SH!T CHAT: The Peculiar Plugtop!
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- An off-the-cuff ramble between me and Nigel about a... uh.. plug.
Not just any old plug though, one that skewed our insulation resistance readings on a recent job. Why? How? Who knows, and by the time of upload on a Friday night, who cares? Still, I suppose these answers must be questioned.
The leading theory is that it's likely to be some kind of surface contaminant and a wash with soapy water may resolve it. There's no suggestion it's improperly manufactured or unsuitable for use, it's just.... curious.
Contains strong language and I forgot to slap the parental advisory sticker on too. Also, my apologies to headphones users for an annoying hum on the audio. I'm not convinced the proximity of my 10kV jacobs ladder didn't spike the mic in my new man-cave arrangement.
I didnt know Rik Mayall and frankie boyle were so funny
A few years back my mum complained that she was getting shocks from a specific socket - just by touching the plastic surface. I was sceptical at first but I was able to get around 100v reading between the plastic surface and earth. I realised that there was a build up of slightly conductive dirt on the surface that had bridged between the live parts inside and the surface of the socket. For safetys sake I replaced the whole socket rather than attempt to clean it since I had no way of removing the dirt inside the switch mechanism.
Anyone that has owned a British Leyland car from the early 70s,with a dodgy Lucas dizzy and rotor arm knows the answer. Plastic so crap that you can't even see the hairline crack for it to breakdown.
Our switchboard manufacturer warns us against incorporating fuse boards in the switchboards. One, because Eaton/MEM no longer sell the fuse banks so they have to buy a full board and gut it, but two, because the phenolic resin fuse banks fail the flash test.
Makes me think of testing all my plugs and old old plugs I have on 2000v
Many thanks for the video. I certainly learnt something new which I would have dismissed as being a problem. The look on a clients face, "I am just checking all your plugs. Do you mind putting your central heating on to 30deg C." Lol
"I need to stick your plug down my trousers for a few minutes m'aam..."
@@dsesuk "Sir"
Enjoy your weekend fellas, brilliant as always!
Cheers Paul, you too!
I think this maybe the first breakthrough into the search for super conductivity? Keep going!
Hajajajajajaja I love the banter between you two, your more like lovers than colleagues
Nige is my work-wife.
PVC plastics are often recycled from the motor trade and electronics industry to be ground down and reused. A quick search on the internet revealed that small amount of metallic particles gets mixed into it. Presumably PVC for electrical insulation should be made from virgin material. Marvelous performance from you both as usual.
An interesting explanation. Not that it's really an issue here, although a drop to below 20M Ohm at just 21-ish Celcius doesn't exactly inspire confidence!
This was basically my theory as well. Essentially this is dopeing, sorta like semi conductors or even salt in salt water.... kinda anyway.
I want to go home David! Your not getting overtime Nigel smile at the f**king camera 😂
It was only about half three this afternoon, practically a half day for the lazy bugger!
Perplexing Schrodinger's plug of quantum physics. Send it to the boffins at Oxford to stick in their neutron disintegrator
Reminds me of the phenolic black plastic shite cutouts that electric companies fitted way back when Dave was a lad. We were suddenly one day told after years of pulling the bloody things that we were to check them for 'surface voltage' because apparently someone had determined the black plastic could leach a conductive material. Sounded like H+S bollocks but perhaps there was a modicum of truth to it...
I discovered how conductive plasticine is when I crammed it between the pins of a 15 amp (yes it was a long time ago!) plug and plugged it in! Went up like a firework!
Did you try washing it ? - my bet is it had liquid spilt on it, which has left a conductive residue on the surface
My thinking too.
No, but I expect it is something like that. I kinda want to keep it as-is for demonstration purposes (i.e. so I can show all my many friends!)
Give me the beer back! 😂 interesting find, although unsurprising with the cheap imported parts. Never cut corners when it comes to electrics and safety. Thanks for the video. Good to see you both.
Nigel getting alms for just sitting there having a cigarette made my weekend!
Sorry for the dodgy camerawork, I was pissing around recording on my phone.
One must remember that although (almost) educational, this isn't a family show. Kids wanted to know what all the swearing was about! Good to see you're both having a laugh again..
Another reason we don't use silver as a conductor (even on contact tips) is because the oxide forms readily and silver oxide is a terrible conductor. Gold is less conductive than silver, but doesn't oxidise which is why we get gold tipped plugs.
I remember discussing this while studying physics A-level, but that was 10 years ago so I'm probably talking complete bollocks.
I'll take your word for it Charlotte, my physics only got to GCSE grade D and that was thirty years ago, but it makes sense - I always wondered why Curry's were trying to flog me expensive gold audio cables when there were better conductors out there. Not that I ever fell for that nonsense... much.
You are spot on, though for large contacts you'll generally see brass, (plug tops, outer shields on data connectors like HDMI) and gold plating only for data pins (USB, Ethernet 8P8C, the internal pins for HDMI etc.). The internal cores will all be copper though, unless you're talking about £1000 HDMI leads (I'm looking at you, WireWorld). It's the same nonsense with oxygen-free copper (OFC); the difference in resistivity is minimal and trace impurities do not affect the signal in most cases (or at all for low frequency, such as mains power). Be careful of copper-coated steel/aluminium though, they're appearing in super cheap cables now, and they're awful!
@@nickbiss39 CCA > crap at carrying amps. Except in aircraft where it's pretty common for weightsaving and it's a better conductor at higher frequencies, AC system is 400hz on aircraft.
Great video guys. David you crack me up every time. Keep up the brilliant videos. 👍👍
A good and informative video, happily the full language has returned to uncensored.
Got a nice man cave there buddy. Gadget heaven 🤝
Hi Dave, great to see you are back to standard English so that an old Welsh sod like me can understand, BTW there are no real swear words in Welsh, we all swear in English, in fact I have discussed this with my Swedish friend who tells me it is the same in his language.
So to sum up keep to the standard David Savery Standard English, also a very interesting fault that most of us have never seen the likes of.
Regards from the old sod from North Wales.
Shouldn't you be in bed with a Horlicks and a good Agatha Christie at this time of night Ray?!
@@dsesuk Hi Dave, I don't get up until after 9 in the morning so I stay up until 2am, Agatha Who?
Brilliant entertainment. thanks.
Mr S, I wonder what other pieces of Class II Electrical equipment might be constructed of this 'Conductive Plastic'?
At least its follows that it increases in resistance with increase temperatures, in the same way our copper conductors do!
It probably has a contamination; some coating or other of something. I could wash it, but it's more interesting as-is!
@@dsesuk You could wash one half of the plug (the half without the pins) just to answer the question - if that does fix it then you can keep the other half with the pins as the demo but also be able to explain why it does it. But presumably if it's contamination you'd get different readings touching the inside plastic vs the outside, as it's less likely the contamination went inside the plug, perhaps.
Came across a 16A socket that was tripping the RCD and it had nothing plugged into it, it was outside and the plastic became conductive. Put a new one on and the problem was solved.
Interesting. Perhaps there is more of this out there! First time we've come across it.
Savmorecom & Neilwise bring me plug tops, bring me volts.
Had a customer try and waterproof an electrical box on a farm with graphite grease a few years back....
If the plug is PVC, it has a polar molecular structure (due to the electronegative Cl atoms) which raises its dielectric constant and reduces it's insulating effect compared to nonpolar polymers (like HDPE). It's also susceptible to structural breakdown and microcracking which may explain the lower resistance reading. I'm curious if you heated it to near melting and cooled again, if the resistance would remain higher (indicating structural breakdown) or continue to respond to temperature (indicating a chemical breakdown). Love the vids!
My God Nick! If I have a hangover when I wake up, it'll be all your fault and nothing to do with all these empty bottles around me! It certainly sounds good though, even if it is beyond the rudimentary GCSE physics and chemistry results I obtained after wanking off old Mr Perkins [head of Sciences] back in school!
electricians giving new meaning to the term 'awkward silence' at 12:00 🤣
It seems unlikely that plastic would become that conductive, and even more so that it would conduct better at lower temperatures. I would guess that its surface has become slowly contaminated by something in its environment - cigarette smoke, or maybe something invisible. The temperature drop could then result in condensation forming on the surface, causing the contaminant to become more conductive. You could carefully wash the plastic parts in soapy water, thoroughly rinse and dry, and then see if the fault has vanished.
An interesting idea Robin.
them sort of days when you investigate it gets even weirder, like the other day I opened up a charred burnt plug top to find a bs 1362.. 20 amp plug top fuse.. I thought wow.. must be counterfeit.. and it was a china special
Had the same issue with a junction box (old round 30amp brown type) a couple of years ago when testing a house. I even videoed it for my inspector and he was scratching his head.
I put it down to graphite in the plastic perhaps?
C’mon Dave get the merch out 😉
An interesting theory and interesting to hear of others coming across it as we thought we were going mad!
David Savery Electrical Services
After speaking to the lewden rep last year I asked why the levers on the rcbos have changed from black to grey?
He replied that the graphite content was too high so they had to change?
I just thought they looked the same as the commercial stuff but after seeing issues here and there with plastics giving off strange readings I’m tending to believe it.
Super conductor plug top! Get it to absolute zero! 🔌🤣
Hi David, Could we look at the new trend of saying that RCBOs need an air gap? I really dont know where it comes from, but atm I am a little perplexed by it! Great to see more of Nigel!!
I've seen the odd snippet about this too Chris. Not sure where it's coming from. If anything concrete crops up, it'll be mentioned in a future vid I'm sure.
@@dsesuk I think I've only seen it mentioned (Artisan maybe?) in relation to the compact/miniature RCBOs?
Which would be ironic - the main feature is they take up less space in the CU but on the other hand they take up more space in the CU! (if it's true)
I'm in Trumpland (not a fan of of the great orange bawl-bag of bullshit) and I ran across Dave "repairing" garden wiring a couple years back. His comical commentary got me hooked. After the now famous, "Manor House" series I missed Nigel and was worried he might not come back. Good to have you back, Martian! That said the "The Capacitive Earth Fault Mystery" -- a Harvey Winestain Prod. -- is gold... also! Or copper. (Did Nigel know you were doing that? He got the short end in that one, poor guy.) I grew up on Sherlock Holmes movies and that was hilarious.
The way you both carry on is hysterical! So, I'm in the U.S. of Arseholes and always wait on another video from you. (Between your videos I'll watch other Sparks around the U.K. Just fascinated by the way you all do your electrics.)
The way you blokes do electrics is very different from " 'mericun" Sparks. You lot care and take pride in your work! Not so much here. Here most things are in steel conduit but little regard for proper earthing mind you, though that's changing. Also, many of our Sparks don't care which side of our crappy outlets the line and neutral go one! Though that's a small matter as our outlet/plug system is a deathtrap. Great fun for the kids.
Another effect of the overwhelming laziness here is that instead of each GFCI (also called GFI) -- or RCD for you blokes -- is that GFCI outlets get placed near where they're needed, not in the board like an RCD circuit. BUT, the real laziness is when several outlets are chained off of just ONE GFCI (which is alright as long as the outlets are near each other, say a kitchen) and all of the bathrooms and garage are run off of just that single GFCI. That could mean 4 to5 outlets on opposite ends of the house, so when the RCD -err- GFCI trips off - as is their want - you have to run across the house and down stairs to reset it in the smallest loo. (Come on America, you won't pay the little extra for 4 more GFCI outlets?) The cabling you use -- we call it it Roamex -- is very limited in length depending on what State you're in. As is the use of BX. I've seen some real bodge work. Most of our Sparks are pretty lame, careless and un-educated shit. The good ones are great.
OK, I'm rambling. I just wanted to say how much I like your videos! Keep them coming! 'Smell my plug!'
Also, the odd effect of that plug is similar to tungsten. (Sort of, the overall temperature range being lower with the mystery plug.) Less resistivity when cold and higher when hot. Google has provided little in the way of an answer. I'm quite curious what it could be?
Thanks for tuning in from over the pond Gary. My sister lives in Seattle and I last visited in 2017. I'm kinda gutted that I didn't use the opportunity to poke about with that installation as it would have been interesting to take a closer look at how things differ. Maybe next time, if there ever is one and the world doesn't turn completely to shit!
Two brits drinking cold beer? A beer frig? WTF? I thought that was a hate crime over there.
I am a bugger for drinking warm beer, mainly because I'm usually too lazy to stock the kitchen fridge and the wife moans about the space being taken up. Now that I have a dedicated cooler in the man-cave, chilled bottles o' fizzy are the order of the day!
You guys are a proper team! love it
Lurve the knob shine mug
Ill say it again comedy gold! brilliant lads 😂😂
With the amount of times those clips flew off brought memories of laurel and hardy to mind lol.
I like Nigel... He gives me an unjustified sense of academic superiority! 😂
You probably smell less of peas too.
As always love the crack!! - we would love to see another (Harvey winestain production) ????
Too much like hard work that! Another on landlord inspections and one on a hot tub installation are the next two I haven't got time to work on at present!
You guys give the two Ronnie's a good run for the money your vids are class
We also have a plethora of dated jokes about knockers n' stuff.
Hygroscopic? Would explain why it behaved better after being zapped and dying out
Very entertaining and Nigels screwfix bag got a mention too
Childish smut. And I'd be disappointed if it wasn't! 10/10.
Actually there was a bit of a lesson in there; just because something appears to be an insulative material, don't assume it is. And don't touch any plugs in the Savery household; you never know where they've been....
After this weekend you'll know exactly where they've been as I'm putting all my own plugs down my trousers for scientific testing. Also, the wife has just walked out and taken the kids with her for some reason.
Got a nearly new 32A CEE Form distro doing this. I had to shelve it 3 months back after the pandemic kicked off so pending further investigation...
Intertek / BEAB / ASTA whatever they're called this afternoon, would be interested to see that, I'm sure
Interesting so as the material contracts when it gets cold it becomes more conductive. I guess that plug was just meant for a heater instead of a lamp.
You guys never fail to provide the humour and entertainment along with interesting advice and info ,
Very interesting find 🤔
You ever want a gofa for the day let me know would be worth the journey 👍
These two are comedy gold love um 😀😀
Not sure about Gold Andrew. Copper maybe...
Nige isn't slow, he's thorough.
DNOs teach those fiddling with cut-outs that there is the possibility of the plastic becoming live due to 'a small layer of carbon'. Before operating on it, it is advised to use a contact tester to prove that the car is dead.
When they start installing cut-outs made by Shitehola of Shenzhen, we're all in trouble. Only a matter of time....
This wasn’t a BHS light fitting was it? I’ve had this at a house and it was lots of BHS table and floor lamps all class two (bar one or two) with those plugs on, they slot in cable strain relief. I had no explanation and rather lazily put new plugs on! Madness!
I'm not sure Matthew, we neglected to look much further at the lamp itself which was perhaps an oversight!
2:32 and this kids is why you lock the circuit off (if only Nige re-energised the circuit)
Or grabbed the Jacob's ladder remote control to switch it on just as David reached into the CU
It certainly looks like they had a contaminated batch of polymer when making those . Google doesn't seem to glean any relevant info on this but its lucky you had Nigel with you what with all his years of experience ........ Nice presentation again Dave thanks for submitting us to your vast suppository of knowledge. BTW Nigel looks like he lost weight , have you not been driving him to the food banks during his furlow?
Rest assured that any slimming is down to the camera lens and we remain roly-poly's in reality!
What a thoroughly entertaining video I bet that plug tasted a bit tangy or tasted of talc. If like me you like to keep some comfortable balls. Thanks a lot for that video without demonstrating that I would’ve never believed you. Plus an amazing find. thank you
Hello David. You and Nigel are missing a trick hear. Your next profession should be teaching. Granted you cant put everything down your pants to prove a point or drink on the Job :) but you have a attitude that makes people want to keep watching. Have a good weekend and thanks for the laugh,
An interesting one! Is it possible it was contaminated after sale? Have you stuck in in a dishwasher and tried it again after? Thinking of cleaning products/ furniture polish?? 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
I suspect the fecker is hygroscopic
Has the customer got a dog its cocking its leg up it and having a pee on the plug , i had that do that on one of my jobs to sort a trip fault.
Ha ha, keeping Nige away from the pub on a Friday... Oh wait.
On a more boring note, I had an outside lighting job that was tripping the rcd, eventually discovered it was the flex from the fitting, only about 2 foot long, no visible damage, ir in the tank. Stripped the flex apart and tested the rubber and got a reading, the flipping rubber failed!!!!
On an even more boring note, what would you suggest when a client wants a new garage supply with a car charger and sockets and lights but the house CU is already well past max demand?
Had similar recently too Oli - pond flex where the rubber had given out. Is there any way to balance demand? On my house, I have a Garo thing that allows either my shower or my EV charger to work, but not both at the same time.
@@dsesuk
Funny you mention those, I used one after seeing a video you did a while back, a house with two showers.
My issue here is that I can't really get to the CU which is buried in the house with a new SWA so I was going to add a Henley block and a switched fuse near the meter as they already have one outside so it's nice any easy, I was hoping to drop the existing fuse down to a 60 and add in a 40, but the house max demand currently sits at 141 with diversity, I can get this down to 122 if I change a few breakers down, but I'm miles off.
What size breaker do you normally use for the kitchen socket circuit?
@@oliverriall Are those demand figures calculated? The maths for demand is gash, it may be better to put a clamp on and record actual measurements over different time periods (difficult as winter demands are different to summer of course), but the maths for my house works out at 160-ish and my 60A fuse has never blown, it's just that I have a lot of circuits. Take a look at the likely actual demand of each, for example on lighting add up or measure the real load in use than just going on it being a 6A circuit. For a kitchen, I put in 32A as 20 or below can nuisance trip with kettles/toasters and such.
Loving the new set up by the way. Nige wears the brains in your pants..... Admit it.... :) Interesting, so next time we get shite IR the next question to ask is have you bought shite off the internet recently? I've heard bleaching the plug can work. Is that something we can try?
Whats the conclusion?.. ..silicone in the plastic blend...glass fibre reinforcement maybe.....was there no mold mark inside to say the make up ?.....cheers
Was the plug CE marked ? Perhaps meaning chinese equivalent or caveat emptor ? Someone mentions gold plated audio leads below. Gold plated optical audio ones are available !
Next Best thing to a friday night in the pub lol cheers guys that was good entertainment.. and educational.. am i a bugger for wanting one of you to zap the other with those test leads..
I've had Nige before by IR'ing a socket circuit he was still working on. Heh heh heh....
Below ambient air temperature the plug surface aquires a very thin, very slightly conductive film of condensation from the air, once at room temperature it evaporates again.
Very curious. 🤔 and highly entertaining! 😂🤣👍👊
Curious indeed Ant! Thanks for watching!
Maybe the insulation is faulty? Then he asks about "What would it be like plastic to plastic?" Is rendering "999", but yesterday it was giving a low resistance reading!!!!!!!!!! How does the resistance being proportional to temperature rank for following required specifications? I would hope you reported it and that the authorities immediately required all stocks withdrawn.
Yeah, interesting & a bit bizarre. But all throughout the vid, I was transfixed on the funky "Blockbuster" style led lights to the left of your board. Where did you get them from?
They're Nanoleaf panels. I did a video about them last year: ua-cam.com/video/rYu7JLGpWyQ/v-deo.html
Use it as a thermometer/thermistor. Cheers, Gordon
13:54 Poor Nige 😆😆😆
Hi David, great video thanks.
You mentioned rcd faults being accumulative. Did you mean with regards to a single rcd's earth leakage or multiple circuits adding to the total trip current?
Didn't quite understand that one.
Thanks Paul
Hi Paul. I'm referring to a cumulative effect from resistances in parallel. Each circuit downstream of the RCD has an IR, hopefully a high one, but Ohms law for resistances in parallel shows the overall resistance at a common point (the neutral bar) will be below that of the lowest circuit IR. If the resistance between neutral and earth drops too low, then we can see leakage between neutral/earth which would trouble the RCD. I hope that makes sense, I was battering the gin & tonics last night....
@@dsesuk Thanks for explaining that. Much appreciated
That's a nice oscilloscope in the background.
HP 54201A perchance?
It's the 54200A. I bought it off an old electronics guy in 2011. He was retiring and selling off a rather wonderful man-cave of stuff. Doesn't see much use these days, but it still works.
@@dsesuk It's always handy to have one kicking around. My little Rigol has sanity checked a ton of things for me during its life. :)
And there are gonna get more and more important in the future with the whole mess of smart devices and sensitive electronics and all sorts of EMF thrown off them.
As I've said before, you two should be on the stage, Eric and Ernie, Delboy and Rodney Laurel and Hardy etc
I would agree but entirely different levels of intellect and common sense 😳🤪🤣
Funny guys tho I've learnt quite a few interesting things from our dave. 💪 (not just a way with words)
Brilliant 😂😂
Thanks for this Mr S, and Nige, interesting info yet again and as entertaining as ever. Looking forward to you two in a Hot tub ...... that is what you meant isn't it? ;)
Once seen, it cannot be unseen Olly.
Did you not cool down the other plug? Just wondering what the result would be!
some coffee mugs plates and stuff are made from ceramic glaze that contains lead oxide.
Brilliant video again as always loved it, shame Nigel isn't the show runner he's much better than you David, how did you miss that marvelous "butt plug" reference shame on you.
Nige is the puppet master really, I'm just the pretty front man.
@@dsesuk makes my day watching you two with your banter, enjoy your weekend lads.
Nice work Dave !!!..Is that an old Avo meter up on the shelf ??
It is Frank, sadly not in working order or I would have shown it doing more than just looking pretty by now!
That guy is such a whoosh
These two should be on tv..pmsl
Yeah, but they cancelled Crimewatch UK
Condensation. Where was it manufactured?
If it was condensation it should've affected the other plug they tested in the same way but it was fine. They said in the video it was made in Hong Kong.
Thought you where gonna tell us the rho of the plug
it's like the Morecambe & Wise show, do you share a bed too?
Thinking back 🤔. Wasn’t that weird of those two sleeping in the same bed
We all know Nige is only about because he’s eye candy that pulls in the views.
Everyone loves the moobs
Should be titled how to traumatise and torture a plug
Nothing supplies answers like 1000V up the prongs.
It's a Frost stat plug!
Yep...another good one.....no tea spilt on this one mind you it was close......keep em coming.....How did you get on with the Split the difference woman?
Ah, well, with cases like hers Marky and for the amount involved, I usually just let it slide as it's not worth my time in chasing it up. She has however received a carefully worded email where I explain my disappointment at her easy dismissal of the additional labour and materials we put in to ensure the end result was just as she pleased. Two things though: all warranty is void as we're not going to support an installation that isn't paid for in full (as per our T&C's), and we'll never be back for anything again: she loses her right to use our services. I know that sounds big-headed, but from my experience the bad payers always come back wanting something else doing. Next time, she'll have to try and find someone reputable from the pool of sharks out there, and see how flexible they are in tailoring her project on-the-fly!
@@dsesuk Nice reply to her...and it's not being big headed when you value your service, just a shame she doesn't....anyway was a far nicer reply than the one she would have got from me......be good
In 10 years of PAT testing I have never seen anything like this
It's a new one on us too. Bizarre ain't it?!
PAT testing in caravans in the winter, get many low but pass reading, never bothered to look into why.
It’s all material science fellas and it’s really eye opening that’s why you need to always be humble. Nige bless him. As Sherlock Holmes would say - when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. Environmental factors are another goldmine. Water moisture ingress and RCD Trips are another bother - well a good bother!! You’d want to know that. I am sure temperature variations without water could also create all sorts of weird and wonderful havoc.
Peculiar Plug!
Where did you get them LED panels at the side of the board? Thanks
More on those here Paul: ua-cam.com/video/rYu7JLGpWyQ/v-deo.html
@@dsesuk cheers mate 👍👍
Mem Memera consumer unit,not seen one of those in awhile
Few and far between, at least around here, hence it's rightful place on my new wall of tat Paul.
Well worth buying a known brand with kite mark thanks
I would have thought after being in David's undercarriage, with lubriouse knobshine, it did not self combust at 1000V.
Recycled plastic, it’s full of impurity’s, very small amounts of metal after it’s been recycled from the mass of materials it’s removed from....👍🇮🇲. You two are bloody hilarious, should have your own show..........oh hang on wait.........🤣🤣🤣
Thanh heavens I'm not a customer paying for your time........ (haha)
See if you can do a further video and take it to its absolute extremity's.
Fry the damn thing beyond measure!
John Ward would have melted it by now! I dunno, I kinda like the idea of keeping it around in my box of interesting cack.
@@dsesuk That in retrospect is actually the better thing so that its a learning tool for the future, despite i would genuinely love to see JW smoke the shizzle out of it!