Відео

I think that the main thing, is that the characters in campaign 3 just aren't very likeable. Sam's trolling has been worse than ever. FCG is a series of bad jokes and an occasional murderbot. Ashton's an asshole. Chetney's a bigger asshole. Fearne's occasionally interesting, but rarely endearing. Laudna only rarely manages to be sympathetic; she is more often causing problems for the party then being sympathetic. Imogen just feels like a misplaced cowgirl from the old west, which is just weird. Only Orym, of the main cast, is sympathetic and compelling. And since it's quite clear that he's not the main character of the season, he can't carry the show. Instead, he's like Dark Helmet yelling, "I'm surrounded by Assholes!"

I’m out on season 3

SPOILER My issue with C3 is that I feel like the OOG reason for the whole thing with Predathos, the Gods and no matter what happens, it's gonna cause a shift in the status quo of Exandria is because i think it'll be the in universe explanation for the change from DnD 5e to Daggerheart, which I get from a business stand point, but I'm not getting into from a veiwer pov. The other thing is the breaks from the main campaign for the EXU stories. Now, I've heard glowing things about Brennen Lee Mulligan and his DMing and I fully believe that they are fantastic, but I personally don't care enough about the greater lore of Exandria to deicate the time to watch them, and would of much rather have stayed with the main story of c3.

C1 and C2 felt like organic DnD. Like we were just watching some folks play a game. C3 feels like a heavily scripted entertainment product. I'm not saying I think its actually scripted, I'm saying it feels like they're improvising within a very tight framework. Disagree about the part about main character syndrome, unless you mean Orion, which yeah he did have that big time. C3 has a very obvious main character though, everything has revolved around Imogen since like episode 3, and the story would entirely fall apart without her. Shes the main character, but she didn't make herself main character. Matt did.

I stopped watching when C3 came out. I watched the first episode and could not take it. Very different from C1 & C2. I really liked those. I don't like the plot or story at all in C3. i find it very uninteresting and more scripted than the first 2 even though I know they say they don't script anything, it still feels that way.

Giving this some thought, I think your argument regarding the "writers' room mentality" definitely has merit...and I would also go so far as to say there's a certain MCU-fatigue-esque feel to Campaign 3. It started out feeling like it was mostly its own thing, but first the immediate addition of EXU characters and then interweaving of first Campaign 1 and then Campaign 2 characters started to feel honestly a little imposing. Campaign 3 was the first campaign I caught from the beginning and I've watched roughly a third of Campaign 1 and between the full episodes and hightlight videos of Campaign 2, I had a fairly good idea of who the major players were that were getting introduced. I wager a guess that there were plenty of people who jumped on board for the first time for Campaign 3 to get in on the ground floor and started feeling lost when important characters form other campaign showed up, and not just as cameos but as pivotal characters in the plot. Campaign 3 feels like starting the MCU at Infinity War and Endgame of Phase Three of the MCU - yes, you can show up then and probably still enjoy the ride, but there's going to be so many easter eggs and in-jokes and lesser known characters introduced that you're probably also going to be equally confused and the emotional beats are going be just a bit...off. I will note that while I'm not a hard core Critter, I have enjoyed everything I've experienced from Critical Role, the only things I explicitly skipped were the EXU Calamity and the Aeor flashback. Campaign 3 has been a lot of fun; I honestly think both Marisha and Ashley actually found their ideal characters in Laudna and Fearne respectively (and to a lesser extent Travis in Chetney). But I do get the distinct sense they're trying to wrap up their time in Exandria so they as a group can move on to something more new and fresh. This is a supposition on my part...but I do feel as though the sense of dissatisfaction from the fans may be in part due to a reflection of the aforementioned fatigue from the players. Regardless of what your creative endeavor is, eventually there comes a time to say "I've done enough here" and move on to a new, different project to feel energized and engaged again.

You wouldn't call Imogen the main character? Seems like as the higher ruidian born most things revolve around her. Im all for the new direction most of the time but it has certainly lost steam in some areas when they can't make a cohesive decision

I think it's a really cool and interesting phenomenon that everyone feels like something's off in C3, but no two people seem to come to the exact same conclusion as to why. The real C3 was the theories we made along the way. I'll have a go at it too: For me a big part is definitely that in C3 everyone feels like a side character. Note that I'm not saying bad. I like some of them. - Imogen: It feels like the spotlight defaults to her. But Laura being a good player seems to be aware and trying to avoid it for that reason. That doesn't work well, however, since no one else is really stepping up. Instead it makes Imogen come across as passive while the spotlight stays on her anyway. - Ashton has no drive. "Just don't." - Fearne has no goals that require active pursuit. - Orym: IIRC Liam at some point literally expressed that he made Orym with the purpose of being a side character. - Laudna's Delilah problem didn't require her to take very active steps to resolve. - FCG is a literal support bot with an internal conflict. - Chetney is a comedic relief joke character. It's too much of a good thing, in my opinion. Too much sharing the spotlight. And yeah, they could have literally ran a published module and for the most part the characters would have worked just fine, with the weak ties they have to the main plot. Then there's the issue of the stakes not being clear. What does releasing Predathos do? The characters are trying to prevent Predathos being released, because that could be bad. Maybe. They literally cannot make up their mind, because they're lacking critical information. So they just hope to "do the right thing when the time comes".

That is not a terrible opinion, by any means, but I will respectfully disagree with minor parts. Biggest of all, in my opinion, is that C1 and C2, while more open, were in the period of half or more of the cast (not counting the myriad of guests) learning how to play DnD, whereas C3 felt as though the charm of them all learning and adjusting the homebrewed rules was missing. I walked away from C3 shortly after BH went to Whitestone, so I'm unsure how many guests have come and gone since then, but I know C1 and C2 had so many other voice actors or other figures in the tabletop community come in to add to the full experience; and C3 has felt a little dry in comparison to the prior seas or oceans of the prodigal campaigns. And that is where I can put my own finger on C3. It has felt dry and less wondrous, despite its many good moments.

I love C1 & C2 is my fav of the three. I checked out of C3 about half way through - mainly because I felt the overall story was so much more convoluted and less interesting than the previous 2 campaigns. And while I have always enjoyed the different character creations each CR Player has come up with... for some reason... the chemistry of the CR3 characters I don't think is as strong as C1 & C2. While yes... one can say... the group's storytelling has become more linear and more like a pre-written module (feeling a little too business oriented)... I think it hurts the overall enjoyment from the viewers just being on this fun ride with crazy characters made by friends where their chemistry and Matt himself - seemed to be more in the moment and fluid in C1 & C2 in comparison to C3. I kind of wish they didn't worry so much about following a linear story and when S3 needed to end - but it seems they went in this direction for C3.

Bells Hells just aren’t heroes, they’re just random assholes. Nothing about how they got roped into the main plot makes any sense or why such powerful figures in the world would trust them.

Chetney, FCG, Fearne, Launda and Matts world building and character work have been the reasons I've stuck through this campaign. Travis especially, has done a bang up job doing what Sam usually does so well. Taking a joke character and giving it some heart and substance. The other characters and the overall narative have been frustrating. I find myself spending more time thinking about why certain characters or NPCs are making the decisions that they are, or why the gods havent stepped in and done something about Ludinus which is the most obvious plot hole. I just can't get immersed in this campaign like I did with 1 or 2.

I just think that the characters should've had more drive to either save or kill the gods, they're so indifferent and the same conversation has been had a lot. I'm here for the characters, but I want them to have more motivation and make a choice.

Tv story telling and actual play story telling are different. I hope they aren't sacrificing the actual play for a potential future tv show. It's been a chore to get through this season. I hope they go back to the old style

That was a friendly discussion. :) My theory is based on the amount of world building, which was bigger in c2 than in c3. c2 just had more places and lands to explore. Compare Marquet to Wildemount: Uff! I roughly guess c2 introduced twice as many towns and places. (depending on how you count places known from former campaigns). I still had a great time with c3! :)

You should watch c1, it’s the best.

Campaign 1 is the best by far, you're really cheating yourself.

I prefer D&D's vast diversity of races/creatures and classes compared to other RPGs. Where else in the community can you play a Dragon as your character; be it in the form of a Dragonborn, Half-Dragon or a LITERAL dragon

I’ve watched all of the campaigns up to mostof the recent one. There are parts I like and dislike about each. There were plenty of times I really didn’t like fjord because it sometimes felt like it was just Travis not liking sidetracks and so the character came off as unnecessarily cruel. I like the characters in C3 much more, overall, but the story as a whole is much less interesting to the point I sometimes start listening and feel like “ok, let’s just get through this one”

I'm fairly new to CR, having come in through the Amazon show. As such, I've not watched season 1 (as I'm going to see it on tv) and have really come on for campaign 3 after watching one-shots and extracts from the past (as I know that C2 is also coming out on Amazon and there are only so many hours in the day). So, basically, I am not calling myself an expert! Campaign 3 has been enjoyable - and I've binged almost the whole thing in a couple of months due to being off work, recovering from illness. I have enjoyed it - but I do agree that it feels like it's scripted (not as in fully scripted, but that the destination and main beats were always known). The debate over the gods is challenging, and isn't sitting well with me. Too many characters and classes depend on the gods for them to be willing to end them, and with one of the team now being a Paladin I am troubled. My main has always been a paladin, and everything I know about that class would involve a swift sword cut and a Divine Smite on anyone wanting to release a god-eater. I loved the Downfall arc on Aeor, and how it showed that it wasn't a simple act of violence from the gods and that they were conflicted about what they felt they had to do. At the end of that arc, Ludinus was even called out on his opinion on the gods being bad ... "Were we watching the same globe?" But then, we just quickly swung back to getting rid of the gods, If that is the final goal of this campaign I'm not expecting to feel especially satisfied. (It is, though, their game that we're watching - so I know it's up to them). I have wondered if they are moving away from the established pantheon due to how closely it sits with the DnD standards, ready to move to something new under Daggerheart in C4.

Let's just call a spade a spade here. The quality has dropped significantly as it always does when a beloved group of indy artists blows up, regardless of the media type. Whether it be music, movies, D&D, etc... Anytime a group meets with seemingly overnight success, the magic is easily lost to a combination of outside influences and the false security of their own egos, thinking that anything they put out will resonate. It doesn't. This season is awful.

my therory: they grew TOO big.i loved C1 as it felt like a tabletop game, you seemed to be watching a group of friends playing a game. As their popularity grow the production value grew as did the casts influence on ttrpg's as a whole. with them leaving geek&sundry during campaign 2 and become their own business the tone shifted to a live play show to being a business. this where for me it started to not be fun. i dont want to watch or read, tie in books, comics, ect etc . behind the scenes they started doing their own book publishing company, i knew it was over, yes it made sense that they would stop using D&D branding things, that with the OGL scandal thing and do something that they owned the total legal rights too made sense, but i felt it spilled over to the writing of c3. I totally know the 3rd campaigns is going to end with all the gods dying or something so that they can continue their own stories with out any of the d&D gods and spell-names and such. i find it very hard to get through campaign 3 and just have the show going on in the background as the characters and the storyline are not interesting. i will not follow critical role into their new campaign and game system as thats not why i watched in the first place

Good speculation. I don’t the did it for tv. The choices players made pushed everything in that direction. I thought season two was CR trying to figure out who they were after VoxM. They pulled different threads but ultimately committed to a few. I’ve seen this in my own campaigns with different groups but cool to see it happen with one group of people.

That's a decent thought, but IMO, the problem is that the story is no longer character driven. A good half of the characters, according to their backstories and motivations, should have joined Ludinous from the start. You put an opportunity to fight against Gods that have literally wronged people, and those people don't take it? At that point the story and the characters no longer feels organic. It's like the end goal is driving it, and not what a character would do. I.E. Why most of Game of Thrones was so engaging, but then wasn't for the last 2 seasons. They had a final goal, and then worked backwards on what they need to do to get there.

I think you’re misunderstanding the theme of the campaign friend. Each campaign is distinctly different, and I suggest you watch C1 to get a good understanding of that. Granted your point about hours of content and production value is true lol. But still worth it for me. C1 is about the trope of DnD and is focused on a party stepping up to the plate to save the world, unified. C2 is about the politics of Exandria, and how the nein got to see and effect that world. C3 is about the history of exandria, and no matter who is in the spotlight, the true main character is Predathos and the gods. BH are essentially just witnesses to the story rather than the story themselves IMO. I’m not personally thinking that they were effected by prime and making a tv series. I feel like they’re just playing the way they want to play. C3 is actually my favorite. The story beats felt more interesting, and I love that the team isn’t hogging story for one person, although Ashton has MC syndrome this time. C1 was Keyleth, and C2 was Caleb.

I don't think you could argue that campaign 2 has a main character, given just how character driven the individual arcs are. Meanwhile, I think it's impossible not to say that Imogen is the main character of campaign 3, given she is the most tied to the main plot.

I only managed to get as far as ~ep30. I LOVED C1 & C2. I was obsessed. I got in late, about ep120 of C2. I watched that then immediately began bingeing from c2ep1 and then each new episode as it aired. Once all was done I binged C1. I was so excited for C3, but after a few eps it just felt off. I think too many character back stories were popping off at once. By ep30, Fresh Cut Grass, Ashton, Fearne, Imogen, Laudna and Orym all had backstory things going on. It was a bit all over the place. Couple that with the cast seemed to decide on the GOTG route, wher pretty much all of them are jokey characters. Its hard to get invested in supposedly tense stories when the characters themselves seem purpose built to alleviate the tension. It just wasn't right. The vibe was different, things from Matt felt more measured, more forced.

So... I think you might be on to something, but I think the motivation and impetus you have given Matt Mercer and Critical Role isn't correct. I don't think they've shifted their narrative structure because they're "too TV minded now." I don't think that's what it is at all. I think Matt Mercer wanted this campaign, and this one, specifically, to focus more on the plot and less on the characters because he intended, going in to this campaign, to "End Exandria" and he wanted THAT to be the focus of the campaign. However, that completely backfired on him and I hope he sees that. You see, I believe the reason viewers were able to connect so much with both Campaigns 1 and 2 is because of the characters and the focus on said characters. Viewers got to know the party members intimately, grow with them, and fall in love with them alongside the cast. And even when Matt had a larger over-arching story to tell (The Chroma Conclave in Campaign 1, for example), he never let those villains or the plot tied to them to over-shadow the character stories. The character stories is what anchored the show in relatability through said characters. They anchored the show, both for the viewers and the players. You can't expect your players, nor your viewers, to invest in your world the story of your world, if you don't allow them to invest in the characters through whose eyes you will be showing your world. Matt balanced the "Story of Exandria" with the "Stories of Vox Machina and The Mighty Nein" near perfectly through Campaigns 1 and 2. But now we come to Campaign 3, Bells Hells. I think the reason so many people fell off the "Bell Hells Train" (myself included) is because, for whatever reason, Matt Mercer put "The Story of Exandria" first and, since that became the focus, there was nothing to anchor the viewers or the players and, thus, nothing for the viewers to invest in. Now I'm not saying the players don't care about what's happening with Exandria and how it's going to end, but it's painfully obvious (at least to me) that the players would much rather delve into each other's characters and learn about each other instead of putting all of their energy and focus into the greater story. Now I do understand that Matt has tried to tie the over-arching story and primary narrative into the origins of, at least, three characters (Fearne, Imogen, and Ashton), but I think he made one major mistake in his execution of this plan From a viewer's perspective and, I think, also from a player's perspective, how can you expect me to care about this greater threat and story involving these characters when I know nothing about them? How can you expect me to care that these characters are tied into the potential "End of The World" when I've barely invested into said characters because you have given me nothing to invest in? And these questions would be echoed in the minds of the players: How can you expect me to care enough about your story to charge headlong into said story when you haven't given me an opportunity to care about the other players' characters? And I think that's what we've been seeing from the players. I think that's why the players appeared to hesitate and "flounder." I think it's because, narratively, they weren't ready to move on. I think they were still looking to flesh out the characters more, learn about the backstories, and I think they were looking for that reason to care enough to say "yes." Which leads us to the other reason, I think, a lot of viewers tuned out and I don't know if Matt is to blame for this or the players or both. But Taliesin said it best: Bell's Hells are a bunch of NPCs that have found themselves in a position they never should have been in. Unlike Vox Machina and The Mighty Nein, Bell's Hells never had any desire to be "heroes" or "to do good." They were just normal, every day, people trying to exist and survive. But more than that, they were the epitome of "NPC" because not a one of them was religious. And, yet, the "Main Story" is "Exandria Potentially Losing Their Gods." So... you have a group of Godless Nobodies being tasked with either saving the Gods or destroying the Gods or forcing the Gods to leave Exandria for good. I'm supposed to buy in to a bunch of random regular people with no ties to the deities of Exandria to care enough to decide said deities' fates. Yeah No. I think THAT is where Critical Role lost people. Especially when it became apparent that the players felt the same way. They said it themselves, "We don't believe in the Gods. We don't care about them. Why should we get involved in this? Why should we make this decision? It's not our decision to make." And I think it all goes back to what I said at the end of the last paragraph: Bells Hells needed a reason to say "yes." They needed a reason to "buy-in" to the Main Story. Moreover, the viewers needed Bells Hells to find that reason to say "yes." The viewers needed Bells Hells to finally "buy-in" to the Main Story. But they never did. And the proof of this is the most recent episode where, even after the players and the characters had decided on a definitive course of action, after they had, supposedly, found their reason to say "yes," at the eleventh hour, Fearne (or maybe it was more Ashley than Fearne) said "no." She hesitated. How can you expect your viewers to invest in and "buy-in" to your story when you have failed to convince your players to do so? And I think that's why Campaign 3, compared to Campaigns 1 and 2, has been a failure. Because Matt Mercer sacrificed the intimacy of the story of the character for the story HE wanted to tell. I also get the feeling that this is one time Matt, probably, should have told his players more than he usually does prior to the start of the Campaign. Because I bet you anything if the players knew what Matt was going for, they would not have a created a team of NPCs. If they had known that Matt was going to be focusing on the over-arching story and that there would be little to no time investing into each individual character and if they had known that this was going be such a Deity-Focused Campaign, they would have made completely different characters that would have fit the campaign for better and hooked the viewers' attention. Campaigns 1 and 2 didn't have to do that because Matt let the characters drive the narrative of the campaigns. But for Campaign 3, the Greater Narrative shoved the Character Narratives into the trunk and was like, "I'm only going to bring you out when it serves me." So yeah. Matt's story concept is interesting. The over-arching narrative IS interesting. And I DO want to see how this ends. However, as you can tell by my essay here, Matt massively flubbed the execution of this campaign, in my opinion.

Not just a departure from Campaign 2, but from Campaign 1 as well. Campaign 2 was different from one, but the same enough in spirit to go from C1 to C2 easily. C3 is much more different than the other two campaigns are from each other.

I tried 3 times to get through the first episode of season 3, but the PCs were insufferable, so I didn’t go back.

IMO they peaked with Campaign 1. I have tried C2 & C3 and found them unwatchable.

Im really enjoying Bells hells tragetory, of course they have some flaws but for me bells hells snd campaign 3 are the most funny and fun to watch compared to campaign 1 and 2, by far

Great video and I also have LOVED the story of C3 and most of the characters have really clicked... but I think the VIBE of C2 is a lot more engaging as were most of the intercharacter dynamics. I love both of them but for VERY different reasons!!! Also Imogen is CLEARLY the main character of C3, not that that's a bad thing, but I mean come on, anyone who's seen all of the games in this campaign and still thinks there's no main PC that the story is built around ... dude!!!! Again, great video my man!!!

2 comments, you're using a lot of changing pictures in this vid, but they are kinda static and don't emphasize the words you are saying very well. I could expand on this with an example if you need one. Secondly, I find it funny you said C03 has little filler bc I find that almost half the run-time is filler. They still have a ton of meaningless conversations and side-mission eps. The whole team building episode can be skipped for the sake of story and there are several like them. Maybe it's relative to C02, but I never watched that one.

I couldn’t get into campaign 3. I found the characters really boring . Now I know why

Honestly i really dont know who you could be reffering to in campaign 2 in your point about players hogging attention? Maybe caleb and beau with how the final beats related most to them but I didnt feel it in the slightest. I would actually say the opposite. One of my biggest problems with c3 is how matt has handled imogens backstory and turned her into a chosen one to the core plot of the game. Yes fearne is also ruidis born but it feels like everyone forgets that half the time and every major decision to progress the story needs to go past imogen whos reluctant to make up her mind on the whole situation so we keep getting the same "do we kill the gods" conversations and the most opinionated characters (ashton and orym) are helpless to make any decisions without imogen as their vessel.

C1 has the best roleplay, the best character arches and the characters had more depths to them. The players didn't shine thru as much. IMHO in season 2 and 3 it just feels like the players are playing themselves with a different skin and are easily interchangeable. Also everything got too happy go lucky. And when villains or challenges appeared is was borderline try-hard edgy that is was comically. CR outplayed itself by making a mockery of themselves.

Of course it could just be that the characters they came up with are a bit boring.

Everyone pushing in the same direction in C3 would have been great. But they didn't. BH have waffled back and forth about what to do about the existential threat, and the story has dragged them along in spite of themselves. And (unpopular opinion) it doesn't make any sense for anyone in a position of power to put the kind of faith and support into a group of adventurers like the way that BH has received. There's no conviction or certitude about what they're doing or why they're doing it. And yet they're thrust into being the big damn heroes by people who ought to know better.

I appreciate your reasoning and agree with you completely. The one element I'd add in is that I'll bet that during Campaign 2, Matt and company realized they'd have much more creative freedom if they stopped using D&D as their basis. With Daggerheart, they're not beholden to any existing ruleset but their own. I'm willing to bet Matt conceived of Campaign 3 as the "let's kill all the gods" campaign, leaving them completely free of any lingering ties to D&D. Daggerheart has its own systems, its own spells, etc., and for sure they'll come up with their own new gods to play with. They can keep using Exandria, as that's Matt's own creation. But that would explain the completely focused feeling of Campaign 3. From the beginning, Matt knew how he wanted it to end. Jury's out on whether or not he communicated this to the cast, but likely he gave them the basic idea. So while they were playing Campaign 3, they've been setting up what comes after in the background. Frankly, I'm still unsure about Daggerheart as a viable system, but I'll watch whatever these guys do next, so I guess we'll see.

I’ve quite enjoyed Campaign 3. It does feel more narrative in tone and like Matt had a clear vision for where the story might end up and built the sessions along the way to serve that larger purpose. However, I don’t believe it was all layers out ahead of time. As Abubakar Salim mentioned in an interview, Matt doesn’t necessarily know were the narrative will go, but I think he’s been especially adept this campaign at redirecting story diversions back to the service of the central conflict. Also I think the collection of more home brew or third party supplement based character abilities and non-standard fantasy characterization, have not been to the taste of some elements of the audience. I have loved the weird eldritch, cosmic and janky world-building presented this season. It feels wholly unique, if highly referential. The Hellcatch and Ruidus content have been particularly interesting.

Not sure why C3 would be set up for a TV show. It will take 6+ years to get through C1 and C2 on Prime. my guess is they have a ton more stuff going on now and have to lazer focus on each of their projects, so sandbox D&D isn't as important for them at this point. Wondering if Daggerheart will replace D&D for C4?

The “could attempt alone” by my understanding, is for things like lockpicking that require tool proficiency to try.

I was fairly into C3 until Matt handed off DM duties. That pretty much ruined my impression of the whole campaign and I really wasn't able to maintain the same connection that I had with the campaign.

Dungeoncraft video Crime & Punishment is excellent for this topic. I just inform my table the game is going to change dramatically into medieval grand theft auto.

🥳🫂👍🏿 I don’t watch actual plays, but I’m happy to help with that algorithm I also like pictures of Jester 🤷🏿‍♀️

I think you're right with the impact making the Amazon shows has had on them. It's also possible, I think, that Matt has known this campaign is going to end with the end of an era in the game world, and all things need to point in that direction for it be loom large enough to feel important. You don't want to squeeze your god-killer stuff in right at the end and expect it to resonate throughout the whole world.