Відео

no, you dont actually "have to time it" correctly to floor hug. You can simply just option select it because SDI down isnt an option with a lockout window, and because the exchange happens on hit instead of directly before its kind of trivial to control for. This is already in a game where you can't counterpoke anything and there's little reason to actually space anything.

really good vid! Thanks for explaining neutral as well

Honestly, new to Rivals 2, never played Rivals or Melee or PM. Maybe casual Ultimate trash. BUT - Rivals 2 is so insanely fast and disadvantage basically STARTS if you so much as shield against half the casts buttons, so if there is something I can do to maybe get to play the game that stock, hey I'm all for it

>calls bio's video "a very opinionated and misinformed take" >makes an equally opinionated video misrepresenting many of bio's points Online discourse in a nutshell.

I think it should be more like if your attack gets crouch cancelled your faster frame moves should come out a few frames later. So you could shield a combo, grab or read the shield punish your opponents going to attempt. Where it is now just makes some moves not feel good in nuetral when their poke tools. Though through a few balance tweeks in the future this is probably going to be slightly tweaked to feel better to play with in those moments.

People don't get mad because "they watched one video". I played the demo. I didn't like the fact that anyone grounded could always counter me. Your video is frankly uninformed. In fact, you neglected to mention a SINGLE reason as to why it SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. It's not fun, you just talk about how to play around a mechanic that isn't fun.

first off, this video was very poorly made and you should feel bad about it. second, the issue people have is not CC. The issue is FH. At low %, half the moves in the game are not safe on hit when spaced. That's a problem when the moves that aren't safe are combo starters. This game is just grab grab grab because of this.

why are people conflating crouch cancelling with floor hugging

Looks idiot anyway

You're explaining how it has a counter but not how it make the game better or more "fun". Then you undermine any negative opinion by reducing it to it being a "skill issue". Not a good look.

"That was easy." You underestimate how crappy some newer players can be. I still haven't the vaguest idea of how to do this, let alone consistently pull it off. If I hit someone, I should have the advantage. We already have reversing mechanics like shield and parry, what was the need for this unintuitive and arcane mechanic on top? Genuinely wanna know. Even the arcade hard boss seems to do it and I can't beat this shit. I've been at it for over TWO HOURS. I tried several things, nothing worked. No boss should be this hard.

CC is not a problem, but floorhugging after a missed parry or during a roll/spotdodge has been and always will be strong. I definitely see the benefit in nerfing it in that regard, but even so, there is still counterplay, and your opponent does have to get hit and then time the input in order to do it anyway. I'm coming from being both a Rivals and Melee player, so I'm not exactly biased toward either one, but I'm fine with floorhugging remaining as it is or being reduced. Just don't outright kill it.

I would hesitate to label the others video as misinformed. Just because a mechanic was present in P+ and accepted doesn't mean it must be good or liked by all. You have to consider BioBirbs main background is Rivals 1 (or at least he played that most recently.).in Rivals 1 I can't think of any move that is minus on hit. In project plus there are some moves that are punishable on hit unless L-canceled. Plus the introduction of shields when rivals 1 didn't have them introduces even more ways to be punished for being aggressive. My feeling is that BioBirb just doesn't like playing a fighting game where you can be punished for aggression, especially when the number of moves that can break that CC or floor hug is a bit more limited than desired. I think everyone is allowed to have preferences and the heat in both videos is fully unnecessary. In honesty because rivals 2 is so different than rivals 1 I have a strong feeling as if rivals 1 will continue to live on or that rivals 2 may introduce a sort of classic mode in the future.

CC should be removed because I jabbed an orcane holding crouch for 300 years and he down stronged me. It's obviously NOT me!

You’re kind of already approaching this from the wrong angle. Saying “this doesn’t need to be a deal breaker” and “this is just a skill issue” invalidates any negative opinion held by anybody regarding the mechanic, even if it’s just conceptually. There’s no actual analysis here of why CC/FH is necessary to the game flow, nor is there an exploration or even theorycraft of how the game would be differently balanced without it, potentially even better balanced without it (plenty of platform fighters get by without the mechanic, why are their successes and flaws dealing without it not discussed?) I don’t love CC/FH. I think it’s a mechanic born of Melee/PM loyalism, and you can’t really make the excuse that people should like it in Rivals 2 because “it’s not as strong here.” That’s not what people care about. I think you’re actively doing both your side and the side you’re against a disservice by coming at this at an even more surface level approach than Bio did. I don’t believe this video will help change the mind of the already extremely niche subset of people who are turned off by the mechanic. Don’t normally interact with videos like this, but felt the need to talk on this here because you’re just doing what Birb did, and for a person you felt was making a heavily opinionated and misinformed video, this video also felt heavily opinionated, and actively ignorant to the actual intent of the video you’re responding to.

So that what those arrows mean

"it's in melee guys 🫵😯, we have to put it in the game!"

Bios video mentions 3 forms of counterplay to floorhugging/crouch cancelling, if you think he did not mention any forms of counterplay you need to rewatch the video. If you still cant find it after rewatching it then i can provide timestamps to help.

Currently the most consistent way for me (a not so good player) to counterplay people who know how to floorhug is to play Grabs of Aether. I don't want to spend my time playing Grabs of Aether, and the promise of a deep game on the other side isn't enough to make me want to play Grabs of Aether. Game's not for me.

First off, he mentioned the counterplay. That was part of the problem, if you don't punish someone with a spike or grab, they punish your punish. Second, it doesn't make the game better, in invalidates a bunch of moves making the game shallower and more boring. Third. Crouch Cancel can't be done at any time during any state. It's a low risk counter that trades % for frame advantage and requires you to crouch in advance. Floorhugging can be done at any time in any state, including a failed parry, a roll, or mid attack. This "Mechanic" is caustic to competitive play, I can think of a single fighting game where you can interrupt your opponents combo and that's guilty gears burst, which is limited by a gauge and can't be done constantly. Additionally, there's counter play to it that's more than just "Only using certain attacks". if you predict it you can block it then continue your combo. Being able to do it at will as many times as you want is just awful.

It's like parries in third strike kinda

The problem isn't the floorhugging or the CC The actual problem is that the game plays nothing like Rivals 1, and that one fact basically recontextualizes the reason we got here in the first place. Players who expected or supported a sequel to Rivals are left without a direct sequel, and the response to CC and FH since the early betas has happened as a direct result of the differences between RoA1 and RoA2, and the expectations of the playerbase who played and enjoyed RoA 1.

ay, someone had to say it :P

As a new player I don't understand anything of this terms and mechanics 🤷🏻‍♂️

Highly recommend you all watch Hyperflame's video on the same topic because Elpe lacks the ability to communicate ideas effectively.

I disagree with the idea that simply adding an arrow pointing down makes something intuitive, the game already has an arrow indictor, showing the direction of DI and SSDI. What the game is communicating is that your opponent is holding down, not that the floor is acting as a sponge for knockback. I have other problems with the way you have made your argument, but I understand you probably don't have a lot of time. So I won't get into them.

He did explain a counter option, you clearly made the video to be a contrarian

fk u. i dont even know this since its my day one and you said yall wrong. dislike

You didn't really make any real points, so it's hard to take you seriously. _"Skill issue"_ isn't a point. _"It's good because the game would be bad without it"_ isn't a point. _"It's good because it is good for the game, and Melee has it, so it's good"_ Isn't a point. _"Just Grab & Space Aerials lmao"_ isn't a point. BioBirb's video never argued that it had no counterplay. You are _completely_ missing the point.

People really crying about a skill issue.

Thank you. I mean its reddit. They always take whatever is negative, blow it up, and never play the game. If reddit is mad, someone did something right.

Nice video, everyone’s been crowd surfing that it’s a bad feature not me though.

based

Perhaps make the mechanics only work in neutral but not during recovery of some moves or counter-hit. So people who whiff punish high risk moves or do good reads for a counter know they are safe. In SF you always get a guarantied counter hit combo if the opponent whiffs a command grab or a reversal move. Cross tag has 1 button Reversals but getting punished for whiffing them or if it gets blocked disabled burst and gave the opponent a full free combo.

I needed this video

Sorry, you must be wrong cause you are not me😡. Btw if we had drift DI in the game whe wouldn't need SSDI down but removing it now is stupid since comboing is way easier now

Never had issues with it, and people are just babies who refuse to try stuff like grabbing people and default to "WAAA I GET BEAT UP IT BROKEN". Literally skill issue.

Even the CPUs use crouch-cancelling. Just "git gud".

it's a trash mechanic not worth keeping, and that is not the point Bio Bird was trying to get across, it has counter-play but it limits your approach WHEN WE PLAY A GAME WITH TWO ATTACK BUTTONS! if the game needs re-balancing, so f***KING be it, this garbage is not fun to play around.

I think CC is absolutely good and should stay, I would just like a tweak on floorhugging. Playing around CC is interactive and needs to be timed, but all floorhugging requires is that you react to yourself being hit. The other player can't really mix up timing to prevent this, and it screws up a couple finishers.

I don't get ur response at all. Rivals 2 was supposed to make important tech more accessible so why is this difficult tech even harder is somehow better? Having 1 more option to approach with grab does not fix making most of the moves impossible to use for approaching

1:43 so basically you want me to wiff in front of my opponent and just hope I can read a movement option and they don’t just wiff punish me??? You said there’s a lot of counter play but u only mentioned two and one of the two sounds like shit.

people always forget that a top player in melee for the last 15 years has not even bothered with the mechanic and has never once argued about it. Mang0 shows you do not need to win in these games. However, i feel like floorhugging doesn't need to be a thing since jank stuff has happened with it often, i'd at least like it to be a smidge more refined!

Really well articulated and short video.

Asdi down is so aids in melee. I have a trauma response.

I still think it needs toning down, I've been escaping too many kill confirms at like 80+ percen twithout even needing to amsah tech, and having the same happen to me. Some characters' tools don't feel prepared for this mechanic, so they ultimately still need to do a whole cast moveset lookover if they don't adjust the global mechanic itself. That or it just needs to stop working past 40, which people say it doesn't but still can for different moves.

Nah fuck that. I dont feel like I should be punished for some of the hits I’m landing bc the opponent held down at the right time. Getting f-smashed right after landing an Ariel is fucked. I can and inevitably will have to learn the mechanic but I don’t like it at its core

true I meant true in the video and not the title It’s not broken true

Another person who thinks we are talking about cc, that is not the problem the problem is that if your oponent whiffs a very slow smash attack you should be able to punish with a smash attack of your own but your oponent can just negate all of that with floor hugging and punish you back for actually reacting and punishing, so you are punish because your oponent missed?

I think there could be another look at floor hugging, its not an awful, but there is room for improvement there. it especially shouldn't be done in situations like knockdown and parry stun