Відео

Their safety data sheet states "ethylene carbonate" and "diethyl carbonate" and "methyl ethyl carbonate". These are dead stock mainstream liquid lithium ion electrolyte solvents. It also states lithium hexaflouro phosphate (the most common liquid lithium ion electrolyte salt) and poly ethylene polymer (the most common traditional liquid lithium ion separator) aluminum is the cathode current collector. Copper is the anode current collector, graphite is the anode, LiNiO2 is the cathode...they aren't even using NMC! Diflouroethylene polymer is the most common cathode binder. Styrene butadiene polymer and sodium carboxymethyl cellulose are always used as the anode binder in water based slurries for classic batteries. Nylon is what the outer pouch material is made of. Nickel is what the tabs are made of. But here's the biggest kicker... Phosphoric acid, iron(2+) lithium salt (1:1:1) is just a fancified description for LFP! Their cathode is an lfp nickel oxide blend (to boost enery density with the nickel). There is not a single component on their materials list that is not in a dead stock off the shelf consumer lithium ion battery. No unaccounted materials that could make a solid electryte. It is NOT even a semi solid state battery. Safety tests can be be done in such a way to not cause the reaction you would expect (nail sharpness, nail material composition, cell size, even cell fixturing to dissipate heat). Passing some random safety test doesn't mean its actually safer in the real world even if you use a third party lab. (And many third party labs arent actually very good at their jobs). I havent seen anyone test their higher cycle life claims so all we have is their warranty to go by. If they'll lie about composition, id trust the warranty as far as i can throw it too.

The difficulty in handing off accounts when you move is one reason I want to self-host all of my IoT crap with Home Assistant. (The main reason is I don't want my stuff remotely bricked.) However, if I sell to somebody who is not a technophile, I may end up being their extended tech support. My own Home Assistant instance has been down since I moved. Only being used for one device in a Rube-Goldberg fashion. If it was controlling important systems it is possible I would have put maintaining it at a higher priority.

Take the video down now and once you've found out the truth, delete it.

He still doesn't understand what a Solid State Cell is. The cells in the Yoshino battery are not Solid State.

The whole issue with his last video was the lie that it was Solid State Cells being used. Rather than listening to those that know the difference, he doubled down on the lie and relied on marketing BS.

It's a bit like Taco Bell saying that their tacos are 100% beef, and someone complaining that the meat filling has onions and seasoning and can't be 100%. If the liquid is a binder used to help manufacturing and supplies no Electrical use to the battery, then it is totally 100% a Solid State Battery. You'd have to select a liquid that was not an electrical insulator, so someone could be extremely pedantic and claim that it was "helping". Hogwash. Electrolyte has a function, if the liquid is not providing that function, then the Electrolyte is Solid. End of Story.

Huge fail by enphase there

Can't you ship the Yoshino from another destination, say China, to the UK? Holiday in the UK Matt? Though I think there's a 99Wh limit on devices by passenger airlines.

Two overall comments (beyond ongoing thanks to Matt & Sean): 1>> Enphase should be given a "broad-stroke" failure by BBB or similar organization (equivalent to price gouging) <2>> Absolutely LOVED the fluid (yes, pun) conversation between you two on Yoshino issue (fluid or gel---and does it matter?). Keep up the GREAT work, even when projects take 5 hours.

Exactly, "words have meaning", say wgat you mean and mean what you say 👍

Is there any official definition or broadly accepted industry standard of what a solid state battery is?

Verify, verify, verify! Never trust marketing. Never trust people with a motive to get something of value from you. Is it okay to market something as something it is not? Never. That is the very definition of misleading marketing. Companies will push meanings every way they can for profits. Honesty is absent. As to the "solid state-ish" phrase, they could say based on solid state technology (if it actually is) and that would be absolutely fine as it is true. This is the same reason honey "products" that contain honey but are not just honey can not be marketed or labelled as "Honey". It is claimed that the taste is the same, but those products in most cases are mostly corn syrup, flavoring and a bit of honey, not "Honey".

The Yoshino battery is probably semi solid state which explains why it doesn't have a bigger weight advantage over NMC. I did doubt they were actually using a solid electrolyte in a production battery because from all reports there are some extremely big players who while close, have yet to solve the problems. There are however a couple of companies who have working semi solid state technology (the electrolyte is more a gel).

Maybe Will Prowse will do a breakdown on UA-cam.

"SOLIS STATE" is an underdevelopment technology. For me, that suggests many different properties are being experimented with. And no formula has been finalized. No exact minimum or maximum is set as a successful example. I agree with the performs in these areas as appropriate for the current state of the solid state technology. In 10 ywars, or whatever, it may not qualify as solid state. What I would be buying today isn't the name, but the performance that surpasses the competition.

Yes, what people call AI is not AI and no, you shouldn't call it AI. AI will literally be the equivalent of a human being with no body, and you will rapidly not be allowed to abused them because once they exist they will go from dog intelligence, to raven intelligence to true AI (human intelligence). But as a form of journalist you have an ethical responsibility to NOT be part of the problem and misuse terms just because other people do. Just because football commentators describe players we have film off as 'legendary' doesn't mean they aren't committing a crime against education and progress by doing so. The AI one is easier though than the solid state battery thing. But there should be a definition, like there is now of planets, and it should be legally required to use the correct definition. It's going to be covered by regulation like being able to ship it on aeroplanes. Are you allowed to carry it in your luggage? The battery chemistry matters. When you present a video it's easy for you to say, 'This is a battery with some solid state technology.' But you aren't in a position to make the determination of what counts as a solid state battery. That should be done by engineers and scientists in the field. To me, it sounds like hybrid battery is a good candidate if we're going to have manufacturers releasing batteries that are a bridge between 'old fashioned' batteries and 'solid state batteries' by combining aspects of both. But yes, there should be industry agreed terms. Imagine if AA and AAA batteries hadn't become the international standard? It would have been utter chaos, like all those countries who don't use the British standard plug and socket and adopted their own, utterly unsafe, low voltage, awkward to use standards with few or no safety features, no fuse, and terrible design? That would cost the planet lives and billions a year in pointless regional variances and make manufacturing a nightmare (it is, precisely for this reason). Using language correctly is helpful and the more good examples we are set, the more likely we are to use it correctly ourselves, and the more rapidly and clearly we can understand each other. Which is why you should correct anyone who says 'Specific Ocean' (they mean Pacific but probably misheard it and no-one corrected them).

I understand what you’re saying…but at the end of the day, when the power’s out, it doesn’t really matter if this unit is “truly” solid state as long as the benefits are there.

9 minutes is faster than normal???

when you talk about other channels like here when you talked about one that tears down and checks in, it's good if you link to the channel you're talking about

I ofyen have to submit info to get MSDSs written, and rlthe "is a gel a solid or a liquid?" hits me in the feels. (Generally, gels are considered high viscosity liquid). Pastes, especially thin pastes have a similar quandry, though theybare usually considered soft solids. Gels can also be described as colloids. Oh, hotdogs are sandwiches. Overall, i prefer the most accurate/precise descriptors. Words matter, regardless of what many linguists say. Ill let "ain't" slip by, but a kilogram is mass, and no amount of idiocy will make me accept it as anything else. And the kg-f (kilogram force; e.g., the weight equivalent of one kilo, is a kludge for the lazy and ignorant) As for the product in question, if there is some liquid, id prefer a "semi-solid state battery" as a descrition. But thats just me.

8:00 "What are you charging for?" -- "Because we *can*, that's why."

I think Matt kind of stumbled into hitting the nail on the head there, in at least as far as their marketing goes. If they were to start saying their battery, "uses Solid State Technology," and not listing it as an actual solid state battery, I think they're golden, that covers their bases pretty well. But full solid state and semi-solid state are really two different animals, though semi-solid state it a little bit of the best of both worlds. Easier to produce with traditional methods, but extra resistance to dendrite formation.

I had to stop halfway through and rewatch a teardown on a solid-state battery that was a simi-solid state battery. It was also supposed to be very safe but the cell he punctured flamed nicely. That might be why people wanted to see what was inside.

Started to watch this but gave up after 5 minutes of dull chat about nothing interesting.

People are familiar and comfortable with the term 'hybrid ' and there's no reason not to call the battery a semi-solid hybrid. They should have trumpeted the safety advantages and weight instead. smh

Thanks for the info on Enphase. Hopefully I never have to sell so I can avoid that stupidity.

Guess I won’t ever buy anything from Enphase..

When a company uses word games with their description of a product I wonder if they will use word games with their warranty.

Matt and Sean, you have standing invitations to stop by my place for a delicious hot dog sandwich.

To ship overseas. Ship it with a freight forwarder. They will do your paperwork for you! I use to be one.

i agree with you on watt hour per kg end weight. (dating myself) i remember when companies would add lead to boomboxes so the end user thought they had more because heavier is more stuff right I want to know the weight of the unit. if it has swappable batteries then i want to know the weight of the swap batteries as well. if the unit weights 40 lbs and the extra batteries weigh 30lbs the total is 70 lbs for the power end use. maybe you can fins a patterner channel who is a tear down or other thing and link there videos and they can link yours for end user experience

The idea of a lawsuit on such a basis sounds so terrible American

I'm definitely skeptical about this particular product. Yoshino is just a brand as far as I can tell, and probably farms out all the manufacture of the power stations to China. Like many Chinese-made products, claims are fast and furious but not necessarily accurate and might even be made-up. That's why I want to know whos battery cells they are actually using... they certainly aren't making the cells themselves! As far as I can tell they are a no-name lifestyle brand and everything else is hidden from view. I suspect they just plopped into automotive NMC (NCA) batteries and called it a day, which would be a regression in the power station market given that most power station makers abandoned NMC/NCA years ago. There are a dozen+ power station brands out there now and most of them don't make the units themselves. And the reason I think Yoshino is one of these is that Yoshino basically lo-balled all the power electronics in most of their offerings to the point where it doesn't matter whether the battery inside is solid state or not... the power electronics are so poorly spec'd they can't take advantage of it either way. What do people think they are buying with such a poorly-spec'd product? So Yoshino is basically selling a lemon, in my view. They are taking advantage of consumers not really knowing what they are buying. There's no point putting solid-state cells in their products other than for marketing purposes because the electronics can't actually exercise the features that solid-state batteries have. People might not be aware of this, but essentially all power stations are limited by their power electronics and the wiring gauges they decide to build the systems with, and NOT the cells. LiFePO4 cells can tolerate very high charge and discharge rates. They barely even get warm at 1C and most cells on the market today can easily handle 2C (at nominal ambient temperatures). There are cells on the market that can handle 4C all day long. Power station capabilities are not a function of cell capabilities. -Matt

perhaps semi-solid state is a better term than solid state ish. from my perspective the reason NMC is so much more flammable (vs lfp) is due to the electrolyte being a (better) fuel source, if this "solid state" uses a different electrolyte that isn't as flammable (more comparable to lfp), then we have a winner, but if you put a torch to it and it still goes up like gasoline, then not so much.

Well, the main problem with your watt-hours/kg calculation wasn't the "whole pack" issue. The main problem was that you were comparing other power stations that had LiFePO4 battery chemistries with the Yoshino which has some sort of automotive NMC/NCM chemistry. There is a vast difference in energy density between those two chemistries, and thus weight, that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether something is solid state or not solid state. When power stations first began getting popular they were mostly NMC based, very light-weight for their energy content, but people quickly realized that they were wearing out quickly and that the chemistry was neither safe nor robust enough for the use case. Most power station makers switched to LiFePO4 which has a lower energy density but is far, far more robust and longer-lasting.

I am more science oriented in my training and I tend to lean towards naming things correctly to prevent misconceptions. So I would lean to "semi-solid state" as a name for the overarching tech used in that Yoshino battery. It could well be that when real solid state batteries are available, the performance characteristics are even better than this. I also always had (still do really but that battle is lost) a problem with the name solar generators. Technically speaking the solar panels are generators and what we now call solar generators is really a combination of a battery with added electronics (charge controller, bms, converter, ....). The same goes for Matts AI example.

I think myself somewhat tech savvy but to Sean’s message that he didn’t connect the dots as Matt thought we all should have known is true. I need to pay closer attention and be more a critical thinker or Matt can be an improved story teller. Great content!

I'm glad I was listening to this one without any kids around. Something I've appreciated about your content is that I don't need to work about it being PG rated. Disappointed in you introducing swearing to the content at the 9:58 mark. Is that going to continue or a one time thing?

Matt, why don't you talk to Jordan Giesige and ask him for his contact that does his battery teardowns and analysis

My current goal is to produce at least 120% of my summer electric bill. And considering here it's pretty much summer all year long means we gotta be blasting the AC pretty much all day.

Matt making dad jokes makes him a faux pa.

7:38 That's absolutely shameful on Enphase's part.

The next steps in the process of 'recycling at a molecular level' is to allow it to become a 'trekish Replicator!

Plant T R E E S Catalyse PHYTOPLANKTON

For me the scariest thing about the race for AGI is that people are rushing to what they consider to be the finish line. And that Rush is not being governed by anyone other than the ones who are probably more motivated by money than anything else

Speaking personally the two technologies that I keep obsessing about are geothermal energy which theoretically can produce energy any place on Earth with a much smaller footprint than wind or solar. And the other one is autonomous tunneling for utilities. That one has such potential. We spend billions and billions of dollars repairing the above ground systems after weather calamities. Billions lost in economic output from the power outages. Billions lost and natural places wiped out when fires are sparked from utility lines. And yet we keep putting them right back up where they were before. And we spend decades arguing about the land that the lines are supposed to cross. And then our backyards and streets are laced with utility poles that ultimately have to be kept clear from trees. And if either Russia or China wanted to mess with our electrical systems they don't have too much trouble finding them. The Boring Company's developments are promising but we need to invent technologies that are smaller diameter. And we need to build technologies for tunnels that can carry the water from the desalination that was mentioned in this video.

I'm not sure about Matt's investment advice. If you try to invest right now in brand new technologies or chemistries you are taking a great risk. You're risking the chemistry and the technology as well as the company that is trying to bring them to market. It's rare that you can get all of those things correct even if you are extremely knowledgeable. Ideally you would find a company that is making such things and is already making profits on them rather than finding pre-revenue companies which are extremely risky. But even if you find a profitable sodium ion company what's to say that the next technology around the corner isn't going to supplant that as well. Finally even companies that are making profits are not killing it from a stock price standpoint. Just look at catl and byd stock prices which sort of crawling along for the last 4 years. Same width LG and Panasonic Tesla stock price only recently started to react to the volume of Mega packs they were selling You need to keep in mind that China is trying extremely hard to dominate that industry and to do so they will cut prices to the bone making profits almost impossible for any competitor, and it also applies to those same Chinese companies

The argument that carbon capturing benefits the fossil fuel industry, is like the argument that life wests prevent people from learning to swim.

Geopolymers are a class of chemicals that provide the same bond function as the Portland cement. Many of these may produce less carbon or even use carbon-containing molecules in the curing process.

Net zero, even if it is achieved, will not stop temperature rising. Because there is a large store of CO2 in the atmosphere and oceans. It will take a long time to draw that down, even once no more is being added. We are going to have to do Solar Radiation Management, at least as an interim measure. Click on my icon for a link to my book which details the required actions.