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@@kevinsearcey686 So sorry for the late reply. I trust all is well by now. Please let me know what was found to be wrong with the car so we can continue to discuss. Cheers.

Yes, I agree however LiFe at this price point did not seem to offer quality packaging. I do think that would potentially be a better solution, the simplest for most people is an off-the-shelf solution whilst still encompassing a move toward deep cycle rather than cranking. I'm happy to be proven wrong and that good quality low cost yet robust LiFe packages are now a thing.

Ha! Yes you got it. There was some talk on the forums about a different Bunnings box but the end result was it just did not fit very well. Reason is, they all tried an east-west fit. This one is North-south with the addition of some firm foam strips. The final mod was to shave the rear lip of the lid, so that one just has to lift the front of the lid's lip and pull forward and there it is! Ok, I'll do a video.

Thanks for that. It looks like a worthwhile addition.

Well, that explains why I had to use a sizable screwdriver to open the clamps. Mind you, they were very secure after that! Shims were fitted by Travis at the store, so maybe he saw it a bit either way and erred on the safe side. I'll pass this on to him for future reference. Cheers, Sly.

That's great to hear. The lower charging volts compared to what a Lithium would normally use might end up with a less than fully charged battery. But still would offer great performance especially in our situation. It will be interesting to hear how long a lifespan this will give you as there are various opinions on this. Personally, I think the doubts come from situations where cranking is required, so I think you've got a good setup. Did you find one at a good price or did you go for one of the $$$$$$ units?

I think I would also go the LFP route due to more charging cycles. What brand and model number did you use?

I've now got the Battery Monitor Graphs of the new battery in several scenarios. Now to put it all together - video coming, thanks.

Great idea.

6A is better for charging the 12V (more time spent charging) but less efficient, the electronics will take a few hundred watts while charging regardless of the rate.

As far as I know, it is not a good idea to link two batteries like this in a car unless each is isolated via some sort of diode bridge or BMS. It will work great for a while, maybe even a long time however, as one battery loses more capacity than the other, it will draw a charge from its mate, or in other words, as one battery ages, or develops faulty cells, it will reduce capacity of both batteries. My recommendation is to install a deep cycle or hybrid battery. A video is coming on this where I show exactly how to install the right battery.

Hi, yes that would be no problem conceptually. Unfortunately the terminal post configuration and the way the battery mounts might limit your options. Please check those details with a battery specialist, and when you find the right battery, please let me know. We might have better luck with a ' hybrid' battery. That's one that can handle a reasonably deep discharge yet still perform as a cranker.

@@alfredslywa Thanks,

Yes, in the early days charging the Atto 3 with the Zappi2. I hope I remember the details correctly but as I believe it happened when relying just on the Zappi to provide the scheduling. At a hunch, I changed it around so the car had a charging window set and the Zappi was simply providing the power at whatever mode I chose (eco, eco+ or fast). The Zappi happily adjusts the output according to the available solar power or, if set to eco+ will actually halt the charge if not enough energy is available. It's been working like this to this day with no issues at all. And this is despite what I've read that some Atto owners have unreliable smart-charging results with their cars failing to either start or stop at the scheduled times. I repeat, I have absolutely no issues like that as of Jan 2024 on my 22 model Atto 3. I hope this helps you as a smart solar aware charger makes a lot of sense so I hope you to get to use it as intended. Cheers, Sly

Hi, The 12v battery needs to be in fair condition to start the car. After that, the 12v battery will receive a charge from the main traction battery. This is what happens when you start the Air Conditioning remotely. The car is started. In fact, if you unlock the car and get inside, you will be able to drive it away. So, starting the A/C is not likely to have caused your bad battery it may already have been in poor condition for other reasons (including the cold).

Hi, sorry for the late reply as this info is now widely known ... Yes, insertion of the VtoL adaptor Will kick off a trickle charge.

@@alfredslywa Thanks😀

Hi, Sorry for the late reply but I do have an answer for you. A little while ago I found a video of a chap testing the true load capacity of the VtoL adapter. He set up an oscilloscope and watched the quality of the 'squared' wave deteriorate as the load increased. Ultimately he found the wave squared off too much after 10 amps or 2400 watts to be much good for anything but resistive loads. I'll have a look to see if I can find that video and will post the link here. Cheers.

Hi, sorry for the late reply as this info is now widely known ... Yes, insertion of the VtoL adaptor Will kick off a trickle charge. Nifty!

Hi, Sorry for the late reply, but the answer is the classic yes And no. Yes, the Zappi contains the metering circuitry with inputs for two or three current sensing coils or transformers. You would have to check the specs for the latest model but I think they can take 3 circuits. This would allow monitoring of your generated solar, your flow to/ from the grid and your home's consumption. All these elements are shown on a lovely app on your phone. The Zappi is the centre of our power management when I had originally thought it would be our solar inverter. I did have to purchase a couple of extra CT's to monitor everything but it's well worth it. The new model may already include these. There are cheaper solar aware chargers but I have not seen any that can provide the comprehensive management like the Zappi.

I see BYD as a tidal wave. You may be surprised where they'll turn up. Good Luck.

So, what have you done about that? Sounds like your battery is a dud or you've got something loading it down more that it can recover. .The very least I would recommend is put a battery monitor on your battery so you'll be able to see if it's trickle charging, what your voltage is at various times and what is loading your battery.

@@evtorque I've rang the dealer to get the battery replaced. It's a warranty job. From my personal perspective, I shouldn't have to buy any gadgets to monitor a vehicle in 2023. I do though enjoy the videos of your investigation.

@@evtorque I'm interested also if you have monitored the battery when the charge cable is attached and not attached and seen any evidence that the idle charge cable is causing anything different. What I am thinking is that if the cable is creating a load the internal charge should be kicked on more frequently? Also as another test... if you set the vehicle charge schedule on the vehicle display to only charge between certain times, does the voltage drop change get altered, ie does making the car responsible for the charging, effectively isolate any leakage from the idle car charging cable?

@@tonykuiper9127 Thanks Tony for your kind support. We have other instruments in our vehicles so we can monitor the health or level of items, even fuel gauges is an example. I take your point that perhaps you shouldn't have to do that but ... if it helps you find a problem that the dealer, service agent or yourself can get on top of early, why not? BTW, more videos will be coming, maybe even with some guests.

@@tonykuiper9127 I had done some of the tests you mention before and after updates. The results became rather muddied with all the variances in conditions that applied at various times. Prior the main update, leaving a EVSE cable plugged in but NOT supplying a charge was a real problem. This was happening overnight as my Zappi charger was obviously not supplied with solar energy. To cut a long story short, the muddying happened due to the different way the two parties negotiated before and after the update. I only found this out of course some time after the update. I found I HAD to invoke scheduled charging and let Llewellyn be the boss. In this way, the Zappi actually tells me it's charging but no current is flowing during the non-charging period. I have not seen any problem with this. In fact I have seen very long periods of 'trickle' charging for most of the evenings now. I will however take your suggestion to heart and do another round of tests to clean up the results. Cheers.

We'll, that sounds interesting. May I ask what this monitor is for? Generally monitors don't pull much current nowadays but I would still install a Bluetooth battery monitor to keep an eye on the health and charge of the 12 v battery. The charging cycle has evolved and there appears to be various long trickle charge periods so should be ok. My suggestion would be to fit a low voltage cut off switch. These are available as an accessory for some dash cams.

My 7kw EVSE is on a 32 amp circuit breaker. What do you see as a problem?

@@evtorque at 4:15 you talk about blowing a fuse. I would not even plug a EVSE into a circuit if I new that it was only protected by a fuse.

@@ianfranzke3191 Oh, OK. I see what you are saying. Yes, that would be preferred but you won't always know if a circuit is protected by a fuse or a circuit breaker. You may find yourself with little alternative other than using a fused circuit. What I was getting at is (if you aren't sure how the circuit is protected or what other items are loading that circuit) it is safer and more convenient to set your EVSE to a lower current setting than the maximum. Sure, if you know your EVSE is the ONLY device on the circuit and you know the quality of the wiring, go for the max. That's just not likely to be the best option when you are visiting an AirBnB.

@@evtorque I don't think you are allowed to rent out a house that doesn't have RCD fitted.

@@ianfranzke3191 Now I see what you ere getting at. You hadn't mentioned the RCD earlier, just the fuse. You are probably right, but I'm simply trying to point out that you won't always know the health or the loading of the circuit you are using so flexibility in the settings is the key. Cheers & thanks for the input.

Thanks for the feedback. We've got 6.6kw of panels which is the biggest we're allowed on single phase. 17 Q.Maxx 370w panels feeding a Huawei 5kw Hybrid Inverter. This has so far proven more than adequate to keep Llewellyn (our Atto 3) charged up near or at 100%. Our Zappi was installed by a specialist EV Charger installer and was well worth the investment as he improved on the original design so that the Zappi is now 'Control Central'. His company name is: "Electric Vehicle Charging Installations" based in North Beach, contact is Ryan Gill Ph: 0491 604 384. Solar System by Westsun in Wangara, 93039810 Very Pro outfit and can talk Batteries too. Cheers. ps. I get no kick-back from these referrals.

At the time, I did have a very small load connected but I was intending to test again with just the plug connected. As I mentioned in the video, anyone could give it a try and see what happens (please let me know). I can check tomorrow morning and let you you know in any case. Cheers.

I will plug it in, but don’t know what to look for.

Just did the experiment. All you have to do is plug it in. Video following soon. Cheers.

Leave the car on. You can enjoy multimedia as well as the air conditioning (personally, I have some videos loaded onto a USB stick for these very times) The only problem is the Daytime Running lights will be on. It is possible to start the car without the DRL's but only for a pre-configured amount of time. I think the max is 30 minutes before you would have to re-start. Anyway, the main point is that if the car is on, the 12v battery will be nicely trickle-charged. Cheers.

No, all is good with a surprisingly long BT range. I use an old phone as my monitor.

Hi, are you asking if the EV6 is better than the Outlander? Two very different use cases but in general I would say yes, even if only that the EV6 is a full Battery Electric car whilst the Outlander additionally has an internal combustion engine with only a tiny battery only range. For what it is, the Outlander performed well.

@@evtorque good videos and really appreciate your reply . Just between ev6 and Byd , which one is better

@@willsonwang4713 I don't mean to dodge the question but the criteria would be important. Best car regardless of cost; I would suggest the EV6. Best value and best availability; that would be the Atto 3 ATM. Style wise, one could also look at the MG4 although still the Atto 3 has the features. If performance is king; EV6. Cheers.

I think the Outlander is a great gateway vehicle for anyone curious about adopting EVs. Sounds like you agree. I envy you with your EV6. Have fun.

@@evtorque Exactly, after a taste of the EV world with the Outlander...no more ICE for me !!!

Thanks for the feedback. I cant believe I missed that bad editing stuff-up. It's re-rendering now. Yep, the difference now is that we have a 12v system that is not just an afterthought. Now it's become a positive aspect of the vehicle. The reality is that most people just won't know (or even care) unless things go wrong. Hopefully we have helped that this won't happen anymore.

@@evtorque you’re right ! I was starting to have issues with my Mazda cx3 battery … morning drive to and from dog park and limited long runs … 12 v used to need an extra kick with the charger now and then . With the guaranteed 2 hour charge after each drive the atto is the opposite … very impressed

The battery monitor I'm using is called the Ultimate9 BM & purchased at a Auto Pro shop. It and similar bluetooth models are available online. This model has battery leads that can connect directly to the battery and the unit itself tucks away into the fabric of the battery cover. I don't receive any kick-backs for mentioning this product. Cheers.

@@evtorque Thanks

​@@evtorquewon't there be a drain by the battery monitor, so the curve one see may also include the battery monitor slowly draining the 12V battery? Not discounting ECU inquiring other car status or key FOB as well

I can't comment on the 20k servicing you mentioned but it's very interesting, thanks for bringing it up. The name 'Prim eWest' refers to the shopping centre ownership. The network operator is ChargeFox. Seems I always need to try twice before charging starts but ok thereafter. Cheers.

most are in the range of 45-65Cents per kw if you can find the Tesla destination chargers then they are free to charge but obviously much slower and some i.e. gen2 model are or can be for Tesla only

@@waynes9163 Thanks for that. The reason I made this little video was that, at the time some people were saying that DC charging had been affected by a recent software update. AC charging was not a concern. I wanted to show that DC charging worked OK.

@@waynes9163 Here in Canada, province of Ontario, electricity cost is 2.4 cents/kWH from 11 PM - 7 AM. What would that cost to charge up your ATTO3?

Thanks for this feedback and info. Good on you for installing a battery monitor. Almost all EV models have had similar reports so being aware of the battery condition means you can be pro-active in getting it checked BEFORE you get into a tight spot. What you've described is similar to what I had seen prior to the recent Atto 3 software updates. Please make sure your software is current. The 2 hour cycle however does sound like you are post-update so as you've suggested your battery may be on the low-side. 10.9v is low-ish but not too low to start the car. Charging at 13.8v is just the beginning. If you start with a low charge, you'll have to charge up for longer (sorry for the egg-sucking lesson). Also, do you have anything that might be loading the battery more than standard such as a Dash-cam in parking mode? Right now, my car is sitting at 12.6v after 19 hrs idle since our last drive. I'm presently testing the effect of having the BYD granny plugged in but not turned on. The video will also compare the previous graphs from before the software updates. If you'd like to share your graphs, please post a screenshot and send me the link within these comments. A site like imgr.com works well or Google Photos. I am not on Facebook but am on the Whirlpool Forums as SlyFred. I'm active on the BYD General Discussion thread here: forums.whirlpool.net.au/thread/9kpyqxml Cheers.

This sounds great in theory but in practice there are a few issues. First of all, the power outlets in the home are of course wired directly to the fuse box. To introduce the power from the car, we would need to present it to the same outlets via a set of switchgear. Alternatively an extension and power board can be run from the garage but all the devices that I'd want to run on the car's power would have to be disconnected and plugged into that power board. Then returned to the grid-connected ports every time the car was used. These systems are available however. In the USA, Ford's electric pickup truck, the F150 Lightning comes with this system of switchgear as an option to allow for use in a black-out. Various manufactures are researching Vehicle-to-Home systems but at present they are not readily available for retro fit/use with existing vehicles AFAIK. I have however recently used the car to support medical equipment during a black-out. Worked a treat! Cheers.

Hi & thanks for the thumbs-up. Are you saying you would like to see a video showing the range?

Where do you think Tesla chargers are made?

Hi, thanks for the thumbs-up. I'll let you know as soon as I can test that out. The Outlander is gone now but the Atto 3 will make a fine test-bed for this. Just used a 10 amp outlet at an AirB'nB over the last couple of days without an extension cord getting 8.9 amps (measured at the granny) into the Atto 3. Sound like around 2.1kw but at the car it was closer to 1.8kw. We'll see about the 15 amp connection soon. Thanks again.

@@evtorque our Atto should be delivered in late April hopefully, and I have moved my 15A outlet to the correct side of the garage ready to go if the granny charger doesn’t cut it, and I need to buy a 15A jobby.