Відео

A simply perfect movie to me

A lot of people I have seen commenting are absolutely convinced that Dune is a simple story of colonialism and exploitation. Paul is a false prophet and Jessica is his enabler, full stop. If that is the case, how is it that Paul gains full abilities to see the future and the past? No normal person has such abilities. Obviously Herbert sets up colonialism and the reckless mining for resources as evils, but that's hardly the end of the story. It's only the beginning.

Wonderful analysis.So glad to have discovered this channel.

Sad to see you go , one of the best UA-cam podcasts around , best of luck in your future endeavors 🙏

These dudes should talk bagels and saving money instead

It's a pity that you guys are ending the podcast, I really love it and I found it so interesting to listen to....Thank you for all the episodes and the work that you put into it. You will be missed!

sad to hear the podcast is over. thank you for the episodes you gave us.

Great analysis. They should include this on the DVD extras.

Good movie, but towards the end when Paul asks the Emperors daughters hand in marriage and the camera cut to Zendaya and her reaction is so....strange/funny that it kinda took me out of the scene. Another was when Paul bested the Harkonen psycho and the quick cut to Stilgar suddenly saying Lisan Al ghaib was so funny. Wonder why they would have done both scenes like that. Strange.

In d&d there are several heavens based on the way you lived, the gods you follow, and what aligns with you as a person. So you kind of go to specific heavens. Speaking with the dead is more like communicating with an echo of that person's soul rather than the spirit itself. But all that is based off just one idea. Anyone can change that to fit how you want your world to be.

You have to question why Steven never officially owns up to his negligence, gets his license to practice taken away, & goes to jail, which would be justice, but both he & Anna brush Steven’s culpability under the carpet, by refusing to go to the police in order to stop Martin from fulfilling his plan. They don’t want to own up to their responsibility. Neither parent offers their life in place of the life of one of their children. Again, screwing the kids over, so they can live the life they want. And people think Martin is so evil…🙄 They’re worse. Maybe Martin is an avenging angel (after all, he knows things he shouldn’t know, and can do things no one should be able to do - is that what the “floating camera” angle that seems to be a God’s-eye-view of certain scenes is? Martin watching or God watching and sending Martin to avenge?). In the end, it seems Kim & Martin may have plans. After all, Martin knows the good doctor killed one of his own children, so he has leverage.

To me “The Killing of a Sacred Deer” is an allegory about the sacrifice of our children’s generation, to the climate change we refuse to address accordingly, in order to satisfy our ambitions of status and the unsustainable lifestyle we enjoy. It is at the next generation’s expense, and it will kill them.

Your Imax probably isn’t broken, thats just their trick. Very loud to the point of discomfort.

Wtaf? Genuinely moved at a couple of moments. Feel sorry for you bro

*spoilers* Duncan Idaho is the longest running character throughout the novels, so I could see him being highlighted as a hopeful figure

this movie gives me hardcore anarchist/anarcho-nihilist/egoist vibes tbh

I feel both Toms got a bit stuck in the weeds with their respective analyses of the film in dissecting character foils and story structure, etc, or perhaps I am being a jerk because I wanted more of a grappling with the existential themes of the story. The story's ideas on imperialism and the nature and value of religion and faith, and how it can be weaponized as the Bene Gesserit have by planting myths of a messiah long before Paul came along were I think the direction I really wanted Tom and Thomas to dissect. The story has alot to think about on the existence of freedom vs determinism, on utilitarianism in doing terrible things for a quote on quote greater good, on the tragedy of knowing what path the future will take but being powerless to avert it. I feel religion is treated in a very interesting way in this story, because it's both a tool of the state and IS the state in a sense

Feyd fate? Dune doom? Hayt hate? Book readers know

My favourite movie enthusiasts talking together. Brilliant. I just cannot get enough of this movie.

Very sad that you Gents have made that decision to cease these podcasts. You work so well together and love your discussions.

This for me is the upmost highest quality film podcast/discussion panel out there so I’m so sad to hear it’s going away but I did just want to say your hard work, and insights did not go unnoticed. Head and shoulders above a lot of other movie discussion programs so hats off to you two!

I agree with your interpretation of Chani at the end. Her departure very much reminded me of "the ones who walk away from Omelas" - she is willing to allow Paul's project to continue on its trajectory, but refuses to be a part of this project. And she sees that the only way to do that is to leave.

It would have been a masterpiece without the de-aging. What an absolutely brutal decision to cast those old timers. Imagine this movie with a Tom Hardy or someone middle aged who could easily be made to look older. As you point out- perhaps this was all an intentional decision by Scorcese... almost had to be it was so blatantly terrible. I wonder what his thoughts were sitting in the editing room watching a decrepit deniro pretending to lay down a curb stomp- so cringy... probably regret.

just discovered this podcast - sad that this is the end! but I will be checking out your back catalog! hope to see y'all when Dune Messiah comes out!

At first blush it would seem that the Fremen's belief in the Lisan al Gaib is false and comes to nothing, but it also all happens as prophesied. The prophecies are fulfilled, including that the Lisan Al Gaib would lead them to freedom. I don't think it's super clear cut.

25:23 I'd say the greatest conflict of the story is Paul vs his destiny (his "terrible purpose" as it's called in the book) which he is fighting the whole time. In this sense, Paul is defeated at the end of Part 2, which is depicted in his delivery of his last line when he tells Stilgar to "Lead them to Paradise." and the great sadness in it.

I agree about the difference between being able to connect with the characters of dune less compared to the characters of LOTR. I also think this matches the experience of reading the books, so in this way, both adaptations are pretty accurate.

Fascinating that you guys missed what constitutes the entire energy of the movie. To be fair though, it seems Villeneuve and even Herbert want to deny that -- the will to power.

Re the prophecies being real or artificial: there's an appendix in the novel that explores the motives of the Bene Gesserit. It concludes that the BG were, including their breeding program, operating under the influence of forces that they were unaware of. I take this to mean that Frank Herbert implies that the human race itself has a collective unconscious that is pushing towards the goal of the Kwisatz Haderach (or something like it) and that the prophecies too might have a similarly both artificial and "genuine" nature. BG would then just have been a tool of the unconscious drives. Of course, we could still speculate as to what extent BG interference shaped the result, or if they merely accelerated something that would have happened anyway.

Rating how great a film is should include how many times a movie is watched again. I doubt many people have seen this twice. Placing this over Citizen Kane and Battleship Potempkin or Sunset and a hundred other films is ridiculous. How is Citizen Kane still not the best ever made. It was so far ahead of it's time in almost every category of filmmaking.

Upon watching both Dune films, and hearing you mention how conflict shows up differently in these films(which I totally agree with), I am getting some strong Kishotenketsu energy from this story as a whole. Kishotenketsu is an eastern plot structure more commonly used in anime that approaches story-telling in a way that changes the way the story focues on conflict. In some verisons of Kishotenketsu, there is no conflict, just a story that happens to the "protagnonist" and its more about how they respond and grow as a result of the challenges they face. Loved Dune 2 and excited for a rewatch

See you in 2027!

Faux imax is such a scam. It genuinely worsens every movie experience imo. I was lucky enough to see it in 70MM and you could truly tell the care they put into making it work for the format

39:00 yes Chani’s line about seeing the spice in the air when the sun is low was the opening line of Part One. Paul visibly reacts when she says it, implying he had heard it in his dreams.

Thanks for this discussion. I'm currently obsessed with the movies and the lore and would like to jump in in some of the themes discussed here: To start with, you guys said something about the emotional nuance and lack of breathing room to some emotional moments, like when Paul decided to go to the south. I think that most of the emotional nuance was already established in the first movie. Therefore, I understand that in this movie it wasn't as prominent, because we can see in the first movie already (that scene with Paul and Jessica in the tent for example) how Paul struggles with what he has to become and do to guide the Fremen on the "right" path, which was extended in the second movie to the decision of going to the south or not. Then you guys also gave the impression that you thought that Paul made a 180 degrees turn in the movie, but I don't see it like that. Up until the very end there is conflict inside him I believe. For example the scene where he speaks in front of many Fremen and their leaders. Although he seems to fully embrace his destiny, I saw it more as a performance. This is what his upbringing and the schemes around him culminated in, him becoming a leader of the Fremen. He never wanted it though (scene with his father in first movie) and still doesn't, but becomes what all the forces around him pushes him to be. Paul is just as much a slave of the prophecy as the Fremen are. Talking about the prophecy, Tom talked about him not fully understanding the connection between the Kwizats Haderach and Lisan al Gaib. So, how I see it is that indeed, Paul really is unique and the Kwizats Haderach, however, this fact is being used by the Bene Gesserit as a means for power and control over, in this case, the Fremen through the personification of the Lisan al Gaib. These concepts are there as a point of reflection, imo, about how forces in power are able to manipulate vulnerable communities in society through propaganda. Also, I think it's only fair to contemplate about how religion is often used as justification for violence and how, specially in our own past, it has been a very efficient medium to mobilize a large group of people towards a singular goal. Lastly, a lack of hope in the movie was mentioned, however, I see Chani as the personification of hope in this story. She's the only one able to see through Paul's performance, immune to the propaganda and adoration amongst her own people towards Paul and seen in the final scenes staying behind in Arrakis, not participating in his jihad. She's the only one acting truly in the interest of her own people, unfettered by selfish goals or outside expectations.

to add to his speculation about Paul being unsure for a moment if he can win his fight against Feuyd, in the books he doesn't actually know also. it makes reference to the place being a temporal nexus where anything can happen. so he still had to actually win and not just act out the part so your speculation is both your head canon and canon :)

So sad that you're ending the podcast since I just discovered this podcast a couple weeks ago, but had a feeling that might be the case since it had been months since the last episode. Also, what happened to most of the episodes on Nebula? On your first episode you guys talk about being on Nebula but first episode on Nebula is the Wind River episode which from May 18th 2023. Anyways though, sad that you two are ending this podcast but as you guys say you guys are still doing your own things which are still great. Hope to see you guys comeback for special occasions and such.

Guys, you should not confound tragedy with cynicism. Paul has essentially a tragic story. He sees the future, but very imperfectly, he is not really sure if this can or cannot be avoided .But then the Empire strikes back, and he understands clearly that the Empire is going to destroy the Freeman the planet and himself, unless he takes the water of life; only after that, he can see perfectly the future, and only then he sees that this will lead to the universal jihad, but at that point, his destiny is written at the same time that he finally sees the future, but he cannot change it. And that’s tragic, and this is the thread that is developed in the following books. But of course, no one can see the future, and this is just a literary device just as the classical tragedies.

Love podcast from the beginning, so sad to hear it's over. Thank you both for bringing us so much great discussions, looking forward to your collaboration again!

:( why do all my favourite podcasts end

Also, am I the only person online who finds a fetus who acts as a person an incredibly idiotic idea to put in a blockbuster in a current age when conservatives are attacking basic human rights?

Dune: Part 2 doesn't compare to the first one. The first one is sooo much better. I've watched the first Dune 3 times so far. And every time it was effortless (It's a 155 minute film). The second part has some very janky editing. Soundtrack isn't following the story as it should. Cinematography is a touch worse than it was in the first one. If I'm being honest - I have a feeling that Villeneuve thought he was making a two-parter, but studios came in and offered him more money to make it a trilogy. That's why I think Part 2 doesn't work as well as the first film. I might be wrong but his first Dune is comparable to his Blade Runner - they were both works of art. Dune: Part 2 falls short. Dune: Part 2 has (at times) very bad editing, it sometimes has long boring fight scenes and at times it just doesn't care about world-consistency. So, tl;dr - Dune: Part 2 is a lot worse than Dune (2021). It's still a good movie but nowhere near as good as the first one.

your podcast was a great companion to my cooking my supper. Your analysis always felt well-focused and very sensitive. There are few such podcasts headed by a duo of commentators that discuss the movie from separate points of view, with relevant comparisons to other works, and don't just make funny faces at the camera. Like younger Roger and Ebert. I hope for some better conditions in the near future.

45:06 I watched only Villeneuve's movies and some youtube lore videos, so I am not sure my thoughts are correct. But I understood it like this: Guided by the visions of future, Bene Gesserit planted an idea of Lisan al Gaib in the minds of fremen to make Kwisatz Haderach' journey easier. In a way, Lisan al Gaib is true - the man IS Kwisatz Haderach but also a lie - the fremen don't need Lisan al Gaib/Kwisatz Haderach to free themselves

It's been interesting, watching people fail to understand the underlying theme of Dune so blatantly. It's an explicitly anarchist story. The book Dune is told from the perspective of Paul and Jessica, making them the protagonists of the story, but they are hardly better for their subjects than the Harkonnen were, or the emperor. In some ways, many even as the story explores, they're actually worse. They're villains too. That's the point of the story. You should be skeptical of Messiahs, of organized power structures like religion and feudalism, and more generally of unjustified hierarchy in all its forms. <-- That's the story. It's a very good movie, they did an amazing job with the visuals especially. The screenplay needed some more work in my opinion.

I hate goodbyes. With my age, when something that I love ends, I feel that I am also closer to the ending. I wish you both the best in your life and work. With great care, rui

i watched the movie three times now (1 in imax-my first ever imax and woah what a life changing experience), and i feel like the first time i watched it the pacing problems sort of left me confused, especially not having read the books and not knowing what to expect, but the second watch really made everything fall into place and make sense. it’s a movie that requires more watches to be fully appreciated, and it’s so grand that it does feel like watching another lotr level saga. i mean ive never been compelled to rewatch something in the theater more than twice so

Damn why am I discovering this at its end?? Aw well, time to watch the backlog lol.

Spoiler for the book: something ommitted from the movie. I strongly recommend reading the book before reading my comment. I believe including baby Leto 1.5 could gave strengthened Feyd, Chani, Paul VERY much. Each would greatly benefit in emotion from including him. Feyd specifically could have come to Sietch Tabr and killed Leto. Chani would have an even stronger reason than Shishakli to go to war following Paul even though she didn't want him to lead. And finally Paul! Paul would have had a truly personal reason for everything, and his hate for the Harkonnens and emprie desire for vengeance would be perfectly encapsulated in losing a Leto again. It could stand in for the fact he didn't forsee Gurney's betrayal in the book, instead he could have not forseen the loss of his sonand thus thta would motivate his final shift which otherwise is a fairly weak motive in the movie. This would affect Alia, lengthen the timeline, and require Chani and Paul to grow much closer (but their closeness would be a good thing I think). I get that Alia being born would mess up the story, but if Leto 1.5 isn't even in Messiah then I feel it was a wasted opportunity not to embed much stronger emotion into act 3 of this movie.

58:00 This point is apparently why JRR Tolkien disliked Dune when he read it.