So you have certainly shown the need for some of our coming improvements, you were subject to common mistakes that are easy to make when first playing the course and yes, we are well aware of the flaws. I just can't stop tinkering with it lol. New Tee signs are coming. I've made a lot of good changes since I designed this course but they aren't yet reflected in signs because I'm actually not done changing the course, you missed out on holes 10 long and long hole 11. I will point out you played hole 5 short, hole 7 long Hole 8 is my favorite hole because it is demanding and will eat you up but is very birdy possible with two solid shots. I totally expected to see trouble for your first go on that one. Hole 9 = happens every time lol. But I'm about to stake out the boundary between 9 and 10 with foot tall stakes for a visual barrier, the two fairways will be out of bounds from one another and will be noted on the new signs. Sorry about Chris gets ultra focused on his work lol, but we couldn't do it without him, he's awesome. All roads play as rivers for future reference and will be reflected in the new signs. And I have a 10x20 net I'm about to figure out how to hang between 13 and 14s teepad, it's not common to get one crashing in there, but it does happen from time to time. I've already hung a net between 18 and 10s tees. My new par 5 pin on 16 was put in last spring and is one of my favorite changes on the course, I have put it back in one of the other two from time to time, but it's just not better in the shorter ones. Thank you a ton for the videos brother, I enjoy them. I've been wanting to see this course reviewed like this for a long time. I'm proud of this one, but I also know every flaw and thing I want to change and improve so I'm much tougher on it than others are. There are a LOT of awesome things coming at this course. If you are ever back in the area get in touch, come stay a couple days and let me show you around, you're going to be blown away. And the new tee signs are going to be designed by a very talented sign designer and I'm excited! The other holes are designed, now I just need funds and time! And some volunteers to clear fairways :) My goal was never to be ranked highly, that was a pleasant surprise, but with the future stuff I'm bringing it! We're a very small operation trying to accomplish some big things, so please bear with us as we grow.
It is, stunning and replayable. I'm glad you enjoyed watching the review! Its definitely worth the stop if you head that way, and worth planning a trip for!
There is a point late winter into early spring when the different grass seed planted around many of the more open landing areas and greens ends up popping green well before the fairways and as the seasons change and the green in the trees start to pop and the wysteria on hole 15 blooms, it's pretty stunning, especially right as the sun is going down to be teeing off and playing hole 15. giving just enough time to enjoy the rest of the course and get to the car before dark. Come see us sometime.
So couple thoughts on what you said from someone who has been playing 30+ years. Courses back in the day were designed way shorter & technical due to the constraints of the disc tech at the time. With the plastic tech & players learning proper throwing techniques right off the bat the sport has changed allot. When I started there was no youtube, you figured it out on your own. Those courses that are being neglected are usually the short par 3 style courses that present little to no challenge for the newer generation. The thing I wish people would get is that those short par 3 courses are what brings new players into the game. Locally we have a very short par 3 woods course that is our most popular (usually with newer players & older guys), in a close 2nd is a 10,000ft beast of a course that allot of the younger & longer throwers prefer. Not many new players are going to want to start out on a monster par 4 style layout & not get frustrated very quickly. Those local par 3's, short wooded courses are where 90% of us learned the game. Have a Merry Christmas!🎀
Merry Christmas to you as well! That point is fair, short older courses can draw in newer players. They have their place for sure as long as they are maintained!
For your hole 9 breakdown you raise some good points. For me I would love some more well designed longer courses. I would love to try and actually play golf with some more par 4 and 5 holes. the only issue is not everyone can throw 400+ including myself so par is a bit arbitrary at that point (and so, in a way is my point.) I would love for the discgolf world to open up more in the course maintenance scene and to have things like fairs where groups get together and manicure and even redesign courses. It is probably happening but it feels like it doesn't happen enough. I am thinking of courses like the Beast with all that autumn olive and lines that just feel lost to overgrowth, and tee pads that are super dated.
The Beast in Ludington? I hear you on the maintenance and upkeep - seems a waste to not give the current courses we have the attention needed to make them the best they can each be! It's always sad to arrive at a new course and see it neglected. I'm glad you enjoyed the hole nine break, I put a lot of thought into each of them!
I heard, somewhere that the more popular courses tend to be the short par 3 courses. They’re great for beginners and recreational players. Most designers should focus on them as they can. Of course, great topography can change things. Maple Hill has multiple options.
In Minnesota there is starting to be some demand shortage between all the high level courses like Blue Ribbon Pines, The Preserve and more that is perhaps made worse by the long winters. The Maintanance costs for courses are not going down, and while there are more players than ever, the growth rate 2023-2024 slowed from it’s prior growth during 2020-2022. I know this because many big courses are offering steep discounts for early joiners and new members, because cash is needed for upkeep and basic staffing. Also, I mostly like to play smaller more technical courses because I am a beginner and my arm is sore with longer courses, those are more occasional.
Seasons Greetings Hunter. Since you’re back down south again I wanted to follow up about a course I recommended to you a while back-Live Oaks in Sumter, SC. Upon further review I think it may be one you want to skip. The course is alright, but not great. Plus, I’m not sure if Sumter is a good destination for a van lifer such as yourself. Sorry that this is a long message, but I just wanted to redact my statement about “Whimsical” Live Oaks. Thanks, and safe travels
Should have just gone back up to 9 tee and played it how it was supposed to be played and either keep the footage from paying it wrong or delete it. Would have been nice to see how the hole is supposed to be played. Great video!
@mriforgiate I definitely could have but I like to just keep the play through authentic! Also helps the course designers address where there may be some confusion! Glad you enjoyed it!
Boy, that list is long. I believe it is 11 states so far. Check them all out on the Channel Playlists - they are organized by state. Only played in the United States, though I'd love to check out other countries in the future if I can!
@ awesome! I’ve played once in Scotland while there on a work trip. Got a free disc from a local there with the stamp of the local club, Inverness Disc Golf Club. Has the Loch Ness monster on it!
I do not like these really long courses. I still want to have a working arm by time I'm 40 lol. I'm definitely not adding to the amount of birdies (pun intended) on those courses. A good course should have tight lines in the woods.
That's a true Michigan course! As long as it's not ridiculous. My favorite local course is Henderson Nature Preserve, which I made a video on! The tight lines are punishing and at the same time you don't get very mad because there's just something perfect about the fairways and every one is different.
Jokes aside I do like a mix of tight lines in the woods and some more open long holes. I’m in East Tennessee, so the majority of courses are tight woods. I’m 40 and long courses don’t bother me as long as I only throw backhand.
@@henryschilling1106 it really is a great mix of east coast golf. Elevation changes, about a third of it is tighter but fair woods lines. If it's open there's a hazard or a guarded green. If it's a long hole, they typically require shot shaping. The uphill climbs aren't typically slogs and the downhill throws are absolute payoffs both scenically and shot satisfaction. If you're in the area it is definitely worth a visit.
Build new courses vs maintain existing properties. This is a concern, but it is not disc golf-specific. Businesses and governments go through the same thing. A mayor gets more press from cutting the ribbon at a new building than he gets for repairing the city water pipes. Building something new is fun. Doing upkeep on somebody else's stuff is boring and hard. The upkeep on decent small courses is super important for new players. Other old courses not worth saving should be pulled so the land can be reused.
I care more about a course being memorable, having memorable holes, and courses being fun rather than length or difficulty. That being said I go back to my last thought. People rating courses wrong and/or based off of nostalgia or some type of weird virtue signally rating. Case: played champions pointe dgc in “grooveland” (clermont) florida a few days ago. One hole summed up the whole course, and honestly it was MEH, but it was rated 91st in the world. Same day i played okeeheelee park in west palm beach florida, and it was way better (not in top 100, and a 4.3 rated compared to champions pointe 4.6). I find it crazy how someone (for it to be a 4.6) gave champions pointe a 5 star. In what world is it even worthy of a top 1000? How bad are 20,000 other courses that champions pointe is ranked #91? I have local courses that I would rank better in savannah GA. Keep up the good work on your videos, appreciate getting to see someone play them rather than just relying Udisc ratings.
I'm with you - there are many more aspects that make a course incredible and ratings often don't reflect what a course really is. That's why I started the Channel! It's great to hear you like seeing the course reviews and play through for each of them. I have a lot of playlists that go state-by-state if you are curious about more based on location!
Champions Point is a nice course. For those who don't know it the defining feature is the number of Live Oak trees. I can understand someone from Savannah not being impressed at all but it's a game saver to play in the shade all summer long. It's too far from the coast to get a cool sea breeze every afternoon so it's great to have a shaded course that you can give your discs a full send. It is also a course that is so long that I'm not as tempted to take extra shots off of every tee and a birdie/par is earned. While it's not my favorite course I do look forward to playing it.
@@mdfrank57 thats cool lots of oaks, and? Than what? I agree it’s nice having a course almost fully shaded, but that does not make a great course. The course is fine, good, not great. Literally one hole on the course sums up the whole entire experience. If i take you to multiple courses by me you will remember more than “lots of oaks” or “lots of pine trees and shade” your going to remember the 300+ ft shot across the lake. The whole off the slightly elevated tee pad running along side the lake with the cake/pyramid landing zone with a basket on top, or the shot across a road and down into the pines. Not just pine trees and shade, that would be my local 9 hole in gsu, thats fine but I would NEVER call great or put in the top 100.
So you have certainly shown the need for some of our coming improvements, you were subject to common mistakes that are easy to make when first playing the course and yes, we are well aware of the flaws. I just can't stop tinkering with it lol. New Tee signs are coming. I've made a lot of good changes since I designed this course but they aren't yet reflected in signs because I'm actually not done changing the course, you missed out on holes 10 long and long hole 11.
I will point out you played hole 5 short, hole 7 long
Hole 8 is my favorite hole because it is demanding and will eat you up but is very birdy possible with two solid shots. I totally expected to see trouble for your first go on that one.
Hole 9 = happens every time lol. But I'm about to stake out the boundary between 9 and 10 with foot tall stakes for a visual barrier, the two fairways will be out of bounds from one another and will be noted on the new signs. Sorry about Chris gets ultra focused on his work lol, but we couldn't do it without him, he's awesome.
All roads play as rivers for future reference and will be reflected in the new signs. And I have a 10x20 net I'm about to figure out how to hang between 13 and 14s teepad, it's not common to get one crashing in there, but it does happen from time to time. I've already hung a net between 18 and 10s tees.
My new par 5 pin on 16 was put in last spring and is one of my favorite changes on the course, I have put it back in one of the other two from time to time, but it's just not better in the shorter ones.
Thank you a ton for the videos brother, I enjoy them. I've been wanting to see this course reviewed like this for a long time. I'm proud of this one, but I also know every flaw and thing I want to change and improve so I'm much tougher on it than others are.
There are a LOT of awesome things coming at this course. If you are ever back in the area get in touch, come stay a couple days and let me show you around, you're going to be blown away. And the new tee signs are going to be designed by a very talented sign designer and I'm excited! The other holes are designed, now I just need funds and time! And some volunteers to clear fairways :)
My goal was never to be ranked highly, that was a pleasant surprise, but with the future stuff I'm bringing it! We're a very small operation trying to accomplish some big things, so please bear with us as we grow.
This course looks absolutely amazing
It is, stunning and replayable. I'm glad you enjoyed watching the review! Its definitely worth the stop if you head that way, and worth planning a trip for!
Beautiful course. Merry Christmas Hunter!
Thanks for the video Hunter. Enjoy your holidays!
You as well, I'm glad you enjoyed this one!
Merry Christmas Hunter! Cheers🎉
Merry Christmas to you as well!
Love the birdie joke and look into the camera. Keep up the good work and glad you got the Kotuku back.
Thanks! I love to hear it! If I can make people laugh that is gold.
Hole 18 is just demented. I like it. 🙂 Great looking course.
Its terrifying lol
I always think of Alabama famous for Matty O. Thanks for making it known for even more, love Ace Run pros coverage of last tourney too.
The trace line on the put on 14 killed me😅
It deserved one haha!
Agree with you about courses. I can have just as much fun playing a course that averages between 250-300 as I can at a course that averages 400-500.
Nice to see you, I haven't seen you comment in awhile! I enjoy any disc golf hole that I'm stepping up to the tee on!
Big giant my guy. A short course is like another day of just same tosses
It can easily feel that way on a short course! If it lacks shot shape options on each hole, its just not that exciting.
@tossingplastic 🛸👽🖖
Marry Christmas that 18th looks so sweet down hill, will definitely need to look it up when the whole course is green
There is a point late winter into early spring when the different grass seed planted around many of the more open landing areas and greens ends up popping green well before the fairways and as the seasons change and the green in the trees start to pop and the wysteria on hole 15 blooms, it's pretty stunning, especially right as the sun is going down to be teeing off and playing hole 15. giving just enough time to enjoy the rest of the course and get to the car before dark.
Come see us sometime.
Its definitely a fun hole to end a round on!
So couple thoughts on what you said from someone who has been playing 30+ years.
Courses back in the day were designed way shorter & technical due to the constraints of the disc tech at the time. With the plastic tech & players learning proper throwing techniques right off the bat the sport has changed allot. When I started there was no youtube, you figured it out on your own. Those courses that are being neglected are usually the short par 3 style courses that present little to no challenge for the newer generation.
The thing I wish people would get is that those short par 3 courses are what brings new players into the game. Locally we have a very short par 3 woods course that is our most popular (usually with newer players & older guys), in a close 2nd is a 10,000ft beast of a course that allot of the younger & longer throwers prefer.
Not many new players are going to want to start out on a monster par 4 style layout & not get frustrated very quickly. Those local par 3's, short wooded courses are where 90% of us learned the game.
Have a Merry Christmas!🎀
Merry Christmas to you as well! That point is fair, short older courses can draw in newer players. They have their place for sure as long as they are maintained!
This looks like an awesome course!
It is as amazing as it looks!
I love this course, I don't have the distance for most of the long drives, but the views make it for me
How can you be mad at your throw when the view is taking all of your attention? It's an experience worth making a trip for!
@tossingplastic can't agree more!
For your hole 9 breakdown you raise some good points. For me I would love some more well designed longer courses. I would love to try and actually play golf with some more par 4 and 5 holes. the only issue is not everyone can throw 400+ including myself so par is a bit arbitrary at that point (and so, in a way is my point.) I would love for the discgolf world to open up more in the course maintenance scene and to have things like fairs where groups get together and manicure and even redesign courses. It is probably happening but it feels like it doesn't happen enough. I am thinking of courses like the Beast with all that autumn olive and lines that just feel lost to overgrowth, and tee pads that are super dated.
The Beast in Ludington? I hear you on the maintenance and upkeep - seems a waste to not give the current courses we have the attention needed to make them the best they can each be! It's always sad to arrive at a new course and see it neglected. I'm glad you enjoyed the hole nine break, I put a lot of thought into each of them!
You wanna be quiet.. you pull out a megaphone 📣😂
Niceee .. yeah my eyes when with your hand indeed 😂
Merry Christmas hunter 🎁🥏
@user-dz6tx8tc1w you as well brother!
I don't 😂 why I'm still standing here ..I can't see it 🤣
@@user-dz6tx8tc1w it was a weird thought I had after the throw haha
@@tossingplastic 😁
If you make it to Louisiana, make sure to check out the bucket course in Monroe!
I don't have pans to get there anytime soon but I would love to one day and I will definitely check it out!
I would love to play that course!
I heard, somewhere that the more popular courses tend to be the short par 3 courses. They’re great for beginners and recreational players. Most designers should focus on them as they can. Of course, great topography can change things. Maple Hill has multiple options.
In Minnesota there is starting to be some demand shortage between all the high level courses like Blue Ribbon Pines, The Preserve and more that is perhaps made worse by the long winters. The Maintanance costs for courses are not going down, and while there are more players than ever, the growth rate 2023-2024 slowed from it’s prior growth during 2020-2022. I know this because many big courses are offering steep discounts for early joiners and new members, because cash is needed for upkeep and basic staffing.
Also, I mostly like to play smaller more technical courses because I am a beginner and my arm is sore with longer courses, those are more occasional.
You mean your van down there 😂😂😂😂😂 ☠️
@@user-dz6tx8tc1w haha poor Greta!
@tossingplastic 😄
Seasons Greetings Hunter. Since you’re back down south again I wanted to follow up about a course I recommended to you
a while back-Live Oaks in Sumter, SC. Upon further review I think it may be one you want to skip. The course is alright, but not great. Plus, I’m not sure if Sumter is a good destination for a van lifer such as yourself. Sorry that this is a long message, but I just wanted to redact my statement about “Whimsical” Live Oaks.
Thanks, and safe travels
You know, I am kind of looping back that way and I am beyond appreciative about this update!
Holy hell 🤘😈 roll back savings
Craig’s bath is a discers nightmare lol
At least Craig shed a few layers of dirt/stink. (Sometimes finding the positive is like looking for a disc in tall grass.)
@@mdfrank57😂
Tall grass, that’s a great metaphor!
Craig takes all the positivity he can get.
It's gone 😂. I'd try too
Impressive foot putt!
Should have just gone back up to 9 tee and played it how it was supposed to be played and either keep the footage from paying it wrong or delete it. Would have been nice to see how the hole is supposed to be played. Great video!
@mriforgiate I definitely could have but I like to just keep the play through authentic! Also helps the course designers address where there may be some confusion! Glad you enjoyed it!
@@tossingplasticThat's a hell of a walk back up 😅
You should be invited to, The Putting Game.
I'm not familiar with it, what is that?
Hunter Merry Christmas 🎄 If you are going west on I -10 ✅ check out New Orleans City Park
Merry Christmas to you, too! I will keep that in mind, Thank you for the recommendation. What do you love about it?
Ohhh nooo 😅. Rhyno saved the day
I am not a fan of long courses. Would love to have you come to Bainbridge GA and play Bainbridge Oaks. Or come to Tallahassee and play Tom Brown
I enjoy both shorter to mid range courses are fun. But theres nothing like playing maple hill golds. So golds are fun too but not all the time.
Maple Hill is on my bucket list! Interesting to hear the golds are your pick!
How many states/countries have you played in?
Boy, that list is long. I believe it is 11 states so far. Check them all out on the Channel Playlists - they are organized by state. Only played in the United States, though I'd love to check out other countries in the future if I can!
@ awesome! I’ve played once in Scotland while there on a work trip. Got a free disc from a local there with the stamp of the local club, Inverness Disc Golf Club. Has the Loch Ness monster on it!
@757discs oh that's just to cool haha. I wish I could do something like that
Hunters in Guntersville 😅
Dig the video. Local pronunciation, gunnersvull.
I think courses might be getting too long for most players. It is ok to play long courses if teepads suit the various divisions.
When long courses are long without shot shapes, they can get boring!
I do not like these really long courses. I still want to have a working arm by time I'm 40 lol. I'm definitely not adding to the amount of birdies (pun intended) on those courses. A good course should have tight lines in the woods.
That's a true Michigan course! As long as it's not ridiculous. My favorite local course is Henderson Nature Preserve, which I made a video on! The tight lines are punishing and at the same time you don't get very mad because there's just something perfect about the fairways and every one is different.
It's really not that bad. I'm 43, played multiple rounds in a day several times there and didn't have a linguini arms after.
Yeah, well, that’s just like your uh opinion, man.
Jokes aside I do like a mix of tight lines in the woods and some more open long holes. I’m in East Tennessee, so the majority of courses are tight woods. I’m 40 and long courses don’t bother me as long as I only throw backhand.
@@henryschilling1106 it really is a great mix of east coast golf. Elevation changes, about a third of it is tighter but fair woods lines. If it's open there's a hazard or a guarded green. If it's a long hole, they typically require shot shaping.
The uphill climbs aren't typically slogs and the downhill throws are absolute payoffs both scenically and shot satisfaction.
If you're in the area it is definitely worth a visit.
Build new courses vs maintain existing properties.
This is a concern, but it is not disc golf-specific. Businesses and governments go through the same thing.
A mayor gets more press from cutting the ribbon at a new building than he gets for repairing the city water pipes.
Building something new is fun. Doing upkeep on somebody else's stuff is boring and hard.
The upkeep on decent small courses is super important for new players. Other old courses not worth saving should be pulled so the land can be reused.
I care more about a course being memorable, having memorable holes, and courses being fun rather than length or difficulty.
That being said I go back to my last thought. People rating courses wrong and/or based off of nostalgia or some type of weird virtue signally rating.
Case: played champions pointe dgc in “grooveland” (clermont) florida a few days ago. One hole summed up the whole course, and honestly it was MEH, but it was rated 91st in the world. Same day i played okeeheelee park in west palm beach florida, and it was way better (not in top 100, and a 4.3 rated compared to champions pointe 4.6).
I find it crazy how someone (for it to be a 4.6) gave champions pointe a 5 star. In what world is it even worthy of a top 1000? How bad are 20,000 other courses that champions pointe is ranked #91? I have local courses that I would rank better in savannah GA.
Keep up the good work on your videos, appreciate getting to see someone play them rather than just relying Udisc ratings.
I'm with you - there are many more aspects that make a course incredible and ratings often don't reflect what a course really is. That's why I started the Channel! It's great to hear you like seeing the course reviews and play through for each of them. I have a lot of playlists that go state-by-state if you are curious about more based on location!
Champions Point is a nice course. For those who don't know it the defining feature is the number of Live Oak trees. I can understand someone from Savannah not being impressed at all but it's a game saver to play in the shade all summer long. It's too far from the coast to get a cool sea breeze every afternoon so it's great to have a shaded course that you can give your discs a full send. It is also a course that is so long that I'm not as tempted to take extra shots off of every tee and a birdie/par is earned. While it's not my favorite course I do look forward to playing it.
@@mdfrank57 thats cool lots of oaks, and? Than what? I agree it’s nice having a course almost fully shaded, but that does not make a great course. The course is fine, good, not great. Literally one hole on the course sums up the whole entire experience. If i take you to multiple courses by me you will remember more than “lots of oaks” or “lots of pine trees and shade” your going to remember the 300+ ft shot across the lake. The whole off the slightly elevated tee pad running along side the lake with the cake/pyramid landing zone with a basket on top, or the shot across a road and down into the pines. Not just pine trees and shade, that would be my local 9 hole in gsu, thats fine but I would NEVER call great or put in the top 100.
@@Bigboy-d1e Your description of Champions Point would put it in the bottom 100. I think it has an upside. 🙃
@ it is a good park home course, not worth traveling for.