КОМЕНТАРІ •

  • @jahrta
    @jahrta 3 роки тому +29

    54:27 Martin has to be one of the most underrated cohosts in the history of TAE. I miss the guy

  • @apinakapina
    @apinakapina 8 років тому +70

    Maybe I'm a bad person, but I love how Martin basically called that norwegian dude an idiot.

    • @ryanlahart534
      @ryanlahart534 7 років тому +11

      apinakapina I think Martin is one of the unsung intellectuals of the AE.

    • @Brammy007a
      @Brammy007a 4 роки тому +2

      Matt from Oslo called in again and again...... he never got any less idiotic

    • @moodyrick8503
      @moodyrick8503 3 роки тому +1

      With a complete stranger it is more logical to call someone's ideas idiotic rather than call them an idiot.
      Without further info you can't access someone's personal life to determine their overall intelligence.
      But I sometimes get the urge to do this as well, so I completely understand. (an explanation, not an excuse)

    • @hawt_fiya
      @hawt_fiya Рік тому +1

      The way he did it was hilarious!

  • @Lrr_Of_Omikron
    @Lrr_Of_Omikron 2 роки тому +6

    Hearing Matt talk about how we're gonna have an issue with identity in the future was spot on. This man is on top of his s#*it.

  • @Galahadfairlight
    @Galahadfairlight 12 років тому +6

    its not just an argument of increduality, its an argument from "I can't be assed to wait for the right answer, so i'll just settle for this answer", irrespective whether its true or not!

  • @Multi1628
    @Multi1628 5 років тому +18

    ~ Seven years later (2019), and the mindset of callers still makes me shudder.
    Much work still needs to be done to promulgate truth, so, TAE keep up the great work
    Cheers, DAVEDJ ~ many CHEERS...

  • @Sturmdodo
    @Sturmdodo 12 років тому +19

    "It has no reason to look like a wolf..."
    This sentence just made my day xD

    • @nixxyhasthoughts
      @nixxyhasthoughts 3 роки тому +3

      And no other wolf like creatures in Australia. As an Aussie, I’d like to introduce him to the native dingo.

    • @jahrta
      @jahrta 3 роки тому +2

      @@nixxyhasthoughts I'd like to slather him in barbecue sauce and introduce him to an entire pack

  • @domiro8156
    @domiro8156 2 роки тому +6

    That was a tremendously good show... possibly even the best... and one I don't remember having seen before!!! Martin and Matt were a super duo/duet here! Thank you for posting it.

  • @DeathByFail
    @DeathByFail 10 років тому +48

    i die everytime the people in the background laugh

    • @ralfhaggstrom9862
      @ralfhaggstrom9862 5 років тому +1

      And I feel REVIVED ...............

    • @LubaFan
      @LubaFan 5 років тому +5

      "I'm literally dead." Argument from grammatical fallacy. LOL

    • @FinneousPJ1
      @FinneousPJ1 4 роки тому +1

      Are you jesus

  • @K-A5
    @K-A5 11 років тому +16

    lmao
    "I like Oreos!"
    "Nothing gay about that."
    "That Oreo's totally 69-ing, look!"
    This was the funniest show I've seen so far. I like the Matt and Martin pairing.

  • @seans4893
    @seans4893 3 роки тому +1

    “You don’t want to get into the position where you put your ignorance on a alter and call it god”. a great way of expressing argument from ignorance.

  • @dogless10
    @dogless10 9 років тому +19

    One of the better AE shows I've seen lately. I want an Oreo!

  • @LubaFan
    @LubaFan 5 років тому +3

    Anyone who criticizes Matt for talking too much and never letting his co-hosts get a word in edgewise should take an important lesson from this episode: send the co-host some snacks.

  • @JayJay-two
    @JayJay-two 3 роки тому +6

    Martin: "no philosophical tree shrews" brilliant 😂🤣😂🤣

  • @the-trustees
    @the-trustees 2 роки тому +2

    Take a drink every time Andrew says "Well...". Make sure you have a LOT of alcohol. 🤪

  • @vitalsfading
    @vitalsfading 12 років тому +5

    you gotta love the chuckles in the background

  • @OmicronIII
    @OmicronIII 12 років тому +1

    "Literacy" doesn't apply to only being able to read. On a broader scope, it means critical thinking. Very few Americans are capable of this. I work in a corporate world, and I see proof of this all the time. It amazes me that our businesses still survive due to this.

  • @BluePhoenix_
    @BluePhoenix_ 4 роки тому +3

    I think Matt(from Oslo) wanted to save his believes, if his doubts about it are true and he thought he could just call and tell himself, that he did a good job proving creationism. So he could keep believing.

  • @geezerbill
    @geezerbill 12 років тому +1

    I can't remember an episode that had more laughs coming from the crew! Must be the Oreos. And it's funny how that end-of-show beep was oddly matched over what was probably a not-so-flattering noun.

  • @looseendsful
    @looseendsful 12 років тому +6

    "....if I push this button I get the shit shocked out of me!" That made me laugh...

  • @manXxon
    @manXxon 12 років тому +4

    Newly subscriber to this channel, and loving every bit. Love you guys from Denmark

  • @LeoTheLion1679
    @LeoTheLion1679 5 років тому +11

    39:25 still one of my favorite moments on the show.

  • @BottleConcreteBlond
    @BottleConcreteBlond 12 років тому +2

    “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
    ― Delos Banning McKown

  • @programakigo
    @programakigo 11 років тому +10

    1) Love the show.
    2) You bastards, I want cookies now.

  • @twstf8905
    @twstf8905 4 роки тому +3

    These "Creationists" always seem to fail to understand that it's primarily the isolated species, like on ISLAND continents, separated from each other and from the larger connected contexts that actually went further towards PROVING evolution, changes in species, etc., rather than showing evidence of some "designer."
    It was Darwin's study of the variety between separated populations of similar species on ISLAND archipelagos, like the Galapagos chain and the South Pacific islands around Tasmania, New Zealand and Australia, that gave him his greatest scientific breakthroughs in his observations.
    A set of Turtles isolated on ONE particular island in relation to the population on the surrounding islands is what demonstrated speciation occurrences in the past.
    The fact that Marsupials, and other seemingly strange creatures on the South Pacific islands around Australia also more clearly demonstrated the effects of huge change over long periods of time in the extreme isolated context.
    It was the best "proof" for the evolutionary Theory that existed, up to that point.
    And is why there is a "Darwin" Australia, today.
    These isolated island contexts were crucial to showing Darwin, and his peers, were on the right track. And, some would argue without that evidence, the entire model would have had a far less stable foundation.

  • @jameswest8280
    @jameswest8280 5 років тому +6

    Could you imagine tuning into a news show, and they're all eating Oreos.

  • @claudiaarjangi4914
    @claudiaarjangi4914 6 місяців тому +2

    The reason that humans CAN think about the universe etc, is that our ancestors passed down the traits that kept them alive.
    Along with the time to use those traits & get the most out of them.
    Luckily for us 🎉,
    they were passed down a bigger ratio frontal cortex, nimble hands, & the hyoid bone, for speech etc.
    All of which allowed discovering fire, for warmth, safety & for cooking, leading to better, wider & easier nutrition
    ( suddenly giving them a huge advantage with the very basics of survival ).
    And then speech.
    Giving the ability to work together, & to share ideas, & learnt info.
    Meaning they no longer had to re-experiment & relearn absolutely EVERYthing they had hard-fought learnt, EVERY generation & EVERY time they moved places or groups etc.
    Then experimenting with agriculture, letting them stay in one place & not have to keep on the move.
    All of these adding togerher to give them more "spare" time to experiment, & learn about the world around them.
    And most important for us today, giving them the time to learn WHY & HOW to think.
    Passing those traits on to us, for us to use, to continue to learn more, & keep up-dating mistaken & outdated beliefs & ideas.
    🤔🌏☮️

  • @truthtrumpsdumbness638
    @truthtrumpsdumbness638 10 років тому +12

    Well done Martin and Matt for addressing this first misguided caller, "head-on" from the outset. He made himself look silly from the start.....and then quoted Kent and Eric Hovind .............good grief! Unless he is just trolling, can anyone be this stupid?
    Beautiful argument re the difference between the God who exists but doesn't manifest in reality and the God who doesn't exist at all - what IS the difference? What a great question

  • @richiejohnson
    @richiejohnson 5 років тому +1

    Great clip. Highly recommended

  • @Wolf.51.50
    @Wolf.51.50 Рік тому +1

    This is one of the best and fun episodes of axp i've ever seen. Martin & Matt, great couple.

  • @LogicAndReason2025
    @LogicAndReason2025 6 років тому +11

    Oslo Matt: Ya' know, ya' know, ya' know, ya' know, ya' know, ya' know, ya' know, .....

    • @domiro8156
      @domiro8156 2 роки тому

      And Matt from Norway knows NOTHING and is a disgrace to his country!!!!

    • @the-trustees
      @the-trustees 2 роки тому

      Andrew's "Well...", "Well...", "Well...", etc. ad nauseum. Can use either caller as a devastating drinking game! 🤪

  • @ultimategamer2669
    @ultimategamer2669 Рік тому +1

    57:48 Perfect reply. Couldn't have said it better myself.

  • @ChristianIce
    @ChristianIce 12 років тому +6

    Your god is an inhuman .. BEEP
    Priceless, considering that it was probably the beep of the ending airtime, perfect timing XD

    • @woshua3143
      @woshua3143 3 роки тому +2

      it’s a sign from god 😂

  • @CyeOutsider
    @CyeOutsider 9 років тому +44

    Lol, love it. Matt from Oslo can't come up with a definition of evolution, but he sure he can prove it false.
    SMH. Nincompoop.

    • @Xargas
      @Xargas 9 років тому +5

      Well, he's from Oslo. That's where you'll find most drug users here in Norway.

    • @ralfhaggstrom9862
      @ralfhaggstrom9862 5 років тому

      Bättre en dram i timmen, än en timme i Drammen ............@@Xargas

  • @Kida001
    @Kida001 12 років тому +2

    How could anyone dislike Matt? He's just telling it like it is. I love it and hope he doesn't let up.

  • @jarodcarnarvon5198
    @jarodcarnarvon5198 3 роки тому +3

    Matt & Martin excessively use the word "magic" to disprove the caller....
    I'll sing/quote the 70s here..... "Ho ho ho it's magic, you know... Never believe it's not so!!"
    LOL

  • @JohnnysCafe_
    @JohnnysCafe_ 6 місяців тому +1

    The Thylacine does not look anything like a tiger, it was simply a native Australian dog that has a few darker lines on its back. Thats all it is or was although some people have said they have seen it recently.

  • @captainstinkyvonpoopberg4925
    @captainstinkyvonpoopberg4925 9 років тому +10

    I love when Matt rants.

  • @godsfear123
    @godsfear123 12 років тому +2

    Matt, me and my friend used to be go hard Christians, it's not our fault we were born into Christian family's, but when I took Biology I had my doubts. So I heard about this show and started watching it and today I'm proud to call myself an Atheist. :D

  • @k.m.3286
    @k.m.3286 4 роки тому +3

    I love love love this show and all the intelligent host.

  • @AMore429
    @AMore429 Рік тому +1

    He might be an immigrant to Norway. I noticed that must nuns I saw at the Vatican where Filipinas.

  • @EmperorGarm
    @EmperorGarm 12 років тому +3

    "...that would be hard."
    Yes, proving things takes work, young man.

  • @theunrepentantatheist24
    @theunrepentantatheist24 Рік тому +1

    Is this Matt from Oslo's first call? I can understand why he turned to abusive prank calling having been totally humiliated.

    • @n.presley917
      @n.presley917 Рік тому +1

      yeah, it was the first time he actually got on the air. got hung up on two weeks ago and called too late last week. making it even more pathetic that he still couldn't make any kind of case.

  • @GrugSmesh
    @GrugSmesh 12 років тому +3

    I love it when the people laugh in the background

  • @tedgrant2
    @tedgrant2 2 роки тому +1

    Why are lies more attractive than the truth ?
    Because the lies promise eternal life after death in the bosom of Abraham.
    The truth doesn't offer anything and is very is very unpleasant indeed.
    Soon, you will vanish like a candle flame in the wind.

  • @nateellenberger6043
    @nateellenberger6043 6 років тому +6

    The last 10 seconds of the show (Matt reading an email) sums it up best!!!! :) Great way to end the show!

  • @Wolf.51.50
    @Wolf.51.50 Рік тому +1

    Funny how an animal like the tasmanian tiger, which actually is an excellent example of convergent evolution, where animals that are not related, or not directly related, end up having very similar aspects due to the same environmental pressure, is brought up by the caller as something that debunks evolution 😂 Dunning-Kruger Is definitely a thing.

  • @mgbo0415
    @mgbo0415 9 років тому +5

    The end tho. Lol. That was Epic! :)

  • @HighStakesDanny
    @HighStakesDanny 4 роки тому +1

    Great episode. Use it to fall asleep lots of days. Matt shines and his co host is one of my favorites. It's crazy how Matt debates dudes with phDs and he wins most of the time.

  • @Sapheiorus
    @Sapheiorus 12 років тому +3

    I love hearing the camera crew laugh!

  • @andretasse1607
    @andretasse1607 6 місяців тому

    24:45 "I just look at my own mind and extrapolate..." THAT'S the problem! Recognize that what's only in your mind can't be reality for someone else!

  • @KuhoinX
    @KuhoinX 10 років тому +18

    so this is the episode where Matt the troll first appeared.

    • @josephcherrie5737
      @josephcherrie5737 10 років тому

      umad?
      If you have anything to say other than meaningless insults, please go ahead.

    • @EvilToaster77
      @EvilToaster77 10 років тому +14

      Joseph Cherrie He's referring to Matt from Oslo, who's a troll who's called in numerous times, occasionally under fake name with a fake voice or accent, who would just insult Matt, present crap arguments or scream loudly before being hung up on. He's not even from Norway and his name isn't Matt, he's from Sweden.

    • @sharmila8357
      @sharmila8357 6 років тому

      EvilToaster I'm curious as to how you know this...

  • @TheLeadStriker
    @TheLeadStriker 12 років тому +1

    at 2:19 i was playing fallout in a creepy village thing when he coughed i almost had a heart attack lol

  • @coz752
    @coz752 11 років тому +3

    This show ended with a well timed bleep, personally I found it hilarious :-D

  • @leojboby
    @leojboby 12 років тому

    i had a question regarding something(atheisty) but for the life of me i cant find a way to contact any of the hosts or co-hosts of this program O-o or maybe even an open forum to discuss general things...

  • @ciaochowbella
    @ciaochowbella 12 років тому +3

    LOVE me some Martin!

  • @pontiva420
    @pontiva420 12 років тому

    i was wondering if anyone had the email adress for the show or matt. the link on the website wasnt working. I'm searching for advice and reading material on explaining atheism and religion to my daughter. If anyone else has any advice feel free

  • @0016danielle
    @0016danielle 12 років тому +5

    It's my first time watching and I LOVE THIS SHOW NOWWW!!

  • @SecondaryHomunculus
    @SecondaryHomunculus 9 місяців тому +1

    Holy shit. Quite literally -- every theist argument in this episode has been repeated in the last year, damn near word for word. They're sure as hell not evolving.

  • @macieyid
    @macieyid 4 роки тому +6

    Gotta love Martin's sense of humor

  • @jesterc.6763
    @jesterc.6763 5 місяців тому +1

    16:15 "I listen to Kent Hovind" therefore he's knowledgeable about evolution. Jesus fucking christ

  • @Crutch456
    @Crutch456 12 років тому

    As time goes on, it's becomes more and more incredible to see how intellectual Matt is. Great speaker, great thought......great mind. He is prepared at every moment. Well done.

  • @craze1701
    @craze1701 12 років тому

    Not an oversimplification at all. I'm perfectly happy with the knowledge that we are what we see, and if we want to be remembered, we need to stand out.

  • @mooniekate
    @mooniekate 12 років тому +1

    Lol. I like to say thank the cosmos. I'm moving into the same building as my mother in law in october, but we've already had the, "You are not getting a key, and this is not an excuse for you to knock on the door," conversation. We have to be clear with her or she'll just do what she wants. I need the change of scenery so I'm committed to making it work. Movin' on up to the north side.

  • @IONAPINKMOXIE
    @IONAPINKMOXIE 4 роки тому +1

    I threw out my crucifix i kept above my bedroom door. It felt good.

  • @MrHollywood1717
    @MrHollywood1717 12 років тому

    Can someone please reply and post me a link for the TAG argument. Ive never heard of it and Matt referances it often...

  • @ShadeOnTheUtube
    @ShadeOnTheUtube 12 років тому

    PS: The movie was named Pinchcliffe Grand Prix in Britain. It was directed by Italian genious Ivo Caprino.
    (didn't even know it apparently was an international success after it was released 1975)

  • @hawt_fiya
    @hawt_fiya Рік тому

    Matt’s frustration with the phones during the Andrew call is 😂😂

  • @tedgrant2
    @tedgrant2 2 роки тому +1

    How did consciousness come to exist ?
    Well, we suppose that a conscious powerful being created consciousness.
    Yeah, but how did the conscious powerful being come to have consciousness ?
    Well, we suppose he has always had consciousness. Convenient, huh !

  • @mechanicraft
    @mechanicraft 12 років тому +1

    Ahh, thanks for the advice, looking forward to visiting. Who knows, I might end up living in Norway (although I only speak English, so that might be a problem) :)

  • @greenzoid2
    @greenzoid2 11 років тому +1

    He thought slavery was ok, gay marriage was not ok, stoning children to death for being disobedient was ok, selling your own daughter(s) as slaves was also ok. But he's a good judge right? So I'll take his word for it and wait to be sent to heaven.

  • @controllerbrain
    @controllerbrain 12 років тому +2

    Martin is one smart mo fo. Took me a while to realise that.

  • @k.m.3286
    @k.m.3286 4 роки тому +2

    Omg they are so funny with the oreos lmao

  • @ShadeOnTheUtube
    @ShadeOnTheUtube 12 років тому

    Forgot to mention, the zoo and adventure park in Kristiansund. If you enjoy geography/geology, i would especially suggest taking a long trip to Dovre, on the way you could stop by the Aukrust museum in Alvdal dedicated to a national figure within comedic writing, illustration, and the producer of the historic Norwegian stop-motion movie "Flåklypa grand prix". Pretty sure i saw english captions for tourism when i was there.
    Anyway, there's very little fundamentalist activity in Norway. ;)

  • @digitalblasphemy1100
    @digitalblasphemy1100 12 років тому

    yes it is. he says he doesnt think he will ever convince the person on the phone but for those listening who may be on the fence may be. its not something that he has come out and said "my plan" but practically speaking when asked that question, i have heard on several shows the explanation i gave.

  • @mooniekate
    @mooniekate 12 років тому

    That's understandable. There are some people that I probably will never be able to talk about it with. My parents know. My dad's an agnostic atheist, although it wasn't until a couple of years ago that he actually put it in words, only because I straight-out asked him what he believed in. My mom is 'spiritual'. She's not christian, but she says that she 'prays all the time'. I asked her if it ever worked and she didn't answer me, which means no. They're divorced and married to other people now.

  • @imstoned6
    @imstoned6 12 років тому +2

    "and i love oreos"
    ".....nothin gay about that"

  • @Nocturnalux
    @Nocturnalux 12 років тому

    I know what you mean. I'm not Norwegian myself but I've visited the country many a time (my significant other at the time was from Norway) and it is indeed very secular and also a wonderful place.

  • @howjamieson123
    @howjamieson123 12 років тому

    Watch some of the shows from a few years ago, they've come a long way! (eg having to hold the mic etc)

  • @ikkoikki
    @ikkoikki 12 років тому

    Could we have a link to your source on this data, or is it just personal experience?

  • @senortonyful
    @senortonyful 12 років тому

    Does anyone know what the tattoo is on Matt's arm? It's been bothering me that I can't see it.

  • @Boyntonstu
    @Boyntonstu 12 років тому

    Define God is the second question I would ask.
    Define "Creation" is my first question.
    Using the "Analogy of Design" argument, I would like to know where is the Home Depot in the Sky located in which God purchased the materials to "Create" the universe.

  • @JournalDrums
    @JournalDrums 11 років тому +1

    I love the send-off for this Ep

  • @Bleatmop
    @Bleatmop 12 років тому

    I love how, no matter how much the theists deny it at the beginning of any argument for god, every argument ever always boils down to faith. Every single time. You just have to keep asking how they know these things and eventually they all get angry and either hang up (or get hung up upon) or admit that faith covers the gaps in their knowledge.

  • @Bleatmop
    @Bleatmop 12 років тому +2

    36:00 Q. How do you know? A. Through a rational argument.
    Anyone else think this guy is a Ray Comfort follower? Sounds a lot like Ray Comfort saying "Common Sense" to that question.

  • @EmperorZ19
    @EmperorZ19 12 років тому

    Although Matt is using an argument from ignorance, and thus a further explanation of Thylacine is not necessarily needed, I wish they'd gone further and explained that two creatures can look similar without actually being closely related. It's called convergent evolution, where two species can develop similar features because they share a similar niche within their own environments.

  • @marvingardens
    @marvingardens 12 років тому

    That's like saying if you refer to the 5th day of the week as Thursday you must worship Thur and Odin.

  • @delataylor
    @delataylor 12 років тому

    (cont.) I will be kind enough to answer your question however:
    "And ofc, many many many animals have become extinct, derp, doesen't disprove creation, does it?"
    If the claim is that an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect god, created all life on Earth (as the claim usually goes), then yes, it does.

  • @TJTownsend
    @TJTownsend 12 років тому

    The caller at the end admitted he was emotionally priming himself to experience something to confirm what he was trying to believe. I wish the entire episode was about that one point.

  • @lfzadra
    @lfzadra 12 років тому

    I´m an atheist too, and I´m not bashing the show, I think it´s fantastic. It´s really cool to hear that it helped you to get rid of religion. I´m just pointing that the show would lose his meaning in a religion free world, or in a world where atheism is the default and dominant worldview. This is not different to say that medicine would lose its meaning in a world where nobody gets sick and live forever healthy.

  • @TheNerdProblems
    @TheNerdProblems 12 років тому +1

    pure awesomeness right there my friend.

  • @VincentTheBlack777
    @VincentTheBlack777 11 років тому +2

    "have an oreo my sun"
    that was sweet ha :)

  • @shit21100
    @shit21100 12 років тому

    Coinciding with the papyri discoveries, an abundance of other manuscripts came to light (over 24,000 copies of early New Testament manuscripts are known to be in existence today). The historian Luke wrote of "authentic evidence" concerning the resurrection. Sir William Ramsay, who spent 15 years attempting to undermine Luke credentials as a historian,

  • @urcorrect
    @urcorrect 12 років тому

    You did reply to it, but unless you posted a second reply to that particular comment, you did not address its content. I'll check the 'see all' link in case I missed any correspondence. If you want to use dutch, I could try running your future comments through a translating application, but from my experience your use of English is quite honestly superior to most natives'.

  • @daddyleon
    @daddyleon 12 років тому

    Oh okay, most people I know that use the term 'Earthlings' are familiar with that 'documentary'. idk how up to date it is, but it does look a bit shocking.

  • @mooniekate
    @mooniekate 12 років тому

    I wouldn't want to replace any of them. They are all individuals that add to the conversation. I think that they need more atheist callers to reassure them that even if they didn't get through to people like Matt from Oslo, there are people listening who agree with them. They all need a boost after so many callers who don't know what they're talking about. I say we mail them in all sorts of bags of oreos to remind them how much we appreciate their hard work.

  • @martinwood146
    @martinwood146 12 років тому

    "What reason do you have to believe that the universe and life came into existence on its own?"
    1) the fact that the universe and life appeared
    2) the fact that life appeared around 3.5 billion years ago
    3) Because there is no evidence that it happened any other way than by natural (as yet undiscovered) process.
    If we are to believe that there is a supernatural being responsible for all this then we require positive evidence for the existence of such a being. Otherwise its make believe

  • @MMDelta9
    @MMDelta9 11 років тому +1

    I lost my shit laughing at the opening segment. Oh balls. That was priceless.

  • @JimStonebridge
    @JimStonebridge 11 років тому

    The Tasmanian Tiger was a marsupial and the dingo is a placental mammal and hence they are only distantly related. The reason they have a similar body shape is because they fill similar environmental niche. In other words this is an example of convergent evolution.

  • @stuchly1
    @stuchly1 12 років тому

    Or "How come, like... Planets are round?" I'm not kidding you! XD

  • @enlighteneveryone
    @enlighteneveryone 12 років тому

    (4)Then you're open to think:Could Einstein's perception actually be right?His calculations were were from "God to creation" rather than calculating "from creation to figuring the universe".And these calculations in his view as God helped our understanding of the universe.
    Not trying to give you the idea that this is an excuse to say being a believer is more idealistic than being a non-believer, but you have to admit, what math we use now was perfected by someone who viewed the universe as God.