Stay to argue and reply to comments. Consider the difference in advances in science and medical treatments that existed in 1990s to 2020-2024 that allow athletes to play longer. A player today in their thirties is much more likely to be consistent than a 1990s player. Lets go before the 1990s. Player careers were even shorter due to available medical advancements.
UA-camrs avoid nuance. It would be very difficult for Lebron to do this during decades of more primitive medical treatment. You are not comparing player ability. You are comparing treatment
Mj won 10 scoring titles in his 11 full seasons as a Bull ,that's insane . He played 6 full seasons in the 90s and got 6 scoring titles. He played 5 full seasons in the 80s and won 4 scoring tiltes. His rookie year is the only yr he didn't win a scoring title while playing a full season as a Chicago Bull
It’s easier to put up more points on a bad team than a good team, since you can just get your teammates to keep passing you the ball. On a good team, others will need the ball too in order to win
@rocbot9479 on a great team MJ avg over 30 4 of the 6 championship rings and led the league in scoring everyone of his 6 title years. So that's factually incorrect.
The craziest thing is Lebron’s 40k points isn’t even close to done yet. The madman could very well end with 45k+ points before he retires. I honestly wouldn’t even be that surprised if he scored 50,000 points.
@@edbreeze102Bron could play another 4-5 seasons. We don’t know his actual goals. He might not retire until he gets at least 5 rings😂. Plus we know he wanna own a team and you need a lot of money for that. Contracts are still increasing today
You didn't account for total points being way more linear than scoring titles. The way you use the stats means missing a scoring title by 1 point is the exact same as not scoring any points that season.
The maths answer is pretty bad. You're comparing an absolute value versus the total time answer, so of course they'd be wildly different. If 1 player was 0.1 points away from getting a scoring title every year for 10 seasons they'd technically be 100% away from getting 10 scoring titles, but that wouldn't be comparable. Instead you should look at like average distance from a scoring title. So if someone was 10% away from a scoring title every season then they'd be 90% of the way to mj's total, and i think that'd be decently comparable to the total points measure
Agree with the unbalanced use of maths in this context. Say there's a person with 9 scoring titles. Comparing it to MJ's 10, that's 9/10 which is 90%, so he's 10% away. (for context, in the video Wilt is said to be 30% away since he's at 7/10). Meanwhile a person 10% away from 40k pts has 36k pts (36k/40k is 90%). As the video said, an average player can do about 2k pts a season, so to get back that missing 10%, a player needs 2 full seasons to make up for it. Meanwhile to get back the missing 10% in the scoring titles column, you just need one season of being a ballhoig and shoot eveything to win the scoring title. Long way of saying, using percentages to compare big numbers like in the thousands to something that is 10 at the max is bad maths.
To get 10 scoring titles you have to be Jordan, to get 40k you have to be Lebron, to get close you have to be Wilt or Kareem. Either could have been done by someone else but I think the 10 scoring titles is harder especially now with scoring inflated because you literally have to be the best scorer year after year.
@@TheKillzu doesn't apply to any other guards, if he's making that many shots and more importantly winning, why is this a bad thing? find another reason.
Mj won 10 scoring titles in his 11 full seasons as a Bull ,that's insane . He played 6 full seasons in the 90s and got 6 scoring titles. He played 5 full seasons in the 80s and won 4 scoring tiltes. His rookie year is the only yr he didn't win a scoring title while playing a full season as a Chicago Bull.
What is harder to achieve? Very hard question. What makes someone better scorer? Definitely scoring titles. Kareem and Karl Malone are 2nd and 3rd on all time scoring list and you can easly make list of 10 best scorers without them,which you can't for kd(4),wilt(7) and of course mj(10). Like yeah, malone has more points than kobe, but he is not better scorer...
I thought lebron averaged 30+ 3 times, twice as a cav and once as a laker. I swear he averaged 31 ppg in 06 when kobe won the scoring title averaging 35
Scoring title resets every season and total points does not, which makes winning multiple scoring titles tougher. Shawn Bradley probably has more career points than Anthony Edward at the moment, does that mean Bradley is better than Ant man? I know this is an extreme analogy, but I’m just trying to make a point.
10 scoring titles is a crazy feat. It means you are super competitive. And Jordan could add two more if he didn't go play baseball. 40k is also impressive but it can be achieved easier.
Idk man, the #1 suspect of playing against weak competition (Wilt) only got 7 and he literally scored 50 a night with ease. If he couldn’t even do it, I doubt anyone can tbh.
The thing is that the older you get the more your ppg drops, so even though statistically more players are closer to lebron but in reality nobody can pysically come close to him
That makes sense. And the scoring title is just having the most points even if it takes many field goal attempts. Playing longer does make your ppg drop more
@@fyntc Yeah, to break Jordans record you need 11 elite scoring seasons. To break lebrons still not done record you need 20+ seasons averaging 30ppg and playing 70 games every single year and there is just simply no room for injury, a player has to average 30 points till hes 40 with no room for injuries to break lebrons record
@@fyntcBut taking more field goal attempts drops field goal percentage until its untolerable. The fact that MJ averaged 52% 1984-1993 is impressive. Same reason Stephen Curry can attempt 8 3-pointers per game. I'm exaggerating. You go until field goal percentage drops. The times Lebron tried to go volume shooting it went bad for his efficiency. So he doesnt do volume
Hell nah. To make 40K points you compete against yourself and yourself only, to win a scoring title you gotta outscore everyone in the league, it isn't enough to make 30 or 35 if there's another guy scoring 40, ask about that to Elgin Baylor. The adequate comparison is to WIN a 400 m dash vs just running 42kms regardless of your pace.
@@Fixundfertig1this is easily the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, regardless through out your time in the league for 40k points you have to play every team in your conference regardless it’s not “yourself vs yourself” and even if you mean for a title you still have to get past that other players numbers either way
@@Fixundfertig1 It’s not regardless of pace, otherwise everyone would have similar stats. He’s played LESS games than Kareem, yet has MORE points. Figure that one out
Another way to look at the scoring titles is that MJ averaged 22.9 FGA for his career and lebron has averaged 19.6. If lebron increased his FGA attempts to 23 a game then he would probably have more scoring titles for his career. For context Lebron has only had one season where he averaged 23 FGA per gameand he averaged 31.4 PPG that year. Just to be clear that I am not glazing Lebron if MJ played for 20 seasons then, barring injury, he would have eclipsed 40k points in less games than Lebron. The difference between the two is not ability, it is play style.
Here's another fact: In terms of total scoring, Lebron finished #2 in a record eight straight seasons (2005-2012) while finishing top ten in assists five times in those seasons. Jordan was the better scorer, but people who do the 10 > 1 (and by the way, it should be 11> 1, Jordan led the league in total scoring as a rookie) just ignore context.
you're wrong bro How many more 3s does lebron take and make within those FGA It balances out. Lebron just didnt score as much as MJ because MJ is MJ and lebron isnt reaching that without sacrificing some efficiency
@steezsteezsteez I'm not sure what you are getting at, LeBron has higher efficiency for his career than MJ. Just because he takes more 3pt shots doesn't change that. This is with the assumption that he shoots at the same FG%. I also used the same assumption for MJ reaching 40k points faster than LeBron. Both are assumptions based on information available.
*10x scoring title is tougher. Because a scoring title is typically only attainable by someone in their peak years where they have the energy to spend more time on the court and run more. Also, only ONE other NBA player has more than 4 titles (Wilt Chamberlain) and only one other NBA player has ever won 4 in a row (also Wilt). So, even the best players haven’t even done half of what MJ did.* *Meanwhile, 6 other players hit 30k+ points (75% of what Lebron did). Moreover, go look at Lebron’s total career minutes played. Compare it to the total minutes (and total points) of other top-10 all time scorers. You’ll see that , mathematically speaking, Kevin Durant is on pace to hit 40k points by the time he plays equivalent minutes to Lebron, MJ was on pace if he hadn’t retired from the Wizards, and Kobe was on pace if he hadn’t retired. Keep in mind that both MJ and Kobe were still NBA All-Star caliber at retirement (even though they were no longer All-NBA caliber), so they could’ve kept playing. MJ and Kobe retired because they knew they could no longer lead their teams to titles. Lebron is still playing EVEN THOUGH he can no longer lead a team to titles.* *That’s why Lebron’s stats are called longevity stats.*
Scoring title is a comparative stat. If you play in an era devoid of other all time great scorers then you could easily rack em up. Don't get it twisted I think Jordan is the best scorer of all time but for the entire period he was winning scoring titles 87-98 only twice did someone else ever average over 30ppg. Historically speaking that's the weakest the comp for that award has ever been. Even the 2000s had more comp (12 times a player average over 30ppg) and that was during the slowest paced best defensive era of all time.
@@Kosithegod, thanks for the reply. Consider the following: Think about how much easier it became to score after the handcheck rule was added in the 2000s. Players who played in the pre- and post-handcheck rule eras will tell you that, in the pre-hancheck rule era, it was tougher to score. I give MJ a lot of credit because he put up crazy offensive stats in a more physical, more violent NBA.
@@ROFusion @ROFusion all goods, I love a good debate haha Handchecking was cracked down on because of the legalisation of zone defence made it difficult to for many teams to score leading to the lowest scoring era since the 50s. 2000-05 (94ppg on average for a team). All the offense friendly rule changes barely manage to return scoring to what it was before zones and help defence was allowed. Scoring remained below what is was in the mid 90s (101.4 ppg) until 2016, and never exceed what it was in the early 90s (105-107ppg) until 2019 when the 3pt revolution happened and scoring exploded. All that to say It was definitely harder to score in the 2000s than the late 80s/mid to early 90s, but there was still way more competition for the scoring title than during Jordan's run. Between 1987 (first scoring title) and 1998 (last title) Hitting 30 a game would've automatically given you 9 of the 11 scoring titles against MJs comp. There's no other decade long span in post merger nba history where 30ppg would get you more than 4 (ish) scoring titles. Even in lower scoring eras. Usually strong scorers having career seasons eat up some of those titles in other eras While no one is outscoring pre 1991 MJ, Post 1991 MJ was very lucky basically no-one had a break out scoring season like Embiid, Harden, Steph, Kobe, KD, iverson, King, Gervin, Mcadoo, and many others had.
@@Kosithegod, I appreciate the response again. What are your thoughts on factoring in fg percent into your judgment of MJ's feats vs. the modern era? As you can probably guess, one reason I'm skeptical about the number of all-time great scorers in the modern era is due to the rule-changes that occurred prior to the modern era. But another reason pertains to fg percent. You're right that there were years in the 2000s where you had multiple guys over 30ppg, but some of those years had some less than impressive stats in terms of fg percent. For example, in 2005-2006, Kobe got the scoring title averaging 35.4 per game with 45.9% fg percent (barely above the league average). Lebron was in 3rd place (33ppg, 48% fg, which I consider to be more impressive than Kobe). Carmelo earned the scoring title in 2012-2013 shooting below league average. As did Westbrook in 2014-2015 and 2016-2017, Harden in 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 and 2019-2020, but then things have been much better since 2020 (i.e., the scoring champion has always been above the league average in fg percent). For me, that fg percent issue serves as another point of skepticism about the modern era since it implies some of the modern day elite scorers sometimes reached elite status at the expense of shooting efficiency. Think about how much MJ would be shit on if any of his scoring titles had happened while he was *below* the league average in fg percent.
@@ROFusion hypothetically speaking: if no one was willing to take more shots and score more points at the expense of efficiency wouldn't that lower competition for the scoring title? I'm not saying 10 scoring titles isnt an extraordinary feat. It is. I'm saying that as a comparative "winner takes all" award it's impressiveness is highly dependant on what your competition was doing and just from a historical perspective the bar for being the highest volume scorer was lower in the 90s. Probabilistically you would expect more people to be hitting that 30ppg+ mark seeing how more people managed to do it in even lower scoring eras. You could argue Jordan popularised the ultra volume scoring guard/wing role and that's why we saw more competition for the title in the 2000s but that fact remains that same comp wasn't there for him at the time. Also players score more today mostly because they're taking more efficient shots. Fg% isnt going to show this because it does account for that fact that different shots have different values it's just make or miss. But if you look at eFG% (accounts for the 50% efficiency boost from 3s), or even True Shooting (accounts for 3s and FT %) and compare that to league averages, you get a better picture of what a player is producing. But yeah some players really do just chuck shots lol, melo, Westbrook and Kobe (rip) were guilty of that.
I partially agree with this, I don’t think that it made lebron the goat, since people were saying the the was the goat anyways, but I do think that Kareem needs to be on everyone’s top 5
@@JigglesLovely Cmon now no he wasn’t. No need to lie. Lebron made the finals at 22 years old. Lebron was not being called goat his first 2-3 seasons in the league🤣
Both are crazy, especially since Bron still playing on a high level. Records are meant to be broken, but don't think anyone is touching both in the next 50 years.
For scoring titles, you still have to compete with other players. To reach 40k you have yo play long and consistently enough. Both are equally impressive but 10 scoring titles is like being the league's top scorer for 60-70% of your career.
Play long enough and you could hit 40k, even as a mediocre player. Can’t ever say the same about a scoring title. Can’t be mediocre or rely on just playing for a long time; it literally requires you be the best. Longevity is impressive. But it shouldn't be mistaken for actual talent and skill. Prime vs Prime, we know who's better lol
A player would have to average 24 ppg for 20 seasons to reach 40K points. That don’t sound like a mediocre player to me. And the real fact is that MJ led the league in field goal attempts per game in all 10 of his scoring title seasons. So basically, he just shot the ball more than all of his peers causing him to average more points…now is that still as impressive?
The piece about making 10 scoring titles easier would be to include second a third place finishers as that is the more accurate metric for near scoring title. Does anyone else have 10 top 3 scoring season? Compairing a binary to a spectrum otherwise doesnt work. If you were going to do it the other way it would be to count how many 27 ppg seasons people have and compare that to the number 20. That being said it seems like Jordan's accomplishment may be tougher(looking at number of players with 14 and 8 eligible seasons).
To win ten scoring titles, you need to score the most points per game in the entire NBA (and qualify) for the majority of the seasons in your career. On the other hand, you need to average two thousand points per season for twenty seasons to get to forty thousand points for your career. I honestly don't know which one is more difficult.
@@BackboardBuoy.2zqwa the crazy part is he averaged 28 but scored the most total points his rookie season. His 3rd year he averaged 37 so I’m being modest saying plug in his average. He could’ve easily averaged anywhere from 34-40 points his sophomore season if you check the numbers you’d see the year after he broke his foot he went 37, 35, 32 and 33. So me saying plug 30 ppg is actually low balling. He averaged 26 the baseball year only playing 18 games while also getting back into basketball shape and went back to averaging 30 the following years. So after averaging 32 he retired. He could’ve easily still been averaging 30+ the baseball years. That’s why I know Jordan would’ve had 40k. And imagine if he never retired after the 2nd 3peat while still in great shape and not a 40 year old man. Those would’ve been a couple more productive seasons. People don’t understand
@@TheOrangePatriot Probably. Jordan went on a streak of 30ppg before he retired. Considering that he turns 31 in the 1993-1994 season, He would probably would average from 27 minimum to 31 maximum. Now, Jordan had over 5, 82 games before his first retirement. He averaged 74 games im his first 9 seasons. Considering that he got 80 in his second to the last season, and 78 in his last season before first retirement, Jordan would've probably gotten 74-80 games if he didn't retire. The average from both numbers are 77. 77 multiplied by the average of 27-31ppg is 29. Meaning that Jordan would've gotten 2,233 points that season. I found out that he missed 3 seasons before his career in Washington. He was 35 before his second retirement. He missed his career from 36-38. Jordan had 28.7ppg in the 1997-1998 season, and 22.9ppg in his 2001-2002. The ppg difference is 5.8. Divided by 4 equals to 1.45. If you're wondering why it's divided by 4, it's because if you did divide it by 3, it would mean that Jordan got 22.9 in his 3rd retired season. If you subtract 28.7ppg from 1.45 each 3 seasons, you can get 22.9ppg. 28.7 minus 1.45 is 27.25. 5 is a decimal number you can turn into a higher whole number. Meaning that He could average 27.3. He played 82 games before his last season. He played 82 games 2 seasons well before his last season, Meaning that he could play another 82 games, but I'm pretty sure that can't happen. Jordan might've played from 70-80 games. Let's say he played 78 games. 78 multiplied by 27.3 equals 2,129. 27.3-1.45 is 25.8. Let's say this time he plays 74 games. 25.8 multiplied by 74 is 1909. 25.8-1.45 is 24.35 or 24.4 multiplied by let's say 70 games equals 1704.5 or 1705. 32,292 (Jordans points), plus 2,233, plus 2129, plus 1909, plus 1705 equals 40,268.
I do think 40k is easier than 10 scoring titles but it's not either one's fault. Scoring is just more inflated today however you put it(pace, defense, skill) meaning it's harder to win a scoring title especially since most of the guys in todays league are scoring oriented. Even the pass first guys are average 30 or getting near that. Obviously that's not to take away from LeBron, this record is still not getting broken in our lifetime. Like he said, in the end it's one to one for both so technically equally as hard.
Scoring titles is easier simply by the fact if you have the green light by the coach you can throw up unlimited shots. Shaq could have averaged 40 a season easily but it would be a deficit to team play especially deep in the season.
Literally the exact OPPOSITE would be true. If all coaches gave their top scorer the greeen light to score, 40K would be VERY easy to accomplish. But if every top scorer had the green light, they would be competing with every other player to win the scoring title.
@@reign1594 His ACTUAL career true shooting percentage is LESS THAN 1% above the AVERAGE in the NBA. And the only reason his efficiency went up the last year was because his shot attemps went down to his 3nd lowest levels in his entire career. And his minutes per game were the lowest in his entire career oustide of his rookie year. So, the more he plays and the more he shoots, the worse he is.
On one hand, getting scoring titles is hard because you have to be the best among the league, which is not the case for points total: you can be no.2 your whole career and be the points total champion anyway. On the other hand, to get the total points record, you have to be good enough to stay in the league for a very long time, and be in shape to still be performant past your prime. It's the same old debate between peak and longevity.
At the final season of Jordan's career, he averaged, 37 min/game and played 82/82 games. While LBJ, last season played 35min/game, played 71/82 games. So longevity category is still a complete disaster for LeBron.
The obvious answer is scoring title because of odds. 1 player each year can win it. And most players get less than 20 chances to do it. So you have to be #1 in scoring for over half your career. 1 player a year thats it. 40k points has unlimited slots you just have to want it and go for it. Someday we will have someone new entering the 40k club yearly until 50k becomes the new goal post.
Here is why it is harder to get 10 scoring titles : Even if you played 40,000 games and scored 1 ppg, setting the record, there is a chance that no matter how high of a ppg average you have during the season that another player could be averaging more ppg for the scoring title, which could happen theoretically during every seasons of a players 20 year career. So based on law and averages, the scoring titles are more difficult to achieve.
Context is missing in jordans bulls days it was much harder to score for multiple reasons, which u can easily see by the scoring averages the teams put up in comparison to today.
Michael Air Jordan 23 🤴🏿 GOAT Nu 1 Greatest ever Unstoppable Legends 🐐🐐🐐🐐🏀🏀 scoring titles10 🔥🔥🔥🔥🦅 fly like an Eagle jump 48 Spece Jam Games 82 PPG 45.2 72-10 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 no losses 0 finals 🤯 Flu Games 🤒 best defender 9 🛡️
@@rodrigotisnes9828 no, not with modern day medical advancements. Decades ago, a player that reaches 30 is already done. Today, Curry and KD play the same due to modern day medicine. Could Lebron do this with 1980s limited medical treatment?
@@rodrigotisnes9828 do you believe the winner of a Marathon works harder than Usain Bolt? Because its a marathon? Any Marathon winner cannot beat Usain in the 100 or 200 meter dash. Like others say.
@@MB-cb2he I think that Jordan had access to the best medical treatment of his time. Aldo, it's worth noting that from this era, with modern medical treatment, only Lebron has been able to achieve this continued excelente. Anyway, my point is another. I understand that scoring is important, but I do really think that achieving 40,000 pts plus 10,000 rebs and assists is plainly incredible. And also Stickton's accolades, who by the way, played un the 80' and 90's
@@MB-cb2he Both work hard in their disciplines. But my point is different. I believe that the most astonishing achievement from Lebron is his cummulative carreer "triple double"... It's like he had been a Marathon, Javelin and Boxing olympic medalist. No one has ver achieved 40.000 points. But I see that more attainable than someone getting 10.000 points, rebounds and assists
Stop!!!!! The answer is both, and neither is easier than the other 100 points in a game 40,000 points for a career 10 scoring titles Wilts total 40 point games John Stockton assist record All very impressive & most likely unbreakable
@@TheJohnWick1where’s the proof of the hundred pt game? Stocktons good but cp3 honestly might beat that record now that he’s just gonna be assisting wemby all game
@@JaMorantfan420 Cp3 isn't breaking anything, stop it 🤣🤣, & since you're on youtube, im sure you have Google, go ahead & do the research you need, It was a different time back than, every game wasn't being recorded in hd quality my friend, I don't see any reason to make a great conspiracy about a fake 100 point, There were witnesses back in the day, articles, multiple sources from back then that claimed it happened, I can use your same logic against you, where's the proof it didn't happen 🤷
Someone will break Lebron's record because its a longevity record, they all get broken eventually. No one will get 10 scoring titles because that means you have to be the best scorer in the league for a decade, without getting any major injuries.
You have to stay healthy for 20+ seasons without any major injuries too to break Lebron record. Most players today can’t go 2 full seasons without missing time. Not to mention that 40k might turn to 45 or 50k by the time Bron retires which gonna make his scoring record even more impossible to break
It’s simple math people. If LJ shot 23 times a game like MJ he would have averaged 30+ ppg for his entire career. He would have 10 or so scoring titles, he would have gotten to 40K sooner and would still be top 5 in assists. Let that sink in. Both GOATS though.
Scoring Title is harder because you cant get there by stat padding and losing thats why its only been done by someone 6-0 in the finals. Anyone else would have to chuck there way to those numbers and wouldn't win more or be efficient. Which would mean there scoring role would be reduced after a couple of years because the team would suffer. Not only that but you can measure it against everyone else without injuries or games off being a factor which makes it a rawer measurement.
They’re both hard. Only one player has accomplished each of those things. Both players had to have the skills while being in situations that made their accomplishment doable.
Scoring titles are usually won by players on a team without good team mates to share the scoring with. Such teams dont win championships. The fact MJ was so good he could win a scoring title and championship in the same year makes it even more special, only 1 other player has done that in the past 53 years (Shaq 2000) and he only did it one time. MJ did it 6 times. That gives him the edge. Lebron's longevity is only special compared to the past, it will be the norm in future. There are a ton of mid 30s players that are likely to play til 40 such as Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Jrue. And dont forget that Lebron was drafted at 18 which is against the rules now, so you need to take away 1,654 points from his total if you're going to be fair.
The next closest to 10 scoring titles is Wilt with 7. So 2nd place is 30% lower than MJ. Lebron has roughly 40k points and kareem had 38k. That's only a gap of 5% less from lebron to 2nd place. In order for Lebron's to be considered as good using this metric, he'd need to finish with 58-60k points in order to be 30% higher than Kareem.
Here’s a theoretical question about these two. Imagine lebron and Mj played each other one on one every year, starting in, say, 1996. What year do you (the person reading this) think lebron would be able to beat mj the first time? I’ll go 2005
Lebron wouldn’t beat MJ on the cavs, even if he’d try his best, the only other person that’d be competing is his center, so I don’t think it’d be possible until he joined Miami, not because of him as a player, but because of his team, which wasn’t as bad as people say it was, but it wasn’t enough to beat MJ, I argue that his team in 2018 was worse
40k points is beating everybody in History. Scoring titles is just beating the people you’re playing with. Let’s be honest, they ain’t have Steph curry’s, and Hardens, or Durants back in the 80s, 90s.
You can argue Kareem's scoring record his more impressive than Lebron's is first of all.. Kareem played 4 years in college and shot no threes in his career. Yet, the difference in games played for the record is less than 2 NBA seasons .
The only seasons when LeBron averaged close to MJ's career FGA mark, he scored over 31 ppg (which is more than MJ's career ppg). Before LeBron led the league in ppg, he came in 3rd, 3rd and 4th. After he led the league, he came in 2nd three seasons in a row, then 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, and 3rd again. LeBron was within reach of leading the league many times, and if that had been any goal he had, he would have done so. By comparison, MJ's goal was ALWAYS to lead the league in scoring, and he averaged the most shots every year to do it.
I think the answer is that getting 40k total points when you are primarily a playmaker, and one of the best assisters of all time is harder than getting 10 scoring titles as almost a pure scorer in an era where there aren't as many pure scorers as other eras
Luka Doncic averages most points, assists, and rebounds his first 7 seasons than Lebron. So does Oscar Robertson. Lebron is like someone who can win a marathon, but cannot win the 100 or 200 meter dash
Wouldn't it be harder for Lebron to do that under 1980s medical science where a player at 30 was usually unrecoverable? Today its feasible for KD Curry Lebron to keep going with today's technology
Didn't Kareem get close to 40k points in 20 years? He got over 38k. Also, MJ played what 14, 15 seasons in all? He got closer to 40k in those years than Leflop got to 10 scoring titles in this 20 year period.
Lebron broke Kareem's scoring record in 150 games less than Kareem. "Oh but he had the 3 point line!" If you made every 3 Lebron made into a 2, he'd still have beaten Kareem's record in about 50 less games.
How can he be an underrated scorer? For his career averages compared to the rest of the league, he is a below average 3pt shooter, a below average mid range shooter, and a below average free throw shooter. And that`s WITH the help of the refs for most of his career.
@@RealMichaelJJordan DID you just say he averages almost 30 a game in the paint? He`s only averaged over 30 a game TWICE in his career, and NEVER over 32 a game. His career average is 27.1 per game, he averages 5 pts off of 3 pt`ers a game, and averages 5.6 pts on free throws. So assuming he takes ZERO shots outside the paint that aren`t 3 pt`ers, the MOST he COULD average is 16.5 pts per game. The MOST is 16.5 assuming ZERO perimeter shots EVER in his career. 🤦♂
@@RichardRennes you just said he is a below average shooter but he makes shots from three. You contradicted yourself. And I said he was 1-2 points of scoring 30 a game most of his career. Check your stats.
Scoring title is even harder to get now as you need more than the 31 a season listed. Multiple people were around 31 last year and before his injury Embiid was about 36. If KD wanted to even hit his 5th scoring title now would be a massive task, doing it 6 more times? Nope. Even going off those numbers, if Embiid could've won on 36, he's already looking broken down, he couldn't possibly go long enough to get to 10. Luka possibly could, but he's got a lot of competition chasing him.
But factor in that you have to score that much points each year for so long and be healthy in a sport that you can breakdown and get old that is very hard to do. I think both is equally is hard
@@redbogaming6009 lebron is 6’9” with no fat and the only reason he plays like that at his age is because he spends millions each year to keep his body in good shape that technology was invented 20+ years ago.
I have and always will be a fan of MJ. But 40,000+ points total in a career, even with today's "soft defense" (which I believe to be true), is still monumental in itself. The amount of self-discipline to take care of your body for that long is something people really should strive for. It also requires luck that nobody falls on your foot or knee creating a career-ending injury in a sport where that could easily happen.
Being healthy as an individual regardless of the team and wins is an easier feat. LBJ as the face of NBA also helps him secure his health by other players avoiding him to get injured (like a plot armor for a protagonist in a story). It is smart and now he just needs to play with his son and I think that is it for him. Nobody can get that scoring title, unless he still wants the rings he need to tie Jordan's, which is more likely impossible.
Bron is not averaging 33 pts a game. If he tried he would become less efficient, cause hes not a good shooter. lol Assist are also contributions of the player you are passing to. So you can't automatically say Bron is responsible for those points.
If Lebron wanted to, he'd average 33 lol. Why are you adding some strange limitation like he has to shoot? He's the most dominant slasher in league history.
@reillyhopf6508 Negative; Bron had 20 years to win multiple scoring titles-so many hypotheticals around Bron and false narratives. Jordan technically played 13 full seasons, we can objectively say that if he played 20 years, he would have his 10 scoring titles and over 40,000 points.
@@reillyhopf6508 brother have you even played basketball before ? yes lebron would average 33 but he would have to sacrifice a ton of efficiency to do so because thats simply the nature of getting more points, to act like that had no effect is interesting at best
@@Carvis23 He didn't win more than one because he's not as scoring dominant as Jordan. Lebron finished #2 in total scoring eight straight times from 2005-2012 and finished top ten in assists in five of those seasons. That's the type of context people like you like to ignore.
@@steezsteezsteez Oh the classic "Do you even play basketball" to try and act like your statement is somehow correct. When did I say his efficiency wouldn't drop exactly? The point is is that the OPs comment assumes Lebron is for some reason going to settle for jump shots when that isn't his bread and butter. If Lebron WANTED to average 33, he'd put less effort in on defense and wouldn't look to play make and his efficiency would drop, but it would be minimal.
If Jordan wanted to hit 40k points, he would have accomplished it faster and this doesn't even account for Jordan putting up the points during the slow game era where scoring was close to it's all time low. While LeBron couldn't average 30pts consistently and scoring has consistently increased each year since LeBronze joined the league.
Imagine players that scored 15 ppg the season before Jordan's last year then got over Jordan's worst 20 ppg season once being traded to a better team, and I think we could have a list. I think he could have 25 ppg if Jordan ring chased and joined the Lakers when returning.
Thing is for LeBron his passing and scoring are so symbiotic he probably isn't as good at either without both. At least that was true in his prime, he dropped dimes when you beat him to the basket or walled him.
I’d say 10 scoring titles is more difficult. If you look at 40,000 points wilt could’ve done it if he played more than 14 seasons, Jordan could’ve done it and Kareem and Malone were close. Only wilt is even close to 10 scoring titles.
I think 10 scoring titles is more impressive also, however there has to be a scoring champ each year. This means you have a 1 in 450 or how many ever players there are to be the scoring champ each year. There has been thousands of players and only one has made it to 40k. Also it’s not just 40k he looks like he has another 15k in him. Again not poo pooing Jordan, 10 is an insanely dominate amount for anyone and to get 10 in 15 years is God level. I think LeBron is the most complete basketball player ever but I give the edge to Jordan when it comes to scoring.
Jordan had barely any comp for the titles. Only once in the entire 90s did a guy not named Jordan average 30ppg.... Once. Extended that to Jordan's entire prime (87-98) then still only twice did some else managed to drop 30ppg... Compare that to the actual lowest scoring, toughest defensive era of all time (the 2000s) 6 people averaged 30 ppg and it happened 12 times. It's like bills 11 rings, very impressive but overhyped given context.
It's hard because the Scoring title is a relative award, while the 40k is an absolute award. I think it will be harder to get multiple scoring titles in the future because there will be a lot of competition. And getting a scoring title, mathematically, doesn't even mean you made a good scoring season, let's say hypothetically, that teams distribute the ball more, and a person gets a scoring title by scoring 20. It isn't as impressive. Looking at Michael Jordan's record in an absolute way would be counting his ppg. Then, if I'm not mistaken, he is tied first with Wilt with 30.1ppg, followed closely by lots of players such as Kevin Durant and Allen Iverson... (Wow! I just saw the list, and it is full of newcomers. 1. MJ, 30.12 ppg. 2. Wilt, 30.07. 3. Luka Doncic(!), 28.68, 4. Embiid, 27.88, 5. Elgin Baylor, 27.36, 6. KD 27.26. 7. LBJ 27.13 . 8. Jerry West 27.03. 9. Allen Iverson 26.66 and 10. Bob Pettit 26.36 For active players in the top 20 we have Trae Young (unexpected for me, ngl), Damian Lillard, Donovan Mitchel and Curry, around 25ppg If we take a look at this, we will see there are other players close to MJ
Idk it's hard to say since the difference between a career average of 27 or 28 and 30 is a pretty large gap. Luka has the best shot at it given he's reached that mark twice already. Embiid could maybe do it if he has a few more monster scoring seasons and than injuries cause him to retire without having the usual several seasons of drop off.
scoring titles is based on other players' performances. if the other players in the league are weaker, you'd win a ton of scoring titles. 40K points is simply a statistic you achieve.
I like how you explained this in the video but ima have to go with 40k points being harder simply because it's an end of career achievement but you had to have been at the top level for at the least 19 seasons. Neither is easy tho and I won't take anything from either achievement.
1 Fact about Every NBA Scoring Champion: ua-cam.com/video/S2oPSZJHyFE/v-deo.html
Forgetting that Jordan also missed 4 seasons because he went to college. Kareem abdul jabbar as well.
Stay to argue and reply to comments. Consider the difference in advances in science and medical treatments that existed in 1990s to 2020-2024 that allow athletes to play longer.
A player today in their thirties is much more likely to be consistent than a 1990s player. Lets go before the 1990s. Player careers were even shorter due to available medical advancements.
What if Kareem Abdul Jabbar did not go to college and started at 18?
UA-camrs avoid nuance. It would be very difficult for Lebron to do this during decades of more primitive medical treatment. You are not comparing player ability. You are comparing treatment
Lebron has already said he gets a certain medical treatment in his body. What treatment did 1990s players have as an option. Retire at 32?
10 scoring titles is about winning against competitors and 40k points is winning against nature:)
Great way of looking at it
All facts
Great point
winning against nature is harder in itself imo
ummmm..... he was losing for half of those so no it's stat padding at it's finest
Mj won 10 scoring titles in his 11 full seasons as a Bull ,that's insane . He played 6 full seasons in the 90s and got 6 scoring titles. He played 5 full seasons in the 80s and won 4 scoring tiltes. His rookie year is the only yr he didn't win a scoring title while playing a full season as a Chicago Bull
And they think Bronny LeFraud James Sr. Is better lol
@dhicks1217 oh please don't kill them with factual information. They hate that. Please only comment with contextual subjective arguments.
Winning Scoring title and your team being the last seed is crazy
Not really, putting up a lot of points on a bad team ain't unheard of
It’s easier to put up more points on a bad team than a good team, since you can just get your teammates to keep passing you the ball. On a good team, others will need the ball too in order to win
@rocbot9479 on a great team MJ avg over 30 4 of the 6 championship rings and led the league in scoring everyone of his 6 title years. So that's factually incorrect.
T-Mac is “stat padding loser/fraud” according to the naysayers.
Worst record in the NBA and still led the league in scoring.
@@scrappy93
Bro, he’s talking about TMac
The craziest thing is Lebron’s 40k points isn’t even close to done yet. The madman could very well end with 45k+ points before he retires. I honestly wouldn’t even be that surprised if he scored 50,000 points.
50k is pushing it but yea 45k if he has 2 great seasons
That’s what I was about to comment lol
@@edbreeze102Bron could play another 4-5 seasons. We don’t know his actual goals. He might not retire until he gets at least 5 rings😂. Plus we know he wanna own a team and you need a lot of money for that. Contracts are still increasing today
But he travels alot and runs into players like a linebacker so its easy for him to get those points
@@sniper-go8cfwhy can't anyone else do it?
You didn't account for total points being way more linear than scoring titles. The way you use the stats means missing a scoring title by 1 point is the exact same as not scoring any points that season.
The maths answer is pretty bad. You're comparing an absolute value versus the total time answer, so of course they'd be wildly different. If 1 player was 0.1 points away from getting a scoring title every year for 10 seasons they'd technically be 100% away from getting 10 scoring titles, but that wouldn't be comparable. Instead you should look at like average distance from a scoring title. So if someone was 10% away from a scoring title every season then they'd be 90% of the way to mj's total, and i think that'd be decently comparable to the total points measure
Agree with the unbalanced use of maths in this context. Say there's a person with 9 scoring titles. Comparing it to MJ's 10, that's 9/10 which is 90%, so he's 10% away. (for context, in the video Wilt is said to be 30% away since he's at 7/10). Meanwhile a person 10% away from 40k pts has 36k pts (36k/40k is 90%). As the video said, an average player can do about 2k pts a season, so to get back that missing 10%, a player needs 2 full seasons to make up for it. Meanwhile to get back the missing 10% in the scoring titles column, you just need one season of being a ballhoig and shoot eveything to win the scoring title. Long way of saying, using percentages to compare big numbers like in the thousands to something that is 10 at the max is bad maths.
He’s a Jordan fanboy
At 5:00 you said that KD and Gervin are the Only ones with 4 scoring titles but Iverson has also 4 if I remember correctly.
To get 10 scoring titles you have to be Jordan, to get 40k you have to be Lebron, to get close you have to be Wilt or Kareem. Either could have been done by someone else but I think the 10 scoring titles is harder especially now with scoring inflated because you literally have to be the best scorer year after year.
it's pretty easy to get when you are taking 240 shots more than the next largest shot taker.
@TheKillzu you might wanna check how many times he shot over 50 percent and stop just commenting to say nothing.
@@TheKillzu Then why James Harden or Melo or Allen Iverson or Kobe didn't win more scoring titles? 😂
@@TMD-g8o it's called the law of averages look it up
@@TheKillzu doesn't apply to any other guards, if he's making that many shots and more importantly winning, why is this a bad thing? find another reason.
The math is wrong because of the inflation of scoring in the recent years. It is significantly easier to average 31 now vs back when MJ played.
Not in 80’s
@@myst2761Most of his scoring titles were in the 90s
Mj won 10 scoring titles in his 11 full seasons as a Bull ,that's insane . He played 6 full seasons in the 90s and got 6 scoring titles. He played 5 full seasons in the 80s and won 4 scoring tiltes. His rookie year is the only yr he didn't win a scoring title while playing a full season as a Chicago Bull.
Look at how many players averaged only over 20 ppg versus now, and it's night, and day lol
Not really. That's not how it works.
What is harder to achieve? Very hard question. What makes someone better scorer? Definitely scoring titles. Kareem and Karl Malone are 2nd and 3rd on all time scoring list and you can easly make list of 10 best scorers without them,which you can't for kd(4),wilt(7) and of course mj(10). Like yeah, malone has more points than kobe, but he is not better scorer...
Better > More, there’s a reason why the scoring champion is the one who AVERAGE more points and not the one who has more.
I thought lebron averaged 30+ 3 times, twice as a cav and once as a laker. I swear he averaged 31 ppg in 06 when kobe won the scoring title averaging 35
He did but technically not 30+. His 08 scoring title was 30.0 on the dot in addition to his 2006 and 2022 seasons.
@@reillyhopf6508MJ has 10+ scoring titles
Scoring title resets every season and total points does not, which makes winning multiple scoring titles tougher.
Shawn Bradley probably has more career points than Anthony Edward at the moment, does that mean Bradley is better than Ant man? I know this is an extreme analogy, but I’m just trying to make a point.
2:53 why is ram ranch playing in the background 😭
10 scoring titles is a crazy feat. It means you are super competitive. And Jordan could add two more if he didn't go play baseball.
40k is also impressive but it can be achieved easier.
Idk man, the #1 suspect of playing against weak competition (Wilt) only got 7 and he literally scored 50 a night with ease. If he couldn’t even do it, I doubt anyone can tbh.
The fact that Wilt didn't do it shows that he wasn't the only dominant player in his time. The claims of weak competition is exaggerated.
The thing is that the older you get the more your ppg drops, so even though statistically more players are closer to lebron but in reality nobody can pysically come close to him
Malone wasn’t too far off of he actually got more contracts, but for the sake of him being a pedophile, I’m glad he didn’t
That makes sense. And the scoring title is just having the most points even if it takes many field goal attempts. Playing longer does make your ppg drop more
@@fyntc Yeah, to break Jordans record you need 11 elite scoring seasons. To break lebrons still not done record you need 20+ seasons averaging 30ppg and playing 70 games every single year and there is just simply no room for injury, a player has to average 30 points till hes 40 with no room for injuries to break lebrons record
@@fyntcBut taking more field goal attempts drops field goal percentage until its untolerable. The fact that MJ averaged 52% 1984-1993 is impressive. Same reason Stephen Curry can attempt 8 3-pointers per game. I'm exaggerating. You go until field goal percentage drops.
The times Lebron tried to go volume shooting it went bad for his efficiency. So he doesnt do volume
For Jordan, scoring that many points while leading the league in STEALS actually makes it more difficult. Pre-retirement MJ
That’s like asking: What’s harder to achieve, winning a 400 meter sprint or winning a long distance marathon?
I mean... Yeah 😂 what is harder
Hell nah. To make 40K points you compete against yourself and yourself only, to win a scoring title you gotta outscore everyone in the league, it isn't enough to make 30 or 35 if there's another guy scoring 40, ask about that to Elgin Baylor. The adequate comparison is to WIN a 400 m dash vs just running 42kms regardless of your pace.
@@Fixundfertig1this is easily the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, regardless through out your time in the league for 40k points you have to play every team in your conference regardless it’s not “yourself vs yourself” and even if you mean for a title you still have to get past that other players numbers either way
@@Fixundfertig1 Perfect comparison
@@Fixundfertig1
It’s not regardless of pace, otherwise everyone would have similar stats. He’s played LESS games than Kareem, yet has MORE points. Figure that one out
imo scoring title since only one person gets it every year vs getting the 40k points where each year helps you reach that milestone
Another way to look at the scoring titles is that MJ averaged 22.9 FGA for his career and lebron has averaged 19.6. If lebron increased his FGA attempts to 23 a game then he would probably have more scoring titles for his career. For context Lebron has only had one season where he averaged 23 FGA per gameand he averaged 31.4 PPG that year.
Just to be clear that I am not glazing Lebron if MJ played for 20 seasons then, barring injury, he would have eclipsed 40k points in less games than Lebron. The difference between the two is not ability, it is play style.
Well said
Here's another fact: In terms of total scoring, Lebron finished #2 in a record eight straight seasons (2005-2012) while finishing top ten in assists five times in those seasons. Jordan was the better scorer, but people who do the 10 > 1 (and by the way, it should be 11> 1, Jordan led the league in total scoring as a rookie) just ignore context.
That's exactly what he said: turn 3 assists into 6 pts
you're wrong bro
How many more 3s does lebron take and make within those FGA
It balances out. Lebron just didnt score as much as MJ because MJ is MJ and lebron isnt reaching that without sacrificing some efficiency
@steezsteezsteez I'm not sure what you are getting at, LeBron has higher efficiency for his career than MJ. Just because he takes more 3pt shots doesn't change that. This is with the assumption that he shoots at the same FG%. I also used the same assumption for MJ reaching 40k points faster than LeBron. Both are assumptions based on information available.
*10x scoring title is tougher. Because a scoring title is typically only attainable by someone in their peak years where they have the energy to spend more time on the court and run more. Also, only ONE other NBA player has more than 4 titles (Wilt Chamberlain) and only one other NBA player has ever won 4 in a row (also Wilt). So, even the best players haven’t even done half of what MJ did.*
*Meanwhile, 6 other players hit 30k+ points (75% of what Lebron did). Moreover, go look at Lebron’s total career minutes played. Compare it to the total minutes (and total points) of other top-10 all time scorers. You’ll see that , mathematically speaking, Kevin Durant is on pace to hit 40k points by the time he plays equivalent minutes to Lebron, MJ was on pace if he hadn’t retired from the Wizards, and Kobe was on pace if he hadn’t retired. Keep in mind that both MJ and Kobe were still NBA All-Star caliber at retirement (even though they were no longer All-NBA caliber), so they could’ve kept playing. MJ and Kobe retired because they knew they could no longer lead their teams to titles. Lebron is still playing EVEN THOUGH he can no longer lead a team to titles.*
*That’s why Lebron’s stats are called longevity stats.*
Scoring title is a comparative stat. If you play in an era devoid of other all time great scorers then you could easily rack em up.
Don't get it twisted I think Jordan is the best scorer of all time but for the entire period he was winning scoring titles 87-98 only twice did someone else ever average over 30ppg. Historically speaking that's the weakest the comp for that award has ever been.
Even the 2000s had more comp (12 times a player average over 30ppg) and that was during the slowest paced best defensive era of all time.
@@Kosithegod, thanks for the reply. Consider the following:
Think about how much easier it became to score after the handcheck rule was added in the 2000s. Players who played in the pre- and post-handcheck rule eras will tell you that, in the pre-hancheck rule era, it was tougher to score.
I give MJ a lot of credit because he put up crazy offensive stats in a more physical, more violent NBA.
@@ROFusion @ROFusion all goods, I love a good debate haha
Handchecking was cracked down on because of the legalisation of zone defence made it difficult to for many teams to score leading to the lowest scoring era since the 50s. 2000-05 (94ppg on average for a team). All the offense friendly rule changes barely manage to return scoring to what it was before zones and help defence was allowed.
Scoring remained below what is was in the mid 90s (101.4 ppg) until 2016, and never exceed what it was in the early 90s (105-107ppg) until 2019 when the 3pt revolution happened and scoring exploded.
All that to say It was definitely harder to score in the 2000s than the late 80s/mid to early 90s, but there was still way more competition for the scoring title than during Jordan's run.
Between 1987 (first scoring title) and 1998 (last title) Hitting 30 a game would've automatically given you 9 of the 11 scoring titles against MJs comp. There's no other decade long span in post merger nba history where 30ppg would get you more than 4 (ish) scoring titles. Even in lower scoring eras.
Usually strong scorers having career seasons eat up some of those titles in other eras
While no one is outscoring pre 1991 MJ, Post 1991 MJ was very lucky basically no-one had a break out scoring season like Embiid, Harden, Steph, Kobe, KD, iverson, King, Gervin, Mcadoo, and many others had.
@@Kosithegod, I appreciate the response again. What are your thoughts on factoring in fg percent into your judgment of MJ's feats vs. the modern era? As you can probably guess, one reason I'm skeptical about the number of all-time great scorers in the modern era is due to the rule-changes that occurred prior to the modern era.
But another reason pertains to fg percent.
You're right that there were years in the 2000s where you had multiple guys over 30ppg, but some of those years had some less than impressive stats in terms of fg percent.
For example, in 2005-2006, Kobe got the scoring title averaging 35.4 per game with 45.9% fg percent (barely above the league average). Lebron was in 3rd place (33ppg, 48% fg, which I consider to be more impressive than Kobe).
Carmelo earned the scoring title in 2012-2013 shooting below league average. As did Westbrook in 2014-2015 and 2016-2017, Harden in 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 and 2019-2020, but then things have been much better since 2020 (i.e., the scoring champion has always been above the league average in fg percent).
For me, that fg percent issue serves as another point of skepticism about the modern era since it implies some of the modern day elite scorers sometimes reached elite status at the expense of shooting efficiency. Think about how much MJ would be shit on if any of his scoring titles had happened while he was *below* the league average in fg percent.
@@ROFusion hypothetically speaking: if no one was willing to take more shots and score more points at the expense of efficiency wouldn't that lower competition for the scoring title?
I'm not saying 10 scoring titles isnt an extraordinary feat. It is. I'm saying that as a comparative "winner takes all" award it's impressiveness is highly dependant on what your competition was doing and just from a historical perspective the bar for being the highest volume scorer was lower in the 90s. Probabilistically you would expect more people to be hitting that 30ppg+ mark seeing how more people managed to do it in even lower scoring eras.
You could argue Jordan popularised the ultra volume scoring guard/wing role and that's why we saw more competition for the title in the 2000s but that fact remains that same comp wasn't there for him at the time.
Also players score more today mostly because they're taking more efficient shots. Fg% isnt going to show this because it does account for that fact that different shots have different values it's just make or miss. But if you look at eFG% (accounts for the 50% efficiency boost from 3s), or even True Shooting (accounts for 3s and FT %) and compare that to league averages, you get a better picture of what a player is producing. But yeah some players really do just chuck shots lol, melo, Westbrook and Kobe (rip) were guilty of that.
Being all-time leading scorer didn’t make Kareem the goat but it suddenly makes Lebron the goat
I partially agree with this, I don’t think that it made lebron the goat, since people were saying the the was the goat anyways, but I do think that Kareem needs to be on everyone’s top 5
MJ was being called the goat before he won 6-0. It’s just a good argument lol
@@xKingKB7x Lebron was being called the goat before he even made it to the finals
@@JigglesLovely Cmon now no he wasn’t. No need to lie. Lebron made the finals at 22 years old. Lebron was not being called goat his first 2-3 seasons in the league🤣
@@xKingKB7x he was, I can’t find the specific video but it was during the 2007 playoffs, I think the first or second round
Both are crazy, especially since Bron still playing on a high level. Records are meant to be broken, but don't think anyone is touching both in the next 50 years.
For scoring titles, you still have to compete with other players. To reach 40k you have yo play long and consistently enough. Both are equally impressive but 10 scoring titles is like being the league's top scorer for 60-70% of your career.
Play long enough and you could hit 40k, even as a mediocre player. Can’t ever say the same about a scoring title. Can’t be mediocre or rely on just playing for a long time; it literally requires you be the best.
Longevity is impressive. But it shouldn't be mistaken for actual talent and skill. Prime vs Prime, we know who's better lol
A player would have to average 24 ppg for 20 seasons to reach 40K points. That don’t sound like a mediocre player to me.
And the real fact is that MJ led the league in field goal attempts per game in all 10 of his scoring title seasons. So basically, he just shot the ball more than all of his peers causing him to average more points…now is that still as impressive?
You’re acting as if those scoring title players never had a second place finish
Since they are the only ones that did it, I guess both are pretty hard
The piece about making 10 scoring titles easier would be to include second a third place finishers as that is the more accurate metric for near scoring title.
Does anyone else have 10 top 3 scoring season? Compairing a binary to a spectrum otherwise doesnt work. If you were going to do it the other way it would be to count how many 27 ppg seasons people have and compare that to the number 20. That being said it seems like Jordan's accomplishment may be tougher(looking at number of players with 14 and 8 eligible seasons).
To win ten scoring titles, you need to score the most points per game in the entire NBA (and qualify) for the majority of the seasons in your career. On the other hand, you need to average two thousand points per season for twenty seasons to get to forty thousand points for your career. I honestly don't know which one is more difficult.
I'm pretty sure if Jordan was drafted 3 years earlier, and didn't retire for 2 seasons. He would reach 40k
I’ll do you one better. If you take the time he missed for breaking his foot and baseball and plugged in his average he’d pretty much have 40k points.
@@dominiquewilson Forgot about the broken foot part. I think he got like 300-500 points that season.
@@BackboardBuoy.2zqwa the crazy part is he averaged 28 but scored the most total points his rookie season. His 3rd year he averaged 37 so I’m being modest saying plug in his average. He could’ve easily averaged anywhere from 34-40 points his sophomore season if you check the numbers you’d see the year after he broke his foot he went 37, 35, 32 and 33. So me saying plug 30 ppg is actually low balling. He averaged 26 the baseball year only playing 18 games while also getting back into basketball shape and went back to averaging 30 the following years. So after averaging 32 he retired. He could’ve easily still been averaging 30+ the baseball years. That’s why I know Jordan would’ve had 40k. And imagine if he never retired after the 2nd 3peat while still in great shape and not a 40 year old man. Those would’ve been a couple more productive seasons. People don’t understand
he aint need to play 3 more seasons just take away the seasons he could not play and have him playing them, he would be past 40k
@@TheOrangePatriot Probably. Jordan went on a streak of 30ppg before he retired. Considering that he turns 31 in the 1993-1994 season, He would probably would average from 27 minimum to 31 maximum. Now, Jordan had over 5, 82 games before his first retirement. He averaged 74 games im his first 9 seasons. Considering that he got 80 in his second to the last season, and 78 in his last season before first retirement, Jordan would've probably gotten 74-80 games if he didn't retire. The average from both numbers are 77. 77 multiplied by the average of 27-31ppg is 29. Meaning that Jordan would've gotten 2,233 points that season. I found out that he missed 3 seasons before his career in Washington. He was 35 before his second retirement. He missed his career from 36-38. Jordan had 28.7ppg in the 1997-1998 season, and 22.9ppg in his 2001-2002. The ppg difference is 5.8. Divided by 4 equals to 1.45. If you're wondering why it's divided by 4, it's because if you did divide it by 3, it would mean that Jordan got 22.9 in his 3rd retired season. If you subtract 28.7ppg from 1.45 each 3 seasons, you can get 22.9ppg. 28.7 minus 1.45 is 27.25. 5 is a decimal number you can turn into a higher whole number. Meaning that He could average 27.3. He played 82 games before his last season. He played 82 games 2 seasons well before his last season, Meaning that he could play another 82 games, but I'm pretty sure that can't happen. Jordan might've played from 70-80 games. Let's say he played 78 games. 78 multiplied by 27.3 equals 2,129. 27.3-1.45 is 25.8. Let's say this time he plays 74 games. 25.8 multiplied by 74 is 1909. 25.8-1.45 is 24.35 or 24.4 multiplied by let's say 70 games equals 1704.5 or 1705. 32,292 (Jordans points), plus 2,233, plus 2129, plus 1909, plus 1705 equals 40,268.
What about push the total point to 42k? Lebron can do that after this season.
I do think 40k is easier than 10 scoring titles but it's not either one's fault.
Scoring is just more inflated today however you put it(pace, defense, skill) meaning it's harder to win a scoring title especially since most of the guys in todays league are scoring oriented. Even the pass first guys are average 30 or getting near that. Obviously that's not to take away from LeBron, this record is still not getting broken in our lifetime.
Like he said, in the end it's one to one for both so technically equally as hard.
Scoring titles is easier simply by the fact if you have the green light by the coach you can throw up unlimited shots. Shaq could have averaged 40 a season easily but it would be a deficit to team play especially deep in the season.
Literally the exact OPPOSITE would be true. If all coaches gave their top scorer the greeen light to score, 40K would be VERY easy to accomplish. But if every top scorer had the green light, they would be competing with every other player to win the scoring title.
Who can last that long being that efficient?@@RichardRennes
@@reign1594 Being how efficient?
@@RichardRennes 54% in his what, 21st season?
@@reign1594 His ACTUAL career true shooting percentage is LESS THAN 1% above the AVERAGE in the NBA. And the only reason his efficiency went up the last year was because his shot attemps went down to his 3nd lowest levels in his entire career. And his minutes per game were the lowest in his entire career oustide of his rookie year. So, the more he plays and the more he shoots, the worse he is.
On one hand, getting scoring titles is hard because you have to be the best among the league, which is not the case for points total: you can be no.2 your whole career and be the points total champion anyway.
On the other hand, to get the total points record, you have to be good enough to stay in the league for a very long time, and be in shape to still be performant past your prime.
It's the same old debate between peak and longevity.
At the final season of Jordan's career, he averaged, 37 min/game and played 82/82 games. While LBJ, last season played 35min/game, played 71/82 games. So longevity category is still a complete disaster for LeBron.
Are you kidding me? 😂
The obvious answer is scoring title because of odds. 1 player each year can win it. And most players get less than 20 chances to do it. So you have to be #1 in scoring for over half your career. 1 player a year thats it. 40k points has unlimited slots you just have to want it and go for it. Someday we will have someone new entering the 40k club yearly until 50k becomes the new goal post.
3:02 bro is playing Ram Ranch talking about Lebron. Epic
Here is why it is harder to get 10 scoring titles :
Even if you played 40,000 games and scored 1 ppg, setting the record, there is a chance that no matter how high of a ppg average you have during the season that another player could be averaging more ppg for the scoring title, which could happen theoretically during every seasons of a players 20 year career. So based on law and averages, the scoring titles are more difficult to achieve.
The variable is how difficult it would be for a player in 1990 to get medical treatment for longevity.
Context is missing in jordans bulls days it was much harder to score for multiple reasons, which u can easily see by the scoring averages the teams put up in comparison to today.
10 scoring titles while shooting 50% from the field while also being the best defender in the league and winning two 3 peats is more impressive...
Michael Air Jordan 23 🤴🏿 GOAT Nu 1 Greatest ever Unstoppable Legends 🐐🐐🐐🐐🏀🏀 scoring titles10 🔥🔥🔥🔥🦅 fly like an Eagle jump 48 Spece Jam Games 82 PPG 45.2 72-10 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 no losses 0 finals 🤯 Flu Games 🤒 best defender 9 🛡️
Top 5 in all time scoring lists while only played 15 seasons is better .
The hardest to achieve is to get 40,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and 10,000 assists; and of course, achieving 15,000 assists
@@rodrigotisnes9828 no, not with modern day medical advancements. Decades ago, a player that reaches 30 is already done. Today, Curry and KD play the same due to modern day medicine.
Could Lebron do this with 1980s limited medical treatment?
@@rodrigotisnes9828 do you believe the winner of a Marathon works harder than Usain Bolt? Because its a marathon? Any Marathon winner cannot beat Usain in the 100 or 200 meter dash. Like others say.
@@rodrigotisnes9828 the medical technology exists in 2024 for Lebron to do this.
@@MB-cb2he I think that Jordan had access to the best medical treatment of his time. Aldo, it's worth noting that from this era, with modern medical treatment, only Lebron has been able to achieve this continued excelente. Anyway, my point is another. I understand that scoring is important, but I do really think that achieving 40,000 pts plus 10,000 rebs and assists is plainly incredible. And also Stickton's accolades, who by the way, played un the 80' and 90's
@@MB-cb2he Both work hard in their disciplines. But my point is different. I believe that the most astonishing achievement from Lebron is his cummulative carreer "triple double"... It's like he had been a Marathon, Javelin and Boxing olympic medalist. No one has ver achieved 40.000 points. But I see that more attainable than someone getting 10.000 points, rebounds and assists
10 scoring titles
Stop!!!!! The answer is both, and neither is easier than the other
100 points in a game
40,000 points for a career
10 scoring titles
Wilts total 40 point games
John Stockton assist record
All very impressive & most likely unbreakable
@@TheJohnWick1where’s the proof of the hundred pt game? Stocktons good but cp3 honestly might beat that record now that he’s just gonna be assisting wemby all game
@@JaMorantfan420 Cp3 isn't breaking anything, stop it 🤣🤣, & since you're on youtube, im sure you have Google, go ahead & do the research you need, It was a different time back than, every game wasn't being recorded in hd quality my friend, I don't see any reason to make a great conspiracy about a fake 100 point, There were witnesses back in the day, articles, multiple sources from back then that claimed it happened, I can use your same logic against you, where's the proof it didn't happen 🤷
@@JaMorantfan420 I agree tho, cp3 is finna get them assist up this season with Wemby, but he's not breaking that record
@@TheJohnWick1 maybe not this season but pretty close,
Someone will break Lebron's record because its a longevity record, they all get broken eventually.
No one will get 10 scoring titles because that means you have to be the best scorer in the league for a decade, without getting any major injuries.
You have to stay healthy for 20+ seasons without any major injuries too to break Lebron record. Most players today can’t go 2 full seasons without missing time. Not to mention that 40k might turn to 45 or 50k by the time Bron retires which gonna make his scoring record even more impossible to break
These 2 things are completely different. One speaks more to longevity and one speaks more to skill.
It’s simple math people. If LJ shot 23 times a game like MJ he would have averaged 30+ ppg for his entire career. He would have 10 or so scoring titles, he would have gotten to 40K sooner and would still be top 5 in assists. Let that sink in. Both GOATS though.
Keep point in scoring. It’s easier to score in today’s NBA. So the scoring is naturally inflated because of rule changes that favors offense.
Scoring Title is harder because you cant get there by stat padding and losing thats why its only been done by someone 6-0 in the finals. Anyone else would have to chuck there way to those numbers and wouldn't win more or be efficient. Which would mean there scoring role would be reduced after a couple of years because the team would suffer. Not only that but you can measure it against everyone else without injuries or games off being a factor which makes it a rawer measurement.
Kareem’s total will always out shine Lefrauds.
Tougher era, and no 3’s.
They’re both hard. Only one player has accomplished each of those things. Both players had to have the skills while being in situations that made their accomplishment doable.
Scoring titles are usually won by players on a team without good team mates to share the scoring with. Such teams dont win championships. The fact MJ was so good he could win a scoring title and championship in the same year makes it even more special, only 1 other player has done that in the past 53 years (Shaq 2000) and he only did it one time. MJ did it 6 times. That gives him the edge. Lebron's longevity is only special compared to the past, it will be the norm in future. There are a ton of mid 30s players that are likely to play til 40 such as Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Jrue. And dont forget that Lebron was drafted at 18 which is against the rules now, so you need to take away 1,654 points from his total if you're going to be fair.
The next closest to 10 scoring titles is Wilt with 7. So 2nd place is 30% lower than MJ.
Lebron has roughly 40k points and kareem had 38k. That's only a gap of 5% less from lebron to 2nd place.
In order for Lebron's to be considered as good using this metric, he'd need to finish with 58-60k points in order to be 30% higher than Kareem.
Here’s a theoretical question about these two. Imagine lebron and Mj played each other one on one every year, starting in, say, 1996. What year do you (the person reading this) think lebron would be able to beat mj the first time? I’ll go 2005
It depends on what team he's on
@@antiarezzo7630 1 on 1
Lebron wouldn’t beat MJ on the cavs, even if he’d try his best, the only other person that’d be competing is his center, so I don’t think it’d be possible until he joined Miami, not because of him as a player, but because of his team, which wasn’t as bad as people say it was, but it wasn’t enough to beat MJ, I argue that his team in 2018 was worse
40k points is beating everybody in History. Scoring titles is just beating the people you’re playing with. Let’s be honest, they ain’t have Steph curry’s, and Hardens, or Durants back in the 80s, 90s.
You can argue Kareem's scoring record his more impressive than Lebron's is first of all.. Kareem played 4 years in college and shot no threes in his career. Yet, the difference in games played for the record is less than 2 NBA seasons .
The only seasons when LeBron averaged close to MJ's career FGA mark, he scored over 31 ppg (which is more than MJ's career ppg).
Before LeBron led the league in ppg, he came in 3rd, 3rd and 4th. After he led the league, he came in 2nd three seasons in a row, then 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, and 3rd again.
LeBron was within reach of leading the league many times, and if that had been any goal he had, he would have done so. By comparison, MJ's goal was ALWAYS to lead the league in scoring, and he averaged the most shots every year to do it.
I think the answer is that getting 40k total points when you are primarily a playmaker, and one of the best assisters of all time is harder than getting 10 scoring titles as almost a pure scorer in an era where there aren't as many pure scorers as other eras
jordan was not a pure scorer. he was a pure all around.
But, no one who is primarily a playmaker has ever got 40k points.
There were many scorers during the 1980s. The 1990s were a slow paced era, so scoring was lower.
Luka Doncic averages most points, assists, and rebounds his first 7 seasons than Lebron. So does Oscar Robertson.
Lebron is like someone who can win a marathon, but cannot win the 100 or 200 meter dash
Wouldn't it be harder for Lebron to do that under 1980s medical science where a player at 30 was usually unrecoverable? Today its feasible for KD Curry Lebron to keep going with today's technology
You're forgetting the tougher defense MJ had to deal with to score. Today's rules allow for easier scoring. This is a fact.
If Jordan didn’t retire and had 20 season at his average. He would have 42k
Didn't Kareem get close to 40k points in 20 years? He got over 38k. Also, MJ played what 14, 15 seasons in all? He got closer to 40k in those years than Leflop got to 10 scoring titles in this 20 year period.
imagine your life being dedicated to hating on a billionaire nba player cause some people consider him better than ur goat 😂 get a job unc
Lebron broke Kareem's scoring record in 150 games less than Kareem. "Oh but he had the 3 point line!" If you made every 3 Lebron made into a 2, he'd still have beaten Kareem's record in about 50 less games.
@@reillyhopf6508also need to add that LeBron has taken more shots than Kareem
@@JigglesLovelyalso need to add that MJ averages more fga than Bron
Lebron is an underrated scorer, he scored only 1-2 points off 30 ppg for many years while getting 7 assists a game.
How can he be an underrated scorer? For his career averages compared to the rest of the league, he is a below average 3pt shooter, a below average mid range shooter, and a below average free throw shooter. And that`s WITH the help of the refs for most of his career.
@@RichardRennes yeah he is an average shooter actually but in the paint he is unmatched. Check the stats he scored almost 30 a game.
@@RealMichaelJJordan DID you just say he averages almost 30 a game in the paint? He`s only averaged over 30 a game TWICE in his career, and NEVER over 32 a game. His career average is 27.1 per game, he averages 5 pts off of 3 pt`ers a game, and averages 5.6 pts on free throws. So assuming he takes ZERO shots outside the paint that aren`t 3 pt`ers, the MOST he COULD average is 16.5 pts per game. The MOST is 16.5 assuming ZERO perimeter shots EVER in his career. 🤦♂
@@RichardRennes you just said he is a below average shooter but he makes shots from three. You contradicted yourself. And I said he was 1-2 points of scoring 30 a game most of his career. Check your stats.
@@RealMichaelJJordan Are you high?
Scoring title is even harder to get now as you need more than the 31 a season listed. Multiple people were around 31 last year and before his injury Embiid was about 36. If KD wanted to even hit his 5th scoring title now would be a massive task, doing it 6 more times? Nope. Even going off those numbers, if Embiid could've won on 36, he's already looking broken down, he couldn't possibly go long enough to get to 10. Luka possibly could, but he's got a lot of competition chasing him.
Kobe Bryant is closed to Michael Jordan level 💯👍🏿👌🏿
Scoring titles by far. And PPG.
The total points amount is largely due to long lasting health.
Lebron 40k seems like a lot. But Luka Curry Durant Harden aren't far behind if they play 21 years.
I like the music changes. Slim shady and chemical plant zone
I don’t think either records will be broken 🐐 👑
10 scoring titles easily no one has half of those also that’s 10/15 years buts easier when you play more than 20 years without getting injured.
But factor in that you have to score that much points each year for so long and be healthy in a sport that you can breakdown and get old that is very hard to do. I think both is equally is hard
@@redbogaming6009 lebron is 6’9” with no fat and the only reason he plays like that at his age is because he spends millions each year to keep his body in good shape that technology was invented 20+ years ago.
1:49 Why do you always make the players do that dance LMAO
I have and always will be a fan of MJ. But 40,000+ points total in a career, even with today's "soft defense" (which I believe to be true), is still monumental in itself. The amount of self-discipline to take care of your body for that long is something people really should strive for. It also requires luck that nobody falls on your foot or knee creating a career-ending injury in a sport where that could easily happen.
I mean lebron allegedly takes peds to boost his performance so it's combo of taking care of yourself and taking enhancers.
@@MicroWave233I think that he either takes peds or uses a lot of money to keep himself in shape with dieting and workouts
Being healthy as an individual regardless of the team and wins is an easier feat. LBJ as the face of NBA also helps him secure his health by other players avoiding him to get injured (like a plot armor for a protagonist in a story). It is smart and now he just needs to play with his son and I think that is it for him. Nobody can get that scoring title, unless he still wants the rings he need to tie Jordan's, which is more likely impossible.
Being remembered fondly vs being remembered as Lebum: which is harder to achieve?
40k is harder cause Lebron is the only nega who eva did it
G.O.A.T period
Thank u soooooo much for not Fence sitting.
LeBron went to 8 str8 Finals, 10 total with 4 chips now that's epic
Clearly 10 titles is harder. Being the best offense 10 years. Bron is great in all aspects of games, but longevity got him there.
Being better 10 different seasons > staying healthy and viable well into your twilight playing career.
Bron is not averaging 33 pts a game. If he tried he would become less efficient, cause hes not a good shooter. lol Assist are also contributions of the player you are passing to. So you can't automatically say Bron is responsible for those points.
If Lebron wanted to, he'd average 33 lol. Why are you adding some strange limitation like he has to shoot? He's the most dominant slasher in league history.
@reillyhopf6508 Negative; Bron had 20 years to win multiple scoring titles-so many hypotheticals around Bron and false narratives.
Jordan technically played 13 full seasons, we can objectively say that if he played 20 years, he would have his 10 scoring titles and over 40,000 points.
@@reillyhopf6508 brother have you even played basketball before ?
yes lebron would average 33 but he would have to sacrifice a ton of efficiency to do so because thats simply the nature of getting more points, to act like that had no effect is interesting at best
@@Carvis23 He didn't win more than one because he's not as scoring dominant as Jordan. Lebron finished #2 in total scoring eight straight times from 2005-2012 and finished top ten in assists in five of those seasons. That's the type of context people like you like to ignore.
@@steezsteezsteez Oh the classic "Do you even play basketball" to try and act like your statement is somehow correct.
When did I say his efficiency wouldn't drop exactly? The point is is that the OPs comment assumes Lebron is for some reason going to settle for jump shots when that isn't his bread and butter. If Lebron WANTED to average 33, he'd put less effort in on defense and wouldn't look to play make and his efficiency would drop, but it would be minimal.
MJ only played 15 years - 32,292 pts.
LBJ first 15 years - 31, 038 pts.
Don't forget Jordan went to college. James drafted out of High School
Do People realize Lebron has taken the most shots in NBA history, and about to pass Kobe for the most missed shots in NBA history???
If Jordan wanted to hit 40k points, he would have accomplished it faster and this doesn't even account for Jordan putting up the points during the slow game era where scoring was close to it's all time low. While LeBron couldn't average 30pts consistently and scoring has consistently increased each year since LeBronze joined the league.
Imagine players that scored 15 ppg the season before Jordan's last year then got over Jordan's worst 20 ppg season once being traded to a better team, and I think we could have a list. I think he could have 25 ppg if Jordan ring chased and joined the Lakers when returning.
I don’t think so, better team = better players which means you get less shots
Jordan didn't retire mid-season and it wasn't just a decision it was harder than that.
Thing is for LeBron his passing and scoring are so symbiotic he probably isn't as good at either without both. At least that was true in his prime, he dropped dimes when you beat him to the basket or walled him.
No. It should be 6 CHIPS vs 4 CHIPS. Which is HARDER.
Lebron james is Hear the most HP Super Team 🧐🤔
I’d say 10 scoring titles is more difficult. If you look at 40,000 points wilt could’ve done it if he played more than 14 seasons, Jordan could’ve done it and Kareem and Malone were close. Only wilt is even close to 10 scoring titles.
I think 10 scoring titles is more impressive also, however there has to be a scoring champ each year. This means you have a 1 in 450 or how many ever players there are to be the scoring champ each year. There has been thousands of players and only one has made it to 40k. Also it’s not just 40k he looks like he has another 15k in him. Again not poo pooing Jordan, 10 is an insanely dominate amount for anyone and to get 10 in 15 years is God level. I think LeBron is the most complete basketball player ever but I give the edge to Jordan when it comes to scoring.
Jordan had barely any comp for the titles. Only once in the entire 90s did a guy not named Jordan average 30ppg.... Once.
Extended that to Jordan's entire prime (87-98) then still only twice did some else managed to drop 30ppg...
Compare that to the actual lowest scoring, toughest defensive era of all time (the 2000s) 6 people averaged 30 ppg and it happened 12 times.
It's like bills 11 rings, very impressive but overhyped given context.
What's harder a real look at the actual context. 40 K+ points in 20 + years or 10 scoring titles in 13 yrs 15 if you count the Wizards yrs too
Lebron james is not closed to Michael Jordan level
It's hard because the Scoring title is a relative award, while the 40k is an absolute award.
I think it will be harder to get multiple scoring titles in the future because there will be a lot of competition.
And getting a scoring title, mathematically, doesn't even mean you made a good scoring season, let's say hypothetically, that teams distribute the ball more, and a person gets a scoring title by scoring 20. It isn't as impressive.
Looking at Michael Jordan's record in an absolute way would be counting his ppg. Then, if I'm not mistaken, he is tied first with Wilt with 30.1ppg, followed closely by lots of players such as Kevin Durant and Allen Iverson...
(Wow! I just saw the list, and it is full of newcomers.
1. MJ, 30.12 ppg. 2. Wilt, 30.07. 3. Luka Doncic(!), 28.68, 4. Embiid, 27.88, 5. Elgin Baylor, 27.36, 6. KD 27.26. 7. LBJ 27.13 . 8. Jerry West 27.03. 9. Allen Iverson 26.66 and 10. Bob Pettit 26.36
For active players in the top 20 we have Trae Young (unexpected for me, ngl), Damian Lillard, Donovan Mitchel and Curry, around 25ppg
If we take a look at this, we will see there are other players close to MJ
Idk it's hard to say since the difference between a career average of 27 or 28 and 30 is a pretty large gap. Luka has the best shot at it given he's reached that mark twice already. Embiid could maybe do it if he has a few more monster scoring seasons and than injuries cause him to retire without having the usual several seasons of drop off.
scoring titles is based on other players' performances. if the other players in the league are weaker, you'd win a ton of scoring titles. 40K points is simply a statistic you achieve.
It’s you vs the entire league for 10 years, vs you vs yourself for your career
I like how you explained this in the video but ima have to go with 40k points being harder simply because it's an end of career achievement but you had to have been at the top level for at the least 19 seasons. Neither is easy tho and I won't take anything from either achievement.
better offensive player, better defensive player. no debate here.
Saying that no one got close to having 10 scoring titles just because of the number of scoring titles is dumb.