We Built A Coast Shift Mountain Bike!
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- With the release of the SRAM transmission and Shimano's EP801 series with Auto Shift, it seems that eBikes have greater tech than regular mountain bikes! Neil was getting some laps in at Forest of Dean when he realised that he could bring Coast Shift to the non-electric mountain biking world. Using a freewheel chainring from a tandem bike and a 'flexible nylon fixation' Neil was able to engineer this seemingly impossible bit of tech!
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
0:00 - Welcome To Another GMBN Video!
0:20 - How We Made The DIY Coast Shift
2:33 - How Does It Feel?
4:12 - What Are The Downsides?
6:16 - How Does It Affect The Suspension?
7:46 - Does It Work Like A Gearbox Would?
9:18 - Neil's Thoughts On The DIY Coast Shift
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The cinematography is top-notch!!!
i just wanted an angle behind the bike of it shifting in slowmo while he wasnt pedaling!
its so shit lol
The Cinematography has been great for the past few months, but the video content has all been fascinating the past week!!! Very thoughtful and fun!!! I’m loving all of it! GMBN, GCN, tech, and all the channels! Keep it up! I would love it if you could give us XCO full race replays with lots of camera angles so we can see all the drama and elbowing and passing and fighting for position and how rough the riding is over the tech-gnar!!! The new UCI presenters are great for XC & Enduro, but I miss Rob Warner on the DH races. Also, the Enduro races are kind of blind. I do like the track previews for them. Can we get more?!
#gmbn I love series like this. Exploring the ideas we want the bike industry to try. Wireless brakes and other inventions, it’s amazing.
Thanks, what next?
If you have an e-mtb you can do this by zip-tieing the cassette to the spokes of the wheel since crank-motors usually have a freewheeling front gear. I did this on my old e-MBT. Worked perfectly. If anything jams the chain the zip tie will probably snap causing no further damage.
you can also just use the walk assist mode briefly, which on many is a seperate button that slowly rotates the chain round without, allowing you to shift.
@@SimonBauer7 that can be usefull if you are standing still and need to shift. But it is not really the same as what this video is about. Unless it works very differently on non-shimano systems.
I did the same on my ebike. Small ziptie from cassette to spokes and done. Works great. The system does greatly reduce stress on the chain caused by bad shifts. A bad shift on an ebike is really bad. A lot of torque being applied at the wrong time. I took it off for the simple reason I did not like the sound of the crank freewheel as much as the hub freewheel.
@@GarthFlint-nc2vj which brand do you have. The shimano system I have has a completely silent freewheel.
Bosch CX. It has a very course ratchet. Not a nice hub buzz.
You should do a behind the scenes on what goes on in filming a standard gmbn video
Shifting without Pedaling... I love that feature on my Pinion-Gearbox. Even when standing still. Once you get used to it´s potential, you dont want to miss it.
Pinion has been around for so long, just need one big MTB company to come out with an Enduro or trail bike with it. Choises are so limited, especially in the US.
@@trekkie1701eat least, they get some attention through Gamux and Zerode in the racing world. And with the new MGU hopefully some more and bigger players will join. Somehow, on a E-Bike, the "you'll need a special frame" card from the Haters didn't work 😅.
Choices are limited, and pricey, but it's worth every penny. I'll never go back to the old derailleur Bikes.
@@Cassie_MTB Pinion have very few benefits in racing though... Derailleurs are still superior as far as performance is concerned
@@Metal-Possumfor XC and (maybe) Enduro... But if you'll ever ride a Gearbox Bike over gnarly terrain, you'll experience an improvement in your rear suspension. The unsprung mass of the rear is much less with a gearbox and belt. There is a weight penalty, but it's centered and the rear is much lighter. And no Derailleur to destroy 😅
I like the idea. There are even dedicated MTB front freewheeling cranks. I was considering buying them when I replaced cranks lately but they are prohibitable expensive and uncommon. There has to be something wrong with the system since it is not a new idea and it is not popular.
I like the idea of shifting whenever I want. I find myself in the wrong gear quite often when going down, usually in too low gear which I have put on the slow, technical part of the trail but then when the trail gets faster I forget to upshift or I can't shift because of the danger of the pedal hit. Then, when I'd like to pedal to keep the speed I am in the too low gear.
potentially you could dispense with the hub freewheel alltogether by replacing the freehub body with a plain piece of machined aluminium or lightweight steel without the ratchet internals. Such a thing already exists for freehub>>fixed singlespeed conversions. Would reduce unsprung mass. For racing applications you could even have a single piece of machined alloy/lightweight steel for the cassette and body. Or just completely redesign rear hubs to have no freehub element, Cassette attaching directly to the hub shell.
OK so Neil and Blake will be doing a free coasting, gear changing, radio controlled electric braking bike that will probably soon have gyroscopic frame stabilisation which will prevent OTB's unless Neil is in charge of the remote whilst Blake is riding. COOL! 😎👍
Now all they have to do is rig up Martyn's random tandem with all this and no one will be afraid to ride with Martyn again, unless of course Blake and Martyn are riding it and Neil has the controls. 😜👍
Another excellent video! So, Blake's hand-built frame, Blake's wireless brakes, Neil's coaster shifting (plus neutral gear) drivetrain. I think you should see how much of a bike you can put together yourselves, then do some challenges.
My old roommate had a 70s Panasonic bike with the freewheel in the crank. Was a cool bike, but not sure I’d want that system on my own
Rohloff. 1x setup, 14 speed. Shift without pedaling.
Working in my bike since 2005. Flawless
DIY ebike guys use freewheeling cranks, outlets such as Luna Cycle in California will have ISIS splined cranks for your needs. The axles won't snap but you'll be in for new bearings every few months.
This is really cool! Thanks for showing neat ideas and experimenting.
i would ad a adjustable friction system instead of the ziptie - just for safety reason
but this prototype mechanism is at first a really good idea 👍
Next level filming going on
I don't understand why companies haven't switched to having the pivot point of the rear suspension be the bottom bracket. Many private makers build their frames this way. Solves many chain problems at once.
Nice one !! 🤙🏻
Absolutely brilliant! I didn't know e-mtb were already doing this.
Such a cool idea!!
Nice work Neil
I didn’t know something like that existed! Thanks for sharing!
nice, very interesting must give that a ponder for a while
This was a really interesting video! Thanks Neil!
Thanks
Like the idea definitely but like the sound of my rear hub more 😂
Wouldn’t fancy dropping the chain either
been runnin a similar setup on my orbea rise with ep8 motor and xt drivetrain. just a zip tie in the back connecting the casette to the wheel. had no problem with it over the past 2 years. really love the silent freehub in the motor, shifting ist just plain better and with over 6,5k kilometers on the drive ive no complaints about longevity, i case of trouble the zip tie just rips and im back to a regular freehub till i zip tie the casette again
Williams racing products sell something like this called a centre hub and it fits modern cranks…🎉
The center hub spider de-coupler, I wasn't sure if it was available to buy. Definitely not a mass market product but look very promising...
Yeah I knew I had seen it somewhere and tracked it back to them but couldn't see anyway of buying one
Nice one Neil 👍Very interesting , If you can move the Gears to centre if has so many possibilities
Two things, 1) Ross Bicycles, USA had a free wheeling BB in the early 80's, 2) do a test with an internal geared hub such as the Rohloff.
Shimano did it in the 1970s, and dropped it soon after.
Good on you, Neil. It's called innovation. That's how things move forward!
Cheers
As for doing the same as O-chain - it doesn't work that way. Traditional, low-engagement point freehub behaves the same, it has some slop until engagement but it is inconsistent. It depends on how close you are to the next "click" of the ratchet or pawls when the bump occurs.
really great idea. really great.
I really want coast shift on my analogue bike. Think it would be a game changer.
My 1972 Schwinn Suburban has this feature :)
I have several HXR components cranksets that do this. It's great and they make a very good noise.
this is the way to go, shifting as you go, you could have a much ligher rear wheel. and easy bolt on sprokets
Long term test please!
Let off pressure with every shift and you are good. Most people dont do that but that's all you need.
Well done Neil great 😃 idea and as you said it may take a bit of engineering to get through s as a product but reckon it certainly can be done and give lots of benefits
This would be excellent for beginner riders and kids!
Im actually doing this as my project for mechanical engineering in aim of creating a
Low cost mountain bike
But my project involves converting the a freewheel yo fit the bottom bracket
Similiar to what you pointed out in trials bikes
My Rocky Powerplay e-bike has a spider clutch in the crankset. It works great but I’ve already worn out one set of bearings and the unit is expensive to buy. If just the bearing part was available I could see a lot more bike manufacturers trying this type of system out.
I like silent bike, lets hope we will see a new Silent hub again.
I realy like the idea very cool. Would like to buy if it works good
3:21 you can do this exact thing by using walk assist mode briefly, does the same thing.
Can you use walk assist in high speed?
The music at 1:44 slaps way too hard for a bike vid, nice.
What would happen if the rear mech was a bit misaligned and the chain either bounced off the cassette into the wheel or the frame? In a normal freewheel you would stop pedalling to avoid further damage.
Is there a reason that the industry doesn't just move the freewhel from the hub to the crank / BB? There is certainly space there to build the cranks around this feature without changing frame standards.
@gmbn Neil, how about if you remove the zip tie so the wheel will just spin & the cog would be steady.
I beleive williams racing products and intend both have systems for this setup
I had a Ross bicycle road bike that came with that set up it was nice to shift without pedaling
It should be slightly more efficient coasting with a typical setup, where only the freewheel is spinning. With this setup of freewheel on crank your whole drivetrain is spinning in addition to the front freewheel. Also I assume chain, cassette, jockey wheels, and front chainring will wear quicker if they are spinning for 100% of your ride instead of roughly 50% of it, probably not a lot of wear as they aren't under load but not moving is less wear than some moving. Maybe the masses would like shifting while coasting, and bike industry may like components wearing out slightly faster, but maybe racers don't like extra friction and that's why it's not standard?
There's HXR components in France that make a "real" coast shift crankset for mtb!
I'm not an engineer, but i need to replace the rear hub or free hub at least once a year free cost shifts aren't the big bonus here more room for more durable ratchet and berings is definitely what I want ...
Shimano made a system like this in the 1970s called FFS that works the same way
This is a more complicated way of getting the shifting advantages of a gearbox. Still like to see you guys being super creative though!
I commented this halfway through the video 😂
1:25 that right crank is twisted af
Shimano actually made a purpose built group set for this in I believe the 80s or it was early 90s
Interested experiment, by the way my Electra commuter urban eBike has an 8 speed Shimano Nexus hub, can change gears without pedaling or whilst stopped 😉
Now that would be a dream to have on my Capra, since I ruined the derailleur and hanger in like two crashesh, also no cassette or expensive chain 😉
Interesting Neil i am right thinking the poe is super slow not ideal for tech climbing ?
Intend make a crank freewheel system called rocksteady for this exact purpose, curious why they didn’t use it
Smart move
I think Williams racing products (WRP) makes something like this.
I hate derailleurs! Transmissions are the way to go!
how does that spectral ride? thinking of getting one
Love it, I need to ride it more. It's gone down 10mm travel on the previous Spectral (which I also loved) but it doesn't feel any less planted
@@neildonoghueMTB Sounds great! looking forward to when it comes back in stock!
The risk of stick damage to the wheel or drive train, in this setup, is based on the strength of the cable tie that is used to immobilise the cassette.
True but you need a fairly sturdy zip tie otherwise you do feel a bit of stretch when you start pedalling
The we the people full suspension BMX should have this setup and 7 gears with big distance between the gears it's so a fun bike but you gotta keep the speed because it has no gears..it can be used for many things all bike's should have the option to do this maybe another lever on the handle bar you can brake down and shift many gears while breaking down like on a motorcross bike braking holding in the clutch and step really fast at the shifter while keeping the rpm up ..maybe more brands should go for pinions solution motor gear box I don't know how their non motor gear box work's,,but I think this was a good idea hope producer's got inspired
there is a product by intend also doing this as well as one by williams racing. both are probably way better suited for mtb
Calculate the chain growth of your suspension and compare it to the engagement translateur to acos of your front freewheel system
arc cosine?
Williams racing products has a spider for this
Not a new idea.Shimano in the 1980s had this system and called it Shimano FF( Front Freewheel)
I found that but couldn't get much info about it
@@neildonoghueMTB Hi Neil, one of my schoolmates had it on his bike. The rear hub also incorporated a disc brake. There was still a free-wheel in the rear hub which must have a friction element in it. If anything got caught in the chain the rear freewheel would enable the chain to stop rotating. I only ever saw it on road bikes.
I'm guessing that 'flexible nylon fixation' = cable ties?
Hello i have a question here: Have anyone of you ever noticed play in the Shimano centerlock system? If turn my wheels back and forward while locking the brake i get a small rotation between centerlock disc and my hub. Is this normal?
You're probably missing the aluminium shim in between the lock ring and the rotor?
@@LaurentiusTriarius i need to check that. Got my bike from the dealer and didn't change anything yet
That shim is called a wave washer and regardless of having it I get play even with a brand new lock ring. What I've done to solve the issue is using very thin ( think soda can thin or even thinner) brass material and shim it between the teeth on the hub and lock ring. Its hard to explain with words but works perfectly. I use 2 of them probably about 4mm x 10mm ideally on the the top and the bottom. If you're struggling to get the play out and my description hasn't helped comment and I'll try to figure out how to get you some pictures.
@@LaurentiusTriariusthe aluminum shim is there
@@HindsightFPVI'm going to try that out as soon as I can :D
BB's take a lot of punishment from all the different ways power is applied, rider weight on drop-offs. Is it more than the rear wheel, dunno, but I would like longevity to be demonstrated before leaping in.
Interesting, so if I’m following this correctly are you suggesting this can make a low pivot bike perform like a high pivot bike by neutralising pedal kick back?
HxR from Romain Olmos has been offering mtb cranks with freewheel and at the beginning claimed it would kill kickback but it doesn't kill it anymore than your rear freewheel. Changing the location of the freewheel doesn't change anything.
I dont think it would change it as much as that, a high pivot is still giving the initial rearward axle movement which will be the biggest thing you feel to help with small bumps
imagine that having engine braking if pedaling backwards XD
Still can't static shift like hub gears do
The only hub gear I've had also means you have to back off the power quite a lot to get to shift though which wouldn't be much good on MTB
@@neildonoghueMTB I see! Then I would advise to have a look at MTB specific hubs like Kindernay or Revolute before gearboxes render everything else useless
Why aren't you sad that all the high pitched freewheel noise is gone?
Ahh. So that's how the DH'ers shift w/o pedalling!
I dont see the need for gears what so ever, cannot recall you pedaling in the video at all.
Intend.
shimano ffs already exists lol
just get a pinion gearbox
Shut up and take my money! 💸
Excellent, I have one slightly used system and accept bitcoin 😂
Works like O-Chain but too many downsides 😆
The fact that it's square taper alone is enough for me to INMEDIATELY discard any chance of ever running it
I raced DH and did huck to flat freeriding on square tapered BB's, I didn't die 😂 as many others did ...
nothing wrong with squre-taper to be honest. it lasts. but there ARE modern cranks for exactly this setup..... ask Cornelius.... ;)
@@thomaswayout9081 sorry man, HARD disagree. Every time i have ever used square taper i just end up wrecking EVERYTHING, even on a city zipper style E-Bike (although they look mad boring, they're no joke and with the right tyres they feel like arcade mode IRL, too bad most of them have the foldable style frame wich literally dooms them to destruction once the hinge fails)
Also, external BB has the benefit of being lighter overall, wich is a nice extra
Yeah... Slight problem. I have fond memories of snapping square taper bb's on jumps as a kid and almost cutting my foot off
@@neildonoghueMTB Y I K E S, how did you almost cut off your foot?
Shimano did it in the 80s, and dropped it....
Personally, I find freeshifting stupid (to say the least). Please this ain't to bash on you!
Most of us is travelling bellow 50km/h or ~14m/s, and at this rate you can't drop 3 or 4 cogs?
And to be thruth, most people change gears bellow 20!... so....
Why didn't Shimano go back?
first
There is no point in doing this on an MTB. If you aren't moving, you can't shift with this system either, and if you are moving, there is nothing preventing you from pedaling. So in a practical sense it adds friction for no benefit, because unlike with gearboxes you can't shift while standing still, your gears are still external making them susceptible to dirt, you still have a rear mech that could break off from hitting a rock or a fall, and you still can't use a belt which means there will be no reduction in time that you have to spend on maintenance.
The point is more for setting youre self up in the right gear for when you have to put in a pedal stroke or 2 on a down hill section. If you're flying down hill through technical terrain, the last thing you wanna do is have to pedal and risk a pedal strike to setup for a flat pedaling section coming up. It's not for everyone but it saves second here and there for racers.
Trial bikers have little weak legs.... yeah ok then. Lets see your scrawny legs help side hop over 5ft.
You ride EMTB. Says it all about your leg strength lol
someone took a joke too seriously, or do feel attacked because you have weak legs yourself.
So what gimmick crap
Road bikes back in the day had these. Old technology.
intend rocksteady magic. hxr easyshift ;) bit spendy but nice