Відео

I think it mostly comes down to predictability. Every pilot on the planet knows what a base leg is…every pilot knows what it looks like when traffic is on final. It’s also easier to gauge “ok, that guy just passed me on final…one, two, three, reduce power”. Those types of things become a little more chaotic if everyone’s doing “short approaches” (which is kiiind of what this is, in essence) with other traffic in the pattern. For the record, I’m not saying one is right, one is wrong, one is better, etc…just simply stating why I believe that general aviation continues to institute such traffic patterns. Myself, I do my best to avoid any such “base to final” situation with early, shallow turns to final and keeping my airspeed well intact until I roll out and I’m stable…even in short field scenarios.

Hi Steven. I cannot agree with your assumptions in the first half of your video. As we all know, an a/c can stall at any speed, but only one AoA. I don't think I have ever seen or executed a LEVEL base to final turn. In every circuit-to-land that I have seen or performed, the a/c makes a descending turn, unloading the wings and reducing the AoA. That said, I agree that a constant rate turn can work well, if the pilot is trained to do them, like the military.

interesting...i do do that every now and then..

Great video…so , isn’t the correct way to do a 90 degree and avoid the stall is to drop the nose throughout the turn ?

Great advice and well presented. I learned this valuable technique from a military pilot years ago and have reinforced the belief from many more educational videos and accident studies.

In addition, save your descents for the turns. This decreases the angle of attack.

I have often wondered the same thing about 90 degree turns from base to final, and for the same reasons. I hope the word is spread and these square 90 degree illustrated turns are updated and changed to this safer method.

I've been hearing about this for years, and in fact I am only just getting back into aviation after a five plus year hiatus. I'd expected that this gradual base turn would by now have been implemented as mandatory. It really does seem to make sense. Maybe there are cons to it that I'm not aware of. In my humble opinion, I'd like to see it in the FAR/AIM as either the preferred base leg technique, or just make it mandatory unless there are drawbacks that have not yet been identified or mentioned.

In the military we flew rounded legs from upwind to downwind, and downwind to final. Partially because we were flying much higher performance aircraft and needed to keep our circuits tight, partially because it’s a much safer technique when executed well. If you get your power and attitude right, you can basically trim the aircraft to almost fly itself around the base turn. Even if you are decelerating or potentially changing configuration at that point, it’s still less dynamic because you simply pitch for profile, enter the turn and then make small adjustments to angle of bank to manage your rollout.

Excellent video, thank you so much. Having had a Bose A20 for use in B737s for the past 15 years, I was considering a change to the DC Pro X2 as the Bose needs to go in for noise cancelling repair, however I think I would not benefit from the fatigue reducing noise cancelling of the Bose with the DC headset based on your tests, I wonder if DC provide headsets for trial. Thanks again for a great video.

Nah, rounded circuits for me thanks. I found them easier to judge the approach path.

Teach constant AOA turns as opposed to constant airspeed turns in slow flight. You do not need to see AOA to do such. If you have AOA, however, fly AOA in the pattern. Search Medium for “Improve your Landings with AOA and Power Techniques.” It is all about not using any back pressure to turn. Use power instead. Even gliders can do this via less spoiler. You should not need any back pressure in the pattern till round out and flare.

Many thanks for your clear explanations!

But if you do the base to final turn without applying back pressure, meaning, letting the plane go down, then you are not increasing the angle of attack and consequently, the stall speed. Stall speed only increases with bank angle IF you maintain altitude. Letting the nose down while performing the graveyard turn ensures that you're not exceeding alpha crit. Anyway, I'm also for making wide smooth turns, it's the safest option, I just wanted to make clear that graveyard turn is only dangerous if altitude is to be maintained. Thanks for the video!

A great review with all the important info there. Many thanks

Would have very much liked to watch the whole approach!

You are exactly right. If you look at any Navy NATOPS manual it shows the oval flight pattern.

In My training days, I liked the idea of a more continuous down wind-base - final turn. But levelling off briefly to check the pattern for traffic for untowered airports makes a hell of a lot of sense. High wing vs long wing situations potentially arise if you don't level off for a few seconds to look around the pattern Called it the (american) football pattern. Looks a bit oblong and unsmooth on radar

I love breakdowns like this. Simplicity, science, knowledge. Thank you!

After getting my private pilot and then flying by instruments, I have come to prefer the "standard rate turn" especially if I have a passenger with me, easier on them and much safer, so this fits perfectly with that approach.

I've been doing the curved right base to final in my Robin for years, and now adopt this on all base to final approaches. It is much safer and that to my mind is all that matters.

What? Daring to suggest a better method, rather than just continuing all the 'nagging' about doing the Traditional Circuit "better?" That's too radical, I'm afraid. Sadly, it's unlikely that 'the powers that be' who set the standards will ever manage to make changes. YES, I'm being facetious. I like your thinking. Thanks for posting. 👍

This thread is a good discussion and a nice video explanation. I do both approaches. For very short (and I mean very) short finals I do the rounded approach, for all others I do the squared approach because I have a low wing and want to be able to keep track of traffic. I really do not think the squared approach is more dangerous than the rounded approach, provided that you know and respect the aero dynamics. Dangerous situations arise when pilots are not aware of these, no matter rounded or squared approach. A squared approach looks squared on paper, but you do no turn on a dime with a 30 degree turn. Thus I use at most 30 degree coordinated bank angle. This increases stall speed by a approx 7% - I always keep the airspeed minimum 30% higher than the stall speed at the current flap setting. I use the height loss in turns as a normal descent. If I misjudge the height loss I add power, I do NEVER pull back on the stick (remember pitch change = speed change, throttle change = height change). If I overshoot and cannot make a coordinated turn by a large margin it is a go around. The overshoot situation is the setup for a skid turn to align up with the runway, with brings you in close danger for an unrecoverable spin. Most importantly and even though I have been flying for 23 years I still twice a year train landings. Typically 12-15 landings in 2 hours. High approaches, low approaches, long/short, with flaps, without flaps, rounded approaches, squared approaches, forward slips. Totally MANDATORY is correct airspeed at all times, correct descent, no bank angle > 30 degrees, always coordinated, never pull back on stick, never overshoot (go around), spot landings -0 meters/+25 meters. The result is that a non spot landing are rare. I do this because I am a firm believer of always doing the same landing is the most dangerous you can do. Different runways, sloped or not, obstacles, traffic you are not used to, weather conditions etc. dictates that you can not always perform the same kind of landing. And when you are trying to do a "landing pattern" you are not familiar with you introduces a stress factor which for some pilots result in unintended bad decision making during landing.

Great video. I’ve been doing this since 1979 when I was taught this by an old tailwheel CFI on a grass strip.

Hello Steven, with the GoPro Labs Firmware you have more control over ISO and shutter settings (and even more). Do you think that those settings could make a ND filter obsolete?

My instructor tells me to wait till 45 deg abeam of the runway then make the turn, is this the same principle in the turn at 1:54 ?

I've been flying my approaches this way since the early 1990's, when I had the opportunity to go up with an old Vietnam era pilot who demonstrated and explained it to me. I demonstrated and explained it as well in a video on my channel a few months back.

I disagree with everyone mentioning traffic being an issue. I have a picture of traffic in my head ten miles out and increase my awareness of what traffic is in the area the closer I get and on each leg. Once you turn base, the runway is yours. If untowered and someone is doing a straight in, that should be part of your scan before turning base. If someone doesn't have comms, they shouldn't be flying. I suppose that happens and it's legal, but those people are retarded. Best you can do is work around them. Obviously towered they aren't putting two planes on the same leg. At this point, not having ADS-B out is just retarded. Who cares what the regs say, they're written in blood. Just get it.

Steven: I am a rather new pilot with 120 hours. I completely agree with your statement. It takes a little distraction to not turn base to final when you have to then overshooting. Even though it happens to me many times, still sometimes difficult to figure out a reference when to turn, I turn and always make sure that I am coordinated (ball centered) but if I overshoot, I do not get crazy, I keep making the turn coordinated and then correct to the other side when needed. I guess that a gentle turn like 15d like you will use later in IFR training is better. Even carrier fighters use it. No wonder. Thank you for sharing that. And like last comment, great video, short, to the point. Good job man.😃

Clarity aloft vs Bose A30 vs Bose proflight Vs SEHT 50-60 would be a great video :D !

Totally agree.....The AOPA Safety Foundation funds a research project at the University of North Dakota.......the study looked at "racetrack" type of pattern......and the conclusion ws it was safer.....so why is no one pushing for change?

Well done ... I think the 1 reason so many students are taught the box circuit is that it gives you time to get cleaned up ..airspeed ..flaps ... rate of decent ..attitude . ... visualisation of the landing point. As you get more experienced you can get better at doing this closer in. We are talking 500 hours of flight time here for a commercial pilot. If you don't fly often enough you won't get the "Hands and wrists" to fly this. No 2 is a busy airport circuit for separation.( as mentioned below). However I completely agree with you. I have a Cessna 180 that can use 300meters to take off ...but I always go full-length and 20 deg flap so if I have an engine failure close in I can do the impossible turn back and a curved finals means you can make the angle tighter without landing short if you have an engine failure.

Also, the increase in stall speed with bank angle applies when MAINTAINING ALTITUDE, which given a fixed airspeed, necessitates an increased angle of attack (more back stick/yoke). If you're able to accept altitude loss in the turn and not increase angle of attack, you can mitigate stall speed increase with bank angle.

I have been using phonak for almost 10 years with several different aircraft. Piston, turbo props, light, mid size business jets, regional jet and Airbus. It has been working very well with all of them. I give 4.9 star but the only downside is durability. Wires are easy to get tore. I had to get new parts several times but they discontinued the product and no longer able to update parts. 😢 I will keep using it as long as I can and will try nanocomm next.

Really interesting video. Just to add my 2 pence to the age old question/debate. I learned to fly in the 80s when in the RAF and my old WW2 instructor used to call the square circuit, the bomber circuit and the curved approach the fighter approach, being a former Hurricane pilot and 707 pilot he thankfully taught me both. I also had many a flight in modern fast jet fighters and saw the same curved approach. The history I was told goes back to WW1 and WW2 bombers needing more space and a more “procedural” circuit where fighters needed the curved approach to see over the long nose, it took less time making them less vulnerable to attack. Jump forward to modern airliners and a 1000 foot square circuit makes sense as it allows time and can be more procedural and for the airline trainee route has become “standard”. I teach and examine the square “standard” circuit but am a big advocate of a 800 foot circuit and curved approach if taught properly. Many aren’t taught properly; and I’ve seen pilots loosing a dangerous amount of speed on the downwind to base turn by closing the throttle too much, and over banking at the same time while delaying the descent, along with the loss of lookout under the up wing on base to final turn in low wing aircraft. There’s a reason it’s called the dead side. It is more intuitive than procedural. The square circuit is an easier method to teach and learn as power is only removed for the descent on base after the turn, a descent is then started and trimmed stable with or without flaps before the turn to final (less to do and their is time to do it). My opinion is for students, novice, less intuitive pilots and those destined for a modern passanger bomber the square approach provides a better (safer) option. Sorry for the long answer but it’s an age old question.

Where can we get the Robin Lanyard ?

Love your videos, please keep them coming!

what a nice video. organized, easy to watch. Thanks!

Exactly!

Steven this is a fantastic overview of the farm strip and I very much hope you continue with similar videos of places you visit. Local places to visit / eat etc are always welcome. Thanks and keep up the good work.

Many thanks for this video. Would you be able to find the link to the LC-C35 adapter please?

A concise and well-explained video. I can't disagree with anything you have said here. I often find myself wincing when flying with another pilot who appears to favour this sharp base-to-final turn followed by a longer final. I prefer the method you outline here- mainly out of laziness and preferring to cut the corner - straightening up to the final approach course only within the last NM or so. The safety argument for doing so is compelling as well. I should add that I'm based at a radar-controlled class D airfield, so checking for traffic on final is less of a concern when at home. I see the argument for checking the final is clear before turning on,....

Great review…we just need to get you a DC ONE-X to try….much more “apples to apples” with the Bose…

Very nicely explained. Video not too long so as to keep viewers interested. Thanks 😊

May I ask which camera you took the telemetry from and if you have a link to the program you used please? Thank you 😊

Forbidden because the Nuclear power plant… with the Airbus A320/A220 it’s more difficult, on Flight Simulator I’ve tried many times, but I can’t avoid the restricted flight zone… I can land it, but it needs to be precised

Oh and just to note, the noise abatement over a farm on the approach to 22.

Steven, An excellently produced video. I've been in there a couple of times this year myself, and agree with what you said. A hidden gem. I'd be intersted to know how you get the flight instruments to display so nicely in your video.

I have maaaaany flight hours in model airplanes, I have had sporty flights in LSA and I have also flown in military Sea Harrier simulator. In all of the above, proficient and I have always flown and landed the way it is explained in this video. It is intuitive, smooth and safer. Then, I started getting my LSA flight license and I also started doing these damn squared circuits. There are several reasons: - In all the theory and internet, you find squared circuits. - The instructor (even though he flies sporty too) kind of did the same to highlight the legs when teaching the lessons. - Although not always, I developed a tendency to do those to show I was “in control” and I was never corrected by him. However, the moment I am told “do what you want with the plane”, I am back flying the way I have always been, whether it is practicing dead-stick landings, mid-field emergency landings, sporty flying around or just on my own. It is overwhelming to see how easy you get influenced by bad habits that are not even yours originally. Thanks for the video and rising our awareness!

Absolutely, it’s the right thing to do. Trying to make these military perfect square turns is ridiculous. Better a continuous gentle turn from downwind to final, just like you say.