Wow this is such a great tutorial! I’ve had this project on the back burner for a decade and am now thinking how to attack it… and your approach is how I pictured it going. The toilet flange is a brilliant little enhancement to make the job just all that much better. Thanks for the inspiration!
Thank you for the great and easy to follow video. A couple of questions. Based on the diameter of the PEX/Foam insulation, how much bigger is the PVC pipe? I have a 900 ft run that will be mostly above ground due to the terrain - I cannot get 18 inches deep. be done in 2 sections due to the limitations of the Heating cable and my plan was to lay the PVC first and pull the Insulated PEX through it - is that a mistake? Should I do what you did and slide each section of PVC individually after the PEX is in place? Thanks, James
I have been meaning to bring this up to many folks especially the physicists and I have yet to get a genuine answer for it. This is my own personal observation and experience. I have a two car deteched garage and live in Easter Washington State. We can get pretty cold. This year we had temperature drop to about 10 deg F for two weeks to give an idea. So what is my story? I have always noticed that I have had jugs of water in the garage for one reason or another just been left in garage forgotten etc. In fact at any single year through the winter there has been some container with water in it. Moral of the story. I have never seen any of it ever frozen and I mean in the heart cold winter. In fact this past winter I actually paid close attention and in fact I placed cups and glasses of water in the garage.... at ranodom areas inside the garage, by the door, over the counter etc,.. never once any of it was forzen. even remotely frozen. Why? Whatever the answer is ( which I do have my own opinion). Based on that I can and like to conclude that one can actually stop pipes from freezen even outside without heat tape. But how? My opinion is... instead of heat tape, one can just install a large diameter pipe over that water pipe with insulation that is not desne like the ones thay sell. LIke the one you have installed for instance. The outer pipe should be large, say 10 inches and then gently feed it with home wall insulatoin type. Paying close attention not to pack it. In other words... it translates to this: Air and especially dry still air is a poor conductor. So all that still iar inside the piple will not transfer to outside air through that still air inside with all the fluff insulation. And furthemore the wall of outside pipe acts as barrier just like the walls of the garage is. There is sufficient insulation that the water just won't freeze. However some physicists have the explanation that the Earth, the ground of the garaage conducts heat from under the ground and heat from there rising, the natural geothermoheat rising and gets trapped in the garage....... One should make a note that the garage has concrete floor.....
I had to redo my water pipe.from my well new pump.my pipe is covered all the way to house with insulation pipe.square insulation then rocks.at end of house sticking out.it has round insulation house insulation then plastic.tapped on..no electric tape..this was doing good for several yrs even in winter.aboutb3 or so yrs.but this yr it froze..now I'm told to use space heater???
i didnt use the tape wrap but i put the frost king heat cable under the bottom of pvc pipe with electric tape. then put the foam insulation (the kind that looks like a noodle) over that. i keep hearing mixed answer that the foam will catch on fire and wont catch on fire
Well, your setup certainly could catch fire. The risk is significant because the Frost King tape is not self regulating. Yes, it does have a little disk that's made to detect the temperature of the pipe and shut power off, but if this thermo-control disk gets separated from the pipe, and especially if the disk is outside the insulation and the tape is under the insulation, the tape will definitely overheat. This is why cables like these are sold with instructions not to install them under insulation. I've intentionally done this to the kind of tape that Frost King is, and it turns the insulation into a melted mess that smells like a chemical fire. I didn't let it go on long enough to have internal short circuits, but that kind of thing never ends well. Whether or not things go bad depend on how overheated the cable gets. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but what I explain here has been my experience. Bye for now and thanks for watching. Steve
@@baileylineroad thanks for the info, i was thinking the same thing to. my installer is a retired guy. hes certified in electric and furnace stuff. but some of this new stuff is kinda new to him. hes use to using heating tape in the past on many projects but he never saw this kind with a thermostat, and its the only kind home depot sold. he said the old kind ran at a low degree constantly. he said it should be fine, he called the place because the instruction booklet is very minmal. they said basically itll run, until it malfuntions. my fear/issue is the same as what you said, the malfunction could result to fire. my installer said itll just stop working when it fails. but im really picky when it comes to this stuff so i think i may unplug it and not use it at all. the pvc pipe is wrapped with the foam insulation and i think thatll be enough to keep it unfrozen once i unplug the heat cable, i dont think it got cold enough since instal to kick on. my setup before was the clear tube that came with the condensate pump, had no wrap on it at all. and the furnace is only a year old and the original company wouldnt come back to fix their mistake. i also asked to hook a gfci up and he said i didnt really need one, but my fear again was the tape malfunctioning and hoping the gfci would pop. so hes going to put one in. but i think i still will feel better just unplugging the heat cable.
Another good video! A question though, in the background you show the beat trace that is within the water pipe (looks like the well pump feed), would this not have been more ideal?
I actually wasn't paying attention at first. I thought this is underground pipe to some shallow depth perhaps and such an insulation effort would be overkill. From the look of it, it is set up above ground and this is done to save on labor of digging a trench to bury the pipe. I think it would be far cheaper if one just digs a simple trench. The heating tape apparatus along with the insulation and then another pipe over it adds up to some expense.
Hi Blue Ocean! You're right about it being cheaper to bury pipe, but that's not always possible. This technology is primarily for sites that don't have enough soil above bedrock to protect against freezing. There are other applications, too, but shallow soil situations are the primary ones. Thanks for watching, Steve
Hello and thanks for your comment. You're right about foam insulation in all cases but one that I know of. The stuff I install in this video is specifically rated for use under foam insulation. The reason is the self-regulating heating cable. It never overheats because it has what amounts to a built in thermo-safety feature. This cable controls its own heat output variably along its length. This feature applies even if you don't use a thermostat. Drop by my website baileylineroad.com for a visit sometime. You'll find lots of stuff there, including tool giveaways, articles and videos of interest to hands-on, how-to people. I've got a generator giveaway on the go now. Bye for now and thanks for watching! Steve
interesting, so why not just dig that sucker down below the frost line and not worry about it.... all our pipes are 7' below grade, -40C here, no probs...
Now wouldn't it be ? Let's address it as easier ??? To do this !! At the time the actual pipe was installed ?? And use metal brackets and concrete ??? Just saying ??? Hope you don't have a dog ???
Wow this is such a great tutorial! I’ve had this project on the back burner for a decade and am now thinking how to attack it… and your approach is how I pictured it going. The toilet flange is a brilliant little enhancement to make the job just all that much better. Thanks for the inspiration!
What system/therm. was this? Thank you for your time sir.
Great video and great work. Seems like a lot of work. Idk why I'm even watching this as I live in Louisiana and we only bury ours about 12 inches.
A Canadian invention! Props to Lorne!
Thank you for the great and easy to follow video. A couple of questions. Based on the diameter of the PEX/Foam insulation, how much bigger is the PVC pipe? I have a 900 ft run that will be mostly above ground due to the terrain - I cannot get 18 inches deep. be done in 2 sections due to the limitations of the Heating cable and my plan was to lay the PVC first and pull the Insulated PEX through it - is that a mistake? Should I do what you did and slide each section of PVC individually after the PEX is in place? Thanks, James
How much is this tape??where to get it??
Hey excellent work
Nice tutorial
Ali tape is perfect idea 👌🏼
Nice job. Thank you!
Thank you.. great help and just subscribed
Awesome, thank you!
How far was this line? I need to do a 300ft run. Would this cable work?
I'm in a similar situation and was wondering the same thing
how much does this system cost?
Isnt that polyethylene pipe wrap flammable?
I have been meaning to bring this up to many folks especially the physicists and I have yet to get a genuine answer for it.
This is my own personal observation and experience.
I have a two car deteched garage and live in Easter Washington State. We can get pretty cold. This year we had temperature drop to about 10 deg F for two weeks to give an idea.
So what is my story?
I have always noticed that I have had jugs of water in the garage for one reason or another just been left in garage forgotten etc. In fact at any single year through the winter there has been some container with water in it.
Moral of the story. I have never seen any of it ever frozen and I mean in the heart cold winter.
In fact this past winter I actually paid close attention and in fact I placed cups and glasses of water in the garage.... at ranodom areas inside the garage, by the door, over the counter etc,.. never once any of it was forzen. even remotely frozen.
Why?
Whatever the answer is ( which I do have my own opinion). Based on that I can and like to conclude that one can actually stop pipes from freezen even outside without heat tape. But how?
My opinion is... instead of heat tape, one can just install a large diameter pipe over that water pipe with insulation that is not desne like the ones thay sell. LIke the one you have installed for instance.
The outer pipe should be large, say 10 inches and then gently feed it with home wall insulatoin type. Paying close attention not to pack it.
In other words... it translates to this: Air and especially dry still air is a poor conductor. So all that still iar inside the piple will not transfer to outside air through that still air inside with all the fluff insulation. And furthemore the wall of outside pipe acts as barrier just like the walls of the garage is. There is sufficient insulation that the water just won't freeze.
However some physicists have the explanation that the Earth, the ground of the garaage conducts heat from under the ground and heat from there rising, the natural geothermoheat rising and gets trapped in the garage.......
One should make a note that the garage has concrete floor.....
Is that insulation fire resistant?
Thanks for the good, informative video. Mice can chew through metal, however. But rigid foam should have good insulation value at least.
Great video! Can you tell us the brand/model of the thermostat you're using?
Usually built in to heat tape if not get a frost stat
I had to redo my water pipe.from my well new pump.my pipe is covered all the way to house with insulation pipe.square insulation then rocks.at end of house sticking out.it has round insulation house insulation then plastic.tapped on..no electric tape..this was doing good for several yrs even in winter.aboutb3 or so yrs.but this yr it froze..now I'm told to use space heater???
i didnt use the tape wrap but i put the frost king heat cable under the bottom of pvc pipe with electric tape. then put the foam insulation (the kind that looks like a noodle) over that. i keep hearing mixed answer that the foam will catch on fire and wont catch on fire
Well, your setup certainly could catch fire. The risk is significant because the Frost King tape is not self regulating. Yes, it does have a little disk that's made to detect the temperature of the pipe and shut power off, but if this thermo-control disk gets separated from the pipe, and especially if the disk is outside the insulation and the tape is under the insulation, the tape will definitely overheat. This is why cables like these are sold with instructions not to install them under insulation. I've intentionally done this to the kind of tape that Frost King is, and it turns the insulation into a melted mess that smells like a chemical fire. I didn't let it go on long enough to have internal short circuits, but that kind of thing never ends well. Whether or not things go bad depend on how overheated the cable gets. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but what I explain here has been my experience.
Bye for now and thanks for watching.
Steve
@@baileylineroad thanks for the info, i was thinking the same thing to. my installer is a retired guy. hes certified in electric and furnace stuff. but some of this new stuff is kinda new to him. hes use to using heating tape in the past on many projects but he never saw this kind with a thermostat, and its the only kind home depot sold. he said the old kind ran at a low degree constantly. he said it should be fine, he called the place because the instruction booklet is very minmal. they said basically itll run, until it malfuntions. my fear/issue is the same as what you said, the malfunction could result to fire. my installer said itll just stop working when it fails. but im really picky when it comes to this stuff so i think i may unplug it and not use it at all. the pvc pipe is wrapped with the foam insulation and i think thatll be enough to keep it unfrozen once i unplug the heat cable, i dont think it got cold enough since instal to kick on. my setup before was the clear tube that came with the condensate pump, had no wrap on it at all. and the furnace is only a year old and the original company wouldnt come back to fix their mistake. i also asked to hook a gfci up and he said i didnt really need one, but my fear again was the tape malfunctioning and hoping the gfci would pop. so hes going to put one in. but i think i still will feel better just unplugging the heat cable.
Another good video!
A question though, in the background you show the beat trace that is within the water pipe (looks like the well pump feed), would this not have been more ideal?
I'm told salt baking soda n acc poured in drain then add hot water slowly.??
I actually wasn't paying attention at first. I thought this is underground pipe to some shallow depth perhaps and such an insulation effort would be overkill.
From the look of it, it is set up above ground and this is done to save on labor of digging a trench to bury the pipe.
I think it would be far cheaper if one just digs a simple trench. The heating tape apparatus along with the insulation and then another pipe over it adds up to some expense.
Hi Blue Ocean!
You're right about it being cheaper to bury pipe, but that's not always possible. This technology is primarily for sites that don't have enough soil above bedrock to protect against freezing. There are other applications, too, but shallow soil situations are the primary ones.
Thanks for watching,
Steve
how do you replace the heating cable when it goes bad?
Raychem heat tape is rated for 25 years I think
what's the name of the brand of heating cable? thanks
I believe its Retro Line out of Toronto.
Did you guys forget to install the thermostat?
I thought Heatline's water line heater was designed to go inside the pipe?
No
Yes heat line is designed to go inside the sewer pipe I don’t know why it’s been applied on the outside. We just purchased one.
Refer to the heat line installation video
All sites say do NOT USE foam insulation near heating tape. Only use non flammable material
Hello and thanks for your comment. You're right about foam insulation in all cases but one that I know of. The stuff I install in this video is specifically rated for use under foam insulation. The reason is the self-regulating heating cable. It never overheats because it has what amounts to a built in thermo-safety feature. This cable controls its own heat output variably along its length. This feature applies even if you don't use a thermostat.
Drop by my website baileylineroad.com for a visit sometime. You'll find lots of stuff there, including tool giveaways, articles and videos of interest to hands-on, how-to people. I've got a generator giveaway on the go now.
Bye for now and thanks for watching!
Steve
interesting, so why not just dig that sucker down below the frost line and not worry about it.... all our pipes are 7' below grade, -40C here, no probs...
@@trinitytoo should be able to rent a rock cutting machine or I'm sure you could find a specialist to dig it, just not sure of the cost.
@@trinitytoo yeah, that makes sense. It's a cost thing.
Put tape it doesn’t stay
Now wouldn't it be ? Let's address it as easier ??? To do this !! At the time the actual pipe was installed ?? And use metal brackets and concrete ??? Just saying ??? Hope you don't have a dog ???