I’m a 24yo dude and I’m super introvert, growing up I’ve had little to no friends (male and female) and nowadays I avoid everyone, even close family because I’m not good with people. The only characteristics I don’t share with the descriptions of an incel is that even though I’m bitter at the world I’ve always blamed myself for my failures and never felt entitled to sex. Probably no one is going to see this comment but it made me feel a lot lighter writing it.
I was a lot like you for a while; I encourage you to get out there and meet people! It is scary and difficult, but it is worth it once you find the right people. I wish you the best!
I definitely think labeling themselves as an incel leads men to think their cause is hopeless so they just give up on bettering themselves or taking the extra work to figure out how to make female friends. best of luck to you on your journey, i personally dont think anyone is truly hopeless & im glad you refuse to admit defeat!
Don't let the word "incel" get to you. That word has turned into such a meaningless buzzword used by the leftist soyboys and feminists as their weak and lame insult against any man who disagrees with feminism or refuses to blindly white-knight for any woman. They use "incel" so frequently because these leftoids can't meme worth crap nor can they come up with any better insult comebacks and counter-arguments.
one of my best friends is autistic. I introduced him to his wife. be you, DONT YOU DARE stop being you. she is out there brother. remain humble, remain strong, and know you are worth it.
Theres two types of incels one by the definition and the other by the subculture online, if you label yourself then it is an alignment to the subculture or group. If you then join the group then you become like the group. I just think any persons time is better spent on anything else than an obsession which seems very concerned with what other people are or not doing.
I like how "Hero of the incels" is considered an insult. How dare someone try to help young men in a dark place, how dare he give hope and support to young desperate and confused people. What a horrible guy.
What's even more ridiculous is that JP has a family and kids.. and is by definition not an incel. Just goes to show how society feels about men. Someone tries to help them and show them there's a way out and he's ridiculed for it. Better just to write off incels and ridicule them cause fuck them right?
Nobody’s saying that. That’s needlessly callous and doesn’t resolve the problems which produced inceldom, nor the problem which incels themselves potentially constitute. But what _is_ problematic is that Jordan encourages incels to feed the system from which they have no hope of extracting the rewards they aspire to obtain. And that effectively amounts to “put up and shut up”. Because, the fact is, incels generally _cannot_ hope to attract a stable & loving partner, because the social and financial conditions required for them to ensure this have been compromised, _by design_ . This isn’t to mention that society is collapsing as we speak, and here we are worrying about whether some subsection of the population breed or not- all while the material and social conditions of our fragile existence are being brought down around us, right now. A convenient distraction to divert the attention of the feckless herd perhaps? Not perhaps- this is _definitely_ one of the functions which the all-too-convenient incel phenomenon is presently fulfilling, and _most_ successfully (to reference this video as a case-in-point). Furthermore, I’ve seen it written that both incels and feminists are but two sides of the same coin: men and women equally repulsive to the opposite sex, both for their lack of psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually healthy sexual self-expression. I’d say this “hits the nail”, because the fundamental repulsiveness of many (although not all) incels is that they _aren’t_ men. They aren’t even _close_ to being men. But then this isn’t exclusively true of incels- they just happen to be that proportion of men who haven’t successfully compensated for their lack of essential masculinity through relative material and social success. But that problem-of poorly developed psychological and emotional gender expression-is a _systemic_ issue, and one which effects _everyone_ subject to the conditions of techno-industrial consumer-capitalism (i.e. “The Matrix”). And that is because, subject to this system, we are all helplessly trapped within the _shadow of Freud_ , in that we’re all bound within an Oedipal Matrix in which we impulsively substitute material rewards and externally approved symbols of gratification for the necessary maternal affections we were _all_ traumatically deprived of the moment our umbilical chords were unnaturally severed before we were hung upside-down at birth. In short: we’re all traumatised infants wearing adult clothes, and we’re too mentally ill to realise it. And given the truth of this, anyone dependant on, subject to, or particularly defensive of that system of control (The Matrix) is _by definition_ psychologically juvenile (a juvenility from which narcissism invariably forms in the individual’s attempted separation/individuation). In other words, almost everyone in society is trapped in an infantile stage of psychological development (narcissism) from which they’ll never escape, and given which they’re helplessly addicted to and dependant on a system of protection and providence (their surrogate “mother”). Granted that people differ in the degrees of this narcissism, and the type and severity of its expression (the stereotypically whiny incel exemplifying particularly frustrated narcissism for example), but make no mistake, we are _all_ narcissists. By design. The “machine” was necessary for seizing people’s minds to promote their engagement in repetitive, menial, and abstract work (for pointlessly marginal & trivial rewards in return), but it necessarily _also_ produced exactly the reality-detachment, self-absorption, and individual non-resilience by which it presently destroys itself. A self-destructing civilisation: a “nuclear” society, no? So, if incels are a generation of frustrated narcissists (which is exactly what they are) whose frustrations betray the decay of a system whose populace _had to be_ broken in order to run it (a system whose shelf-life was therefore necessarily always limited), then how is promoting “values” endorsed by that same perverse system helpful to these men?
Depends on how you look at it... Hero of the incels as in figurehead of a culture driven by blaming others and foregoing self improvement? Pretty bad. Hero of the incels as in the person opening their eyes and guiding them to a better life? Pretty awesome. One enables, the other saves from. I think it's very obvious which of the two the woke people mean. So your argument becomes a strawman, basically.
That's very telling, isn't it? They don't want people to be better, to have hope, to actively seek a better life. They don't give a shit about any of that.
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As someone who has spoken to a lot of incels online and also had a neighbor who was an incel, what he's found match quite well with what my hunch was. That the vast majority of incels are just lonely guys whom, for whatever reason, have a difficult time meeting women. Painting them as misogynistic terrorists in the media is mostly just kicking someone who's already down.
Is getting a girlfriend that difficult? I am hardcore introvert. There are always some girls who are interested in me .
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@@debanikgoswami4834, I'm reluctant to speak to that. My experience is similar to yours and I've never really been single for any period longer than I, myself, have chosen to be… but when I hear that 1/3 of men under 30 have either not had sex in the last year or are virgin altogether, then I guess it must be?
@ And I don’t understand why girls get boyfriends. It’s not going anywhere, they won’t get married, so it turns out it’s just a form of temporary prostitution but done for free. After that they will do the same with another guy, and another guy, and another guy, etc etc etc 😕
Wow, after learning the definition, your father is completely opposite. He puts the blame on us as men for not being successful. Especially how he goes against being a "beta male" (lack of a better word). If anything he's helped a lot of people break out of the victimhood mentality.
Huh...sounds like you started to get it in the end of your comment there. You said it at the end. "If anything he's helped a lot of people break out of the victim mentality." That was his message working on you. Don't hate him for it. JP is telling you even if you are a "beta-male" (whatever that is) that it's not inherent. It's your thinking. It's your lifestyle. He's telling you to take responsibility, grow up and change yourself. Because your powerful. More powerful than you feel inside. Incels don't need to prove that to everyone else with a shotgun. They need to prove it to themselves. They are the only ones who believe they are not worth anything. Tragic. Jordan Peterson doesn't stroke your ego if your ego is hurting you. Plain fact. He changes your perception with truth and insight so you can be a better person. And sometimes that's painful. Just take it in without judgement at first? Maybe try that dude? You can do it. I believe in you ♥️
@@lukehamilton3518 You don't get to decide if you are a beta or not. You can identify as whatever you want but you are what you are. The alphas get the best girls and to be one you have to have them also think that you are one.. otherwise you are just pretty fly for a white guy.
“You might be asking yourself why I am concerning an entire podcast on incels”. Nope. Entirely understand why because Olivia Wilde has lost all respect due to her comments about your father. There is simply no way she could have been more wrong. It’s indescribable how wrong she is.
I'm the type that looks in all the places most people are afraid to think about let alone approach in substance. I've come to learn the social environment in ways that allows me to identify metaphysical properties and interactions. I could tell you now, If none of us asked or said anything about particular subjects and people, we'd remain ignorant to them. When we know nothing about those we see as problematic in society, it's because we're comfortable with the situation and have nothing to address.
@@diananeuman6222 We take this whole thing as a negative someone doesn't understand, but is it? I spend a good bit of time measuring my words because I know everything said will be misunderstood and not at all absorbed the way I've intended. It never will because we all live in little bubbles/fields we call social atmosphere (fear & fair).. This carries reoccurring echo and reflection. In this mirror atmosphere we all speak our own Babylonian confused language believing everyone exist in the same density of thought and dimension. We don't, but our language is synchronized in a manner that creates illusion and delusion we do. Because of this domesticated, stabilized, trained and preprogrammed society we live in, most of us aren't only confused about the world we live in, we're equally confused about who we are in it.
There are people who are voluntarily celibate too. Sometimes, a period of voluntary celibacy can be extremely helpful if you find yourself jumping from one unhealthy relationship to another. There is a lot more to life than sex, and trust me, sex is far better when you have a genuine connection with your partner.
"...sex is far better..." Why does this have to be defended? Anyway, I'm glad you've come to this belief. As I understand it, there is an actual, post-modern term for preferring a genuine connection with a sex partner, whereas it was always common, cultural knowledge in modern times.
@@paigemccormick6519 I have had many times in my life, including now where I have been celibate voluntarily. Unfortunately, today's hookup culture world and the fact that cheating has become normalized makes it difficult to date at times.
@@dannyllerenatv8635 Danny, thanks for your extended thoughts. Let us not be slaves to today's culture. Hard times for all deserve examination. I'm with you.
@@kristinab1078 That sadly might just be the case. Integrity, morals, and values are everything to an individual. Knowing that you let those things slip is equally as painful and in some cases, even more painful than a breakup, getting played, or someone disappointing you.
I think he's wrong about why higher status women are reporting more. It's probably because they're more likely to report, not necessarily because they are facing more intimate partner violence. Anybody with a good understanding of violent crime knows that reporting rates do not necessarily reflect rates of violent crime.
Of course women are weirded out of making more then husband first time in history. Lots of men still in 1950 and don't know what to do if not providing like so called man.
@@sadhu7191 I suspect what he mentioned might not be happening at all. I hear about this higher rate of reporting and see how he explains that means a higher rate of domestic violence, and think, "Bullshit; this guy knows nothing about violent crime." There is no way that educated women, are falling for psychopaths at the rate that immature and financially insecure women are. It's just not happening. And psychopaths are leading the pack when it comes to all forms of abuse.
He’s not wrong. Your other comment below saying no women educated fall into it, tells me you are the one that knows nothing. It’s absolutely happening and a lot! It makes no difference in your education.
What strikes me about this whole situation is that sex has become this modern day Idol that everyone bows down before and worships. Its as if sex (or lack thereof)is the determining factor on whether you're happy in life or not. If you're not having sex you should be just as happy in your life as if you were, sex can't have that much control over our happiness. But so many people are immersed in self pity because they think something they need to be happy is being denied to them and when that happens a victim mentality develops and from there, bitterness takes root. And its completely unnecessary, because the truth is you dont need sex to be happy, this is a lie perpetuated in the culture through movies, books, magazines, advertising. If you're feeling unhappy in your life because you dont have a girlfriend/boyfriend and as such theres no sex, you gotta stop and think this through. You gotta realise that when you insist that without sex you'll be unhappy and with sex you'll be happy, that what you're doing here is making your self a slave to sex and another person, you're placing your happiness in the hands of another person and when you do that, disaster is sure to follow.
@@butwhyyyy4870 It's actually not and if you read my comment fully you'd understand why I'm saying this. If you don't believe me, test it out for yourself. Abstain from all sexual activity, whether that's sex with another person or masturbation. Abstain from it all for 6 months. If you do that you'll see that you don't need sex "to feel loved" and you don't need it to be happy in life. You'll get along fine without it but most people never face this, they never test the notion that they need sex to be happy in life. They're afraid to do this because of the fear of feelings of loneliness that might arise, or other uncomfortable feelings. And those feelings come up for sure, at the beginning. But these are withdrawal symptoms and if you persist through the withdrawal I promise you'll come out The other side knowing that you never needed sex to feel love or to be happy. You'll come out the other side with a new found freedom in life.
@@eoinMB3949 you thought of yourself as smart when you typed all that crap?, lol. He said "I suggest you read up on how necessary it is for people to FEEL LOVED.", not "I suggest you read up on how necessary it is for people to HAVE SEX", sex is not necessarily the same as feeling loved. A lack of affection(And by affection I mean physical touch, receiving gifts and words of affirmation, etc) is actually linked with depression and higher stress levels. And these effects don't just go away after some time like you're trying to suggest, they stay for as long as you lack any kind of love in your life.
I always appreciate an interview where the interviewer allows the interviewee the room to speak, and doesn’t interrupt every minute or so in the name of “keeping the conversation moving” ❤️
When talking about the need for a man to have an area of dominance, I think the deeper reality is that a man's worth and value in his own eyes is largely due to the esteem (i.e.-respect) that those he loves have for him. As a husband myself, I have a deep heartfelt desire for my wife to hold me in high esteem. Being respected is perhaps the most crucial way that men feel they are loved. Spousal abuse and violence is utterly abhorrent, but a form of spousal abuse is prevalent in our society that is not physical, but psychological. There is a powerful cultural trend of demeaning masculinity that has seeped its way into our marriages such that women are being convinced that respecting and honoring their husbands somehow takes away from their own honor and respect. The relationship becomes a zero-sum game where one partner has to be subservient to the dominant other. Submitting to, respecting, and honoring each other would be a good way forward...
Those are good points, thank you for bringing them up. If we could, as a society, get past this stupid competition between the sexes thing and realize we’re all in this together, and give love and respect to our partner, maybe everything would be a whole lot better! Partnerships are supposed to be about working together, not about power. I feel like that should be inherently obvious, you know? But apparently not…
@@Thegraylady Have a word with the ladies then my dear, they seem to be the ones calling ALL the shots with relationships. Like I have, men are checking out for good now. Any guy that's had his pants pulled down in a divorce, any guy that's been in cuffs because SHE hit him or made up some BS to get him in trouble, any guy that's prevented from seeing his kids by his bitter ex, I think they'll be inclined to agree that the only way to truly win at relationships is to not engage these harpies in the first place. 80% of divorces are filed by women, that statistic alone suggests that we men are trying to please the unpleaseable. As for women being kind and nurturing, well that that doesn't stop them from destroying families and even affecting THEIR OWN KIDS with their unrelenting obsession for MORE.
its not just marriage, its society in general and its created what we call simps or betas. and in reality, no woman actually wants these men, they created them to squash them down to feel better about themselves which is all around abhorrent
When Patrice O'neal was trying to figure out why he had so much pure love for his dogs, moreso than his fiancé even. He eventually arrived at the conclusion that it's because they depend on him, but don't act as if they don't. Women are fundamentally only attracted to men who they can depend on, but are relentlessly shamed out of ever admitting dependence of any kind; nevermind appreciating it. It's one of the biggest cognitive dissonances of our age. In the ideal scenario of sexual social dynamics (evolutionarily speaking), submission should empower a womans confidence in her biggest strength; the power and intuitive wisdom to choose the correct mate for the betterment of humanity (ultimately a womans biggest power over men is submission, counter intuitive maybe; but so is yin/yang and so is life/death). Women do have more power over men, but only as long as they're not trying to be dominantly masculine... pretty ironic. But the only thing more powerful than masculine dominance is the divine feminin.
I rented a room to an incel for a couple years and he was "ok" but what is interesting is he'd make statements in conversation every so often that were presented unironically that would really surprise me. He had exceptionally high standards for the girls he would be interested in but no standards for himself. He thought he'd be able to go to Japan and his whole situation would change despite looking like Godzilla as a fetus. It was very strange.
@Lisa Fenwick look up JustPearlyThings on UA-cam she's great 👍. But those statements women act entitled to things they don't deserve and they act like victims are true statements for many women these days. Just because you may not be one of them doesn't make those statements false.
Yeah. Godzilla is the male ideal in Japan. John Lennon's son Sean by Yoko Ono definitely had the full on barbarian look as I saw him in local concert once. He was playing a very old Spanish style acoustic guitar like my old original Silvertone. So good & now gone. Must have been his dad's.
@@athejbaka7084 I don't get the proud bit, all I know is, the traits and behaviours that seem to heavily work in dating nowadays from what I have seen occur, usually require someone who has a mindset that by nature isn't good and doesn't care about the other person at all, despite how it would come across to other people, I have no inclination to adopt those traits, I am however completely accepting of the cons of that. If I live a long lonely life, so be it, there are some traits that I refuse to adopt regardless. That's my opinion anyway.
@@cagedinsane9929 Nice cope- good looking and attractive men aren’t anywhere near as evil or ill intentioned as you want to believe. Painting them as evil or somehow less virtuous than you is a defense mechanism, but it’s not true.
@@lionofallah3441 Where did I mention attractive or good looking in my response above, I am just going by what I've seen and admittedly young not exactly world experienced. Just curious why you would specifically bring in the good looking or attractive part, make a connection to the bad traits I did mention and then insinuate that my comment was doing that. You say nice cope, so I am going to say nice reaching.
I hope Dr Costello (to be) knows how important his research is. This was absolutely amazing and insightful. I highly enjoyed it. I’d love to read his final thesis. Thank you so much for this interview.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue. People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her. A lot of guys have never had that. This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that. The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow) Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society. What are we seeing in the west now? Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels. White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes. Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends. White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle. With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be toxic.
Thank you both for this conversation. What I find interesting is I have spoken with young females as well who feel like they will never be able to reach men's standards of attractiveness and do themselves not know where or how to start meeting someone they can have a meaningful relationship with. If I'm understanding correctly, the incel group felt better during covid....seems to be a state of loneliness, isolation and depression that people need help navigating through. Your dad has helped me take practical steps and encouragement to dare to make even small positive changes in my life despite bouts of depression, do shadow work and work at changing my internal dialogue. I adore your dad's commitment to helping people. I will always be thankful to your dad for his kindness, wisdom and insight and fully support his commitment to common sense and personal responsibility to yourself and "grow where you are planted" philosophy. It's never too late to rewrite your story. We are all in this together. Much love and thanks.
Yeah birth rate is stalled world wide first time I history economies are tanking. Men and women's mind explodes and on top of it we don't understand eachother causing fighting
Do they vaguely resemble women? If yes, then they already surpass male standards of attractiveness. Anything that resembles a woman, be it a female dwarf, a mannequin, a female corpse etc will get more attention from men than men like Elvis or David Beckham could ever dream of getting from women.
@Seattle Rain - The question would be what men are the looking at when they decide they aren't attractive enough for? Based on studies on dating sites, most women find 80% of men to be not attractive. So the average looking girl could find the average looking guy and they would settle down and do well, but average girls are looking at the guys above their level. These guys will have short term interests but not necessary long term interests with the girls below them, which will make the girls feel unattractive and needing to do more. Dating sites and the 2 to 1 men vs women and being the new way to meet someone, it inflates the womans ego (girls get way more matches than most guys, outside the top few % of men. Its causing a vicious cycle of hurt all around except the few guys at the top getting all the action without any committment.
@@steveh5641 Hi Steve, Interesting. Too bad that young people seem to be unwittingly caught in the digital dating scene. It seems to be very superficial and hollow for both young woman and men alike. The thing is, that's just life my friend....there will always be people that fare better based on attractiveness. It's a story as old as time and I personally believe both sexes are aware of this universal truth, however, the blame game or stats are surely not going to solve anything. It only serves to perpetuate a self imposed lonliness that only hurts the person in perceived competition with a standard and what a dreary outlook to willingly stay in. Call me niave but I still believe if people make an earnest effort to put their best foot forward and invest in enriching their own life and the lives of others in service, instead of dwelling in a lack in our lives they will feel better. I have found being in a giving rather than receiving attitude is really good for many things that get us down. I've seen it and experienced it myself as well. I sure do hope so anyways. As well, we all have to accept and not take personally the fact that a relationship may not be in the cards so to speak for everyone but that does not by any means mean they are not worthy, less than or have less to offer the world whatsoever, just maybe not in the cards. Life is still good and our relationship status should not define us. Just my humble observation.
Mikhaila’s podcast is so refreshing and the kind of content I need more of. Her sincere curiosity and thoughtful questions help me to really think about the topics and not just confirm my biases unlike what I usually find entertaining. Most content I come across lately is extremely saturated with an agenda. Refreshing to come away challenged instead of just entertained or steered in a certain direction.
Becoming celibate is very hard to do at first. It's like giving up sugar. You experience withdrawals and cravings. But after 3-4 years, something changes. Your psyche/physiology adjusts and the appetite for sex becomes less and less intrusive. There's a wonderful freedom to it. You can think more clearly. You become more spiritual. And your capacity for love expands to embrace a wide field of many different kinds of people. The reason for the celibacy of Buddhist monks and Catholic priests becomes clear. Your love can embrace a whole flock rather than just a family and a few friends.
I like how, somewhere between your parents and your other forms of education, you learned to face the monsters that roar in your direction so that you can take them head on. Not many have that talent anymore. Took me a minute to figure it out, too. Keep working hard and know that I support it. Thanks.
I'm Hungarian and families do get massive benefits here. Tax breaks, financial aid in various forms (childcare allowance - basically paid maternity leave for 3 years), student loan forgiveness, discounts for family cars, home purchase subsidies, loans without interest ("baby awaiting loan", for example), etc. This still doesn't really produce the desired effect, to be honest. Our economy is in an extremely bad shape and inflation is around 30% (but in some cases it feels like things have doubled or tripled in price since 2021). Because of the family financial benefits, people who don't want 3 kids basically have no chance to buy their own home, unless they get indebted for life. Wages are extremely low even compared to wealthier countries within the EU, while living costs are almost the same. In this economy, truly responsible people are still reluctant to have kids.
The use of the term “pseudo-intellectual” in reference to Jordan Petersen is, for me, what I suspect a perpetually funny fart joke might be in some circles…perhaps Olivia Wilde’s circles…it would explain so much. None the less, I laugh every time I hear it. Without fail.
They deride Thomas Sowell in similar terms. Lefties like to imagine that they have a monopoly on THE SCIENCE (TM), so they get angry when a credentialed person refutes their religion.
The Pseudo-intellectual it's like low key insult because it's stating they are INTLECTUAL in their own subject field with their own people in their own echo chamber, but the topic of that intelligence could be total bullshit made up trash like "TRUST THE SCIENCE" Peterson doesn't' speak in echo chambers and is often disagreed with, i mean easy way to find out how fake their science is test them with the what is a woman loyalty test. it exposes the brainwashing.
I went 6 years without female contact from 24 to 30, im an introvert with bad social anxiety, depression and low self esteem with women, im different as I was in great physical shape( competetive kickboxer) I finally met a woman that accepted me for who I am , still married at 60 although if something happens , I would die alone, I never blamed women for my problems, always knew im fucked up....
@@thedarkestknight8381 how come i see plenty of young men that are not good looking or tall and they still have a girl in their arm? i highly doubt they are super rich either. also, as someone who works at a nightclub i can tell you that size helps, but is not neccessary. at all.
I am on my fifth year being a single. I am 30. I work as a carpenter, no women there. I don't ask women out in public, feels very weird to me. Like you I am probably little more fit than avarage men since I played football and gone to the gym more or less my whole life. Most of my friends either have families, moved far away or stuck in addiction. So meeting peeople in a bar, means I have to go alone, just like Jeffrey Dahmer :). I am also a Introvert, who likes to read dostojevski, and sing and play guitar by my own. It's pretty funny, I am a handy man, swedish(high beuty standars, according to many), tall, fit, i got some abs goin xD, plays guitar and sings and still single. I am probably one of those who take a retard picture too close to my face on tinder. I have 1 picture. I don't wanna brag about my car, or my abs on pictures. I feel it is incredible narcisstic to take photos on your self from different angles. There you go! I lost my social circel of women a few years after school and here i am wishing to be raped, lol.
I’m also 30, fit, read Dostoyevsky and nice… Still single for the past 7 years & all my life before that. I don’t blame anyone or stay mad that I’ve been rejected by guys who are way below my ”league”. And I’ve never went after any chads that’s for sure.. quite the opposite. 😂 Still not much luck. So, I may be looking for love & some guys just sex, but at the end of the day none of our needs are being met. Relationships are unfortunately harder & harder for anyone to find or maintain.
I think we should address incels by challenging males in their senior year of high school to produce a female to tell government agents, “Yes, I have had sex with him. See, his life MATTERS.” All high school senior males who fail to accomplish this task should be either FORCED INTO THE MILITARY, or EXECUTED UPON HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION!! I think that will drop the amount of incel-induced violence against women, AND make life a whole lot better for women in general, by increasing the chances of the only guys they run into being ones they will either want to fuck, or feel safe around. Besides, women can’t say that they are going to MISS these guys, or that they NEED them around in their lives or even in their companies. We all know that the only men who deserve to be in this world are the ones who women actually WANT to fuck, because straight women always want to be a part of fuck-boys’ harems and shit. Who’s with me on this?
I think most people are more comfortable with the old standard "Women don't owe men sex", "Incels are losers for not receiving what women refuse to give them" dynamic. It's alot more comfortable and easier to digest. And it ends the conversation rather early.
Lots of women are going to be Incels. Female version. Incelette. Black Pigeon Speaks has a video. Called Left Over Women. These are women who wait till they are old to find a man. Over 35. Then they are too old to have babies. After 40 no one wants them. What do you call a man no woman wants to have sex with? Incels. What is a 40 year old woman? Incelette.
🤔 the irony of two beautiful married people discussing the mind of the incel. I got 1 question. How can you two define incels ? When neither of you have lived through it. You have no idea how it feels when nobody wants you. When laughter and insults follow u down the hallway. Then the realization of adulthood hits u like a transport truck. 40 more years of high-school . This kind of stress could certainly motivate a school shooter. 💯
My only thing that I would like to add is, don't expect anyone to change just because you changed. The reason for your self improvement should be because you want to and not just because you want to attract the opposite sex. Its not a guarantee that you would change anyone's mind. You can only control yourself and what you expect of yourself.
@@randomguy13863 everybody copes. If you're bored, you cope with music/TV. If you feel inadequate with your body, you cope with working out. If you feel lonely, you cope by surrounding yourself with others. If you lack a belief system and feel empty or senseless, you cope with another worldview/belief system that makes you feel better. Many men of history got a long just fine wo/ the need to impress the opp. sex.
The comparison between Mikaila’s experience with auto-immune support groups and the Incel subculture highlights how group think can be so toxic. It’s interesting how the more people demand “safe spaces” the more cruel those same people can be. If you are questioning the dominant narrative out of a sincere interest to learn or grow or heal (I.e., not a troll) and get summarily shut down, then find a door or window and get the hell out. That is not a healthy place to be.
It's easy to compare and conclude when you assume what the other person or groups capability is and based on popular assumptions you're not proving incels to be cruel or anything whatever you're trying to conclude them as but instead repeating the already existing opinions about incels of people who know nothing about it.
What you say about social media groups at 38 mins is interesting. When I was first diagnosed as having Asperger's as an adult, I was in a few Autism groups to find solidarity and information. I'm no longer in as many and don't participate as much precisely for that reason; the identifying with victimhood. There seems to be a lot of validating limitations and getting mad at anyone who suggests we can do more. It's like validating the real challenges of autism, then can become a determination to be defined and limited by them in less helpful ways. For me meditating and changing my diet and lifestyle helped me shed a lot of the co-morbidities like ocd, insomnia, anxiety and such. I'm still autistic, but have reached levels of functioning some autistic people say are impossible. And of course there are different levels that are achievable depending on the level of challenge, but I feel it's a mistake to get stuck in your current situation as set in stone for anyone.
Brilliant! We all have limitations but more importantly we all have been blessed with gifts. You find what yours are and go with it. We are all important and all types are needed. I have always been told i am too sensitive, as if being a caring person is wrong. I always felt bad about it and tried to change it but i could not, it just felt wrong. One day i read about a study that was done with monkeys in the wild. They took the sensitive monkeys away from the group to see what would happen to the group. When they went back to see they were shocked to see the entire group of monkeys were dead. Turns out those sensitive monkeys were the ones to warm the group of incoming danger. See, we are all important and needed and don't believe in the limitations others put on you. They don't know what you are capable of!
@@SunnyCarnivore exactly. We're all meant to be different and have different roles that benefit the whole. It's odd that we expect everyone to be the same.
I agree. I think it's important to recognize individual strengths and essential skills early in childhood and young adulthood and develop those as much as possible.
The term "incel" has developed a lot of negative connotations, but it never started that way. I know the term is usually male specific but it applies to both sexes. I believe they use the term femcel these days. A lot of incels are single average looking bachelors in their late 20's or early 30's with a decent career and own house. They live a generic lonely life. Not some 40 year old living in his mom's basement. They're not necessarily bitter or have a vendetta against women and are actively looking, they just don't want to "pay" for sex. Due to the stigma associated with the word, it's not really fair to place everyone in the same category. In fact it can be demoralising as one is always trying to improve themselves but fails constantly. I think people need to take a step back and accept that not everyone will be blessed in all aspects of their life and just focus on things they can change, rather than "if you do this, you will get laid" mentality.
Are you sure it never started that way? I kind of remember first seeing the term pop out of the mainstream media in response to the side-effects of third wave feminism: "The new incel movement is the cause of x, not the backlash from new age feminism". It even sounds like it was built to be decisive using the standard mislabeling tactics we see elsewhere. You can attack someone who is voluntarily celibate by calling them an incel, or just label someone an incel who isn't even celibate. Or perhaps the nature of the term is going to allow for it to be divisive no matter what it was named, I really just assumed so due to where I believed to be the origin
@@chasmurphy1227 Like all terms, I never saw it negatively when I originally heard it (and looked up what it meant). To me it only seemed logical that not everyone was "f**king" and didn't look further into it. Later on I saw it being used commonly as an insult. Which is a bit of a farce - "If you're not getting laid you're worthless". That's literally the message being sent. I don't believe that for a second, but I agree that it's current definition probably did originate from mainstream feminism to look for ways to ridicule males. Etc
I’ve lived in Tokyo for years, there are plenty of so called “incels”. But no one try’s to turn it into an identity. They just get on with their lives & take interest in other things like anime or model building. Why can’t we do the same?
Rich, fascinating and tasteful episode. Always backing your father and you Mikhaila, you guys speak sense. Reassuring to know an intelligent man (with a beautiful voice) speaks with such grace and optimism despite the topic. Will endeavour to check out your research William! You guys did well here x
One of my favorite parts of the interview is at 13:08 when he mentioned, "I sort of sound like your father". You could tell he geniunely enjoys JBP and is a fan, and why wouldn't he be? Great work all around on this one.
I love you so much dear. You dad must be very proud of you. The relationship you seem to have with your dad reminds me very much of the one I have with my own dad. I find your content very valuable. Thank you for putting yourself out there! -Gracie-
What Connor McGregor does to people that refuse to drink Proper 12 whiskey is violence. Saying a hurtful word in the heat of an argument is not violence. A grown man spending money out of a shared account with his wife is not violence. A grown man refusing to demur to his wife is not violence. There is plenty of real violence in this world without mislabeling non-compliance as violence.
@@sarahrobertson634 quite a peculiar way to talk to someone. Why do you hate on others beliefs? Considering this person’s beliefs, Id like to point out the blatant illogical thinking to generalize nobody answers to Sky Daddy, anymore. Considering clearly, theres atleast 1 out there. The odds are that you are not a maths major. Do You know why not everyone can be burried in a grave yard?
@@sarahrobertson634 everybody answers to God. Just because you refuse to believe does not make it not true. In fact wait till you die and you meet God and get judged. You'll be regretting the day you mocked him. Get on your knees, repent for your sins ask God to reveal himself. Who is the fool? Aethiests like yourself failing to see the myriad of signs that God exists including the bible which we are the only religion in the world with the oldest dead sea scrolls. Proof that Gods word was preserved through men. The bible has lots of scientific facts that have been proven . Please don't do the usual aethiest thing where you quote the OLD TESTAMENT. Yes it had murder and rape. But we're in 2022 we still have murder and rape what's any different. We don't justify the old testament as a way to live by its just a historical scientific reference of what happened in those times. The new testament is what we wish to imitate. Quote that if you want to actually debate a Christian. Mocking him calling him a sky daddy only serves you. It helps you to live with your choices denying God. In your world if you minimise and mock him belittle him he will lose his power and authenticity. But that is not how God works. He believes strongly in free will. He will give you ample opportunity to repent until one day you're driving home and a truck hits you and you're dead. Youll have all the chances in the world to repent till you don't. Mocking will not charge your future. Repent get saved.
@@sarahrobertson634 ahh yes because the way society’s going after leaving religion behind is totally progressive! You know, with even more objectification and exploitation of women and porn eating up people’s brains. Totally healthy, just shows you that people just never need a moral guidance because we’re just so good. /s
The problem is that less attractive people (of both sexes) are marginalised in every way. They earn less on average and the halo effect causes better looking people to be assumed to be better people.
hello! I'm actually typing this with tears of joy because your channel has truly changed my life forever. two months ago i saw one of those advertising reviews about crypto trading and i was in desperate need of money so i risked some of what little i had and gave it a go and since then its been an abundance of financial benefits. I really don't believe these ads but I was really desperate and as the Lord may have said I was lucky enough to find a legit one
You're welcome, in fact, I promised myself to come and give my testimony here for any sensible person to benefit from. If you already work with him, please can I get a like
37:30 Just when I thought I couldn’t love your Dad any more than I already do. We’re with you, Dr. Peterson and Mikhaila. And I know your Mum has a burden on her heart too.
Jordan Peterson has absolutely nothing to do with being an incel .I have no idea why someone would say he was we need more men like Jordan it would be a better world having more people like him that actually used their damn brains and showed some common sense. And I don't consider him right wing not even close...its insane what is considered far right these days especially how radicalized the left is now.
It has actually become really common for women to be interested in video games. My wife actually said that one of the reasons she was interested in me is because I like to play them; she's arguably more of a gamer than I am.
Hi, 34 year old lesbian here. Have dated around a lot. Not an incel. Even if I was a straight man I would like Jordan Peterson. Stupid to call his community incels.
Thank you very much for this episode Mikhaila. Not pitiful, but healthy and serious discussion with genuine concern for uplifting young men will go a long way and set a positive tone for future discussions. I commend you and William for this episode.
I have a new appreciation for all therapists and counselors after watching this. There are limitations and sometimes spiritual coaches can help also. It’s a reminder that there are people who have it so much worse than me. It shatters my whole worldview and puts my problems into context. The call to adventure is strong today.
I've never been an incel, but I have discovered the freedom of removing the desire for beautiful women. I think men are much more content and down to earth, it's truly revealed when become ok with being alone. Ironically, once achieving this, women seem to fall into one's life.
This is such a great outlook to have! I might add that from my own pov as a woman, I would much prefer to wait to devote myself to a man who isn't always "hunting" and sizing me and other women up, but instead is just living a responsible, honourable and productive life while maintaining an overall outlook of gratitude in general. There is something very appealing and reassuring about a man who isn't constantly on the lookout for potential sex or even a real partner (though he may desire it), but is instead spending his energy being an asset to his existing family, friends, and community without ulterior motives or resentment. That's the kind of solid human being that is most attractive (once you get to know them) to any sane female person. Just my opinion, but I know there are many others who would agree.
@John Grigg Although the pedestal is very flattering and most women let themselves fall into some version of that kind of relationship at some point thier lives...it's an exhausting and unrealistic thing to maintain on a long enough timeline. Being on a pedestal eventually starts to feel lonely too. In order for there to be a pedestal, there has to be some sort of distance between you and your partner. There is a barrier between you and your partner loving you despite your less-than-sexy/cute human flaws in order to maintain the illusion of being an object "worthy" of "worship". No one really ever wins in that sort of relationship in the end, and there is usually a destructive lack of accountability in that scenario too. Admiration and respect is necessary, but only as long as it comes from a realistic perspective of the other person, and not from some fantasy, or from some unhealthy co-dependent dysfunction.
There is no reference at all here to love. Love is a far higher thing than sex. I believe that what we are ultimately after is love, not just sex and validation
In 2019/2020, I finished reading '12 Rules For Life,' and decided shortly thereafter, with the help of Jordan Peterson's lectures, that I needed to leave this relationship with a woman whom was not right for me at all (long, awful story). Dr Peterson's work was the tool for me to open my eyes to myself and the situations I had put myself in. Since then, I have been focused on simply becoming the best man and partner I can be. My biggest problem right now is that I just turned 26 a couple of months ago, and, whilst I know I am still young, I know I am not getting any younger. I am a creative/musician/writer/spiritual/philosophical type whom has always been more interested in entrepreneurship and starting business. At the end of the day, and even in the beginning, I understand everything is on me. That's what karma is: your doing.
@@goodyangie1 No problem. Long story short, I was with this woman for about six months. I knew things were wrong from the beginning, but I chose willful blindness for two reasons: 1) to give her the benefit of the doubt bc she was in a truly awful situation; and 2) because I was simply infatuated. Without getting into the details, she was on drugs and unfaithful. She also gaslit me, allowing me to go through therapy bc I thought I was going insane with paranoia. Nope, I was right. More so, my gut instinct was right. It was listening to some hours of Jordan Peterson that I realized I had allowed myself to be willfully blind in a relationship with someone whom possessed psychopathic traits. I hope she is doing better now, but kicking her out of my life was necessary both for my development and well-being.
I watched an interview about the overwhelming number of young men struggling. They asked the question of what can be done and the man answered, almost giddy, public works. In my head all I could about was the gulag archipelago.
Mikhaila's face when she is trying to compute how it is possible for a single woman to have 69 kids 😅It surprised me as well. How a woman was able to physically survive 69 child births is mind boggling.
Im a 38 yr old male with autism, and have been alone for 13 years now. I have to strongly agree with his statement that the worst thing you can say to an incel is "you don't look so bad" or "you can get a girl". Nothing bothers me more. That being said, I have become rather content with dying alone.
I’m only a bit younger and while I am in a relationship, I also know that I will die alone. I just don’t think it’s something bad. Maybe because all my relatives died alone. We never made it in time. You’ll never be truly alone, there will always be someone by your side.
I had a great uncle who was autistic. He never married or had kids, but all of us in the family really loved him and miss him. If you really are content I think that’s great. Just remember that life (this whole human existence thing) is about living not about dying.
Computer games are an apex Art form. There are certainly bad ones, mind numbing ones, but the best ones combine visual art, music, story telling, and allow you to interact with it.
I didn't know what an incel was till today. I'm an incel I run my own business. My whole community recognizes me. I've been on every dating site. Concerts bars funerals weddings 300 plus cold approaches. Well over 90000 swipes never got a match.
Society is on a downfall in the west. It's not you man. My advice, visit Japan. I went and women were all over me. I'm 6ft, 8 of 10 looking and funny, I still had trouble dating in my 20s. Go east for love man.
That’s some extreme LDARfueI if that’s you in the pfp & you’re being honest. You need to check your OLD accs to see of they’re bIackIisted bc that couId a Iegit probIem.
As for interpersonal violence increasing, it can work both ways but in the old days when people lived with and around their extended families, there were severe consequences meted out by the other men and women who had a vested interest in keeping the peace and not allowing their family member to be abused.
There was also alot of shame upon those women who slept with multiple men or who broke marriage. In worst cases, those women were exiled or punished by death.
14:20. We are now experiencing modern day harems. Women would rather share a man at the top, essentially being used for nothing more than sex, than get married to an average man.
If you read this comment, then now maybe you understand why there are so many women crying their eyes out on ticktock videos. Talking about how no men today want to get married. Men do want to get married. But average women refuse to settle for average men. Well, around 50% of them anyways. It's *women* today that don't want to get married. Not men.
Very informative MP! Love that you let him finish his thoughts and had a natural dialogue. I find many female interviewers are jumping in to quick with unrelated questions. Maybe it’s because I watch your Dad being interviewed and they never seem to actually be listening to him … yet when Joe, Russel, Theo, Dave interview him - we get to hear his full thought.
I was thinking exactly that, never watched her before but she eclipses many male and female podcasters. Mikhalia maintains a solid attentive presence good work.
Many thanks for this discourse and discussion. Comparing oneself with others, as one perceives them, can certainly trigger a sense of life being unkind to oneself in particular, on top of whatever other sorrow one is experiencing. Articles on why suicides are more common in richer neighbourhoods give some insight into this phenomenon… Quoting from a 2012 article in Time: “Daniel Wilson, senior economist at the San Francisco Fed, and two co-authors found that for two individuals with the same income but living in two different counties, the one who lives in the county with a higher average income is 4.5% more likely to commit suicide. At first it might seem surprising, but it begins to make sense when you think about how we tend to compare ourselves to those around us. You might assume that suicide rates would be elevated in lower-income neighborhoods and counties, and the study’s authors do point to findings that higher income generally lowers suicide risk. For example, an individual with family income less than $10,000 (in 1990 dollars) is 50% more likely to commit suicide than an individual with income above $60,000. The twist comes when you look at low income individuals who live in high income areas. According to the study, they face greater suicide risk than those living in low-income areas. The study’s authors call it a ‘behavioral response to unfavorable interpersonal income comparisons.’”
Yes, compete against yourself. Strive for continual improvement. Fall down seven, get up eight. Being alone is better than being lonely. When you love yourself, you'll attract the right person, if that's right for you.
I feel like categorizing them as having a "victim complex" in this scientific tone is just going to further alienate them. These people are isolated. They don't have friends. Usually they don't have anyone but their parents. The last thing they need is people telling them to stop whining. They need a friend or family member in their life to take them to a baseball game or something.
@@fairlyenjoyable Yes therapy to realise their self loathing and hatred is merely a projection of how they horribly they feel about themselves and feeling ostracised and alone.
@@thearodriguez5251 You can be really ugly and that is okay. And you can even be an involuntarily celibate person I think thats okay too. We should stop shaming people that are like that because it reinforces the radicalization problem.
I suspect it's a symptom of over nurturing by one or both parents such that they've never had to learn socialization to achieve externally sourced gratification.
They’d hate you saying that too. ‘Baseball won’t fix my life!’ some people can’t be reached, IF they refuse to be helped, and like having their confirmation bias fed and watered continuously, like their echo chambers online, do. It’s a vicious circle, like a kind of sink hole. some can be stopped from swirling away down the plug hole, but many are in so deep, it seems impossible to reach them. They need to reach up too, halfway
This is the 3rd podcast I've watched with William Costello. Topic is insanely interesting and hits pretty close to home even though I'm a bit out of the age range that william described being 27 years old. I really enjoy this topic because It's almost a community that is so easily accessible to young guys and it makes it much easier to sink into instead of doing the hard earned labor of taking better care of yourself and working on making yourself a better candidate for friendship, relationships or a more sought after person in the world in general. It's a very easy thing to fall into and can actually see how I might've been involved somewhat in a type of incel thinking in my early to mid twenties which is something I'm really trying to rectify
Another point to add is that a lot of people in society and including my self at times have described men who try to seek status as actually tyrants when infact that isnt usually the case. I've found hard to distinguish as well in my own life when I'm acting out of tyranny and when I'm actually acting in more accordance with who I am as an individual.
Youre right Evan and I wish you the best, I think you will be very successful because you are self aware. I think a lot of women simply want men that are clean, orderly and mentally stable. I mean clean in body and health. Small things- like if you have a beard, shave cleanly up to the beard line, its the male equivalent of makeup. By orderly I mean want Jordan means, clean your room, clean up your life, keep an ordered lifestyle. Have a job or two even if it means volunteering because you cant find a job yet. I am not directing this at you Evan, I just meant young men in general who wonder what women want
@@renamed304 Very interesting name you have there haha. But thanks a lot for your reply. I appreciate the feedback and comments and think you touched on a few very important things. The reality of woman settling however in todays day in age is also troubling and it's tough for guys to get going because I think there's a lot against us. There is however a lot of people for guys improving their lives so
I think the best thing anyone can do who wants to have successful close, interpersonal relationships, is to work on improving their emotional intelligence. Learn to take accountability and actively listen. As your EQ improves, you will become much happier and more successful in all of your relationships.
My wife is first of all AWESOME for 26 years of marriage. Secondly, she is Vietnamese. I noted that their culture sings and talks A lot about food. We in America sing about status and sex. I wonder if this is more of a consequence of wealth? We are not starving, so our focus is more about sex.
With the issues of young vikings. I read a romantic historic novel that spoke about young men sailing abroad to find wives and it was a deadly voyage, but many young men wanted to make that voyage so they could find a wife. So the Viking thing has been cleared for me because it never made sense.
May as well replace the actual human being with a goat in this narrative because that seems like the disgusting total worth of women when described like this
I decided to learn a language and went out of my country (the US) and married a foreign woman. I just couldn't deal with US women and their expectations. Breaking out of the box can be hugely important.
Women: You're perfect the way you are, its not you who should change but the world. Men: Work hard, look good, make a lot of money, be kind, be strong and do all these other things for other people and maybe we will treat you as a human being if youre lucky but dont excpect anything in return incel.
@@monikagolab8892 the point is, Women get partners far more easily than men, while men have to go through tons of trial and error just to get into an intimate relationship.
@@monikagolab8892 I tought we were striving for a more equal society? Or do you agree women should be subservient to men again? I see women whining about being opressed all the time when theyve never been more privileged than now. Can you really not see the double standards?
@@monikagolab8892 You can make your own decisions, but don’t be surprised if there are people out there that might say “is that demanding much for your situation”? The various dating profiles with laundry list of demands and the “Average at Best” video are good examples of this entitlement.
Hi Mikhaila. You said one thing that made my ears perk up. I really wanted you to expand on it but, alas, you didn't. It was about when you were in the autoimmune forums. You mentioned that if anyone mentioned lifestyle or diet you weren't prepared to consider that. You were almost offended. That sounds normal to me. You need to go through that period of grief. The "woe is me" stage where you want a savior to come along with a magic pill and save you. I'm involved in narcissistic recovery forums. I'm past the stage where I want to complain. I'm at the fix it stage. Taking accountability and responsibility for my actions. I can no longer be manipulated. I now captain my own ship. But so many are in the rumination stage so that they don't want to or can't take control of their recovery. What was the turning point for you that you took control and actually considered diet when that was so repulsive to you? If I could help people out of that "Woe is me" state, actual healing could occur. Self-responsibility/self-accountability could raise people from victim status to having control over their lives. I would love to hear what allowed you to change from victim to consider paths to healing?
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue. People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her. A lot of guys have never had that. This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that. The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow) Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society. What are we seeing in the west now? Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels. White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes. Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends. White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle. With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be toxic.
I love that you make these videos on this type of subject! I suspect that the motive behind this is to ultimately help people connect with a partner(s) in contrast to this huge problem we have of lonely people (loosely put)
Specifically speaking of the base definition of involuntary celibate, then I would agree for myself. Do I expect it? No. Never have have. Do I feel entitled to it? Absolutely not. When searching for a woman to be with, I've always wanted to establish the relationship first and foremost. Currently 32 years old, I have had a few prospects over the last few years but holy cow. What a mess the dating world is, where I live anyway. So, I've basically chosen to just forego finding someone and just focus on myself. Men have a really hard time just saying they're a virgin without getting ridiculed about it. I, myself, am proud that I still am because it means I haven't found the right person to share, what I believe, is a really special moment. I suppose I'm a hopeless romantic. I'd rather have love. Whether or not it involves sex. We have hands for a reason. Just sayin' lol.
Not that you asked for my advice, but I'm pretending that you are my younger self. "Go east young man, go east". I found my wife in Nigeria 7 years ago and couldn't be happier.
@@abboberg Lol. I'm not looking for a girlfriend or wife right now. Tried that, no thanks. This is me time lol. I honestly don't care if it's me time for the rest of my life either. I was merely stating that it wasn't for lack of trying to find a meaningful relationship that I've not been in one. But it doesn't bother me one bit.
@@thealphastrain101 Fair enough. But I will say this one more thing. My wife used to work in a nursing home, and a significant portion of those patients had zero visitors. My wife was the only bright light in their day. She was a noob and wasn't jaded like the other staff that had been there for years, changing diapers. My wife tells me that a man has no shelf life, but when he gets in his 70s and is still alone, that's when he feels the burn. I would have felt the burn in my 60s due to my health issues, but I have a wife to take care of me when I need her.
@@abboberg Yeah, I get that, but on the other hand those are likely the people who are bothered by being alone. Were you bothered being alone? I'm not. I prefer solidarity. I hate being around people and I hate meeting new people. I still have family and that's all that matters really.
@@thealphastrain101 Some people outlive their family and end up in nursing homes. Then there's not having kids or being estranged from them. You may be one of the lucky ones that either may not be alone or never feel the burn.
@@StarPanda7 Men typically favour women slightly above average in looks, and that's cross culturally "girl next door" etc. Women who are in the higher looks categories are just the spoils of war "Trophy wives" .9/10 and above women have much harder lives than average women they just have more money luxury and decadent experiences. Women favour those experiences over the genuine and abundant love lives of 6-8/10 women who get considerably more actual care and day to day respect. How many 6-8/10 women ask there partner to get surgery to climb the ranks of men and bolster themselves? Allot, and 80% of males don't want the surgical multination to occur. Y'all have fucked priorities just as much as we do.
I am sick of the labels we assign to people's names. A 'Karen'. A 'Chad'. There are real people out there with these lovely names, but are being shamed and even bullied for having them
I've known three women by the name of Karen...all of them wonderful people. I've always thought it unfortunate that they have to live with the labeling that is attached to their name.
Bad logic being used by people to describe someone is growing by the day. "He works with lost men, therefore he is the king of incels." This is also the consequence of reacting instead of actively listening.
The van attack started just outside of our office. It was a horribly frightening day. I still haven’t walked down Yonge Street and thinking back to that day, it still brings tears to my eyes.
The fact is that both men and women are devoid of love and commitment. Love is a gift you give to someone whether they deserve it or not. If someone wants to be with you because of your looks, your wealth, your social status, your talents, your intelligence, etc, etc. then they don't really love you. They are just taking advantage of you. The fact is that these things are ephemeral and do not last. So when you no longer possess them then the person who wanted you for them will leave you. Proverbs 19 says: Wealth attracts many friends, but even the closest friend of the poor person deserts them. Many curry favor with a ruler, and everyone is the friend of one who gives gifts. The poor are shunned by all their relatives- how much more do their friends avoid them! Though the poor pursue them with pleading, they are nowhere to be found. What a person desires is unfailing love; better to be poor than a liar.
YES. I’ve been pursued because of many things before - my status, my beauty, my connections. None of it meant anything to me at all. The one man I remember and still think about after the hundreds of pursuers I’ve had was the one I loved because of WHO he was. He wasn’t overly “hot” or the most ambitious or the highest status man. He was, however, one of the kindest and most smart and charming people I have ever met. I am so disinterested with modern dating because our culture values power+status+sexiness over content of character. But all that flashiness fades over time, and people who were chasing it will realize they were chasing an illusion.
@@vivianphillips768 I'm glad you can relate. Although I would also put content of character in my list of attributes that people love you for. The moment you are not as kind or happy people will leave you too. True love doesn't take advantage of anything someone has.
Very good interview overall. I was disappointed to hear the superficial nature of the speculations about the cause of increased reports of violence in relationships where the women begin to gain higher status than their partner. I have not heard of any reports that credibly analyze the underlying causes. We can also speculate that hypergamy could fuel resentment in the rising status partner, and they might start making up incidents or lashing out themselves verbally or physically at their partner as a prelude to breaking up. Speculation is useful but it can be easily misleading if there is no attempt at keeping it balanced.
I think you have good objections to this data. Educated women are probably more likely to use the court system to beat down their ex-es. Because there is no real proof required to charge somebody with violent behavior. She can only use her words, make accusations and that is it. Because at this moment there is no real punishment for false accusations. As long as there is no consequence for lying, abusers will take advantage of that. And smart women are pretty good at using loopholes like this to their advantage. Just because they are educated does not mean they are moral.
What i find very strange about men feeling insecure about higher earning partners is the mindset behind it. They look at it like, she doesnt need me and could leave me so they inflict cost when they could take a more positive point of view that she doesnt need me but she chose me anyway because she likes me so I'll try to be a beneficial partner emotionally and socially.
seems to me its just made women have worse attitudes in general when they start earning money. My woman earns decent money but she is nurturing and doesnt care for money either. Finding a woman who isnt money oriented is the best bet. Feel sorry for so many who think its all about money its quite sad and pathetic really, I let them carry on because I know those type of people will be in big trouble down the line with that attitude
It’s not just women. Anyone money centric is going to be a troubled person. Maybe the difference is that there is historic and social standards for a man who is concerned about having enough resources to take care of his family and be a good leader, but that’s different than being money centric. A money centric man will burn himself out and forget what they money is for or that it has value when it’s to take care of others. Women just are less likely to be in a role where concern for money works out well. It doesn’t really work with how we think even when we’re high functioning.
In evolutionary terms, men were always the providers & the women were the caretakers. It is somewhat hardwired in men's DNA to want provide for & protect women.
Men are not insecure about this. Stop projecting your own insecurity on men. Probably upwards of 95%+ of women do NOT date down in terms of financial income. That is a fact and women that do, end up resenting those same men and break up, commit some sort of abuse against said men, or divorce, if married.
I think a recurring theme is a lot of people who don't understand this, seem to be boiling it down to men not getting sex. Yes that might be a small part of it (sex means you're being physically accepted), but I am very confident to say that the majority of men in this situation actually would like to experience companionship, loyalty and feeling accepted by a woman. So just telling these men to go pay for prostitution is really missing the point. On top of that, you would be paying for a physical act, and ultimately, it is kind of hollow and fake. Of course some men are happy with this, and I completely understand. But in general these men are lonely and want to be loved and desired, just like any person does (female or male). Reducing it down to sex is really confusing the discussion. Men want to be loved and appreciated, and feel like someone has their back. (And by extension, they don't want to be cheated on, abused, misled, deceived or exploited) And I'm fairly sure these sort of expectations are common to both genders, not just women - who seem to be safer at expressing these sort of facets of what they want from a relationship as opposed to a guy that expresses wanting to feel desired and accepted, which is becoming less socially acceptable to say. As for the topic of incel itself, the issue is multi-faceted and a tapestry of different elements. Society, and by extension, women, seem to want men to "just get it", with regard to knowing intergender dynamics, flirting, behaving around women, knowing what they want, and knowing what THEY RESPOND to. If you don't "get it" as a guy, there's a higher likelihood that you will fall through the gaps of society with regard to sexual maturity/development. They become sexually maladjusted. Their sexual/emotional development stops and remains naive and immature. Then you discover online porn, only fans etc, which absolutely doesn't help, but initially it does, initially it's a salve for the absence of physical intimacy. At best that stuff should be complementary to a healthy sex life, at worst, it becomes a substitute. Then throw in all the cultural shifts, like modern feminism which just attempts to erode thousands of years of natural biomechanics - for women that is career first, family later. Single mothers being praised (but that son she is raising doesn't have a father role in his life, and is immediately flawed when trying to integrate into society). The sexual revolution. Dating apps/sites which removes the granular and natural act of meeting someone in person that was the norm 50+ years ago. Mobile phones which allow instant access to all the online stuff I just mentioned anywhere at anytime, which also includes a predatory effect of exploiting women's subconscious desire for always trying to find the best value of things in life (and they can easily window shop for the best thing on their phones, whether it's clothes, or men). The attack on the nuclear family and traditional gender roles. It's a massive mess. There's more, or rather more nuance, but that's enough for now as a 44 yr old male virgin. (And no I'm not violent or misogynistic. Just defeated and dejected. Like a lot of guys, part of this is that I've been sold a false bill of goods at a young age about women via films, literature, tv, etc. And it's a very big eye opening moment when you get a better understanding of what women want, what they respond to, how they obfuscate these things, and also never admit to these things in open discourse unless they're anonymous) Someone said somewhere about incel men probably being a bit autistic. As harsh as it sounds, I don't necessarily think this is wrong. A lot of this is about reading social cues. Of course, no one gives a flying fuck about autistic men in society. (not until they go on a murder spree). Autistic people by the way, have very interesting minds, and shouldn't be denigrated. This is a good article to read if you TRULY want to understand the nuance of sexless men. slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/
Like most young men that were lied to with bad advice when I was young, I believed all the crap and know full well the path that such "incels" go down. Luckily, I was born decently attractive and once I realized that... women were not a problem. What remained a problem... was seeing what made me succeed.... how shallow it was.... and just how much being a "nice" guy is completely disjoined from being successful with women. When I was young, women were wonderful and on a pedestal. They were a prize that I was hopelessly lost if I did not achieve. Propaganda without experience will have you believe that. With experience, I only found disillusionment. Women stopped being the wonderful goal of my life. I saw under the cover. I saw how the hotdogs were made. I was the only guy at a table of attractive women... who were all laughing about their "pathetic" boyfriends attempts to bare their souls to them. The more I saw the other side.... the more I realized that I didn't want any meaningful part of it. The reason we have incels.... is because we lie to men... and we gaslight everyone into taking part in the lie. Women aren't wonderful. They are people... and people become more horrible when everyone has to pretend they are wonderful. As long as we all have to pretend that women are a wonderful prize that is always worth whatever she demands...... and a man's worth is based entirely upon women wanting him.... we will always have incels and they will not be the ones at fault.
I'm very surprised porn wasn't mentioned in any of these studies - Do no underestimate the impact of porn.. I bet this is MASSIVE and perhaps the single biggest reason that incels become incels in the first place...
Forget the fact that only 45% of men as opposed to 85% of women have reproduced throughout history. Let's blame some lewd pc content that both genders enjoy for genetically undesirable men.
This was a very interesting interview. The point about Incels relation to manosphere or MGTOW was important. They often get conflated but MGTOW is a rejection of women, not a pining for women. Both will be critical of modern feminism, but for different reasons. The general MGTOW architype is "I am not a slave to my sexual urges and will not compromise my goals for it," which is the opposite of the victim mentality the incel community embraces.
True, but they lump us all together because they don't care to understand. I've been married 3 times, have 2 kids and 3 grandkids and have now gone MGTOW since my late wife died in 2017. Not because I hate women or because women are impossible to find, even at my age, but because I've finally come to realize I value my peace too much. I also have a 9 year old boy to raise and he doesn't need his only living parent to be running around at night chasing women. I'm not an incel, I'm alone by choice. Voluntarily celibate. Happiest I've ever been. Should have tried this years ago. I'll let the young guys chase the women I've had my turns at bat.
Woman not being happy with their dating options is in no way comparable to a man living a life without intimacy romance and sex . let me put it this way : if you have multiple food choices your are not going to choose the food you don't like, but if you are starving for several weeks that same unappetizing meal would be the best food you ever eaten .If a woman would only have one guy be interested in her for her entire life, I don't think she would say nah he's not my type . woman that are not happy with their dating options need to wake up. there is a reason MR. high status superchad did not introduce himself into your life
Another bang-up podcast, @Mikaila Peterson 👏👏👏👏 May I suggest that you bring William back and do a roundtable with you and your father. Perhaps as a Live stream. It would be your finest episode yet. Stay awesome, girl 💞💞💞💞
It is worth considering that handicapped and disabled people are objectively involuntary celibate but I do not believe they are in the same category as “incells”
You bring up a great point. Technically at some point most people are involuntarily celibate and that was kinda the premise of how the term first got coined back in the day for people that were lonely/single and didnt want to be. But now I see it used to describe people that are usually single and then go online and blame half the population for it even calling women "holes" and "toilets" all over social media. It's basically synonymous with Black-Pill ideology anymore.
Good point and I think the answer is yes. When JP & Costello talk about “Incells” they are referring to men who are physically and mentally capable but because of lifestyle choices and social pressures are not mating. I’m referring to men like veterans and automotive accident survivors who may even still be able to ejaculate but would not be capable of being a Viking or New World explorer as Costello said was the solution to “Incells” of the past.
Good insight and I agree any type of hate often leads to loneliness. However wouldn’t the self inflicted part be counter to the involuntary part of “Incell”
@@keanemorrissey5478 For them despising women and thinking they are less doesn't mean that they shouldn't have one. The involuntarily part comes from not being able to treat women like a second tier species and still get sex/bang-maids. So they are not celibate by voluntary choice but rather they are forced into celibacy because women are no longer forced into marriage with abusive sexist chuds. THats why most of the black-pilled and many of the red-pilled are against women in the workplace or having voting rights.
I got heavy into PUA culture in the late 2000's in London, so here is the problem is: The techniques do work!! So just like with any other human business you had all kinds of people and intentions: You had these people that would get addicted to it, that just wanted to get laid and would do anything, lie manipulate, etc to get that goal. There was zero self improvement in their mindset, it was about the lines and routines. But then there was another people who genuinely wanted to improve other men's lives and included a lot of self improvement "be that man she will desire" type approach on top of the routines. I met many men that just wanted a girlfriend, not to get laid every night. In the end for me, that is how I was able to meet my wife (15yrs together).
@@thedarkestknight8381 it certainly works, but you will always be your own reference point, it wont bring everyone to 100, but it will make you better than without it.
Excellent interview! I hope your dad is a leader of the incels. They need successful, thoughtful, independently thinking men to look up to, and to emulate. And your dad seems to fit the bill brilliantly. 🖖🏻
Your father is not the king of incels, he is the King of Intellectuals!...I feel like his apprentice when I'm reading his books or hearing his lectures. First time on your channel btw and I'm surprised you didn't have a Canadian accent! LoL
Anyone who calls JP an Incel King hasn't listened to him completely and in context. There are incels who take snippets of his videos and run with them. I remember seeing a clip about enforced monogamy vs polygamy. By the time it was modified, it sounded like 'Forced Monogamy.' And boy did the trolls run. 🙄 It wasn't what JP said or meant. It's crazy.
That so called Canadian accent is only spoken in one of the ten provinces of Canada…lol So don’t be surprised if 90% of Canadians don’t talk with THAT accent.
There’s no Canadian accent lol there’s only a Maritime provinces(east coast) accent, a very small part of Canada! Most Canadians don’t speak French either! From BC Canada 🇨🇦
I find it very insulting that anyone would call your father one from everything I’ve watched and as a woman your father is one of the smartest man I’ve ever heard speak on this platform he’s one of the most well-informed people that I’ve ever spoken out for women and men are like your dad is pointed out more and more that we are treated the same if we’re willing to act the same and as an aggressive female that’s not someone that’s gonna be placated yeah I’m just as good as any man I can do any job any man can do and your dad is trying to make it more acceptable for that to be the norm and I love him for that your father is one of my heroes as an adult and I think more people should actively listen to him with an open mind and stop letting the left is bullshit cloud your thinking process and actually do some critical thinking and think for themselves
This seems to apply more to women and men in their 20s and maybe 30s. Women that are now in there mid 40s and older experienced things a little differently but I could be off base. For example, men would say things like “You are a working girl or you are a career girl.” It was odd for people to say that because you have no choice you HAVE to work. Many older women were also raised with “don’t depend on a man and be independent so you don’t have to rely on someone else.” Many women in the past that were sLet’s be honest many older women put up with so much abuse for spouses and these are women who were dependent on their husbands. How would one explain that? Many of these older women as well as younger women would like to find a spouse and have kids but it is so expensive and the risks are soooo high. We still have laws and function as a society where someone stays home all day with the kids. If a person is single then there is unspoken rule that you work holidays, weekends and cover for people and yet get the fewest raises because you don’t have dependents!! So a single person is just tired and doesn’t have time and algorithms for dating apps want people to keep dating and using their apps. What’s the point of creating an algorithm where people get good matches. I am in no way saying that people are not responsible for their situation but there are factors where using ideas and approaches that worked in the past don’t really work now and having a glorified nostalgia for the past is dangerous because it wasn’t all that great either.
He was not in that generation. Jordan peterson might know about that. Women had it bad in past relationships. Only when we had abundance of food and easier life gives us time to reflect on what good relationships are instead needing each other to survive not love
"Many women in the past that were Let’s be honest many older women put up with so much abuse for spouses" - how many? I don't know. This seems like some feminist myth to be honest. Women have a propensity for viewing things in a negative way looking back. In the past we were at least able to maintain a functioning society. That is not true anymore and we are very fast heading towards destruction. If men and women don't get together to form families, the game is finished. The system cannot be sustained by individuals with no skin in the game, only going on holidays and having fun.
I can't believe that someone online is actually talking about this finally. Great job @Mikhaila Peterson for finding topics and guests that bring this to the public in a research backed tradition and yet accessible to wider audience. 👍
It seems that when talking about MGTOW no one is willing to get it right. It started with the MRAs who thought they could negotiate with modern women and make society more attentive to men's (and fathers') rights. Most of these MRAs were older men who have children and who had been destroyed through the family courts. After years of activism, many MRAs realized that women are not interested in making things more fair between the sexes. Women are in it to grab as much as possible for themselves, even if they have to destroy their spouses and children to do it. Some MRAs came to the conclusion that women see men merely as a means to an end : to be used then discarded at will. Those men were no longer interested in negotiating with women in any way and became the first MGTOW. Going your own way means that men should no longer put themselves last or sacrifice themselves for others' well-being. We put ourselves first. No more of this ''happy wife happy life' concept. We're not concerned with women's happiness, only our own. We build our lives, our skills, our money, our interests and keep it all to ourselves. We no longer provide for women : they'll have to do that for themselves. As to what society expects of us, it no longer matters. Some MGTOW continue to have friends with benefits, others find it simpler to stop having relations with women altogether; but the code is clear: No marriage, No children, No cohabitation. So when guys like you regularly compare MGTOW to incels you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You're either playing dumb or you can't be bothered to look it up. I WISH that the incels would wake up and become MGTOW instead, but clearly they're too thirsty to see what a liability most women have become.
An amazing way for a man to show status is to practice polarity. When a man can hold that pure stability of peace and meditation, holding the container for the devine feminine expression of pure emotion is so much more desirable than money.
1:02:12 Here I think it's important to bring into the conversation how many ways of being a man that we teach boys can be degrading for these future men, for example: being too stoic, pushing emotions aside, having to be the holder of most responsiblities, not caring about care-giving and other ones. There are many ways we've been taught to be men that limit us socially, disconnect us from our emotions and makes us treat ourselves as cannon fodder. I believe men not feeling masculine enough is also related to how we've taught them disadvantageous ways of being human; humans survived through evolution because we collaborated with each other and kept within strong communities that cared for each other, not because we throw ourselves at danger Rambo-Macho-Style.
The problem is you can't fix that until we can discuss female Hypoagency, male hyperagency, the male burden of performance, and men's gynocentric need for female validation to prove their masculinity.
I’m a 24yo dude and I’m super introvert, growing up I’ve had little to no friends (male and female) and nowadays I avoid everyone, even close family because I’m not good with people.
The only characteristics I don’t share with the descriptions of an incel is that even though I’m bitter at the world I’ve always blamed myself for my failures and never felt entitled to sex.
Probably no one is going to see this comment but it made me feel a lot lighter writing it.
You can change, you can become better and succeed. As long as you're alive then that's possible
@@liammullen2144 I hope one day I can overcome my shyness and bitterness.
Thank you for the kind words.
Hey man, just wanna say that I feel for you and wish you all the best. Change is possible.
I was a lot like you for a while; I encourage you to get out there and meet people! It is scary and difficult, but it is worth it once you find the right people. I wish you the best!
Could be like me, i was diagnosed schizoid pd.
I'm autistic and I struggle to meet women, but I refuse to be referred to as an incel. I feel like labeling myself as an incel would be self defeat.
I definitely think labeling themselves as an incel leads men to think their cause is hopeless so they just give up on bettering themselves or taking the extra work to figure out how to make female friends.
best of luck to you on your journey, i personally dont think anyone is truly hopeless & im glad you refuse to admit defeat!
Don't let the word "incel" get to you. That word has turned into such a meaningless buzzword used by the leftist soyboys and feminists as their weak and lame insult against any man who disagrees with feminism or refuses to blindly white-knight for any woman. They use "incel" so frequently because these leftoids can't meme worth crap nor can they come up with any better insult comebacks and counter-arguments.
one of my best friends is autistic. I introduced him to his wife. be you, DONT YOU DARE stop being you. she is out there brother. remain humble, remain strong, and know you are worth it.
As long as you continue to look for your own flaws and find ways to better those flaws you'll never be an incel sir!
Theres two types of incels one by the definition and the other by the subculture online, if you label yourself then it is an alignment to the subculture or group. If you then join the group then you become like the group.
I just think any persons time is better spent on anything else than an obsession which seems very concerned with what other people are or not doing.
I like how "Hero of the incels" is considered an insult.
How dare someone try to help young men in a dark place, how dare he give hope and support to young desperate and confused people.
What a horrible guy.
What's even more ridiculous is that JP has a family and kids.. and is by definition not an incel. Just goes to show how society feels about men. Someone tries to help them and show them there's a way out and he's ridiculed for it. Better just to write off incels and ridicule them cause fuck them right?
@@beeman4266 Being married doesn't exempt someone from being an incel. Deadbedroom/sexless marriages exist.
Nobody’s saying that. That’s needlessly callous and doesn’t resolve the problems which produced inceldom, nor the problem which incels themselves potentially constitute.
But what _is_ problematic is that Jordan encourages incels to feed the system from which they have no hope of extracting the rewards they aspire to obtain. And that effectively amounts to “put up and shut up”. Because, the fact is, incels generally _cannot_ hope to attract a stable & loving partner, because the social and financial conditions required for them to ensure this have been compromised, _by design_ . This isn’t to mention that society is collapsing as we speak, and here we are worrying about whether some subsection of the population breed or not- all while the material and social conditions of our fragile existence are being brought down around us, right now. A convenient distraction to divert the attention of the feckless herd perhaps? Not perhaps- this is _definitely_ one of the functions which the all-too-convenient incel phenomenon is presently fulfilling, and _most_ successfully (to reference this video as a case-in-point).
Furthermore, I’ve seen it written that both incels and feminists are but two sides of the same coin: men and women equally repulsive to the opposite sex, both for their lack of psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually healthy sexual self-expression. I’d say this “hits the nail”, because the fundamental repulsiveness of many (although not all) incels is that they _aren’t_ men. They aren’t even _close_ to being men. But then this isn’t exclusively true of incels- they just happen to be that proportion of men who haven’t successfully compensated for their lack of essential masculinity through relative material and social success. But that problem-of poorly developed psychological and emotional gender expression-is a _systemic_ issue, and one which effects _everyone_ subject to the conditions of techno-industrial consumer-capitalism (i.e. “The Matrix”). And that is because, subject to this system, we are all helplessly trapped within the _shadow of Freud_ , in that we’re all bound within an Oedipal Matrix in which we impulsively substitute material rewards and externally approved symbols of gratification for the necessary maternal affections we were _all_ traumatically deprived of the moment our umbilical chords were unnaturally severed before we were hung upside-down at birth. In short: we’re all traumatised infants wearing adult clothes, and we’re too mentally ill to realise it. And given the truth of this, anyone dependant on, subject to, or particularly defensive of that system of control (The Matrix) is _by definition_ psychologically juvenile (a juvenility from which narcissism invariably forms in the individual’s attempted separation/individuation). In other words, almost everyone in society is trapped in an infantile stage of psychological development (narcissism) from which they’ll never escape, and given which they’re helplessly addicted to and dependant on a system of protection and providence (their surrogate “mother”). Granted that people differ in the degrees of this narcissism, and the type and severity of its expression (the stereotypically whiny incel exemplifying particularly frustrated narcissism for example), but make no mistake, we are _all_ narcissists. By design.
The “machine” was necessary for seizing people’s minds to promote their engagement in repetitive, menial, and abstract work (for pointlessly marginal & trivial rewards in return), but it necessarily _also_ produced exactly the reality-detachment, self-absorption, and individual non-resilience by which it presently destroys itself. A self-destructing civilisation: a “nuclear” society, no?
So, if incels are a generation of frustrated narcissists (which is exactly what they are) whose frustrations betray the decay of a system whose populace _had to be_ broken in order to run it (a system whose shelf-life was therefore necessarily always limited), then how is promoting “values” endorsed by that same perverse system helpful to these men?
Depends on how you look at it... Hero of the incels as in figurehead of a culture driven by blaming others and foregoing self improvement? Pretty bad. Hero of the incels as in the person opening their eyes and guiding them to a better life? Pretty awesome.
One enables, the other saves from. I think it's very obvious which of the two the woke people mean. So your argument becomes a strawman, basically.
That's very telling, isn't it?
They don't want people to be better, to have hope, to actively seek a better life.
They don't give a shit about any of that.
As someone who has spoken to a lot of incels online and also had a neighbor who was an incel, what he's found match quite well with what my hunch was. That the vast majority of incels are just lonely guys whom, for whatever reason, have a difficult time meeting women. Painting them as misogynistic terrorists in the media is mostly just kicking someone who's already down.
Which ironically proves their (the extremists among the incels) point that society is against them.
Is getting a girlfriend that difficult? I am hardcore introvert. There are always some girls who are interested in me .
@@debanikgoswami4834, I'm reluctant to speak to that. My experience is similar to yours and I've never really been single for any period longer than I, myself, have chosen to be… but when I hear that 1/3 of men under 30 have either not had sex in the last year or are virgin altogether, then I guess it must be?
@@debanikgoswami4834 because you aren't 5 feet 2 and ugly.
@ And I don’t understand why girls get boyfriends. It’s not going anywhere, they won’t get married, so it turns out it’s just a form of temporary prostitution but done for free. After that they will do the same with another guy, and another guy, and another guy, etc etc etc 😕
He really knows his stuff. Like, to the point that he naturally acknowledges what he doesn't know throughout the conversation. Great episode.
Wow, after learning the definition, your father is completely opposite. He puts the blame on us as men for not being successful. Especially how he goes against being a "beta male" (lack of a better word). If anything he's helped a lot of people break out of the victimhood mentality.
Huh...sounds like you started to get it in the end of your comment there. You said it at the end. "If anything he's helped a lot of people break out of the victim mentality."
That was his message working on you. Don't hate him for it.
JP is telling you even if you are a "beta-male" (whatever that is) that it's not inherent. It's your thinking. It's your lifestyle. He's telling you to take responsibility, grow up and change yourself. Because your powerful. More powerful than you feel inside.
Incels don't need to prove that to everyone else with a shotgun. They need to prove it to themselves. They are the only ones who believe they are not worth anything. Tragic.
Jordan Peterson doesn't stroke your ego if your ego is hurting you. Plain fact. He changes your perception with truth and insight so you can be a better person. And sometimes that's painful.
Just take it in without judgement at first?
Maybe try that dude? You can do it. I believe in you ♥️
@@lukehamilton3518 why are you giving me some sorta peptalk 😂? I just didn't know what Incel meant haha.
@@backroadbeetle4781 It's not a peptalk, it's a discussion!
@@lukehamilton3518 You don't get to decide if you are a beta or not. You can identify as whatever you want but you are what you are. The alphas get the best girls and to be one you have to have them also think that you are one.. otherwise you are just pretty fly for a white guy.
'It's men's fault that 45% of men as opposed to 85% of women passed their genes throughout history based on DNA studies' -Theory
“You might be asking yourself why I am concerning an entire podcast on incels”.
Nope. Entirely understand why because Olivia Wilde has lost all respect due to her comments about your father.
There is simply no way she could have been more wrong. It’s indescribable how wrong she is.
anything coming from someone's short sighted resentment shouldn't come as a surprise
I'm the type that looks in all the places most people are afraid to think about let alone approach in substance.
I've come to learn the social environment in ways that allows me to identify metaphysical properties and interactions. I could tell you now, If none of us asked or said anything about particular subjects and people, we'd remain ignorant to them. When we know nothing about those we see as problematic in society, it's because we're comfortable with the situation and have nothing to address.
Its almost certain that she has never listened to him, and has not read his books.
@@diananeuman6222 We take this whole thing as a negative someone doesn't understand, but is it?
I spend a good bit of time measuring my words because I know everything said will be misunderstood and not at all absorbed the way I've intended. It never will because we all live in little bubbles/fields we call social atmosphere (fear & fair)..
This carries reoccurring echo and reflection.
In this mirror atmosphere we all speak our own Babylonian confused language believing everyone exist in the same density of thought and dimension. We don't, but our language is synchronized in a manner that creates illusion and delusion we do.
Because of this domesticated, stabilized, trained and preprogrammed society we live in, most of us aren't only confused about the world we live in, we're equally confused about who we are in it.
There actually is a term for that. It's called "not even wrong".
There are people who are voluntarily celibate too. Sometimes, a period of voluntary celibacy can be extremely helpful if you find yourself jumping from one unhealthy relationship to another. There is a lot more to life than sex, and trust me, sex is far better when you have a genuine connection with your partner.
"...sex is far better..." Why does this have to be defended? Anyway, I'm glad you've come to this belief. As I understand it, there is an actual, post-modern term for preferring a genuine connection with a sex partner, whereas it was always common, cultural knowledge in modern times.
@@paigemccormick6519 I have had many times in my life, including now where I have been celibate voluntarily. Unfortunately, today's hookup culture world and the fact that cheating has become normalized makes it difficult to date at times.
@@dannyllerenatv8635 Danny, thanks for your extended thoughts. Let us not be slaves to today's culture. Hard times for all deserve examination. I'm with you.
Celibacy may increasingly become the price many will pay for maintaining their integrity in a shallow world.
@@kristinab1078 That sadly might just be the case. Integrity, morals, and values are everything to an individual. Knowing that you let those things slip is equally as painful and in some cases, even more painful than a breakup, getting played, or someone disappointing you.
I think he's wrong about why higher status women are reporting more. It's probably because they're more likely to report, not necessarily because they are facing more intimate partner violence. Anybody with a good understanding of violent crime knows that reporting rates do not necessarily reflect rates of violent crime.
correct. they know how to use the court system.
Of course it is a hypothesis. 200 things happening at once and he just listed one of them.
Of course women are weirded out of making more then husband first time in history. Lots of men still in 1950 and don't know what to do if not providing like so called man.
@@sadhu7191 I suspect what he mentioned might not be happening at all. I hear about this higher rate of reporting and see how he explains that means a higher rate of domestic violence, and think, "Bullshit; this guy knows nothing about violent crime." There is no way that educated women, are falling for psychopaths at the rate that immature and financially insecure women are. It's just not happening. And psychopaths are leading the pack when it comes to all forms of abuse.
He’s not wrong. Your other comment below saying no women educated fall into it, tells me you are the one that knows nothing. It’s absolutely happening and a lot! It makes no difference in your education.
What strikes me about this whole situation is that sex has become this modern day Idol that everyone bows down before and worships. Its as if sex (or lack thereof)is the determining factor on whether you're happy in life or not. If you're not having sex you should be just as happy in your life as if you were, sex can't have that much control over our happiness. But so many people are immersed in self pity because they think something they need to be happy is being denied to them and when that happens a victim mentality develops and from there, bitterness takes root. And its completely unnecessary, because the truth is you dont need sex to be happy, this is a lie perpetuated in the culture through movies, books, magazines, advertising. If you're feeling unhappy in your life because you dont have a girlfriend/boyfriend and as such theres no sex, you gotta stop and think this through. You gotta realise that when you insist that without sex you'll be unhappy and with sex you'll be happy, that what you're doing here is making your self a slave to sex and another person, you're placing your happiness in the hands of another person and when you do that, disaster is sure to follow.
I suggest you read up on how necessary it is for people to feel loved.
@@butwhyyyy4870 It's actually not and if you read my comment fully you'd understand why I'm saying this. If you don't believe me, test it out for yourself. Abstain from all sexual activity, whether that's sex with another person or masturbation. Abstain from it all for 6 months. If you do that you'll see that you don't need sex "to feel loved" and you don't need it to be happy in life. You'll get along fine without it but most people never face this, they never test the notion that they need sex to be happy in life. They're afraid to do this because of the fear of feelings of loneliness that might arise, or other uncomfortable feelings. And those feelings come up for sure, at the beginning. But these are withdrawal symptoms and if you persist through the withdrawal I promise you'll come out The other side knowing that you never needed sex to feel love or to be happy. You'll come out the other side with a new found freedom in life.
@@kimberlyfink1032 That's easy for non incels to say. Now try trading places.
@@eoinMB3949 you thought of yourself as smart when you typed all that crap?, lol. He said "I suggest you read up on how necessary it is for people to FEEL LOVED.", not "I suggest you read up on how necessary it is for people to HAVE SEX", sex is not necessarily the same as feeling loved. A lack of affection(And by affection I mean physical touch, receiving gifts and words of affirmation, etc) is actually linked with depression and higher stress levels. And these effects don't just go away after some time like you're trying to suggest, they stay for as long as you lack any kind of love in your life.
@cesaradrianer Jesus said "You must love your neighbour as yourself" but he never said "And your neighbour should love you".
Think about it.
I always appreciate an interview where the interviewer allows the interviewee the room to speak, and doesn’t interrupt every minute or so in the name of “keeping the conversation moving” ❤️
100%
Max, you've captured my long-time, positive impression of MP.
heart strings, mate...the smallest violin for ye!
When talking about the need for a man to have an area of dominance, I think the deeper reality is that a man's worth and value in his own eyes is largely due to the esteem (i.e.-respect) that those he loves have for him. As a husband myself, I have a deep heartfelt desire for my wife to hold me in high esteem. Being respected is perhaps the most crucial way that men feel they are loved. Spousal abuse and violence is utterly abhorrent, but a form of spousal abuse is prevalent in our society that is not physical, but psychological. There is a powerful cultural trend of demeaning masculinity that has seeped its way into our marriages such that women are being convinced that respecting and honoring their husbands somehow takes away from their own honor and respect. The relationship becomes a zero-sum game where one partner has to be subservient to the dominant other. Submitting to, respecting, and honoring each other would be a good way forward...
Those are good points, thank you for bringing them up. If we could, as a society, get past this stupid competition between the sexes thing and realize we’re all in this together, and give love and respect to our partner, maybe everything would be a whole lot better! Partnerships are supposed to be about working together, not about power. I feel like that should be inherently obvious, you know? But apparently not…
@@Thegraylady Have a word with the ladies then my dear, they seem to be the ones calling ALL the shots with relationships. Like I have, men are checking out for good now. Any guy that's had his pants pulled down in a divorce, any guy that's been in cuffs because SHE hit him or made up some BS to get him in trouble, any guy that's prevented from seeing his kids by his bitter ex, I think they'll be inclined to agree that the only way to truly win at relationships is to not engage these harpies in the first place. 80% of divorces are filed by women, that statistic alone suggests that we men are trying to please the unpleaseable. As for women being kind and nurturing, well that that doesn't stop them from destroying families and even affecting THEIR OWN KIDS with their unrelenting obsession for MORE.
Wel spoken indeed
its not just marriage, its society in general and its created what we call simps or betas. and in reality, no woman actually wants these men, they created them to squash them down to feel better about themselves which is all around abhorrent
When Patrice O'neal was trying to figure out why he had so much pure love for his dogs, moreso than his fiancé even. He eventually arrived at the conclusion that it's because they depend on him, but don't act as if they don't. Women are fundamentally only attracted to men who they can depend on, but are relentlessly shamed out of ever admitting dependence of any kind; nevermind appreciating it. It's one of the biggest cognitive dissonances of our age.
In the ideal scenario of sexual social dynamics (evolutionarily speaking), submission should empower a womans confidence in her biggest strength; the power and intuitive wisdom to choose the correct mate for the betterment of humanity (ultimately a womans biggest power over men is submission, counter intuitive maybe; but so is yin/yang and so is life/death). Women do have more power over men, but only as long as they're not trying to be dominantly masculine... pretty ironic. But the only thing more powerful than masculine dominance is the divine feminin.
I rented a room to an incel for a couple years and he was "ok" but what is interesting is he'd make statements in conversation every so often that were presented unironically that would really surprise me.
He had exceptionally high standards for the girls he would be interested in but no standards for himself. He thought he'd be able to go to Japan and his whole situation would change despite looking like Godzilla as a fetus. It was very strange.
With your permission I would like to repeat the phrase (wherever applicable) 'looking like Godzilla as a fetus'.
😂😂😂😂
The Japanese like Godzilla he's a good lookin dude
@Lisa Fenwick look up JustPearlyThings on UA-cam she's great 👍. But those statements women act entitled to things they don't deserve and they act like victims are true statements for many women these days. Just because you may not be one of them doesn't make those statements false.
Yeah. Godzilla is the male ideal in Japan. John Lennon's son Sean by Yoko Ono definitely had the full on barbarian look as I saw him in local concert once. He was playing a very old Spanish style acoustic guitar like my old original Silvertone. So good & now gone. Must have been his dad's.
I’m glad this man is doing this type of research.
Me too :)
I’m a proud Incel and he’s clearly not spoken to single one
@@athejbaka7084 I don't get the proud bit, all I know is, the traits and behaviours that seem to heavily work in dating nowadays from what I have seen occur, usually require someone who has a mindset that by nature isn't good and doesn't care about the other person at all, despite how it would come across to other people, I have no inclination to adopt those traits, I am however completely accepting of the cons of that.
If I live a long lonely life, so be it, there are some traits that I refuse to adopt regardless.
That's my opinion anyway.
@@cagedinsane9929
Nice cope- good looking and attractive men aren’t anywhere near as evil or ill intentioned as you want to believe. Painting them as evil or somehow less virtuous than you is a defense mechanism, but it’s not true.
@@lionofallah3441 Where did I mention attractive or good looking in my response above, I am just going by what I've seen and admittedly young not exactly world experienced.
Just curious why you would specifically bring in the good looking or attractive part, make a connection to the bad traits I did mention and then insinuate that my comment was doing that.
You say nice cope, so I am going to say nice reaching.
I hope Dr Costello (to be) knows how important his research is. This was absolutely amazing and insightful. I highly enjoyed it.
I’d love to read his final thesis.
Thank you so much for this interview.
Fascinating. So refreshing to see this type of conversation coming from someone who’s actually done the research and is so considered and eloquent.
Yes this is a much needed conversation among many that are starting to happen due to modern interconnected world.
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue.
People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her.
A lot of guys have never had that.
This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that.
The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow)
Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society.
What are we seeing in the west now?
Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels.
White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes.
Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends.
White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle.
With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be toxic.
Thank you both for this conversation. What I find interesting is I have spoken with young females as well who feel like they will never be able to reach men's standards of attractiveness and do themselves not know where or how to start meeting someone they can have a meaningful relationship with. If I'm understanding correctly, the incel group felt better during covid....seems to be a state of loneliness, isolation and depression that people need help navigating through.
Your dad has helped me take practical steps and encouragement to dare to make even small positive changes in my life despite bouts of depression, do shadow work and work at changing my internal dialogue.
I adore your dad's commitment to helping people. I will always be thankful to your dad for his kindness, wisdom and insight and fully support his commitment to common sense and personal responsibility to yourself and "grow where you are planted" philosophy. It's never too late to rewrite your story. We are all in this together. Much love and thanks.
Yeah birth rate is stalled world wide first time I history economies are tanking. Men and women's mind explodes and on top of it we don't understand eachother causing fighting
Do they vaguely resemble women? If yes, then they already surpass male standards of attractiveness.
Anything that resembles a woman, be it a female dwarf, a mannequin, a female corpse etc will get more attention from men than men like Elvis or David Beckham could ever dream of getting from women.
@Seattle Rain - The question would be what men are the looking at when they decide they aren't attractive enough for? Based on studies on dating sites, most women find 80% of men to be not attractive. So the average looking girl could find the average looking guy and they would settle down and do well, but average girls are looking at the guys above their level. These guys will have short term interests but not necessary long term interests with the girls below them, which will make the girls feel unattractive and needing to do more. Dating sites and the 2 to 1 men vs women and being the new way to meet someone, it inflates the womans ego (girls get way more matches than most guys, outside the top few % of men. Its causing a vicious cycle of hurt all around except the few guys at the top getting all the action without any committment.
@@steveh5641 Hi Steve,
Interesting.
Too bad that young people seem to be unwittingly caught in the digital dating scene. It seems to be very superficial and hollow for both young woman and men alike. The thing is, that's just life my friend....there will always be people that fare better based on attractiveness. It's a story as old as time and I personally believe both sexes are aware of this universal truth, however, the blame game or stats are surely not going to solve anything. It only serves to perpetuate a self imposed lonliness that only hurts the person in perceived competition with a standard and what a dreary outlook to willingly stay in.
Call me niave but I still believe if people make an earnest effort to put their best foot forward and invest in enriching their own life and the lives of others in service, instead of dwelling in a lack in our lives they will feel better. I have found being in a giving rather than receiving attitude is really good for many things that get us down. I've seen it and experienced it myself as well. I sure do hope so anyways.
As well, we all have to accept and not take personally the fact that a relationship may not be in the cards so to speak for everyone but that does not by any means mean they are not worthy, less than or have less to offer the world whatsoever, just maybe not in the cards. Life is still good and our relationship status should not define us. Just my humble observation.
Probably a side effect of the fashion industry and gossip.
Mikhaila’s podcast is so refreshing and the kind of content I need more of. Her sincere curiosity and thoughtful questions help me to really think about the topics and not just confirm my biases unlike what I usually find entertaining. Most content I come across lately is extremely saturated with an agenda. Refreshing to come away challenged instead of just entertained or steered in a certain direction.
Becoming celibate is very hard to do at first. It's like giving up sugar. You experience withdrawals and cravings. But after 3-4 years, something changes. Your psyche/physiology adjusts and the appetite for sex becomes less and less intrusive. There's a wonderful freedom to it. You can think more clearly. You become more spiritual. And your capacity for love expands to embrace a wide field of many different kinds of people. The reason for the celibacy of Buddhist monks and Catholic priests becomes clear. Your love can embrace a whole flock rather than just a family and a few friends.
If that's the case, then why are you on this video talking about incels?
What the hell are you talking about
“After 3-4 years” 😂😂😂😂😂
I like how, somewhere between your parents and your other forms of education, you learned to face the monsters that roar in your direction so that you can take them head on. Not many have that talent anymore. Took me a minute to figure it out, too. Keep working hard and know that I support it. Thanks.
I'm Hungarian and families do get massive benefits here. Tax breaks, financial aid in various forms (childcare allowance - basically paid maternity leave for 3 years), student loan forgiveness, discounts for family cars, home purchase subsidies, loans without interest ("baby awaiting loan", for example), etc.
This still doesn't really produce the desired effect, to be honest. Our economy is in an extremely bad shape and inflation is around 30% (but in some cases it feels like things have doubled or tripled in price since 2021). Because of the family financial benefits, people who don't want 3 kids basically have no chance to buy their own home, unless they get indebted for life. Wages are extremely low even compared to wealthier countries within the EU, while living costs are almost the same. In this economy, truly responsible people are still reluctant to have kids.
Same in Poland
@@sebastianpistillo6532 dwa bratanki, I guess
what is the desired effect that isn't being produced?
@@slendercrescents yes :3😂 i hope it will get better for all of us in the future
@@happyjourneygateway more happy families and more happy kids to avoid a population decline that is bad for the Economy and society
The use of the term “pseudo-intellectual” in reference to Jordan Petersen is, for me, what I suspect a perpetually funny fart joke might be in some circles…perhaps Olivia Wilde’s circles…it would explain so much. None the less, I laugh every time I hear it. Without fail.
Olivia Wilde is a pseudo-actress. 😂
pseudo-relevant comment
They deride Thomas Sowell in similar terms. Lefties like to imagine that they have a monopoly on THE SCIENCE (TM), so they get angry when a credentialed person refutes their religion.
The Pseudo-intellectual it's like low key insult because it's stating they are INTLECTUAL in their own subject field with their own people in their own echo chamber, but the topic of that intelligence could be total bullshit made up trash like "TRUST THE SCIENCE"
Peterson doesn't' speak in echo chambers and is often disagreed with, i mean easy way to find out how fake their science is test them with the what is a woman loyalty test.
it exposes the brainwashing.
It's actual proof the other side knows nada
What a relief to hear an interview without the host screaming " But what about women's issues? What about sexual minorities? What about puppies?"
This is my second time listening to this guy in a discussion and I love the work he's doing, really interesting stuff.
I went 6 years without female contact from 24 to 30, im an introvert with bad social anxiety, depression and low self esteem with women, im different as I was in great physical shape( competetive kickboxer) I finally met a woman that accepted me for who I am , still married at 60 although if something happens , I would die alone, I never blamed women for my problems, always knew im fucked up....
Dude try being young and getting anything if your not tall goodlooking today as a young man it’s over
@@thedarkestknight8381 how come i see plenty of young men that are not good looking or tall and they still have a girl in their arm? i highly doubt they are super rich either. also, as someone who works at a nightclub i can tell you that size helps, but is not neccessary. at all.
I am on my fifth year being a single. I am 30. I work as a carpenter, no women there. I don't ask women out in public, feels very weird to me. Like you I am probably little more fit than avarage men since I played football and gone to the gym more or less my whole life. Most of my friends either have families, moved far away or stuck in addiction. So meeting peeople in a bar, means I have to go alone, just like Jeffrey Dahmer :). I am also a Introvert, who likes to read dostojevski, and sing and play guitar by my own. It's pretty funny, I am a handy man, swedish(high beuty standars, according to many), tall, fit, i got some abs goin xD, plays guitar and sings and still single. I am probably one of those who take a retard picture too close to my face on tinder. I have 1 picture. I don't wanna brag about my car, or my abs on pictures. I feel it is incredible narcisstic to take photos on your self from different angles. There you go! I lost my social circel of women a few years after school and here i am wishing to be raped, lol.
I’m also 30, fit, read Dostoyevsky and nice… Still single for the past 7 years & all my life before that. I don’t blame anyone or stay mad that I’ve been rejected by guys who are way below my ”league”. And I’ve never went after any chads that’s for sure.. quite the opposite. 😂 Still not much luck. So, I may be looking for love & some guys just sex, but at the end of the day none of our needs are being met. Relationships are unfortunately harder & harder for anyone to find or maintain.
@@thedarkestknight8381 you could b a 6 foot tall it doesn’t matter some man are just not a catch just as some man forever bad at financial
This was much more interesting than I thought. Good on you for highlighting this, society needs healthier discussion around incels.
There is no healthy discussion around incels, they just need to disappear.
Paul Joseph Watson. Video today. Similar topic. Simpocalypse.
I think we should address incels by challenging males in their senior year of high school to produce a female to tell government agents, “Yes, I have had sex with him. See, his life MATTERS.” All high school senior males who fail to accomplish this task should be either FORCED INTO THE MILITARY, or EXECUTED UPON HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION!!
I think that will drop the amount of incel-induced violence against women, AND make life a whole lot better for women in general, by increasing the chances of the only guys they run into being ones they will either want to fuck, or feel safe around.
Besides, women can’t say that they are going to MISS these guys, or that they NEED them around in their lives or even in their companies. We all know that the only men who deserve to be in this world are the ones who women actually WANT to fuck, because straight women always want to be a part of fuck-boys’ harems and shit.
Who’s with me on this?
I think most people are more comfortable with the old standard "Women don't owe men sex", "Incels are losers for not receiving what women refuse to give them" dynamic. It's alot more comfortable and easier to digest. And it ends the conversation rather early.
Lots of women are going to be Incels. Female version. Incelette. Black Pigeon Speaks has a video. Called Left Over Women. These are women who wait till they are old to find a man. Over 35. Then they are too old to have babies. After 40 no one wants them. What do you call a man no woman wants to have sex with? Incels. What is a 40 year old woman? Incelette.
As always, Michaila, this program is both educational and thought provoking!
🤔 the irony of two beautiful married people discussing the mind of the incel. I got 1 question. How can you two define incels ? When neither of you have lived through it. You have no idea how it feels when nobody wants you. When laughter and insults follow u down the hallway. Then the realization of adulthood hits u like a transport truck. 40 more years of high-school . This kind of stress could certainly motivate a school shooter. 💯
My only thing that I would like to add is, don't expect anyone to change just because you changed. The reason for your self improvement should be because you want to and not just because you want to attract the opposite sex. Its not a guarantee that you would change anyone's mind. You can only control yourself and what you expect of yourself.
cope, you self improve to get attention from the opposite sex, u can delude yourself into thinking that you self improve for yourself all you want.
@@randomguy13863 everybody copes. If you're bored, you cope with music/TV. If you feel inadequate with your body, you cope with working out. If you feel lonely, you cope by surrounding yourself with others. If you lack a belief system and feel empty or senseless, you cope with another worldview/belief system that makes you feel better. Many men of history got a long just fine wo/ the need to impress the opp. sex.
@@ImTheSaiki no that's why there are wars and violence in the world
It's bullshit man.
The comparison between Mikaila’s experience with auto-immune support groups and the Incel subculture highlights how group think can be so toxic.
It’s interesting how the more people demand “safe spaces” the more cruel those same people can be. If you are questioning the dominant narrative out of a sincere interest to learn or grow or heal (I.e., not a troll) and get summarily shut down, then find a door or window and get the hell out. That is not a healthy place to be.
I have an autoimmune (myasthenia gravis) and never met such an empathic support group.
@@lunalu552 good for you. Hoping you have all the support you require. 💕
It's easy to compare and conclude when you assume what the other person or groups capability is and based on popular assumptions you're not proving incels to be cruel or anything whatever you're trying to conclude them as but instead repeating the already existing opinions about incels of people who know nothing about it.
@@s8n516 say whaaat. Not even passing judgment on incels, Only commenting about support groups overall from personal experience.
What you say about social media groups at 38 mins is interesting. When I was first diagnosed as having Asperger's as an adult, I was in a few Autism groups to find solidarity and information. I'm no longer in as many and don't participate as much precisely for that reason; the identifying with victimhood. There seems to be a lot of validating limitations and getting mad at anyone who suggests we can do more. It's like validating the real challenges of autism, then can become a determination to be defined and limited by them in less helpful ways. For me meditating and changing my diet and lifestyle helped me shed a lot of the co-morbidities like ocd, insomnia, anxiety and such. I'm still autistic, but have reached levels of functioning some autistic people say are impossible. And of course there are different levels that are achievable depending on the level of challenge, but I feel it's a mistake to get stuck in your current situation as set in stone for anyone.
Brilliant! We all have limitations but more importantly we all have been blessed with gifts. You find what yours are and go with it. We are all important and all types are needed. I have always been told i am too sensitive, as if being a caring person is wrong. I always felt bad about it and tried to change it but i could not, it just felt wrong. One day i read about a study that was done with monkeys in the wild. They took the sensitive monkeys away from the group to see what would happen to the group. When they went back to see they were shocked to see the entire group of monkeys were dead. Turns out those sensitive monkeys were the ones to warm the group of incoming danger. See, we are all important and needed and don't believe in the limitations others put on you. They don't know what you are capable of!
Fantastic job! Spread the message of diet - a real game changer to improving mental health issues
@@SunnyCarnivore exactly. We're all meant to be different and have different roles that benefit the whole. It's odd that we expect everyone to be the same.
I agree. I think it's important to recognize individual strengths and essential skills early in childhood and young adulthood and develop those as much as possible.
I love you and your dad, and understand that you both try to help people, not cater to their phobia's, but try to help them solve their problems.
The term "incel" has developed a lot of negative connotations, but it never started that way. I know the term is usually male specific but it applies to both sexes. I believe they use the term femcel these days.
A lot of incels are single average looking bachelors in their late 20's or early 30's with a decent career and own house. They live a generic lonely life. Not some 40 year old living in his mom's basement. They're not necessarily bitter or have a vendetta against women and are actively looking, they just don't want to "pay" for sex.
Due to the stigma associated with the word, it's not really fair to place everyone in the same category. In fact it can be demoralising as one is always trying to improve themselves but fails constantly.
I think people need to take a step back and accept that not everyone will be blessed in all aspects of their life and just focus on things they can change, rather than "if you do this, you will get laid" mentality.
When you get hundreds of matches on online dating you can't really take the term femcel seriously
@@vivienneb6199 Why would these guys consider a family when they can't even get laid?
@@plvsvltra9892 They do exist, mostly below average looking women and extremely tall women are the one's that struggle.
Are you sure it never started that way? I kind of remember first seeing the term pop out of the mainstream media in response to the side-effects of third wave feminism: "The new incel movement is the cause of x, not the backlash from new age feminism". It even sounds like it was built to be decisive using the standard mislabeling tactics we see elsewhere. You can attack someone who is voluntarily celibate by calling them an incel, or just label someone an incel who isn't even celibate. Or perhaps the nature of the term is going to allow for it to be divisive no matter what it was named, I really just assumed so due to where I believed to be the origin
@@chasmurphy1227 Like all terms, I never saw it negatively when I originally heard it (and looked up what it meant).
To me it only seemed logical that not everyone was "f**king" and didn't look further into it.
Later on I saw it being used commonly as an insult. Which is a bit of a farce - "If you're not getting laid you're worthless". That's literally the message being sent.
I don't believe that for a second, but I agree that it's current definition probably did originate from mainstream feminism to look for ways to ridicule males. Etc
I’ve lived in Tokyo for years, there are plenty of so called “incels”.
But no one try’s to turn it into an identity. They just get on with their lives & take interest in other things like anime or model building. Why can’t we do the same?
Trying to avoid societal decline…Japan is aging very quickly.
@@darbyheavey406 Japanese society is extremely resilient, after all no other country has had 2 atomic bombs dropped on them.
Japan is dystopia
Have you heard of hikikimori?
Once we blackpill China and Japan it's over for the normies.
because that road leads to decreased reproduction and the downward spiral of society and invasion by china
Rich, fascinating and tasteful episode. Always backing your father and you Mikhaila, you guys speak sense. Reassuring to know an intelligent man (with a beautiful voice) speaks with such grace and optimism despite the topic. Will endeavour to check out your research William! You guys did well here x
One of my favorite parts of the interview is at 13:08 when he mentioned, "I sort of sound like your father". You could tell he geniunely enjoys JBP and is a fan, and why wouldn't he be? Great work all around on this one.
I love you so much dear. You dad must be very proud of you. The relationship you seem to have with your dad reminds me very much of the one I have with my own dad. I find your content very valuable. Thank you for putting yourself out there!
-Gracie-
What Connor McGregor does to people that refuse to drink Proper 12 whiskey is violence. Saying a hurtful word in the heat of an argument is not violence. A grown man spending money out of a shared account with his wife is not violence. A grown man refusing to demur to his wife is not violence. There is plenty of real violence in this world without mislabeling non-compliance as violence.
@@blahblahblah4544Nobody answers to the jewish sky daddy anymore. His teeth are pulled.
@@blahblahblah4544
Blah blah blah.
@@sarahrobertson634 quite a peculiar way to talk to someone. Why do you hate on others beliefs? Considering this person’s beliefs, Id like to point out the blatant illogical thinking to generalize nobody answers to Sky Daddy, anymore. Considering clearly, theres atleast 1 out there. The odds are that you are not a maths major. Do You know why not everyone can be burried in a grave yard?
@@sarahrobertson634 everybody answers to God. Just because you refuse to believe does not make it not true. In fact wait till you die and you meet God and get judged. You'll be regretting the day you mocked him.
Get on your knees, repent for your sins ask God to reveal himself. Who is the fool? Aethiests like yourself failing to see the myriad of signs that God exists including the bible which we are the only religion in the world with the oldest dead sea scrolls. Proof that Gods word was preserved through men. The bible has lots of scientific facts that have been proven .
Please don't do the usual aethiest thing where you quote the OLD TESTAMENT. Yes it had murder and rape. But we're in 2022 we still have murder and rape what's any different.
We don't justify the old testament as a way to live by its just a historical scientific reference of what happened in those times.
The new testament is what we wish to imitate. Quote that if you want to actually debate a Christian.
Mocking him calling him a sky daddy only serves you. It helps you to live with your choices denying God. In your world if you minimise and mock him belittle him he will lose his power and authenticity.
But that is not how God works. He believes strongly in free will. He will give you ample opportunity to repent until one day you're driving home and a truck hits you and you're dead.
Youll have all the chances in the world to repent till you don't.
Mocking will not charge your future.
Repent get saved.
@@sarahrobertson634 ahh yes because the way society’s going after leaving religion behind is totally progressive! You know, with even more objectification and exploitation of women and porn eating up people’s brains. Totally healthy, just shows you that people just never need a moral guidance because we’re just so good. /s
The problem is that less attractive people (of both sexes) are marginalised in every way. They earn less on average and the halo effect causes better looking people to be assumed to be better people.
Bullshit.
Disagree
hello! I'm actually typing this with tears of joy because your channel has truly changed my life forever. two months ago i saw one of those advertising reviews about crypto trading and i was in desperate need of money so i risked some of what little i had and gave it a go and since then its been an abundance of financial benefits. I really don't believe these ads but I was really desperate and as the Lord may have said I was lucky enough to find a legit one
you really believed in these bots, that's too risky
his name is John Joseph
Instagram
john joseph sabatier
You're welcome, in fact, I promised myself to come and give my testimony here for any sensible person to benefit from. If you already work with him, please can I get a like
37:30 Just when I thought I couldn’t love your Dad any more than I already do. We’re with you, Dr. Peterson and Mikhaila. And I know your Mum has a burden on her heart too.
@@vivienneb6199 you wouldn't understand
@@vivienneb6199 that which is above
Maybe being the king of incels is a good thing. He's helped incel ass
Jordan Peterson has absolutely nothing to do with being an incel .I have no idea why someone would say he was we need more men like Jordan it would be a better world having more people like him that actually used their damn brains and showed some common sense. And I don't consider him right wing not even close...its insane what is considered far right these days especially how radicalized the left is now.
It has actually become really common for women to be interested in video games. My wife actually said that one of the reasons she was interested in me is because I like to play them; she's arguably more of a gamer than I am.
This is definitely a younger generation thing.
The first video games were played by women, women play more games than men according to a study.
Hi, 34 year old lesbian here. Have dated around a lot. Not an incel. Even if I was a straight man I would like Jordan Peterson. Stupid to call his community incels.
Just going in to see your father now in Manchester 😃😃❤️
So jealous mate. Enjoy 😊
Thank you very much for this episode Mikhaila.
Not pitiful, but healthy and serious discussion with genuine concern for uplifting young men will go a long way and set a positive tone for future discussions.
I commend you and William for this episode.
I have a new appreciation for all therapists and counselors after watching this. There are limitations and sometimes spiritual coaches can help also. It’s a reminder that there are people who have it so much worse than me. It shatters my whole worldview and puts my problems into context. The call to adventure is strong today.
"The call to adventure is strong today". I don't know why, but that line really spoke to me in an encouraging way. Thank you :)
Kip: "That's what I'm talking about." Great comment tho.
I've never been an incel, but I have discovered the freedom of removing the desire for beautiful women. I think men are much more content and down to earth, it's truly revealed when become ok with being alone. Ironically, once achieving this, women seem to fall into one's life.
This is such a great outlook to have!
I might add that from my own pov as a woman, I would much prefer to wait to devote myself to a man who isn't always "hunting" and sizing me and other women up, but instead is just living a responsible, honourable and productive life while maintaining an overall outlook of gratitude in general.
There is something very appealing and reassuring about a man who isn't constantly on the lookout for potential sex or even a real partner (though he may desire it), but is instead spending his energy being an asset to his existing family, friends, and community without ulterior motives or resentment.
That's the kind of solid human being that is most attractive (once you get to know them) to any sane female person.
Just my opinion, but I know there are many others who would agree.
@John GriggYep, exactly.
@John Grigg Although the pedestal is very flattering and most women let themselves fall into some version of that kind of relationship at some point thier lives...it's an exhausting and unrealistic thing to maintain on a long enough timeline.
Being on a pedestal eventually starts to feel lonely too. In order for there to be a pedestal, there has to be some sort of distance between you and your partner.
There is a barrier between you and your partner loving you despite your less-than-sexy/cute human flaws in order to maintain the illusion of being an object "worthy" of "worship". No one really ever wins in that sort of relationship in the end, and there is usually a destructive lack of accountability in that scenario too.
Admiration and respect is necessary, but only as long as it comes from a realistic perspective of the other person, and not from some fantasy, or from some unhealthy co-dependent dysfunction.
@John Grigg 😂
There is no reference at all here to love. Love is a far higher thing than sex. I believe that what we are ultimately after is love, not just sex and validation
They go hand in hand
This debauched society is destined to fall.
Men aren't interested in love, they was sex with as many different women as possible.
"Involuntary celibate?" Wow. I thought an incel was some kind of undercover, traitorous, treacherous spy lolol
Me too! It sounds like someone important and dangerous! Apparently, it just a term for pathetic men who can't get laid. 🤣
"Commander, they've breached the outer walls."
"Very well then. *DEPLOY THE SLEEPER INCELLS*
😂😂😂
@@Zayindjejfj It's actually just "sleeper cells." I bet that's where we got this idea from though! 😂
No thats what a male Feminist is
In 2019/2020, I finished reading '12 Rules For Life,' and decided shortly thereafter, with the help of Jordan Peterson's lectures, that I needed to leave this relationship with a woman whom was not right for me at all (long, awful story). Dr Peterson's work was the tool for me to open my eyes to myself and the situations I had put myself in. Since then, I have been focused on simply becoming the best man and partner I can be.
My biggest problem right now is that I just turned 26 a couple of months ago, and, whilst I know I am still young, I know I am not getting any younger. I am a creative/musician/writer/spiritual/philosophical type whom has always been more interested in entrepreneurship and starting business. At the end of the day, and even in the beginning, I understand everything is on me. That's what karma is: your doing.
Damn you sound like the male version of me
Then study business management. I helps.
Would you mind elaborating on the relationship you had w your significant other? And what you discovered? Just curious, not trying to be offensive.
@@goodyangie1 No problem.
Long story short, I was with this woman for about six months. I knew things were wrong from the beginning, but I chose willful blindness for two reasons: 1) to give her the benefit of the doubt bc she was in a truly awful situation; and 2) because I was simply infatuated. Without getting into the details, she was on drugs and unfaithful. She also gaslit me, allowing me to go through therapy bc I thought I was going insane with paranoia. Nope, I was right. More so, my gut instinct was right. It was listening to some hours of Jordan Peterson that I realized I had allowed myself to be willfully blind in a relationship with someone whom possessed psychopathic traits.
I hope she is doing better now, but kicking her out of my life was necessary both for my development and well-being.
@@TheTylerGeissler Wow! glad to hear your life cleared up afterwards!
I watched an interview about the overwhelming number of young men struggling. They asked the question of what can be done and the man answered, almost giddy, public works. In my head all I could about was the gulag archipelago.
Mikhaila's face when she is trying to compute how it is possible for a single woman to have 69 kids 😅It surprised me as well. How a woman was able to physically survive 69 child births is mind boggling.
Multiple births explains all
Valentina (the referenced woman) had 4 sets of of quadruplets 7 sets of triplets, and 16 sets of twins. No singles.
Im a 38 yr old male with autism, and have been alone for 13 years now. I have to strongly agree with his statement that the worst thing you can say to an incel is "you don't look so bad" or "you can get a girl". Nothing bothers me more. That being said, I have become rather content with dying alone.
mate I am 38 and an incel too are you no incels.is?
I’m only a bit younger and while I am in a relationship, I also know that I will die alone. I just don’t think it’s something bad. Maybe because all my relatives died alone. We never made it in time. You’ll never be truly alone, there will always be someone by your side.
I had a great uncle who was autistic. He never married or had kids, but all of us in the family really loved him and miss him. If you really are content I think that’s great. Just remember that life (this whole human existence thing) is about living not about dying.
Have you attempted various forms of trauma therapy?
I agree. I am 40 yr old autistic female. It's not about looks I look 27 yrs old and workout. I don't like it when people ask me how I am single.
Computer games are an apex Art form. There are certainly bad ones, mind numbing ones, but the best ones combine visual art, music, story telling, and allow you to interact with it.
although women do often enjoy more story driven or aesthetically oriented games, computer games qua competition are overwhelmingly a male interest.
I didn't know what an incel was till today. I'm an incel I run my own business. My whole community recognizes me. I've been on every dating site. Concerts bars funerals weddings 300 plus cold approaches. Well over 90000 swipes never got a match.
Society is on a downfall in the west. It's not you man. My advice, visit Japan. I went and women were all over me. I'm 6ft, 8 of 10 looking and funny, I still had trouble dating in my 20s. Go east for love man.
That’s some extreme LDARfueI if that’s you in the pfp & you’re being honest.
You need to check your OLD accs to see of they’re bIackIisted bc that couId a Iegit probIem.
As for interpersonal violence increasing, it can work both ways but in the old days when people lived with and around their extended families, there were severe consequences meted out by the other men and women who had a vested interest in keeping the peace and not allowing their family member to be abused.
Damn right. My bud’s sister’s boyfriend just like cheated on her and we wanted blood 😅
Not always.
@@michaelmisczuk1188 That's right, not always. In some cases 'keeping the peace' meant the opposite of 'not allowing their member to be abused'.
There was also alot of shame upon those women who slept with multiple men or who broke marriage. In worst cases, those women were exiled or punished by death.
Traditionally, 'keeping the peace' meant appeasing abusers and silencing victims. Ffs
14:20. We are now experiencing modern day harems. Women would rather share a man at the top, essentially being used for nothing more than sex, than get married to an average man.
If you read this comment, then now maybe you understand why there are so many women crying their eyes out on ticktock videos. Talking about how no men today want to get married. Men do want to get married. But average women refuse to settle for average men. Well, around 50% of them anyways. It's *women* today that don't want to get married. Not men.
@@jaythenihilist4689 Hear Hear
Very informative MP! Love that you let him finish his thoughts and had a natural dialogue. I find many female interviewers are jumping in to quick with unrelated questions. Maybe it’s because I watch your Dad being interviewed and they never seem to actually be listening to him … yet when Joe, Russel, Theo, Dave interview him - we get to hear his full thought.
Aan and women talk to try to under men and women which will never happen. Do I understand women? Idk
women have a hard time listening to men, its common
I was thinking exactly that, never watched her before but she eclipses many male and female podcasters. Mikhalia maintains a solid attentive presence good work.
Many thanks for this discourse and discussion. Comparing oneself with others, as one perceives them, can certainly trigger a sense of life being unkind to oneself in particular, on top of whatever other sorrow one is experiencing. Articles on why suicides are more common in richer neighbourhoods give some insight into this phenomenon… Quoting from a 2012 article in Time: “Daniel Wilson, senior economist at the San Francisco Fed, and two co-authors found that for two individuals with the same income but living in two different counties, the one who lives in the county with a higher average income is 4.5% more likely to commit suicide. At first it might seem surprising, but it begins to make sense when you think about how we tend to compare ourselves to those around us. You might assume that suicide rates would be elevated in lower-income neighborhoods and counties, and the study’s authors do point to findings that higher income generally lowers suicide risk. For example, an individual with family income less than $10,000 (in 1990 dollars) is 50% more likely to commit suicide than an individual with income above $60,000. The twist comes when you look at low income individuals who live in high income areas. According to the study, they face greater suicide risk than those living in low-income areas. The study’s authors call it a ‘behavioral response to unfavorable interpersonal income comparisons.’”
Yes, compete against yourself. Strive for continual improvement. Fall down seven, get up eight. Being alone is better than being lonely. When you love yourself, you'll attract the right person, if that's right for you.
I feel like categorizing them as having a "victim complex" in this scientific tone is just going to further alienate them. These people are isolated. They don't have friends. Usually they don't have anyone but their parents. The last thing they need is people telling them to stop whining. They need a friend or family member in their life to take them to a baseball game or something.
I think they need more than just a baseball game. They need genuine therapy for the ridiculous mindset they're stuck in.
@@fairlyenjoyable Yes therapy to realise their self loathing and hatred is merely a projection of how they horribly they feel about themselves and feeling ostracised and alone.
@@thearodriguez5251 You can be really ugly and that is okay. And you can even be an involuntarily celibate person I think thats okay too. We should stop shaming people that are like that because it reinforces the radicalization problem.
I suspect it's a symptom of over nurturing by one or both parents such that they've never had to learn socialization to achieve externally sourced gratification.
They’d hate you saying that too. ‘Baseball won’t fix my life!’ some people can’t be reached, IF they refuse to be helped, and like having their confirmation bias fed and watered continuously, like their echo chambers online, do. It’s a vicious circle, like a kind of sink hole. some can be stopped from swirling away down the plug hole, but many are in so deep, it seems impossible to reach them. They need to reach up too, halfway
I watched a video with him this morning about this. He's very knowledgeable and very articulate on the subject.
Not really. He is smart compared to you which is not saying much.
@@martinzarathustra8604 oh yea? Sounds like this might be a touchy subject for you. Have a good night!
Unessecarry attack Martin, says more about you than her
That's because he's one of them, despite being in denial about it by paying a woman to be his wife
This is the 3rd podcast I've watched with William Costello. Topic is insanely interesting and hits pretty close to home even though I'm a bit out of the age range that william described being 27 years old. I really enjoy this topic because It's almost a community that is so easily accessible to young guys and it makes it much easier to sink into instead of doing the hard earned labor of taking better care of yourself and working on making yourself a better candidate for friendship, relationships or a more sought after person in the world in general. It's a very easy thing to fall into and can actually see how I might've been involved somewhat in a type of incel thinking in my early to mid twenties which is something I'm really trying to rectify
Another point to add is that a lot of people in society and including my self at times have described men who try to seek status as actually tyrants when infact that isnt usually the case. I've found hard to distinguish as well in my own life when I'm acting out of tyranny and when I'm actually acting in more accordance with who I am as an individual.
Youre right Evan and I wish you the best, I think you will be very successful because you are self aware. I think a lot of women simply want men that are clean, orderly and mentally stable. I mean clean in body and health. Small things- like if you have a beard, shave cleanly up to the beard line, its the male equivalent of makeup. By orderly I mean want Jordan means, clean your room, clean up your life, keep an ordered lifestyle. Have a job or two even if it means volunteering because you cant find a job yet. I am not directing this at you Evan, I just meant young men in general who wonder what women want
There is heard labor for your face
@@renamed304 Very interesting name you have there haha. But thanks a lot for your reply. I appreciate the feedback and comments and think you touched on a few very important things. The reality of woman settling however in todays day in age is also troubling and it's tough for guys to get going because I think there's a lot against us. There is however a lot of people for guys improving their lives so
I think the best thing anyone can do who wants to have successful close, interpersonal relationships, is to work on improving their emotional intelligence. Learn to take accountability and actively listen. As your EQ improves, you will become much happier and more successful in all of your relationships.
"What do incels look like?" "Ehhh I don't wanna go around callin these dudes ugly..."
The guy looks incel
My wife is first of all AWESOME for 26 years of marriage. Secondly, she is Vietnamese. I noted that their culture sings and talks A lot about food. We in America sing about status and sex. I wonder if this is more of a consequence of wealth? We are not starving, so our focus is more about sex.
Jbw
💯
@@harrisn3693 Blackpill truth strikes again 😂
Brootal you had to settle for a ethnic Becky
@@athejbaka7084 your comment is ick
With the issues of young vikings. I read a romantic historic novel that spoke about young men sailing abroad to find wives and it was a deadly voyage, but many young men wanted to make that voyage so they could find a wife. So the Viking thing has been cleared for me because it never made sense.
Not historically accurate.
By find wives you mean rape and pillage right?
@@sarahrobertson634 : Says who?
@@sarahrobertson634 How do you know?
May as well replace the actual human being with a goat in this narrative because that seems like the disgusting total worth of women when described like this
MP's insightful commentary: it's like, really cool.
Never heard of this dude until a few weeks ago but he's one of my favourite people to listen to atm. Dude should write a book.
I decided to learn a language and went out of my country (the US) and married a foreign woman. I just couldn't deal with US women and their expectations. Breaking out of the box can be hugely important.
Women: You're perfect the way you are, its not you who should change but the world.
Men: Work hard, look good, make a lot of money, be kind, be strong and do all these other things for other people and maybe we will treat you as a human being if youre lucky but dont excpect anything in return incel.
@@monikagolab8892 the point is, Women get partners far more easily than men, while men have to go through tons of trial and error just to get into an intimate relationship.
@@monikagolab8892 I tought we were striving for a more equal society? Or do you agree women should be subservient to men again? I see women whining about being opressed all the time when theyve never been more privileged than now. Can you really not see the double standards?
@@monikagolab8892 It’s quite contradictory to cry for equal pay and women quotas yet wouldn’t date a guy that earns a similar amount to you.
@@monikagolab8892 You can make your own decisions, but don’t be surprised if there are people out there that might say “is that demanding much for your situation”? The various dating profiles with laundry list of demands and the “Average at Best” video are good examples of this entitlement.
@@monikagolab8892 I’m not mad at anyone for anything. I just want to be loved like everyone else.
Hi Mikhaila. You said one thing that made my ears perk up. I really wanted you to expand on it but, alas, you didn't.
It was about when you were in the autoimmune forums. You mentioned that if anyone mentioned lifestyle or diet you weren't prepared to consider that. You were almost offended. That sounds normal to me. You need to go through that period of grief. The "woe is me" stage where you want a savior to come along with a magic pill and save you.
I'm involved in narcissistic recovery forums. I'm past the stage where I want to complain. I'm at the fix it stage. Taking accountability and responsibility for my actions. I can no longer be manipulated. I now captain my own ship. But so many are in the rumination stage so that they don't want to or can't take control of their recovery.
What was the turning point for you that you took control and actually considered diet when that was so repulsive to you? If I could help people out of that "Woe is me" state, actual healing could occur. Self-responsibility/self-accountability could raise people from victim status to having control over their lives. I would love to hear what allowed you to change from victim to consider paths to healing?
researchers consistently fail to address the magnitude of this issue.
People ultimately need love and validation. When a man doesn't matter to a woman, when she doesn't gaze at him with a loving smile, tell him she wants him/needs him, that he matters to her.
A lot of guys have never had that.
This will cause disillusionment/isolation/soul sadness and mental health issues in men. No amount of material things, por* will be able to replace that.
The problem in the west is 2 fold. Incels can't get a woman and the ones that do get one, end up in divorce/breaking up or being cheated on and losing more than the lady. So they swear off relationships and end up lonely all the same. (Mgtow)
Both have the effect of creating lonely, angry, atomised ppl and broken society with plummeting birth rates. And can spell the end of that society.
What are we seeing in the west now?
Falling sperm counts, falling testosterone levels, births, marriage, and a rapidly ageing society, with catastrophic debt levels.
White ppl used to have close family bonds but now they no longer keep ties with family and send old ppl to homes.
Jobs for life are a thing of the past, from where they used to form friends.
White ppl lost their matchmaking culture and used to marry form within their own tried and tested social circle.
With all that now gone, internet dating and cold approaching/PUA random women that u know nothing about is the way. Which can be toxic.
This was FANTASTIC. He was a really fun guest.
Step it up sara
I love that you make these videos on this type of subject! I suspect that the motive behind this is to ultimately help people connect with a partner(s) in contrast to this huge problem we have of lonely people (loosely put)
I think people dont understand the amount of horrendous treatment that pushes men to become incel from family members to dayd to day interactions
Specifically speaking of the base definition of involuntary celibate, then I would agree for myself. Do I expect it? No. Never have have. Do I feel entitled to it? Absolutely not. When searching for a woman to be with, I've always wanted to establish the relationship first and foremost. Currently 32 years old, I have had a few prospects over the last few years but holy cow. What a mess the dating world is, where I live anyway. So, I've basically chosen to just forego finding someone and just focus on myself. Men have a really hard time just saying they're a virgin without getting ridiculed about it. I, myself, am proud that I still am because it means I haven't found the right person to share, what I believe, is a really special moment. I suppose I'm a hopeless romantic. I'd rather have love. Whether or not it involves sex. We have hands for a reason. Just sayin' lol.
Not that you asked for my advice, but I'm pretending that you are my younger self. "Go east young man, go east". I found my wife in Nigeria 7 years ago and couldn't be happier.
@@abboberg Lol. I'm not looking for a girlfriend or wife right now. Tried that, no thanks. This is me time lol. I honestly don't care if it's me time for the rest of my life either. I was merely stating that it wasn't for lack of trying to find a meaningful relationship that I've not been in one. But it doesn't bother me one bit.
@@thealphastrain101 Fair enough. But I will say this one more thing. My wife used to work in a nursing home, and a significant portion of those patients had zero visitors. My wife was the only bright light in their day. She was a noob and wasn't jaded like the other staff that had been there for years, changing diapers. My wife tells me that a man has no shelf life, but when he gets in his 70s and is still alone, that's when he feels the burn. I would have felt the burn in my 60s due to my health issues, but I have a wife to take care of me when I need her.
@@abboberg Yeah, I get that, but on the other hand those are likely the people who are bothered by being alone. Were you bothered being alone? I'm not. I prefer solidarity. I hate being around people and I hate meeting new people. I still have family and that's all that matters really.
@@thealphastrain101 Some people outlive their family and end up in nursing homes. Then there's not having kids or being estranged from them. You may be one of the lucky ones that either may not be alone or never feel the burn.
Most incels just want to game all day, watch anime all night and maybe ruminate about some egirl. They're not out there oppressing women. 😅
Lol true though. They think they deserve the hot egirls on twitch.
Yet they are not brad pitt. Pahaha
@@StarPanda7 no they don't, they're just disgusted by the high body count, used up modern woman.
@@StarPanda7 Men typically favour women slightly above average in looks, and that's cross culturally "girl next door" etc. Women who are in the higher looks categories are just the spoils of war "Trophy wives" .9/10 and above women have much harder lives than average women they just have more money luxury and decadent experiences. Women favour those experiences over the genuine and abundant love lives of 6-8/10 women who get considerably more actual care and day to day respect. How many 6-8/10 women ask there partner to get surgery to climb the ranks of men and bolster themselves? Allot, and 80% of males don't want the surgical multination to occur. Y'all have fucked priorities just as much as we do.
I am sick of the labels we assign to people's names. A 'Karen'. A 'Chad'. There are real people out there with these lovely names, but are being shamed and even bullied for having them
the anti white agenda
Men and women must stop labelling each other.
I've known three women by the name of Karen...all of them wonderful people. I've always thought it unfortunate that they have to live with the labeling that is attached to their name.
@Kristina B So true! All the Karens I know are great!
I know 2 Karen’s and they are both so sweet.
Bad logic being used by people to describe someone is growing by the day. "He works with lost men, therefore he is the king of incels." This is also the consequence of reacting instead of actively listening.
The van attack started just outside of our office. It was a horribly frightening day. I still haven’t walked down Yonge Street and thinking back to that day, it still brings tears to my eyes.
The fact is that both men and women are devoid of love and commitment. Love is a gift you give to someone whether they deserve it or not. If someone wants to be with you because of your looks, your wealth, your social status, your talents, your intelligence, etc, etc. then they don't really love you. They are just taking advantage of you. The fact is that these things are ephemeral and do not last. So when you no longer possess them then the person who wanted you for them will leave you.
Proverbs 19 says:
Wealth attracts many friends,
but even the closest friend of the poor person deserts them.
Many curry favor with a ruler,
and everyone is the friend of one who gives gifts.
The poor are shunned by all their relatives-
how much more do their friends avoid them!
Though the poor pursue them with pleading,
they are nowhere to be found.
What a person desires is unfailing love;
better to be poor than a liar.
YES. I’ve been pursued because of many things before - my status, my beauty, my connections. None of it meant anything to me at all. The one man I remember and still think about after the hundreds of pursuers I’ve had was the one I loved because of WHO he was. He wasn’t overly “hot” or the most ambitious or the highest status man. He was, however, one of the kindest and most smart and charming people I have ever met. I am so disinterested with modern dating because our culture values power+status+sexiness over content of character. But all that flashiness fades over time, and people who were chasing it will realize they were chasing an illusion.
@@vivianphillips768 I'm glad you can relate. Although I would also put content of character in my list of attributes that people love you for. The moment you are not as kind or happy people will leave you too. True love doesn't take advantage of anything someone has.
@@vivianphillips768 "He wasn’t overly “hot” or the most ambitious or the highest status man". How was he in terms of status and looks compared to you?
Very good interview overall. I was disappointed to hear the superficial nature of the speculations about the cause of increased reports of violence in relationships where the women begin to gain higher status than their partner. I have not heard of any reports that credibly analyze the underlying causes. We can also speculate that hypergamy could fuel resentment in the rising status partner, and they might start making up incidents or lashing out themselves verbally or physically at their partner as a prelude to breaking up. Speculation is useful but it can be easily misleading if there is no attempt at keeping it balanced.
I think you have good objections to this data. Educated women are probably more likely to use the court system to beat down their ex-es. Because there is no real proof required to charge somebody with violent behavior. She can only use her words, make accusations and that is it. Because at this moment there is no real punishment for false accusations. As long as there is no consequence for lying, abusers will take advantage of that. And smart women are pretty good at using loopholes like this to their advantage. Just because they are educated does not mean they are moral.
What i find very strange about men feeling insecure about higher earning partners is the mindset behind it. They look at it like, she doesnt need me and could leave me so they inflict cost when they could take a more positive point of view that she doesnt need me but she chose me anyway because she likes me so I'll try to be a beneficial partner emotionally and socially.
seems to me its just made women have worse attitudes in general when they start earning money. My woman earns decent money but she is nurturing and doesnt care for money either. Finding a woman who isnt money oriented is the best bet. Feel sorry for so many who think its all about money its quite sad and pathetic really, I let them carry on because I know those type of people will be in big trouble down the line with that attitude
It’s not just women. Anyone money centric is going to be a troubled person. Maybe the difference is that there is historic and social standards for a man who is concerned about having enough resources to take care of his family and be a good leader, but that’s different than being money centric. A money centric man will burn himself out and forget what they money is for or that it has value when it’s to take care of others. Women just are less likely to be in a role where concern for money works out well. It doesn’t really work with how we think even when we’re high functioning.
In evolutionary terms, men were always the providers & the women were the caretakers. It is somewhat hardwired in men's DNA to want provide for & protect women.
Men are not insecure about this. Stop projecting your own insecurity on men. Probably upwards of 95%+ of women do NOT date down in terms of financial income. That is a fact and women that do, end up resenting those same men and break up, commit some sort of abuse against said men, or divorce, if married.
I suppose, but they surely must not be naïve about reality of the improbable positive statistics behind that relationship dynamic.
I think a recurring theme is a lot of people who don't understand this, seem to be boiling it down to men not getting sex.
Yes that might be a small part of it (sex means you're being physically accepted), but I am very confident to say that the majority of men in this situation actually would like to experience companionship, loyalty and feeling accepted by a woman.
So just telling these men to go pay for prostitution is really missing the point. On top of that, you would be paying for a physical act, and ultimately, it is kind of hollow and fake. Of course some men are happy with this, and I completely understand. But in general these men are lonely and want to be loved and desired, just like any person does (female or male). Reducing it down to sex is really confusing the discussion.
Men want to be loved and appreciated, and feel like someone has their back. (And by extension, they don't want to be cheated on, abused, misled, deceived or exploited) And I'm fairly sure these sort of expectations are common to both genders, not just women - who seem to be safer at expressing these sort of facets of what they want from a relationship as opposed to a guy that expresses wanting to feel desired and accepted, which is becoming less socially acceptable to say.
As for the topic of incel itself, the issue is multi-faceted and a tapestry of different elements.
Society, and by extension, women, seem to want men to "just get it", with regard to knowing intergender dynamics, flirting, behaving around women, knowing what they want, and knowing what THEY RESPOND to. If you don't "get it" as a guy, there's a higher likelihood that you will fall through the gaps of society with regard to sexual maturity/development. They become sexually maladjusted. Their sexual/emotional development stops and remains naive and immature. Then you discover online porn, only fans etc, which absolutely doesn't help, but initially it does, initially it's a salve for the absence of physical intimacy. At best that stuff should be complementary to a healthy sex life, at worst, it becomes a substitute. Then throw in all the cultural shifts, like modern feminism which just attempts to erode thousands of years of natural biomechanics - for women that is career first, family later. Single mothers being praised (but that son she is raising doesn't have a father role in his life, and is immediately flawed when trying to integrate into society). The sexual revolution. Dating apps/sites which removes the granular and natural act of meeting someone in person that was the norm 50+ years ago. Mobile phones which allow instant access to all the online stuff I just mentioned anywhere at anytime, which also includes a predatory effect of exploiting women's subconscious desire for always trying to find the best value of things in life (and they can easily window shop for the best thing on their phones, whether it's clothes, or men). The attack on the nuclear family and traditional gender roles. It's a massive mess.
There's more, or rather more nuance, but that's enough for now as a 44 yr old male virgin. (And no I'm not violent or misogynistic. Just defeated and dejected. Like a lot of guys, part of this is that I've been sold a false bill of goods at a young age about women via films, literature, tv, etc. And it's a very big eye opening moment when you get a better understanding of what women want, what they respond to, how they obfuscate these things, and also never admit to these things in open discourse unless they're anonymous)
Someone said somewhere about incel men probably being a bit autistic. As harsh as it sounds, I don't necessarily think this is wrong. A lot of this is about reading social cues. Of course, no one gives a flying fuck about autistic men in society. (not until they go on a murder spree). Autistic people by the way, have very interesting minds, and shouldn't be denigrated.
This is a good article to read if you TRULY want to understand the nuance of sexless men.
slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/
Like most young men that were lied to with bad advice when I was young, I believed all the crap and know full well the path that such "incels" go down. Luckily, I was born decently attractive and once I realized that... women were not a problem. What remained a problem... was seeing what made me succeed.... how shallow it was.... and just how much being a "nice" guy is completely disjoined from being successful with women.
When I was young, women were wonderful and on a pedestal. They were a prize that I was hopelessly lost if I did not achieve. Propaganda without experience will have you believe that.
With experience, I only found disillusionment. Women stopped being the wonderful goal of my life. I saw under the cover. I saw how the hotdogs were made. I was the only guy at a table of attractive women... who were all laughing about their "pathetic" boyfriends attempts to bare their souls to them. The more I saw the other side.... the more I realized that I didn't want any meaningful part of it.
The reason we have incels.... is because we lie to men... and we gaslight everyone into taking part in the lie. Women aren't wonderful. They are people... and people become more horrible when everyone has to pretend they are wonderful. As long as we all have to pretend that women are a wonderful prize that is always worth whatever she demands...... and a man's worth is based entirely upon women wanting him.... we will always have incels and they will not be the ones at fault.
The part about the table was gut wrenching.. I know exactly what you're talking about. Listening to women coworkers all say the same things. So sad.
I'm very surprised porn wasn't mentioned in any of these studies - Do no underestimate the impact of porn.. I bet this is MASSIVE and perhaps the single biggest reason that incels become incels in the first place...
Forget the fact that only 45% of men as opposed to 85% of women have reproduced throughout history. Let's blame some lewd pc content that both genders enjoy for genetically undesirable men.
It's a symptom. Looking disgusting genetically pushes you to nerdy habits like anime and gaming, to cope with your harsh reality and creeping boredom
@@SamStone1964 it's a chicken or egg situation 🤷♀️
This was a very interesting interview. The point about Incels relation to manosphere or MGTOW was important. They often get conflated but MGTOW is a rejection of women, not a pining for women. Both will be critical of modern feminism, but for different reasons. The general MGTOW architype is "I am not a slave to my sexual urges and will not compromise my goals for it," which is the opposite of the victim mentality the incel community embraces.
True, but they lump us all together because they don't care to understand. I've been married 3 times, have 2 kids and 3 grandkids and have now gone MGTOW since my late wife died in 2017. Not because I hate women or because women are impossible to find, even at my age, but because I've finally come to realize I value my peace too much. I also have a 9 year old boy to raise and he doesn't need his only living parent to be running around at night chasing women. I'm not an incel, I'm alone by choice. Voluntarily celibate. Happiest I've ever been. Should have tried this years ago. I'll let the young guys chase the women I've had my turns at bat.
Woman not being happy with their dating options is in no way comparable to a man living a life without intimacy romance and sex . let me put it this way : if you have multiple food choices your are not going to choose the food you don't like, but if you are starving for several weeks that same unappetizing meal would be the best food you ever eaten .If a woman would only have one guy be interested in her for her entire life, I don't think she would say nah he's not my type . woman that are not happy with their dating options need to wake up. there is a reason MR. high status superchad did not introduce himself into your life
Ikr, they all want Henry Cavill like-a-likes.
Another bang-up podcast, @Mikaila Peterson 👏👏👏👏 May I suggest that you bring William back and do a roundtable with you and your father. Perhaps as a Live stream. It would be your finest episode yet. Stay awesome, girl 💞💞💞💞
It is worth considering that handicapped and disabled people are objectively involuntary celibate but I do not believe they are in the same category as “incells”
If they're involuntarily celibate then why wouldn't the term incel apply? Because the word is primarily used as a shaming term?
You bring up a great point. Technically at some point most people are involuntarily celibate and that was kinda the premise of how the term first got coined back in the day for people that were lonely/single and didnt want to be. But now I see it used to describe people that are usually single and then go online and blame half the population for it even calling women "holes" and "toilets" all over social media. It's basically synonymous with Black-Pill ideology anymore.
Good point and I think the answer is yes. When JP & Costello talk about “Incells” they are referring to men who are physically and mentally capable but because of lifestyle choices and social pressures are not mating. I’m referring to men like veterans and automotive accident survivors who may even still be able to ejaculate but would not be capable of being a Viking or New World explorer as Costello said was the solution to “Incells” of the past.
Good insight and I agree any type of hate often leads to loneliness. However wouldn’t the self inflicted part be counter to the involuntary part of “Incell”
@@keanemorrissey5478 For them despising women and thinking they are less doesn't mean that they shouldn't have one. The involuntarily part comes from not being able to treat women like a second tier species and still get sex/bang-maids. So they are not celibate by voluntary choice but rather they are forced into celibacy because women are no longer forced into marriage with abusive sexist chuds. THats why most of the black-pilled and many of the red-pilled are against women in the workplace or having voting rights.
I got heavy into PUA culture in the late 2000's in London, so here is the problem is: The techniques do work!! So just like with any other human business you had all kinds of people and intentions: You had these people that would get addicted to it, that just wanted to get laid and would do anything, lie manipulate, etc to get that goal. There was zero self improvement in their mindset, it was about the lines and routines. But then there was another people who genuinely wanted to improve other men's lives and included a lot of self improvement "be that man she will desire" type approach on top of the routines. I met many men that just wanted a girlfriend, not to get laid every night. In the end for me, that is how I was able to meet my wife (15yrs together).
They don’t work if your short ugly ethnic or balding pua is literally laws of probability if it does work
@@thedarkestknight8381 it certainly works, but you will always be your own reference point, it wont bring everyone to 100, but it will make you better than without it.
I am hardcore introvert and have almost zero game. Still I get girls. Approaching girls without any expectation in mind is the key.
Excellent interview! I hope your dad is a leader of the incels. They need successful, thoughtful, independently thinking men to look up to, and to emulate. And your dad seems to fit the bill brilliantly. 🖖🏻
Your father is not the king of incels, he is the King of Intellectuals!...I feel like his apprentice when I'm reading his books or hearing his lectures. First time on your channel btw and I'm surprised you didn't have a Canadian accent! LoL
Anyone who calls JP an Incel King hasn't listened to him completely and in context. There are incels who take snippets of his videos and run with them. I remember seeing a clip about enforced monogamy vs polygamy. By the time it was modified, it sounded like 'Forced Monogamy.' And boy did the trolls run. 🙄 It wasn't what JP said or meant. It's crazy.
That so called Canadian accent is only spoken in one of the ten provinces of Canada…lol So don’t be surprised if 90% of Canadians don’t talk with THAT accent.
He's more of a saviour of incels than a king of them.
There’s no Canadian accent lol there’s only a Maritime provinces(east coast) accent, a very small part of Canada! Most Canadians don’t speak French either! From BC Canada 🇨🇦
He isn't the king of incels or intellectuals. He is the king of conjecture and poor extrapolation.
The best video I’ve seen yet about what’s actually going on in “our” world! Omg🎉
I find it very insulting that anyone would call your father one from everything I’ve watched and as a woman your father is one of the smartest man I’ve ever heard speak on this platform he’s one of the most well-informed people that I’ve ever spoken out for women and men are like your dad is pointed out more and more that we are treated the same if we’re willing to act the same and as an aggressive female that’s not someone that’s gonna be placated yeah I’m just as good as any man I can do any job any man can do and your dad is trying to make it more acceptable for that to be the norm and I love him for that your father is one of my heroes as an adult and I think more people should actively listen to him with an open mind and stop letting the left is bullshit cloud your thinking process and actually do some critical thinking and think for themselves
This seems to apply more to women and men in their 20s and maybe 30s. Women that are now in there mid 40s and older experienced things a little differently but I could be off base. For example, men would say things like “You are a working girl or you are a career girl.” It was odd for people to say that because you have no choice you HAVE to work. Many older women were also raised with “don’t depend on a man and be independent so you don’t have to rely on someone else.” Many women in the past that were sLet’s be honest many older women put up with so much abuse for spouses and these are women who were dependent on their husbands. How would one explain that? Many of these older women as well as younger women would like to find a spouse and have kids but it is so expensive and the risks are soooo high. We still have laws and function as a society where someone stays home all day with the kids. If a person is single then there is unspoken rule that you work holidays, weekends and cover for people and yet get the fewest raises because you don’t have dependents!! So a single person is just tired and doesn’t have time and algorithms for dating apps want people to keep dating and using their apps. What’s the point of creating an algorithm where people get good matches. I am in no way saying that people are not responsible for their situation but there are factors where using ideas and approaches that worked in the past don’t really work now and having a glorified nostalgia for the past is dangerous because it wasn’t all that great either.
He was not in that generation. Jordan peterson might know about that. Women had it bad in past relationships. Only when we had abundance of food and easier life gives us time to reflect on what good relationships are instead needing each other to survive not love
boo hoo, women had to work theyre so opressed, lol and now all are privileged so why are you crying?
"Many women in the past that were Let’s be honest many older women put up with so much abuse for spouses" - how many? I don't know. This seems like some feminist myth to be honest. Women have a propensity for viewing things in a negative way looking back. In the past we were at least able to maintain a functioning society. That is not true anymore and we are very fast heading towards destruction. If men and women don't get together to form families, the game is finished. The system cannot be sustained by individuals with no skin in the game, only going on holidays and having fun.
I can't believe that someone online is actually talking about this finally. Great job @Mikhaila Peterson for finding topics and guests that bring this to the public in a research backed tradition and yet accessible to wider audience. 👍
It seems that when talking about MGTOW no one is willing to get it right. It started with the MRAs who thought they could negotiate with modern women and make society more attentive to men's (and fathers') rights. Most of these MRAs were older men who have children and who had been destroyed through the family courts. After years of activism, many MRAs realized that women are not interested in making things more fair between the sexes. Women are in it to grab as much as possible for themselves, even if they have to destroy their spouses and children to do it. Some MRAs came to the conclusion that women see men merely as a means to an end : to be used then discarded at will. Those men were no longer interested in negotiating with women in any way and became the first MGTOW. Going your own way means that men should no longer put themselves last or sacrifice themselves for others' well-being. We put ourselves first. No more of this ''happy wife happy life' concept. We're not concerned with women's happiness, only our own. We build our lives, our skills, our money, our interests and keep it all to ourselves. We no longer provide for women : they'll have to do that for themselves. As to what society expects of us, it no longer matters. Some MGTOW continue to have friends with benefits, others find it simpler to stop having relations with women altogether; but the code is clear: No marriage, No children, No cohabitation. So when guys like you regularly compare MGTOW to incels you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You're either playing dumb or you can't be bothered to look it up. I WISH that the incels would wake up and become MGTOW instead, but clearly they're too thirsty to see what a liability most women have become.
Well said.
hear hear
An amazing way for a man to show status is to practice polarity. When a man can hold that pure stability of peace and meditation, holding the container for the devine feminine expression of pure emotion is so much more desirable than money.
Sure, maybe.. then the opposite sex should desire the same and stop obssess abt money and showing off own looks.
Lol
1:02:12 Here I think it's important to bring into the conversation how many ways of being a man that we teach boys can be degrading for these future men, for example: being too stoic, pushing emotions aside, having to be the holder of most responsiblities, not caring about care-giving and other ones.
There are many ways we've been taught to be men that limit us socially, disconnect us from our emotions and makes us treat ourselves as cannon fodder. I believe men not feeling masculine enough is also related to how we've taught them disadvantageous ways of being human; humans survived through evolution because we collaborated with each other and kept within strong communities that cared for each other, not because we throw ourselves at danger Rambo-Macho-Style.
A feminist would agree with your first paragraph, since what you described is toxic masculinity (which affects both gender)
The problem is you can't fix that until we can discuss female Hypoagency, male hyperagency, the male burden of performance, and men's gynocentric need for female validation to prove their masculinity.
cope overdose. all u said is irrelevant nonsense. as long as hypergamy exists, only the top percentages of men succeed in dating