijabs and sending their message across human rights, amnesty, and feminist organizations in the west. The answer from Europe and the US has been lip service to the Islamic regime and complete silence from the media. Roxane Gay, a best-selling author, and a feminist looks at all this, then rolls her eyes (19:22) and says "It would be really presumptuous of me as a feminist to think I would know best for Saudi Arabian women." This is the same argument a person outside of gulags would probably have made. Apparently, this new wave of feminism has a slightly different agenda, one that is no longer about the suffering of millions of women under the tyranny of religion and totalitarianism, and more focused on pronouns and bathrooms.
The constant reference to Millionaires and 'he'll be fine!' is pretty clear evidence of the envy that is at the basis of these arguments. When enough people want to watch Women's football sports sportswomen's wages will go up.
Roxane is the definition of an absolute unit
This is 42, Thank you very much for sponsoring this event. Please release the full videos of both evening discussions. Would be very interesting. Podcasts are not enough if the full unedited videos are available
I have seen how smart and articulate Christina Hoff Sommers is on several talks and lectures, but unfortunately, she was not at her best here. She was obviosusly nervous and uncomfortable. And you could not blame her! The audience was the living portrait of irrationality. Roxane Gay gave very few intelligent opinions, but she had a very noisy fan base that would play the drums of the tribe each time she spoke, no matter how silly or irresponsive her remarks were. Meanwhile, they laughed when Christina hadn't even finished giving her opinion. It was clear right from the start that Roxane's fans were just her tribe and she was the chief. The sad part is that this is the very same behavior these people exhibit at every debate, lecture, etc. They act like weak, spoiled brats, overwhelmed by their emotions and hysteria everytime anyone dares to say something they disagree with.... I can only feel sorry for poor Christina, the only one trying to use reason there....
When she says “men won’t be left behind.” Has she seem the stats of boys on school, male homelessness and suicide? Boys and men are being left behind. Why does “pulling women up” have to mean pulling men down? She wasn’t understanding at all seeing the men’s side (I’m only part way in). Isn’t that the same of men disregarding women’s issues? Seems very hypocritical.
Warren Farrell is right when he says, in effect: I stopped being a feminist when their motto changed from, "I am woman, I am strong" to, "I am woman, I've been wronged."
If you're going to let supposed "systemic biases" stop you from achieving your dream of being an engineer, history teacher, football coach, ballerina or whatever other profession--then that's YOUR problem. Don't try to turn people into helpless victims, Roxanne. They aren't.
Im confused why is there two events mixed into one?
Its hard to listen to in the same breath gay talks about the nuances of womens oppression across the world and could care less about the nuances in the "wage gap" I honestly stopped listening because I already know her stances on most subjects without having to listen to her. It is scary that the crowd has her thought process, which are not even their own thoughts they are brainwashed. I feel sad for gay and people like her.
She also said men need to be quiet for a few years in relation to Matt Damon's point about gradations of punishment and yet minutes later she was moaning the same argument.
I stopped listenong
If you listen to Roxane you too can be as happy, healthy and fulfilled in life as she is...............
It doesn't matter what you think. 100 year from now, people will still be reading and discussing her outstanding books, and people like you will never be remembered. Lmao
Came here from Dr. Peterson's tweet.
Ahh to have been here a year ago. If only we'd shared this and other videos before intersectionality and critical race theory snuck into our lives and our institutions.
Bizarre why you mixed two events. Ruins it. Why should we trust your edits? We are here to hear their debate, not what you want us to see.
Hi, we are releasing a podcast version of each event in the coming week so you can listen to the Sydney and Melbourne event separately.
This Is 42 why can’t you upload the videos of the two separate events?
@@ThisIs42 This is just bizarre. My suspicion is that this edit was made to make gay look better.
It was an example of an Apollonian/Dionysian argument. Christina was representing Apollo and Roxanne Dionysus. Desh having the role of Themis. The crowd had a clear Dionysian bias, they were prepared to pay their money to express that bias. Already the UA-cam comments are significantly more Apollonian, opinions are free there.
Both speakers made good points and found agreement in many ways. It is a worthwhile contribution to the Public Discourse.
I find it interesting from what I understand is the difference in speaking fees. Roxanne often argued for equality for the poor, oppressed, and disfranchised, but her behaviour reflected getting as much as possible for herself (no equality of outcome between her and Christina, and then demanding that the ticket prices be lowered with no loss to her speaking fee). Nassim Taleb makes a point of being more interested in someones investment account, than their words. This is her. Attacking and resenting the rich is her best path to joining them. She wants equality as long as she is as rich as possible and someone else is paying for it (preferably white men).
The debate just started and Roxanne is already calling people ignorant for asking a simple, legitimate question. Off to a great start.
Gay's worldview is that people need to agree with everything she believes otherwise they are not worthy of respect or forum.
It is difficult to listen to Roxanne. So much ignorance.
Ryan Vanderburg -- Ignorance? She makes more sense than anyone I've heard in a long time. Certainly more than the babbling of the blond lady. Just on intersectionality for instance. Prof. Gay is on the faculty at Yale University -- hello? Are we listening to the same person? Are you listening at all?
Helen Lauer I’m sure we’re listening to the same person. Her points fall flat, and her arguments aren’t consistent with reality. Outcomes will always be different for different people and peoples. Sometimes some have an uphill battle. But what we all have is opportunity to make the right decisions to climb.
@@helenlauer9545 the fact that you care more about her Yale accreditation more than the arguments she made shows that you weren’t paying attention.
Roxanne Gay: “ Feminism.”
Audience: 👏 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
They are all sheep
Wait, Roxanne, a minute ago your were saying we cannot assume what is right for women in other cultures but as it relates to female infanticide you say we MUST absolutely have international and UN intervention where ever in the world women are suffering and dying!!
Very dissapointing that you chopped together different debates into one. This isn't what was promised.
We had 6 cameras and 2 cities, the goal was to show both events because they were slightly different.
@@ThisIs42 It would have been nice to just see both of debates without edits. We lose the scope of the conversation overall
@@ThisIs42 disappointing indeed - please upload the full thing!
@@ThisIs42 Then upload both events if they were slightly different! As it is, I have to wonder what I'm not seeing during your editing process. Your editing was highly distracting and diminished the value of the event(s).
@@joeyserio The constant editing was a show stopper.
@1.06 Speaks volumes that Gay had never heard of Christina Sommers. WOW. Perspective of a gnat.
Watched this entire video. So Roxane blames men for everything. Women can do no wrong. Christine wants to talk about what the causes are and how can we move forward
0:00 Please be advised, this talk contains topics contained in life. If you are too weak to live, please consult your nearest licensed euthanasia expert to see to your living challenges.
Does Roxanne Gay ever look happy and relaxed?
Liberals aren’t happy unless they are miserable!
I remember teaching my kids when they were young not to talk to strangers, not to take car rides with strangers etc. When they finished college and went on to employment, go to work drinks etc, I had a good discussion with them about alcohol sensibility & safety, staying safe, keeping ur friends safe, having a good time and being in a position that you would return HOME. Why wouldn't you have the same discussion if they went to University? The western world is the same everywhere. University doesn't have an insular environment that excludes crime or bad behaviour. Be sensible.
33:24 "The majority of people were men." Given that she said, "Hate towards men is completely reasonable.", I'm not surprised she felt uncomfortable.
Completely agree. I worked in a place that was about 80% men when I started. Of course there were guys who were rude and sometimes even vulgar around me. But the truth is most of them were great to me and I was treated very well. Maybe bc I'm not a radical man-hating victim who went into the environment looking for confrontation. This woman and the audience were beyond rude and insulting to Christina Hoff Somers. She was a lady the whole time and she had the facts on her side.
@@heather2028 OMG so much internalised misogyny. /s
@@brianm.johnson4438 lol I'm sure that would be a response from the man-haters. Plus, I actually walked away from that successful career when I became a mother... the horror! Lol
I wish I could see Christina live. These ladies were so lucky to see this even if they didn’t appreciate
Case in point as to how those strange, fast moving, far left, politically correct, "academic philosophies & theories" are already deeply embedded in our culture/system...This video has a trigger warning at the beginning of it. Also- Roxanne, 7:35...."If you're a feminist you're (thought to be)....a trouble maker, an unpleasant person, angry, man-hating, which are...you know these are all entirely reasonable ways to be.".....everyone laughs, even Desh,...the laughs come so easy at such jokes... How horrendous. And somehow this kind of speech/behavior is okay? I have, and would never make that kind of, not so tongue in cheek, or tongue in cheek statement about women-hating...ever. Its pretty fashionable and culturally acceptable to hate men these days... Its powerfully insidious... kinda scary as a man... I for one have never in my life thought it okay to harass, disrespect, cat-call, stare at, objectify, exploit, think less of, or hate women, in fact I love women. Despite that, I am lumped in, due to the way I was born (my sex), as one to be hated by many of them. What a privilege.
I appreciate Christina and folks like her.
1:50:57 "Language matters" except when it's misandric.
"It's imperialistic to say, 'Look at that culture and it backwards ways.'" Except if you're talking about female foeticide.
What a fucking hypocrite.
19:55 OMG !!! These women are asking for your help!! 37 lashes for defending women who want freedom and that's your answer ??? Wow how did anyone cheer for that
Please release the podcasts as soon as convenient. Can’t watch this w the editing. What is the podcast called? How can I find it?
Roxanne is a proper ideologue
What's so difficult about releasing both unedited versions in video form separately? Why is there a need for you guys to frame it?
The flaw in Roxanne thinking that the perpetrator needs to be addressed...is that men / boys are already addressed. They are taught from an early age not to be violence, overly aggressive and to play nice. In contrast, little girls are encouraged today to be more aggressive...and violent, as needed. So, Roxanne is wrong and Christina is right -- we are blaming the men and not focusing on teaching women to manage situations better / causing think like victims.
Exactly!!! I never understood this narrative that somehow teaching men that rape is wrong will stop them. Rapists know that rape is wrong and they don't give a s*** because they're sociopathic or psychopathic narcissists. The fact that they know it's wrong is often more of a thrill for them. So yes, it is on the burden of others who aren't narcissistic psychopath or sociopaths and can reason with reality that they're the ones who have to be vigilant. That's just the way it is. It sucks but there's nothing you can do about it. We share our world with monsters.
The big lady looks so unhappy.
Of course she is . Even if any of this psudoscience nonsense was true it makes spiteful, vindictive, miserable people who behave like ass holes. Look at the size of this "oppressed" woman and she dares say she is as "oppressed" as the women in Africa .
Of course she's miserable. She's a third wave radical feminist. If you look up the very definition of that... it reads "miserable lonely bitch"
On top of that, she probably hasn't had an orgasm in years. There's no way she could find her own clitoris and you know damn well no one else is going digging in there to find it. That's bound to make anyone a miserable bitch.
She hates Men. So thefore she hate god. She couldnt be happy
She's travelled to Australia to talk on a panel where shes is sitting next to a Karen like you... of course she's unhappy
It utopian to think we can rid the world of misogyny and misandry. People need to do what they can to get rid of it, but also develop strategies to build resilience to survive it.
roxee57 it’s utopian to think we can rid the United States of slavery. See how that line of thinking isn’t helpful?
Great Job Desh. You carried yourself like a champ.
Does anyone know why this is two videos spliced together? Thanks!
Why don’t the women’s soccer team play in the men’s league
This was unbearable. Why would Sommers even agree to appear with Gay?