Le combat en armure, Daniel Jaquet
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Dans le cadre de l'exposition "L'Epée. Usages, mythes et symboles", organisée au musée de Cluny - musée national du Moyen Age jusqu'au 26 septembre, Daniel Jaquet, chercheur à l'université de Genève, propose ce petit film reconstituant des combats en armure médiévale.
Un bon moyen de lutter contre les idées reçues!
A friend of mine just showed me this because I play a paladin in a campaign (with semi-realistic armor *-ahem-*)--I already knew knights were more mobile than my fellow players like to argue about, but this was a lovely demonstration to see for myself for once!
+1 Like for disrupting the fallacies, whoo!
The important part is that it's *more* mobile than most people like to believe, but it most certainly is restrictive. Armour in most tabletop games is completely misunderstood.
Merci pour tout ce travail qui nous démontre comment on pouvait se battre en armure (c'est plus crédible que les "statues" des films de cinéma)
This is the coolest shit ever, and I'd pay money to watch fights like this.
Battle of the nations
Gandalf Mithrandir is nothing close
The only fault in thia video is that they didnt unscrew the pommel and throw it at each other. This is deadlier than half-swording
+Matheus Bernardo Skallagrim fan detected.
+finkster As well as a someone with absolutely no capacity for originality. That was tired and boring about 3 seconds after it appeared the first time...
1:34 Dat fatroll, you need havel's ring bro.
+Threeshades Hell yeah! ^^
bruh Dragon slayer's ring!
get that stamina up, they look exhausted
After this part 00:36 there is more than enough evidence to laugh at the infamous video of the katana vs aluminium chestplate...
1:34 Dat Dark Souls fat roll...
Thought the same thing. That fatroll.
Same here
+1
ThatFeelBr0 yee
I used this to prove my English professor wrong about mobility in plate armor. it was awesome lmao
The key to defeating an opponent in plate armor is to simply unscrew the pommell from your weapon and end him rightly.
Très bonne vidéo qui casse les préjugés ou idées reçues qui prétendent que les chevaliers ne pouvaient pas se relever , moi je n'y ai jamais cru à ces clichés. On voit bien que les armures étaient mobiles se ne gênaient pas les chevaliers .
Superbe ces armures polies.
Le travail des artisans est incroyable, même avec des outils modernes.
Qu'elle agilité aussi.
10/10 would summon.
1:35 your equip load is above 70% quick take something off!
what rings you got bitch? Havels ring?
\[T]/
V
ll
Quick! Praise the sun!
D'ailleurs vous remarquerez que toutes les sources datent de la toute fin du Moyen age ou bien de la renaissance, cela a donc le mérite de casser le cliché de "l'armure de plate vitrine de l'époque médiévale" alors que ces armures apparaissent très tardivement dans le moyen age, et connaissent leur apogée après celui ci .
Yep, the myth that an armored knight was helpless and couldn't get up once they hit the ground was the death of many in those days.
If a knight fell from horse the hel could fracture some bones - wish luck getting up with a broken leg - a beetle indeed
Leszek Cyfer
Actually you'd be surprised how much the padding and the armor protects you from injury if you fall like that since it's made to protect you from impact in the first place.
I've fallen from about 12 feet off a wall while wearing modern body armor and didn't suffer any broken ribs or serious injury because the body armor took the impact.
Eric Moore I have a friend who believes that myth even after showing him this video). He thinks the armor is useless and the knights were too slow to hit anyone, and that a katana could cut through plate armor. Haha such a dumb ass.
Travis, a katana can't even cut through maile armor much less plate.
Damn its the first few hours of dark souls. Man those hours were tough.
coool! J'en veux une comme ça!
That bashes hard on the ridiculous "fallen knight cannot get up" imagination. But gives me an English edition pls!
Yes and no. This type of armour, which is BATTLE armor, the idea is silly and stupid. However, for PURE tourney armour, where the idea was to have a GAME, rather than a fight to the death, there was indeed armour that could literally could not get up in, if you fell. That is less due to the weight, though, and more due to the fact that it was entirely rigid.
***** this type of armor was used in the War of the roses by nobles and Men At Arms a like. It had the weight equivalent to that of a modern day marine or ranger equipment.
Chen Alex Indeed. Armor weighs a lot less than the stupid Hollywood myths would lead you to believe, (mine's about 40lbs. Some is upwards of 60lbs) and is dispersed evenly across the body, and honestly you really get used to wearing it. I do weight training in an MIR weighted vest that weighs over 100lbs in the chest, and can still run and jump etc. Average weight carried by a modern soldier in a dismounted operation is about 100lbs, rucksack included on constant foot patrol for many days.Armor ain't all that bad, and you totally feel like a fkn badass. The only thing is the heat, if you're wearing a gambeson beneath. I sweat buckets in armored training. It's horrible XD
WolfmanXX Alexander No. A US marine carries much more weight than a medieval knight.
REDWOLF5652 Wow. you professional
this is really awesome, thanks for uploading
they could do fucking cartwheels in full articulated plate armor. whoever came up with the idea that it was cumbersome and bulky should be sacked.
***** any smith that made bad armor wouldn't have been making armor for the knights
well said
+Damn Vox It's still clearly cumbersome and bulky. Are they doing parkour? No. They're managing to competently climb ladders and stand up. And sure a cartwheel (which does not involve moving in particularly difficult ways if you think about a cartwheel...) It's merely that it's not nearly cumbersome ENOUGH to outweigh the benefits.
Gavin Jenkins it was also form fitting and lighter than your average marine's equipment nowadays.
Damn Vox Yes, and marine's equipment is also bulky and cumbersome (but just still worth it).
Intéressant, merci
Well they still sound like tin cans, but they're certainly more nimble than I would have expected. Very cool.
2:34 just brings a smile to my face :)
Haval ring needed
@whop9
Depends on the acting person! You have to consider: the armour has to be laid on by helping servants, one must also get to the place of that combat! But youre absolutely right! Most people forget, the time when those full plated armours were used were the times of over 200 years use of the crossbow. Full plate-armour without a haubert (dont know the enlish word for the long chain-clothing) has only be weared by knights in the late 15th and early 16th century, though. bla bla bla...:)
Why would anyone think a man in armor is encumbered after seeing this excellent demonstration?
This is beautiful
Take That, D&D!
Очень классное видео!!1
0:19 did that pauldron shoulder piece on the left just bend???
0:58 whoever said they watch this for the plot is lyin'
2:53
you handle it well man.
I wonder what those harnesses are.
The one with the sallet = Italian(?)
The one with the great bascinet-looking thing = French(?)/German(?)/English(?)
It's said at the begining of the video. The one with the sallet is the armor of Italian mercenary leader Roberto Sanseverino. The other is the armor of Elector Palatine Frederick I.
1:34 - Dark souls, lol
@taron13777
I don't know how much you think historical armor weight, some was under 20 kg. I don't think these are actual antiques, but replicas.
C'est intéressant , mais franchement, je peux pas m’empêcher de penser a Perceval et Karadok quand ils s'entrainent...
2:58
Judo in plate armor. Awesome.
PRAISE THE SUN!
рыцарь, которого бьют мечом
@gurkfisk89
I also have doubts that anyone would allow to perform like that in actual antiques.
Il y a le grand jd ces lui qui a réalisé a la fin il y a sont nom (Julien Donzé)
Things have changed homie.
Hevnoraak Thu'um Hell yeah
How much kgs does it weight?
2:59 the drawing shows a lift not a sitdown
Lors de la dernière démonstration, le combattant au sol ne semble pas chercher à contrôler la dague ou la main qui la tient. Il ne cherche pas à le faire pour le bien de la démonstration ou son armure ne lui donne pas la mobilité nécessaire?
and you wonder what the hell armour the orcs in the LotR are making?
After wearing this armour for maybe 4 hours any of those movements would be different...
@ursusrussus
Never said that there is a such problem. My message was in fact to support your opinion, that they are replicas.
Is it me, or the metal, with which these plates were made, is much lighter, than I think it have been back in the days, by the sounds of it? Are those suits of armour really original or copies?
Those were reconstructions of real armors worn by Frederic I (1450) and Robertt de sanseverino (1485) , they aren't lighter nor heavier than the originals. Armors in the middle age weren't extremely heavy a knight should be able to fight easily with them.
2:27 the drawing is different
1:53 the drawing is different.
1:35 a dark souls worthy moment
It's definitely steel. Aluminium would not work as a solid materal for armor plates. It had to be steel, nothing else was quite as good.
How much do these suits weigh?
+brett knoss A full suit of gothic plate armour, would weigh around 20 to 25 kgs (45 to 55 lbs)
+brett knoss a modern soldier armor would weight TWICE of that.
думаю что за такие блестящие железяки, многие северные народности этих ребят голыми руками на сувениры разобралиб.
Да он просто рыцарь 80 лвла.
смотрю все с Лурка
Сила на максимум прокачена))
oh! dark souls
Now it only needs power supply and we'll have heavy exoskeleton.
познавательно
Выглядит все очень легко, но на самом деле, это 30-40 кг в которых может и удобно, но очень тяжело двигаться.
Меньше, 20-25 кг
3:48
"Не пробил!"
a katana that is folded 6 million times would cut through their armor
No
Katana is nice sword for medieval Japan circumstances. But it's not effective against tank.
I don't know if you are a troll or not. Katana is a pretty shitty weapon compared to european weapons. Vikings for example made waaay better steel than japanese... but 1000 years earlier.
Gimli Sohn
That because Japan has very shitty iron ore, and in little quantities. This way, japan armor made of leather with very little inclusion of metal, and their weaponsmiths invented tons of ways to make this iron little better. This forging secrets need not to make uberwaffe-sword, but to make sword good enough to cut through japan armor. Modern katana, forged from good steel can be viewed as a longsword version of caucasian sword "shashka" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shashka
Even in russian Central Armed Forces Museum, katanas captured during Battles of Khalkhin Gol, called "japanese shashkas".
Popularity of katana as an uberwaffe coming from films, videogames and anime. It can be compared with Desert Eagle - good looking weapon for sofa warriors, but useless in real circumstances.
Lynchevatel
I knew that they had poor metal. But the popularity fucks me up :D
Dark Soul barrel roll was realistic after all... LOL
@nonapolis Ха. ха.
1:34 dark souls
@ursusrussus видимо это чугун :)
Мужик в латах, за что тебя так?
береста приказал
на самом деле я не представляю, как он прыгает в этих латах, они же не 10кг весят
В армии у меня, броник, сфера, вещмешок (в котором не только сухпай, спальник, запасные портянки и исподнее было, но еще и ОЗК резиновый) , автомат, БК, ротная рация, весило кило 30 не меньше... И с этим по пересеченной местности 10 км за часа полтора пробегали со всякими там, "вспышка слева"... Это для 19 летних пацанов, которые и спортом каким никаким только каждый третий занимались на гражданке...
хммм... доспехи титановые????
Не знал, что так мечом уебешь и не больно:) Айронмэн нахуй!
I can imagine Life Alert getting way more bank in the medieval era.
Knights after an earthquake: We've fallen and can't get up!
Life Alert: Help is on the way!
So, essentially, you didn't actually watch the video?
+MoonEyes2k No I did, I saw that they could get up just fine but I could imagine if they couldn't
***** Ah!
Вполне себе развенчивает миф о невозможности передвигаться в доспехе. Иначе бы их просто не использовали. А под жопой подразумевается наличие коня.
ты просто доспехов никогда в реале не видел! Тем более не надевал!
Ну да,работники музея не видели настоящих доспехов...
вес написали бы
а вообще кольчуга наверно лучше
метал в ролике был похоже более современный (легче)... поэтому клоуны и кувыркались... на деле думаю все было куда более - грустно
Дико извиняюсь за некропост, но современная сталь от исторической по весу отичается примерно никак. (Разброс плотности между различными сплавами железа на превышает 10%. Разброс плотности сталей - не более 4%). Заметная разница будет в коррозиеустойчивости, износостойкости, твердости, упругости и цене.
Это бутафория. В таких побрякушках защититься нельзя даже от крестьянина с вилами, привыкшего к физическому труду. А более весомое обмундирование воевать в пешем порядке не позволяет, только верхом с сильными ограничениями.
А рыцарь,которого обучали этому с 7-ми лет типо не привык к физическому труду.Лонично...
Сравнивать человека который всю жизнь пашет землю и убирает навоз и человека который всю жизнь из рук не выпускает меч, все равно что сравнивать корову и тигра... Корова много массивнее, у нее груда мяса, но шансов у нее против тигра, один к 100 в лучшем случае...
А защиты для достоинства нету.
@Arxangelism а хрен вас знает
На самом деле костюмчик из фальги ,а за камерой стоит мужик и трясет пустыми консервными банками
Мужик трясёт банками прямо в такт с движениями,а фольга вообще не гнется.Прям волшебство!
Affreux et très bien fait.
2:09