2000 Guineas legends battle for the ultimate crown
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- We find out who is the best winner of the Newmarket Classic is. The likes of Brigadier Gerard, Dancing Brave, El Gran Senor and recent great Frankel feature in an all-star line-up - but who do you think will win?
The mighty brigadier gerard is a class above the rest and this is the right result.His turn of foot at the dip will never be seen again.
agreed
Yup. If you watch the 2000 guineas of 1971 the way Brigadier Gerard accelerates past two very good horses in Mill Reef and My Swallow is jaw-dropping. I definitely think that 2000 guineas is the best seen in the last 60 years. Brigadier Gerard is the best miler I've ever seen.
Dancing brave and brigadier the best IMO
don't ever forget........ Bridagadier won 17/18 and only got beat by that years Derby Winner giving away 11 pounds !
Also of all the "greats" brigadier was the only one to beat two Arc De Triomphe winners in Mill Reef & Rheingold
the Brigadier's times are faster than Frankel's and he regularly smashed umpteen course records including two after he got beat at York........
Frankle was full out and slowing rapidly in his very poor quality 2000 g.. El gran senor had Rainbow Quest out the back door. BG had My shallow and mill reef in his 2000. Excelebration was not even in Rainbow quests class. I love DB but over a mile i think EGS beats them all easily.
For those who find the result hard to swallow, then obviously you weren't around when Brigadier Gerard was strutting his stuff. He won quite a few races by wide margins also - and he beat the mighty Mill Reef. That said, I think it would have been a close run thing between Frankel and Brigadier Gerard. I also think they got the first three correct. El Gran Senor was a helluva horse too. Frankel would not have been able to burn those two off the way he did with Excelebration (sic) et al. Frankel could sustain his finishing kick from a long way out and the Brigadier could finish like a train from behind ; and whereas Frankel had to kick for home at least two furlongs out - but he would not have been able to shake off Brigadier Gerard or El Gran Senor, both of whom would have been able to match Frankel's cruising speed - as would Dancing Brave .
Frankel got away with the Guineas, everything went wrong in that race! Basically the horse bolted and he barely got home from a listed winner on the AW! if you compare times against winners from 1990 onwards Frankels is one of the slowest.In fact 17horses had way faster times than Frankels. So if he was ever going to be beaten then this race would have been the one!! From then on what a wonderful piece of training by HRC to settle the horse down and show his full potential.
BG was brilliantly consistent against tough opposition. Frankel was consistently brilliant against moderate opposition. Best milers to my eyes...1) El Gran Senor 2) Frankel 3) Dancing Brave. 👋🏻
The Frankel 2000G time was exceptional. There was a very strong headwind and you can compare it to the races on the same day. Dettori is on record saying it was freakish he could do that into the wind.
Wow that is exactly what would happen Frankel would be obliterated by the Brigadier on the run in god bless Joe Mercer what a horse.
I know there's a choice in these things, but we are talking about different eras. I have always believed that Sir Henry Cecil and Tom Queally did not know how to approach Frankel's method of running at Newmarket, and Tom felt his initial burn would get the job done. Later in his career, his true potential was realised. If he was allowed to run in this, in the same manner as his Queen Anne victory in 2012, I believe you would have a different result. His Guineas was a total one-off. However, a number of people have always maintained that the Brigadier was better than Frankel, and this sort of thing just adds to that. Personally it does not matter. We have been blessed over the generations with some fine thoroughbreds and Frankel and the Brigadier stood out.
I reckon they got the first 4 spot on in this.
Great work.
I reckon if El Gran Senor had been kept to 8-10f at 3 he would have been unbeatable.
The video is spot on
Brigadier Gerard was a better horse than Frankel.
Where's Nijinsky ? He.s the only horse that would of given the brigadier a true test . Some great horses in the race but not even Frankel would of coped with Brigadier Gerard beat derby winners arc winners multiple group 1 horses easily. Would of won the Derby and Arc in a canter if connections had entered him. Watch his 2000 guineas race he made Mill Reef look ordinary and we all know he wasn't so how GOOD was the Brigadier. Yes up there with the greats of all time Secretariat Nijinsky Seabird and Ribot....
Who was on the Brigadier? He gave him a great ride -held him up brilliantly -
Joe Mercer rode Brigadier Gerard in all his 18 races.
Dancing brave would waving goodbye to them all
From 6f to 2miles
Easy Peasy The Brave was the best and had the best jockey in Pat Eddery!
What about Tudor Minstrel?
Proper result. The Brigadier was a monster at a mile.
Bert Smith
I think I agree with you.
@@BertSmithLondon 100‰ agree with this Bert
Most redundant and boring conversation ever is "who was the best ever" in any sport because it's completely pointless as different eras are totally incomparable for a myriad of reasons.
good lord the 'frankelites' wont like this -they need to remember there have been some brilliant horses over the years -lets not forget Sea The Stars, Rock of Gibraltar and the brilliant Nijinsky all great horses all deserve to be mentioned-over a mile to a mile and 2 f -IMO i would lean to the brigadier just-and bear in mind how great he was-over a mile and 4f the mind boggles I can just imagine Sea the Stars leading inside the final furlong and Dancing Brave finishing like a train-would he catch him i would like to think so-BUT its all conjecture we will never know-We all have our own opinion lets just enjoy the magic of you tube that allows us to watch them
I agree,if you really drill down into Frankel's opposition they weren't much and half his starts were in 4 horse fields were his stablemate was the chase horse set up to let frankle win
At last common sense prevails.
no nashwan?
Couldn't get a bet on! What kind of race is that?
and Frankel only won over 7 - 10 furlongs.....the Brigadier won over 5- 12 furlongs
I love Galileo ( Mick Kinane caused his defeat by Fantastic Light with a naive ride) and I love Frankel too.......but he was no Brigadier Gerard
wayward lad would have cooked them lot😜
I agree, Frankel probably wouldn't get away with beating horses of this calibre in the style he won his own Guineas.. but if he really was up against a field like this, could he have been restrained to sit in behind? I'm sure he could of, and so the result would have been much different. more like - 1st Frankel - 2nd Brigadier - 3rd El Gran Senor
Loved the Brigadier, but I don't think he would have beaten Frankel. Would also have expected Dancing Brave to be closer.
Sue Joarder Brigadier Gerrard would have beaten Frankel every time - In my humble opinion ;) #BothClassHorses
Its a shame we will never know. I followed horse racing very closely during The Brigadier's era - so many greats - Nijinsky, Mill Reef, Allez France. Timeform ranking didnt come in til much later, so its very difficult to compare these horses to Frankel. Having watch racing since those days, Im happy to go with Frankel as the best Ive ever seen.
One word,MILL REEF!
The Brigadier would have been some lead horse for Frankel…
The trouble is, he would have left him standing. No horse could beat Brigadier Gerard over a mile.
No way would they send Frankel out the front racing against these other greats. Frankel or Dancing Brave wins for me with BG and EGS just in behind.
No horse can reach Frankel. 147 rating confirms my opinion. If you say that timeform is wrong I could agree, but as humans , horses born later should be batterie. By training, by better food and by better doping!
Frankel wouldn't get beat!!
This is bullshit, no horse ever did what frankel did in the guineas, all the top names in racing said as much. This is an insult .
Nijinsky ..... hard held
The brigadier the best
Arn't we forgetting about Right Tack?
Right Tack was a great racehorse, he didnt get his chance's and always had more potential than he showed at the track.
Some odd horses amongst those outside the top three.
Absolute donkeys were catching Frankel in his 2000 gns, don't believe me, check out the form of the horses he beat, I'm not sure the 2nd and the 3rd won a race between them. Brigadier Gerard flew past a horse that was never beaten again, Mill Reef won The Derby, The King George, The Coronation Cup, the Eclipse and The Arc De Triomphe, and Brigadier Gerard left him for dead. Even as a two year old Mill Reef was a machine. All these Frankel lovers talk about his QE2 race at Ascot, but that was a struggle compared to how Mill Reef won the Gymcrack. Brigadier Gerard was the greatest miler of all time. ua-cam.com/video/cH1hn8aBDJY/v-deo.html
Sea The Stars??
Dancing brave was the best ever, won the best arc de triomphe in history, Guineas, coral eclipse, king George,, frankel brillisnt horse would never beat dancing brave at 1 and a half mile, frankel beat the same horses
Well said, and certainly on that basis one of the most versatile.
Only Nijinsky was perhaps in the same category.
@@andrewking6562
Agree..
Nijinsky and the Brave..
Didn't win the Derby and Brigadier Gerard was faster
@Gerard Oconnell wasn’t tested on foreign soil, same as frankel ,, dancing brave took on the best on foreign soil and hammered them,, different class the brave
@@thebay77sanfrancisco72
Couldn't win the biggest race on home soil though.
No match for the Brigadier over 8 or 10 furlongs
Axaxaaa yeah rite🤣🤣🤣 Frankel would destroy them all. 💪
Dancing Brave not placed, come on Frankel, Dancing Brave, Brigadier, short head, neck
Interesting
Ridiculous! No chance of Frankel getting beaten!
None of them met a Dancing Brave
@@BertSmithLondon I actually believe this is probably as close as it would have been if it was a actual real race.
Where's the Rock? Zilzal? Lots of others not here too!
Zilzal didn't run in the guineas .
Mark of Esteem?
Dancing Brave
Sea The Stars
Frankel
Best horses you will ever see
Not a chance...
1st Dancing Brave
2nd Frankel
3rd Brigadier Gerrard.
The brigadier winning was the correct result. Frankel was overated.
I have a lot of respect for Frankel but I do think he's was needlessly over hyped and this would have very probably be the result.
farcical. according to timeform the greatest two thousand guineas winner from 1947 onwards is Tudor Minstrel
Fiction, Frankel wouldn't have finished top 6
Nashwan not even in the race who imo without doubt would have beaten Frankel inthe guineas
Dancing brave and Zafonic not placed..
Cartoon racing right enough..
Oh and I was around for Brigadier Gerard!!!..
What??? 😂
I agree!!! Nowt could beat our frankel eh 🙃🙂
El Gran Senor would have won that quite comfortably...Best miler ever
Best. Mate would beat this lot.
If shergar was here he would've demolished the whole field rest in peace shergar
Not over a mile....
@@BertSmithLondon better chance with SEA PIGEON
Old Vid but what a load of bollocks. But an Interesting fact. Not one of the horses ever ran a recorded sub 11sec furlong, except Frankel
@@BertSmithLondon Frankel could have been a champion from 5f to 12f. You should watch this vid on sectional Sectional timings ua-cam.com/video/kty0GCxbDRs/v-deo.html ;-)BTW Frankel's last 4f in the 2012 Sussex. 11.08. 10.75. 10.42. 12.05. average speed over those 4f was 41mph. Fastest furlong was an average speed 43.5mph. No 8f horse before or since could have live with that sustained speed. Remember in this race he was cruising , and on the bridle, pulling up the final Furlong
Winx did and many times at that,winx also recorded sub 33 second last 3 furlongs in a few of her races