Before this show, when a Christian would ask me "Why don't you believe in God?" I didn't know where to even begin, because there are so many reasons. Now, thanks to TAE, I'm able to explain my point of view and the most crucial points of my argument in an informed and quick manner. Thanks to everyone at TAE!
I have severe disabilities and brain damage and even I could tell where Eric was going wrong....wish I was as pretty as tracie, and as brave as Matt. Have been an atheist for four months now, and it was great to start thinking for myself. Christianity kept me chained in my wheelchair, now I am free to enjoy the life I have instead of wasting it dreaming about the next one. Atheists experience rocks!
If you don't have time to listen to the whole thing, Eric comes on at 21:55. Of course, it may very well be that "something" can come from "nothing", as at the quantum level there is real evidence that quark pairs pop into existence all the time within the vacuum of space. However, we don't actually know that the vacuum of space is actually "nothing".
kragseven Eric = Mark???? Holy Crap. The soap opera just gets weirder and weirder. I dunno, though. Mark had a reedy voice. Eric is very bassy. Don't know that a voice that deep could "lighten up" that much. And there are lots of guesses on these threads that "Joe" is also "Stotch"...or whatever. So...is this your conjecture? Or is there backup? Plus...holy crap again. They say give one quick point. He says he has seven...but they're real quick and easy to agree with. He makes his point, has a hard time accepting their objection. But eventually does concede that he understands the logic 101 concept that if I don't accept x is false, I am not necessarily asserting that x is true. And even then, 10 more minutes showing he doesn't grasp that. He kept asserting that Matt WAS claiming x was true. SO frustrating. THAT is why I had to bail 15 min or so into the debate they finally did.
I have a feeling that people who say “there are no atheist in foxholes have never been in a foxhole”. During Desert Storm while we were planning for a landing on the Kuwaiti coast, I was in several planning meetings in the wardroom on an LST. I looked at all the photos and maps of the beach head and all the obstacles. Obstacles are anti-tank mines, wire, tank traps, trenches to stop our Amtraks. It looked pretty scary and I wondered if I was going to get off that beach. But the landing was canceled and we ended up landing in Saudi Arabia and traveled north to Kuwait City airport. Long story short, I never cried out to God begging him to save me.
Don't think so. Eric Lounsbery has no interest in being questioned. In his "debate" with George Smith, he was allowed to rattle off his seven premises and a bunch of other garbage before Smith could respond. He's a Gish Galloper. That's the problem with standard forensic debate formats; one side can lie their ass off and the other side doesn't have enough time to debunk all of them.
About the Note: I'm a member of FTO in Amarillo and a student at WT. I attended the debate with my Christian daughter. We weren't able to stay and talk because of her late-pregnancy discomfort, but she had a comment she wanted to make to each of the speakers; so she gave Matt and Abdu a copy of the same note. FTO's message board said the beginning of this episode was about the debate. Irony abounds! I laughed and called her to come see her note on TV in Austin! She got a kick out of it. Thanks!
Eric the guy who wanted to stroke his ego by debating Matt then have a poll on who did the best. In a debate where you claim your opponent said something they didn’t, and they correct you. The 1st time is a mistake of misunderstanding, the 2nd ok you are still misunderstanding and it hasn’t sunk in, 3rd time you’re either not listening, stupid or deliberately lying. Eric at least 6 times claimed Matt said something can come from nothing.
That debate was painful to hear. When you cannot even assess your first point, because it is an assumption you cannot possibly back up, you have to expect that the opponent can assume you are wrong.
It's interesting, when theists criticize Krauss' nothing they expect the philosophical nothing--the nothing that our words are unable to describe. But when they describe nothing, it's nothing PLUS a bunch of celestial baggage. "When there was nothing, there was only a space-less timeless intelligent being."
bionikspoon I just feel like wanting them to stop and answer one simple question: "Can you demonstrate that there is such a thing as "spaceless, timeless" anything?"
What is this little game some apologists do with saying your name over and over? I've heard this a couple times now and they end up sounding like guys who just had a week of sales training.
It would appear that something can come from nothing such as virtual particles in Quantum mechanics. They do not last long but their lack of longevity does not negate their existence.
JOHN MENUIS we can't say they come from nothing. if there are more dimensions or a multiverse they could he created there and leak into our area of space and time. therefore they could come from something and we're unable to see their origin. I'm not being a smartass; just trying to get you to ponder the possibility.
I home schooled my son for 2 years his teacher kicked him out of class because he used the word hegemon and the teacher said that it wasn't a word. He disagreed, the school said he had to apologize so I pulled him out of middle school . He went back to high school and was ahead of the other kids lol
Wow, that was just... embarrassing. I was literally covering my face at times during Eric's call. I mean, I don't consider myself the sharpest knife in the drawer, and even I understood Matt and Tracie's debate-ending point the first time they explained it. I can't believe this guy, an 'experienced debater', did not also understand. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. Or maybe, like Matt said, he was being intellectually dishonest.
Whoh? It DID happen? I would be willing to further liquefy my already-watery brain listening to that. It will be a test of mental fortitude. Can you direct my search towards finding that clip?
RyanCFoster Can't recall, but search here for debate Dillahunty and...Loundesberry? Or whatever his name. Or just first 2 terms and do visual scan. I think thumb shows Matt at pc in his house. Good luck.
Bruce Baker Thank you, Mr. Baker. I found it. You called the pic correctly and the name was Lounsbery... you got me close enough to the target. Much obliged, sir.
Bruce Baker Hahaha. Condolences? Well, not yet. I got about 20 minutes into it, through Eric's intro of his position... but I was at work and work ended, so to be continued... Matt was warming up...
~ Seven years later and I still am smh over "religious" people that still are thinking and criticizing and debating about what consenting adults do in the bedroom. Thank you, Matt and Tracie, for rational thought and this video. Cheers, DAVEDJ ~
By the way, Tracie and Matt, you completely roasted that Eric Lounsbery guy. It's very satisfying to hear him squirm and ooze around the point, trying everything to avoid having to accept that the most straightforward application of logic precludes his very first assumption. Almost as satisfying as if he'd demonstrated enough intellectual honesty to admit it.
I admit that I don't _understand_ how something can come from nothing, but I can't rule it out, either. But, even if I DO except the caller's premise, it doesn't in any way support the existence of the *Abrahamic* God.
I home school my son and am atheist. It is not the only reason, but we did choose this in part because of the lack of secular teaching and harassment by the religious (teachers included) in our local public school. I do not want to condemn the entire school here as there are some wonderful people there, but it was a substantial problem for my son and we are very happy with this alternative. We did find a program that is accredited by our state college, and the options are virtually endless.
@mpatak51 Thanks for the info. I still can't find anywhere to watch/listen to the debate online. I found one UFO site (of all places) where you can purchase it for waaaaay more money than I'm sure it's worth. One review of the debate mentioned that Eric uses the shotgun technique of apologetics, blasting his opponent with so many premises that they can't address them all in the allotted time and then declaring victory. Matt and Tracie were wise to shut him down instantly on his first premise.
I was at the WTAMU debate, and I'll give Matt the vote, although his opponent (and most theists present) didn't seem to get the point. One silly thing that Abdu said--we have inalienable rights (e.g. freedom from slavery), even if they can be taken away. Matt tried to get him to clarify how those rights could be "inalienable," with no luck. It was nice to finally see you in person, Matt.
I really respect you guys for what you do. I was wondering if you had considered having richard dawkins on the show.. have you ever tried contacting him?
Something can't come from nothing... except for an all-powerful, all-knowing, omniscient being that exists outside of time and space. Yeah, that makes sense.
THAT is STILL the coolest show background. Who created it? I wish a large poster of it was being offered. AXP could be making SO much more money on the right merchandise. (Initials alienate)
After all that crap from Eric, Eric was going to assert that his god came from nothing and produced everything from nothing which contradicts his premise that something can't come from nothing. Obviously Eric thinks it can.
For those interested, apparently these are Eric's 7 points, taken from a debate he did with Dan Barker: 1. Something cannot come from nothing. 2. Something exists. 3. Something must be eternal. 4. The universe is not eternal. 5. Whatever is eternal transcends the universe. 6. Whatever it is that is eternal from premise 3, it also has to be omnipotent. (No effect can be greater than its cause.) 7. Whatever is eternal is of supreme intelligence.
I love Tracie... She's very nice and makes good points. Sometimes I really do think people can have a much more pleasent and productive diuscussion if she get's more 'air time', in stead of other like here, Matt. Not that he's bad, but more that Tracie is in the shadow too much.
@Stairc I deliberately avoided any suggestion about 'winning'. I think that votes at the end of a debate are of no use at all, unless you know the opinion of the audience beforehand. Debates are not a useful forum for determining the best argument.
I just want to say thank you guys I for quite some time was pointing out fallacies in the bible but stopped because i was losing alot of friends but after watching your videos i decided that i shall continue to fight the bible (until given adequate proof of gods existence of course)
Eric is 2 minutes in and he's getting spanked from pillar to post with every point he asserts. For him to say previously how he was certain he'd beat Matt in a debate is laughable. He's like a upcoming Top 10 ranked Heavyweight suddenly getting in the ring after mouthing off how he'd batter Sonny Liston and realising very quickly that he's completely out of his depth.
I loved the people in the booth cheering when Matt hang up on that person. Its really interesting that some people are unable to understand basic concepts like this. Reminds me of Shockofgod
Eric is the greatest debater in his own mind.
He thinks he is undefeatable.
And couldn’t get past point 1 of his 7 premises.
When Eric said that his premises were "brainless," he was spot on.
Before this show, when a Christian would ask me "Why don't you believe in God?" I didn't know where to even begin, because there are so many reasons. Now, thanks to TAE, I'm able to explain my point of view and the most crucial points of my argument in an informed and quick manner. Thanks to everyone at TAE!
so eric never manages to prove his first premises which topples all his others! lol
unit 003 yeah Eric’s work is sloppy
I love how Tracie always has a big smile on her face the whole show.
I can't believe Matt put up with that know-it-all Eric for as long as he did...
Awwww poor Eric got his balls kicked off lol
33:58 At this point Eric starts stumbling and bumbling for the rest of the conversation - stymied after his first premise
I really love the way Tracie laughs during these calls.
I have severe disabilities and brain damage and even I could tell where Eric was going wrong....wish I was as pretty as tracie, and as brave as Matt. Have been an atheist for four months now, and it was great to start thinking for myself. Christianity kept me chained in my wheelchair, now I am free to enjoy the life I have instead of wasting it dreaming about the next one. Atheists experience rocks!
I love how the caller tried to get Matt to agree with him by telling him that he was a reasonable intelligent person.
Tracie does'nt get enough of a say when she is on with Matt. She has a lot of good points to make.
Shes the best host/co-host thats ever been on the show.
Some people are so unconcerned with the truth they can't even see past their myths
I love you guys/ladies! You've tought me so much about the laws of logic and critical thinking. Thank you!
Wow! Eric is an insufferable blow-hard. Matt didn't hang up on him soon enough!
If you don't have time to listen to the whole thing, Eric comes on at 21:55. Of course, it may very well be that "something" can come from "nothing", as at the quantum level there is real evidence that quark pairs pop into existence all the time within the vacuum of space. However, we don't actually know that the vacuum of space is actually "nothing".
kragseven Eric = Mark???? Holy Crap. The soap opera just gets weirder and weirder. I dunno, though. Mark had a reedy voice. Eric is very bassy. Don't know that a voice that deep could "lighten up" that much. And there are lots of guesses on these threads that "Joe" is also "Stotch"...or whatever.
So...is this your conjecture? Or is there backup?
Plus...holy crap again. They say give one quick point. He says he has seven...but they're real quick and easy to agree with. He makes his point, has a hard time accepting their objection. But eventually does concede that he understands the logic 101 concept that if I don't accept x is false, I am not necessarily asserting that x is true.
And even then, 10 more minutes showing he doesn't grasp that. He kept asserting that Matt WAS claiming x was true. SO frustrating. THAT is why I had to bail 15 min or so into the debate they finally did.
I have a feeling that people who say “there are no atheist in foxholes have never been in a foxhole”.
During Desert Storm while we were planning for a landing on the Kuwaiti coast, I was in several planning meetings in the wardroom on an LST. I looked at all the photos and maps of the beach head and all the obstacles. Obstacles are anti-tank mines, wire, tank traps, trenches to stop our Amtraks. It looked pretty scary and I wondered if I was going to get off that beach. But the landing was canceled and we ended up landing in Saudi Arabia and traveled north to Kuwait City airport.
Long story short, I never cried out to God begging him to save me.
Tracie Harris is one of the best co-hosts! She is amazing! :D
Your show is great....thanks for everything ..its nice to finally see more people opening their minds...
Matt and Tracie are the perfect duo and are a joy to watch!
Thank you for making the calls into links - very helpful!
Eric is one of the children that Kramer was dominating in the Dojo.
Dominik from Switzerland as the last caller was MUCH needed♥️
Matt is one of my heroes! I love that guy!
And that was the day that Eric found out that he wasn't actually as clever as he thought he was.
Don't think so. Eric Lounsbery has no interest in being questioned. In his "debate" with George Smith, he was allowed to rattle off his seven premises and a bunch of other garbage before Smith could respond. He's a Gish Galloper. That's the problem with standard forensic debate formats; one side can lie their ass off and the other side doesn't have enough time to debunk all of them.
About the Note: I'm a member of FTO in Amarillo and a student at WT. I attended the debate with my Christian daughter. We weren't able to stay and talk because of her late-pregnancy discomfort, but she had a comment she wanted to make to each of the speakers; so she gave Matt and Abdu a copy of the same note. FTO's message board said the beginning of this episode was about the debate. Irony abounds! I laughed and called her to come see her note on TV in Austin! She got a kick out of it. Thanks!
27:40 Matt's face regarding Eric's debate proposition is priceless, it's like he's already thinking about the oncoming slaughter that is coming
Eric the guy who wanted to stroke his ego by debating Matt then have a poll on who did the best.
In a debate where you claim your opponent said something they didn’t, and they correct you. The 1st time is a mistake of misunderstanding, the 2nd ok you are still misunderstanding and it hasn’t sunk in, 3rd time you’re either not listening, stupid or deliberately lying.
Eric at least 6 times claimed Matt said something can come from nothing.
31:23 Matt: "...Jousting back and forth about nothing..."
Little does he know... >.>
Cant wait to watch the debate
Aaah that silence part was amazing :D
The horrible thing is that he probably thought that he won that debate.
That debate was painful to hear. When you cannot even assess your first point, because it is an assumption you cannot possibly back up, you have to expect that the opponent can assume you are wrong.
I love how Eric called in with what he thought was an iron clad argument, but could not even get passed the first point.
@ScarletLetter3a I am glad you liked that. I walk a unique path as an atheist in the military
Eric is very angry...needlessly...
Foolish, overconfident and sorely ignorant.
LOVE IT! A new show with Tracie in it!!!
It's interesting, when theists criticize Krauss' nothing they expect the philosophical nothing--the nothing that our words are unable to describe. But when they describe nothing, it's nothing PLUS a bunch of celestial baggage. "When there was nothing, there was only a space-less timeless intelligent being."
bionikspoon I just feel like wanting them to stop and answer one simple question:
"Can you demonstrate that there is such a thing as "spaceless, timeless" anything?"
YES! My favorite hosts! Haven't watched the show yet but I know it's gonna be good! Time to get comfy!
What is this little game some apologists do with saying your name over and over? I've heard this a couple times now and they end up sounding like guys who just had a week of sales training.
Well done @theatheistexperience , the best show in ages. Laughed my socks of at Eric. Good team in Tracie and Matt.
It would appear that something can come from nothing such as virtual particles in Quantum mechanics. They do not last long but their lack of longevity does not negate their existence.
JOHN MENUIS we can't say they come from nothing. if there are more dimensions or a multiverse they could he created there and leak into our area of space and time. therefore they could come from something and we're unable to see their origin. I'm not being a smartass; just trying to get you to ponder the possibility.
Well done. I really like this.
That 21:51 caller... Thank you Tracie for saying repeatedly the same thing I was yelling at my monitor.
I home schooled my son for 2 years his teacher kicked him out of class because he used the word hegemon and the teacher said that it wasn't a word. He disagreed, the school said he had to apologize so I pulled him out of middle school . He went back to high school and was ahead of the other kids lol
Great job parent 👍
Hope you, your son and family are doing well 😊
That “i wanna debate” guy got intellectually spanked with a 2-ton pizza paddle.
Great show! Best one in a long time.
I've noticed that Christian apologists HAVE
to be dishonest.
I liked that during the long pause, even the crew started yelling "Hello?!"
Matt and Tracie, my favorite host combo.
Aww this reminds me of the brief period of time that Eric Lounsbery was relevant.
Wow, that was just... embarrassing. I was literally covering my face at times during Eric's call. I mean, I don't consider myself the sharpest knife in the drawer, and even I understood Matt and Tracie's debate-ending point the first time they explained it. I can't believe this guy, an 'experienced debater', did not also understand. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. Or maybe, like Matt said, he was being intellectually dishonest.
The intro theme song is great, Thomas Best - perfectly fitting the show's overall message.
42:42 Matt´s subtile humor is very funny
OK it was frustrating but it was very cool indeed... hat's off to Matt and Tracie!! Good points!
Eric did get his debate with Matt. I watched a chunk of it. Had to bail. Brain ache. But no, Eric didn't clean his clock.
Whoh? It DID happen? I would be willing to further liquefy my already-watery brain listening to that. It will be a test of mental fortitude. Can you direct my search towards finding that clip?
RyanCFoster Can't recall, but search here for debate Dillahunty and...Loundesberry? Or whatever his name. Or just first 2 terms and do visual scan. I think thumb shows Matt at pc in his house. Good luck.
Bruce Baker Thank you, Mr. Baker. I found it. You called the pic correctly and the name was Lounsbery... you got me close enough to the target. Much obliged, sir.
RyanCFoster You're ...welcome? Or...my condolences? Did you make it thru? How bad was it? On a scale of -10 to harmonica.
Bruce Baker Hahaha. Condolences? Well, not yet. I got about 20 minutes into it, through Eric's intro of his position... but I was at work and work ended, so to be continued... Matt was warming up...
Man, I would've LOVED to have Jeff Dee be there for Eric's call. Jeff would've gone ballistic.
~ Seven years later and I still am smh over "religious" people that still are thinking and criticizing and debating about what consenting adults do in the bedroom. Thank you, Matt and Tracie, for rational thought and this video. Cheers, DAVEDJ ~
39:30 - That is pure pwnage right there... Love you Tracie!
lol ten seconds of dead air from the caller
@37:10
Tracie with the mic drop. Nice.
cause she's a freakin badass
By the way, Tracie and Matt, you completely roasted that Eric Lounsbery guy. It's very satisfying to hear him squirm and ooze around the point, trying everything to avoid having to accept that the most straightforward application of logic precludes his very first assumption. Almost as satisfying as if he'd demonstrated enough intellectual honesty to admit it.
Great show. Well done matt
I seriously cried while listening to the second caller.
RJ, what a breath of fresh air after Eric's call.
THIS WAS FN GREAT...... LOL Matt and Tracy made my night.. I wish that call was another hour.
I admit that I don't _understand_ how something can come from nothing, but I can't rule it out, either. But, even if I DO except the caller's premise, it doesn't in any way support the existence of the *Abrahamic* God.
The only people who say that something can come from nothing are theists. Their gods created everything out of nothing.
That was the most entertaining thing I have seen in ages!
That guy got his ass handed to him sooooo bad.
@Morkindie So true. He doesn't get flustered, he gets focused.
i've seen the "eric" call seven times now. i wish this show was longer!
An excellent episode.
I home school my son and am atheist. It is not the only reason, but we did choose this in part because of the lack of secular teaching and harassment by the religious (teachers included) in our local public school. I do not want to condemn the entire school here as there are some wonderful people there, but it was a substantial problem for my son and we are very happy with this alternative. We did find a program that is accredited by our state college, and the options are virtually endless.
So ladies and gentlemen, shall we take a vote to see who won the mini-debate?
@mpatak51 Thanks for the info. I still can't find anywhere to watch/listen to the debate online. I found one UFO site (of all places) where you can purchase it for waaaaay more money than I'm sure it's worth.
One review of the debate mentioned that Eric uses the shotgun technique of apologetics, blasting his opponent with so many premises that they can't address them all in the allotted time and then declaring victory. Matt and Tracie were wise to shut him down instantly on his first premise.
I was at the WTAMU debate, and I'll give Matt the vote, although his opponent (and most theists present) didn't seem to get the point. One silly thing that Abdu said--we have inalienable rights (e.g. freedom from slavery), even if they can be taken away. Matt tried to get him to clarify how those rights could be "inalienable," with no luck.
It was nice to finally see you in person, Matt.
I really respect you guys for what you do. I was wondering if you had considered having richard dawkins on the show.. have you ever tried contacting him?
Ah yes, that's what I meant. It's been awhile since my astronomy course, so I couldn't remember the proper term for what I was talking about. Thanks!
Something can't come from nothing... except for an all-powerful, all-knowing, omniscient being that exists outside of time and space. Yeah, that makes sense.
"LETS GO AHEAD AND DO THIS, MATT." Flexing like he has a fucking argument when his first premise is nonsense
When someone says "I'll pray for you", RUN!!!!
It's called projection, ya'all.
Eric is right about "brainless".
THAT is STILL the coolest show background. Who created it? I wish a large poster of it was being offered. AXP could be making SO much more money on the right merchandise. (Initials alienate)
Silent moments are deafening... what are we even talking about indeed tracie!
Matt's a slick guy.. he can debate any one and simply destroy them
Matt's concepts are brilliant because they neutralize age old arguments so quickly.
@Evirthewarrior thank you for your service, sir/maam
After all that crap from Eric, Eric was going to assert that his god came from nothing and produced everything from nothing which contradicts his premise that something can't come from nothing. Obviously Eric thinks it can.
when somebody says, "hey, I'll pray for you" say, "hey, I'll reason or you"
For those interested, apparently these are Eric's 7 points, taken from a debate he did with Dan Barker:
1. Something cannot come from nothing.
2. Something exists.
3. Something must be eternal.
4. The universe is not eternal.
5. Whatever is eternal transcends the universe.
6. Whatever it is that is eternal from premise 3, it also has to be omnipotent. (No effect can be greater than its cause.)
7. Whatever is eternal is of supreme intelligence.
Great vid. I love to hear the circular reasoning of religious people. Entertaining to the max.
If someone says "I'll pray for you", I respond with "You do that, I'll think for both of us..."
Tracie=beautiful and intellectual, matt=honest and real, I really respect you guys, thank you for your information...namaste
I love Tracie... She's very nice and makes good points.
Sometimes I really do think people can have a much more pleasent and productive diuscussion if she get's more 'air time', in stead of other like here, Matt. Not that he's bad, but more that Tracie is in the shadow too much.
@Stairc I deliberately avoided any suggestion about 'winning'. I think that votes at the end of a debate are of no use at all, unless you know the opinion of the audience beforehand. Debates are not a useful forum for determining the best argument.
I just want to say thank you guys I for quite some time was pointing out fallacies in the bible but stopped because i was losing alot of friends but after watching your videos i decided that i shall continue to fight the bible (until given adequate proof of gods existence of course)
this was a good show
Eric is 2 minutes in and he's getting spanked from pillar to post with every point he asserts. For him to say previously how he was certain he'd beat Matt in a debate is laughable. He's like a upcoming Top 10 ranked Heavyweight suddenly getting in the ring after mouthing off how he'd batter Sonny Liston and realising very quickly that he's completely out of his depth.
I loved the people in the booth cheering when Matt hang up on that person. Its really interesting that some people are unable to understand basic concepts like this. Reminds me of Shockofgod
Very entertaining episode :)
that hour went quickly.
Those silences were painful. Matt wins. Looking forward to Eric and Matt debating in the future :)