Another variable is the height over trigger of the grip. Typically guns with low height over bore like Glock also have the trigger finger angled down to reach it which causes rotational force when pulling the trigger as well as making it more awkward to pull it straight back exacerbating the tendency to push shots low. Hence the greater importance of grip on the gun to prevent unwanted movement Typically guns with high height over bore don’t have this problem. Eg sig P226 enables a straighter trigger pull as you’re fingers natural pull is more inline with the trigger
shape of the gun's grip makes a bigger difference. I deathgrip a glock because the flat sides don't give me anything to hang on to. A single stack 1911 or CZ i don't have to grip as aggressively with the right grips.
Totally agreed about the mechanics you described. For me the glock grip angle and wide polymer trigger guard that is resting on firing hand middle finger is better to control the gun then other SF guns.
Trigger reach is also a consideration for me. On a single stack gun where the pad of my finger easily makes contact, I can get away with less pressure overall (especially less support hand pressure). But on a DA gun or like a .45 Glock where I’m just barely pulling the trigger with the tip of my finger, it takes a lot more effort to stop the muzzle from deviating.
Groggy Ben Stiller came back from the set of the Mission Impossible 2 climb to bring us this video. It definitely changes when the grip gets a bit too small for the support hand. More side pressure on top, maybe one thumb on the other adding pressure. Maybe get a platypus and during the lead time get a smaller carry pistol to make you work around the available grip.
I think exploring different hand pressures is advantageous. Relaxing the firing hand was beneficial for me as it made my lack of support hand pressure stupid obvious. I really like the challenge of shooting a glock. My GPT and Apex trigger both average 3.5lbs, with the GPT having a longer pull. Backing off firing hand pressure some, while being brutally honest with what I see, can be awfully good frustrating stuff to find balance.
Great topic. I recently figured this out myself. Been working my way up the ranks in IDPA the past few years. Shooting a Canik Rival which is a decent competition gun out of the box. It’s a light gun with a good trigger. I would tend to pull a lot of shots lateral to the left. Got the steel version and no longer have the left lateral problem. The gun is much heavier and forms a solid base so I’m no longer jerking the gun left when pulling the trigger. My shooting level improved 2 classes with the heavier gun and even lighter trigger than the polymer frame. Thanks for breaking it down, you are absolutely correct Ben.
Sometimes I think I am spoiled shooting a CZ shadow 2 for Competition and then I would carry a P365 because I felt like I had to put a lot more strength and input into the p365 to shoot effectively and accurately. I’ve now switched to EDC the S2C to keep things streamlined from competition to carry and over all I feel like I don’t have to work so hard to get accurate fast results
Echoing the shape idea, as well as both gun and trigger weight. Routinely switch between a Tanfo with really nice Lok grips and a Glock. Glock fits my hand poorly, it’s got a slick texture, and the flat sides don’t give a lot for my support hand to grab onto. If I try to grip the Glock the same way I do the Tanfo and shoot doubles or similar drills, the gun flies all over the place. With the Glock, I have to add in a bit more firing hand tension and although the gun still moves a little more than a heavy metal gun, it’s not nearly as severe and it’s predictable. But I’m closer to riding that fine line of too much firing hand tension that leads to pushing shots low/left, trigger freeze, etc. The Glock is just a harder gun to shoot for me, and honestly that’s some of the appeal. My grip cue for Tanfo is simply to relax my firing hand. For Glock it’s to drive the web of my hand into the beavertail, which induces the desired tension (unless I screw up)
Hello Ben, extending the grip discussion a bit, I am curious of your thoughts on grip enhancer / grip chalk. I have always competed without it but recently switched to using it and it really has helped a great deal to lock the pistol into my hands. The problem is, however, that it’s so grippy that I have found that my gun handling has been greatly impacted during dry fire and live fire to the point of extreme frustration. I am curious if you have any tips / tricks for this dilemma, or if this is just a time and repetition thing. Thanks.
What type of audio interface and microphone are you using; also what polar pattern do you have the mic set on? I almost think your trolling us and running your audio through a McDSP FX plug-in.
I try to think I'm isolating my trigger finger from the rest of the hand. The hand holds the gun to ensure recoil is consistent and so I don't have to do a lot of work to take the next shot - the finger is loose because as Harry Hogge says, "Loose is fast."
Glock 19 guy here; I’ve found pressure between index finger on support hand and middle finger on primary hand and driving it forward seems to work well for recoil control and just letting the gun do its thing. Granted, I’ve never shot a competition and I want to to see how bad I am, but it seems to work fairly well at my amateur stage; but that’s why I come here lol to learn
How would you grip differently for a gun with an even thinner grip like a G43X or an M&P Shield or P365? I have freakishly long fingers and with a Glock 17 there isn't really room for my support hand palm to contact the grip even with the biggest backstrap attached. My firing hand fingers reach all the way around to just about touching my palm. So I guess what a Shield would be for you is what it's like for me. My support hand palm can only sit on top of my firing hand fingertips unless my support hand grabs a finger or two lower like a Weaver style grip, or I use some kind of funky thumb-over-wrist revolver style grip. Am I doomed to shoot double stack 45s?
I noticed that people who primarily shoot Glocks say it’s critical to “lock the wrist” of the support hand. I don’t recall you ever saying anything that would make me believe you share this opinion. How important is the geometry of the pistol when it comes to adapting the best grip?
Whenever I shoot my small single stack 9mm I usually grip more with my shooting hand and less with my support because there’s less room to grip the frame
Are you streaming This Live? Your audio issues sound like you are recording this while streaming as opposed to recording it as a video and than posting the video.
One variable for me is how fast I’m shooting. If I’m slow shooting and really focusing on accuracy, I tend to have a more relaxed grip. If I’m trying to manage recoil, it’s definitely more of a firm grip. The faster the cadence, the firmer the grip for me.
I like Glocks, because they forgive you less, thus making you a better shooter. In many cases, the actual shooting in an IPSC/USPSA match is only a part of the package. Stage movement and strategy often make more difference than the gun. Also, caliber plays a role of course.
As the previous comment stated, granulate texture from talon grips. They work pretty well but I still use chalk and you might want to order 2 pairs at a time. They last about 6 months depending on how often you shoot. Silicone carbide would be the next step up if you want that texture to be on permanently. And don't forget to heat the talons up well so it gets good adhesion if you go with them.
Hold up 3 vids in 5 hours.
How Ben spoils us
The Lord giveth ben videos. The Lord taketh away mic quality.
@@Opr9r I'm dying!!!😂😂😂
Feast and Famine.
REM oil poor audio and grip pressure boys assemble
All present and accounted for😅
Another variable is the height over trigger of the grip.
Typically guns with low height over bore like Glock also have the trigger finger angled down to reach it which causes rotational force when pulling the trigger as well as making it more awkward to pull it straight back exacerbating the tendency to push shots low.
Hence the greater importance of grip on the gun to prevent unwanted movement
Typically guns with high height over bore don’t have this problem. Eg sig P226 enables a straighter trigger pull as you’re fingers natural pull is more inline with the trigger
Dude I never thought about it I think you're onto something. The grip angle of the Glock vs others probably contributes as well
shape of the gun's grip makes a bigger difference. I deathgrip a glock because the flat sides don't give me anything to hang on to. A single stack 1911 or CZ i don't have to grip as aggressively with the right grips.
Totally agreed about the mechanics you described.
For me the glock grip angle and wide polymer trigger guard that is resting on firing hand middle finger is better to control the gun then other SF guns.
Trigger reach is also a consideration for me. On a single stack gun where the pad of my finger easily makes contact, I can get away with less pressure overall (especially less support hand pressure). But on a DA gun or like a .45 Glock where I’m just barely pulling the trigger with the tip of my finger, it takes a lot more effort to stop the muzzle from deviating.
I would agree that the lighter the gun the more pressure is required to maintain contact and not have the gun move in the hand
Thanks for that... I felt I was doing this between my P365 and Prodigy DS.
I’ve noticed a huge difference in guns with or without a palm swell. Completely changes my recoil management.
which one works better for you?
Groggy Ben Stiller came back from the set of the Mission Impossible 2 climb to bring us this video.
It definitely changes when the grip gets a bit too small for the support hand. More side pressure on top, maybe one thumb on the other adding pressure.
Maybe get a platypus and during the lead time get a smaller carry pistol to make you work around the available grip.
I think exploring different hand pressures is advantageous. Relaxing the firing hand was beneficial for me as it made my lack of support hand pressure stupid obvious. I really like the challenge of shooting a glock. My GPT and Apex trigger both average 3.5lbs, with the GPT having a longer pull. Backing off firing hand pressure some, while being brutally honest with what I see, can be awfully good frustrating stuff to find balance.
Great video. Love the increase in UA-cam content. but what about the AEMS
Great topic. I recently figured this out myself. Been working my way up the ranks in IDPA the past few years. Shooting a Canik Rival which is a decent competition gun out of the box. It’s a light gun with a good trigger. I would tend to pull a lot of shots lateral to the left. Got the steel version and no longer have the left lateral problem. The gun is much heavier and forms a solid base so I’m no longer jerking the gun left when pulling the trigger. My shooting level improved 2 classes with the heavier gun and even lighter trigger than the polymer frame. Thanks for breaking it down, you are absolutely correct Ben.
I’m still recovering from how slopping I got shooting my Staccato. Bought a 34 and aiming to train with it to get better overall.
Sometimes I think I am spoiled shooting a CZ shadow 2 for Competition and then I would carry a P365 because I felt like I had to put a lot more strength and input into the p365 to shoot effectively and accurately. I’ve now switched to EDC the S2C to keep things streamlined from competition to carry and over all I feel like I don’t have to work so hard to get accurate fast results
Echoing the shape idea, as well as both gun and trigger weight. Routinely switch between a Tanfo with really nice Lok grips and a Glock. Glock fits my hand poorly, it’s got a slick texture, and the flat sides don’t give a lot for my support hand to grab onto. If I try to grip the Glock the same way I do the Tanfo and shoot doubles or similar drills, the gun flies all over the place. With the Glock, I have to add in a bit more firing hand tension and although the gun still moves a little more than a heavy metal gun, it’s not nearly as severe and it’s predictable. But I’m closer to riding that fine line of too much firing hand tension that leads to pushing shots low/left, trigger freeze, etc. The Glock is just a harder gun to shoot for me, and honestly that’s some of the appeal. My grip cue for Tanfo is simply to relax my firing hand. For Glock it’s to drive the web of my hand into the beavertail, which induces the desired tension (unless I screw up)
Good Stuff !!!
You still planning on buying a steel frame pdp to play around with?
I would like to see you try out the M&P 2.0 with an apex trigger
Hello Ben, extending the grip discussion a bit, I am curious of your thoughts on grip enhancer / grip chalk. I have always competed without it but recently switched to using it and it really has helped a great deal to lock the pistol into my hands. The problem is, however, that it’s so grippy that I have found that my gun handling has been greatly impacted during dry fire and live fire to the point of extreme frustration. I am curious if you have any tips / tricks for this dilemma, or if this is just a time and repetition thing. Thanks.
Do you shoot your OF content in there? The pink neon is giving the vibes lol
What type of audio interface and microphone are you using; also what polar pattern do you have the mic set on?
I almost think your trolling us and running your audio through a McDSP FX plug-in.
I don't change grip pressure between guns, I change grip pressure between STAGES.
🌶🌶🌶🌶🌶🌶🌶
I change grip pressure between targets.
I try to think I'm isolating my trigger finger from the rest of the hand. The hand holds the gun to ensure recoil is consistent and so I don't have to do a lot of work to take the next shot - the finger is loose because as Harry Hogge says, "Loose is fast."
Glock 19 guy here; I’ve found pressure between index finger on support hand and middle finger on primary hand and driving it forward seems to work well for recoil control and just letting the gun do its thing. Granted, I’ve never shot a competition and I want to to see how bad I am, but it seems to work fairly well at my amateur stage; but that’s why I come here lol to learn
How would you grip differently for a gun with an even thinner grip like a G43X or an M&P Shield or P365?
I have freakishly long fingers and with a Glock 17 there isn't really room for my support hand palm to contact the grip even with the biggest backstrap attached. My firing hand fingers reach all the way around to just about touching my palm. So I guess what a Shield would be for you is what it's like for me. My support hand palm can only sit on top of my firing hand fingertips unless my support hand grabs a finger or two lower like a Weaver style grip, or I use some kind of funky thumb-over-wrist revolver style grip. Am I doomed to shoot double stack 45s?
This is even with the thickest backstrap on the 17?
I noticed that people who primarily shoot Glocks say it’s critical to “lock the wrist” of the support hand. I don’t recall you ever saying anything that would make me believe you share this opinion. How important is the geometry of the pistol when it comes to adapting the best grip?
Hey get my belt order done so I can compete in my first match this weekend 😂
I can't figure out how tio grip a PX4. The flat sides are vexing.
Get some talon grips. Completely changes the gun
I had my buddy stipple mine. Otherwise, grip tape.
Once it has some texture the ergonomics are really good.
Even plain old goon tape works.
I want to know what you think of 2011s vs cz 75s (shadow 2) especially in terms of the grip.
Whenever I shoot my small single stack 9mm I usually grip more with my shooting hand and less with my support because there’s less room to grip the frame
Bob Vogel says Glock is better than staccato. What are your thoughts on that?
Vogel started uspsa with STI's for about 3 years, then went to the 34 and 35 because he shot them better.
Are you streaming This Live? Your audio issues sound like you are recording this while streaming as opposed to recording it as a video and than posting the video.
One variable for me is how fast I’m shooting. If I’m slow shooting and really focusing on accuracy, I tend to have a more relaxed grip.
If I’m trying to manage recoil, it’s definitely more of a firm grip. The faster the cadence, the firmer the grip for me.
I like Glocks, because they forgive you less, thus making you a better shooter. In many cases, the actual shooting in an IPSC/USPSA match is only a part of the package. Stage movement and strategy often make more difference than the gun. Also, caliber plays a role of course.
Mic adjustment need
anybody know what grip tape ben is usin on his glock?
talon granulate
As the previous comment stated, granulate texture from talon grips. They work pretty well but I still use chalk and you might want to order 2 pairs at a time. They last about 6 months depending on how often you shoot. Silicone carbide would be the next step up if you want that texture to be on permanently. And don't forget to heat the talons up well so it gets good adhesion if you go with them.
*insert random comment*
Ben use sunscreen on your face brother or use less aviators lol
You need to wear sunscreen bro.