Best bike fit content on UA-cam, hands down. Nothing beats this. The catalog of fit videos you two have compiled over the years is not only impressive, but so incredibly valuable to cyclists.
@@CamNicholls I’m having trouble with my Left ankle falling in striking the crank arm. Don’t know if it’s the Shimano pedals I currently have trying to figure it out.
@@tony5269Adjusting the left cleat to move the left heel out slightly to compensate is a good starting point . I have seen this with a client of my bicycle repair business . Changing Q - Factor between the pedals is a bit more involved . Really needs to be assessed in person to avoid unwanted side - effects .
If you forget the bio mechanics (I run completely fixed pedals), the mechanical setup of the Shimano is much better, it is much less likely to be bend vs the Look. The look uses quite a slender deep groove ball bearing to manage the sideways load and the load near the pedal threads. In contrast, the Shimano (Dura ace) uses an angular contact bearing with quite a heavy contact angle for the same purpose so it's much stiffer. However, as far as bullet proof pedals. The older generation Time ATACS were very well engineered.
Yeah, after 25 years on various iterations of Looks, I switched to Shimano because I got sick of how quickly Looks develop play in the bearings (seemingly almost as soon as they are ridden).
The spd-sl cleat is so big it's much more likely to be pulled too flat or too curvy by a shoe sole....especially tiny shoes. Then your float may be draggy.
Neil you are the best! I've learned so much from your presentations over the years. You've helped me get the right equipment and to know why I'm getting it. Thanks ✌️
I can highly recommend Neill for a bike fit. Just had my appointment last weekend. Very professional and quickly diagnosed my bike set-up issues. I loved the Assioma DUO pedals for the value and the ability to swap between bikes with ease etc, but I should have held off on the purchase until after the bike fit appointment. I required a wider Q factor than I can get with the Assioma's. Neill put me on to the SQ lab pedals to achieve this. They still use the Look Cleat system. Love the videos, great content. Cheers.
I have been thinking of making trip to get a fit, living in lower Victoria it is a big committment for a bike fit. Have hip FAI and lower back is nasty.
The Assioma Shimano pedals where you actually swap the spindles result in a significantly wider Q factor than the normal Assiomas (65mm). Might want to try that!
I have been a lifetime user of the Look system, I literally went from 'clips and straps' to the first generation Look pedals. These days I am a very, very happy user of a set of Assioma Dual pedals. They are absolutely bulletproof and in my mind, the gold standard of power meters.
I am really grateful for knowledge you share with us. I recently adjusted my riding position (saddle and its position, cleats and their position incl. shims) and can now ride even 200 km without any saddle sore. Thanks to Cam, Neill and Selle Italia SLR.
I took a very scientific approach when I made the move to road pedals. My local bike shop was having a sale on Look pedals and cleats, so I bought 'em and have been with them ever since.😄
When I first got my Favero pedals, I still had Shimano Cleats on my shoes and without knowing better, I kept using them, since the pedal systems look so similar. They clipped in very tight, there was no float at all, and unclipping needed some - not too much - force, but it actually worked. They didn't even seem to wear out especially quickly. Of course, when I replaced them, I used the correct ones and I have to admit: this combination works far better. Just wanted to state out how extremely similar those systems are.
Always had ankle stability issues with Speedplay, even the Zeroes, especially when out of the saddle. I didn't realize how fatiguing it was until I rented a bike and forgot to bring my pedals. I ended up buying cleats to work with their SPD-SL pedals. The benefit of having a solid platform with controlled float under my feet was palpable.
Because of your video and Neel, I found the form company that makes Shims for SPD pedal. Just started using it and feels like I can put more even power from both my legs.
Important point of difference in adjustment speedplay adjust planes independently, 3 bolt options angle adjust can impact fore / aft left right... as long as accounted for all good... great video...
Made the same change about 3 years ago - I use a cleat with float to protect my knees, the cleats are cheap to replace (LOOK). I used speed play for years but their pricing became ridiculous and the Assioma is bloody awesome. I laughed when I saw the price of the speed play power pedal and associated cleats which will need replacing!!
Thanks for sharing on the thread Greg, and interesting points. I use the cleat with float too. While my position is a lot better than it once was, I still like some movement!
I have two pairs of Assioma pedals and, I agree, they are excellent. I use the grey (4.5 float) Look Keo cleats. I tried the black Look (0 float) cleats and the Xpedo cleats, but didn't like them.
I've been using Assioma pedals for several years now and I love them. Very accurate and at a great price. When they finally updated the pedals to auto calibrate, I was even more in love. And being able to swap them over to my gravel bike is just another great feature. Disclaimer: If you do swap these pedals over to another bike, you do need to calibrate them before the first ride, but then they're good. Same with swapping them back. Just charge them up every so often and enjoy the ride! Great video Cam.
Thanks for sharing on the thread mate. I am yet to hear anyone say something negative about Assioma. Even their tech support has proven to be a winner, when and if required. Cheers
Switched from SPD-SL to Look when I picked up some Assiomas about 6 years ago. They have been flawless, with none of the battery door issues that Garmin or Powertap have had.
Thanks for sharing that on the thread Andrew. I've a got mate who's onto is third pair of Garmin power pedals. To be fair, Garmin have replaced the pedals with issues, but there's something not right there. Cheers
I have tried Assioma (Uno) pedals and one of the issues I had was how freely the pedals spin. Yes, I was new to clip-in pedals in general (toe clips ftw :D), but now with regular Look pedals I feel much more comfortable.
From my experience, the Look cleats don't work with the Assioma pedal bodies as well as the supplied cleats. They tend to feel harder to clip out. Also, the feel of the float is different too. I think the shape of the cleats is slightly different.
When I got my Assioma pedals I didn't switch cleats which were Look, and while I've heard the same thing you're saying from others as well, I find them to work great and find them very easy to clip in.
About 3 years ago, i switched from using r8000 Shimano ultegra pedals to Assioma duo. I think there are many Advantages of the Shimano Pedal (system). Starting at the Center of gravity of the pedal, which makes clipping in at the Shimano pedals much easier, the connection between pedals and shoe feels more stable and at least the shimano cleats are much more durable and stable while walking. The only reason why i use the Assioma is the Powermeter.
Same with me, I have both Shimano and Assioma, I love the Assioma as a power pedal but not the Look style cleat. For some reason getting into the Look style cleat is a pain for me.
I used Shimano Ultegra pedals for a while, then Look Keo blades and was perfectly happy with both. I then switched to Garmin Vector pedals, and had them both with Keo style and Shimano bodies. For Garmin vector pedals, where both the Keo and Shimano options have the same stack height and Q factor, I must say I prefer the Shimano cleats - less creaking sounds, more stable while walking, less slippery and more durable. However, for the Favero Assioma pedals where the Shimano option adds so much Q factor, Shimano cleats are not worth it and I would stay with the Keo. In summary, all being the same I prefer the Shimano cleats for the reasons I mentioned, but the difference is quite small so they are not worth compromising in the bike fitting.
I changed from shimano to look around 2017/18, and never looked back. Few months ago I decided to try XTR pedal to minimize near miss incidents in public toilets, but after few tries I experienced knee pain and changed back to my look system. ✌🏾
When I got back into cycling as an adult and on a road bike, I started with Look Keo Pedals and cleats, mainly on recommendation from the bike shop where I bought the bike from. I then swapped to speed play several years later after having constant problems clipping in. I was able to get a pair of speed play on sale for a really great price, so that sealed the swap. It has now been about 12 years on speed play, and I really have not had any issues, including several bike fits, a new bike, and several pairs of shoes. I believe I am lucky because I don't have any discrepancies in leg length, so I could choose any pedal system, but I will stick with Speed Play. I must admit I do like the sound of the Wahoo Speed Play Power pedals, although I have no real need for a power meter.
I've been on Look pedals since 1985, the year that they first came out! They were a little heavy back then, but they were definitely on to something good 😁
I came here because of the title. Ive been on speedplay since 2002. Im now ready for a power meter and started looking at the pedal option versus the crank arm. There are several options obviously but as a speedplay user I thought it was the only pedal I would ever use. So I started watching your video and at the 1:55 mark, I thought, oh ok I get the title now. Also quit and moved on but I thought I should keep an open mind and watch to the end. I too learned to apply a shim for my 4mm leg length discrepancy but the float is still somethimg I like. So to here there is some float ability in the Blades (if i heard corrcetly) it's something Im considering. Anyway, sorry I miss judged you in the beggining, that you might be biasis because of a sponsor. The Assiomas will be cheaper but its going to be hard to give up 22yrs of a system. Good video.
As soon as Assioma released the Duo Shi I made the switch from a crank arm based power meter. So much less faff and the extra Q factor of the Shi system was perfect coming from the wide fit R8000 pedals.
I ran Speedplay for a while but kept having self-disassembly issues with the cleats. (And I tried both flavors of Loc-Tite.) I went to Shimano Dura-Ace and love them.
I have 2 max look pedals for 4 years, i m gonna by power meter pedals, and i broke my mind speed play or assioma. I was thinking of speedplay for more easy use, but assioma, i think, ged the credits. please help...🤣 Thanks to your advice on bike fitting, finally, i managed to find my position and feel more powerful. Excellent videos,by the way, you helped me to understand. Many things. Keep going 💪 cheers 🍻!!!
Your 10.5mm stack height quote shown on 7:47 for Assioma is pedal only. That doesn't include the cleats. Look cleat is like 6-7mm thick. Dura-ace pedal is 13.5mm all in, cleat and pedal. I like Shimano more, just because it's thinner. Pedal stack on Dura-ace pedal is already thinner. And SPD-SL cleat is also thinner than Look cleat as well.
Do you happen to know what the stack height for the ultegra pedals and the spd sl cleats are? The values i find online vary tremendously from each other
I changed from Look to Time Xpresso some years ago and I never regret it, imo they are way better! ...sadly they don't make a powermeter version, and so don't any other company for that system, but if you use a crank based PM, Time is great!!!
Shimano licensed the Keo cleat pedal patent design from Look. When Shimano released their SPD-SL road pedals. This is why Look Keo cleats looks similar to Shimano SPD-SL. Patents designs expire after 15 years. After that anyone can use and copy the design. Look Keo pedals were launched in 1984. So the patents would have expired in 1999. This is why there many 3rd party pedals with Look Keo, Shimano SPD and SPD-SL in the market today.
Favero Assioma is excellent as a power meter. The big downside for me is that the pedal body (made of plain plastic) gets worn out after 6-9 months, and the float gets bigger and bigger. If a bigger float is a problem for you, you would need to buy a new pedal body every year. Plus the side that you are unclipping more often gets worn out faster, and the difference between the left and right pedal is very noticeable.
Another nice bonus is the Xpedo/Assioma cleats are rebranded Wellgo RC7, which can be found very, very cheaply. Shimano cleats are highway robbery by comparison.
Hey Cam, as an owner of the assiomas and the speedplays i am surprised that a powerful rider like yourself doesn't find the assiomas to be very soft and especially kicking out of the corner with +500w... but for most beginner cyclists and non-racing purposes the assiomas are fantastic! (Except for the "winterprofenes" of their battery)
One thing that is often overlooked is trying to fix the length length variation. many can be fixed long-term with some basic chiropractor work to hips and ankles. This will have a positive effect on all aspects of life. not just cycling with shims.
The main issue with the chiropractor for many folks would be if it is an inherent length problem. Within a few days my hips will find their natural state. A few mm doesn't equate on either side, may not matter. If there is a discomfort area, the problem can be located somewhere else. Been riding for well over 55 years. Bike fits are good, learn the art oneself to find comfort. If there is underlying discomfort, yes the bike and you may need help but more than likely it will be one's skeletal muscle tone or other underlying inadequacies that may be hampering comfort. The fit would ascertain any relevant problems with geometry, after which one could see if those physical conditions continue. I would conclude though, this is only relevant to those who may ride a high amount of miles and are generally in fairly good physical condition. Great content.
Would have been interesting to see the new Look blades that just came out. I like a wide pedal since I’m a 49 wide foot. Dura-ace and Ultegra have an extended axle version. I’d like more float though.
Love the video and Neil's expertise congratulations on the sponsorship well deserved what's with the Inform Stannard kit ? lets know please Cam the RCA group the best for any cyclists so many arms to it..
I have had Assioma pedals since 2019 (30k miles on them) and had to have both spindles replaced last year to due battery failure. Now I have yet another battery failure on my left pedal and Assioma want me to pay to replace....They said the replacement part comes with 24 month warranty......so the spindles that where replaced last year should be covered from this yet 3rd battery failure. Their tech support and customer service has been super slow and they are not fully review my issues. As of now I would not recommend Assioma pedals due to battery issues and support.
I love my Assioma Duo pedals. Only complaint is the cleats that arrived with the pedals didn't have non slip pads. Walking on some surfaces was a big risk. Used Look cleats... problem solved.
Watching these videos stresses me out, I need a bike fit to get myself sorted but I'm afraid of wasting money because I can't imagine any of the fitters in my area have anywhere this level of knowledge and skill. Guess I just need to give it a go.
@@taylorbruch4703 since this comment I replaced the bike with a larger frame that fit me better, made some other changes and saw a physio. This sorted my knee issue that I was having at the time and I've got no other problems for now.
Good look with that. I broke 3 pedals over the time of one year. Their bearings are absolute trash. Back at Shimano and completely fine after one year and more kilometers than ever bevor.
I see you are an SMP fan. I used to ride the SMP Dynamic on two bikes for years. I switched earlier this year to the F20C and love it. Way more comfortable than the Dynamic if you believe that.
@@CamNicholls - Following up on this comment. My F20C Carbon rail saddle failed over the past month, bought new from Competitive Cyclist in Feb 23. So I have about 3000 miles on it. The middle of the saddle (right side central section) collapses during rides, ending up 2 cm lower than the left side mid-section. I sit on the rear of the saddle, so most of my weight is properly supported. So either my saddle is defective or it was a fake (?). My F20C steel railed saddle is better, but also shows indications of beginning to sag. However, due to this experience I can no longer recommend SMP for any purchases. First, I wrote a review of the saddle a few weeks ago in the SMP website. I rated it 3 stars for Quality, when the review posted the Quality star rating was 5 stars - obviously edited by SMP. Secondly, I contacted SMP via their email "contact us" page, with a description of the problem and pictures. So far after 10 days, no response. And after checking their website, there is no "return/complaint procedure" linked anywhere. I will be sending the defective saddle back to SMP (at my own cost), to the attention of their quality/design lead for their own education about the the issue. My own theory is that the saddle body is not rigid or strong enough to support the weight of a rider (I'm 80kgs). I believe this is design defect of the F series which no longer has the curved body, and instead has a flat body which was designed to deflect slightly under rider load, then regain its shape. I found it to deflect to much and take several hours to return to nearly its original shape. Live and learn.
Previously, I've had wedges under one cleat. Over the last couple of years, I've had KCR (kinetic chain release), which has equalised my leg length. It will go out again, but gets better over time. I am interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Hey cam , personally used look keo 2s for years purely based on the fact I have a Halfords close and they stock boardman stuff effective and cheapish always buy either Ali or fibreglass pedals the red ones give loads of float used the shimano ones didn't like them the looks are well easier to walk in
Another great video Cam, very informative. I wanted pass some feedback regarding my Asioma Duo pedal experience which has been fantastic regarding accuracy and comfort. Ive had them for 2.5 years and theyve done about 25,000km. I had the bearing fail on one of the pedals and looking online, there's a number of people who have had the same outcome. 25k seems like a lot, but ive also got both older look and Shimano pedals that have done more than twice thus distance and seem fine. The $70 bearing replacement kit seems pretty expensive also, given i have sourced bearings independently at a fraction of the price, and the fitting is simple, following the Asioma videos. What are your thoughts?
My experience and a local pro's experience both showed that Look cleats might not hold as well as Shimano. I only wrecked sort of badly when my foot popped out, but he wiped out terribly--hospitalized and fully out of commission for over a month. We have both moved back to Shimano. Careful in those sprints Cam!
HI Cam, what are your and Neill's thoughts on mtb pedals on a bike that ride mainly on the road? I have recently switched over all of my bikes to spd pedals and with the new Favero mtb pedals coming out, am very interested in getting into riding with power.. the reason I switched to spd pedals is I don't race, don't feel like I put out much power and doubt the spd-sl pedals I was riding was making much of a difference in performance. Thoughts?
if your moving to the look cleats from shimano get some cleat covers if you intend to walk even a little in the cleats, like in and out of a shop on you commute they do not hold up like shimano cleats. Also avoid the Bi Material Cleats the materials separated on me in a sprint had a huge crash still have the scars
I tried Look in the mid to late 1990's and use Shimano now as I became tired of them . I felt false confidence with them in later years . I now use XT 8120's .
Was thinking of converting FROM Keo to SPD. However, I've heard horror stories of hot foot issues. For now, I'm sticking with Keo grey and working on issues with not being able to release on climbs.
Started on Shimano back in 2006 and moved to SpeedPlay in 2008, quickly moved back to Shimano, they had a terrible feel riding and the regular maintance was annoying.
I switched from Look to Shimano and I never get the squeaky cleats like ever! People that use Look cleats always get squeaky cleats especially once the cleat starts wearing down. It sucks. Shimano is waaaaaaaay better.
Oh yes, I had cleat squeak too when I was still on Look Keo. I switched to Shimano SPD-SL for pedal serviceability, less cleat float and because I like Shimano components overall 😅.
@@yonglingng5640 Exactly! That’s what I’m say8ng. I used Look pedals for years! It’s always the same with Look whether it’s the old Look Delta clears or Look Keo cleats. Once they start wearing down even a little bit , it’s squeaky creaky hell. You can put water, oil, grease, or butter on the cleat pedal interface, but that only helps temporarily. I hate that squeak. Shimano pedals don’t make that noise.
So now would love to know how out of balance your power is now that you're on the Favero pedals (assuming you have the double sided power pedals). Do you find yourself trying to stay in balance? Or do you not pay attention to how much stronger one side is than the other. I tend to consistently have a 53/47 or so split.. or 52/48 split between sides with my right side being the stronger side. Not sure how much of an issue that is.
Isn't it true that, if you have shims under your shoe, you should offset the setback of your cleat by 1mm, for every 5mm shim stack, compared to the 'normal' leg?
Many years on shamano/ look pedals and converted to speed play for knee problems. I will never go back. There is something no one pays attention to with cleats and it’s the aero advantage of speed play the walkable version.
Re the different feel between Shimano and Look.. Is it down to the fact that the Looks tend to float more at the rear of the cleat whereas the Shimano move more at the front ?
The amount of float is different between these two companies: 4.5° & 9° for Look Keo and 2° & 6° for Shimano SPD-SL Shimano SPD-SL cleats float differently in terms of the rotation point. The yellow cleats (6°) rotate in the centre whereas the blue cleats (2°) pivot on the front.
I have been using Look for 30 years and also have a set of Time magnesium. Both of these have long lasting cleats and good float. Speedplay and Assioma are too expensive and the cleats exp.Also they wear out fast. Does that SMP saddle come with bird feed or do they prefer small rodents?
It's not because the cleat is bigger that the contact surface is bigger for example the shimano big cleat but a lot of surface holed out for the placement of the screws,
Does this change to a slyly sponsored pedal system means that we don't get to see you try out an SPD pedal? I would've loved you to try on a MTB pedal system for comparison to the best entry-level beginner pedal body from that video you've made about the best pedal systems.
i was considering changing from look to Shimano, but a lot of people say they're basically the same, i guess why bother if I already use the look keo max pedals.
I was on Shimano Dura Ace pedals ( clip in ) from 28 yrs till 64.6 yrs . Then swaped 2 Time . Why ? Weight savings & power transfer . ×2 Specialized Tarmacs . SL5 Expert Time Xpro 12 & SL8 S-WORKS Time Xpro 15 . Much betterer hahah The Time Xpro Pedals r narrow & so is the cleat . Was originally going 2 go with Look & the weight then became an issue. My ride away weight on my SL7 Complete 6.83 kilos. Pedals, Bottle Cages & Computer Mount
Is there anyone that makes a more durable SPDSL/Keo cleat? My SPD-SLs are trashed after less than a full year of riding. Is it normal to just change your cleats out every year? They clip in fine but the yellow parts that are supposed to contact the ground are almost completely worn away. Does someone make little cleat condoms for when you're walking around the cafe at the halfway point pitstop?
haha, haven't heard of cleat condoms, but there's an idea for you. Definitely, replacing the cleats is recommend. It depends on how much you ride/wear them, of course, but I tend to change my cleats every six months. And I ride circa 8-10hrs per week. Cheers
Get cleat covers if you want, but replacing the cleats once a year is normal, the yellow parts never last long. Think there could be a market for alloy SPDSL/Keo cleats. SPD's or flat pedals are best if walking a lot.
@@draugmithrin Alloy cleats will wear the pedals. Years ago, Time shoes had alloy cleats. They later switched to a composite plastics or fiberglass cleat. Cleats are cheaper to replace than pedals!
Depends on distance and how much you walk on them but annual renew is best. Look made cafe cleats which slip on/off (rubber covers) not sure if they still make them.
@@simonalexandercritchley439I think they still do. I have a pair of Shimano SPD-SL cleat covers in case there are rides where I need to walk over smooth surfaces or walk more than expected.
Cool video. Fitter like him make me distrust the shops here who have been through a few hr class and offer a fitting service. Too many times I’ve been in shops knowing more than them about the produce they sell! I have a Shimano setup and have dealt with being uncomfortable as well as knee pain but can’t bring myself to pay $200 to a shop that doesn’t seem knowledgeable about their own products first lol.
Best bike fit content on UA-cam, hands down. Nothing beats this. The catalog of fit videos you two have compiled over the years is not only impressive, but so incredibly valuable to cyclists.
Very kind of you to share that.
Peak!
@@CamNicholls I’m having trouble with my Left ankle falling in striking the crank arm. Don’t know if it’s the Shimano pedals I currently have trying to figure it out.
@@tony5269Adjusting the left cleat to move the left heel out slightly to compensate is a good starting point . I have seen this with a client of my bicycle repair business . Changing Q - Factor between the pedals is a bit more involved . Really needs to be assessed in person to avoid unwanted side - effects .
@@robertmcfadyen9156 thanks I appreciate the comment 🙂
If you forget the bio mechanics (I run completely fixed pedals), the mechanical setup of the Shimano is much better, it is much less likely to be bend vs the Look. The look uses quite a slender deep groove ball bearing to manage the sideways load and the load near the pedal threads. In contrast, the Shimano (Dura ace) uses an angular contact bearing with quite a heavy contact angle for the same purpose so it's much stiffer.
However, as far as bullet proof pedals. The older generation Time ATACS were very well engineered.
As if 5 year olds know anything about pedals :)
Yeah, after 25 years on various iterations of Looks, I switched to Shimano because I got sick of how quickly Looks develop play in the bearings (seemingly almost as soon as they are ridden).
Atac are bulletproof. Have the old Lego Duplo style ones on 5 bikes😊😊😊
The spd-sl cleat is so big it's much more likely to be pulled too flat or too curvy by a shoe sole....especially tiny shoes. Then your float may be draggy.
Neil you are the best! I've learned so much from your presentations over the years. You've helped me get the right equipment and to know why I'm getting it. Thanks ✌️
I can highly recommend Neill for a bike fit. Just had my appointment last weekend. Very professional and quickly diagnosed my bike set-up issues.
I loved the Assioma DUO pedals for the value and the ability to swap between bikes with ease etc, but I should have held off on the purchase until after the bike fit appointment. I required a wider Q factor than I can get with the Assioma's. Neill put me on to the SQ lab pedals to achieve this. They still use the Look Cleat system.
Love the videos, great content.
Cheers.
I have been thinking of making trip to get a fit, living in lower Victoria it is a big committment for a bike fit. Have hip FAI and lower back is nasty.
The Assioma Shimano pedals where you actually swap the spindles result in a significantly wider Q factor than the normal Assiomas (65mm). Might want to try that!
@@DavidStacey-tx7onwhere is Neil located?
@@regnismada4936 Sunshine Coast QLD
I have been a lifetime user of the Look system, I literally went from 'clips and straps' to the first generation Look pedals. These days I am a very, very happy user of a set of Assioma Dual pedals. They are absolutely bulletproof and in my mind, the gold standard of power meters.
I am really grateful for knowledge you share with us. I recently adjusted my riding position (saddle and its position, cleats and their position incl. shims) and can now ride even 200 km without any saddle sore. Thanks to Cam, Neill and Selle Italia SLR.
I took a very scientific approach when I made the move to road pedals. My local bike shop was having a sale on Look pedals and cleats, so I bought 'em and have been with them ever since.😄
When I first got my Favero pedals, I still had Shimano Cleats on my shoes and without knowing better, I kept using them, since the pedal systems look so similar. They clipped in very tight, there was no float at all, and unclipping needed some - not too much - force, but it actually worked. They didn't even seem to wear out especially quickly. Of course, when I replaced them, I used the correct ones and I have to admit: this combination works far better. Just wanted to state out how extremely similar those systems are.
Always had ankle stability issues with Speedplay, even the Zeroes, especially when out of the saddle. I didn't realize how fatiguing it was until I rented a bike and forgot to bring my pedals. I ended up buying cleats to work with their SPD-SL pedals. The benefit of having a solid platform with controlled float under my feet was palpable.
Because of your video and Neel, I found the form company that makes Shims for SPD pedal. Just started using it and feels like I can put more even power from both my legs.
That's awesome to hear Harish. Thanks for sharing. I am sure you would feel generally better on the bike too.
Same for me, got me some new Lake shoes (entry level on sale but very nice) with the FORM mtb shim. My legs feel like pistons!
Important point of difference in adjustment speedplay adjust planes independently, 3 bolt options angle adjust can impact fore / aft left right... as long as accounted for all good... great video...
Made the same change about 3 years ago - I use a cleat with float to protect my knees, the cleats are cheap to replace (LOOK). I used speed play for years but their pricing became ridiculous and the Assioma is bloody awesome. I laughed when I saw the price of the speed play power pedal and associated cleats which will need replacing!!
Thanks for sharing on the thread Greg, and interesting points. I use the cleat with float too. While my position is a lot better than it once was, I still like some movement!
I have two pairs of Assioma pedals and, I agree, they are excellent. I use the grey (4.5 float) Look Keo cleats. I tried the black Look (0 float) cleats and the Xpedo cleats, but didn't like them.
I've been using Assioma pedals for several years now and I love them. Very accurate and at a great price. When they finally updated the pedals to auto calibrate, I was even more in love. And being able to swap them over to my gravel bike is just another great feature. Disclaimer: If you do swap these pedals over to another bike, you do need to calibrate them before the first ride, but then they're good. Same with swapping them back. Just charge them up every so often and enjoy the ride! Great video Cam.
Thanks for sharing on the thread mate. I am yet to hear anyone say something negative about Assioma. Even their tech support has proven to be a winner, when and if required. Cheers
Congrats on the new partnership! I've been very happy with Favero as a customer.
Switched from SPD-SL to Look when I picked up some Assiomas about 6 years ago. They have been flawless, with none of the battery door issues that Garmin or Powertap have had.
Thanks for sharing that on the thread Andrew. I've a got mate who's onto is third pair of Garmin power pedals. To be fair, Garmin have replaced the pedals with issues, but there's something not right there. Cheers
I have tried Assioma (Uno) pedals and one of the issues I had was how freely the pedals spin. Yes, I was new to clip-in pedals in general (toe clips ftw :D), but now with regular Look pedals I feel much more comfortable.
From my experience, the Look cleats don't work with the Assioma pedal bodies as well as the supplied cleats. They tend to feel harder to clip out. Also, the feel of the float is different too. I think the shape of the cleats is slightly different.
When I got my Assioma pedals I didn't switch cleats which were Look, and while I've heard the same thing you're saying from others as well, I find them to work great and find them very easy to clip in.
Remember Look in the early 90's were making Shimano's Pedals. Great Video thank you.
Then Shimano licensed them and made a much better version. I started with Looks in 1984 by the way.
About 3 years ago, i switched from using r8000 Shimano ultegra pedals to Assioma duo. I think there are many Advantages of the Shimano Pedal (system). Starting at the Center of gravity of the pedal, which makes clipping in at the Shimano pedals much easier, the connection between pedals and shoe feels more stable and at least the shimano cleats are much more durable and stable while walking. The only reason why i use the Assioma is the Powermeter.
Same with me, I have both Shimano and Assioma, I love the Assioma as a power pedal but not the Look style cleat. For some reason getting into the Look style cleat is a pain for me.
I used Shimano Ultegra pedals for a while, then Look Keo blades and was perfectly happy with both. I then switched to Garmin Vector pedals, and had them both with Keo style and Shimano bodies. For Garmin vector pedals, where both the Keo and Shimano options have the same stack height and Q factor, I must say I prefer the Shimano cleats - less creaking sounds, more stable while walking, less slippery and more durable. However, for the Favero Assioma pedals where the Shimano option adds so much Q factor, Shimano cleats are not worth it and I would stay with the Keo. In summary, all being the same I prefer the Shimano cleats for the reasons I mentioned, but the difference is quite small so they are not worth compromising in the bike fitting.
I've been using Look carbon blades for 3 years. Happy with them.
I changed from shimano to look around 2017/18, and never looked back. Few months ago I decided to try XTR pedal to minimize near miss incidents in public toilets, but after few tries I experienced knee pain and changed back to my look system. ✌🏾
When I got back into cycling as an adult and on a road bike, I started with Look Keo Pedals and cleats, mainly on recommendation from the bike shop where I bought the bike from. I then swapped to speed play several years later after having constant problems clipping in. I was able to get a pair of speed play on sale for a really great price, so that sealed the swap. It has now been about 12 years on speed play, and I really have not had any issues, including several bike fits, a new bike, and several pairs of shoes. I believe I am lucky because I don't have any discrepancies in leg length, so I could choose any pedal system, but I will stick with Speed Play. I must admit I do like the sound of the Wahoo Speed Play Power pedals, although I have no real need for a power meter.
Assiomas are great. I currently have a set with SPD and it works well for gravel riding. Way cheaper than what Garmin offers.
I've been on Look pedals since 1985, the year that they first came out! They were a little heavy back then, but they were definitely on to something good 😁
I came here because of the title. Ive been on speedplay since 2002. Im now ready for a power meter and started looking at the pedal option versus the crank arm. There are several options obviously but as a speedplay user I thought it was the only pedal I would ever use. So I started watching your video and at the 1:55 mark, I thought, oh ok I get the title now. Also quit and moved on but I thought I should keep an open mind and watch to the end. I too learned to apply a shim for my 4mm leg length discrepancy but the float is still somethimg I like. So to here there is some float ability in the Blades (if i heard corrcetly) it's something Im considering. Anyway, sorry I miss judged you in the beggining, that you might be biasis because of a sponsor. The Assiomas will be cheaper but its going to be hard to give up 22yrs of a system. Good video.
As soon as Assioma released the Duo Shi I made the switch from a crank arm based power meter. So much less faff and the extra Q factor of the Shi system was perfect coming from the wide fit R8000 pedals.
Same! I love the q factor of the duo shi
I ran Speedplay for a while but kept having self-disassembly issues with the cleats. (And I tried both flavors of Loc-Tite.) I went to Shimano Dura-Ace and love them.
I’m still using look delta style pedals and cleats as they work fine and I saw no need to upgrade
I've been using Look Delta, with Black Fixed cleats since 1988.
@@billkallas1762 to me they aren’t much different to keo
I have 2 max look pedals for 4 years, i m gonna by power meter pedals, and i broke my mind speed play or assioma.
I was thinking of speedplay for more easy use, but assioma, i think, ged the credits.
please help...🤣
Thanks to your advice on bike fitting, finally, i managed to find my position and feel more powerful.
Excellent videos,by the way, you helped me to understand. Many things.
Keep going 💪 cheers 🍻!!!
Your 10.5mm stack height quote shown on 7:47 for Assioma is pedal only. That doesn't include the cleats. Look cleat is like 6-7mm thick.
Dura-ace pedal is 13.5mm all in, cleat and pedal.
I like Shimano more, just because it's thinner.
Pedal stack on Dura-ace pedal is already thinner. And SPD-SL cleat is also thinner than Look cleat as well.
Do you happen to know what the stack height for the ultegra pedals and the spd sl cleats are? The values i find online vary tremendously from each other
I need to take myself and my bike to Neil’s all the way from Sydney!
I changed from Look to Time Xpresso some years ago and I never regret it, imo they are way better! ...sadly they don't make a powermeter version, and so don't any other company for that system, but if you use a crank based PM, Time is great!!!
Shimano licensed the Keo cleat pedal patent design from Look. When Shimano released their SPD-SL road pedals. This is why Look Keo cleats looks similar to Shimano SPD-SL.
Patents designs expire after 15 years. After that anyone can use and copy the design.
Look Keo pedals were launched in 1984. So the patents would have expired in 1999. This is why there many 3rd party pedals with Look Keo, Shimano SPD and SPD-SL in the market today.
Interesting to hear that, thanks for sharing on the thread.
Favero Assioma is excellent as a power meter. The big downside for me is that the pedal body (made of plain plastic) gets worn out after 6-9 months, and the float gets bigger and bigger. If a bigger float is a problem for you, you would need to buy a new pedal body every year. Plus the side that you are unclipping more often gets worn out faster, and the difference between the left and right pedal is very noticeable.
Another nice bonus is the Xpedo/Assioma cleats are rebranded Wellgo RC7, which can be found very, very cheaply. Shimano cleats are highway robbery by comparison.
Nice tip, thanks for on the thread Will.
Can't be worse than Time, which last 300-500km.
Mate... went from Speedplay to Assioma about a month ago. So much better. But could've used this vid earlier! Thanks!
What do You like on Assioma over Speedplays?
Hey Cam, as an owner of the assiomas and the speedplays i am surprised that a powerful rider like yourself doesn't find the assiomas to be very soft and especially kicking out of the corner with +500w... but for most beginner cyclists and non-racing purposes the assiomas are fantastic! (Except for the "winterprofenes" of their battery)
Interesting to hear that feedback. Haven't heard that or felt that. I don't produce much at the upper end though!
One thing that is often overlooked is trying to fix the length length variation. many can be fixed long-term with some basic chiropractor work to hips and ankles. This will have a positive effect on all aspects of life. not just cycling with shims.
The main issue with the chiropractor for many folks would be if it is an inherent length problem. Within a few days my hips will find their natural state. A few mm doesn't equate on either side, may not matter. If there is a discomfort area, the problem can be located somewhere else. Been riding for well over 55 years. Bike fits are good, learn the art oneself to find comfort. If there is underlying discomfort, yes the bike and you may need help but more than likely it will be one's skeletal muscle tone or other underlying inadequacies that may be hampering comfort. The fit would ascertain any relevant problems with geometry, after which one could see if those physical conditions continue. I would conclude though, this is only relevant to those who may ride a high amount of miles and are generally in fairly good physical condition. Great content.
Would have been interesting to see the new Look blades that just came out. I like a wide pedal since I’m a 49 wide foot. Dura-ace and Ultegra have an extended axle version. I’d like more float though.
essentially the reason he switched was because he's now sponsored and Assioma isn't compatible with Speedplay :)
I use both, Speedplays in the summer and Keo's in the winter, mainly because once Speedplays become filled with mud, dirt etc you can't clip in.
Love the video and Neil's expertise congratulations on the sponsorship well deserved what's with the Inform Stannard kit ? lets know please Cam the RCA group the best for any cyclists so many arms to it..
Time ATAC MTB pedals for my road bike. Not changed pedals type in 25 years
I have had Assioma pedals since 2019 (30k miles on them) and had to have both spindles replaced last year to due battery failure. Now I have yet another battery failure on my left pedal and Assioma want me to pay to replace....They said the replacement part comes with 24 month warranty......so the spindles that where replaced last year should be covered from this yet 3rd battery failure. Their tech support and customer service has been super slow and they are not fully review my issues. As of now I would not recommend Assioma pedals due to battery issues and support.
Love it! Thanks for the info.
I love my Assioma Duo pedals. Only complaint is the cleats that arrived with the pedals didn't have non slip pads. Walking on some surfaces was a big risk. Used Look cleats... problem solved.
The system is good, i hope Assioma pedals are easier to service than Looks. (many times will need 1 or 2 special tools just for the pedal disassembly)
Watching these videos stresses me out, I need a bike fit to get myself sorted but I'm afraid of wasting money because I can't imagine any of the fitters in my area have anywhere this level of knowledge and skill. Guess I just need to give it a go.
I’m in the same exact boat, mate.
Also I just switched to Keo/LOOK set up
@@taylorbruch4703 since this comment I replaced the bike with a larger frame that fit me better, made some other changes and saw a physio. This sorted my knee issue that I was having at the time and I've got no other problems for now.
Good look with that. I broke 3 pedals over the time of one year. Their bearings are absolute trash. Back at Shimano and completely fine after one year and more kilometers than ever bevor.
Favero are single handedly keeping Look in cleat sales business :)
I see you are an SMP fan. I used to ride the SMP Dynamic on two bikes for years. I switched earlier this year to the F20C and love it. Way more comfortable than the Dynamic if you believe that.
Interesting to hear, thanks for sharing on the thread.
@@CamNicholls - Following up on this comment. My F20C Carbon rail saddle failed over the past month, bought new from Competitive Cyclist in Feb 23. So I have about 3000 miles on it. The middle of the saddle (right side central section) collapses during rides, ending up 2 cm lower than the left side mid-section. I sit on the rear of the saddle, so most of my weight is properly supported. So either my saddle is defective or it was a fake (?). My F20C steel railed saddle is better, but also shows indications of beginning to sag.
However, due to this experience I can no longer recommend SMP for any purchases. First, I wrote a review of the saddle a few weeks ago in the SMP website. I rated it 3 stars for Quality, when the review posted the Quality star rating was 5 stars - obviously edited by SMP. Secondly, I contacted SMP via their email "contact us" page, with a description of the problem and pictures. So far after 10 days, no response. And after checking their website, there is no "return/complaint procedure" linked anywhere. I will be sending the defective saddle back to SMP (at my own cost), to the attention of their quality/design lead for their own education about the the issue. My own theory is that the saddle body is not rigid or strong enough to support the weight of a rider (I'm 80kgs). I believe this is design defect of the F series which no longer has the curved body, and instead has a flat body which was designed to deflect slightly under rider load, then regain its shape. I found it to deflect to much and take several hours to return to nearly its original shape.
Live and learn.
Previously, I've had wedges under one cleat. Over the last couple of years, I've had KCR (kinetic chain release), which has equalised my leg length. It will go out again, but gets better over time.
I am interested to hear your thoughts on this.
love my assioma power pedals, but did not like the cleats that came with the pedals. switched to Keo grey grip cleats and am loving it.
Hey cam , personally used look keo 2s for years purely based on the fact I have a Halfords close and they stock boardman stuff effective and cheapish always buy either Ali or fibreglass pedals the red ones give loads of float used the shimano ones didn't like them the looks are well easier to walk in
Please make a video about SMP saddles!! Love them!
He has
Interested to hear how you step from base training into high intensity training.are you talking sweetspot or tempo training etc
Another great video Cam, very informative. I wanted pass some feedback regarding my Asioma Duo pedal experience which has been fantastic regarding accuracy and comfort. Ive had them for 2.5 years and theyve done about 25,000km. I had the bearing fail on one of the pedals and looking online, there's a number of people who have had the same outcome. 25k seems like a lot, but ive also got both older look and Shimano pedals that have done more than twice thus distance and seem fine. The $70 bearing replacement kit seems pretty expensive also, given i have sourced bearings independently at a fraction of the price, and the fitting is simple, following the Asioma videos. What are your thoughts?
My experience and a local pro's experience both showed that Look cleats might not hold as well as Shimano. I only wrecked sort of badly when my foot popped out, but he wiped out terribly--hospitalized and fully out of commission for over a month. We have both moved back to Shimano. Careful in those sprints Cam!
I heard from my ex-colleague that Shimano SPD-SL pedals are more resilient against crashes too.
Where did you find that wooden bike stand behind you ? I would love to buy one for my living room . 🙏🏼
HI Cam, what are your and Neill's thoughts on mtb pedals on a bike that ride mainly on the road? I have recently switched over all of my bikes to spd pedals and with the new Favero mtb pedals coming out, am very interested in getting into riding with power.. the reason I switched to spd pedals is I don't race, don't feel like I put out much power and doubt the spd-sl pedals I was riding was making much of a difference in performance. Thoughts?
I like and ride the TT5, just nice 👌
"a couple of cents.' Steve Hoggs heal shims (even less plastic) cost 29 USD to order, and 25USD to ship to the USA... lol
if your moving to the look cleats from shimano get some cleat covers if you intend to walk even a little in the cleats, like in and out of a shop on you commute they do not hold up like shimano cleats. Also avoid the Bi Material Cleats the materials separated on me in a sprint had a huge crash still have the scars
I tried Look in the mid to late 1990's and use Shimano now as I became tired of them . I felt false confidence with them in later years . I now use XT 8120's .
Any adjustment to stance width with the Assiomas? Clearly you handle the increased stance, but maybe not for narrower riders?
Yeah can say for sure Assioma are the best all-round. I'm not sponsored by them - wish I was ha!
Must agree that the assioma is a great pedal based power meter
Was thinking of converting FROM Keo to SPD. However, I've heard horror stories of hot foot issues. For now, I'm sticking with Keo grey and working on issues with not being able to release on climbs.
Thanks for sharing James. Curious what you mean by release on climbs? Do you mean unclip?
@@CamNicholls Yes, it's difficult to unclip or clip out for me on climbs.
Started on Shimano back in 2006 and moved to SpeedPlay in 2008, quickly moved back to Shimano, they had a terrible feel riding and the regular maintance was annoying.
I switched from Look to Shimano and I never get the squeaky cleats like ever! People that use Look cleats always get squeaky cleats especially once the cleat starts wearing down. It sucks. Shimano is waaaaaaaay better.
Oh yes, I had cleat squeak too when I was still on Look Keo. I switched to Shimano SPD-SL for pedal serviceability, less cleat float and because I like Shimano components overall 😅.
@@yonglingng5640 Exactly! That’s what I’m say8ng. I used Look pedals for years! It’s always the same with Look whether it’s the old Look Delta clears or Look Keo cleats. Once they start wearing down even a little bit , it’s squeaky creaky hell. You can put water, oil, grease, or butter on the cleat pedal interface, but that only helps temporarily. I hate that squeak. Shimano pedals don’t make that noise.
Hey Cam, are we getting any good discount codes from you for Assioma now? 😉
look keo ti 3 000 km after starting play/wobble/creak ? and shimano ultegra 30 000 km feel new?
Use the normal keo cleats instead of the keo grip! They have much more sideways movements and de grip rubber does not fall af.
So now would love to know how out of balance your power is now that you're on the Favero pedals (assuming you have the double sided power pedals). Do you find yourself trying to stay in balance? Or do you not pay attention to how much stronger one side is than the other. I tend to consistently have a 53/47 or so split.. or 52/48 split between sides with my right side being the stronger side. Not sure how much of an issue that is.
It seems to me everyone is getting the same numbers... 53/47
Isn't it true that, if you have shims under your shoe, you should offset the setback of your cleat by 1mm, for every 5mm shim stack, compared to the 'normal' leg?
Need to be careful with the fit grid on Bont shoes. They are often in different positions on the same pair of shoes by a factor of 1cm.
Many years on shamano/ look pedals and converted to speed play for knee problems. I will never go back. There is something no one pays attention to with cleats and it’s the aero advantage of speed play the walkable version.
Re the different feel between Shimano and Look.. Is it down to the fact that the Looks tend to float more at the rear of the cleat whereas the Shimano move more at the front ?
The amount of float is different between these two companies: 4.5° & 9° for Look Keo and 2° & 6° for Shimano SPD-SL
Shimano SPD-SL cleats float differently in terms of the rotation point. The yellow cleats (6°) rotate in the centre whereas the blue cleats (2°) pivot on the front.
Started with Look and love Look.
Great vid Guys.. wahoo speedplays here for me work great for me just my opinion 😊😃🚴🏻🥇Pete
They're still Neill's pick of the bunch. He loves the Speedplays.
I have been using Look for 30 years and also have a set of Time magnesium.
Both of these have long lasting cleats and good float.
Speedplay and Assioma are too expensive and the cleats exp.Also they wear out fast.
Does that SMP saddle come with bird feed or do they prefer small rodents?
haha big rodents.
It's not because the cleat is bigger that the contact surface is bigger for example the shimano big cleat but a lot of surface holed out for the placement of the screws,
Does this change to a slyly sponsored pedal system means that we don't get to see you try out an SPD pedal? I would've loved you to try on a MTB pedal system for comparison to the best entry-level beginner pedal body from that video you've made about the best pedal systems.
Look sucks. Switched to Dura Ace and enjoy it so much more.
i was considering changing from look to Shimano, but a lot of people say they're basically the same, i guess why bother if I already use the look keo max pedals.
I reckon the float is better on Look, but marginally. So if I was you, I'd be thinking the same way...
the look gray is 4.5 float and shimano yellow is 6, but probably similar enough
@@darinsteele7091there is different pivot of rotation
Surprised you did not land on Time. They are really the best pedal on the market, SRAM knew.
Those SMP saddles always make me think the saddle has had 15 too many beers. The Pro maybe 25 too many beers.
Wait, can you use look cleats on Asioma power pedals?
I was on Shimano Dura Ace pedals ( clip in ) from 28 yrs till 64.6 yrs . Then swaped 2 Time . Why ? Weight savings & power transfer . ×2 Specialized Tarmacs . SL5 Expert Time Xpro 12 & SL8 S-WORKS Time Xpro 15 . Much betterer hahah The Time Xpro Pedals r narrow & so is the cleat .
Was originally going 2 go with Look & the weight then became an issue. My ride away weight on my SL7 Complete 6.83 kilos. Pedals, Bottle Cages & Computer Mount
Is there anyone that makes a more durable SPDSL/Keo cleat? My SPD-SLs are trashed after less than a full year of riding. Is it normal to just change your cleats out every year? They clip in fine but the yellow parts that are supposed to contact the ground are almost completely worn away. Does someone make little cleat condoms for when you're walking around the cafe at the halfway point pitstop?
haha, haven't heard of cleat condoms, but there's an idea for you. Definitely, replacing the cleats is recommend. It depends on how much you ride/wear them, of course, but I tend to change my cleats every six months. And I ride circa 8-10hrs per week. Cheers
Get cleat covers if you want, but replacing the cleats once a year is normal, the yellow parts never last long. Think there could be a market for alloy SPDSL/Keo cleats. SPD's or flat pedals are best if walking a lot.
@@draugmithrin Alloy cleats will wear the pedals. Years ago, Time shoes had alloy cleats. They later switched to a composite plastics or fiberglass cleat. Cleats are cheaper to replace than pedals!
Depends on distance and how much you walk on them but annual renew is best.
Look made cafe cleats which slip on/off (rubber covers) not sure if they still make them.
@@simonalexandercritchley439I think they still do. I have a pair of Shimano SPD-SL cleat covers in case there are rides where I need to walk over smooth surfaces or walk more than expected.
I always use LOOK
I always used Looks only thing is cleat life was not great now use SPD and wont go back
I was just checking my invoices and i was charges 15 EUR for the spacers ......
Cool video. Fitter like him make me distrust the shops here who have been through a few hr class and offer a fitting service. Too many times I’ve been in shops knowing more than them about the produce they sell! I have a Shimano setup and have dealt with being uncomfortable as well as knee pain but can’t bring myself to pay $200 to a shop that doesn’t seem knowledgeable about their own products first lol.
Where are these guys from? They have really strong australian accents.
Question was NOT answered! Why???????😂😂😂😂
Isn't company Favero ???
LOOK Keo road pedal patent expired long time ago. Same as Shimano MTB SPD. SPD SL will expire in 2025.
Whats the new black bike?
Looks like a Polygon Helios A.
Why do I keep watching first few minutes of your videos. Like some kind of self harm. 😂 ❤ There must be some way to block these videos.