Thank you, Philip Yancy! I enjoyed your book What's So Amazing About Grace and it helped me immensely as I unlearned the ways of the Church where I was raised to have my own faith and life in Christ.
I grew up without a father, too. I'm a 69 year old woman. I grew up with an image of God as a bully. You and C.S. Lewis have helped me so much the last 20 years. Thank you so much!
Wow! This was a fantastic interview! I'm sorry it took me two years to find it as there are a ton of brilliant, thought-provoking comments in here. I took a lot of notes--and I am NOT a note-taker. Thank you so much!
Wonderful interview. I am 70 years old, raised very conservative Southern Baptist. I left the faith and became an agnostic in my twenties, but slowly re-entered the world of faith when my sister, who felt a call to ministry had to leave the SBC for another denomination because the SBC does not ordain women. I followed her into her new denomination. I could not believe it. It was a total departure from the fear-based threat of eternal damnation. Outside of "thy Kingdom come, they will be done" I had never been taught about the Kingdom of God, that it's here and that it's within us. That Jesus laid out the nature of God's kingdom, and how we are supposed to function in it (loving God and neighbor, forgiving even our enemies, to be servants, to help the poor, that the least will be the greatest, etc). What a totally life-changing experience.
I can dig it! Would you mind disclosing the denomination which supported your sister's call to ministry? From the description of it, I found similar teachings in Conservative Christian communities, minus the non-ordination of women.
1 John 4:18 ESV There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. Thanks, Philip Yancey and Russell Moore.
Two things came to my mind listening to this conversation: 1. "Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." Phil 4.8 2. The way to get rid of darkness in our lives and in our world is to turn on the light - not to stand still yelling at the darkness!
This discussion was so beautiful, and deeply personal. I've heard both of you on The Holy Post podcast and am so grateful for voices like yours faithfully portraying the real Jesus. I had to walk away from a once loving congregation who veered into the weeds, and flew solo for almost seven years, during which time I carefully studied the gospels, the letters of Paul, and especially the Beatitudes and teachings of Christ. My conclusion: my former associates were now following another Christ, one they could manipulate into championing their defense of the indefensible. I was labeled Marxist, baby killer, pure evil...and never looked back. I, God forbid, read banned books, listened to secular music, watched "Late Night" with Stephen Colbert. I loved nature, found solace in solitude, had a nuanced thought process about current issues. I was " Woke." Honing in on the real Jesus has only caused me to fall more in love with Him. I've walked with Christ since age 22. I am now 73, almost 74. I left the church world because of hypocritical Christianity, racism, social indifference to war and poverty, and a rigid rule based faith, and entered the 60's counter culture where justice and acceptance of others mattered. But the whole peace and love thing devolved into lawlessness, and disillusioned, I explored Carl Jung, pseudo psychology, Eastern Meditation practices, and became quickly disillusioned with that too. I know now that Jesus stood patiently by waiting for me to come to the end of myself. One critical night, when I seriously considered suicide, I lay on my bed and called out to Jesus. He came, and everything changed. He has ever been my faithful Savior, my strength, my hope. Life has certainly had its challenges. Many ups and downs, wilderness seasons, bad church experiences, divorce, broken dreams, heartbreak, and struggle. Through it all He has been my rock, the one who promised that whatever I went through, He went through with me. I raised five children on my own, and can honestly say, " Only by the grace of God." He has proven Himself Faithful, again and again. Thank you for this frank discussion. So valuable, honest, and encouraging. I'm going to obtain Philip Yancey's book. He speaks directly to my soul. Thank you Mr. Moore, for being a faithful witness for Christ. Appreciated more than you can imagine. God Bless.
Before my conversion, I never had much interest in Christianity and Jesus primarily because I thought I didn't need Him because I was already a “good” person. However, I was drawn to the faith of Christians I had close contact with in school. I’m glad that at that point of conversion, He met with love, grace, and mercy.
I have noticed for several years, maybe decades, how many evangelical Christians here in the U.S. have mixed nationalism, religion and even racism. Historian Garry Willis says that before the Civil War, all pastors in the South were pro-slavery and they used the Bible to justify their beliefs. I often wonder how Christians could ever delude themselves with such thinking given that the Exodus story is the central story of faith in the OT, and it’s certainly not pro slavery. My best guess is the inertia of antebellum racism still contaminates us to this day. Given that there are so many people who call themselves Christians, who conflate racism and nationalism with their faith, makes me doubt the veracity of Christianity itself. And this extends into antisemitism, as well. BTW, I really like your interviews. Keep up the good work.
I wouldn't confuse the Christianity of the New Testament with nominal Christianity as we generally find it. Was Jesus a patriot, and if so, for which nation, Judea of the first century or the Roman Empire? Jesus stood aloof from the nationalistic zealotry that launched the First Jewish Revolt and he was clearly no exponent of Roman imperial power. He said his followers would not fight, because his kingdom was not of this world (Jn 18:36). Genuine disciples of the Jesus of Scripture are as rare today as they were two thousand years ago.
"Historian Garry Willis says that before the Civil War, all pastors in the South were pro-slavery and they used the Bible to justify their beliefs." I've never heard of Garry Willis, but he's obviously a terrible scholar! It takes 10s on google to find e.g. David Barrow.
The title of this shows some real contempt for the bible belt. I have no first hand experience with the Bible belt but Christians should have affection for other Christians and this does a disservice to that.
Near Death Experiences teach is all about being embraced in complete love, complete acceptance, and zero judgement. And fear: Anita Moorjani learned about that:" live fearlessly " she was told. No fear of what even the slightest thing: what good to eat or not for your health, worries about being likes... no fear. Most certainly not about Source, the Divine.
What Yancey doesn't realize is that God made the universe FOR US! It's ALL about us! There is nothing else out there. God would no more make a race of beings on another planet than a good father would go down the block and start more families.
@@merriferrell2818 Not that I respect every one of CS Lewis's views but where is the source of that view? I can guarantee you that God didn't make any other intelligent beings on any other planet in any other universe! That would be totally unlike Him! It would be like your dad going down the block and starting another family! And you have to ask yourself why you would want other intelligent beings in other universes? Something puzzling about that and it's a good opening for the devil, IMO. Lots of atheists believe in ET beings. Atheists LOVE Star Trek, for example!
How can you, a mortal, be assured the creator of the universe never, in all eternity beyond our comprehension, created more than our earth? We are still discovering stars whose light is perceived beyond their existence.
@@merriferrell2818 Because I know Him. from meeting Him and walking with Him for 25 years! Yeah, He made the universe but it is all just a back drop for us. We are the only actors on this stage.
Pride and Vanity and pointless to boot. We have more to do right here in our own backyards, than worry about whether or not God created intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It doesn't matter. Love God, love your neighbor. If you manage to do that love your enemy because Christbdied for them as well. If youbsucceedbat that, then maybe you can worry aboutbwether there are aliens and if so, does God love them.@@joeking433
So as a Southern Baptist kid growing up, I feel like you guys are saying I am a bully just by my baptist existence. Yet I never did these things, but I guess because my upbringing was not as caustic as Phillip's I am just a low life fundamentalist.
No, what makes you a fundamentalist is taking two people's life experiences and twisting them into a commentary on you. How sad that this would be your one take-away after hearing two people talk about very real and often painful times in their lives, while also extolling the grace and kindness of God.
@@argentinisima YAWN. Stop with the fragile venom, the derision of something you don't understand. Every other comment here is someone reflecting on their own experience relative to the video. Admit it, you just have a grudge for certain kinds of people, and you love to dehumanize them. I'm not what you'd call a "fundamentalist," but I consider being called one by people like you a badge of honor.
_"The Washington Post columnist Kathleen Parker called Moore a “prophet in a time of darkness” who “has single-handedly brought the evangelical world to its knees.” "_ Kiss of death.
This is an interesting interview. It shows the grace and love of the Lord that Yancey can have such a horrid experience with his mother and yet still the Lord can reach him with the love of Christ. That said...its quite astounding how many times Yancey says "I, me and my" in just an hour. Granted its an interview about his life, however even considering that, he reveals the "tell" that all progressive Christians seem to share. They have this extreme selfish navel gazing which often seems to get in the way of their seeing, fully knowing and being in relationship with Christ. Thankfully, the Lord has apparently been able to work around that trait to reach Yancey! It is interesting however how this navel gazing seems to prevent the two from being self aware as neither Moore nor Yancey seem to recognize that it is the same Democrats who they apparently support today who were kicking blacks out of the church in the South. But as stated...this was an interesting interview with some good points for Christ. I would just suggest to all progressive Christians, respectfully, its not about YOU, its about Christ and what He did FOR YOU. Good interview. Thank you for doing it.
It helps when you realize those democrats at the time were Jeffersonian conservative Christians. Are democrats today known as Jeffersonian conservative Christians? No, of course not. Informed people know this. People who bear false witness and encage in deception, pretend they don't.
@@noeladdy THAT is a flat lie told by Democrats because Democrat history is so embarrassing to their Party. Strom Thurmond switched Parties, and that is it nationally. Not one other racist Democrat switched Party from the Senate. And Thurmond did because of concern for Democrats moving towards support of communism, NOT for racial reasons! But every other nationally known racist Democrat remained in that Party! KKK Grand Kleagle Sen Robert Byrd...stayed Democrat. Racist Sen Fritz Hollings...stayed Democrat. Racist Sen Al Gore Sr...stayed Democrat. Racist Sen William Fullbright...stayed Democrat. So spare the bull shiite lie about Partys switching sides! The cops didn't all becoming robbers and the robbers all become cops one night!? Thats horse shiite! Democrats are the Party of Racism just as they were founded and still are today...they are just expanding their racial hatred in ways to continue to further the money, and power to the Party!
Why is it necessary to throw labels and politics in there - progressive and Democrat? I have never seen where Moore calls himself a progressive or a Democrat. In fact, he is anti-abortion, he is a Calvinist, believes in the inerrancy of scripture and a literal hell. Hardly the stuff of progressive Christians and Democrats. Criticizing Donald Trump and white nationalism and understanding that racism is still a problem in the US are really not political stances. They are probably much closer to the stance that Jesus would assume on those topics than that which is preached from many Christian pulpits today.
I've seen a lot of people like Russell Moore. They for some reason turn on their church and their Christian friends. Many even turn against God and become atheists. I can see Russell going there.
Thank you, Philip Yancy! I enjoyed your book What's So Amazing About Grace and it helped me immensely as I unlearned the ways of the Church where I was raised to have my own faith and life in Christ.
I grew up without a father, too. I'm a 69 year old woman. I grew up with an image of God as a bully. You and C.S. Lewis have helped me so much the last 20 years. Thank you so much!
Wow! This was a fantastic interview! I'm sorry it took me two years to find it as there are a ton of brilliant, thought-provoking comments in here. I took a lot of notes--and I am NOT a note-taker. Thank you so much!
Wonderful interview. I am 70 years old, raised very conservative Southern Baptist. I left the faith and became an agnostic in my twenties, but slowly re-entered the world of faith when my sister, who felt a call to ministry had to leave the SBC for another denomination because the SBC does not ordain women. I followed her into her new denomination. I could not believe it. It was a total departure from the fear-based threat of eternal damnation. Outside of "thy Kingdom come, they will be done" I had never been taught about the Kingdom of God, that it's here and that it's within us. That Jesus laid out the nature of God's kingdom, and how we are supposed to function in it (loving God and neighbor, forgiving even our enemies, to be servants, to help the poor, that the least will be the greatest, etc). What a totally life-changing experience.
Amen. thanks for sharing.
Indeed!
I can dig it! Would you mind disclosing the denomination which supported your sister's call to ministry? From the description of it, I found similar teachings in Conservative Christian communities, minus the non-ordination of women.
wonderful interview. Informative, thoughtful a clearer perspective of an aspect of the evangelical movement for me.
I'll always appreciate Yancy for helping me see how amazing Jesus is. The Jesus I never knew answered a whole list of questions I had about my faith.
1 John 4:18 ESV
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. Thanks, Philip Yancey and Russell Moore.
Two things came to my mind listening to this conversation:
1. "Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." Phil 4.8
2. The way to get rid of darkness in our lives and in our world is to turn on the light - not to stand still yelling at the darkness!
MLK: "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Great conversation. Lot to digest. Thank you!
This discussion was so beautiful, and deeply personal. I've heard both of you on The Holy Post podcast and am so grateful for voices like yours faithfully portraying the real Jesus. I had to walk away from a once loving congregation who veered into the weeds, and flew solo for almost seven years, during which time I carefully studied the gospels, the letters of Paul, and especially the Beatitudes and teachings of Christ. My conclusion: my former associates were now following another Christ, one they could manipulate into championing their defense of the indefensible. I was labeled Marxist, baby killer, pure evil...and never looked back. I, God forbid, read banned books, listened to secular music, watched "Late Night" with Stephen Colbert. I loved nature, found solace in solitude, had a nuanced thought process about current issues. I was " Woke." Honing in on the real Jesus has only caused me to fall more in love with Him. I've walked with Christ since age 22. I am now 73, almost 74. I left the church world because of hypocritical Christianity, racism, social indifference to war and poverty, and a rigid rule based faith, and entered the 60's counter culture where justice and acceptance of others mattered. But the whole peace and love thing devolved into lawlessness, and disillusioned, I explored Carl Jung, pseudo psychology, Eastern Meditation practices, and became quickly disillusioned with that too. I know now that Jesus stood patiently by waiting for me to come to the end of myself. One critical night, when I seriously considered suicide, I lay on my bed and called out to Jesus. He came, and everything changed. He has ever been my faithful Savior, my strength, my hope. Life has certainly had its challenges. Many ups and downs, wilderness seasons, bad church experiences, divorce, broken dreams, heartbreak, and struggle. Through it all He has been my rock, the one who promised that whatever I went through, He went through with me. I raised five children on my own, and can honestly say, " Only by the grace of God." He has proven Himself Faithful, again and again. Thank you for this frank discussion. So valuable, honest, and encouraging. I'm going to obtain Philip Yancey's book. He speaks directly to my soul. Thank you Mr. Moore, for being a faithful witness for Christ. Appreciated more than you can imagine. God Bless.
Before my conversion, I never had much interest in Christianity and Jesus primarily because I thought I didn't need Him because I was already a “good” person. However, I was drawn to the faith of Christians I had close contact with in school. I’m glad that at that point of conversion, He met with love, grace, and mercy.
Thank you, Gentlemen 🌹🌹🌹🌹
I have noticed for several years, maybe decades, how many evangelical Christians here in the U.S. have mixed nationalism, religion and even racism. Historian Garry Willis says that before the Civil War, all pastors in the South were pro-slavery and they used the Bible to justify their beliefs. I often wonder how Christians could ever delude themselves with such thinking given that the Exodus story is the central story of faith in the OT, and it’s certainly not pro slavery. My best guess is the inertia of antebellum racism still contaminates us to this day. Given that there are so many people who call themselves Christians, who conflate racism and nationalism with their faith, makes me doubt the veracity of Christianity itself. And this extends into antisemitism, as well. BTW, I really like your interviews. Keep up the good work.
I wouldn't confuse the Christianity of the New Testament with nominal Christianity as we generally find it. Was Jesus a patriot, and if so, for which nation, Judea of the first century or the Roman Empire? Jesus stood aloof from the nationalistic zealotry that launched the First Jewish Revolt and he was clearly no exponent of Roman imperial power. He said his followers would not fight, because his kingdom was not of this world (Jn 18:36). Genuine disciples of the Jesus of Scripture are as rare today as they were two thousand years ago.
YAWN
"Historian Garry Willis says that before the Civil War, all pastors in the South were pro-slavery and they used the Bible to justify their beliefs." I've never heard of Garry Willis, but he's obviously a terrible scholar! It takes 10s on google to find e.g. David Barrow.
The title of this shows some real contempt for the bible belt. I have no first hand experience with the Bible belt but Christians should have affection for other Christians and this does a disservice to that.
I agree, 💯 percent.
Near Death Experiences teach is all about being embraced in complete love, complete acceptance, and zero judgement. And fear: Anita Moorjani learned about that:" live fearlessly " she was told. No fear of what even the slightest thing: what good to eat or not for your health, worries about being likes... no fear. Most certainly not about Source, the Divine.
“Religion is the daughter of hope and fear explaining to ignorance the nature of the unknowable.” Ambrose Bierce -“
“Religion is a daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.” Ambrose Bierce -
Ambrose Bierce can be insightful, but he gets on my nerves quite a bit.
I came the other way. Jesus is real. Blessings.
Enjoyed this discussion greatly. And I see "My Mississippi" by Willie Morris and his photographer son David Rae on a bookshelf. Very good!
And people who lose a father...are lost.
What Yancey doesn't realize is that God made the universe FOR US! It's ALL about us! There is nothing else out there. God would no more make a race of beings on another planet than a good father would go down the block and start more families.
CSLewis would disagree. You don't know if God has created other universes
@@merriferrell2818 Not that I respect every one of CS Lewis's views but where is the source of that view? I can guarantee you that God didn't make any other intelligent beings on any other planet in any other universe! That would be totally unlike Him! It would be like your dad going down the block and starting another family! And you have to ask yourself why you would want other intelligent beings in other universes? Something puzzling about that and it's a good opening for the devil, IMO. Lots of atheists believe in ET beings. Atheists LOVE Star Trek, for example!
How can you, a mortal, be assured the creator of the universe never, in all eternity beyond our comprehension, created more than our earth? We are still discovering stars whose light is perceived beyond their existence.
@@merriferrell2818 Because I know Him. from meeting Him and walking with Him for 25 years! Yeah, He made the universe but it is all just a back drop for us. We are the only actors on this stage.
Pride and Vanity and pointless to boot. We have more to do right here in our own backyards, than worry about whether or not God created intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It doesn't matter. Love God, love your neighbor. If you manage to do that love your enemy because Christbdied for them as well. If youbsucceedbat that, then maybe you can worry aboutbwether there are aliens and if so, does God love them.@@joeking433
So as a Southern Baptist kid growing up, I feel like you guys are saying I am a bully just by my baptist existence. Yet I never did these things, but I guess because my upbringing was not as caustic as Phillip's I am just a low life fundamentalist.
No, what makes you a fundamentalist is taking two people's life experiences and twisting them into a commentary on you. How sad that this would be your one take-away after hearing two people talk about very real and often painful times in their lives, while also extolling the grace and kindness of God.
Sounds like every fundamentalist I have ever known. Close-minded, defensive, rigid, judgmental. This was a great discussion.
@@argentinisima YAWN. Stop with the fragile venom, the derision of something you don't understand. Every other comment here is someone reflecting on their own experience relative to the video.
Admit it, you just have a grudge for certain kinds of people, and you love to dehumanize them. I'm not what you'd call a "fundamentalist," but I consider being called one by people like you a badge of honor.
@@mileshall9235 YAWN right back at ya
_"The Washington Post columnist Kathleen Parker called Moore a “prophet in a time of darkness” who “has single-handedly brought the evangelical world to its knees.” "_
Kiss of death.
Has he ever gone to talk about his book in Africa? If someone comes to Christ, he could tell his mom.
This is an interesting interview. It shows the grace and love of the Lord that Yancey can have such a horrid experience with his mother and yet still the Lord can reach him with the love of Christ. That said...its quite astounding how many times Yancey says "I, me and my" in just an hour. Granted its an interview about his life, however even considering that, he reveals the "tell" that all progressive Christians seem to share. They have this extreme selfish navel gazing which often seems to get in the way of their seeing, fully knowing and being in relationship with Christ. Thankfully, the Lord has apparently been able to work around that trait to reach Yancey! It is interesting however how this navel gazing seems to prevent the two from being self aware as neither Moore nor Yancey seem to recognize that it is the same Democrats who they apparently support today who were kicking blacks out of the church in the South. But as stated...this was an interesting interview with some good points for Christ. I would just suggest to all progressive Christians, respectfully, its not about YOU, its about Christ and what He did FOR YOU. Good interview. Thank you for doing it.
It helps when you realize those democrats at the time were Jeffersonian conservative Christians. Are democrats today known as Jeffersonian conservative Christians? No, of course not. Informed people know this. People who bear false witness and encage in deception, pretend they don't.
“The same Democrats,” are Republicans. The southern Democrats of history are Republicans now.
@@noeladdy THAT is a flat lie told by Democrats because Democrat history is so embarrassing to their Party. Strom Thurmond switched Parties, and that is it nationally. Not one other racist Democrat switched Party from the Senate. And Thurmond did because of concern for Democrats moving towards support of communism, NOT for racial reasons! But every other nationally known racist Democrat remained in that Party! KKK Grand Kleagle Sen Robert Byrd...stayed Democrat. Racist Sen Fritz Hollings...stayed Democrat. Racist Sen Al Gore Sr...stayed Democrat. Racist Sen William Fullbright...stayed Democrat. So spare the bull shiite lie about Partys switching sides! The cops didn't all becoming robbers and the robbers all become cops one night!? Thats horse shiite! Democrats are the Party of Racism just as they were founded and still are today...they are just expanding their racial hatred in ways to continue to further the money, and power to the Party!
Why is it necessary to throw labels and politics in there - progressive and Democrat? I have never seen where Moore calls himself a progressive or a Democrat. In fact, he is anti-abortion, he is a Calvinist, believes in the inerrancy of scripture and a literal hell. Hardly the stuff of progressive Christians and Democrats. Criticizing Donald Trump and white nationalism and understanding that racism is still a problem in the US are really not political stances. They are probably much closer to the stance that Jesus would assume on those topics than that which is preached from many Christian pulpits today.
@@juliachildress2943 absolutely!
Horsefeathers. The Bible advocates slavery. But since Jesus never was a human being I guess it doesn’t matter.
Bromides. Fluff begets fluff.
The 'contemporary' Christianity. What a red flag. Yep you have a bad genealogy. Wake up! I'm
The Russell Moore show on cultural idolatry today.
I've seen a lot of people like Russell Moore. They for some reason turn on their church and their Christian friends. Many even turn against God and become atheists. I can see Russell going there.