It’s interesting how we are so "accommodating" with tolerances and quality in general when comes to a €/$10K bicycle, yet we demand much stricter tolerances on equivalent priced vehicles like motorbikes, or indeed anything else... it’s time so called "premium" bicycle manufactures get their quality up to same level as their marketing and sales. Kudos to @Hambini for keeping it real…
Maybe because of scale of production? Because I’m sure that the demand for bike parts are as high as motorbikes and cars. I’m sure that everyone needs a road use bicycle as much as they need their car.
The Hambini BB solved my BB issues. No more creaking or binding. Significantly extended lifespan compared to the individual cup BBs I had used. Great customer service. None of the previous BB's lasted for more than four months. I'd gladly buy another Hambini BB for my other bikes.
@@OptimusSatanas 1,000 miles per day or sat in the shed doing nothing. Also, you threw an insult while being unsure. Don't do that if you don't want to look stupid.
Material: Sent a sample to contacts at an undisclosed US government location in a desert and they confirmed that it is not a standard ASTM aluminium alloy. It seems to be a bespoke alloy found in certain turbine engine structures. Aerospace industry refers to it as "Hambinium."
I must commend Peak Torque for this type of review. We are usually bamboozled by buzz words from the bike industry but this is quite raw, hard facts presented. Really good, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I have a Hambini BB in my Cervelo R5 2016. I had to have a custom one as Cervelo take a rather cavalier approach to standards. Hambini got me to measure my frame and the BB went in perfectly. It’s spins like silk even after quite a few thousand miles ( certainly more than 7,000) it’s brilliant and I think it’s worth the money.
@@topher.m I absolutely love my Cervelo R5. The third R5 frame I’ve had. The first I crashed and broke so I bought a replacement. That was out of alignment and Cervelo gave me a replacement. That has been superb. Unfortunately although the BB shell is round and concentric it is undersized. Certainly makes it difficult to insert or remove an off the shelf replacement. I have found the Hambini BB solves this problem. I’ve done over 21,000miles on this frame and probably over 10,000 on the previous two. I can’t say I’m the fan of the more recent Cervelo disc bikes. I didn’t like the changes they mad to the geometry. Probably suits some people.
Many companies have issues with the press fit bottom brackets. Their manufacturing tolerances are too wide. This is why many companies have switched to t47 or back to bsa and the like. Its easier to get a quality fit by installing a piece of metal and threading it. Many bottom brackets can go 7,000 miles. Most of my bikes never got an upgrade to the bottom bracket or the cranks. Some went flying off many jumps with only a tire for suspension. Were talking old square taper stuff that everyone turns their nose up to today.
Bravo to Peak Torque for showing us the Geometric Tolerances (GD&T properly as well as his inspection setup for measuring those features (total runout). As a manufacturing/ machining person i appreciated that. Well done!
I would say you have it backwards on the machining side of things. Judging by the distribution of high and low spots on the side with the flange, considering you have more than one per revolution, this is the side that has been fixed in the lathe. The fixture that has been used caused a slight deformation while the part is turned. Deflection on the free end of a part usually causes a taper... This is just an armchair observation of course. Love what hambini is doing, even though he might be harsh at times.
I find him to be pretty coarse which left me thinking him to be a bit of a twat initially but I have since warmed to him, and realised that it's just who he is and isn't really meant maliciously.
This is also just marketing, its just the kind that appeals to you. Explaining their tolerances to justify pricing around 8x ($200) the normal BB is marketing as much as shimano mass producing a pretty good bb for $30 and sponsoring MVDP
@@janeztomazic5546 no, and while my comment didn’t make the distinction super clear, I didn’t say that. There are many ways to market. Sponsoring the fast guy and getting brand in front of eyes, and making people pick the shimano bike with whatever bb is in there, is just as much marketing as making UA-cam campaigns explaining how your BB is 10-50 microns more accurately manufactured in exchange for an 800% price increase
@@zachcalton3199 if you are talking about hambini BB, only bearings are worth 100USD and its not only microns is also the quality and stiffness, I have the BB30 one and am not sorry I bought it. I ll always take the quality of product over the "fast guy has it"
When a british person says "really really good" or "pretty damn good" that is the equivalent of any other person saying it's best in class or the best you can find etc.
I had Dura Ace, then Wheels Mfg, and now a Hambini BB in my Canyon bike. The Hambini was absolutely noticeable in making my frame a bit stiffer when pedaling at higher power. My bike also doesn't creak anymore.
Edit: maybe the video was too short for some of your Hambinites. Some more detail - This BB is by no means a feat of engineering, it's just a tube with 4 toleranced and concentric diameters. However, it is very well made. It will be orders of magnitude better than a carbon BB shell in terms of diameter control and concentricity. Concentricity is the key to bearing life, low drag, and being kind to the spindle. Such as the standards we're subjected to in this sport, we appear to be crowing over something normal and just well made. Do i need one? No. Fortunately my bikes' BB shells are well controlled and I've never had any problems with the plastic 2 piece stock options (either Shimano or gxp). One is still original from 2017! If you 'need' this BB to correct a bad frame, consider your frame choice or warranty options. Negatives. Not many but if your frame is *really* bad and is too tight on it's shell, pushing this in is quite intrusive. You need to be aware of the hoop stress you're imparting on the frame's fibres. You don't want it to ream it's way in. Disclosure: Mr Hambini did not know i was making this video. Joe (China Cycling) sent me it for some basic QC.
It's kind of expensive but if its only made one by one at different specs it will cost alot. As a machinist I can say the problems comes when you do the backside, the first operation is machine the outside an inner diameters. After that it must be flipped to do the last bearing surface after straighting it up with a indicator. And also soft backs is needed not to get marks.
Would love to see you do similar testing on hubshells (are DT swiss, for example, better than others... both exotic/expensive like WI, CarbonTi, i9 and standard/cheap like Bitex, Novatec)
I think you and Hambini are a perfect team. Your reserve and his.....mmmmm..."Eloquence" seems a match made in heaven. it would be a interesting to see some collaborations.
9:05 I remember in one of his video (about open cycle triying to sue him), that Hambini said 0.05mm was what he would expect from bicycle manufacturers in term of concentricity tolerance
Your point at the end, "whether you need one is up to you"; how do you know if you need one? If you're racing, whether its bike racing or triathlon and you have a list of different potential products on which to spend your cash, where does one of these BB's fit on that list? Obviously its going to depend on how crap your current BB is but as a rule of thumb, how does one of these BB's compare to other potential additions to your steed.
From what I can gather after watching hours and hours of hambini the actual savings is probably single to low double digit watts at any sort of achievable speed, but its mostly about not getting creeking noises and to get the BB bearings to last for the designed lifetime.
First, start off with a 3 jaw chuck with worn-out jaws that taper out. Imagine sticking a straight rod through the center of a cone. The stock material will naturally teeter-totter about the line contact points. This will be your easiest bet to intentionally cause runout. Next, stick out the part as far as you can possibly stick out. The further away from the clamping point the more leverage the cutting forces has to deflect the stock material. This will greatly aid in causing more runout. Rough and finish the inside dimensions. Then rough out all the OD features with a nice high-feed positive lead angle turning insert for that aggressive radial cutting force. Don't bother going back with a finishing tool. We're shooting for incredible amounts of runout. For additional runout, we can install an expanding mandrel or arbor fixture we used from a previous job but don't bother at all about how it goes back into the spindle. Thus naturally we can assume there will runout on the fixture. Now every part that now goes on said fixture will have at least this amount of runout 'imprinted' on to it. In summary. There's a lot of reasons why one side is nice and the other is out. What exactly took place isn't something we can determine without looking at how Hambini's fixturing and machining parameters. I'm don't know how thin the aluminum piece is but I don't think it's farfetched to think something happened during the press of the bearings as well.
I guess what I'd really like to know is how well within tolerance it stays once it's fitted to a frame (imperfect or otherwise). I own one of the PF30 to BB30 version and I think it's a great bit of kit and with the SKF MTRX bearings I'm hoping that the setup will last a few Scottish winters on the cross bike.
@@AquaPrince27 that's a pretty terrible lifespan so it better be better than that. I got over 40k miles on a BBinfinite before repacking and it was still pretty good at that point
Any chance you can make a similar video testing an off the shelf shimano equivalent? Forgive me if you have already done this, I had a quick look but couldn't find it.
I am missing the part about how these tolerances won't matter in a potato frame. Since this is a single unit, and the bearings are aligned with each other in reference to the surfaces in the shell and not the frame (as is the case in a lot of press fit bikes) the tight tolerances of this unit should have significant impact in sureness of bearing efficiency/longevity...right? This product is developed in reaction to poor alignment of bearings which is common in frames, this should align the bearings correctly, or am I missing something?
You are correct. The idea of this bottom bracket is that it help persuade the frame during installation such that your final bearing alignment will be decent.
You have to take your cable guides out on a tcr or the center sleeve crushes them, also the cable guide won't go in properly, however mine still works fine albeit the inner cables rattle in frame now in small ring
My thoughts exactly. From my metalworking experience it is much easier to achieve close, repeatable tolerances on a CNC. Manual Lathes leave a lot of space for human error (slide spindle backlash, tool setup, dirty toolpost during tool changes, bad depth of cur during roughing or finishing etc.). You can also tell that this HAS in fact been manufactured on a CNC Lathe. If you look at the chamfers you can tell that they were cut with a small cutting edge. On a manual lathe you would use a angled lathe tool with one relatively long, continuous edge unless you want to re-angle your compound which requires an annoying amount of time to do precisely.
Could you not have set the whole thing up on centres (into the delrin plugs) and done your run out on that. Do you think the squareness of the bore (where the crank spindle goes) to the ODs (where the frame) goes might be an interesting measurement? I can't see how a CNC lathe can be disqualified compared to an old fashioned type lathe, because it is all in the support of the job and the wear in the machine. A programmer can allow for machine wear just as well as the manual turner?
@@PeakTorque People care about quality until it gets in the way of features or rock bottom price. When most brands have their frames produced under contract by a third party, it's no surprise.
If it's 10 times the cost of an OEM-spec BB, you've got the choice of running the Hambini into the ground or having regularly refreshed bearings. A PF cup is typically plastic, so you've got something slightly compressible between the cartridge bearing and the not-perfectly-round shell in the frame. This could mean the deviations in the shell don't distort the bearing too much, whereas with the alu body of the Hambini, you've got a fight between shell, BB body and bearing and one of them needs to give way. Yes, a compressible bearing carrier means you might get some interesting torque across each bearing that translates into additional axial load, but is that going to wear the OEM BB more or less than 10 times faster than Hambini's BB?
@@PeakTorque I wondered about that. For an internal hub? If so, a discussion on the substantial losses (10% pwr loss being typical on at least one major brand) vs the 5% loss in another name brand would be fascinating. As in auto mechanics, when the internal planetary set is locked to the case (overdrive at 1:1...straight feed-through) losses are virtually zero. It is outside of racing nerd, but is completely inside engineering nerdness. Would love to see a vid and discussion on that, something very rarely seen outside of mech engineering sites.
@Nick Maclachlan I agree with everything you say after your first sentence: "It's neither really." This is where I disagree: if bicycle prices were reasonable for the quality of engineering encountered, I would - like you - discount the greed motive. With them being where they are - a "good" bike costing as much as a motorbike, and a top-of-the-line one costing as much as a small car, I really have an issue with dismissing greed as a cause of some of the issues.
High quality engineering such as in the defence industry, aerospace or F1 areas, is a costly business. Machine setup requires time consuming care by skilled operators, the post machining QC checks (not statistical probability but individual examination) is time consuming and costly, and reject rates can be high.
It's really easy to make a handful of very expensive things. A lot harder to make lots of relatively expensive things... I don't think people really appreciate this about mass manufacture.
So one flanged end, what stops the shell drifting out the frame?? Considering most frames people are going to buy this for are likely to have creaking issues and therefore sloppy fit.
Great video. How would this compare with a Dura Ace BB in tolerances, bearings etc? Or is it just a "better design" for frames with imperfect tolerances? I gather pro teams favour Hambini BBs so if you have money & watts...
I don't know how it would compare to a standard Shimano BB in terms of tolerances - good question. I suspect that BB tolerances on Shimano parts (from Tiagra/Alivio up) will be worse than this, but still way better than the frame. A better BB isn't going to do anything (other than possibly have slightly longer lasting bearings) if the frame tolerances are bad.
@@J88HNT in some of his videos he explained the reason: since the bb86 shell is 41mm wide, and the DUB spindle is 29mm, only 12mm are left for the metal sleeve and the bearing itself, which means that both of them will be undersized and prone to failure. Such cranks are better suited for BB shells with larger bores, like PF30, BB386evo, T47, etc. that can take wider bearings and will have more room for a thicker and stiffer BB sleeve.
The tolerances bearings are made to are incredibly tight. Its not likely that there will be any issues there. Now a test of the crank spindle- that could be interesting.
Thanks for the excellent review. Do you think this device can be used to check the alignment and roundness of the BB in newly-manufactured carbon frames? Regards, Gerrard.
At the beginning of the pandemic I bought an older Moots with BB30. Had it not come with a King already installed, I would have purchased a Hambini just to get ahead of the shortcomings of BB30. This was an excellent review and thanks for doing it.
FYI for the "threaded is better" guys - it might not creak, but it also might not turn. I have an aluminium frame with a Shimano Dura Ace 7700 BB installed, and it turns beautifully smoothly right until I tighten the lockring. With the lockring tight, it turns like it has lapping compound in it instead of grease. I worked in a bike shop in the '70s, and this wasn't unusual at all. Campagnolo made tools to fix these things one would not expect on a Colnago, Masi, Coppi, or (name your favorite old brand here) that cost you $1000 when minimum wage in the US was $1.25 an hour. Facing bottom brackets, chasing the threads, and squaring the head tube ends were well known to be essential to getting everything to work properly. Later in life I worked on road racing motorcycles and was perpetually amazed at the junk the factories sent out the door - brake mounts dragging on rotors, telescopic forks with axles too short causing severe binding on compression, suspension pivots engineered too small wearing out their bushings in less than a season...I wish it weren't so, but it is. And that's not even mentioning all the crap we had to fix with the engines themselves...a guy could spend 200 hours easily prepping a bike for a completely stock class without doing any cheats, just fixing the factory's garbage compliance with tolerances.
Yes. You can use a live center in the end away from the chuck to support it whilst turning the OD. You then switch to a steady rest whilst machining the ID. You'd almost eliminate the tool deflection and the consequent 0.02mm runout. BUT.... These extra setups take more machine time and would bump the cost up significantly!
@@northerngreg I remember Hambini saying that the material either resists compression better than expansion or the other way around. So there is a gain to had by machining either OD first or the ID. I just can't remember which it was.
I think the accuracy of the outer surface is unimportant as you indicated. The main benefit of this structure is having both bearings mounted into one very rigid, very concentric and straight piece of aluminium instead of them being in cups separately pressed into a not-so-accurate and also quite flexible bore molded into a carbon fiber frame. With this arrangement the bearings are rigidly held in near perfect alignment so the bad tolerances of the bottom bracket bore in the frame don't matter as long as the sleeve is held reliably. On earlier carbon frames they used a machined aluminium sleeve bonded to the bb bore into which the bearings are either pressed or mounted in threaded cups which achieves the same good alignment as the Hambini construction and eliminates the sloppy tolerances of carbon fiber from affecting bearing alignment. I have two carbon frames, both the old style with a bonded aluminium bb sleeve, one with threaded cups, one with pressed in bearings. Both have been ridden for thousands of kilometers on the same bearings, no creaking or other problems. I think the fundamental mistake is mounting the bearing cups directly into a molded carbon fiber bore, it's simply not accurate and rigid enough to act as a bearing mounting surface. Of course the modern way is cheaper and slightly lighter but in my opinion it's a poor design. What this product does is correct a critical flaw in the frame design by essentially converting it back into the older, better, though more expensive and slightly heavier, system.
Hambini could definitely market the "Hambini Orange". I would totally buy a BB in orange from him just so I could scream at people who ask me about it.
Why can't this also be measured after mounting on a fixed 24mm shaft to include errors related to bearing fit etc.? You've only measured the outer surfaces of the piece in this video, we have no idea how the interior surfaces relate.
Paid £175 for mine. Flawless for the last twelve months. I stick 1800w through bracket at some point though sprint. Never been a problem with this bracket.
@Red Lobster Skull pity I can't send you a screenshot from my garmin you prick. Silver medalist individual pursuit. 4th kilo. 5th points race. East Midlands sprnt pursuit road race champion . Gent 6 rider. Expert 250 mx rider. Pro jet ski racer. Midlands bodybuilder. Do one you non achiever.
@FITNESSOVER45 just a sprint peak. What's the laughing memes for? You've no idea who i am. Obviously what's impossible for you isn't for me. You're obviously questioning whilst not knowing who I am.
you went really tight with micrometer when measuring i dont like going until it clicks i like to stop before because it kinda squeezes a bit tome but its my opinion
I would have loved to see you do the same test with the token ninja BB. That way we can have a clear comparison before spending 5 times the amount on a Hambini BB.
No it disny! No such thing as precision, thats just a subjective term. Engineering 101 here as you get down to a certain level of tolerance you just look closer to see the imperfections and notice 2 things can never be made the exact same.. "trust me i know what im doing !" LoL 🤣 (only i will get that joke lol)
I have two of the master,s bottom bracket and I must say nothing because I don’t have to the bottom bracket does all the talking,so you have the money PLEASE send it on this product as it will make you do this 😀 great job Hambini keep up the first class work.
I'll send you the cash later!
HaterrrrrrrRRRRRZZZZ
Hambini has spoken!
😂😂 you made me scare my cat I had to laugh out so hard 😂😂
Ugandan dollars or Cayman banks only please.
@@PeakTorque I've made a note.
Congrats to Hambini for making the world's most tightly toleranced fleshlight. I'm sure his mother is proud.
I think Hambini would approve of this comment
I'll be honest, I'm a metric man but watching a lot of This Old Tony. Had to convert microns back into thousandths to picture it.
Those that mean that Hambini is a (fleshlight) mother....?
@@davidmarshall2399 you can picture thousandths?
@@c.j.burtwell8430 not in an absolute sense, but relatively when talking about tolerances.
It’s interesting how we are so "accommodating" with tolerances and quality in general when comes to a €/$10K bicycle, yet we demand much stricter tolerances on equivalent priced vehicles like motorbikes, or indeed anything else... it’s time so called "premium" bicycle manufactures get their quality up to same level as their marketing and sales. Kudos to @Hambini for keeping it real…
or perhaps stop selling them at a price that is not even close to being representative of the product
Take notice Specialized.
Maybe because of scale of production?
Because I’m sure that the demand for bike parts are as high as motorbikes and cars. I’m sure that everyone needs a road use bicycle as much as they need their car.
Look at F.P.Journe’s dial, Rolexes’ hands. So much for “premium” BS
@@87togabito given the global climate disaster everyone DOES need a bicycle and not their car...
The Hambini BB solved my BB issues. No more creaking or binding. Significantly extended lifespan compared to the individual cup BBs I had used. Great customer service. None of the previous BB's lasted for more than four months. I'd gladly buy another Hambini BB for my other bikes.
Hambini is not cheap and you have not stated what 4 months means ?
@@BantonOrg this is non-sensical
@@BantonOrg 4 months means 4 months yah knob. Not sure what you arent understanding...
@@OptimusSatanas 1,000 miles per day or sat in the shed doing nothing. Also, you threw an insult while being unsure. Don't do that if you don't want to look stupid.
@@BantonOrg The unsureness has to do with your not having a valid argument. Its not due to any deficit on my end lil pal.
Material: Sent a sample to contacts at an undisclosed US government location in a desert and they confirmed that it is not a standard ASTM aluminium alloy. It seems to be a bespoke alloy found in certain turbine engine structures. Aerospace industry refers to it as "Hambinium."
Brilliant
But did they not spell it "Hambinum"? And thus, pronounce it differently? ;)
I must commend Peak Torque for this type of review. We are usually bamboozled by buzz words from the bike industry but this is quite raw, hard facts presented. Really good, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
His review is flawed. I explained in the comments above whether you understand the engineering counterpoint or not.
@@lukewalker1051 how is it flawed. cant find your comment...
I didn’t think 5 year olds were capable of such engineering marvel. Well done! ^_^
I have a Hambini BB in my Cervelo R5 2016. I had to have a custom one as Cervelo take a rather cavalier approach to standards. Hambini got me to measure my frame and the BB went in perfectly. It’s spins like silk even after quite a few thousand miles ( certainly more than 7,000) it’s brilliant and I think it’s worth the money.
Please don’t talk ill of Cervelo. They are the ducks nuts. Please delete the comment immediately. #dontyouknowtheyrewatchingus?
@@topher.m I absolutely love my Cervelo R5. The third R5 frame I’ve had. The first I crashed and broke so I bought a replacement. That was out of alignment and Cervelo gave me a replacement. That has been superb. Unfortunately although the BB shell is round and concentric it is undersized. Certainly makes it difficult to insert or remove an off the shelf replacement. I have found the Hambini BB solves this problem. I’ve done over 21,000miles on this frame and probably over 10,000 on the previous two. I can’t say I’m the fan of the more recent Cervelo disc bikes. I didn’t like the changes they mad to the geometry. Probably suits some people.
@@topher.m Cervelo, overpriced crap
@@mixalis6168 Agreed, ill never own a sir Velo again.
Many companies have issues with the press fit bottom brackets. Their manufacturing tolerances are too wide. This is why many companies have switched to t47 or back to bsa and the like. Its easier to get a quality fit by installing a piece of metal and threading it.
Many bottom brackets can go 7,000 miles. Most of my bikes never got an upgrade to the bottom bracket or the cranks. Some went flying off many jumps with only a tire for suspension. Were talking old square taper stuff that everyone turns their nose up to today.
They say you can judge a man by the roundness of his hole
WeirdChamp
Pog comment
and the wholeness of his round
Bravo to Peak Torque for showing us the Geometric Tolerances (GD&T properly as well as his inspection setup for measuring those features (total runout). As a manufacturing/ machining person i appreciated that. Well done!
It's better if we saw a Chris King or other high end BB to compare with the Hambini, nice opinion and review 👍
BB Shootout!
I would say you have it backwards on the machining side of things. Judging by the distribution of high and low spots on the side with the flange, considering you have more than one per revolution, this is the side that has been fixed in the lathe. The fixture that has been used caused a slight deformation while the part is turned.
Deflection on the free end of a part usually causes a taper...
This is just an armchair observation of course.
Love what hambini is doing, even though he might be harsh at times.
I find him to be pretty coarse which left me thinking him to be a bit of a twat initially but I have since warmed to him, and realised that it's just who he is and isn't really meant maliciously.
I like engineers checking engineers. So tired of the marketing hyperbole.
This is just a different kind of marketing 👍🏾
This is also just marketing, its just the kind that appeals to you. Explaining their tolerances to justify pricing around 8x ($200) the normal BB is marketing as much as shimano mass producing a pretty good bb for $30 and sponsoring MVDP
@@zachcalton3199 you think MVDP is running a 30$ BB ?
@@janeztomazic5546 no, and while my comment didn’t make the distinction super clear, I didn’t say that. There are many ways to market. Sponsoring the fast guy and getting brand in front of eyes, and making people pick the shimano bike with whatever bb is in there, is just as much marketing as making UA-cam campaigns explaining how your BB is 10-50 microns more accurately manufactured in exchange for an 800% price increase
@@zachcalton3199 if you are talking about hambini BB, only bearings are worth 100USD and its not only microns is also the quality and stiffness, I have the BB30 one and am not sorry I bought it.
I ll always take the quality of product over the "fast guy has it"
When a british person says "really really good" or "pretty damn good" that is the equivalent of any other person saying it's best in class or the best you can find etc.
Yeh we're a miserable bunch most of the time. That's why i left
The British compliment is "that's not bad".
@@peterlucas5634 the north german one: "it´s quite ok."
It's far beyond "not to bad" indeed
or an American saying "It's awesome!! whilst wearing back to front baseball cap and sporting a manicured beard....
I bought Hambini bb for my cannondale bb30a it was brilliant. Other bbs wouldn't even fit properly . Kept it when I sold frame just incase
I had Dura Ace, then Wheels Mfg, and now a Hambini BB in my Canyon bike. The Hambini was absolutely noticeable in making my frame a bit stiffer when pedaling at higher power. My bike also doesn't creak anymore.
Can't wait to put this perfect BB in my Potato carbon frame.
bruh i spat my coffee everywhere (use to think my Cervelo was the lick)
now even with a visual inspection i can see whats wrong with my frame
Edit: maybe the video was too short for some of your Hambinites. Some more detail - This BB is by no means a feat of engineering, it's just a tube with 4 toleranced and concentric diameters. However, it is very well made. It will be orders of magnitude better than a carbon BB shell in terms of diameter control and concentricity. Concentricity is the key to bearing life, low drag, and being kind to the spindle. Such as the standards we're subjected to in this sport, we appear to be crowing over something normal and just well made.
Do i need one? No. Fortunately my bikes' BB shells are well controlled and I've never had any problems with the plastic 2 piece stock options (either Shimano or gxp). One is still original from 2017! If you 'need' this BB to correct a bad frame, consider your frame choice or warranty options.
Negatives. Not many but if your frame is *really* bad and is too tight on it's shell, pushing this in is quite intrusive. You need to be aware of the hoop stress you're imparting on the frame's fibres. You don't want it to ream it's way in.
Disclosure: Mr Hambini did not know i was making this video. Joe (China Cycling) sent me it for some basic QC.
@Peak Torque Surprised you didn't use Dr instead of Mr
Good to know! 👍
Sometimes, just being very well-made is a feat all in itself.
There was also insufficient PowerPoint
Your clickbait title is very misleading. Sounds like his customers are satisfied. For all we know your measurement tools could be out of spec.
Impressive review, really eye opening and informative. Loving the detailed, in-depth technical assessment of this. Great stuff!
It's kind of expensive but if its only made one by one at different specs it will cost alot. As a machinist I can say the problems comes when you do the backside, the first operation is machine the outside an inner diameters. After that it must be flipped to do the last bearing surface after straighting it up with a indicator. And also soft backs is needed not to get marks.
Great info. Cheers
Use a collet chuck. Better repeatability and gentler on the part.
@@web1bastler or run an sdz back boring bar and do it all in one chucking.
Would love to see you do similar testing on hubshells (are DT swiss, for example, better than others... both exotic/expensive like WI, CarbonTi, i9 and standard/cheap like Bitex, Novatec)
Henceforth please show your calculations on ruling paper with a Princess Blanket watermark, thank you.
I think you and Hambini are a perfect team. Your reserve and his.....mmmmm..."Eloquence" seems a match made in heaven. it would be a interesting to see some collaborations.
You and Joe realize hambini is going to be even more insufferable now (if that were possible)
I wish my brain worked like this. I'm going to buy a $400 Velobuild frame and stick one of these in it. Thanks Hambini!
Worked like what? He's only using a dial guage and V-block to measure a cyclindrical object. It's hardly rocket science.
9:05 I remember in one of his video (about open cycle triying to sue him), that Hambini said 0.05mm was what he would expect from bicycle manufacturers in term of concentricity tolerance
If Hambinis BB isn’t the shiz, would those of other manufacturers be specks on the anus of humanity by comparison?
Would need a log scale
Absolutely. Still waiting for bronze bushings to be the latest and greatest setup. The consumer is gullible. Hambini cuts through marketing hype!
The Science of Hambini.
Your point at the end, "whether you need one is up to you"; how do you know if you need one? If you're racing, whether its bike racing or triathlon and you have a list of different potential products on which to spend your cash, where does one of these BB's fit on that list? Obviously its going to depend on how crap your current BB is but as a rule of thumb, how does one of these BB's compare to other potential additions to your steed.
I think you are saying it's "The Lick", not a sh@* bag! The four dislikes are from GCN, cycling news and Cervelo
Exactly how many more percents faster, compliant, aero, stiffer, feels good and lighter is it than other BBs?
Zero
From what I can gather after watching hours and hours of hambini the actual savings is probably single to low double digit watts at any sort of achievable speed, but its mostly about not getting creeking noises and to get the BB bearings to last for the designed lifetime.
"the frame you're pushing it into will be a bag of shite". One thing at a time I think.
6:45 Just curious....what sort of machining process would produce 20x more) on the other??
First, start off with a 3 jaw chuck with worn-out jaws that taper out. Imagine sticking a straight rod through the center of a cone. The stock material will naturally teeter-totter about the line contact points. This will be your easiest bet to intentionally cause runout.
Next, stick out the part as far as you can possibly stick out. The further away from the clamping point the more leverage the cutting forces has to deflect the stock material. This will greatly aid in causing more runout.
Rough and finish the inside dimensions. Then rough out all the OD features with a nice high-feed positive lead angle turning insert for that aggressive radial cutting force. Don't bother going back with a finishing tool. We're shooting for incredible amounts of runout.
For additional runout, we can install an expanding mandrel or arbor fixture we used from a previous job but don't bother at all about how it goes back into the spindle. Thus naturally we can assume there will runout on the fixture. Now every part that now goes on said fixture will have at least this amount of runout 'imprinted' on to it.
In summary. There's a lot of reasons why one side is nice and the other is out. What exactly took place isn't something we can determine without looking at how Hambini's fixturing and machining parameters. I'm don't know how thin the aluminum piece is but I don't think it's farfetched to think something happened during the press of the bearings as well.
I’d rather buy that than a Rapha shirt 😂 nice work lads 🤘🏻
realy incredibile the amout of large and extra large cycling gear that on for sale
If you're buying your own Rapha....as opposed to someone to whom Rapha gives the stuff ...
I guess what I'd really like to know is how well within tolerance it stays once it's fitted to a frame (imperfect or otherwise). I own one of the PF30 to BB30 version and I think it's a great bit of kit and with the SKF MTRX bearings I'm hoping that the setup will last a few Scottish winters on the cross bike.
I’d guess it’s gonna last at least 5 years on a bike being ridden 100 miles a month
@@AquaPrince27 that's a pretty terrible lifespan so it better be better than that. I got over 40k miles on a BBinfinite before repacking and it was still pretty good at that point
I love it. My anonymous source - Joe from China Cycling.
Any chance you can make a similar video testing an off the shelf shimano equivalent?
Forgive me if you have already done this, I had a quick look but couldn't find it.
Great review. I have a T47 from Hambini. It is great...gettitng a PF30 too....great products and this was a great review.
I am missing the part about how these tolerances won't matter in a potato frame. Since this is a single unit, and the bearings are aligned with each other in reference to the surfaces in the shell and not the frame (as is the case in a lot of press fit bikes) the tight tolerances of this unit should have significant impact in sureness of bearing efficiency/longevity...right? This product is developed in reaction to poor alignment of bearings which is common in frames, this should align the bearings correctly, or am I missing something?
You are correct. The idea of this bottom bracket is that it help persuade the frame during installation such that your final bearing alignment will be decent.
You have to take your cable guides out on a tcr or the center sleeve crushes them, also the cable guide won't go in properly, however mine still works fine albeit the inner cables rattle in frame now in small ring
"reviewed by a five year old maritime engineer "
Always nice to see someone pass peer review so well
Not hard to get tight tolerance on a CNC , it's probably held in a collet in stead of a chuck so you have more even pressure on the bar .
My thoughts exactly. From my metalworking experience it is much easier to achieve close, repeatable tolerances on a CNC. Manual Lathes leave a lot of space for human error (slide spindle backlash, tool setup, dirty toolpost during tool changes, bad depth of cur during roughing or finishing etc.). You can also tell that this HAS in fact been manufactured on a CNC Lathe. If you look at the chamfers you can tell that they were cut with a small cutting edge. On a manual lathe you would use a angled lathe tool with one relatively long, continuous edge unless you want to re-angle your compound which requires an annoying amount of time to do precisely.
Could you not have set the whole thing up on centres (into the delrin plugs) and done your run out on that.
Do you think the squareness of the bore (where the crank spindle goes) to the ODs (where the frame) goes might be an interesting measurement?
I can't see how a CNC lathe can be disqualified compared to an old fashioned type lathe, because it is all in the support of the job and the wear in the machine. A programmer can allow for machine wear just as well as the manual turner?
interesting, maybe do a cooperation? Scare the big brands into better quality?
People don't care about actual quality, they just want a bunch of Specialized engineers spewing marketing copy.
@@drunken_moose I'm not sure they *want* that. It's just become the norm.
@@PeakTorque People care about quality until it gets in the way of features or rock bottom price. When most brands have their frames produced under contract by a third party, it's no surprise.
If it's 10 times the cost of an OEM-spec BB, you've got the choice of running the Hambini into the ground or having regularly refreshed bearings.
A PF cup is typically plastic, so you've got something slightly compressible between the cartridge bearing and the not-perfectly-round shell in the frame. This could mean the deviations in the shell don't distort the bearing too much, whereas with the alu body of the Hambini, you've got a fight between shell, BB body and bearing and one of them needs to give way. Yes, a compressible bearing carrier means you might get some interesting torque across each bearing that translates into additional axial load, but is that going to wear the OEM BB more or less than 10 times faster than Hambini's BB?
@@EmyrDerfel a properly machined bottom bracket would not cost 10x to mass produce. That's just bullshit
I'd give a score of 10 in the over-engineered scale - a bit like buying a Ferrari for the school run.
thats the point
9:33 is that from a harmonic drive strain wave gear bearing?
Nope. This is a ring gear for a custom planetary gear.
@@PeakTorque I wondered about that. For an internal hub? If so, a discussion on the substantial losses (10% pwr loss being typical on at least one major brand) vs the 5% loss in another name brand would be fascinating. As in auto mechanics, when the internal planetary set is locked to the case (overdrive at 1:1...straight feed-through) losses are virtually zero.
It is outside of racing nerd, but is completely inside engineering nerdness. Would love to see a vid and discussion on that, something very rarely seen outside of mech engineering sites.
For an endless supply of bottom brackets just paper mache a loo role and then use a black wax crayon to waterproof it. Thank me later
Instructions unclear, I'm now out of toilet paper
This is the real reason people were mass buying toilet paper
careful or cannondale will sue you for patent infringement
@@gaveltron 😂👍
Hambini performance plumbing! He makes a great product like the major manufacturers could have done but were too lazy.
I suspect it's more about greed than laziness
@Nick Maclachlan I agree with everything you say after your first sentence:
"It's neither really."
This is where I disagree: if bicycle prices were reasonable for the quality of engineering encountered, I would - like you - discount the greed motive. With them being where they are - a "good" bike costing as much as a motorbike, and a top-of-the-line one costing as much as a small car, I really have an issue with dismissing greed as a cause of some of the issues.
High quality engineering such as in the defence industry, aerospace or F1 areas, is a costly business. Machine setup requires time consuming care by skilled operators, the post machining QC checks (not statistical probability but individual examination) is time consuming and costly, and reject rates can be high.
It's really easy to make a handful of very expensive things. A lot harder to make lots of relatively expensive things... I don't think people really appreciate this about mass manufacture.
So one flanged end, what stops the shell drifting out the frame?? Considering most frames people are going to buy this for are likely to have creaking issues and therefore sloppy fit.
Hi,
Do you think angular bearing are worth it for Shimano Ultegra crank?
Thanks.
Great video. How would this compare with a Dura Ace BB in tolerances, bearings etc? Or is it just a "better design" for frames with imperfect tolerances? I gather pro teams favour Hambini BBs so if you have money & watts...
I don't know how it would compare to a standard Shimano BB in terms of tolerances - good question. I suspect that BB tolerances on Shimano parts (from Tiagra/Alivio up) will be worse than this, but still way better than the frame. A better BB isn't going to do anything (other than possibly have slightly longer lasting bearings) if the frame tolerances are bad.
So, it’s the Lick!? Thanks for bringing us the most polite and measured language on a Hambini review, ever🤬😖
I can only agree with this comment. When I play a Hambini vid my wife scouls and strongly suggest I watch something more edifying....😀
Why not include BB Infinite to have some comparison?
Second this
BBInfinite is a cheaper alternative, and they have more stock. I also want to know how good their stuff is.
I’m going to order a Bbinfinite bb because Hambini doesn’t make a BB86 for SRAM DUB.
@@J88HNT in some of his videos he explained the reason: since the bb86 shell is 41mm wide, and the DUB spindle is 29mm, only 12mm are left for the metal sleeve and the bearing itself, which means that both of them will be undersized and prone to failure. Such cranks are better suited for BB shells with larger bores, like PF30, BB386evo, T47, etc. that can take wider bearings and will have more room for a thicker and stiffer BB sleeve.
@@c4p3fi3rr we know the reason why, but there are always having a "BUT". LOL
Part of me wonders about doing a roll out test on the interior surface of the bearing that would contact the crank spindle ...
The tolerances bearings are made to are incredibly tight. Its not likely that there will be any issues there. Now a test of the crank spindle- that could be interesting.
Thanks for the excellent review. Do you think this device can be used to check the alignment and roundness of the BB in newly-manufactured carbon frames? Regards, Gerrard.
G's running 3T robot made frames now; curious to see if Italian bots make a better hole than Chinese children...
can't you support this part from both ends so there is no flex when machining?
Need to mount this BB on a spindle, support the spindle ends on V-blocks then check runout on outer diameters.
Can you review CYBREI’s bottom bracket?
Belinda must be proud.
As you said at the end of the video, it's horses for courses. I normally have to find "economic solutions" rather than spending to victory
Are you measuring the runout on the V block or the roundness?
You should do the same test on the BBinfinite ones. Like same model one for comparison it would be interesting to see
At the beginning of the pandemic I bought an older Moots with BB30. Had it not come with a King already installed, I would have purchased a Hambini just to get ahead of the shortcomings of BB30. This was an excellent review and thanks for doing it.
FYI for the "threaded is better" guys - it might not creak, but it also might not turn. I have an aluminium frame with a Shimano Dura Ace 7700 BB installed, and it turns beautifully smoothly right until I tighten the lockring. With the lockring tight, it turns like it has lapping compound in it instead of grease. I worked in a bike shop in the '70s, and this wasn't unusual at all. Campagnolo made tools to fix these things one would not expect on a Colnago, Masi, Coppi, or (name your favorite old brand here) that cost you $1000 when minimum wage in the US was $1.25 an hour. Facing bottom brackets, chasing the threads, and squaring the head tube ends were well known to be essential to getting everything to work properly. Later in life I worked on road racing motorcycles and was perpetually amazed at the junk the factories sent out the door - brake mounts dragging on rotors, telescopic forks with axles too short causing severe binding on compression, suspension pivots engineered too small wearing out their bushings in less than a season...I wish it weren't so, but it is. And that's not even mentioning all the crap we had to fix with the engines themselves...a guy could spend 200 hours easily prepping a bike for a completely stock class without doing any cheats, just fixing the factory's garbage compliance with tolerances.
a 1 piece press-fit bottom bracket. you need an exact length if you buy one.
Why do we need a VPN when purchasing from Hambini's site?
Can the part be clamped at both ends on the lathe when machining the external surface and would there be any improvement?
Yes. You can use a live center in the end away from the chuck to support it whilst turning the OD. You then switch to a steady rest whilst machining the ID. You'd almost eliminate the tool deflection and the consequent 0.02mm runout. BUT.... These extra setups take more machine time and would bump the cost up significantly!
@@northerngreg I remember Hambini saying that the material either resists compression better than expansion or the other way around. So there is a gain to had by machining either OD first or the ID. I just can't remember which it was.
But, are there any carbon frames to match this level of engineering?
Or will it end up rattling in the BB shell like a can of aerosol paint?
Can it not be bonded in ?
1) No 2) for some people it will help remove one possible reason for problems with the fit. - so may be worth it.
In comments you state you have an original bb from 2017 fitted on one of your bikes? How many km have you done and type of rides on said bike?
Yeah boy, just what I need after my ride
A sample of one- what about batch consistency?
Hambini is zero tolerance guy! Lol.
May I know the fit tolerance for carbon frame's body shell? (Roundness n Diameter tolerance)
Are you going to replace your Sram gxp bb with this on the tcr?
No. No way. I've never had problem with the plastic bbs on TCR.
I think the accuracy of the outer surface is unimportant as you indicated. The main benefit of this structure is having both bearings mounted into one very rigid, very concentric and straight piece of aluminium instead of them being in cups separately pressed into a not-so-accurate and also quite flexible bore molded into a carbon fiber frame. With this arrangement the bearings are rigidly held in near perfect alignment so the bad tolerances of the bottom bracket bore in the frame don't matter as long as the sleeve is held reliably.
On earlier carbon frames they used a machined aluminium sleeve bonded to the bb bore into which the bearings are either pressed or mounted in threaded cups which achieves the same good alignment as the Hambini construction and eliminates the sloppy tolerances of carbon fiber from affecting bearing alignment. I have two carbon frames, both the old style with a bonded aluminium bb sleeve, one with threaded cups, one with pressed in bearings. Both have been ridden for thousands of kilometers on the same bearings, no creaking or other problems. I think the fundamental mistake is mounting the bearing cups directly into a molded carbon fiber bore, it's simply not accurate and rigid enough to act as a bearing mounting surface. Of course the modern way is cheaper and slightly lighter but in my opinion it's a poor design. What this product does is correct a critical flaw in the frame design by essentially converting it back into the older, better, though more expensive and slightly heavier, system.
Nice job 😊. Oil refinery? Hambini cc
Hambini could definitely market the "Hambini Orange". I would totally buy a BB in orange from him just so I could scream at people who ask me about it.
How much?
Why can't this also be measured after mounting on a fixed 24mm shaft to include errors related to bearing fit etc.? You've only measured the outer surfaces of the piece in this video, we have no idea how the interior surfaces relate.
Also, no idea how this behaves when installed in a typical frame. Need to measure bearing drag before and after.
You could clamp the free end into a sled to reduce the runout.
looks like Solid Edge..?
Paid £175 for mine.
Flawless for the last twelve months.
I stick 1800w through bracket at some point though sprint. Never been a problem with this bracket.
@Red Lobster Skull pity I can't send you a screenshot from my garmin you prick.
Silver medalist individual pursuit.
4th kilo.
5th points race.
East Midlands sprnt pursuit road race champion . Gent 6 rider. Expert 250 mx rider. Pro jet ski racer. Midlands bodybuilder. Do one you non achiever.
@FITNESSOVER45 just a sprint peak. What's the laughing memes for? You've no idea who i am. Obviously what's impossible for you isn't for me. You're obviously questioning whilst not knowing who I am.
@@madplanet3351 Is it Ronnie Pickering?
5 yr old punk can run a lathe, that's for sure mate.
Heading is a bit misleading after watching whole clip, what does "sewage" relate to?
Hello hambini fans!
Not loud enough. I think you meant
HELLO HAMBINI FANS
@@hutchmusician ... and welcome
you went really tight with micrometer when measuring i dont like going until it clicks i like to stop before because it kinda squeezes a bit tome but its my opinion
Run out measuring ????
That website photos are very convincing. So is hambini indeed just a refinery worker?
Before he started measuring I was sure he had found a faulty part and would start calling Hambini a C-U-Next-Tuesday.
You can’t hide your admiration for the bb, yet at times can’t stop bowing to the Big Bike Brands cartel.
I think this BB has already been instaled on the China Cycling bike.
I would have loved to see you do the same test with the token ninja BB. That way we can have a clear comparison before spending 5 times the amount on a Hambini BB.
Love dry English wit X Engineer humour ...best combo in the game
Hambini is precision down to the micron which equals perfection
No it disny! No such thing as precision, thats just a subjective term. Engineering 101 here as you get down to a certain level of tolerance you just look closer to see the imperfections and notice 2 things can never be made the exact same.. "trust me i know what im doing !" LoL 🤣 (only i will get that joke lol)
Refreshing to see that hambini knows what he's talking about! Especially as he gives out so much flak... Good video
Rightfully so for dishout out flak for substandard products being sold at eye watering levels. Cervelo anybody?
Nice to see you've backed up Hambini's work! 👍
Why is it titled 'Sewage Level Engineering?'
Thanks for this excellent video!!! My faith in Hambini was not misplaced...
Does your hollow tech BB last forever?
And thank you Hambini, I’m a new fan And the Pen Is working !!
I have two of the master,s bottom bracket and I must say nothing because I don’t have to the bottom bracket does all the talking,so you have the money PLEASE send it on this product as it will make you do this 😀 great job Hambini keep up the first class work.