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Christian Bale Says Hollywood (and the World) Would Be Better If ‘White Dudes’ Weren’t in Charge of Everything The actor says there would be "so much better films and so much more interesting stories" if white dudes weren't running Hollywood. Zack Sharf Dec 19, 2017
Christian Bale has had enough of “white guys” running everything in Hollywood and beyond. The actor stopped by AOL Build with his “Hostiles” co-star Rosamund Pike and Wes Studi on December 18 and told the crowd that the reason he moved to the U.S. in the first place was because he wanted his kids to grow up in a “country of inclusion.” Unfortunately, that ideal hasn’t been too much of a reality.
“Our culture will be so much richer the day that we stop saying, ‘Hey, it’s all white dudes who are running things,'” Christian Bale said. “Whether that be Hollywood, whether that be Washington, you know. We’re going to get, in Hollywood, so much better films and so much more interesting stories being told and America will become the America that the rest of the world sees it as, that makes it unique…that we recognize makes this such a beautiful, brilliant country.”
I still remember the new mutants comics and how diverse the actual team was lead by an Asian female team leader, a biracial Brazilian, a indigenous woman with anxiety, a country boy from a poor mining town, a young orphan girl who suffered religious abuse, a Russian girl kidnapped by demons, tackled racism, abuse, conflicts between children and their parents, fear and insecurity
@@PillarofGarbage X-Men related comics in general were way ahead of their time. But sometimes they were not. Like the fact that karma's name isn't actually a real Vietnamese name😂
New Mutants is peak. The comic had some things that did not age well at all (Magma's introduction is cringeworthy) but it's a very diverse team even for today's standards. The movies can learn from it. Breaks my heart to see Roberto whitewashed (twice!) in live action.
Trying to kill the earth then rule it what dark lords do=don't help by saying morality when it's slavery and communism when it's just russian/asian fascism.the criminal insane are sopisism encarnet and use they're own definitions. Saints row and grand theft auto isn't what 99% of earth uses for freedom. It's called evil everywhere else.
@@PillarofGarbage It still could be good. Like imagining a story and humorously uing the code, th original code to, em cant be to abide by th "moral code"
"Maybe this recent push for inclusion is just the abscess of a previous agenda who's effects you've been taking for granted". Now THIS is something I will be quoting for the rest of my life. Holy shit this statement is just perfect!
If anything, it is not the absence of an agenda, it's a REVERSE agenda. And overcorrection, if you will. It is hard to imagine someone watching modern movies and TV and not noticing that the implementation of diversity almost always feels inauthentic and token. I don't think it's that difficult to grasp. There are a few phenomenal exceptions. But pretending these films fail because America or The West in general, is just so "misogynist/racist/etc" is laughable at this point. You can't shame people into seeing things they don't like. It's time to stop pretending there's no legitimate way to criticize Hollywood's approach to diversity. The racial dynamics honestly felt healthier and more organic in the 80s and 90s. Obviously there was less representation, but it also didn't feel token or performative. That's a huge indictment on the current era, IMHO. But back then, we were still on the MLK beat, where we didn't ascribe ones moral standing based on where they resided on the "oppression" hierarchy.
One of the big examples I bring up to people is the John Stewart Green Lantern. Back in the day he was created because of a lack of black DC superheros. This again happened in the Justice League Cartoon and because many of us grew up with that show, John Stewart is a lot of people's favorite Green Lantern
Exactly, although the comic book John at first was just typical black steryotype and didn't had much of personality until stories like Cosmic Odissey and Mosaic developed him (even john ridley adressed this in his The Other History of the DC Universe). The DCAU version on other hand gave John a much better portrayal as this badass marine soldier.
Imo it's the opposite. In the 70s and 80s John had an interesting personality that worked as a foil for Hal. But after the JL cartoon his personality is "serious soldier".
@@frankorious534 Eh, he was a pretty annoying character when he was first introduced. He didn't become likable until after Cosmic Odyssey where his stupidity caused a planet to be destroyed.
@@wakkaseta8351 Being a artist is not the same as having a personality. Thats the point I'm trying to make. When he was create John didnt much of personality except being a green lantern who is black (even his design was that steryotype similar to Luke Cage in the 70's) stories like Cosmic Odissey and Mosaic that John grow as hero, with the DCAU giving him his most defintive portrayal as this stern badass soldier
For me, the CCA was always a double-edged sword: It allowed kids to read comics that didn't traumatize them for life and caused the rise of Marvel superheroes, but at the same time it was very conservative and limited the ideas of the creative, not to say that it didn't do much for the minorities... Well, now that I think about it, the bad edge is longer than the good edge. Glad that it's gone.
I mean... just put ratings on the comics like movies or games. Not the writers fault if like GTA and any horror movie the parent is either an idiot or doesnt care that the kid is looking at it.
Wdym "not to say it didn't do much for the minorities" the CCA has done nothing for minorities except repress the representation they were allowed to have in comics. The amount of queer representation people wanted to put in comics but couldn't because of the CCA puts the amount of queerbaiting in supernatural to shame.
Agreed, Am still upset at the CCA for Batman & Catwoman relationship. Batman wasn't allow to have a successful relationship with Catwoman .Because he's the " hero" and she the "villain". You want to see how much of impact CCA had on American comics. Read a European comic, a manga , and then read a comic from DC, Dark horse or Marvel comic. You quickly learn how behind the curve we are with our story telling in American comics.
Actually, the CCA forced comic book writers to be more creative, especially with trickier subject matter. The silver and bronze age of comics had some of the best stories of all comics. The modern age of comics (after the CCA was disbanded)is like modern art. The early pioneers were true visionaries who challenged the status quo but came from a traditional art background but soon turned into garbage like Piss Jesus or an unmade bed. Yes, those are real modern "art" pieces. The current crap you see today is the Piss Jesus of the comic book world.
@ Judofan I agree , the CCA did force creativity. But, only because they took so much away. To point they limited story capability of American comics. One of main reasons CCA was formed was horror comics. So, it really was a form of censorship. But, that doesn't make current comics instantly good. You still need good writers . And both CCA and current American comics craters are very similar. They both want it their way. And don't want to listen to the opinions of others.
It reminds me of how shocked I was at reading Ditko's Blue Beetle, because Ted Kord's love interest was a scientist with a good head on her shoulders! But of course worked for Ted because it was the 60's. I do think it should be noted that Stan Lee did create characters like Black Panther, wanting to diversify, and in fact he helped break the Code with a Spider-Man comic. Heck, comic writers have been trying to add more diversity to comics for decades- look at characters like Black Lightning, Katana, or the fact Chris Claremont wanted Destiny and Mystique to be a couple, or the entire Milestone imprint. The cultural amnesia regarding the effects of the Hayes Code, CCA, and McCarthism is ridiculous. Because why do people want to question their own world view they enjoy so well?
I mean there were so many things in Claremont's xmen that were very clearly gay that he couldn't say explicitly because of the CCA. Mystique and Destiny of course, whose relationship has been canonized. Kitty Pryde recently was confirmed to be bisexual, and despite her longtime "love interest" (technically it was all in subtext but they were clearly in love) Rachel Summers now being in love with someone else, it is also a woman, namely Betsy Braddock, and they had a full page panel of just them kissing and it's so cute I just want to AJDHYSJSB
Yeah, this whole thing’s a mess of complexities - but even if the CCA may have helped superheroes become popular (because they of course did predate the CCA by many years) it’s sort of the genre’s ‘original sin’, and it needs to be considered.
@@TupocalypseShakur I'm just regurgitating something I read like 10-15 years ago. Something about how the CCA was run, in part, by the comic publishers themselves. Think of it like Black Widow's reasoning for signing onto the Sokovia Accords: "At least this way, we still have a hand on the wheel". Either the comics industry policed itself, or laws were going to be made against them.
I'm so used to seeing garbage thumbnails whining about superhero media becoming more inclusive that I actually mistook this thumbnail and video title as yet another complaint about "non-white Namor," etc etc. Ie, that by "Diversity Problem" you meant you...actually had a problem with diversity, because that's how much people aren't hiding what they really think these days. Then I saw it was by Pillar of Garbage. I wish more channels produced your kind of content. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Thanks for this video and this is what your black brothers and sisters mean when they say "Systemic Racism and White Privilege". CCA is an illustration of how Systemic Racism works and directly harmed the black communities ability to become economically independent and kept us as bottom class for generations. It has long last effects to this day that majority of modern individuals do not comprehend.
Very funny timing of this video for me as I just wrote a research paper on the silver age and the comics code authority! The CCA decimated the comics industry and pushed comics companies to prioritize profit over creativity just to survive (a mindset they still have trouble leaving behind). Amazingly in spite of that creators still managed to create some of the most iconic characters and comics ever created but it's curious what direction the industry would've taken without the CCA. Woke is such a stupid term that serves no purpose except for being a lightning rod for hatred and I'm tired of seeing people take it seriously.
“Woke” didn’t start out that way; it started out as a positive descriptor (though admittedly something of a self-congratulatory one) for people who actively paid attention to the problems in the world and tried to help fix them. Then it go co-opted and turned into a right-wing buzzword yayyyyy…
Today the word "woke" basically acquired the meaning of "anything that the conservative and reactionary right-wing morons don't like". When you see it thrown around in any discussion, you know you're in for a """based""" take hahaha.
@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ woke originated in black american communities as a way to signal you were aware of the systemic injustice that was happening around you. nothing self congratulatory about it.
Actual woke is indeed awful. For example New Warriors. Woke is more of an action. Putting message over story then using the Kafka fallacy to deflect from criticism. Kafka fallacy is when you say disagreement is validation to your statement. A classic conservative Kafka is to say “women are all over emotional” so if you get mad at that at all they say you’re just proving them right. A woke Kafka is now how people will say white men are angry and rage filled, so if a white man responds negative to that statement at all it’s “see you proved me right!” It’s pretty simple people don’t want a story that calls them bad. The diversity itself isn’t bad at all, people love plenty of diverse characters, its about the writing and the story being told
I do agree with you that comics code authority was just horrible for the comic book industry as a whole and really didn't help anyone period in the long run.
This was a very well-written and educational video. I had no idea how far the effects of the cca reached in the mid 1900's, and it's saddening how discriminatory it was in a country that was much more diverse than they wanted it to be. I love that this video addresses the real agenda, to keep comics to the old conversative status quo, an agenda which unfortunately still continues today. So thank you for making this video, it's just an excellent analysis all around.
My favorite insane Comics Code detail is that criminal characters could not be shown benefiting from crime--for example, a villain who robbed a bank had to get caught by the hero before he could spend any of the money. It makes sense in a vague "Don't teach kids that crime pays" sort of way, but it was incredibly limiting to storytelling. It removed a lot of moral complexity (your villain can't rob a bank to pay for his child's medical care--or if he does, the kid has to either die or mysteriously receive a windfall from some unrelated source) and removes entire archetypes (good luck telling Robin Hood stories, for example). It smacks of rules written by people who don't understand how fiction works. Like parents today who complain about children's fiction that doesn't include active, benevolent parent figures. (Do you honestly think a good parent would let a child protagonist have life-threatening adventures?!) All this because a psychologist claimed that Superman undermined children's respect for authority. 🙄
@@shikatsu To be fair, he was doing that before the Comics Code existed and before Wertham's book was published. And he had, uh, a lot of stuff going on all on his own...
Carol Danvers was created as a side character in the late 60s, but for the time, she was independent and career-focused. So when she became the editor of Woman magazine in the 70s, it seemed consistent with her personality, as did her confronting Jameson.
She also had terrible childhood, with abusive father, which explain how she became the tough badass hero she is. This themes of feminism were always present in Carol stories.
@@AllPwrflSteve The caveat "for the time" is important. She was created as a romantic interest for the lead character, and she was depicted as a damsel in distress. Where the video suggests this is all she was, it loses important aspects of the character. She was created as something of a proto-feminist character. But it was still the 60s...
If I recall correctly, Carol Danvers' Miss Marvel was the first Marvel super heroine (or the first super heroine on general) that was openly referred to as a feminist. That background is fun to point out when people say "she was better before they turned her into a feminist".
@@Jean-Paul-Lane-Valley In Ms. Marvel, she was very much a feminist. And she was the first female superhero in Marvel to have her own comic book. So when she became the first female character to get an MCU film, it made historic sense. Marvel repeating itself
It can never be stated enough, the conditions surrounding somethings production is just as important as the particular thing. It feels like most “nerd” hobbies have this issue.
I mean you have manga and anime...with a VAST PLETHORA of Asian male characters...RIGHT THERE😂. And its mainstream too, ESPECIALLY today so you cant even say its being looked over or disregarded
Great essay. As a comics geek, a progressive and a history major, this video checks all the boxes for me. And it's a breath of fresh air from all the 'woke agendas are ruining everything' videos.
Loved the video and really looking forward to more in this series. Would love to see one on Commodifying Diversity because it often feels like the companies making superhero media (though not exclusively them, unfortunately) treat diversity as a commodity. On one hand, they like having it because it makes headlines and gets outrage clicks from reactionary weirdos. On the other, they dripfeed it so that they'll get the opportunity to pull the same trick again. Because if they normalised diversity, it would lose its sensationalist appeal. So instead you have a sort of artificial scarcity for diversity, keeping its value high. Do you have any plans to cover this topic or a similar one?
beyond a couple of other loose ideas for topics I wanna cover at some point, I don’t really have any firm plans for this series, or how long it’s gonna last - so if it keeps going I’m sure I’d take a look at this angle sooner or later!
This. I hate how all these companies make a huge deal about adding one diverse character when they could've had a much more diverse cast to begin with but they just add one strong female or one LGBTQ person and act like they're really pushing boundaries while changing basically nothing and making sure all the scenes that actually show this diversity can be quickly snipped out of the movie when they send it over to China.
Fascinating that whilst we can write about elves, wizards, monsters, and superheroes living in the shires and galaxies far far away- crossing the line is making some of these characters people of colour😂😂😂😂😂😂
As a member of the Alphabet Mafia I am always going to be biased towards stories that involve my people, I am just hoping that one day I can read about a hero who is casually a trans women. Wasn't a victim of abuse, isn't some caricature made to look like someone who is incredibly masculine dresses like a 5 year old girl. Just some badass who happens to take E every day
Most definitely. It benefits no one as instead of just trying to approach a topic usually nowadays we get shit shoved down our throats with ideas like Snowflake and Safespace We need superheroes that are heroes who just also happen to be trans or whatever without it being abnormal or pointed out
OK, this is fucked up. I knew that anglo countries had a dark past, but somehow from time to time I learn something more that makes me say "bruh". Two weeks ago I discovered what "Section 28" was, and now this.
As a minority, I definitely enjoy having diversity in comics. I think I only dislike it when it feels "marketed," rather than natural, like they're saying "hey, we're gonna make these diverse characters replace the old ones because that's what we think you want us to do."
That generally doesn't happen. The old characters are essentially forever. What does happen, a lot, is for instance Iron Man's sales dropping, and Marvel going, "hey, let's kill him off, and bring him back with a lot of fanfare in a year or so". And while he's dead Riri Williams gets to take over the Iron Man book.
@@Carabas72 I mainly mean the "replacement" era. It happens a lot for characters; they get relatives, clones or sucessors who feel like their main purpose is replacement. It's weird.
@@OpticalSorcerer I honestly can't think of a single character that has been replaced other than a very long series of failed Captain Marvels that includes two females ones before Carol Danvers.
I still remember when I was chatting with a Japanese friend of mine, who is a HUGE Marvel fan. Still, when I told him about the news of the new iron fist being Asian and the possibility of an Asian iron fist in the MCU, he was less than amused. He was pissed because he didn't mind Danny's race; he liked his character as this man who feels like a stranger in two worlds and got quite annoyed with another Asian being the martial arts expert and saw Marvel's stunt as lazy. I spoke with other Asian friends about the subject, and they surprisingly shared similar sentiments.
I don’t blame him because not only does this repeat a stereotype but there was no need for an Asian Iron Fist to begin with. Danny Rand was a cool character and people liked him in the comics why would Marvel want to change that? This is why I don’t like race changing or gender swapping already established characters, nobody likes sloppy seconds or table scraps.
I mean Iron Fist being an Asian defeats the purpose in the first place. K'un L'un have no love for outsiders and Danny being White makes it more tougher cos he's just a lost gaijin/gweilo to the people of K'un L'un. And in order to earn his place, he must adapt or die Those words are Japanese (gaijin) and Cantonese (gweilo) degradatory terms which basically translates "Foreign Devil"
@@darkroninmarvelthen again I've seen white people in my country being called "Ang Moh Kui" growing up It's a Hokkien Slur meaning, Red Haired devil. Targetted towards the Dutch at first then to all Caucasians in general. Yeah most of Asia have a dash of xenophobia in them but it's now just the older generation mostly afaik
this video poses a good question, but it also feels like a depressing glimpse into the future. Lots of "woke" books being banned in Florida (and im sure other states) Floridas Government hyping some victory against the "woke Disney" (something to do with how the parks are run), I cant help but wonder how long till movies with "woke" and "CRT" themes to them, will need to be rated R, in some states. eg: If the Black Panther movie was reviewed in the same way books are in Florida state education system, that movie would be banned. If those schools have any Black Panther comics, I would not be shocked if they have been removed from the shelves. If the school has Black Panther DVDs, im sure they to have been pulled.
You should do a video on mary sue cause I'm getting a sense of closeted misogyny when someone uses this term. Nowadays mary sue don't even necessarily have to be an rgb neko wolf demon dragon goddess with 8 wings and a fox tail who has every elemental power in the world with a color palette of unicorn vomit. Now it's just characters (90% it will be a women) who are just powerful and have impressive feats, or just popular and important, or just woman protagonist doing protagonist things.
I think the term should just be retired. Nobody really agrees what it means, and it's not useful at all. If a character needs some reworking, there are better ways to talk about that than calling them a Mary Sue.
Thanks for this, my feeds been filled with a lot of the people who complain about diversity and only seem to engage with comics to shit on them. The title had me concerned but I’m glad I gave you a shot :)
Man this video is incredible and hopefully this gets enough views although I know some of the (conservative especially) comic book fans won’t listen to all of these facts cuz they will never accept the world changing and will just use the word “woke” if it’s not white male and straight enough or something. Great video tho
This was a great video. Went into it expecting what I’ve heard before from other people, but no. This was well thought out, researched and identified a serious problem with how people view superheroes today. Great job! Gonna subscribe!
I think another thing isn't just what we have in the present, but ALSO how we are raised in the past. Children who are raised by parents with conservative, or centrist, or even liberal leanings tend to be more likely to see diversity as a huge issue in comparison to leftist or plainly progressive parents who have a more "live and let live" philosophy. And some parents are so strict with their right-leaning values they don't even let their kids see a whole lot of kid's entertainment unless its strictly puritanical and Christian. For me though, I would say the two specific things that got me thinking that not only is diversity no problem, but it can actually be cool were the DCAU and Boba Fett. I could have sworn Green Lantern was white usually when I saw episodes of Justice League Unlimited, BUT when I noticed they used a black man as GL, I didn't really mind or care. And eventually, John Stewart became one of my favorite characters in the cartoon, and to this day, he's still Green Lantern in my eyes over Hal. The second is Boba Fett. Before Mandalorian, we usually always saw Boba with his helmet on, and because he was seen as the ultimate male power fantasy, many people associated him with being somebody like Solid Snake or Kurt Russel when he took off the helmet. But then, I found out in the original EU when he took off his suit he was a black man, and then when parts of Legends got tossed out so Lucas could rewrite the Clone Wars era, he still kept Boba being a PoC with Temuera Morrison. Again, I didn't really care. My rationale was: "Okay. That's Boba Fett. Now I know." I think the Anti-Woke/Comisgate shit may be creating a new generation of these knuckle-draggers, but still, the more generations continue, the more conservatives and reactionary mindsets tend to die. I think in direct opposition to those mindsets we have shows like She-Ra that embraced even more of the queercoding of the original by flat-out making most of the characters LGBTQIA, and stuff like Into the Spider-Verse which is very overt and clear in saying a superhero is a mantle just as much as it is a persona for one specific character, and with Miles, an African American Latino being the new Spider-Man, that's gonna make the idea other people can continue the torch of a classic hero more popular.
The late 90s and ESPECIALLY the 2000s did an AMAZING job of doing diversity cause the characters were just PEOPLE and their designs aka skin color was SECOND. Thats why you dont see ANYONE complaining about the representation back then. But Mid 2010s and modern day act like that didnt happen and walk around with this annoying "SAVIOR" attitude thats just incredibly PRENTENTIOUS. The older comics for the most part actually understood NUANCE at least from what I've seen(Xmen, Black Panther) which is something a lot of writers today are too DAFT to understand Its crazy we just GLOSS over this and jump to the 1960s...like for pete sake😭. Why do people act like the 2000s NEVER happened. Every show I watched as a child had organic representation and the characters just felt like people...didnt even notice that cause I was a CHILD and didnt care about crap like that...until I grew older...MAN I miss childhood😭 Today, the corporations are just USING the disenfeanchised to sell their products rather than actually caring about what they are selling which is the PROBLEM...theres no way anyone with eyes cant see thay.
"Thats why you dont see ANYONE complaining about the representation back then." Yes they did, absolutely they did. The difference was that the Internet wasn't as big back then and the Alt-Right didn't exist.
"Maybe this recent push for inclusion is just the abscess of a previous agenda who's effects you've been taking for granted". I think this might match how I feel on the debate, but for context, part of the problem of these discussions entail: 1. Acting like all modern comics handle "Woke" elements poorly, but just focus the rants on the titles getting attention. Sonic the Hedgehog and MMPR do so pretty well and aren't shy about inclusiveness. 2. Acting like entertainment Pre-2016 was 99% top quality and maybe 1% crap. And even those conceding otherwise still insist that say Chuck Austin's X-Men or Spider-Man One More Day is better cause it isn't Woke. 3. Well yeah, even if conceding that politics were heavy and weren't always nuanced, it's more the modern preaching that bothers them. Basically the heart of the matter is them thinking "Well I'm not bigoted, so I don't deserve being preached at". But it seems more like they think it's enough not to be directly antagonistic towards people of other races, gender or sexualities. Nit taking into account the danger of apathy. Like if a woman (or anyone) is the victim of sexual assault, there is less of hatred spewed towards the criminal, but critique for the woman not dressing like a nun. Basically taking pressure off a sex offenders to change and even defending him.
This is SO GOOD. People are ignorant of things that led to what they're familiar with and just assume that's how it always was. They need to be shown the forces at work to establish the homogeneity they cling to as "normal".
I have to say that this is such an amazing reframing of the situation that provides a much more competant counter to this kind of retoric. And I think the important value of this is with those like you mentioned who are somewhat progressive but think of it as an overcorrection
I loved this video, and I can’t wait to see where this series goes! That said, I will note that there’s another misconception about Marvel, Star Wars, and other nerdy medium’s sudden onset of “wokeness”: it’s been there all along. Sure, repressed by the comics code, but even then and before then there were “woke” ideas being shown, and they’ve only gotten more prominent over time. It’s summed up in an excellent Facebook post by Kenny Boyle I saw: “X-Men is about civil rights. If you didn't get that, you didn't get X-Men. Black Panther is about civil rights. If you didn't get that, you didn't get Black Panther. Captain America literally fought Nazis. He is the embodiment of fighting the alt-right. If you didn't get that, you didn't get Captain America. The Empire in Star Wars is facist. The Rebel alliance are Anti-Facist. If you didn't get that, you didn't get Star Wars. The Punisher isn't meant to be a role model for police or armed forces. So much so that the writers of The Punisher made him actively speak out against it in a comic. If you didn't get that, you didn't get The Punisher. Deadpool is queer. He's pansexual. Fact. If you didn't get that you didn't get Deadpool. Star Trek is about equality for all genders, races and sexualities. As early as the mid-60s it was taking a pro-choice stance and defending women's right to choose. One of its clearest themes is accepting different cultures and appearances and working together for peace. (It's also anti-capitalist and pro-vegan). If you didn't get that, you didn't get Star Trek. Superman and Supergirl (and a whole host of other superheroes) are immigrants. The stance of those comics is pro-immigration and pro-equality and acceptance. If you didn't get that, you didn't get Superman or Supergirl. Stan Lee said ‘Racism and bigotry are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today.’ If you're bigoted or racist, you didn't get any of the characters Stan Lee created. The stories we grew up with all taught us to value other people and cultures and to treasure the differences between us. Only villains were xenophobic, or sexist, or racist, or totalitarian. I can't understand how anyone can have missed that. If you're upset that there's a black Spider-Man, or a black Captain America, or a female Thor, or that Ms Marvel is Muslim, or that Captain Marvel was pro-feminism, or any of the other things right wing ‘fans’ say is ‘stealing their childhood’ - you never got it in the first place. The things you claim are now ‘pandering to the lefties’ were never on your side to begin with. If you consider yourself a fan of these things, but you still think the LGBTQ+ community is too ‘in your face,’ or have a problem with Black Lives Matter, or want to ‘take the country back from immigrants,’ then you're not really a fan at all. Geek culture isn't suddenly left wing... it always was. You just grew up to be intolerant. You became the villain in the stories you used to love.”
Personally, I've never really had a problem with "woke" media unless a character's ethnicity was changed for the sake of it. Representation can be done right in media. John Stewart was the main Green Lantern in the DCAU because executives wanted the Justice League to have at least one black member and his presence never felt forced or in your face, heck I've seen some people prefer him to Hal. Why is that nowadays whenever they introduce a diverse character in media they either get accused of being forced for not having flaws, or unlikeable for being flawed.
I eagerly await the arguments of those who disagree and who are able to assess your argument accurately, present pertinent evidence, and maintain the standards of logic and civility. Hopefully they will come before I reach my 60th birthday, lol. PS Nice video. Obliging the makers of comics to meet standards that are in effect racist, sexist, and otherwise bigoted and moralistic created expectations that persist to this day. Current comics that try to challenge those standards are often imperfect, and sometimes are kind of cringe, but it's worth doing anyway, and done as well as possible in current conditions.
I mean.. I can make the argument, but you arent gonna like and/or agree with it, because its probabaly fundamentally opposed to your world-view. Most of these arguments are based on preferences and feelings, so there isnt really an objective right and/or wrong point to it. Here´s an example of such an argument: Movies should stick to the source material(the comics in this case) and thus not be concerned with the social unbalances that recreates, because its more important to visually and accurately recreate the source material, than it is to fit the movies to current day political and social standards((IE social representation has less value in media than source-material accuracy)). Example: The Harry Potter movies (pretty much an all white hetero cast adopted straight from the books). I dont think POG is a shill at all and I enjoy all his content. At the same time, I refuse to believe that an entire subset of the comic-book movie fandom is just straigh up racist and doesnt have a single valid point. Some of them? Sure. All of them? No. "WOMAN BAD" obviously doesnt fly, but points like "I didnt like Layla in Moon Knight, because she stole valuable time from the protagonist in the final episode" or "I didnt like She-Hulk, because of the direction it took Bruce Banner" is a lot more nuanced and can absolutely be valid.
@@nielsfrederiksen6636 sure, but that’s not what they’re saying tho. There’s nothing wrong with genuine criticism. However if you starting saying things like “woke” “pandering” or “SJW” etc all of that is accusations. Plus the “follow the source” is valid, but also lacks nuance. Not every aspect of comics can be adapted to TV & especially Movies. We as fans often ignore the behind reasons for changes. On top of that we frankly pick & choose when it comes to source material mattering. The MCU hasn’t been “faithful” to the material since Ironman. Tbh most of the time these changes are for the better, & often improve on the character/ plots. Of course not all the time. I’ve grown a better appreciation for these characters because of these movies/ shows.
@@PillarofGarbage Done - see my analysis/thoughts above. Appreciate the opportunity to actually share ideas/thoughts in such a civilised way - and thank you again for such an interesting interpretation of the current situation.
@@mizushogun Those are just buzzwords. Have you ever stopped to think about what message they convey? If overt pandering IS why a person doesnt enjoy a certain product, its fair to state that. Lets use good ol´ She-Hulk as an example. The show was so fundamentally different from the 2008 Incredible Hulk Movie, that I find it hard to believe it was targeted towards the same segment of viewers. Where the 2008 movie "pandered" towards the viewers who enjoy mindless action, the show pandered towards an audience who wants lighthearted comedy with a slice of life. If thats not your thing(Hint: Its not for me) I see why you would be annoyed that the show "pandered" to a different audience, given that the Hulk franchise started off in 1 specific genre and then turned into another. Granted, I know She-Hulk isnt "just" a spin-off of the Hulk and has more in common with Deadpool, but I dont think the casual viewer knew that going in. Would I be correct to assume you havent read much of Marvel Comics and arent invested in the comic-book universe? I see that argument(that you cant adapt the comics correctly anyway) all the time from MCU fans, who never touched a comic and frankly, I think youre just straigh up wrong. No one is asking for a panel-by-panel//Word-for-word adaptation. Not even the Harry Potter movies did that. What they COULD do is stay true to the core of the characters traits and main arcs from the comics. Thor is so fundamentally different from his comic-book counterpart that they are the same character in name only. With Moon Knight, they invented an entirely new main character (Steven Grant) to sell the show. Yes, Steven Grants name is from the comics, but the character has absolutely nothing in common with the comic-counterpart. His name is a reference only. I´m glad you enjoyed the MCU and its characters. Personally, I enjoyed the comics way more. There´s a wackyness and sometiems seriousness to the comics the movies will never touch or acknowledge. I dont think the MCU version of these characters have made them better. They have changed them to fit a very disnified and lighthearted tone, that doesnt serve all the characters equally.
Holy... wow. I've never seen someone be so correct so much in 10 minutes. You went beyond the common discourse and even though I already agreed with your point, this explanation of where the other side even comes from makes your argument so incredibly strong and rooted in reality. No ideology, no jokes; just facts.
Well said! I always though this whole complain this people have with inclusion of diverse character, how they disrespect the original characters and are destroying the industry is pure hypocrisy, since the classic comics (which they claim to love) have been giving the spotlight to characters (including those who took mantle from previous white male ones) since the 70's/80's. The best exemple is Monica Rambeau, who not only was first female character to take over for Mar-Vell as Captain Marvel (a male white hero), despite not having any connection at all with the character unlike Carol, but was leader of the Avengers. How is this cool but modern stories terrible? Same goes for Carol who not only was close to Mar-Vell, but, after becoming Ms Marvel she became even more popular than him, with her stories dealt with topics influence by the feminist movement (at time, Carol was editor of Woman Magazine). How she becoming Captain Marvel makes her feminist icon, when she was all that before? It's been like this back then, it is now and it will continue to be like this in the future.
I think people have more of an issue with the writing and characterization of modern stories and the characters of said stories than diversity and inclusion itself, I believe that is the argument being made.
the difference between then and now is that then it was done with this sense of knowledge for the story and character(s), there was a natural flow to the idea being set out, a purpose, whereas now, diversity is a tool being manipulated and misused to the point of creating more division than enforcing unity.
@@upjohn1715 Except that characterization while not always great is far from what was before in comics from 60's (the ones these people praise over the modern ones), when characters were just real steryotypes. It was only in thr late 70's to 90's this character start to slowly grow when comes personality. Nowadays, new characters never gets this chance because these people are already at writer throats, demanging they bring the original characters to front and either kill or make the diverse character more cleary unlikable to prove their criticism right. Every time a writer tries to make diverse character, even when it's well written they are immediatly criticize for being "too perfect a" (usually the girls) having no flaws (bc this fans ignore the moments character show flaws) or and making the main heroes inferior, which just sounds like "Lex Luthor speech", a lame excuse to keep the original character status as the superior ones instead of risking being replace by others.
@@comics4life... If you think diversity nowadays is being manipulated and misused you should check the silver age/early bronze age ones, when diverse character were variations of previous white ones and many didn't have personalty or could barely hold their own book unlike the white male onesIt was only in the late 70's/80's these character start to grow and get more spotlight. . Even character who started as steryotypes got the chance to develop. Nowadays there many diverse character, all with their own books and stories instead of just being supporting steryotypes with no personality. Not all are perfect, but there goods ones and even those who aren't great still have potential to grow. As for the quality of the stories, there's no much difference. There good and bad stories now as there were in the past. Not every comic started great and stay great until now. It had it's ups and downs.
@Alexandre Frauches I disagree that new characters aren’t given a chance or that even if the these characters are well written they would be rejected as too perfect (aside from a small minority) the core of the issue is “Was that character written well or was that a badly written character or a mishandled character” This is the argument that keeps getting drowned out by both sides of this discussion.
I agree that it's easy for us to forget that the white, male, hetero, dominant image of media in US history is very much a deliberate construction. I had a great professor in college who told us once: "the 1970s is when many American universities started forming women's studies departments. And it's not because women were invented in the 1970s, it's because that's when the establishment started caring." The way the guardians of social power hold that power is by convincing everyone that they aren't doing anything. That it's actually the minority folks, the suppressed populations, that have an agenda and are trying to ruin things. Which when you think about it is obviously not true. The US isn't a theocratic ethno state. There are plenty of people who aren't white Christian men, and there always have been. The people who want to live in a theocratic ethno state NEED the narrative that diversity and inclusion are scary new inventions here to ruin your childhood. It's what enables them to keep their own agenda running smoothly.
Hey pillar of garbage just came from your kenobi video about plot holes and I wanted to ask if you ever thought about covering rebels ik this is a comic book video but if you ever had the time I think it might be interesting to go and revisit the wtrengths and weaknesses of it I see a lot of people hold up clone wars for being this masterpiece but rarely if ever discuss rebels and I just wondered why that was the case again thanks mate and keep fighting the good fight
Comics are often perceived to be this misogynistic space where women are only objectified and to an extent there is a lot of truth in that (superhero fandom is super-toxic). But the movies are often more conservative than the comics. If you look at the 80s, some of the bestselling comics were X-Men and New Teen Titans. X-Men had strong women on the team like Storm (a black woman who was treated with respect and received so much character development), Jean, Kitty Pryde (who was openly Jewish), Rogue, Dazzler, Psylocke, Jubilee etc. Over at DC, you had New Teen Titans with Raven, Donna and Starfire as the main women. All these women were treated with respect and got actual character arcs. It wasn't perfect (especially regarding ethnicity and LGBT-representation was almost non-existent) but I'd rather have messy representation where these women get arcs and attention than safe but shallow one where the woman are on the team to be badass but barely get any depth. If you look at the big comic franchises of the 2010s, it feels like we made steps backwards in certain respects. Black Widow was the only female Avengers for years, took forever to get a movie and barely received any attention for her own sake. Gamora was the Smurfette on the Guardians and Wonder Woman is still the only woman on the Justice League. There is no excuse for these Smurfette-teams if you had teams like X-Men, New Teen Titans or even lesser known teams like New Mutants and Excalibur being successful in the 80s. Just needed to get this off my chest as a female comic fan. Comics have a lot of misogynist history but it is more complex than given credit and the movies can be just as bad or even worse.
It’s crazy that kind of blatant discrimination is so recent. There are many people alive today that experienced it. That kind of cultural trauma doesn’t just disappear in a few decades and as I write this an even more insidious form of oppression is *still* taking place and yet the conservative position is “just get over it” Like dude my grandparents literally weren’t allowed to sit down and eat with other people. They weren’t allowed to work or live many places BY LAW and mfs are acting like that’s the same as a white dude not being able to say the N word with no reprecussions. I just... Idk about my country anymore. White men are truly the most oppressed people in America 🙃
Your grandparents were token minorities living in a nearly all white country. They were completely irrelevant to the culture and economy of the country. Did they not tell you that part?
Ever since I was a kid I've been complaining about the fact that Black Superheros have meh powers. Either electrical powers, reliant on some form of technology, or some super genius like Mr. Terrific. When you compare the big 4 Marvel monarchs to each other. Black Panther, Dr. Doom, Black Bolt, and Namor, you would have to agree that T'Challa's personal power set is pretty damn weak. Marvel has at least a dozen different white versions of Superman. Hyperion, Wonderman, Sentry, Hulk, Gladiator, Thor, etc and it took them 80 years to come up with Blue Marvel. The most powerful magic users are White, Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch, Reality warpers,? White. Wiccan, Franklin Richards the list goes on. In a world that's majority non-White this paradigm needs to change.
T'Challa is basically black Batman without the child trauma. His thing tends to be that he can beat anything and everything with the superpower of preptime.
Hey man, recently came across your channel and even though I don’t agree with everything you say, you have valid points of view and also good communication. Keep it up.
Thank you for beginning this issue this way, as unbiased and non-judgmental as you could think to be: the intention of objective analysis without childish, personally political outbursts masquerading as analysis like SO many of these UA-cam channels of angry complaining. It's SO refreshing to see someone NOT whining about the issue AND offering a way for fans to think about these things without negative emotional triggering. They often really do come across as overboard conspiracy theorists. I REALLY look forward to these series.
Love this perspective. I’ve never thought of it like that. I think it is also very important to recognize that the so called woke agenda or really any shift in representation in the media just fallows where the money is. The woke agenda is just the capitalist agenda or more accurately the capitalist way of thinking. Of cause all the diversity is a creative choice by the directors and writers of the movie and shows and not necessarily (not likely) a studio mandate or something like that, but the fact that the diversity goes through the Hollywood filter and is even encouraged and sometimes a specific part of the marketing is because it has become profitable. In this case it is not a bad thing of cause but the extreme commodification of art fucks with the creativity and creates bland corporate hegemony. In other countries where the filmindustrie is sort of subsidized and they don’t have to be profitable the movie landscape looks very different. Of cause none of the movies ever get hugely popular like they do in america (because they are not specifically made to be) but they are way less similar and standardized and instead usually more creatively free. Thats also why the movie language of american movies so different, since it is way more standardized. The art literally has to constantly fight for the right to exist under the capitalist agenda. If the culture becomes more progressive, we get more progressive movies, but if it regresses the movies do so as well.
The problem is not with diverse comcis, the problem is the narrative that you need to love those diverse comics or else. That you are labelled as some kind of -ist or -phobe, because they want to shame you into subbmission. Just obey! Dont ask questions, just buy and consume next product! Thats "the woke agenda", thats the problem!
Mainstream comics dug themselves into a hole by making non-diverse characters for so long that they feel the need to race swap or make a non-White character take a White character's mantle in order to be relevant or popular. But if comics were more diverse at least 40 or 50 years ago we wouldn't be having this whole "woke agenda" stuff now
@@snatched2348 The film industry's narrative, like that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Disney Star Wars sequels and the fans are just toxic manbabies. And strangely, recently every criticism for every movie is some sexist, racist attack from hateful bigoted people. Obviously claimed by the lazy creators who dont wants to take the responsibility for creating the shitty movies. Its so much easier blaming your failure on the toxic biased fans than admitting that you didnt made a quality product. Or apparently you are now a homophobic if you didnt seen the gay comedy Bros or you dont support black women if you dont go to watch the Woman King. Like how you were an incel and afraid of strong women if you dont liked Captain Marvel. And the list goes on and on with the weak excuses from the incompetent creators who wants to hold the illusion that they're actually good at their job. Or we have Pillar who just cant accept if people just genuinly dont like a "diverse" character and they just needs to have an ulterior reason for it. For him, it cant possibly be that the "diverse" character is poorly written or just simply unlikable. No, Pillar claims that everyone who dont likes Reva is a sexist, racist bigot or unconsciously brainwashed by the sexist, racist bigot propaganda. A little hypocritical to Pillar to say this, while he mocking everyone else who believes in that the "woke agenda" exist.
@@tamaspapp225 okay but that's not the point of this video, the video is explaining how we want real diversity in the comics not to use diversity to "push a narrative" most people just want diverse characters to have good representation in the media that doesn't mean it's pushing a "woke agenda"
Saw a grown man go on a racist rant in the comments about minorities taking everyones job because he saw they made April Oneil black in a ninja turtles cartoon movie 😂 Aliens laugh at us
The quality of MCU has gone down but not because of its diversity. The writing and choice of directors has to be addressed. I’m honestly scared for the release of the Marvels later this year-Brie Larson has become a hate figure on the right and with a female director at the helm AND a Muslim Ms Marvel. Well you can guess……
I'm sure it is bound to come up in future videos, but for all the complaining about woke SJW diversity quotas, the current diversity of the MCU has been bad pretty much up until phase 4. These guys had nothing to say on the matter of having 20 male led superhero movies in a row, instead spending 4 years and counting complaining about the first female led one. It took Marvel 17 movies before they would risk a black protagonist, something again that avoids the attention of those who think diversity is ruining movies. Similarly, the chuds complained forever about the "girl power" group shot in Avengers: End Game but ignored the fact that almost all of these women heroes were minor supporting characters, and Marvel had already killed of its most prominent woman hero (Black Widow) earlier in the movie. The shot was bad not because it was contrived and "woke", it was bad because it was totally unearned; the MCU was only pretending to be proudly progressive in the first place. That shot actually was a token gesture, but the people who forever complain about such things failed to see it as such.
Pillar why would you make a video so controversial yet so true? This was a great video talking about the problems that have changed but now have become a problem for others because they feel their are being oppressed due to "Wokeness"
Yes, Pillar totally ignores "the woke agenda" and mocks people for pointing that out. He just blames the "toxic fans" and says that everyone is racist or bigoted or brainwashed by the racist and bigot agenda. He totally ignores the toxicity from the film industry that wants to dictate what you can like and what not with their narrative. They literally try to shaming you into submission to go watch and pretend to like their movies. This is "the woke agenda" that the people talking about and Pillar intentionally ignores all together. That the producers literally demand love and admiration from you just because their movie fills the check boxes, not because the film is actual merit. Like that gay comedy movie called Bros, you are automatically a homophobe if you didnt seen it. Or you dont support black female movies if you didnt watched the Woman King. Or if you dare to criticize or not like any female or minority character you are some kind of -ist or -phobe. You dont wanted to be accused and called names? Just obey! Dont ask questions, just buy and consume next product!
@@mandalorianhunter1 As you can see in the video, the problem in the past was that the creators werent allowed to create their diverse product. The problem today that the viewers didnt allowed to their opinion, and the creators of the diverse product wants to dictate that for them. As I said above, the problem is not diversity but that you are forced to pretend to like every diverse product ever or else. As Plllar said in his previous video, you are a racist bigot or brainwashed by the racist bigots agenda if you dont like Reva. The problem is that for the people like Pillar its simply just cant be that you dont like a diverse character and you needs to be some kind of bigot. Thats the narrative that the people dont like, thats "the woke agenda"!
If were really being honest here, given Work has been such an overused deflector shield for a lot of things for the last few years. Nowadays what Woke translates to is "This isn't how I wanted this to be, so people have to hate this like I do😭😭🤧" Gimme a break Also, I like that you make this video because it proves that a lot of the problems people have with comic media nowadays have been going on for decades but people either have selective memory Or just don't do something called Research
I'm glad you're bringing up these issues. If I bring it up, people claim I'm using conspiracy theories and trying to diversified the comics history. This series could be multiple totaling hours. When Namor pronounced Namor in the movie, it's how I pronounced his name when i was kid until white kids "corrected" me.
Funny because people have been so spoiled by the lack of diversity for so long that they get pissed when something actually is diverse. A few weeks ago an entire comment thread attacked me because I laughed and criticized when the op suggested a diverse X-Men team that was 70% Caucasian. Even though I argued that the population of the U.S. isn't even 70% Caucasian, let alone the world, I was instantly attacked and accused of just wanting an all Black team. And suddenly I was "racist" by pointing out their bias and unfairness. Meanwhile, on the actual current X-Men roster there's only 2 non-White members...and I digress😕
I hated Namor in the movie the whole mesoamerican theme didn’t suit him at all. When I heard aquaman was gonna be polynesian or half I thought that was stupid but then I clicked… and thought now that makes sense. Namor should’ve been polynesian man or played by a Eurasian actor
CCA was a self policing by the comics so if there was discrimination it was by the comic companies themselves. If they weren’t telling certain stories it’s because they weren’t letting themselves tell them. The CCA wasn’t a government body.
Fredric Wertham wrote "Seduction of the Innocent" a book that attempted to explain how comics were corrupting the youth of the time. In it, one of his examples was that Batman and Robin were gay as they slept in the same bed and did not have any female companions. In reaction DC then introduced Batwoman and Batgirl to prove that they were as straight as can be. Just another example of how instead of representing the world and people as it exists (like comics do now), comics then only showed what a certain group of thought was best for their children to see (which was just straight, white, christian, men).
What people often don't say, is that the panel of Dick and Bruce is actually nothing more than a deception. On that panel, yes, it looks like it's a single bed.... Except if you look at the whole page, you actually see it's two separate beds, and it's only due to perspective that it seemed to be a single bed. It's even more ironic as you did have a comic showcasing an adult and a young kid sleeping in the same bed: Oliver and Roy (Green Arrow & Speedy). Except even then it remains dishonest. It was created by people for whom sharing a bed with their children was normal, because of economics. The economic situation of pre-40s didn't allow poorer families to have one bed(room) per person/couple; heck throughout history it tended to be a luxury for richer families. By the mid-fifties, this had changed, so you could manipulate people's ignorance, of richer backgrounds, and/or suffering from short-term memories, that there's something nefarious behind two people of the same sex sharing a bed. Oh yes, because another thing often not pointed out was that being homosexual was worse than being a pedophile when that book came out. Yikes. People also tend to forget the whole "no female companions" was partially untrue. Batman didn't have a superheroic female companion, but he already had love interests, on and off. Actually, Robin did have a one-issue superheroic female companion, who was arguably more competent than Bat-girl ever was for most of her Silver Age career, Roberta the Girl Wonder. (was most probably the proto-type used to create Bat-gir seeing their similarities as well) However, even during the golden age, being a woman in comics could be a challenge as despite her skills, and her never ruining any cases. Robin tricked her and shamed her to discourage her to continue her superheroic career solely to protect his own secret identity. And no, it wasn't written like doing that was a bad thing. The introduction of Batwoman and Bat-girl hardly even changed that within the comics themselves. Yes, DC tried to sell a "family unit" image with the "original Batfamily" on covers, with arguable pseudo-incest as it made Bat-girl and Robin love interests and siblings at the same time, but the dynamic was still on and off and had nothing "familial" within the stories themselves. All in all, this book was just an ill-intended and dishonest "critic", and it's tragic to see modern "critics" use similar tactics to try to kick down modern comics. Some things never change.
in media you are one of 2 genders male or political you are one of 2 sexualities straight or political you are one of 2 races white or political 2 religions christian or political and on and on
Damn from some of your video titles that have made it to my recommended, I assumed you were a critical drinker knockoff complaining about diversity in movies. I clicked on this one merely out of curiosity, to see how you would be against the actual fucking CCA by claiming it had a woke agenda. I was very pleasantly surprised to discover every one of my assumptions about you was wrong. Looking through your channel, I don't know how I ever got that idea of you, I just misconstrued a few thumbnails and titles. Earned a subscribers
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Christian Bale Says Hollywood (and the World) Would Be Better If ‘White Dudes’ Weren’t in Charge of Everything The actor says there would be "so much better films and so much more interesting stories" if white dudes weren't running Hollywood. Zack Sharf Dec 19, 2017
Christian Bale has had enough of “white guys” running everything in Hollywood and beyond. The actor stopped by AOL Build with his “Hostiles” co-star Rosamund Pike and Wes Studi on December 18 and told the crowd that the reason he moved to the U.S. in the first place was because he wanted his kids to grow up in a “country of inclusion.” Unfortunately, that ideal hasn’t been too much of a reality.
“Our culture will be so much richer the day that we stop saying, ‘Hey, it’s all white dudes who are running things,'” Christian Bale said. “Whether that be Hollywood, whether that be Washington, you know. We’re going to get, in Hollywood, so much better films and so much more interesting stories being told and America will become the America that the rest of the world sees it as, that makes it unique…that we recognize makes this such a beautiful, brilliant country.”
I don't think you can actually make the rate of fire faster for guns.
I didn't know he was like batman in real life.
I still remember the new mutants comics and how diverse the actual team was lead by an Asian female team leader, a biracial Brazilian, a indigenous woman with anxiety, a country boy from a poor mining town, a young orphan girl who suffered religious abuse, a Russian girl kidnapped by demons, tackled racism, abuse, conflicts between children and their parents, fear and insecurity
based new mutants
That's the team Sunspot and Magick is from right?
They also fought magic bears.
@@PillarofGarbage X-Men related comics in general were way ahead of their time. But sometimes they were not. Like the fact that karma's name isn't actually a real Vietnamese name😂
New Mutants is peak. The comic had some things that did not age well at all (Magma's introduction is cringeworthy) but it's a very diverse team even for today's standards. The movies can learn from it. Breaks my heart to see Roberto whitewashed (twice!) in live action.
Remember how the Hayes Code didn’t allow people to say the word “pregnant” on TV? 30s and 40s era moral codes were fuckin wild
Hayes Code was absolutely nuts, and I’d make a video on that specifically if there weren’t already Ten Billion of them
Trying to kill the earth then rule it what dark lords do=don't help by saying morality when it's slavery and communism when it's just russian/asian fascism.the criminal insane are sopisism encarnet and use they're own definitions.
Saints row and grand theft auto isn't what 99% of earth uses for freedom.
It's called evil everywhere else.
@@PillarofGarbage to be fair, i would still watch it.
@@PillarofGarbage It still could be good. Like imagining a story and humorously uing the code, th original code to, em cant be to abide by th "moral code"
@@PillarofGarbageid watch
"Maybe this recent push for inclusion is just the abscess of a previous agenda who's effects you've been taking for granted".
Now THIS is something I will be quoting for the rest of my life. Holy shit this statement is just perfect!
Came to the comments to say exactly this!
If anything, it is not the absence of an agenda, it's a REVERSE agenda. And overcorrection, if you will. It is hard to imagine someone watching modern movies and TV and not noticing that the implementation of diversity almost always feels inauthentic and token. I don't think it's that difficult to grasp. There are a few phenomenal exceptions. But pretending these films fail because America or The West in general, is just so "misogynist/racist/etc" is laughable at this point. You can't shame people into seeing things they don't like. It's time to stop pretending there's no legitimate way to criticize Hollywood's approach to diversity. The racial dynamics honestly felt healthier and more organic in the 80s and 90s. Obviously there was less representation, but it also didn't feel token or performative. That's a huge indictment on the current era, IMHO. But back then, we were still on the MLK beat, where we didn't ascribe ones moral standing based on where they resided on the "oppression" hierarchy.
Absence. As in not present. Not abscess, a collection of pus due to an infection. Although oddly abscess still works in a weird way.
One of the big examples I bring up to people is the John Stewart Green Lantern. Back in the day he was created because of a lack of black DC superheros. This again happened in the Justice League Cartoon and because many of us grew up with that show, John Stewart is a lot of people's favorite Green Lantern
Exactly, although the comic book John at first was just typical black steryotype and didn't had much of personality until stories like Cosmic Odissey and Mosaic developed him (even john ridley adressed this in his The Other History of the DC Universe). The DCAU version on other hand gave John a much better portrayal as this badass marine soldier.
Imo it's the opposite. In the 70s and 80s John had an interesting personality that worked as a foil for Hal. But after the JL cartoon his personality is "serious soldier".
@@frankorious534 Eh, he was a pretty annoying character when he was first introduced. He didn't become likable until after Cosmic Odyssey where his stupidity caused a planet to be destroyed.
@@alexandrefrauches132 Wan't his original portrayal an artist? How is that a black stereotype?
@@wakkaseta8351 Being a artist is not the same as having a personality. Thats the point I'm trying to make. When he was create John didnt much of personality except being a green lantern who is black (even his design was that steryotype similar to Luke Cage in the 70's) stories like Cosmic Odissey and Mosaic that John grow as hero, with the DCAU giving him his most defintive portrayal as this stern badass soldier
For me, the CCA was always a double-edged sword: It allowed kids to read comics that didn't traumatize them for life and caused the rise of Marvel superheroes, but at the same time it was very conservative and limited the ideas of the creative, not to say that it didn't do much for the minorities...
Well, now that I think about it, the bad edge is longer than the good edge. Glad that it's gone.
I mean... just put ratings on the comics like movies or games. Not the writers fault if like GTA and any horror movie the parent is either an idiot or doesnt care that the kid is looking at it.
Wdym "not to say it didn't do much for the minorities" the CCA has done nothing for minorities except repress the representation they were allowed to have in comics. The amount of queer representation people wanted to put in comics but couldn't because of the CCA puts the amount of queerbaiting in supernatural to shame.
Agreed,
Am still upset at the CCA for Batman & Catwoman relationship. Batman wasn't allow to have a successful relationship with Catwoman .Because he's the " hero" and she the "villain".
You want to see how much of impact CCA had on American comics. Read a European comic, a manga , and then read a comic from DC, Dark horse or Marvel comic. You quickly learn how behind the curve we are with our story telling in American comics.
Actually, the CCA forced comic book writers to be more creative, especially with trickier subject matter. The silver and bronze age of comics had some of the best stories of all comics. The modern age of comics (after the CCA was disbanded)is like modern art. The early pioneers were true visionaries who challenged the status quo but came from a traditional art background but soon turned into garbage like Piss Jesus or an unmade bed. Yes, those are real modern "art" pieces. The current crap you see today is the Piss Jesus of the comic book world.
@ Judofan
I agree , the CCA did force creativity. But, only because they took so much away. To point they limited story capability of American comics.
One of main reasons CCA was formed was horror comics. So, it really was a form of censorship.
But, that doesn't make current comics instantly good. You still need good writers .
And both CCA and current American comics craters are very similar. They both want it their way. And don't want to listen to the opinions of others.
It reminds me of how shocked I was at reading Ditko's Blue Beetle, because Ted Kord's love interest was a scientist with a good head on her shoulders! But of course worked for Ted because it was the 60's.
I do think it should be noted that Stan Lee did create characters like Black Panther, wanting to diversify, and in fact he helped break the Code with a Spider-Man comic. Heck, comic writers have been trying to add more diversity to comics for decades- look at characters like Black Lightning, Katana, or the fact Chris Claremont wanted Destiny and Mystique to be a couple, or the entire Milestone imprint.
The cultural amnesia regarding the effects of the Hayes Code, CCA, and McCarthism is ridiculous. Because why do people want to question their own world view they enjoy so well?
I mean there were so many things in Claremont's xmen that were very clearly gay that he couldn't say explicitly because of the CCA. Mystique and Destiny of course, whose relationship has been canonized. Kitty Pryde recently was confirmed to be bisexual, and despite her longtime "love interest" (technically it was all in subtext but they were clearly in love) Rachel Summers now being in love with someone else, it is also a woman, namely Betsy Braddock, and they had a full page panel of just them kissing and it's so cute I just want to AJDHYSJSB
The Comics Code is also a major reason superhero comics took off like they did. Horror and Romance comics were for the most part no longer allowed.
Yeah, this whole thing’s a mess of complexities - but even if the CCA may have helped superheroes become popular (because they of course did predate the CCA by many years) it’s sort of the genre’s ‘original sin’, and it needs to be considered.
That was the point. Marvel and DC were complicit in the code's creation and enforcement to get rid of their competitors!
@@EmperorSteele National Publications and Timely/Atlus were almost taken out by the code, how would they be complicent?
@@TupocalypseShakur I'm just regurgitating something I read like 10-15 years ago. Something about how the CCA was run, in part, by the comic publishers themselves. Think of it like Black Widow's reasoning for signing onto the Sokovia Accords: "At least this way, we still have a hand on the wheel". Either the comics industry policed itself, or laws were going to be made against them.
I'm so used to seeing garbage thumbnails whining about superhero media becoming more inclusive that I actually mistook this thumbnail and video title as yet another complaint about "non-white Namor," etc etc. Ie, that by "Diversity Problem" you meant you...actually had a problem with diversity, because that's how much people aren't hiding what they really think these days.
Then I saw it was by Pillar of Garbage. I wish more channels produced your kind of content. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Sorry for the confusion! Just did my best to make an eye-grabbing thumbnail that’d attract both viewers who know me and people who might not :)
THIS. I damn near deleted the whole video from my suggestions until I saw who made it😂
Thanks for this video and this is what your black brothers and sisters mean when they say "Systemic Racism and White Privilege". CCA is an illustration of how Systemic Racism works and directly harmed the black communities ability to become economically independent and kept us as bottom class for generations. It has long last effects to this day that majority of modern individuals do not comprehend.
Very funny timing of this video for me as I just wrote a research paper on the silver age and the comics code authority! The CCA decimated the comics industry and pushed comics companies to prioritize profit over creativity just to survive (a mindset they still have trouble leaving behind). Amazingly in spite of that creators still managed to create some of the most iconic characters and comics ever created but it's curious what direction the industry would've taken without the CCA. Woke is such a stupid term that serves no purpose except for being a lightning rod for hatred and I'm tired of seeing people take it seriously.
Sounds fascinating! Weird timing coincidence indeed!
“Woke” didn’t start out that way; it started out as a positive descriptor (though admittedly something of a self-congratulatory one) for people who actively paid attention to the problems in the world and tried to help fix them.
Then it go co-opted and turned into a right-wing buzzword yayyyyy…
Today the word "woke" basically acquired the meaning of "anything that the conservative and reactionary right-wing morons don't like". When you see it thrown around in any discussion, you know you're in for a """based""" take hahaha.
@@_somerandomguyontheinternet_ woke originated in black american communities as a way to signal you were aware of the systemic injustice that was happening around you. nothing self congratulatory about it.
perhaps without CCA the american comics industry would be more likely to manga industry or band desinée industry, much more diversified and mature
I hate how they’ve warped the meaning of woke and made it out to be something negative. It’s like a buzz word now😒… great vid tho as always
Actual woke is indeed awful. For example New Warriors. Woke is more of an action. Putting message over story then using the Kafka fallacy to deflect from criticism. Kafka fallacy is when you say disagreement is validation to your statement. A classic conservative Kafka is to say “women are all over emotional” so if you get mad at that at all they say you’re just proving them right. A woke Kafka is now how people will say white men are angry and rage filled, so if a white man responds negative to that statement at all it’s “see you proved me right!” It’s pretty simple people don’t want a story that calls them bad. The diversity itself isn’t bad at all, people love plenty of diverse characters, its about the writing and the story being told
I do agree with you that comics code authority was just horrible for the comic book industry as a whole and really didn't help anyone period in the long run.
This was a very well-written and educational video. I had no idea how far the effects of the cca reached in the mid 1900's, and it's saddening how discriminatory it was in a country that was much more diverse than they wanted it to be. I love that this video addresses the real agenda, to keep comics to the old conversative status quo, an agenda which unfortunately still continues today. So thank you for making this video, it's just an excellent analysis all around.
Thanks so much!
@@PillarofGarbage You're very welcome!
My favorite insane Comics Code detail is that criminal characters could not be shown benefiting from crime--for example, a villain who robbed a bank had to get caught by the hero before he could spend any of the money. It makes sense in a vague "Don't teach kids that crime pays" sort of way, but it was incredibly limiting to storytelling. It removed a lot of moral complexity (your villain can't rob a bank to pay for his child's medical care--or if he does, the kid has to either die or mysteriously receive a windfall from some unrelated source) and removes entire archetypes (good luck telling Robin Hood stories, for example). It smacks of rules written by people who don't understand how fiction works. Like parents today who complain about children's fiction that doesn't include active, benevolent parent figures. (Do you honestly think a good parent would let a child protagonist have life-threatening adventures?!)
All this because a psychologist claimed that Superman undermined children's respect for authority. 🙄
And then there is the writer of Wonder Woman doing his best to test that theory hard mode.
@@shikatsu To be fair, he was doing that before the Comics Code existed and before Wertham's book was published. And he had, uh, a lot of stuff going on all on his own...
Carol Danvers was created as a side character in the late 60s, but for the time, she was independent and career-focused. So when she became the editor of Woman magazine in the 70s, it seemed consistent with her personality, as did her confronting Jameson.
She also had terrible childhood, with abusive father, which explain how she became the tough badass hero she is. This themes of feminism were always present in Carol stories.
Shhh it doesn't fit the narrative.
@@AllPwrflSteve The caveat "for the time" is important. She was created as a romantic interest for the lead character, and she was depicted as a damsel in distress. Where the video suggests this is all she was, it loses important aspects of the character. She was created as something of a proto-feminist character. But it was still the 60s...
If I recall correctly, Carol Danvers' Miss Marvel was the first Marvel super heroine (or the first super heroine on general) that was openly referred to as a feminist. That background is fun to point out when people say "she was better before they turned her into a feminist".
@@Jean-Paul-Lane-Valley In Ms. Marvel, she was very much a feminist. And she was the first female superhero in Marvel to have her own comic book. So when she became the first female character to get an MCU film, it made historic sense. Marvel repeating itself
It can never be stated enough, the conditions surrounding somethings production is just as important as the particular thing. It feels like most “nerd” hobbies have this issue.
Nice to see an educated, well researched take on this.
I really love reminding conservatives that Superman is an illegal alien.
They tend to overlook such nuance.
And he is adopted, and the survivor of a mass extinction.
Some of the best commentary I‘ve seen on this topic! Kudos to you.
:)
Now when can we get an Asian man who isn't an absolute joke that isn't rich or a Kung Fu master.
Reggie Mantle in Riverdale
Wong
@@CRYSTAL_CUSTOMS Eeh... close enough.👍
Agents of atlas, Jimmy Woo
I mean you have manga and anime...with a VAST PLETHORA of Asian male characters...RIGHT THERE😂. And its mainstream too, ESPECIALLY today so you cant even say its being looked over or disregarded
Great essay. As a comics geek, a progressive and a history major, this video checks all the boxes for me. And it's a breath of fresh air from all the 'woke agendas are ruining everything' videos.
I totally agree.
I do think agendas are ruining things
But it gets really tiresome listing to different content say the same things over and over.
Loved the video and really looking forward to more in this series. Would love to see one on Commodifying Diversity because it often feels like the companies making superhero media (though not exclusively them, unfortunately) treat diversity as a commodity. On one hand, they like having it because it makes headlines and gets outrage clicks from reactionary weirdos. On the other, they dripfeed it so that they'll get the opportunity to pull the same trick again. Because if they normalised diversity, it would lose its sensationalist appeal. So instead you have a sort of artificial scarcity for diversity, keeping its value high.
Do you have any plans to cover this topic or a similar one?
beyond a couple of other loose ideas for topics I wanna cover at some point, I don’t really have any firm plans for this series, or how long it’s gonna last - so if it keeps going I’m sure I’d take a look at this angle sooner or later!
This. I hate how all these companies make a huge deal about adding one diverse character when they could've had a much more diverse cast to begin with but they just add one strong female or one LGBTQ person and act like they're really pushing boundaries while changing basically nothing and making sure all the scenes that actually show this diversity can be quickly snipped out of the movie when they send it over to China.
Fascinating that whilst we can write about elves, wizards, monsters, and superheroes living in the shires and galaxies far far away- crossing the line is making some of these characters people of colour😂😂😂😂😂😂
"I hate when comics get political!"
"Why yes, I do love The X-Men, why do you ask?"
Wow never knew about this. Thank you for enlightening me 🙏
As a member of the Alphabet Mafia I am always going to be biased towards stories that involve my people, I am just hoping that one day I can read about a hero who is casually a trans women. Wasn't a victim of abuse, isn't some caricature made to look like someone who is incredibly masculine dresses like a 5 year old girl. Just some badass who happens to take E every day
thank you very much for introducing me to the term ‘alphabet mafia’ lmao
@@PillarofGarbage glad I could provide you that information :p I love that term so much I gave out stickers with it on
Try Alters from 2018, I quite liked Chalice's journey and the superhero story is very interesting.
Most definitely. It benefits no one as instead of just trying to approach a topic usually nowadays we get shit shoved down our throats with ideas like Snowflake and Safespace
We need superheroes that are heroes who just also happen to be trans or whatever without it being abnormal or pointed out
OK, this is fucked up.
I knew that anglo countries had a dark past, but somehow from time to time I learn something more that makes me say "bruh". Two weeks ago I discovered what "Section 28" was, and now this.
yeah section 28 was a blight
Thatcher was an evil evil lady
As a minority, I definitely enjoy having diversity in comics. I think I only dislike it when it feels "marketed," rather than natural, like they're saying "hey, we're gonna make these diverse characters replace the old ones because that's what we think you want us to do."
That generally doesn't happen. The old characters are essentially forever.
What does happen, a lot, is for instance Iron Man's sales dropping, and Marvel going, "hey, let's kill him off, and bring him back with a lot of fanfare in a year or so". And while he's dead Riri Williams gets to take over the Iron Man book.
@@Carabas72 That's kinda what I mean.
@@OpticalSorcerer
Yeah, but the main goal here is not promoting diversity but preserving Tony Stark's long term health and sales numbers.
@@Carabas72 I mainly mean the "replacement" era. It happens a lot for characters; they get relatives, clones or sucessors who feel like their main purpose is replacement. It's weird.
@@OpticalSorcerer
I honestly can't think of a single character that has been replaced other than a very long series of failed Captain Marvels that includes two females ones before Carol Danvers.
I still remember when I was chatting with a Japanese friend of mine, who is a HUGE Marvel fan. Still, when I told him about the news of the new iron fist being Asian and the possibility of an Asian iron fist in the MCU, he was less than amused. He was pissed because he didn't mind Danny's race; he liked his character as this man who feels like a stranger in two worlds and got quite annoyed with another Asian being the martial arts expert and saw Marvel's stunt as lazy. I spoke with other Asian friends about the subject, and they surprisingly shared similar sentiments.
I don’t blame him because not only does this repeat a stereotype but there was no need for an Asian Iron Fist to begin with. Danny Rand was a cool character and people liked him in the comics why would Marvel want to change that? This is why I don’t like race changing or gender swapping already established characters, nobody likes sloppy seconds or table scraps.
I mean Iron Fist being an Asian defeats the purpose in the first place. K'un L'un have no love for outsiders and Danny being White makes it more tougher cos he's just a lost gaijin/gweilo to the people of K'un L'un. And in order to earn his place, he must adapt or die
Those words are Japanese (gaijin) and Cantonese (gweilo) degradatory terms which basically translates "Foreign Devil"
@@1eyeddevil929 exactly!
@@darkroninmarvelthen again I've seen white people in my country being called "Ang Moh Kui" growing up
It's a Hokkien Slur meaning, Red Haired devil. Targetted towards the Dutch at first then to all Caucasians in general.
Yeah most of Asia have a dash of xenophobia in them but it's now just the older generation mostly afaik
don't we have an Asian superhero, shang chi?
this video poses a good question, but it also feels like a depressing glimpse into the future. Lots of "woke" books being banned in Florida (and im sure other states) Floridas Government hyping some victory against the "woke Disney" (something to do with how the parks are run), I cant help but wonder how long till movies with "woke" and "CRT" themes to them, will need to be rated R, in some states.
eg: If the Black Panther movie was reviewed in the same way books are in Florida state education system, that movie would be banned. If those schools have any Black Panther comics, I would not be shocked if they have been removed from the shelves. If the school has Black Panther DVDs, im sure they to have been pulled.
This is a really important point to make and thanks so much for making it.
The comic code is back and it’s boss alt right UA-camrs claiming marvel is woke
You should do a video on mary sue cause I'm getting a sense of closeted misogyny when someone uses this term.
Nowadays mary sue don't even necessarily have to be an rgb neko wolf demon dragon goddess with 8 wings and a fox tail who has every elemental power in the world with a color palette of unicorn vomit. Now it's just characters (90% it will be a women) who are just powerful and have impressive feats, or just popular and important, or just woman protagonist doing protagonist things.
I think the term should just be retired. Nobody really agrees what it means, and it's not useful at all. If a character needs some reworking, there are better ways to talk about that than calling them a Mary Sue.
Thanks for this, my feeds been filled with a lot of the people who complain about diversity and only seem to engage with comics to shit on them. The title had me concerned but I’m glad I gave you a shot :)
Me too❤ ❤❤❤
Super excited for this series
Man this video is incredible and hopefully this gets enough views although I know some of the (conservative especially) comic book fans won’t listen to all of these facts cuz they will never accept the world changing and will just use the word “woke” if it’s not white male and straight enough or something.
Great video tho
This was a great video. Went into it expecting what I’ve heard before from other people, but no. This was well thought out, researched and identified a serious problem with how people view superheroes today. Great job! Gonna subscribe!
Thank you!
I think another thing isn't just what we have in the present, but ALSO how we are raised in the past. Children who are raised by parents with conservative, or centrist, or even liberal leanings tend to be more likely to see diversity as a huge issue in comparison to leftist or plainly progressive parents who have a more "live and let live" philosophy. And some parents are so strict with their right-leaning values they don't even let their kids see a whole lot of kid's entertainment unless its strictly puritanical and Christian. For me though, I would say the two specific things that got me thinking that not only is diversity no problem, but it can actually be cool were the DCAU and Boba Fett. I could have sworn Green Lantern was white usually when I saw episodes of Justice League Unlimited, BUT when I noticed they used a black man as GL, I didn't really mind or care. And eventually, John Stewart became one of my favorite characters in the cartoon, and to this day, he's still Green Lantern in my eyes over Hal. The second is Boba Fett. Before Mandalorian, we usually always saw Boba with his helmet on, and because he was seen as the ultimate male power fantasy, many people associated him with being somebody like Solid Snake or Kurt Russel when he took off the helmet. But then, I found out in the original EU when he took off his suit he was a black man, and then when parts of Legends got tossed out so Lucas could rewrite the Clone Wars era, he still kept Boba being a PoC with Temuera Morrison. Again, I didn't really care. My rationale was: "Okay. That's Boba Fett. Now I know."
I think the Anti-Woke/Comisgate shit may be creating a new generation of these knuckle-draggers, but still, the more generations continue, the more conservatives and reactionary mindsets tend to die. I think in direct opposition to those mindsets we have shows like She-Ra that embraced even more of the queercoding of the original by flat-out making most of the characters LGBTQIA, and stuff like Into the Spider-Verse which is very overt and clear in saying a superhero is a mantle just as much as it is a persona for one specific character, and with Miles, an African American Latino being the new Spider-Man, that's gonna make the idea other people can continue the torch of a classic hero more popular.
Man, Frederick Wertham was such a real life super-villain to the comic book industry
People just realized everyone from early comics was white, straight, and cis, and maybe they should change that up a bit
The late 90s and ESPECIALLY the 2000s did an AMAZING job of doing diversity cause the characters were just PEOPLE and their designs aka skin color was SECOND. Thats why you dont see ANYONE complaining about the representation back then.
But Mid 2010s and modern day act like that didnt happen and walk around with this annoying "SAVIOR" attitude thats just incredibly PRENTENTIOUS. The older comics for the most part actually understood NUANCE at least from what I've seen(Xmen, Black Panther) which is something a lot of writers today are too DAFT to understand
Its crazy we just GLOSS over this and jump to the 1960s...like for pete sake😭. Why do people act like the 2000s NEVER happened. Every show I watched as a child had organic representation and the characters just felt like people...didnt even notice that cause I was a CHILD and didnt care about crap like that...until I grew older...MAN I miss childhood😭
Today, the corporations are just USING the disenfeanchised to sell their products rather than actually caring about what they are selling which is the PROBLEM...theres no way anyone with eyes cant see thay.
"Thats why you dont see ANYONE complaining about the representation back then."
Yes they did, absolutely they did. The difference was that the Internet wasn't as big back then and the Alt-Right didn't exist.
4:54
Jesum crow, that quote gives more 4chan vibes than your average Harem anime.
"Maybe this recent push for inclusion is just the abscess of a previous agenda who's effects you've been taking for granted".
I think this might match how I feel on the debate, but for context, part of the problem of these discussions entail:
1. Acting like all modern comics handle "Woke" elements poorly, but just focus the rants on the titles getting attention. Sonic the Hedgehog and MMPR do so pretty well and aren't shy about inclusiveness.
2. Acting like entertainment Pre-2016 was 99% top quality and maybe 1% crap. And even those conceding otherwise still insist that say Chuck Austin's X-Men or Spider-Man One More Day is better cause it isn't Woke.
3. Well yeah, even if conceding that politics were heavy and weren't always nuanced, it's more the modern preaching that bothers them.
Basically the heart of the matter is them thinking "Well I'm not bigoted, so I don't deserve being preached at".
But it seems more like they think it's enough not to be directly antagonistic towards people of other races, gender or sexualities. Nit taking into account the danger of apathy.
Like if a woman (or anyone) is the victim of sexual assault, there is less of hatred spewed towards the criminal, but critique for the woman not dressing like a nun. Basically taking pressure off a sex offenders to change and even defending him.
Soooo I remember watching a videos that touched on the comics code and how strict they were but woooooooow. Clearly they didn't go in depth
CCA very evil indeed
This is SO GOOD. People are ignorant of things that led to what they're familiar with and just assume that's how it always was. They need to be shown the forces at work to establish the homogeneity they cling to as "normal".
And now we have the inverse. Funny how that happens.
I have to say that this is such an amazing reframing of the situation that provides a much more competant counter to this kind of retoric. And I think the important value of this is with those like you mentioned who are somewhat progressive but think of it as an overcorrection
Thank you for making this new series.
Thank you for watching it 😎
Thank you!!!! This needed to be said. Excellent video.
I loved this video, and I can’t wait to see where this series goes!
That said, I will note that there’s another misconception about Marvel, Star Wars, and other nerdy medium’s sudden onset of “wokeness”: it’s been there all along. Sure, repressed by the comics code, but even then and before then there were “woke” ideas being shown, and they’ve only gotten more prominent over time. It’s summed up in an excellent Facebook post by Kenny Boyle I saw:
“X-Men is about civil rights. If you didn't get that, you didn't get X-Men.
Black Panther is about civil rights. If you didn't get that, you didn't get Black Panther.
Captain America literally fought Nazis. He is the embodiment of fighting the alt-right. If you didn't get that, you didn't get Captain America.
The Empire in Star Wars is facist. The Rebel alliance are Anti-Facist. If you didn't get that, you didn't get Star Wars.
The Punisher isn't meant to be a role model for police or armed forces. So much so that the writers of The Punisher made him actively speak out against it in a comic. If you didn't get that, you didn't get The Punisher.
Deadpool is queer. He's pansexual. Fact. If you didn't get that you didn't get Deadpool.
Star Trek is about equality for all genders, races and sexualities. As early as the mid-60s it was taking a pro-choice stance and defending women's right to choose. One of its clearest themes is accepting different cultures and appearances and working together for peace. (It's also anti-capitalist and pro-vegan). If you didn't get that, you didn't get Star Trek.
Superman and Supergirl (and a whole host of other superheroes) are immigrants. The stance of those comics is pro-immigration and pro-equality and acceptance. If you didn't get that, you didn't get Superman or Supergirl.
Stan Lee said ‘Racism and bigotry are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today.’ If you're bigoted or racist, you didn't get any of the characters Stan Lee created.
The stories we grew up with all taught us to value other people and cultures and to treasure the differences between us. Only villains were xenophobic, or sexist, or racist, or totalitarian. I can't understand how anyone can have missed that.
If you're upset that there's a black Spider-Man, or a black Captain America, or a female Thor, or that Ms Marvel is Muslim, or that Captain Marvel was pro-feminism, or any of the other things right wing ‘fans’ say is ‘stealing their childhood’ - you never got it in the first place. The things you claim are now ‘pandering to the lefties’ were never on your side to begin with.
If you consider yourself a fan of these things, but you still think the LGBTQ+ community is too ‘in your face,’ or have a problem with Black Lives Matter, or want to ‘take the country back from immigrants,’ then you're not really a fan at all.
Geek culture isn't suddenly left wing... it always was. You just grew up to be intolerant. You became the villain in the stories you used to love.”
great job man on this very interesting video on this topic on superhero diversity problem
Personally, I've never really had a problem with "woke" media unless a character's ethnicity was changed for the sake of it. Representation can be done right in media. John Stewart was the main Green Lantern in the DCAU because executives wanted the Justice League to have at least one black member and his presence never felt forced or in your face, heck I've seen some people prefer him to Hal. Why is that nowadays whenever they introduce a diverse character in media they either get accused of being forced for not having flaws, or unlikeable for being flawed.
Because the people accusing them of that have a political agenda.
@@Peasham look at the new Peter Pan trailer and tell me that there isn’t a political agenda in it
@@garenthal9638 No more than the original story.
I eagerly await the arguments of those who disagree and who are able to assess your argument accurately, present pertinent evidence, and maintain the standards of logic and civility.
Hopefully they will come before I reach my 60th birthday, lol.
PS Nice video. Obliging the makers of comics to meet standards that are in effect racist, sexist, and otherwise bigoted and moralistic created expectations that persist to this day. Current comics that try to challenge those standards are often imperfect, and sometimes are kind of cringe, but it's worth doing anyway, and done as well as possible in current conditions.
ngl I’d be fairly impressed to see criticism that doesn’t just call me a woke shill, etc, that’s how most of it tends to look
I mean.. I can make the argument, but you arent gonna like and/or agree with it, because its probabaly fundamentally opposed to your world-view. Most of these arguments are based on preferences and feelings, so there isnt really an objective right and/or wrong point to it.
Here´s an example of such an argument: Movies should stick to the source material(the comics in this case) and thus not be concerned with the social unbalances that recreates, because its more important to visually and accurately recreate the source material, than it is to fit the movies to current day political and social standards((IE social representation has less value in media than source-material accuracy)).
Example: The Harry Potter movies (pretty much an all white hetero cast adopted straight from the books).
I dont think POG is a shill at all and I enjoy all his content. At the same time, I refuse to believe that an entire subset of the comic-book movie fandom is just straigh up racist and doesnt have a single valid point. Some of them? Sure. All of them? No.
"WOMAN BAD" obviously doesnt fly, but points like "I didnt like Layla in Moon Knight, because she stole valuable time from the protagonist in the final episode" or "I didnt like She-Hulk, because of the direction it took Bruce Banner" is a lot more nuanced and can absolutely be valid.
@@nielsfrederiksen6636 sure, but that’s not what they’re saying tho. There’s nothing wrong with genuine criticism. However if you starting saying things like “woke” “pandering” or “SJW” etc all of that is accusations. Plus the “follow the source” is valid, but also lacks nuance. Not every aspect of comics can be adapted to TV & especially Movies. We as fans often ignore the behind reasons for changes. On top of that we frankly pick & choose when it comes to source material mattering. The MCU hasn’t been “faithful” to the material since Ironman. Tbh most of the time these changes are for the better, & often improve on the character/ plots. Of course not all the time. I’ve grown a better appreciation for these characters because of these movies/ shows.
@@PillarofGarbage Done - see my analysis/thoughts above. Appreciate the opportunity to actually share ideas/thoughts in such a civilised way - and thank you again for such an interesting interpretation of the current situation.
@@mizushogun Those are just buzzwords. Have you ever stopped to think about what message they convey? If overt pandering IS why a person doesnt enjoy a certain product, its fair to state that.
Lets use good ol´ She-Hulk as an example. The show was so fundamentally different from the 2008 Incredible Hulk Movie, that I find it hard to believe it was targeted towards the same segment of viewers. Where the 2008 movie "pandered" towards the viewers who enjoy mindless action, the show pandered towards an audience who wants lighthearted comedy with a slice of life. If thats not your thing(Hint: Its not for me) I see why you would be annoyed that the show "pandered" to a different audience, given that the Hulk franchise started off in 1 specific genre and then turned into another.
Granted, I know She-Hulk isnt "just" a spin-off of the Hulk and has more in common with Deadpool, but I dont think the casual viewer knew that going in.
Would I be correct to assume you havent read much of Marvel Comics and arent invested in the comic-book universe? I see that argument(that you cant adapt the comics correctly anyway) all the time from MCU fans, who never touched a comic and frankly, I think youre just straigh up wrong.
No one is asking for a panel-by-panel//Word-for-word adaptation. Not even the Harry Potter movies did that. What they COULD do is stay true to the core of the characters traits and main arcs from the comics. Thor is so fundamentally different from his comic-book counterpart that they are the same character in name only. With Moon Knight, they invented an entirely new main character (Steven Grant) to sell the show. Yes, Steven Grants name is from the comics, but the character has absolutely nothing in common with the comic-counterpart. His name is a reference only.
I´m glad you enjoyed the MCU and its characters. Personally, I enjoyed the comics way more. There´s a wackyness and sometiems seriousness to the comics the movies will never touch or acknowledge. I dont think the MCU version of these characters have made them better. They have changed them to fit a very disnified and lighthearted tone, that doesnt serve all the characters equally.
Holy... wow. I've never seen someone be so correct so much in 10 minutes. You went beyond the common discourse and even though I already agreed with your point, this explanation of where the other side even comes from makes your argument so incredibly strong and rooted in reality. No ideology, no jokes; just facts.
Well said! I always though this whole complain this people have with inclusion of diverse character, how they disrespect the original characters and are destroying the industry is pure hypocrisy, since the classic comics (which they claim to love) have been giving the spotlight to characters (including those who took mantle from previous white male ones) since the 70's/80's.
The best exemple is Monica Rambeau, who not only was first female character to take over for Mar-Vell as Captain Marvel (a male white hero), despite not having any connection at all with the character unlike Carol, but was leader of the Avengers. How is this cool but modern stories terrible? Same goes for Carol who not only was close to Mar-Vell, but, after becoming Ms Marvel she became even more popular than him, with her stories dealt with topics influence by the feminist movement (at time, Carol was editor of Woman Magazine). How she becoming Captain Marvel makes her feminist icon, when she was all that before? It's been like this back then, it is now and it will continue to be like this in the future.
I think people have more of an issue with the writing and characterization of modern stories and the characters of said stories than diversity and inclusion itself, I believe that is the argument being made.
the difference between then and now is that then it was done with this sense of knowledge for the story and character(s), there was a natural flow to the idea being set out, a purpose, whereas now, diversity is a tool being manipulated and misused to the point of creating more division than enforcing unity.
@@upjohn1715 Except that characterization while not always great is far from what was before in comics from 60's (the ones these people praise over the modern ones), when characters were just real steryotypes. It was only in thr late 70's to 90's this character start to slowly grow when comes personality.
Nowadays, new characters never gets this chance because these people are already at writer throats, demanging they bring the original characters to front and either kill or make the diverse character more cleary unlikable to prove their criticism right. Every time a writer tries to make diverse character, even when it's well written they are immediatly criticize for being "too perfect a" (usually the girls) having no flaws (bc this fans ignore the moments character show flaws) or and making the main heroes inferior, which just sounds like "Lex Luthor speech", a lame excuse to keep the original character status as the superior ones instead of risking being replace by others.
@@comics4life... If you think diversity nowadays is being manipulated and misused you should check the silver age/early bronze age ones, when diverse character were variations of previous white ones and many didn't have personalty or could barely hold their own book unlike the white male onesIt was only in the late 70's/80's these character start to grow and get more spotlight. . Even character who started as steryotypes got the chance to develop.
Nowadays there many diverse character, all with their own books and stories instead of just being supporting steryotypes with no personality. Not all are perfect, but there goods ones and even those who aren't great still have potential to grow.
As for the quality of the stories, there's no much difference. There good and bad stories now as there were in the past. Not every comic started great and stay great until now. It had it's ups and downs.
@Alexandre Frauches I disagree that new characters aren’t given a chance or that even if the these characters are well written they would be rejected as too perfect (aside from a small minority) the core of the issue is “Was that character written well or was that a badly written character or a mishandled character” This is the argument that keeps getting drowned out by both sides of this discussion.
I agree that it's easy for us to forget that the white, male, hetero, dominant image of media in US history is very much a deliberate construction. I had a great professor in college who told us once: "the 1970s is when many American universities started forming women's studies departments. And it's not because women were invented in the 1970s, it's because that's when the establishment started caring." The way the guardians of social power hold that power is by convincing everyone that they aren't doing anything. That it's actually the minority folks, the suppressed populations, that have an agenda and are trying to ruin things. Which when you think about it is obviously not true. The US isn't a theocratic ethno state. There are plenty of people who aren't white Christian men, and there always have been. The people who want to live in a theocratic ethno state NEED the narrative that diversity and inclusion are scary new inventions here to ruin your childhood. It's what enables them to keep their own agenda running smoothly.
Hey pillar of garbage just came from your kenobi video about plot holes and I wanted to ask if you ever thought about covering rebels ik this is a comic book video but if you ever had the time I think it might be interesting to go and revisit the wtrengths and weaknesses of it I see a lot of people hold up clone wars for being this masterpiece but rarely if ever discuss rebels and I just wondered why that was the case again thanks mate and keep fighting the good fight
No immediate plans to cover rebels but that may well change in the future!
Reel has one of the best jedyi even, kanaan, and maul is interesting.
Comics are often perceived to be this misogynistic space where women are only objectified and to an extent there is a lot of truth in that (superhero fandom is super-toxic). But the movies are often more conservative than the comics.
If you look at the 80s, some of the bestselling comics were X-Men and New Teen Titans. X-Men had strong women on the team like Storm (a black woman who was treated with respect and received so much character development), Jean, Kitty Pryde (who was openly Jewish), Rogue, Dazzler, Psylocke, Jubilee etc. Over at DC, you had New Teen Titans with Raven, Donna and Starfire as the main women. All these women were treated with respect and got actual character arcs.
It wasn't perfect (especially regarding ethnicity and LGBT-representation was almost non-existent) but I'd rather have messy representation where these women get arcs and attention than safe but shallow one where the woman are on the team to be badass but barely get any depth.
If you look at the big comic franchises of the 2010s, it feels like we made steps backwards in certain respects. Black Widow was the only female Avengers for years, took forever to get a movie and barely received any attention for her own sake. Gamora was the Smurfette on the Guardians and Wonder Woman is still the only woman on the Justice League. There is no excuse for these Smurfette-teams if you had teams like X-Men, New Teen Titans or even lesser known teams like New Mutants and Excalibur being successful in the 80s.
Just needed to get this off my chest as a female comic fan. Comics have a lot of misogynist history but it is more complex than given credit and the movies can be just as bad or even worse.
Definitely a point worth making!
I love the story where Marvel wanted to publish an anty drug comic and got axed by the CCA because it mentioned drugs.
It’s crazy that kind of blatant discrimination is so recent. There are many people alive today that experienced it. That kind of cultural trauma doesn’t just disappear in a few decades and as I write this an even more insidious form of oppression is *still* taking place and yet the conservative position is “just get over it”
Like dude my grandparents literally weren’t allowed to sit down and eat with other people. They weren’t allowed to work or live many places BY LAW and mfs are acting like that’s the same as a white dude not being able to say the N word with no reprecussions. I just... Idk about my country anymore. White men are truly the most oppressed people in America 🙃
Your grandparents were token minorities living in a nearly all white country. They were completely irrelevant to the culture and economy of the country.
Did they not tell you that part?
Carol Danvers has ALWAYS been openly feminist. She was literally designed to resemble Gloria Steinem in Ms. Marvel #1
Nice really well done ihope more people see this video man
Ever since I was a kid I've been complaining about the fact that Black Superheros have meh powers. Either electrical powers, reliant on some form of technology, or some super genius like Mr. Terrific. When you compare the big 4 Marvel monarchs to each other. Black Panther, Dr. Doom, Black Bolt, and Namor, you would have to agree that T'Challa's personal power set is pretty damn weak. Marvel has at least a dozen different white versions of Superman. Hyperion, Wonderman, Sentry, Hulk, Gladiator, Thor, etc and it took them 80 years to come up with Blue Marvel.
The most powerful magic users are White, Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch, Reality warpers,? White. Wiccan, Franklin Richards the list goes on. In a world that's majority non-White this paradigm needs to change.
T'Challa is basically black Batman without the child trauma. His thing tends to be that he can beat anything and everything with the superpower of preptime.
I love your videos so much! You're such a breath of fresh air in this section of UA-cam. Keep up the fantastic work!! 😊
Well... It's not that I needed any further reason to despise the CCA, because I didn't, but yep there ya go.
Hey man, recently came across your channel and even though I don’t agree with everything you say, you have valid points of view and also good communication. Keep it up.
Thank you for beginning this issue this way, as unbiased and non-judgmental as you could think to be: the intention of objective analysis without childish, personally political outbursts masquerading as analysis like SO many of these UA-cam channels of angry complaining. It's SO refreshing to see someone NOT whining about the issue AND offering a way for fans to think about these things without negative emotional triggering. They often really do come across as overboard conspiracy theorists. I REALLY look forward to these series.
Love this perspective. I’ve never thought of it like that. I think it is also very important to recognize that the so called woke agenda or really any shift in representation in the media just fallows where the money is. The woke agenda is just the capitalist agenda or more accurately the capitalist way of thinking. Of cause all the diversity is a creative choice by the directors and writers of the movie and shows and not necessarily (not likely) a studio mandate or something like that, but the fact that the diversity goes through the Hollywood filter and is even encouraged and sometimes a specific part of the marketing is because it has become profitable. In this case it is not a bad thing of cause but the extreme commodification of art fucks with the creativity and creates bland corporate hegemony. In other countries where the filmindustrie is sort of subsidized and they don’t have to be profitable the movie landscape looks very different. Of cause none of the movies ever get hugely popular like they do in america (because they are not specifically made to be) but they are way less similar and standardized and instead usually more creatively free. Thats also why the movie language of american movies so different, since it is way more standardized. The art literally has to constantly fight for the right to exist under the capitalist agenda. If the culture becomes more progressive, we get more progressive movies, but if it regresses the movies do so as well.
Comics should have more diversity
The problem is not with diverse comcis, the problem is the narrative that you need to love those diverse comics or else. That you are labelled as some kind of -ist or -phobe, because they want to shame you into subbmission. Just obey! Dont ask questions, just buy and consume next product! Thats "the woke agenda", thats the problem!
Mainstream comics dug themselves into a hole by making non-diverse characters for so long that they feel the need to race swap or make a non-White character take a White character's mantle in order to be relevant or popular. But if comics were more diverse at least 40 or 50 years ago we wouldn't be having this whole "woke agenda" stuff now
@@tamaspapp225 what narrative are you talking about???
@@snatched2348 The film industry's narrative, like that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Disney Star Wars sequels and the fans are just toxic manbabies. And strangely, recently every criticism for every movie is some sexist, racist attack from hateful bigoted people. Obviously claimed by the lazy creators who dont wants to take the responsibility for creating the shitty movies. Its so much easier blaming your failure on the toxic biased fans than admitting that you didnt made a quality product.
Or apparently you are now a homophobic if you didnt seen the gay comedy Bros or you dont support black women if you dont go to watch the Woman King. Like how you were an incel and afraid of strong women if you dont liked Captain Marvel. And the list goes on and on with the weak excuses from the incompetent creators who wants to hold the illusion that they're actually good at their job.
Or we have Pillar who just cant accept if people just genuinly dont like a "diverse" character and they just needs to have an ulterior reason for it. For him, it cant possibly be that the "diverse" character is poorly written or just simply unlikable. No, Pillar claims that everyone who dont likes Reva is a sexist, racist bigot or unconsciously brainwashed by the sexist, racist bigot propaganda. A little hypocritical to Pillar to say this, while he mocking everyone else who believes in that the "woke agenda" exist.
@@tamaspapp225 okay but that's not the point of this video, the video is explaining how we want real diversity in the comics not to use diversity to "push a narrative" most people just want diverse characters to have good representation in the media that doesn't mean it's pushing a "woke agenda"
Saw a grown man go on a racist rant in the comments about minorities taking everyones job because he saw they made April Oneil black in a ninja turtles cartoon movie 😂 Aliens laugh at us
The quality of MCU has gone down but not because of its diversity. The writing and choice of directors has to be addressed.
I’m honestly scared for the release of the Marvels later this year-Brie Larson has become a hate figure on the right and with a female director at the helm AND a Muslim Ms Marvel. Well you can guess……
The hilarious thing is that folks somehow hate her more than Ezra Miller.
@@ShadowSonic2They hate women more than pretty much anything else.
It's the core of their ideology
I'm sure it is bound to come up in future videos, but for all the complaining about woke SJW diversity quotas, the current diversity of the MCU has been bad pretty much up until phase 4. These guys had nothing to say on the matter of having 20 male led superhero movies in a row, instead spending 4 years and counting complaining about the first female led one. It took Marvel 17 movies before they would risk a black protagonist, something again that avoids the attention of those who think diversity is ruining movies.
Similarly, the chuds complained forever about the "girl power" group shot in Avengers: End Game but ignored the fact that almost all of these women heroes were minor supporting characters, and Marvel had already killed of its most prominent woman hero (Black Widow) earlier in the movie. The shot was bad not because it was contrived and "woke", it was bad because it was totally unearned; the MCU was only pretending to be proudly progressive in the first place. That shot actually was a token gesture, but the people who forever complain about such things failed to see it as such.
"Almost immeadiately Sue Storm becomes Sue Richards" And by almost immeadiately you mean 4 years and 50 issues later.
yes
@@PillarofGarbage Weird definition of immeadiately. Most modern comics can't even last 50 issues.
@@AllPwrflSteve
That's because the distribution was a very different game back then. Actual quality of comics has gone up massively.
Pillar why would you make a video so controversial yet so true?
This was a great video talking about the problems that have changed but now have become a problem for others because they feel their are being oppressed due to "Wokeness"
Yes, Pillar totally ignores "the woke agenda" and mocks people for pointing that out. He just blames the "toxic fans" and says that everyone is racist or bigoted or brainwashed by the racist and bigot agenda. He totally ignores the toxicity from the film industry that wants to dictate what you can like and what not with their narrative. They literally try to shaming you into submission to go watch and pretend to like their movies. This is "the woke agenda" that the people talking about and Pillar intentionally ignores all together.
That the producers literally demand love and admiration from you just because their movie fills the check boxes, not because the film is actual merit. Like that gay comedy movie called Bros, you are automatically a homophobe if you didnt seen it. Or you dont support black female movies if you didnt watched the Woman King. Or if you dare to criticize or not like any female or minority character you are some kind of -ist or -phobe. You dont wanted to be accused and called names? Just obey! Dont ask questions, just buy and consume next product!
@@tamaspapp225 wasn't it like that way back then?
take note: tamás isn’t talking about anything in this video specifically, because it’s pretty inarguable lol
@@PillarofGarbage yeah I know he's just ranting to the void
@@mandalorianhunter1
As you can see in the video, the problem in the past was that the creators werent allowed to create their diverse product.
The problem today that the viewers didnt allowed to their opinion, and the creators of the diverse product wants to dictate that for them.
As I said above, the problem is not diversity but that you are forced to pretend to like every diverse product ever or else. As Plllar said in his previous video, you are a racist bigot or brainwashed by the racist bigots agenda if you dont like Reva. The problem is that for the people like Pillar its simply just cant be that you dont like a diverse character and you needs to be some kind of bigot. Thats the narrative that the people dont like, thats "the woke agenda"!
I can't wait to see more. You're doing incredible work!
The Hays Code could also be a video topic.
If were really being honest here, given Work has been such an overused deflector shield for a lot of things for the last few years. Nowadays what Woke translates to is "This isn't how I wanted this to be, so people have to hate this like I do😭😭🤧" Gimme a break
Also, I like that you make this video because it proves that a lot of the problems people have with comic media nowadays have been going on for decades but people either have selective memory Or just don't do something called Research
I'm glad you're bringing up these issues. If I bring it up, people claim I'm using conspiracy theories and trying to diversified the comics history.
This series could be multiple totaling hours.
When Namor pronounced Namor in the movie, it's how I pronounced his name when i was kid until white kids "corrected" me.
this series could be days long haha
9:08 Awfully bold of you to assume I read titles before clicking on your videos
gigabased abigfavor
Sees title, furrows brow, then remembers whose channel this is.
Funny because people have been so spoiled by the lack of diversity for so long that they get pissed when something actually is diverse. A few weeks ago an entire comment thread attacked me because I laughed and criticized when the op suggested a diverse X-Men team that was 70% Caucasian. Even though I argued that the population of the U.S. isn't even 70% Caucasian, let alone the world, I was instantly attacked and accused of just wanting an all Black team. And suddenly I was "racist" by pointing out their bias and unfairness. Meanwhile, on the actual current X-Men roster there's only 2 non-White members...and I digress😕
You nailed it.👍
Great video!
Thanks!
I loved this one. Thank you 🙏
Great video man really enjoyed it 🤝🏾
I hated Namor in the movie the whole mesoamerican theme didn’t suit him at all. When I heard aquaman was gonna be polynesian or half I thought that was stupid but then I clicked… and thought now that makes sense. Namor should’ve been polynesian man or played by a Eurasian actor
CCA was a self policing by the comics so if there was discrimination it was by the comic companies themselves. If they weren’t telling certain stories it’s because they weren’t letting themselves tell them. The CCA wasn’t a government body.
This video is amazing
Fredric Wertham wrote "Seduction of the Innocent" a book that attempted to explain how comics were corrupting the youth of the time. In it, one of his examples was that Batman and Robin were gay as they slept in the same bed and did not have any female companions. In reaction DC then introduced Batwoman and Batgirl to prove that they were as straight as can be. Just another example of how instead of representing the world and people as it exists (like comics do now), comics then only showed what a certain group of thought was best for their children to see (which was just straight, white, christian, men).
What people often don't say, is that the panel of Dick and Bruce is actually nothing more than a deception. On that panel, yes, it looks like it's a single bed.... Except if you look at the whole page, you actually see it's two separate beds, and it's only due to perspective that it seemed to be a single bed.
It's even more ironic as you did have a comic showcasing an adult and a young kid sleeping in the same bed: Oliver and Roy (Green Arrow & Speedy). Except even then it remains dishonest. It was created by people for whom sharing a bed with their children was normal, because of economics. The economic situation of pre-40s didn't allow poorer families to have one bed(room) per person/couple; heck throughout history it tended to be a luxury for richer families. By the mid-fifties, this had changed, so you could manipulate people's ignorance, of richer backgrounds, and/or suffering from short-term memories, that there's something nefarious behind two people of the same sex sharing a bed.
Oh yes, because another thing often not pointed out was that being homosexual was worse than being a pedophile when that book came out. Yikes.
People also tend to forget the whole "no female companions" was partially untrue. Batman didn't have a superheroic female companion, but he already had love interests, on and off. Actually, Robin did have a one-issue superheroic female companion, who was arguably more competent than Bat-girl ever was for most of her Silver Age career, Roberta the Girl Wonder. (was most probably the proto-type used to create Bat-gir seeing their similarities as well) However, even during the golden age, being a woman in comics could be a challenge as despite her skills, and her never ruining any cases. Robin tricked her and shamed her to discourage her to continue her superheroic career solely to protect his own secret identity. And no, it wasn't written like doing that was a bad thing.
The introduction of Batwoman and Bat-girl hardly even changed that within the comics themselves. Yes, DC tried to sell a "family unit" image with the "original Batfamily" on covers, with arguable pseudo-incest as it made Bat-girl and Robin love interests and siblings at the same time, but the dynamic was still on and off and had nothing "familial" within the stories themselves.
All in all, this book was just an ill-intended and dishonest "critic", and it's tragic to see modern "critics" use similar tactics to try to kick down modern comics. Some things never change.
Will you still be doing a video on X-Men Evolution Season 4?
in media you are one of 2 genders male or political
you are one of 2 sexualities straight or political
you are one of 2 races white or political
2 religions christian or political
and on and on
Great stuff
1:15 Wasp. Uh huh. Very cleverly done.
I agree with you Pilar of garbage 🤷♂️. ❤️ These people are 30 to 40 they don't care about movies or video games
Damn from some of your video titles that have made it to my recommended, I assumed you were a critical drinker knockoff complaining about diversity in movies. I clicked on this one merely out of curiosity, to see how you would be against the actual fucking CCA by claiming it had a woke agenda.
I was very pleasantly surprised to discover every one of my assumptions about you was wrong. Looking through your channel, I don't know how I ever got that idea of you, I just misconstrued a few thumbnails and titles. Earned a subscribers
Glad that confusion is cleared up :D
Brilliant video
Great Work!