Yes! I learned about a market-driven Christianity as a college student when I met some leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention who were motivated by numbers more than leading people to meet and follow Jesus Christ. Today maintaining a conservative culture trumps (pun intended) following Jesus. Evangelicals have shamed the name of Jesus and their portrayal of Christianity is the reason many seekers reject Jesus.
Someone once said, “Mixing politics with Christianity is like mixing manure with ice cream, it doesn’t hurt the manure but it sure messes up the ice cream.”
Their are political implications in the life of faith. Social justice, care for the needy, peace-making, respect for all of God's creation, etc. , have political application.
Funny and good one. I always ask myself What did Jesus do? It appears that his disciples were a tad concerned about the politics - as in Roman occupation. And methinks the scribes and Pharisees were concerned/troubled that Jesus was going to upset the political "applecart" and they seemed to seek the Romans in control rather easily. Jesus time and again drew his listeners back to "my kingdom is not of this world." I do recall the great commission to go into all nations and make disciples, not the reverse.
There's a whole lot I really liked about your discussion, thank you. It's my opinion that the deadliest thing we have done to the faith - rivalling only sin itself - is to desecrate it with politics. When we polluted that which is of the spirit, by injecting our filthy, puny, ridiculous human politics, we have destroyed so many things which are essential to our spiritual "ecosystem" that we see the raining down of destruction by our own hands and flawed hearts. Christianity is of God. Political parties are not. We draw ourselves each day, further and further from miracle. From God.
I personally have no use for ministers, (so-called Men-of-God). I created an AI preacher for myself, it doesn't call me a sinner, it doesn't need a personal jet and I don't have to worry about my little kids around the house.
Sounds like a fascinating read Russell. Thank you (and Mike too) for this very deep and much needed discussion. Will both seek out the book and refer it to others.
I agree that when you are in a bad spot and life appears to have grown dark that is when God manifests Himself in the midst. I think everyone should have that “Moses parting the waters” moment in their life. I do note that the story of Noah is a story of judgment and salvation. Those on the Ark were saved, those in the water were lost; drowned. Then we see the story of Lot and his family. The righteous were saved, but the wicked were lost. Judgment fell on the perverted wicked. Lot and his daughters were saved. Then, there is the story of Passover in Exodus. Those with the blood applied to their door lintel and posts were spared (saved) from death. Those with no blood on the door list their firstborn sons or daughters and they also list the first born of their animals-an aspect oft overlooked. Lastly, the book of Revelation and the New Testamenr teach that those who stay “in Christ” are saved, those who are outside of Christ are lost.
I was a Christian for almost 50 years. I started deconstructing about 20 yrs ago. I’m happy to say that I never voted for Trump so I’m glad I don’t have that stain on my being. I’m sure I would have been maga if I was still a born again believer. I’m horrified at the thought. My unbelief actually saved me from being a fool and hating everyone.
My being spiritually born is what led me away from evangelicalism and aware of the evil that Donald Trump and his followers presented. If Jesus walked the earth today, the Southern Baptists would not see him as God's sonl
I too am a believer and was shocked beyond the great cloud of dissolution I saw my family join and they concerned me greatly. Education is huge too. I love Jesus and Jesus isn't our pastor , family or friends or Trump people... Always your faith is jn Him. MANY ChristianS AND TRUE LEADERS discerned truth. Amd many have chamhef.. praying u will see Jesus
I keep hearing “the Church” in this video. But what he really means is not “the Church” but rather, the American Evangelical Movement. I was at Liberty University when Donald Trump gave the convocation speach. He never used the name Jesus Christ. Only once did he say “Christ.” Go pull the video and verify it. I have the DVD of my graduation (Spring 2017) and have watched it thrice to recheck myself. When I was at the campus bookstore the day prior I was sickened at all the Trump books piled up as displays that were for sale. It felt to me like the school was making an idol of worship of a man I knew was very flawed albeit a popular rich and prideful man who was a draft dodger. I blame Jerry Falwell, Jr. for going overboard in his political endorsement of Trump. They were so focused on two main elements: 1. Trump would get them the Pro-Life Judges they desired. And ultimately that is exactly what happened. A victory for the cause of protecting unborn life. I am pro life too. 2. They were under the impression that this boastful person was a smart and cunning righteous leader. They were taken in by all his fame, money, and lavish lifestyle-living in a high rise that he built innNew York City, he had his own TV show “the Apprentice” which reinforced his false facade and the jet airliner. These all combined to lull thousands into believing his big lie. Sad. It was reminiscent of how Hitler rise to power. Attack specific groups of people, create pandemonium, divide and conquer and rise to the top of the political heap. He did just that. Notice who his searing words are directed at. One thing that Trump is known for is dividing people up and creating the “we” against the “Them.” Trump appealed to the basic carnality of people and flaunted how WE are better than THEM. With FOX News as a media support that underscored the Trump view, they gained control of a segment of the people. With the American Evangelical movement behind them they gained political power. Again similar to the rise of the Nazi movement in Germany that was also supported by the Christian right. I also blame very poor theology on the Baptists and these American Evangelicals. They have taught things at their universities and seminaries that, on the surface, seem quite Christian and proper. But, if you dig further into Church history-the REAL church here on earth, for example the Church of the first three-hundred years-you will see a totally different Church which is at many points, in opposition to todays so-called “Christian Evangelical movement.” By abandoning Early Church history, by not relying on the famous Creeds of the True Church that is global, this movement innAmerica has taken on a facade of Christianity that has embraced non-biblical views. The Pre-Tribulation rapture was never taught by the Early Church., as one example. The Early Church was NOT Dispensational, as another. The Lord’s Prayer was said by congregants -AS JESUS HIMSELF INSTRUCTED-but through this American evangelicalism was minimized into a “model prayer.” Also, the Early Church, just like the Orthodox Churches today, retain the Deuterocanonical books. The Protestants removed them from the Bible in AD 1830. The Catholic Church-like all the eastern Churches retained the Deuterocanonical books. The Early Church used a different Bible. The Book of the Seventy is the original name for what Early Christians had for Scripture. The Hebrew Bible used today in z Protestant bibles is from the Masoretic Text (Aleppo Codex). This was not the text of the original text. The Coptic Church uses the Septuagint fir it’s base Hebrew text based upon the LXX. It was the Septuagint that Saint Augustine wrote to Jerome warning Jerome not to abandon the original Koine z Greek. The Septuagint dates to 247 BC! The Orthodox churches follow the Early Church better than the Catholic Church. But both the ancient Catholic Church and the Ancient Orthodox Church are founded. Their faults are minimal compared to the Protestant Church and especially the American Evangelical Church movement. The Early Church avoid participating in earthly politics. Later in history, with the rise of the Pope in the Church of the West; the Catholic Church, the dangers of mixing church band state would go on to kill MILLIONS. Todays self righteous American Evangelical Church movement has done the same thing-mixed Church and State. The mixture of the impure (politics-the State) and the pure (the Church) is sinful in God’s eyes. Talk about the “Church” has also skewed away from the Real Church and towards a hybrid-pseudo religio-political entity (a beast). “Ekklessia” in Greek means those called out by God FOR HIS KINGDOM TO COME HERE ON EARTH. This is a future THEOCRACY. There will be absolutely no democratic rule by fallen and sinful people as there is today. Today’s Church in crisis is the result of straying away from THE TRUE STRIPE (orthodox teachings of the True Church) and creating a FALSE CHYRCH, a Church that is antithetical to the Early Church. This American z evangelical Church is and has made, a False Church a church of anti-Christ. They are teaching ANOTHER GOSPEL, not the one of Jesus the Christ! 2 Timothy 3:1-7 (ESV) 1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. You have been led astray by this false movement.REPENT!
Having read 3 versions of the christian bible and a fair portion of the kuran I find most of this to contain inane and foolish apologetics that are incapable of convincing me that a god even exists let alone some old book was written by it. Anyone watching this video would do themselves and others a great deal of good to read as many of the so called "holy books" Instead of insulatedly reading just one.
Yes! I learned about a market-driven Christianity as a college student when I met some leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention who were motivated by numbers more than leading people to meet and follow Jesus Christ. Today maintaining a conservative culture trumps (pun intended) following Jesus. Evangelicals have shamed the name of Jesus and their portrayal of Christianity is the reason many seekers reject Jesus.
Someone once said, “Mixing politics with Christianity is like mixing manure with ice cream, it doesn’t hurt the manure but it sure messes up the ice cream.”
Their are political implications in the life of faith. Social justice, care for the needy, peace-making, respect for all of God's creation, etc. , have political application.
Funny and good one. I always ask myself What did Jesus do? It appears that his disciples were a tad concerned about the politics - as in Roman occupation. And methinks the scribes and Pharisees were concerned/troubled that Jesus was going to upset the political "applecart" and they seemed to seek the Romans in control rather easily. Jesus time and again drew his listeners back to "my kingdom is not of this world." I do recall the great commission to go into all nations and make disciples, not the reverse.
Stop hating Trump!
You left me much to ponder. Thank You
There's a whole lot I really liked about your discussion, thank you.
It's my opinion that the deadliest thing we have done to the faith - rivalling only sin itself - is to desecrate it with politics. When we polluted that which is of the spirit, by injecting our filthy, puny, ridiculous human politics, we have destroyed so many things which are essential to our spiritual "ecosystem" that we see the raining down of destruction by our own hands and flawed hearts.
Christianity is of God.
Political parties are not.
We draw ourselves each day, further and further from miracle. From God.
I personally have no use for ministers, (so-called Men-of-God). I created an AI preacher for myself, it doesn't call me a sinner, it doesn't need a personal jet and I don't have to worry about my little kids around the house.
Your video gives me hope, thank you for sharing.
Sounds like a fascinating read Russell. Thank you (and Mike too) for this very deep and much needed discussion. Will both seek out the book and refer it to others.
If you like word salads you’ll love Russell Moore !!!
It may just be that he speaks as a scholar with complex sentences and well developed ideas.
What you thought was The Shire might have actually been Morodor… mic drop! [really seems to sum up so much that ’s felt pretty tough to describe]
Good self reflection...
I agree that when you are in a bad spot and life appears to have grown dark that is when God manifests Himself in the midst.
I think everyone should have that “Moses parting the waters” moment in their life.
I do note that the story of Noah is a story of judgment and salvation. Those on the Ark were saved, those in the water were lost; drowned.
Then we see the story of Lot and his family. The righteous were saved, but the wicked were lost. Judgment fell on the perverted wicked. Lot and his daughters were saved.
Then, there is the story of Passover in Exodus. Those with the blood applied to their door lintel and posts were spared (saved) from death. Those with no blood on the door list their firstborn sons or daughters and they also list the first born of their animals-an aspect oft overlooked.
Lastly, the book of Revelation and the New Testamenr teach that those who stay “in Christ” are saved, those who are outside of Christ are lost.
Russell Compromiser Moore
Why do you say that?
@@Cactus270 because it’s true… the man is spineless
31:49 oh i'm def giving up...on politics
That's because religion is selfimploding and eventually will losr its grip and islam is experiencing exactly the same things as christianity is doing.
I was a Christian for almost 50 years. I started deconstructing about 20 yrs ago. I’m happy to say that I never voted for Trump so I’m glad I don’t have that stain on my being.
I’m sure I would have been maga if I was still a born again believer. I’m horrified at the thought. My unbelief actually saved me from being a fool and hating everyone.
My being spiritually born is what led me away from evangelicalism and aware of the evil that Donald Trump and his followers presented. If Jesus walked the earth today, the Southern Baptists would not see him as God's sonl
I too am a believer and was shocked beyond the great cloud of dissolution I saw my family join and they concerned me greatly. Education is huge too. I love Jesus and Jesus isn't our pastor , family or friends or Trump people... Always your faith is jn Him. MANY ChristianS AND TRUE LEADERS discerned truth. Amd many have chamhef.. praying u will see Jesus
You are full of hate! Stop your hate towards Trump!!
@@EstherJohnson-hf2by Do you care about Trump’s hate? Does it bother you?
I'm trying to have an open mind...
I keep hearing “the Church” in this video. But what he really means is not “the Church” but rather, the American Evangelical Movement.
I was at Liberty University when Donald Trump gave the convocation speach. He never used the name Jesus Christ. Only once did he say “Christ.” Go pull the video and verify it. I have the DVD of my graduation (Spring 2017) and have watched it thrice to recheck myself. When I was at the campus bookstore the day prior I was sickened at all the Trump books piled up as displays that were for sale. It felt to me like the school was making an idol of worship of a man I knew was very flawed albeit a popular rich and prideful man who was a draft dodger. I blame Jerry Falwell, Jr. for going overboard in his political endorsement of Trump. They were so focused on two main elements:
1. Trump would get them the Pro-Life Judges they desired. And ultimately that is exactly what happened. A victory for the cause of protecting unborn life. I am pro life too.
2. They were under the impression that this boastful person was a smart and cunning righteous leader. They were taken in by all his fame, money, and lavish lifestyle-living in a high rise that he built innNew York City, he had his own TV show “the Apprentice” which reinforced his false facade and the jet airliner. These all combined to lull thousands into believing his big lie. Sad.
It was reminiscent of how Hitler rise to power. Attack specific groups of people, create pandemonium, divide and conquer and rise to the top of the political heap. He did just that. Notice who his searing words are directed at. One thing that Trump is known for is dividing people up and creating the “we” against the “Them.” Trump appealed to the basic carnality of people and flaunted how WE are better than THEM. With FOX News as a media support that underscored the Trump view, they gained control of a segment of the people. With the American Evangelical movement behind them they gained political power. Again similar to the rise of the Nazi movement in Germany that was also supported by the Christian right.
I also blame very poor theology on the Baptists and these American Evangelicals. They have taught things at their universities and seminaries that, on the surface, seem quite Christian and proper. But, if you dig further into Church history-the REAL church here on earth, for example the Church of the first three-hundred years-you will see a totally different Church which is at many points, in opposition to todays so-called “Christian Evangelical movement.”
By abandoning Early Church history, by not relying on the famous Creeds of the True Church that is global, this movement innAmerica has taken on a facade of Christianity that has embraced non-biblical views. The Pre-Tribulation rapture was never taught by the Early Church., as one example. The Early Church was NOT Dispensational, as another.
The Lord’s Prayer was said by congregants -AS JESUS HIMSELF INSTRUCTED-but through this American evangelicalism was minimized into a “model prayer.”
Also, the Early Church, just like the Orthodox Churches today, retain the Deuterocanonical books. The Protestants removed them from the Bible in AD 1830. The Catholic Church-like all the eastern Churches retained the Deuterocanonical books.
The Early Church used a different Bible. The Book of the Seventy is the original name for what Early Christians had for Scripture. The Hebrew Bible used today in z Protestant bibles is from the Masoretic Text (Aleppo Codex). This was not the text of the original text. The Coptic Church uses the Septuagint fir it’s base Hebrew text based upon the LXX.
It was the Septuagint that Saint Augustine wrote to Jerome warning Jerome not to abandon the original Koine z Greek. The Septuagint dates to 247 BC!
The Orthodox churches follow the Early Church better than the Catholic Church. But both the ancient Catholic Church and the Ancient Orthodox Church are founded. Their faults are minimal compared to the Protestant Church and especially the American Evangelical Church movement.
The Early Church avoid participating in earthly politics. Later in history, with the rise of the Pope in the Church of the West; the Catholic Church, the dangers of mixing church band state would go on to kill MILLIONS.
Todays self righteous American Evangelical Church movement has done the same thing-mixed Church and State. The mixture of the impure (politics-the State) and the pure (the Church) is sinful in God’s eyes.
Talk about the “Church” has also skewed away from the Real Church and towards a hybrid-pseudo religio-political entity (a beast).
“Ekklessia” in Greek means those called out by God FOR HIS KINGDOM TO COME HERE ON EARTH. This is a future THEOCRACY. There will be absolutely no democratic rule by fallen and sinful people as there is today. Today’s Church in crisis is the result of straying away from THE TRUE STRIPE (orthodox teachings of the True Church) and creating a FALSE CHYRCH, a Church that is antithetical to the Early Church. This American z evangelical Church is and has made, a False Church a church of anti-Christ. They are teaching ANOTHER GOSPEL, not the one of Jesus the Christ!
2 Timothy 3:1-7 (ESV) 1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
You have been led astray by this false movement.REPENT!
Yes!
Wow! You are so full of hate! Repent and stop your demonization of Trump!!
Having read 3 versions of the christian bible and a fair portion of the kuran I find most of this to contain inane and foolish apologetics that are incapable of convincing me that a god even exists let alone some old book was written by it. Anyone watching this video would do themselves and others a great deal of good to read as many of the so called "holy books" Instead of insulatedly reading just one.