I've just stumbled across your channel and would like to say thank you. I am a bike mechanic and it has often puzzled me why I could never cure some BB creaks. I assumed it must be an issue with the engineering but I never had enough engineering knowledge to say with certainty that that was the cause. One that sticks in my mind was a 'high end' Boardman. No matter what I tried I could never fully eliminate the creak, at least I now know that it wasn't something that I was doing wrong, so thank you for that.
Could you make a graph or PowerPoint to show us the bike brands you would recommend/not recommend for overall quality. I would trust your judgement over many other bike "reviewers" thanks!
@@charleskaneb6629 Or a Hongfu/Dengfu Bike, considering its allready much bether, than the Cervolo/Cannondale Shit and only costing ~1/4 of a Look/Time frame
Hambini, I've been riding a Boardman Team Carbon for a lot of years now and I always had that creak at the bracket. I got the bearings exchanged, but the creak remained, so I thought it was something else and kinda left it, since it was just an annoyance. Today you solved the mystery for me! Thank you!
My Cannondale Six creaked terribly. It took the pleasure out of my rides. I replaced it with a Praxis BB30 adapter and put on Ultegra cranks, getting rid of my FSA cranks. No more creak! Bike companies like Cannondale and Specialized spend millions of dollars creating the best bicycle for the money, only to have all their work ruined by some low quality factory going out of tolerance. I'm enjoying Hambini's videos, I hope the bike companies are watching too.
Yo Kevin I did the exact same thing - - Praxis & Ultegra - - except my bike is a 2015 CAADX 105. Wasn't pleased to spend the $$$ but man that first ride w/o creaking was like Christmas morning!
Cheap threaded square tapered bottom brackets are the way to go. for 10$, I order 3-4 of them and just replace as needed every season. Sometimes they will go more than 2 seasons without creaking or play and they are very easy to replace.
Same...I too want to know where Giant sits on this. Nt sure if luck or their good manufacturing but my 2012 Defy Advanced has never made a single peep. Hoping the same holds true for my new 2020 Defy Advanced and Revolt Advanced.
@@johnfarr5415 My brand new TCR Advanced 2 is creaking... Supplier has sent me a new BB which I am having fitted on Tuesday, but am now soooo worried. :(
Another thing; if they are messing up the BB shells like this, you can guarantee the headset bearing seats are equally out of whack, which is potentially a hell of a lot more serious than a creaking BB.
It's not the bearings themselves, it is the carbon work, where the bearings sit in the frame, namely the BB and headset. Badly molded bearing seats in the BB cause creaking. Badly molded bearing seats in the headset result in constantly loosening headsets, which lead to unfixable damage to the carbon steerer which at the very best will result in you having to get a new fork, and at the very worst, will result in a catastrophic failure of the steerer and you lose your face / spine / nuts / teeth etc. And good luck trying to get any company to warranty a poorly molded bearing seat.
TDI is spot on. It's almost unheard of for a branded bearing to be made out of spec, their processes are so slick they churn them out for fun. If you buy a fake bearing or a far eastern no name, it's a different story. For the bike frames, they made them out of some metallic compound for over a 100 years and have started to move to carbon in recent times, the carbon technology and probably quality control of look and time is clearly superior. But to the customer they are paying for something they cannot see and it's more difficult to justify the cost as neither Look or Time are cheap.
Your videos are brilliant. Had a CAAD 10 throughout University, took it to multiple bikeshops, none could get rid of the creak for more than a week or two.
Great video as always! I have a Specialized Roubaix and the BB creaks a bit when I pedal hard on a steep hill, especially out of the saddle. But I got the Wakos brake protector from TDI so I'm not worried.
I supply bottom brackets to a number of OEMs, they don't like to admit it and I don't shout about it but they use them for warranty claims. A large number of those frames ended up at my local bike shop to have the bottom brackets fitted. Additionally the bike shop let me measure the frames for new customers to prevent problems further down the line.
Im a mfg process engineer and this kind of quality control is what i deal with all day. Ive done countless repeatability and reliability testing on parts mfg and machine tolerances. Appreciate the engineering statistics type analysis done here. Good stuff! Just liked and subscribed! Keep up the good work!
It quite interesting how Hambini evolved thru the years. On early videos he gives somewhat quantitative/qualitative analysis of manufacturing tolerances in the bikes observed. Now his tables are in the range between the leak and dogs bollocks :)
Hambini, thanks for putting me on this. This is really quite surprising, but not unexpected. What’s telling to me is how low the tolerances are in the Big Brands that charge premium and also use Sub-Contract Manufacturing.
I bought a brand new Cannondale CAAD13 around 8 weeks ago. After a week of ownership, I started to get BB creak from the bearings when climbing. The CAAD13 replaced a previous CAAD8 which is also a BB30 frame. I've replaced the bearings multiple times on on that frame in it's lifetime and sometimes I had creak, sometimes not, depending on the bearings used. There's plenty of real-world examples to back-up the results of your testing
Good video. Do you have any thoughts on Giant? They also own their own factorys. Also what was your sample size for the difference frames manufacturers? I take it they also weren't from the same batch either.
Very interesting. Got a Trek Madone (bought 2013) which develops a steady tick several miles into a ride then gets louder and more persistent. It's a PF30 BB. Notice that Trek have now gone over to threaded BBs for the new Domane. Never had any trouble with the old square taper BBs.
Thats a pedal, unscrew your pedals and grease the crap out of the threads then tighten them in well, remember that the threads are opposite on to each-other. But yeah, its probably your pedal and all you need is some bicycle grease and a pedal wrench to fix it.
@@Anybloke Wow, well thats not good, every time someone showed me the bike with a creak they thought was BB it was something else, generally dry or lose pedals, but, you might have the actual BB problem, good luck figuring it out.
I had been lusting after a Canyon or Boardman frame for a value purpose. I'm happy to find out that it is time to redirect. Best Wishes and Many Blessings.
Ah damn, i owe a cannondale.... Question: i obviously got a bb30 on that cannondale, but with adapters for a Shimano crank. I just noticed the non drive adapter runs remarkably smoother then the drive side. Could that have something to do with the misalignments you measured?
The Illegal Immigrant: If the design calls for a press fit of a certain amount, that difference at the end of the tolerance could mean NO press fit or not enough. Forces exerted and wear may loosen the system ==> creaking, etc. Also, there may be a stack-up leading to bearings being too loose or, more likely, too tight running hot with higher friction.
Great stuff. My 2014 trek fuel ex 7 29er flex so much the left BB bearing wears out in few months, It's actually so bad the chainstay touches the 2.3 tyre. It's a real shame the that a lot of manufacturers/brands don't do the job properly. I shared you videos, they are very informative.
@@lukkesconsulting Are you sure the CAAD10 frame is steel? I only ask as CAAD has always stood for "Cannondale Advanced Aluminum Design" and a quick Google seems to point at Aluminum. Also, CAAD10 frames use Cannondale's famously creaky press-fit, non-threaded, BB30 bottom bracket which is of the variety not recommended by Jay Tee.
CNC machining can also produce a very tight tolerance, but you need to use a tool for the final cut which have a adjustment screw and one single tool edge and the operator must measure the hole at an ongoing basis, when tool is worn then take out the worn tool edge and turn it, screw the tool insert back and take a measurement cut, adjust it accordingly and start the machine again. I know this in detail since I was a CNC operator at Volvo in the late 80ies, have made thousands of H8 tolerance holes, appr +-0,03 mm in the diameter range we worked. No problems to manufacture holes +-0,01 mm and completely in line.
I own a 2005 Japanese made frame, the bike weighs 9 kgs and I don't know what is BB creak. Bought it for 200 dollars second hand better than multi thousansand dollars bike. This video very insightful. Thought it's just the bearings that needed attention to detail but poorly constructed bottom bracket results in parrarell and angular misalignment.
Awesome video! Now I knoe why my Boardman frame creak. But mine creak started when I almost seazed one cheap FSA bearing on one side, then I changed to good ceramic bearings. Idk if that was the cause of creating higher tolerance or maybe just frame BB tolerances, because many Boardman people get those creaks.
@Will Roberts Actually, as little as six results with appropriate standard deviations/variation can yield a statistically significant result at conventional p-values.
Hello Hambini. Great detailed video, thank you. In your video you mentioned dengfu chinese carbon frame manafucturer and as chart shows it is not bad at all. Probably it's because it's their own production line and control. But what can you say about other parametrs of their frames besides you mentioned in the video: geometry, stiffnes, reliability? Whould you recommend them to buy? Thank you.
Hi, the other parameters would require me to ride the frame. To be honest, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a major brand and an OEM brand if you took the badges off. The Quality control on brand leading frames has always thought to have been superior but it simply is not the case. I might see if there is a smashed up carbon frame on ebay so I can take one apart.
@@Hambini theres a guy in australia that repairs crashed frames and if they are too far gone he cuts them in half and talks about the carbon quality and issues. Hes on youtube.
Do you have any updates regarding this data tied to the brands? Is Look still doing really good stuff, have the others cought up or is it about the same in your opinion?
Can a bicycle frame, specifically the bottom bracket openings, be blue printed? Is it at all possible to build up or re-machine these openings to some datum (where would that be anyway?). I used to work for a pro motorbike race team. Our motors were 'blueprinted' versions of production engines. In that world there are so many parts it is too costly for amateurs. But with bicycles, there is just one opening. Maybe that would add some cost to mid level bikes but not relegate everyone who doesn't want power losses or creak to only a few high end bike choices. I haven't seen all your videos, but it looks like in some cases you compensate for the frame problems with a custom BB shell. What about going the other way, fixing the frame?
Would love to see where Yoeleo road bikes fall in the spectrum of bottom bracket frame performance. Any chance of an update to this video, Mr. Hambini?
How many frames of each manufacturer have you measured? Are your error bars based on multiple measurements on one bike frame or more than 1? Or are your error bars based on the precision of your micrometer? Isn’t it possible that the Boardman frame was exceptionally out of round? On the other hand, isn’t it possible that the Time frame was an exceptionally good one? You should indicate the number of frames (N) on your graphs that you measured if you measured more than 1.
I was reluctant to get a bike with push fit BB, but I needn't have worried! The Shimano push fit unit in my Rose carbon road bike has done almost 20,000 miles with no creaks or signs of wear! My previous bike had BSA BB (treaded aluminium sleeve bonded into carbon frame) which went through 3 FSA units in less than 15,000 miles! The FSA units were crap though, especially the procedure for fitting them with the cranks. When the last one failed, I was struggling to get a replacement and FSA themselves recommended a suitable replacement from their catalogue which turned out to be completely inappropriate!
I have bought a Silverback Siablo cf gravel bike and after 3 months statt experiencing a cracking sound only on the left pedal. Is this the bottom bracket? And is the BB SF 30 good?
Just come across your channel after I uploaded my vid about my Specialized BB creak. Really interesting to understand what you are paying for when you buy a Look bike over the other household names... seems I’ve made 2 bad choices, initially buying the Specialized which creaks and just picked up a Cannondale😂🙄 Will check your website out to see if you can help me. Thanks🤙
I have a 2013 Lefty Carbon 2. All I have are 2 bearings that press into the BB shell. No sleeve, no cups, no shims, nothing else. Going into season 8. I changed the bearings out about 4 years ago. 2nd set of bearings. I pressed them in with a little lithium grease. Do a lot of muddy, wet riding. Have never had any creak or any other issues. Was I just lucky? I have never seen this BB on YT. It's a SRAM crank.
Should my take on this for Specialilzed owners be that the range is fairly tight and ideal except for the outliers above 41.98mm? (Parallel alignment is scary but they're all scary in that group.) Is this something I could take to the shop owner when looking at a new frame--a micrometer to make sure mine isn't a dud? Anecdotally my Specialized Tarmac SL2 has only had the faintest of creak in the most demanding situations, 20% grade 200-lb body weight. Other than that I've had no problems. It looks like Specialized is about as good as one can get with a manufacturer that subcontracts. After seeing this, however, I am going to take a serious look at Look and spend some time with Time. I also wonder what frames these samples were taken from since Specialized has quite the range of price levels and I'd assume they'd sell the best frames only in their higher categories.
Press fit creaking definitely seems to be very manufacturer dependent as some (Felt and Giant) seem to do much better. This data also matches what I've seen. Whenever I hear a BB creaking on a group ride, it's almost always a Trek BB90 or a Cannondale BB30/PF30. Specialized OSBB (BB30 or PF30) seems to be a bit better. One note: I don't think BB creaking problems are as common as the internet would lead you to believe. I'm sure even with Cannondale, the vast majority of frames are fine.
I must have been very lucky with my caad12 then. BTW when/if it starts creaking I'll get a Hambini BB Orange edition D: BTW2 Is there any chance you could manufacture the Cannondale KT012/x tool for me, at non-eye-bleeding price???
I put a Wheels Manufacturing BB into my Cannondale Super Six Evo 3 years ago. I have done many thousands of Kms in all weather since then and not a single sound has come from that BB in that time. My advice to anyone with a BB30 is get a WF BB and use marine grease liberally when installing. I also use thread tape on the threads when I fitted it.
What was the sample size for the frames? Super helpful, although I wish you would have done trek, which is notoriously bad (about to send mine back to trek to get the bb rebuilt and will probably sell it soon thereafter).
minimum 12 of each, On Cannondale it was 34, on Boardman it was 48. Unfortunately my local bike shop is not a trek supplier otherwise I would have added them
Great analysis My Cannondale has creaked from day one and it is always the bottom bracket! If I bought a bb30 converter from you could I put Shimano cranks/ chainset on it?
Hi, yes it should work but you need to make sure you have nothing in the bottom bracket area to get in the way. If you watch the install video, it will be more clear.
This was good. I do have a question. You showed precision differences. But what about accuracy. For example if I take the center of your range, 41.97, Cervelo is centered on it and the more precise manufacturers are further away from it. So while they are more similar to each other, they are further form what you want. Then the NTN bearing is relatively far away from what you stated as ideal. Although the other measure are very clear.
Hi, the NTN Bearing is designed to be an interference fit so it should be bigger than the hole it goes into. Manufacturers have a range they work to, they might consider 41.98 is more suitable than 41.97 but provided it's in the range, it's perfectly acceptable. Hambini
Yep fixed. Modern canyons tend to have PF86 (Shimano) bottom brackets, I think they are made by Giant so I'd expect manufacturing tolerances to be reasonable.
Can be creaking temporary? I have a bike with hollow tech cranks and threaded bb. After a rainy/ muddy ride, the bb creaks, but after I wash the bike, the creak is gone and works fine. Is that normal?
Wow, owned one hongfu frame (BB86) and never had a creak. But surprised to know how good they have done. BTW, is there any data about Giant and Canyon?
@@Hambini www.hambini.com/blog/post/bottom-bracket-pressfit-and-creaking-an-engineering-opinion/ If I'm reading it correctly, Giant doesn't seem to be too bad. I've have had 3 giants TCRs in the last 4 years, all replaced due to crashes in races and have never had any creaks or had to change the bearings out. Yes, I'm still running the same bearings after 4 years and they are butter smooth! Maybe just lucky with frames?
FWIW, I have two 2011 Scott Addict R1's, with press-fit BB86. Zero creaking or noise, or problems of any kind in about 60K miles of riding. So, can it be done? Yep.
Got a CAAD12 and it had no creak, but then I got a pioneer power meter with a BB30 adapter and the creaking started and never went away. The shop reinstalled the adapter and it stopped creaking for about 5 minutes. I do not know what kind of adapter they put in but my current plan is to get a new adapter and have a different shop install. What adapter would people recommend?
Hambini, please, have you measured Salsa's bottom bracket tolerances? In particular, the Salsa Warbird Carbon 2019 models'? And Norco, i.e., the Norco Search XR Carbon's? Would you be interested to do so? Thank you.
Question regarding your saddle: do you have it leveled straight? I've got an S3 with those dual saddle position with a selle smp saddle thats also pushed forward.
How would the box and whiskers look for a threaded bb? Much tighter spread in guessing? Have you seen colnago's TF82.5? Wondering if it's worth consideration as a non-creaker?!
Threaded has a huge advantage because it places the bearings 90mm apart, by doing that, any angular differences or parallel misalignment is greatly reduced because of pure geometry. PF30 and BB30 in contrast are narrow at 68mm so any misalignment is much worse.
Hi really enjoy your blogs. Question I have a pair of Mavic Aksium ,would changing the bearings in the hub be a really good upgrade or just leave as is. asI am on a tight budget
Were these measurements all for carbon frames? Wouldn't it be easier to manufacture aluminum to tighter tolerances? I'm just curious because Cannondale is known for their aluminum frames and I'm looking to buy a CAAD12. Keep up the good work! Really enjoying the content!
Ace Mark Lao my caad 12 started creaking loudly. All I did was change the chain. I wax my chain before every ride and it made no difference. But my caad 12 is now silent.
I know this is an old thread now, but you're the only one doing this so I figured I'd ask on the off chance. It's just didn't seem to be too clear from your answer.. I wondered if you have indeed tested the C'dale CAAD frames the same manner? I mean it's not just relevant to road bikes, as there are a lot of MTB'ers that ride alu frames. I'd just be rather interested to know the results, and I don't think I'd be the only one.. I know you mentioned carbon frames with alu inserts, but surely this cannot be said to be the same thing? Ok so maybe you'd consider it to be rehashing old ground to a certain extent, but seeing some testing done, or at least 'speaking to' aluminium frame BB tolerances for different manufacturers, I feel would be genuinely relevant for many people. Being both a roadie and an MTB'er (which I guess makes me a 'Bi-cyclist'?), I know roadies can get a little.. er.. infatuated with the idea that carbon is the only frame material ;) But as mentioned, alu is still extremely popular for MTB frames, more so than for road frames even with the recent mild resurgence of higher end road alu frames. And many people will be looking to buy alu frames this year with BB30 BB's. - I mean what you do here is a genuine consumer service! :) I know the conclusion seems to be that C'dale tolerance accuracy generally isn't very high, but with alu being easier to work with, and with the processes being rather different, how could I know that same conclusions necessarily follow? I can't help thinking that to draw the same conclusion without the evidence would be rather presumptuous? Or am I just completely wrong? (which is fine if true btw, just genuinely interested). Sorry for the 'wall'. Thank you sir, and peace. (And great vids by the way! Really good stuff. Have only just found them. Subbed within 5 mins of watching!) :)
Hmm!? That's weird! I have a 2012 supersix evo himod. I have put in 13,000 miles on the bike and never had a creaking noise on the bottom bracket. Still have the original bearing on them.
@RollinRat Yes it was around. I attended APT programming courses at Cranfield Polytech at that time. I believe we called it just NC then. True the programs were on paper tape; they had to be because microprocessors as we know them now didn't exist. We were using IBM 360 computers to produce the tapes. C.A.Parsons was using NC to machine turbine blades. And tool wear was a big issue. At the conference I mentioned I remember one presenter saying they found measuring tool wear difficult because the wear varied with how often they measured it!
Is this primarily a challenge in carbon, that seem to be all the frames you tend to hit here, of course you pay a premium for that frame in the first place. And given you comment on "builds their own" would say Trek and others that like Time/Look build their own have an advantage (if they follow solid engineering) -- the bit on relaxation is a key.
Does Hambini have a BB solution, which would allow me to fit a SRAM GXP (AKA Truvitiv) chain-set in a Giant Trinity frame? This would replace the Shimano press-fit BB72 BB that is specified for the frame.
Dear Hambini, I believe one aspect in your video that allows those manufacturers still staying dry and safe, is that the viewers are not aware of the power of your box and whiskers plots. People may not be aware, that all these plots were results of A LOT OF MEASUREMENTS FROM MANY BIKES! THOSE BRANDED BIKES INCLUDED! The plot, if put in laymen's term, can simply means a group of for riders with the same bike brand, may have two of them have their bikes' geometry around the both extreme ends. Isn't this true?
I don't quite understand the methodology? Wouldn't the differences in models or years change significantly over manufactures? Did you find this in your results at all? I have a 10 year old carbon bike and have to imagine technology and engineering has changed significantly since then. btw...i have no issue with BB creak.
It's really a measure of quality control. There is nothing to say that Look don't make a bunch of rubbish out of tolerance frames, it's just none of them see the consumer. The other way to think about it is that Look has a manufacturing process that is superior to everybody elses that allows them to achieve such a good fit. The manufacturing process for carbon has not changed in the past 20 years, it's still epoxy resin in a pressurized mould. The intricacies have changed and the process has become cheaper but this is probably at the detriment to the consumer. I don't have enough of a sample spread to be able to categorically say that one year had a worse bunch of frames to another year. All I can say is that Cannondale and boardman were generally poor, Look and Time were generally very good. This is slighly anecdotal but the interior finish (the bit you can't see) on the Look and time frames was much better than all of the others.
How do you justify normalizing bores from different standards with different tolerances? BB30 has a tolerance of 0 to +0.02mm. PF30 has a tolerance of 0 to -0.05mm.
m.pinkbike.com/news/cane-creek-hellbender-neo-bottom-bracket-eurobike-2019.html does this seem realistic? or does it still depend on the manufacturing tollerences of the frame etc?
Anecdotal, but maybe of help; the majority of people who contact me wanting to buy Wakos Brake Protector to fix creaking BBs, have Cannondales.
Pinned, as I think it's valuable information for any buyers out there!
Hambini Performance Engineering Cheers mate :) as you said, not all Cannondale do this but it just ain't worth the risk.
Yep, that's why I'm here. And I'm really tired of mechanics who tell me they've never heard of the Cannondale Click.
I have a CAAD10 BB30 with creaking noise. Once worn out I will replace bearings with Praxxis adapter and Shimano crankset
T Wallace The guy in the shop caressing your bike, with a name tag says Mechanic, is definitely a Sales Guy.😜
Got it, Cannondale owners should buy lots of cheap Chinese bearing until they get a set that match their frame perfectly.
That's one way to do it, yeah. Tolerance roulette 😁
no, just legit NTN and some Wacosu bureki purotekuta!
I've just stumbled across your channel and would like to say thank you. I am a bike mechanic and it has often puzzled me why I could never cure some BB creaks. I assumed it must be an issue with the engineering but I never had enough engineering knowledge to say with certainty that that was the cause. One that sticks in my mind was a 'high end' Boardman. No matter what I tried I could never fully eliminate the creak, at least I now know that it wasn't something that I was doing wrong, so thank you for that.
Hi, we got a memo to stop greasing bb30 shells, once we used bearing retaining compound from loctite, it cures almost 100% of bikes.
Which bikes do you recommend?
The start of every Hambini video startles my dog.
Could you make a graph or PowerPoint to show us the bike brands you would recommend/not recommend for overall quality. I would trust your judgement over many other bike "reviewers" thanks!
He did - the graphs showing diameter, angular offset, and parallel offset are clear. You want a Look or a Time.
@@charleskaneb6629 Or a Hongfu/Dengfu Bike, considering its allready much bether, than the Cervolo/Cannondale Shit and only costing ~1/4 of a Look/Time frame
Would you consider doing a review of the overall quality of the Dengfu/hongfu frames? (more than just the BB)
This is amazing! @hambini, please make a huge database with all your findings. It would be a buyers bible!
Hambini, I've been riding a Boardman Team Carbon for a lot of years now and I always had that creak at the bracket. I got the bearings exchanged, but the creak remained, so I thought it was something else and kinda left it, since it was just an annoyance. Today you solved the mystery for me! Thank you!
I would love to see a Chris King Precision Components bearing on your box and whisker plot
Bloody excellent video mate, as someone that will be looking to spend a little more money shortly on a better bike, this is invaluable...Look it is
Holy shit, Hambini was so fucking MELLOW in 2017 :D
My Cannondale Six creaked terribly. It took the pleasure out of my rides. I replaced it with a Praxis BB30 adapter and put on Ultegra cranks, getting rid of my FSA cranks. No more creak! Bike companies like Cannondale and Specialized spend millions of dollars creating the best bicycle for the money, only to have all their work ruined by some low quality factory going out of tolerance. I'm enjoying Hambini's videos, I hope the bike companies are watching too.
Yo Kevin I did the exact same thing - - Praxis & Ultegra - - except my bike is a 2015 CAADX 105. Wasn't pleased to spend the $$$ but man that first ride w/o creaking was like Christmas morning!
Cheap threaded square tapered bottom brackets are the way to go. for 10$, I order 3-4 of them and just replace as needed every season. Sometimes they will go more than 2 seasons without creaking or play and they are very easy to replace.
So, am I correct in assuming that this applies specifically to carbon frames, or are there simililar problems with alloy frames?
My specialized aluminum frame creaks
@@leecrotty658 my hole bike creeks, but that's because i am 18 stone, it's a good job it cant talk.
I’m also curious how Giants would stack up, since they own their factory.
Same...I too want to know where Giant sits on this. Nt sure if luck or their good manufacturing but my 2012 Defy Advanced has never made a single peep. Hoping the same holds true for my new 2020 Defy Advanced and Revolt Advanced.
@@johnfarr5415 My brand new TCR Advanced 2 is creaking... Supplier has sent me a new BB which I am having fitted on Tuesday, but am now soooo worried. :(
Juan Cisneros well they do own several factories, but it takes real engineers to figure these numbers out.
Guys, my Giant BB had been fitted badly. New one is silent as the night.
My Colnago CX Zero Alu was built by Giant. I hope it's built properly.
Another thing; if they are messing up the BB shells like this, you can guarantee the headset bearing seats are equally out of whack, which is potentially a hell of a lot more serious than a creaking BB.
It's not the bearings themselves, it is the carbon work, where the bearings sit in the frame, namely the BB and headset.
Badly molded bearing seats in the BB cause creaking. Badly molded bearing seats in the headset result in constantly loosening headsets, which lead to unfixable damage to the carbon steerer which at the very best will result in you having to get a new fork, and at the very worst, will result in a catastrophic failure of the steerer and you lose your face / spine / nuts / teeth etc.
And good luck trying to get any company to warranty a poorly molded bearing seat.
TDI is spot on. It's almost unheard of for a branded bearing to be made out of spec, their processes are so slick they churn them out for fun. If you buy a fake bearing or a far eastern no name, it's a different story.
For the bike frames, they made them out of some metallic compound for over a 100 years and have started to move to carbon in recent times, the carbon technology and probably quality control of look and time is clearly superior. But to the customer they are paying for something they cannot see and it's more difficult to justify the cost as neither Look or Time are cheap.
Dude, i'm so happy to find your channel. Keep a good work, brother!
Your videos are brilliant.
Had a CAAD 10 throughout University, took it to multiple bikeshops, none could get rid of the creak for more than a week or two.
Great video as always! I have a Specialized Roubaix and the BB creaks a bit when I pedal hard on a steep hill, especially out of the saddle. But I got the Wakos brake protector from TDI so I'm not worried.
That was great. Now I don't feel so bad spending what I did for my LOOK 695.
How did you get your hands on all those frames?
I supply bottom brackets to a number of OEMs, they don't like to admit it and I don't shout about it but they use them for warranty claims. A large number of those frames ended up at my local bike shop to have the bottom brackets fitted. Additionally the bike shop let me measure the frames for new customers to prevent problems further down the line.
Time frames are the best in the business. Exquisite quality and attention to detail.
Im a mfg process engineer and this kind of quality control is what i deal with all day. Ive done countless repeatability and reliability testing on parts mfg and machine tolerances. Appreciate the engineering statistics type analysis done here. Good stuff! Just liked and subscribed! Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the feedback.
We definitely needed someone to point/call them on their poor manufacturing.. Great video
It quite interesting how Hambini evolved thru the years. On early videos he gives somewhat quantitative/qualitative analysis of manufacturing tolerances in the bikes observed. Now his tables are in the range between the leak and dogs bollocks :)
Amazing .. I had a squeaky cannondale ,, kind of got fixed but starting to squeak again... I need this
Hambini, thanks for putting me on this. This is really quite surprising, but not unexpected. What’s telling to me is how low the tolerances are in the Big Brands that charge premium and also use Sub-Contract Manufacturing.
You are right on the money.
Made this Look owner's day. 🙂
I bought a brand new Cannondale CAAD13 around 8 weeks ago. After a week of ownership, I started to get BB creak from the bearings when climbing. The CAAD13 replaced a previous CAAD8 which is also a BB30 frame. I've replaced the bearings multiple times on on that frame in it's lifetime and sometimes I had creak, sometimes not, depending on the bearings used. There's plenty of real-world examples to back-up the results of your testing
I want that grey Hambini soft shell jacket you're wearing!
Good video. Do you have any thoughts on Giant? They also own their own factorys. Also what was your sample size for the difference frames manufacturers? I take it they also weren't from the same batch either.
Very interesting. Got a Trek Madone (bought 2013) which develops a steady tick several miles into a ride then gets louder and more persistent. It's a PF30 BB. Notice that Trek have now gone over to threaded BBs for the new Domane. Never had any trouble with the old square taper BBs.
Thats a pedal, unscrew your pedals and grease the crap out of the threads then tighten them in well, remember that the threads are opposite on to each-other. But yeah, its probably your pedal and all you need is some bicycle grease and a pedal wrench to fix it.
@@BigChiefWiggles Replaced pedals. Cleaned all threads. Applied fresh grease. Still clicking. Particularly bad when climbing - out of the saddle.
@@Anybloke Wow, well thats not good, every time someone showed me the bike with a creak they thought was BB it was something else, generally dry or lose pedals, but, you might have the actual BB problem, good luck figuring it out.
I had been lusting after a Canyon or Boardman frame for a value purpose. I'm happy to find out that it is time to redirect. Best Wishes and Many Blessings.
Ah damn, i owe a cannondale....
Question: i obviously got a bb30 on that cannondale, but with adapters for a Shimano crank. I just noticed the non drive adapter runs remarkably smoother then the drive side. Could that have something to do with the misalignments you measured?
Can you comment on how a difference of 70 microns is the difference between a bearing falling out. It seems like such a small number.
The Illegal Immigrant: If the design calls for a press fit of a certain amount, that difference at the end of the tolerance could mean NO press fit or not enough. Forces exerted and wear may loosen the system ==> creaking, etc. Also, there may be a stack-up leading to bearings being too loose or, more likely, too tight running hot with higher friction.
Thanks for the video Hambini!
Do you have any data on BMC frames?
I do, I am planning on updating this sheet for 2019
Great stuff.
My 2014 trek fuel ex 7 29er flex so much the left BB bearing wears out in few months, It's actually so bad the chainstay touches the 2.3 tyre. It's a real shame the that a lot of manufacturers/brands don't do the job properly.
I shared you videos, they are very informative.
Thanks for the feedback.!
I knew nothing of BBs about 3 months ago when I bought my bike. I am now weeping gently in the corner as it is a Boardman with a pressfit BB.
I know how you feel! Bought an R2 in Jan, literally just took it back to the bike shop for them to take a look at the creaking BB...
Actually, if you don't want a creaky bottom bracket, buy a steel bike with a threaded bottom bracket.
The Caad10 from cannondale is a steel one and steel creaky
@@lukkesconsulting Are you sure the CAAD10 frame is steel? I only ask as CAAD has always stood for "Cannondale Advanced Aluminum Design" and a quick Google seems to point at Aluminum.
Also, CAAD10 frames use Cannondale's famously creaky press-fit, non-threaded, BB30 bottom bracket which is of the variety not recommended by Jay Tee.
And that exactly is what i got! Im a metal fan, even if it is a little heavier, it just rides better..
@@jonb77 Jon you are right, its a aluminum frame, but lot of problems with the creaky bottom :-)
Dear Hambini, have you see Merida frames (especially aluminum Sluctura frames)? How are BB tolerances in those?
CNC machining can also produce a very tight tolerance, but you need to use a tool for the final cut which have a adjustment screw and one single tool edge and the operator must measure the hole at an ongoing basis, when tool is worn then take out the worn tool edge and turn it, screw the tool insert back and take a measurement cut, adjust it accordingly and start the machine again. I know this in detail since I was a CNC operator at Volvo in the late 80ies, have made thousands of H8 tolerance holes, appr +-0,03 mm in the diameter range we worked. No problems to manufacture holes +-0,01 mm and completely in line.
Great video. Thankfully my supersix is rock solid.
true same here, just got an expensive BMC and it feels flimsy, fragile yet heavy then my way cheaper Super six evo. what a bike
I own a 2005 Japanese made frame, the bike weighs 9 kgs and I don't know what is BB creak. Bought it for 200 dollars second hand better than multi thousansand dollars bike. This video very insightful. Thought it's just the bearings that needed attention to detail but poorly constructed bottom bracket results in parrarell and angular misalignment.
Stuff that for a game of soldiers, I'm buying a LOOK!
That's all I ride.. older one with english thread and hollowtech 2 .
I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a look bike complain of creak
Awesome video! Now I knoe why my Boardman frame creak. But mine creak started when I almost seazed one cheap FSA bearing on one side, then I changed to good ceramic bearings. Idk if that was the cause of creating higher tolerance or maybe just frame BB tolerances, because many Boardman people get those creaks.
This was very interesting. You're producing great content. How many frames did you measure all in all?
Hi there, thanks for the feedback. Almost 200 frames. There were some frames that I didn't get a sample size of 12 so I excluded them.
Hambini Performance Engineering which of the Look frames did you test?
Hambini: 200!?! Thanks for the (statistically significant) effort!
Ivan - I
@Will Roberts Actually, as little as six results with appropriate standard deviations/variation can yield a statistically significant result at conventional p-values.
Hambini has fixed the bottom brackets, now can you please fix the wankel rotary engine, thank you :)
Hello Hambini. Great detailed video, thank you. In your video you mentioned dengfu chinese carbon frame manafucturer and as chart shows it is not bad at all. Probably it's because it's their own production line and control. But what can you say about other parametrs of their frames besides you mentioned in the video: geometry, stiffnes, reliability? Whould you recommend them to buy? Thank you.
Hi, the other parameters would require me to ride the frame. To be honest, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference between a major brand and an OEM brand if you took the badges off. The Quality control on brand leading frames has always thought to have been superior but it simply is not the case. I might see if there is a smashed up carbon frame on ebay so I can take one apart.
@@Hambini theres a guy in australia that repairs crashed frames and if they are too far gone he cuts them in half and talks about the carbon quality and issues. Hes on youtube.
@@Hambini Watch "Trek Emonda SL Cut Up and Review" on UA-cam
ua-cam.com/video/kJl5V_KTRzc/v-deo.html
Do you have any updates regarding this data tied to the brands? Is Look still doing really good stuff, have the others cought up or is it about the same in your opinion?
Yes I do. Time is still the best. Cervelo has gotten worse.
Can a bicycle frame, specifically the bottom bracket openings, be blue printed? Is it at all possible to build up or re-machine these openings to some datum (where would that be anyway?). I used to work for a pro motorbike race team. Our motors were 'blueprinted' versions of production engines. In that world there are so many parts it is too costly for amateurs. But with bicycles, there is just one opening. Maybe that would add some cost to mid level bikes but not relegate everyone who doesn't want power losses or creak to only a few high end bike choices. I haven't seen all your videos, but it looks like in some cases you compensate for the frame problems with a custom BB shell. What about going the other way, fixing the frame?
Love your vids keep up the good work, can u include trek and giant
Would love to see where Yoeleo road bikes fall in the spectrum of bottom bracket frame performance. Any chance of an update to this video, Mr. Hambini?
informative video. any data on treck or giant bikes? look is hard to find in my part of the rock.
I think he looks at higher end bikes.
Loving the channel Hambini! Just a question where does Trek fit into all of this? I am looking potentially at a Trek Domane SL5. Thanks!
Cameron Anderson i guess he never get the chance to measure one yet.
How many frames of each manufacturer have you measured? Are your error bars based on multiple measurements on one bike frame or more than 1? Or are your error bars based on the precision of your micrometer? Isn’t it possible that the Boardman frame was exceptionally out of round? On the other hand, isn’t it possible that the Time frame was an exceptionally good one? You should indicate the number of frames (N) on your graphs that you measured if you measured more than 1.
I was reluctant to get a bike with push fit BB, but I needn't have worried! The Shimano push fit unit in my Rose carbon road bike has done almost 20,000 miles with no creaks or signs of wear! My previous bike had BSA BB (treaded aluminium sleeve bonded into carbon frame) which went through 3 FSA units in less than 15,000 miles! The FSA units were crap though, especially the procedure for fitting them with the cranks. When the last one failed, I was struggling to get a replacement and FSA themselves recommended a suitable replacement from their catalogue which turned out to be completely inappropriate!
I have bought a Silverback Siablo cf gravel bike and after 3 months statt experiencing a cracking sound only on the left pedal. Is this the bottom bracket? And is the BB SF 30 good?
Just come across your channel after I uploaded my vid about my Specialized BB creak. Really interesting to understand what you are paying for when you buy a Look bike over the other household names... seems I’ve made 2 bad choices, initially buying the Specialized which creaks and just picked up a Cannondale😂🙄 Will check your website out to see if you can help me. Thanks🤙
Thanks for the feedback
I have a 2013 Lefty Carbon 2. All I have are 2 bearings that press into the BB shell. No sleeve, no cups, no shims, nothing else. Going into season 8. I changed the bearings out about 4 years ago. 2nd set of bearings. I pressed them in with a little lithium grease. Do a lot of muddy, wet riding. Have never had any creak or any other issues. Was I just lucky? I have never seen this BB on YT. It's a SRAM crank.
Should my take on this for Specialilzed owners be that the range is fairly tight and ideal except for the outliers above 41.98mm? (Parallel alignment is scary but they're all scary in that group.) Is this something I could take to the shop owner when looking at a new frame--a micrometer to make sure mine isn't a dud? Anecdotally my Specialized Tarmac SL2 has only had the faintest of creak in the most demanding situations, 20% grade 200-lb body weight. Other than that I've had no problems. It looks like Specialized is about as good as one can get with a manufacturer that subcontracts. After seeing this, however, I am going to take a serious look at Look and spend some time with Time. I also wonder what frames these samples were taken from since Specialized has quite the range of price levels and I'd assume they'd sell the best frames only in their higher categories.
Press fit creaking definitely seems to be very manufacturer dependent as some (Felt and Giant) seem to do much better. This data also matches what I've seen. Whenever I hear a BB creaking on a group ride, it's almost always a Trek BB90 or a Cannondale BB30/PF30. Specialized OSBB (BB30 or PF30) seems to be a bit better. One note: I don't think BB creaking problems are as common as the internet would lead you to believe. I'm sure even with Cannondale, the vast majority of frames are fine.
I must have been very lucky with my caad12 then. BTW when/if it starts creaking I'll get a Hambini BB Orange edition D: BTW2 Is there any chance you could manufacture the Cannondale KT012/x tool for me, at non-eye-bleeding price???
If you ping me an email I can probably make one
I put a Wheels Manufacturing BB into my Cannondale Super Six Evo 3 years ago. I have done many thousands of Kms in all weather since then and not a single sound has come from that BB in that time. My advice to anyone with a BB30 is get a WF BB and use marine grease liberally when installing. I also use thread tape on the threads when I fitted it.
What was the sample size for the frames? Super helpful, although I wish you would have done trek, which is notoriously bad (about to send mine back to trek to get the bb rebuilt and will probably sell it soon thereafter).
minimum 12 of each, On Cannondale it was 34, on Boardman it was 48. Unfortunately my local bike shop is not a trek supplier otherwise I would have added them
I have a boardman pro from 2013,I thought the bottom bracket was creaking a bit but it turned out to be my titanium saddle rails.
Great analysis
My Cannondale has creaked from day one and it is always the bottom bracket! If I bought a bb30 converter from you could I put Shimano cranks/ chainset on it?
Hi, yes it should work but you need to make sure you have nothing in the bottom bracket area to get in the way. If you watch the install video, it will be more clear.
Is Ribble Hongfu/Dengfu?
I think it might be.
The frames do look very similar.
This was good. I do have a question. You showed precision differences. But what about accuracy. For example if I take the center of your range, 41.97, Cervelo is centered on it and the more precise manufacturers are further away from it. So while they are more similar to each other, they are further form what you want. Then the NTN bearing is relatively far away from what you stated as ideal. Although the other measure are very clear.
Hi, the NTN Bearing is designed to be an interference fit so it should be bigger than the hole it goes into. Manufacturers have a range they work to, they might consider 41.98 is more suitable than 41.97 but provided it's in the range, it's perfectly acceptable. Hambini
Very interesting. You have a Cervelo, does yours creak, I'm guessing you already fixed it. Any opinion on Canyon bikes and their BB?
Yep fixed. Modern canyons tend to have PF86 (Shimano) bottom brackets, I think they are made by Giant so I'd expect manufacturing tolerances to be reasonable.
Just curious which Look models you tested?
Can be creaking temporary?
I have a bike with hollow tech cranks and threaded bb. After a rainy/ muddy ride, the bb creaks, but after I wash the bike, the creak is gone and works fine. Is that normal?
Are the Look numbers here for modern or vintage?(And is there a difference)
Wow, owned one hongfu frame (BB86) and never had a creak. But surprised to know how good they have done.
BTW, is there any data about Giant and Canyon?
I have got Giant and Canyon frame data, it's just not in a video!
@@Hambini Nice! can't wait to see a more comprehensive analysis on different manufacturers' tolerance.
BTW, could you please spoiler a little?
@@Hambini www.hambini.com/blog/post/bottom-bracket-pressfit-and-creaking-an-engineering-opinion/ If I'm reading it correctly, Giant doesn't seem to be too bad. I've have had 3 giants TCRs in the last 4 years, all replaced due to crashes in races and have never had any creaks or had to change the bearings out. Yes, I'm still running the same bearings after 4 years and they are butter smooth! Maybe just lucky with frames?
FWIW, I have two 2011 Scott Addict R1's, with press-fit BB86. Zero creaking or noise, or problems of any kind in about 60K miles of riding. So, can it be done? Yep.
Got a CAAD12 and it had no creak, but then I got a pioneer power meter with a BB30 adapter and the creaking started and never went away. The shop reinstalled the adapter and it stopped creaking for about 5 minutes. I do not know what kind of adapter they put in but my current plan is to get a new adapter and have a different shop install. What adapter would people recommend?
Hambini, please, have you measured Salsa's bottom bracket tolerances? In particular, the Salsa Warbird Carbon 2019 models'?
And Norco, i.e., the Norco Search XR Carbon's?
Would you be interested to do so?
Thank you.
Unfortunately, none of those brands are big in my local area so I would struggle. sorry Hambini
Unfortunately, none of those brands are big in my local area so I would struggle. sorry Hambini
I do desire them and regularly see one in your videos, so what is your opinion of BMC? are they 'Swiss' levels of engineering?
They are not look or time. But middle of the pack
Guess i got lucky with my boradman sls elite disc.....
Very curious about pinarello build quality
Question regarding your saddle: do you have it leveled straight?
I've got an S3 with those dual saddle position with a selle smp saddle thats also pushed forward.
I've got mine tipped ever so slightly down, it can only be 2 or 3mm down.
That’s why I ride aluminum Cannondale frames ONLY. BB on alloy frames made just from one pipe, so no tolerance problems that “plastic” frames have
Lol “pain in the back side”
So far away from “c***ish s**tbag”
Thank you for your information man
How would the box and whiskers look for a threaded bb? Much tighter spread in guessing? Have you seen colnago's TF82.5? Wondering if it's worth consideration as a non-creaker?!
Threaded has a huge advantage because it places the bearings 90mm apart, by doing that, any angular differences or parallel misalignment is greatly reduced because of pure geometry. PF30 and BB30 in contrast are narrow at 68mm so any misalignment is much worse.
Hi really enjoy your blogs.
Question I have a pair of Mavic Aksium ,would changing the bearings in the hub be a really good upgrade or just leave as is. asI am on a tight budget
Hi Neil, I would leave them as they are unless they are grinding or causing some issues.
Thanks will do
Were these measurements all for carbon frames? Wouldn't it be easier to manufacture aluminum to tighter tolerances? I'm just curious because Cannondale is known for their aluminum frames and I'm looking to buy a CAAD12. Keep up the good work! Really enjoying the content!
Some of the cannondales were carbon with an aluminium insert. They weren't good either.
My C'dale CAAD 12 2016 BB is creaking(knocking sound). watching this video Confirms what I have in mind.
Ace Mark Lao my caad 12 started creaking loudly. All I did was change the chain. I wax my chain before every ride and it made no difference. But my caad 12 is now silent.
Cannondales are notorious for creaking. My frame creaks, two of my friends' frames creak. And finally we have some data to back it up :)
I know this is an old thread now, but you're the only one doing this so I figured I'd ask on the off chance.
It's just didn't seem to be too clear from your answer.. I wondered if you have indeed tested the C'dale CAAD frames the same manner? I mean it's not just relevant to road bikes, as there are a lot of MTB'ers that ride alu frames. I'd just be rather interested to know the results, and I don't think I'd be the only one.. I know you mentioned carbon frames with alu inserts, but surely this cannot be said to be the same thing?
Ok so maybe you'd consider it to be rehashing old ground to a certain extent, but seeing some testing done, or at least 'speaking to' aluminium frame BB tolerances for different manufacturers, I feel would be genuinely relevant for many people. Being both a roadie and an MTB'er (which I guess makes me a 'Bi-cyclist'?), I know roadies can get a little.. er.. infatuated with the idea that carbon is the only frame material ;) But as mentioned, alu is still extremely popular for MTB frames, more so than for road frames even with the recent mild resurgence of higher end road alu frames. And many people will be looking to buy alu frames this year with BB30 BB's. - I mean what you do here is a genuine consumer service! :)
I know the conclusion seems to be that C'dale tolerance accuracy generally isn't very high, but with alu being easier to work with, and with the processes being rather different, how could I know that same conclusions necessarily follow? I can't help thinking that to draw the same conclusion without the evidence would be rather presumptuous? Or am I just completely wrong? (which is fine if true btw, just genuinely interested).
Sorry for the 'wall'. Thank you sir, and peace. (And great vids by the way! Really good stuff. Have only just found them. Subbed within 5 mins of watching!) :)
What BB does the 2001 Klein Quantum Race bike have??
Keep up the great work! Love your channel
Thanks for the feedback!
Hmm!? That's weird! I have a 2012 supersix evo himod. I have put in 13,000 miles on the bike and never had a creaking noise on the bottom bracket. Still have the original bearing on them.
Please measure an Stevens Super Prestige Frame with BB86 version.Curios to see where it stands
Which Cannondale frames where used? All carbon cannondale's or were some alluminum bikes like caad 10 and 12 thrown in?
A mixture of both. I don't know if you are aware but some of the carbon bikes have aluminium inserts in them.
Fifty (yes 50) years ago I attended a conference where the main topic was CNC machining and tool wear. Looks like they still haven't figured it out.
@RollinRat Yes it was around. I attended APT programming courses at Cranfield Polytech at that time. I believe we called it just NC then.
True the programs were on paper tape; they had to be because microprocessors as we know them now didn't exist. We were using IBM 360 computers to produce the tapes. C.A.Parsons was using NC to machine turbine blades. And tool wear was a big issue. At the conference I mentioned I remember one presenter saying they found measuring tool wear difficult because the wear varied with how often they measured it!
Is this primarily a challenge in carbon, that seem to be all the frames you tend to hit here, of course you pay a premium for that frame in the first place. And given you comment on "builds their own" would say Trek and others that like Time/Look build their own have an advantage (if they follow solid engineering) -- the bit on relaxation is a key.
Does Hambini have a BB solution, which would allow me to fit a SRAM GXP (AKA Truvitiv) chain-set in a Giant Trinity frame? This would replace the Shimano press-fit BB72 BB that is specified for the frame.
If the frame is not double lipped then I have a drop in replacement.
Have you ever look into Santa Cruz bikes?
Dear Hambini, I believe one aspect in your video that allows those manufacturers still staying dry and safe, is that the viewers are not aware of the power of your box and whiskers plots.
People may not be aware, that all these plots were results of A LOT OF MEASUREMENTS FROM MANY BIKES! THOSE BRANDED BIKES INCLUDED!
The plot, if put in laymen's term, can simply means a group of for riders with the same bike brand, may have two of them have their bikes' geometry around the both extreme ends.
Isn't this true?
If i want to replace the BB30A on my Cannondale Supersix with something that will actually be stiff and creak-free, what do you suggest i actually do?
Use a Shimano crank
@@Hambini Can i still use my beautiful Hollowgram one-piece crank thogh? DO you sell inserts for that?
I don't quite understand the methodology? Wouldn't the differences in models or years change significantly over manufactures? Did you find this in your results at all? I have a 10 year old carbon bike and have to imagine technology and engineering has changed significantly since then. btw...i have no issue with BB creak.
It's really a measure of quality control. There is nothing to say that Look don't make a bunch of rubbish out of tolerance frames, it's just none of them see the consumer. The other way to think about it is that Look has a manufacturing process that is superior to everybody elses that allows them to achieve such a good fit.
The manufacturing process for carbon has not changed in the past 20 years, it's still epoxy resin in a pressurized mould. The intricacies have changed and the process has become cheaper but this is probably at the detriment to the consumer.
I don't have enough of a sample spread to be able to categorically say that one year had a worse bunch of frames to another year. All I can say is that Cannondale and boardman were generally poor, Look and Time were generally very good. This is slighly anecdotal but the interior finish (the bit you can't see) on the Look and time frames was much better than all of the others.
What about Pinarello? (manufactured by Carbotec Industrial?)
How do you justify normalizing bores from different standards with different tolerances? BB30 has a tolerance of 0 to +0.02mm. PF30 has a tolerance of 0 to -0.05mm.
It's normalisation of the size and deviation not the standard itself. I'm looking for variance not whether it fits the exact 0.05mm or not.
Damn, now I REALLY want a LOOK!
I think I'd take the 695 over the 795 but they do look the shiz
+Hambini Performance Engineering I ride a 595. Hand made lugged :)
Do you have any data for Canyon bikes?
Hi! Can you say something about the BB of Colnago‘s carbon frames, as the V1-r or the V2-r?
Luzius H. Colnago uses their own bb. They are treaded in and are even more accurate than BSA.
m.pinkbike.com/news/cane-creek-hellbender-neo-bottom-bracket-eurobike-2019.html does this seem realistic? or does it still depend on the manufacturing tollerences of the frame etc?