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Can someone clarify from him if the hadza diet was fatty meat or real lean meat. So was their diet low fat iron hight fat

1:02:00 where can I find the temperature profile info

Is there a difference between on how or whether you should employee these things differently if you are in a humid vs dry environment?

50+ endurance athlete here, live and train in south Louisiana where the heat and humidity are significant factors during training for most of the year. The information provided was scientifically based and exactly what I was seeking to determine whether or not to supplement with creatine. I’m on board!! Thanks

The coffee-infused gives me life!

Thank you for this great info, I’m running the race and I’m both terrified and elated!!

Great info - so helpful!

Amazing sauna at High Altitude Fitness Climbing Gym in Truckee.

This is great! I loved every minute. Probably the closest I'll ever get to running Western States.

Thanks for another great conversation! Running WS100 is a dream of mine. Hopefully I'll be lucky with the lottery next time. However, I'll not be able to afford a crew or a pacer for that matter. What are your thoughts on this type of scenario? Traveling from Europe eventually.

How crazy would someone have to be to attempt States without crew/pacer?

Awesome ! A lot of great information

Love AJW!

AJW is the man...

Fascinating discussion

A few people have been saying this is a none comparison between Untapped and Spring and other "natural" sports nutrition companies (I would like to see Koop interview other companies as well just like he does with Doug) but that is doing Doug's business a huge disservice. Yes, more ingredients add more complexity to the calculation of the nutrition label and the variability from that label but Doug explained how a company would come as close as possible to getting there, and since his business is focused on one main carb source he was able to explain brilliantly in depth and in detail of just one ingredient. Using some logic you can apply everything he said to other companies products and how they would work with multiple ingredients, if he was working with 5 different carb sources it would be no different, just repeating the same steps as he said. You need to create a spec for your product, create procedures to get your supplies within that spec if they are not within spec and pay extra and use a reputable supplier, and get a certificate of quality assurance that states the product is within a certain range of macronutrients, test the supplies yourself (water content is the big one, using spring awesome sauce as an example, they should be checking the water content of the cooked rice, apple sauce, yams and maple syrup, more water means less caloric density, as well having certificates of quality assurance from each of the suppliers), if the water content is too high they can mix it with a lower water content batch or cook the water off until it's within their spec and giving a more homogeneous product. Send the finished product it in for the full scale testing at least once or whatever the industry standard is, then if your suppliers say there is a 5% variance of the products carb content and calories, for good measurement use the lower number, calculate the lowball carb/calorie the supplier stated and subtract difference from the test, repeat for each ingredient and its low ball number, and then you have a product that should almost always be within spec (if nota little higher but since it's difficult and unrealistic to get all of the product out of package it will most likely even out) if their is no major mess ups in production or ingredient changes. It really doesn't matter if its 1 ingredient or 5 or 10, it's never going to be over a 30% difference.

definitely one of the best

I enjoyed hearing from Doug. I would be pretty confident using his product. But that’s a much simpler product than Spring, right? Why not talk to someone from a more comparable brand? Maybe Hammer, Huma, or Honey Stinger.

Applause to this CEO for being willing to be transparent in a open forum about his product and their production processes! Maybe the CEO of Spring will come on here soon...

I love how Spring is essentially silent, and meanwhile you get an interview with a company selling maple syrup as packaged sport nutrition. Just... wow. Spring really doesn't want to right the ship huh... talk about a missed opportunity.

I'm pissed off...I DNFd my first 50k tied down with spring energy gels.

Maybe it would be good for all the supplement companies to release lab results just for transparency.

This seems related to the "Bike shed" principle. The idea is that it's easier to get approval for a nuclear reactor than a bike shed. Everyone figures if you're building a nuclear then you must have done your research and planned it, and what do we know about building a nuclear reactor? But a bike shed? EVERYONE has an opinion on how to build something simple like a bike shed, so everyone weighs in. That is, calorie content is such a big deal, we don't bother to question it. Someone must have confirmed it, right?

I’ll just buy and consume three times as many Spring Energy Gels now. Thank you for the research!

I've got to wonder how Spring's pro athletes didn't realize the deficiencies of the product. I mean, they have extensive experience with other products, without a doubt... and extensive understanding of how their bodies react to each. They must have realized it was a bunk product and intake had to be almost doubled from the nutritional facts in order to meet requirements... I'm a bit surprised some of them stuck with it and represented them for so long.

They deserve to go bankrupt. They Have been cheating/ stealing from people for years. Fuck Spring Energy!

Thank you Jason for putting this out! Very informative and I agree - worth being a big issue especially if youre an elite athlete!

Very informative episode, thank you. It's surprising me that the company statement tries to explain the error away as variation (noise), rather than bias. Even IF that were true (I don't think it is, for reasons explained in the discussion) and the carb content were thus on average close to the nutrition label, error in the form of variation might well be worse than bias. You could adjust for bias (once you identified the bias) by eating an additional gel per hour. With higher variation, things are less predictable: eat two gels in an hour; you could end up getting much less carb than you need, or more carbs than you can stomach. Compare with: "If two felons who both should be sentenced to five years in prison receive sentences of three years and seven years, justice has not, on average, been done. In noisy systems, errors do not cancel out. They add up." ('Noise' by Daniel Kahneman, Olivier Sibony, Cass R. Sunstein.)

This situation brings many questions to the forefront of my mind and I’ll list them here. First, when and who (which lab) certified the 1st Spring nutrition label? Second, how often does a product need to be re-certified? I assume processes and ingredients, if not suppliers of ingredients, change so it would make sense that the certification should be reassessed periodically, right? I would like Spring to answer at least what they have done (certification and the lab). If it was a lab error, Spring is arguably innocent, right? I saw an earlier comment which I also thought, didn’t the athletes train with the products they will race with? So if they didn’t get their carbs in training wouldn’t they have sensed something wrong well before the race Koop? You can answer to that at least. My final question which is big, if Spring is so off, let’s test other nutritional gels because maybe this is an industry-wide practice whether consciously or not. Koop, please test other brands products and let us know what those results are as well. Spring might be the lightning rod but maybe they are no different from every other brands’ products in terms of of faulty nutritional labeling.

Didn;t these athletes train with the product???

So why did you send the products in the first place??? Did you just start to question the product???

thanks for covering this. very interesting episode. 40% less than stated value is absurd and negligent if it's the case for a substantial amount of their product.

From an ethical standpoint coaches should not accept sponsorships so that their athletes can be confident there is no financial bias behind the coach's recommendations.

Koop, what you gonna use at Mogollon? I’ll be out there with you.

I wish the Instagram release was as professional as this pod. This is what people need to hear. It matters when people lie about products. It matters when coaches and athletes pretend to know more than they do to promote themselves or a product. Hopefully everyone can calm down emotions (because they didn’t like how the message was communicated), and see what the real issues are here.

this is tragic for all the athletes and race directors who relied on this product. I personally had my biggest bonk ever using Spring energy at a Spring energy sponsored Tahoe 200.

In hindsight, their claim that SpringEnergy does not cause GI distress strikes me as quite perfidious. Yes, of course you won't have any GI issues if you only consume 10g of carbs per gel.

I often wonder what app can be designed to tell me the nutritional profile of stuff like my homemade meat stocks. After cooking meat stocks, I blend up all of the skin, cartledge, bone marrow, and other soft tissues, then stir that into the meat stock. Sometimes I include cooked vegetables I blend up if I want a thicker soup. Or Raw egg yolk stired into my vanilla whey protien, 1/2 tsp vanilla, pinch salt, shake of nutmeg, the egg white foamed up sweetened with stevia for the top and sprinkle with nutmeg. Or wild sockeye salmon I like to ferment and have with sliced steamed carrots and beets, with homemade kefir cheese. Where do I find the nutrient profile for that kind of snack? I wouldn't know if I require supplements.

Super helpful and informative interview. Thank you.

Interesting concept! I've personalized my training plan based on a 100k training plan by Sarah Mccormack on the innov8 website. A few of the workouts are hard hill reps (4 x 2 mins) straight into a 20-30 minute tempo run. Sounds like that workout fits the clip description of a high-stress start into a more medium stress finish, but on an even shorter scale.

I know this is an anecdote and totally unscientific, when I take collagen peptides regularly for a long enough time, like a month or two, I start to notice that my hair and nails are growing much faster than usual. It suggests to me that something is going on there. You didn't bring up any distinction between collagen and collagen peptides. And I thought could have asked more questions around duration of supplementation. We know already that tendons and ligaments adapt and heal very slowly compared to muscles.

I used HVMN Ketone IQ (wich is different to the product shown here)for my marathon (and training) last year. I mainly saw it as a way to indigest extra calories during the event, but it turned out I found other benefits even more valuable. First of all my brain seems to love it and I become more happy and in the momemt, so mentally it seems to give a boost. Second I found that the day after hard training and the marathon itself I felt really good and had no muscle pains etc. So for me it seems to benefit my revovery. Bought a few new bottles for my upcomming Ultra training. But this is just my N=1

What is the difference between 15hrs/week for 6-12 weeks before an event/race, and 10hrs/week consistently over many months or years?

An aspect unique to ultrarunning occurred to me just today as I contemplated my drop bag strategy for Canyons, taking into account everything that will be available at aid stations, and that is as an athlete who doesn't have to worry about doping regs, I can take whatever is offered at aid stations. But consider the high profile Olympian who will be running through some of the same aid stations- can she take any unpackaged aid without concern that it could be tainted? Elite marathoners have their own bottles, which fall under a strict chain of custody. The came can't be said for the jug of water a volunteer filled with a hose the night before. Will inevitable stricter scrutiny change how aid stations work, especially for the elites?

TSS is great for working out calories required but 60 minutes max effort has a much different macro burned ratio than 2.5hrs of endurance pace. Your going to burn way more glycogen during a 60 minute max effort than you are a 2.5hr endurance session where a well trained athlete could be burning almost 100% fat.

With a free market (no patents on equipment and supplies), I bet the testing costs would drop...

It's all just political theater to give the illusion of clean sports. In-competition tests can be passed by reading the Laurent Martin 2021 paper. The biological passport hasn't been updated to the groundbreaking Holly Cox 2021 paper because the test is too good and would catch too many dopers. WADA has good research on detecting AICAR, but it's suspiciously missing from their legal and technical documents.

It’s still shocking to me that Badwater does NOT drug test and even the USATF 100 mile “championships” this year did NOT drug test. Cannot be a legit race without drug testing as we have learned from every other sport. And fantastic podcast!!

I know a ton to pack in and you can't cover it all, but I think just watching this people would be left with an impression of out of competition testing that is overly onus on the athletes. In fact they only have to list a specific location they'll be at for an hour a day- typically when they know they'll be home. And they can update that a day in advance with an app or a text message. They don't have to predict every minute of every day. They just have to be reasonably available and predictable. If they're in the area, they can update their exact location when notified and be tested wherever they are: (Full disclosure, what I gleaned rom Des Linden and Kara Goucher on the "Nobody Asked Us" podcast)

You know my main question is...Who is this big act even for?The entire audience of professional sports knows that all these athletes are on performance-enhancing drugs, especially the one's winning.So who is usada and Wada even putting on this show for when we all know they can't actually catch anyone?