Edit: maybe the video was too short for some of your Hambinites. Some more detail - This BB is by no means a feat of engineering, it's just a tube with 4 toleranced and concentric diameters. However, it is very well made. It will be orders of magnitude better than a carbon BB shell in terms of diameter control and concentricity. Concentricity is the key to bearing life, low drag, and being kind to the spindle. Such as the standards we're subjected to in this sport, we appear to be crowing over something normal and just well made. Do i need one? No. Fortunately my bikes' BB shells are well controlled and I've never had any problems with the plastic 2 piece stock options (either Shimano or gxp). One is still original from 2017! If you 'need' this BB to correct a bad frame, consider your frame choice or warranty options. Negatives. Not many but if your frame is *really* bad and is too tight on it's shell, pushing this in is quite intrusive. You need to be aware of the hoop stress you're imparting on the frame's fibres. You don't want it to ream it's way in. Disclosure: Mr Hambini did not know i was making this video. Joe (China Cycling) sent me it for some basic QC.
Bravo to Peak Torque for showing us the Geometric Tolerances (GD&T properly as well as his inspection setup for measuring those features (total runout). As a manufacturing/ machining person i appreciated that. Well done!
This is also just marketing, its just the kind that appeals to you. Explaining their tolerances to justify pricing around 8x ($200) the normal BB is marketing as much as shimano mass producing a pretty good bb for $30 and sponsoring MVDP
@@janeztomazic5546 no, and while my comment didn’t make the distinction super clear, I didn’t say that. There are many ways to market. Sponsoring the fast guy and getting brand in front of eyes, and making people pick the shimano bike with whatever bb is in there, is just as much marketing as making UA-cam campaigns explaining how your BB is 10-50 microns more accurately manufactured in exchange for an 800% price increase
@@zachcalton3199 if you are talking about hambini BB, only bearings are worth 100USD and its not only microns is also the quality and stiffness, I have the BB30 one and am not sorry I bought it. I ll always take the quality of product over the "fast guy has it"
It’s interesting how we are so "accommodating" with tolerances and quality in general when comes to a €/$10K bicycle, yet we demand much stricter tolerances on equivalent priced vehicles like motorbikes, or indeed anything else... it’s time so called "premium" bicycle manufactures get their quality up to same level as their marketing and sales. Kudos to @Hambini for keeping it real…
Maybe because of scale of production? Because I’m sure that the demand for bike parts are as high as motorbikes and cars. I’m sure that everyone needs a road use bicycle as much as they need their car.
I must commend Peak Torque for this type of review. We are usually bamboozled by buzz words from the bike industry but this is quite raw, hard facts presented. Really good, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Material: Sent a sample to contacts at an undisclosed US government location in a desert and they confirmed that it is not a standard ASTM aluminium alloy. It seems to be a bespoke alloy found in certain turbine engine structures. Aerospace industry refers to it as "Hambinium."
When a british person says "really really good" or "pretty damn good" that is the equivalent of any other person saying it's best in class or the best you can find etc.
It's kind of expensive but if its only made one by one at different specs it will cost alot. As a machinist I can say the problems comes when you do the backside, the first operation is machine the outside an inner diameters. After that it must be flipped to do the last bearing surface after straighting it up with a indicator. And also soft backs is needed not to get marks.
9:05 I remember in one of his video (about open cycle triying to sue him), that Hambini said 0.05mm was what he would expect from bicycle manufacturers in term of concentricity tolerance
The Hambini BB solved my BB issues. No more creaking or binding. Significantly extended lifespan compared to the individual cup BBs I had used. Great customer service. None of the previous BB's lasted for more than four months. I'd gladly buy another Hambini BB for my other bikes.
@@OptimusSatanas 1,000 miles per day or sat in the shed doing nothing. Also, you threw an insult while being unsure. Don't do that if you don't want to look stupid.
@Nick Maclachlan I agree with everything you say after your first sentence: "It's neither really." This is where I disagree: if bicycle prices were reasonable for the quality of engineering encountered, I would - like you - discount the greed motive. With them being where they are - a "good" bike costing as much as a motorbike, and a top-of-the-line one costing as much as a small car, I really have an issue with dismissing greed as a cause of some of the issues.
High quality engineering such as in the defence industry, aerospace or F1 areas, is a costly business. Machine setup requires time consuming care by skilled operators, the post machining QC checks (not statistical probability but individual examination) is time consuming and costly, and reject rates can be high.
It's really easy to make a handful of very expensive things. A lot harder to make lots of relatively expensive things... I don't think people really appreciate this about mass manufacture.
I have a Hambini BB in my Cervelo R5 2016. I had to have a custom one as Cervelo take a rather cavalier approach to standards. Hambini got me to measure my frame and the BB went in perfectly. It’s spins like silk even after quite a few thousand miles ( certainly more than 7,000) it’s brilliant and I think it’s worth the money.
@@topher.m I absolutely love my Cervelo R5. The third R5 frame I’ve had. The first I crashed and broke so I bought a replacement. That was out of alignment and Cervelo gave me a replacement. That has been superb. Unfortunately although the BB shell is round and concentric it is undersized. Certainly makes it difficult to insert or remove an off the shelf replacement. I have found the Hambini BB solves this problem. I’ve done over 21,000miles on this frame and probably over 10,000 on the previous two. I can’t say I’m the fan of the more recent Cervelo disc bikes. I didn’t like the changes they mad to the geometry. Probably suits some people.
Would love to see you do similar testing on hubshells (are DT swiss, for example, better than others... both exotic/expensive like WI, CarbonTi, i9 and standard/cheap like Bitex, Novatec)
I would say you have it backwards on the machining side of things. Judging by the distribution of high and low spots on the side with the flange, considering you have more than one per revolution, this is the side that has been fixed in the lathe. The fixture that has been used caused a slight deformation while the part is turned. Deflection on the free end of a part usually causes a taper... This is just an armchair observation of course. Love what hambini is doing, even though he might be harsh at times.
I find him to be pretty coarse which left me thinking him to be a bit of a twat initially but I have since warmed to him, and realised that it's just who he is and isn't really meant maliciously.
@@PeakTorque People care about quality until it gets in the way of features or rock bottom price. When most brands have their frames produced under contract by a third party, it's no surprise.
If it's 10 times the cost of an OEM-spec BB, you've got the choice of running the Hambini into the ground or having regularly refreshed bearings. A PF cup is typically plastic, so you've got something slightly compressible between the cartridge bearing and the not-perfectly-round shell in the frame. This could mean the deviations in the shell don't distort the bearing too much, whereas with the alu body of the Hambini, you've got a fight between shell, BB body and bearing and one of them needs to give way. Yes, a compressible bearing carrier means you might get some interesting torque across each bearing that translates into additional axial load, but is that going to wear the OEM BB more or less than 10 times faster than Hambini's BB?
the amount of money wasted making that thing that concentric/accurate is so pointless and making it cost so unbelievably more than it needs to be. frankly im surprised it doesnt cost more. I would never recommend buying this. what I would buy from him is a special made BB where your frame is flawed and requires a special made one. and for something like that having a BB made that specific has more purpose. because if you want a BB that isnt gonna creek, in a flawed frame, its going to take someone with that level of detail. (I am a machinist by trade for 20 years)
The tolerances bearings are made to are incredibly tight. Its not likely that there will be any issues there. Now a test of the crank spindle- that could be interesting.
If you didn't watch this to hear what you wanted to, then it's a fair take on the part itself. I'm happy you didn't endorse it's application, since the frame dimensions dictate the solution. If you can't correct the bore in the frame, then any bottom bracket will work as poorly as the next.
Why can't this also be measured after mounting on a fixed 24mm shaft to include errors related to bearing fit etc.? You've only measured the outer surfaces of the piece in this video, we have no idea how the interior surfaces relate.
From what I can gather after watching hours and hours of hambini the actual savings is probably single to low double digit watts at any sort of achievable speed, but its mostly about not getting creeking noises and to get the BB bearings to last for the designed lifetime.
The ZTTO company went a step further with the Threaded BB 386, BB30 with double O rings to make sure any vibrations are not amplified by the carbon BB area. They actually did a very good job "copying the gasket design :o)" at making not only installation super easy as both sides press in together by threading them slowly but the simpler design of 2 pieces means pressing it in leaves less damage and less forces applied to the BB carbon area cup faces versus the one piece Hambini or Wheels Manufacturing ones.
I had Dura Ace, then Wheels Mfg, and now a Hambini BB in my Canyon bike. The Hambini was absolutely noticeable in making my frame a bit stiffer when pedaling at higher power. My bike also doesn't creak anymore.
I think you and Hambini are a perfect team. Your reserve and his.....mmmmm..."Eloquence" seems a match made in heaven. it would be a interesting to see some collaborations.
Thanks for the excellent review. Do you think this device can be used to check the alignment and roundness of the BB in newly-manufactured carbon frames? Regards, Gerrard.
And to think that bb was removed from a frame already and the tolerance is that good , wondering if you got one that was not used how perfect it could be , hambini is the shit man ,🤔😜
Any chance you can make a similar video testing an off the shelf shimano equivalent? Forgive me if you have already done this, I had a quick look but couldn't find it.
@@J88HNT in some of his videos he explained the reason: since the bb86 shell is 41mm wide, and the DUB spindle is 29mm, only 12mm are left for the metal sleeve and the bearing itself, which means that both of them will be undersized and prone to failure. Such cranks are better suited for BB shells with larger bores, like PF30, BB386evo, T47, etc. that can take wider bearings and will have more room for a thicker and stiffer BB sleeve.
really helpful info for us bike noobs trying to make good consumer choices! Honestly so fucking grateful. I like to do my research before spending big on tools. been thinking a trek carbon sport, but im probs getting a look bike now. Amazing reviews !
If you did not measure the bearing seats concentricity then what is the point? The inner surfaces are most likely not machined with the same cutting tool as the outer surfaces. The real question is if the 2 inner races are machined in the same fixture, and what amount of tool holder flex there is. And what is standard out of the box aluminum? My guess is that the alloy is 7075(2% magnesium). Please cut down on the mr. actual engineer ethos. People will believe anything you say, but we will be collectively more stupid. Just like the bike industry in general.
as an ex-aerospace engineer and still remembering few things, I suggest not using the V blocks on the two diameters that you are directly measuring the circular runout, then extending the results to measurement of assumed concentricity of a long cylindrical body - as the datum A really becomes those two surfaces (well not quite, as you know, since v-block will touch two points...). What can be done with this setup is by checking "cylindrical runout" on both press-fit OD's to the bores for the bearings as well. Checking the bores on the drop gauge should be easy enough... in this case, cylindrical runout will be just few circular runout measurements. However, you would need to clock the thing, check in few different places and record your highs/lows, can give you some idea on the actual concentricity of the two ends and may give you some clues if the part is total crap - in this case, I assumed not, since @Hambini appears to make the whole thing on the lathe in one setup. Another way to do this cheaply probably was to check the bores on v-block to see if they are good/crap, then if they are good, use those to put them between centers. Now, all this would have been way easier, proper equipment like a roundness checker should have been used - Taylor Hobson on that side of the pond makes a good one... Lastly, Delrin is quite stiff and not terribly hard to machine to thin wall - he may have made a collet for it, but given the number of standardized bearing OD's, I fathom it's probably not terribly costly to make a few on his own lathe, then use keyway cutter or wire edm slots...
Great analysis. I'm also an ex-engineer (retired). Maybe the runout is out of roundness. I sometimes found when releasing a part from a 3 jaw chuck that you could end up with a triangular form. You can get a constant size when measuring with 2 point micrometers. However when spinning in a 2 point vee block you would see runout. The other end being remote from the chuck would have less distortion. Just my thoughts.
Why? If people can get away with a much cheaper carbon bike and still get a good ride because of a good BB whats so weird? Its not really a lipstick on a pig type of thing as much as you seem to be making it out to be.
Thanks PT seems like I need to add you H & Luescher to my list of friends as its all I can do to fit a BB90 to my Trek. Imagine spending £10k on a bike and then finding any of you or the others videos. Might have to just go back to walking as Running you find you need a particular designed shoe or you need orthotics etc etc.
Hambini could definitely market the "Hambini Orange". I would totally buy a BB in orange from him just so I could scream at people who ask me about it.
Your point at the end, "whether you need one is up to you"; how do you know if you need one? If you're racing, whether its bike racing or triathlon and you have a list of different potential products on which to spend your cash, where does one of these BB's fit on that list? Obviously its going to depend on how crap your current BB is but as a rule of thumb, how does one of these BB's compare to other potential additions to your steed.
I am missing the part about how these tolerances won't matter in a potato frame. Since this is a single unit, and the bearings are aligned with each other in reference to the surfaces in the shell and not the frame (as is the case in a lot of press fit bikes) the tight tolerances of this unit should have significant impact in sureness of bearing efficiency/longevity...right? This product is developed in reaction to poor alignment of bearings which is common in frames, this should align the bearings correctly, or am I missing something?
You are correct. The idea of this bottom bracket is that it help persuade the frame during installation such that your final bearing alignment will be decent.
A fair few mechanics that I know that refuse to fit Hambini BBs into customers frames. They often get stuck and can damage to frame when installing/removing them 😬
Great video. How would this compare with a Dura Ace BB in tolerances, bearings etc? Or is it just a "better design" for frames with imperfect tolerances? I gather pro teams favour Hambini BBs so if you have money & watts...
I don't know how it would compare to a standard Shimano BB in terms of tolerances - good question. I suspect that BB tolerances on Shimano parts (from Tiagra/Alivio up) will be worse than this, but still way better than the frame. A better BB isn't going to do anything (other than possibly have slightly longer lasting bearings) if the frame tolerances are bad.
So. The plumber did good, at a cost. Sounds like the best I could hope for, with Zappa singing 'Flakes' somewhere in the back of my mind. Well, my toilet went crazy yesterday afternoon The plumber, he said: Never flush a tampoon. This great information cost me half a weeks pay, and the toilet blew up later on the next day. We're millions and millions, and we're comin' to get ya. We're protected by unions, so don't let it upset ya. Keep up the good work, both of ya! :D
@@PeakTorque Just letting Zappa set the expectations about plumbers as a contrast against your review. It's all looking surprisingly good against that background. Any background, really.
My thoughts exactly. From my metalworking experience it is much easier to achieve close, repeatable tolerances on a CNC. Manual Lathes leave a lot of space for human error (slide spindle backlash, tool setup, dirty toolpost during tool changes, bad depth of cur during roughing or finishing etc.). You can also tell that this HAS in fact been manufactured on a CNC Lathe. If you look at the chamfers you can tell that they were cut with a small cutting edge. On a manual lathe you would use a angled lathe tool with one relatively long, continuous edge unless you want to re-angle your compound which requires an annoying amount of time to do precisely.
Could you not have set the whole thing up on centres (into the delrin plugs) and done your run out on that. Do you think the squareness of the bore (where the crank spindle goes) to the ODs (where the frame) goes might be an interesting measurement? I can't see how a CNC lathe can be disqualified compared to an old fashioned type lathe, because it is all in the support of the job and the wear in the machine. A programmer can allow for machine wear just as well as the manual turner?
First, start off with a 3 jaw chuck with worn-out jaws that taper out. Imagine sticking a straight rod through the center of a cone. The stock material will naturally teeter-totter about the line contact points. This will be your easiest bet to intentionally cause runout. Next, stick out the part as far as you can possibly stick out. The further away from the clamping point the more leverage the cutting forces has to deflect the stock material. This will greatly aid in causing more runout. Rough and finish the inside dimensions. Then rough out all the OD features with a nice high-feed positive lead angle turning insert for that aggressive radial cutting force. Don't bother going back with a finishing tool. We're shooting for incredible amounts of runout. For additional runout, we can install an expanding mandrel or arbor fixture we used from a previous job but don't bother at all about how it goes back into the spindle. Thus naturally we can assume there will runout on the fixture. Now every part that now goes on said fixture will have at least this amount of runout 'imprinted' on to it. In summary. There's a lot of reasons why one side is nice and the other is out. What exactly took place isn't something we can determine without looking at how Hambini's fixturing and machining parameters. I'm don't know how thin the aluminum piece is but I don't think it's farfetched to think something happened during the press of the bearings as well.
I think the accuracy of the outer surface is unimportant as you indicated. The main benefit of this structure is having both bearings mounted into one very rigid, very concentric and straight piece of aluminium instead of them being in cups separately pressed into a not-so-accurate and also quite flexible bore molded into a carbon fiber frame. With this arrangement the bearings are rigidly held in near perfect alignment so the bad tolerances of the bottom bracket bore in the frame don't matter as long as the sleeve is held reliably. On earlier carbon frames they used a machined aluminium sleeve bonded to the bb bore into which the bearings are either pressed or mounted in threaded cups which achieves the same good alignment as the Hambini construction and eliminates the sloppy tolerances of carbon fiber from affecting bearing alignment. I have two carbon frames, both the old style with a bonded aluminium bb sleeve, one with threaded cups, one with pressed in bearings. Both have been ridden for thousands of kilometers on the same bearings, no creaking or other problems. I think the fundamental mistake is mounting the bearing cups directly into a molded carbon fiber bore, it's simply not accurate and rigid enough to act as a bearing mounting surface. Of course the modern way is cheaper and slightly lighter but in my opinion it's a poor design. What this product does is correct a critical flaw in the frame design by essentially converting it back into the older, better, though more expensive and slightly heavier, system.
1:19 And what do you think Hambini has done... The BB's he sell are copies of BBinfinite. He's even copied the instruction videos to the T.... Slap a Hambini sticker on it and call it a day. That's what the aerospace engineer has learned, or not learned. The reviews are most likely handpicked by himself, like he deletes all negative comments from his youtube section as well. Pretty sad that so many people believe in his bullshit.
Paid £175 for mine. Flawless for the last twelve months. I stick 1800w through bracket at some point though sprint. Never been a problem with this bracket.
@Red Lobster Skull pity I can't send you a screenshot from my garmin you prick. Silver medalist individual pursuit. 4th kilo. 5th points race. East Midlands sprnt pursuit road race champion . Gent 6 rider. Expert 250 mx rider. Pro jet ski racer. Midlands bodybuilder. Do one you non achiever.
@FITNESSOVER45 just a sprint peak. What's the laughing memes for? You've no idea who i am. Obviously what's impossible for you isn't for me. You're obviously questioning whilst not knowing who I am.
I'll send you the cash later!
HaterrrrrrrRRRRRZZZZ
Hambini has spoken!
😂😂 you made me scare my cat I had to laugh out so hard 😂😂
Ugandan dollars or Cayman banks only please.
@@PeakTorque I've made a note.
Congrats to Hambini for making the world's most tightly toleranced fleshlight. I'm sure his mother is proud.
I think Hambini would approve of this comment
I'll be honest, I'm a metric man but watching a lot of This Old Tony. Had to convert microns back into thousandths to picture it.
Those that mean that Hambini is a (fleshlight) mother....?
@@davidmarshall2399 you can picture thousandths?
@@c.j.burtwell8430 not in an absolute sense, but relatively when talking about tolerances.
I didn’t think 5 year olds were capable of such engineering marvel. Well done! ^_^
Edit: maybe the video was too short for some of your Hambinites. Some more detail - This BB is by no means a feat of engineering, it's just a tube with 4 toleranced and concentric diameters. However, it is very well made. It will be orders of magnitude better than a carbon BB shell in terms of diameter control and concentricity. Concentricity is the key to bearing life, low drag, and being kind to the spindle. Such as the standards we're subjected to in this sport, we appear to be crowing over something normal and just well made.
Do i need one? No. Fortunately my bikes' BB shells are well controlled and I've never had any problems with the plastic 2 piece stock options (either Shimano or gxp). One is still original from 2017! If you 'need' this BB to correct a bad frame, consider your frame choice or warranty options.
Negatives. Not many but if your frame is *really* bad and is too tight on it's shell, pushing this in is quite intrusive. You need to be aware of the hoop stress you're imparting on the frame's fibres. You don't want it to ream it's way in.
Disclosure: Mr Hambini did not know i was making this video. Joe (China Cycling) sent me it for some basic QC.
@Peak Torque Surprised you didn't use Dr instead of Mr
Good to know! 👍
Sometimes, just being very well-made is a feat all in itself.
There was also insufficient PowerPoint
Your clickbait title is very misleading. Sounds like his customers are satisfied. For all we know your measurement tools could be out of spec.
Bravo to Peak Torque for showing us the Geometric Tolerances (GD&T properly as well as his inspection setup for measuring those features (total runout). As a manufacturing/ machining person i appreciated that. Well done!
They say you can judge a man by the roundness of his hole
WeirdChamp
Pog comment
and the wholeness of his round
I like engineers checking engineers. So tired of the marketing hyperbole.
This is just a different kind of marketing 👍🏾
This is also just marketing, its just the kind that appeals to you. Explaining their tolerances to justify pricing around 8x ($200) the normal BB is marketing as much as shimano mass producing a pretty good bb for $30 and sponsoring MVDP
@@zachcalton3199 you think MVDP is running a 30$ BB ?
@@janeztomazic5546 no, and while my comment didn’t make the distinction super clear, I didn’t say that. There are many ways to market. Sponsoring the fast guy and getting brand in front of eyes, and making people pick the shimano bike with whatever bb is in there, is just as much marketing as making UA-cam campaigns explaining how your BB is 10-50 microns more accurately manufactured in exchange for an 800% price increase
@@zachcalton3199 if you are talking about hambini BB, only bearings are worth 100USD and its not only microns is also the quality and stiffness, I have the BB30 one and am not sorry I bought it.
I ll always take the quality of product over the "fast guy has it"
It’s interesting how we are so "accommodating" with tolerances and quality in general when comes to a €/$10K bicycle, yet we demand much stricter tolerances on equivalent priced vehicles like motorbikes, or indeed anything else... it’s time so called "premium" bicycle manufactures get their quality up to same level as their marketing and sales. Kudos to @Hambini for keeping it real…
or perhaps stop selling them at a price that is not even close to being representative of the product
Take notice Specialized.
Maybe because of scale of production?
Because I’m sure that the demand for bike parts are as high as motorbikes and cars. I’m sure that everyone needs a road use bicycle as much as they need their car.
Look at F.P.Journe’s dial, Rolexes’ hands. So much for “premium” BS
@@87togabito given the global climate disaster everyone DOES need a bicycle and not their car...
It's better if we saw a Chris King or other high end BB to compare with the Hambini, nice opinion and review 👍
BB Shootout!
I must commend Peak Torque for this type of review. We are usually bamboozled by buzz words from the bike industry but this is quite raw, hard facts presented. Really good, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
His review is flawed. I explained in the comments above whether you understand the engineering counterpoint or not.
@@lukewalker1051 how is it flawed. cant find your comment...
Henceforth please show your calculations on ruling paper with a Princess Blanket watermark, thank you.
Material: Sent a sample to contacts at an undisclosed US government location in a desert and they confirmed that it is not a standard ASTM aluminium alloy. It seems to be a bespoke alloy found in certain turbine engine structures. Aerospace industry refers to it as "Hambinium."
Brilliant
But did they not spell it "Hambinum"? And thus, pronounce it differently? ;)
When a british person says "really really good" or "pretty damn good" that is the equivalent of any other person saying it's best in class or the best you can find etc.
Yeh we're a miserable bunch most of the time. That's why i left
The British compliment is "that's not bad".
@@peterlucas5634 the north german one: "it´s quite ok."
It's far beyond "not to bad" indeed
or an American saying "It's awesome!! whilst wearing back to front baseball cap and sporting a manicured beard....
You and Joe realize hambini is going to be even more insufferable now (if that were possible)
It's kind of expensive but if its only made one by one at different specs it will cost alot. As a machinist I can say the problems comes when you do the backside, the first operation is machine the outside an inner diameters. After that it must be flipped to do the last bearing surface after straighting it up with a indicator. And also soft backs is needed not to get marks.
Great info. Cheers
Use a collet chuck. Better repeatability and gentler on the part.
@@web1bastler or run an sdz back boring bar and do it all in one chucking.
9:05 I remember in one of his video (about open cycle triying to sue him), that Hambini said 0.05mm was what he would expect from bicycle manufacturers in term of concentricity tolerance
The Hambini BB solved my BB issues. No more creaking or binding. Significantly extended lifespan compared to the individual cup BBs I had used. Great customer service. None of the previous BB's lasted for more than four months. I'd gladly buy another Hambini BB for my other bikes.
Hambini is not cheap and you have not stated what 4 months means ?
@@BantonOrg this is non-sensical
@@BantonOrg 4 months means 4 months yah knob. Not sure what you arent understanding...
@@OptimusSatanas 1,000 miles per day or sat in the shed doing nothing. Also, you threw an insult while being unsure. Don't do that if you don't want to look stupid.
@@BantonOrg The unsureness has to do with your not having a valid argument. Its not due to any deficit on my end lil pal.
Can't wait to put this perfect BB in my Potato carbon frame.
bruh i spat my coffee everywhere (use to think my Cervelo was the lick)
now even with a visual inspection i can see whats wrong with my frame
I think you are saying it's "The Lick", not a sh@* bag! The four dislikes are from GCN, cycling news and Cervelo
So, it’s the Lick!? Thanks for bringing us the most polite and measured language on a Hambini review, ever🤬😖
I can only agree with this comment. When I play a Hambini vid my wife scouls and strongly suggest I watch something more edifying....😀
Hambini performance plumbing! He makes a great product like the major manufacturers could have done but were too lazy.
I suspect it's more about greed than laziness
@Nick Maclachlan I agree with everything you say after your first sentence:
"It's neither really."
This is where I disagree: if bicycle prices were reasonable for the quality of engineering encountered, I would - like you - discount the greed motive. With them being where they are - a "good" bike costing as much as a motorbike, and a top-of-the-line one costing as much as a small car, I really have an issue with dismissing greed as a cause of some of the issues.
High quality engineering such as in the defence industry, aerospace or F1 areas, is a costly business. Machine setup requires time consuming care by skilled operators, the post machining QC checks (not statistical probability but individual examination) is time consuming and costly, and reject rates can be high.
It's really easy to make a handful of very expensive things. A lot harder to make lots of relatively expensive things... I don't think people really appreciate this about mass manufacture.
If Hambinis BB isn’t the shiz, would those of other manufacturers be specks on the anus of humanity by comparison?
Would need a log scale
Absolutely. Still waiting for bronze bushings to be the latest and greatest setup. The consumer is gullible. Hambini cuts through marketing hype!
The Science of Hambini.
I have a Hambini BB in my Cervelo R5 2016. I had to have a custom one as Cervelo take a rather cavalier approach to standards. Hambini got me to measure my frame and the BB went in perfectly. It’s spins like silk even after quite a few thousand miles ( certainly more than 7,000) it’s brilliant and I think it’s worth the money.
Please don’t talk ill of Cervelo. They are the ducks nuts. Please delete the comment immediately. #dontyouknowtheyrewatchingus?
@@topher.m I absolutely love my Cervelo R5. The third R5 frame I’ve had. The first I crashed and broke so I bought a replacement. That was out of alignment and Cervelo gave me a replacement. That has been superb. Unfortunately although the BB shell is round and concentric it is undersized. Certainly makes it difficult to insert or remove an off the shelf replacement. I have found the Hambini BB solves this problem. I’ve done over 21,000miles on this frame and probably over 10,000 on the previous two. I can’t say I’m the fan of the more recent Cervelo disc bikes. I didn’t like the changes they mad to the geometry. Probably suits some people.
@@topher.m Cervelo, overpriced crap
@@mixalis6168 Agreed, ill never own a sir Velo again.
"reviewed by a five year old maritime engineer "
I’d rather buy that than a Rapha shirt 😂 nice work lads 🤘🏻
realy incredibile the amout of large and extra large cycling gear that on for sale
If you're buying your own Rapha....as opposed to someone to whom Rapha gives the stuff ...
Would love to see you do similar testing on hubshells (are DT swiss, for example, better than others... both exotic/expensive like WI, CarbonTi, i9 and standard/cheap like Bitex, Novatec)
I would say you have it backwards on the machining side of things. Judging by the distribution of high and low spots on the side with the flange, considering you have more than one per revolution, this is the side that has been fixed in the lathe. The fixture that has been used caused a slight deformation while the part is turned.
Deflection on the free end of a part usually causes a taper...
This is just an armchair observation of course.
Love what hambini is doing, even though he might be harsh at times.
I find him to be pretty coarse which left me thinking him to be a bit of a twat initially but I have since warmed to him, and realised that it's just who he is and isn't really meant maliciously.
Always nice to see someone pass peer review so well
interesting, maybe do a cooperation? Scare the big brands into better quality?
People don't care about actual quality, they just want a bunch of Specialized engineers spewing marketing copy.
@@drunken_moose I'm not sure they *want* that. It's just become the norm.
@@PeakTorque People care about quality until it gets in the way of features or rock bottom price. When most brands have their frames produced under contract by a third party, it's no surprise.
If it's 10 times the cost of an OEM-spec BB, you've got the choice of running the Hambini into the ground or having regularly refreshed bearings.
A PF cup is typically plastic, so you've got something slightly compressible between the cartridge bearing and the not-perfectly-round shell in the frame. This could mean the deviations in the shell don't distort the bearing too much, whereas with the alu body of the Hambini, you've got a fight between shell, BB body and bearing and one of them needs to give way. Yes, a compressible bearing carrier means you might get some interesting torque across each bearing that translates into additional axial load, but is that going to wear the OEM BB more or less than 10 times faster than Hambini's BB?
@@EmyrDerfel a properly machined bottom bracket would not cost 10x to mass produce. That's just bullshit
5 yr old punk can run a lathe, that's for sure mate.
I'd give a score of 10 in the over-engineered scale - a bit like buying a Ferrari for the school run.
thats the point
the amount of money wasted making that thing that concentric/accurate is so pointless and making it cost so unbelievably more than it needs to be. frankly im surprised it doesnt cost more. I would never recommend buying this. what I would buy from him is a special made BB where your frame is flawed and requires a special made one. and for something like that having a BB made that specific has more purpose. because if you want a BB that isnt gonna creek, in a flawed frame, its going to take someone with that level of detail. (I am a machinist by trade for 20 years)
"the frame you're pushing it into will be a bag of shite". One thing at a time I think.
For an endless supply of bottom brackets just paper mache a loo role and then use a black wax crayon to waterproof it. Thank me later
Instructions unclear, I'm now out of toilet paper
This is the real reason people were mass buying toilet paper
careful or cannondale will sue you for patent infringement
@@gaveltron 😂👍
Hello hambini fans!
Not loud enough. I think you meant
HELLO HAMBINI FANS
@@hutchmusician ... and welcome
Part of me wonders about doing a roll out test on the interior surface of the bearing that would contact the crank spindle ...
The tolerances bearings are made to are incredibly tight. Its not likely that there will be any issues there. Now a test of the crank spindle- that could be interesting.
If you didn't watch this to hear what you wanted to, then it's a fair take on the part itself. I'm happy you didn't endorse it's application, since the frame dimensions dictate the solution. If you can't correct the bore in the frame, then any bottom bracket will work as poorly as the next.
the BB is well made... the frame industry is rubbish. I'll stick to BSA threaded.
Why can't this also be measured after mounting on a fixed 24mm shaft to include errors related to bearing fit etc.? You've only measured the outer surfaces of the piece in this video, we have no idea how the interior surfaces relate.
Also, no idea how this behaves when installed in a typical frame. Need to measure bearing drag before and after.
I bought Hambini bb for my cannondale bb30a it was brilliant. Other bbs wouldn't even fit properly . Kept it when I sold frame just incase
Exactly how many more percents faster, compliant, aero, stiffer, feels good and lighter is it than other BBs?
Zero
From what I can gather after watching hours and hours of hambini the actual savings is probably single to low double digit watts at any sort of achievable speed, but its mostly about not getting creeking noises and to get the BB bearings to last for the designed lifetime.
I wish my brain worked like this. I'm going to buy a $400 Velobuild frame and stick one of these in it. Thanks Hambini!
Worked like what? He's only using a dial guage and V-block to measure a cyclindrical object. It's hardly rocket science.
Far less swearing than a Hambini video, I only counted 1 "shite".
Great BB though, I may have to get one.
Refreshing to see that hambini knows what he's talking about! Especially as he gives out so much flak... Good video
Rightfully so for dishout out flak for substandard products being sold at eye watering levels. Cervelo anybody?
The ZTTO company went a step further with the Threaded BB 386, BB30 with double O rings to make sure any vibrations are not amplified by the carbon BB area. They actually did a very good job "copying the gasket design :o)" at making not only installation super easy as both sides press in together by threading them slowly but the simpler design of 2 pieces means pressing it in leaves less damage and less forces applied to the BB carbon area cup faces versus the one piece Hambini or Wheels Manufacturing ones.
I had Dura Ace, then Wheels Mfg, and now a Hambini BB in my Canyon bike. The Hambini was absolutely noticeable in making my frame a bit stiffer when pedaling at higher power. My bike also doesn't creak anymore.
Thanks for this excellent video!!! My faith in Hambini was not misplaced...
I think you and Hambini are a perfect team. Your reserve and his.....mmmmm..."Eloquence" seems a match made in heaven. it would be a interesting to see some collaborations.
Thanks for the excellent review. Do you think this device can be used to check the alignment and roundness of the BB in newly-manufactured carbon frames? Regards, Gerrard.
G's running 3T robot made frames now; curious to see if Italian bots make a better hole than Chinese children...
And to think that bb was removed from a frame already and the tolerance is that good , wondering if you got one that was not used how perfect it could be , hambini is the shit man ,🤔😜
no score marks, looks as new.
However, hard to score metal with carbon fibre anyway.
So, it could have deformed from install and removal.
So the only “negative” is that it’s TOO good! The lick 👅
Well, there's the price!
Love the plumbing truck
click bait title. booo. i was expecting a genuine roasting when reading the title
Ha you fell for it, hambini bb is the best
Maybe. But the BB shell play a big role too. Isnt that what @hambini is famous for? To fix issue with the shell.
Hambini BB is the one I would buy. Exelent engineering! Nothing comes close.
Even have the mic holder. Nice
Any chance you can make a similar video testing an off the shelf shimano equivalent?
Forgive me if you have already done this, I had a quick look but couldn't find it.
Why not include BB Infinite to have some comparison?
Second this
BBInfinite is a cheaper alternative, and they have more stock. I also want to know how good their stuff is.
I’m going to order a Bbinfinite bb because Hambini doesn’t make a BB86 for SRAM DUB.
@@J88HNT in some of his videos he explained the reason: since the bb86 shell is 41mm wide, and the DUB spindle is 29mm, only 12mm are left for the metal sleeve and the bearing itself, which means that both of them will be undersized and prone to failure. Such cranks are better suited for BB shells with larger bores, like PF30, BB386evo, T47, etc. that can take wider bearings and will have more room for a thicker and stiffer BB sleeve.
@@c4p3fi3rr we know the reason why, but there are always having a "BUT". LOL
Hambini is zero tolerance guy! Lol.
May I know the fit tolerance for carbon frame's body shell? (Roundness n Diameter tolerance)
This video goes to prove how many modern cyclists have completely lost the plot about cycling!
really helpful info for us bike noobs trying to make good consumer choices! Honestly so fucking grateful. I like to do my research before spending big on tools. been thinking a trek carbon sport, but im probs getting a look bike now. Amazing reviews !
Treat yourself to a decent vernier and clock. Especially a new pair of verniers ffs.
You can’t hide your admiration for the bb, yet at times can’t stop bowing to the Big Bike Brands cartel.
If you did not measure the bearing seats concentricity then what is the point? The inner surfaces are most likely not machined with the same cutting tool as the outer surfaces.
The real question is if the 2 inner races are machined in the same fixture, and what amount of tool holder flex there is.
And what is standard out of the box aluminum? My guess is that the alloy is 7075(2% magnesium).
Please cut down on the mr. actual engineer ethos. People will believe anything you say, but we will be collectively more stupid. Just like the bike industry in general.
Bearing concentricity is key, thank you.
Belinda must be proud.
Top review. Not bad engineering for a 5-year old.....
as an ex-aerospace engineer and still remembering few things, I suggest not using the V blocks on the two diameters that you are directly measuring the circular runout, then extending the results to measurement of assumed concentricity of a long cylindrical body - as the datum A really becomes those two surfaces (well not quite, as you know, since v-block will touch two points...). What can be done with this setup is by checking "cylindrical runout" on both press-fit OD's to the bores for the bearings as well. Checking the bores on the drop gauge should be easy enough... in this case, cylindrical runout will be just few circular runout measurements. However, you would need to clock the thing, check in few different places and record your highs/lows, can give you some idea on the actual concentricity of the two ends and may give you some clues if the part is total crap - in this case, I assumed not, since @Hambini appears to make the whole thing on the lathe in one setup. Another way to do this cheaply probably was to check the bores on v-block to see if they are good/crap, then if they are good, use those to put them between centers. Now, all this would have been way easier, proper equipment like a roundness checker should have been used - Taylor Hobson on that side of the pond makes a good one... Lastly, Delrin is quite stiff and not terribly hard to machine to thin wall - he may have made a collet for it, but given the number of standardized bearing OD's, I fathom it's probably not terribly costly to make a few on his own lathe, then use keyway cutter or wire edm slots...
Excellent info and a much better methodology. This was a heath Robinson setup i did with some few parts lying around. Cheers
Great analysis. I'm also an ex-engineer (retired). Maybe the runout is out of roundness. I sometimes found when releasing a part from a 3 jaw chuck that you could end up with a triangular form. You can get a constant size when measuring with 2 point micrometers. However when spinning in a 2 point vee block you would see runout. The other end being remote from the chuck would have less distortion. Just my thoughts.
That was a good spit-roasting. What's next?
Chinese frames! Send Peak Torque a Winspace frame to check tolerances. Send one to Luescher too.
Well that wasn’t knocked up on a 40 year old Colchester.
Well done Hambini
Before he started measuring I was sure he had found a faulty part and would start calling Hambini a C-U-Next-Tuesday.
The tolerance of the outside diameter is ridiculous. If he chose a more appropriate tolerance he could reduce the price by a lot.
thank goodness -I was hoping that this engineering hero did not fall from grace like Lance! BB infinite now needs to send in one of their units!
Lance didn’t fall nice try
From forst seconds, you made QC mistakes in measurements and tools used...back to school my friend..😅😅
From second word you have proven you either need to take typing class again, or spelling....back to school my friend
I hate how youtube algorithm is justifying my purchase.
I love it. My anonymous source - Joe from China Cycling.
U should've tested it against a few others costing much less, u should've also pushed the bearings out to check inner just to give a total review
I am quite amused that people buy high end, well made BBs to put in their mass produced, over priced, often poorly made, mass produced carbon frames.
Why? If people can get away with a much cheaper carbon bike and still get a good ride because of a good BB whats so weird? Its not really a lipstick on a pig type of thing as much as you seem to be making it out to be.
Calibration certs or it didn't happen
Impressive review, really eye opening and informative. Loving the detailed, in-depth technical assessment of this. Great stuff!
Thanks PT seems like I need to add you H & Luescher to my list of friends as its all I can do to fit a BB90 to my Trek. Imagine spending £10k on a bike and then finding any of you or the others videos. Might have to just go back to walking as Running you find you need a particular designed shoe or you need orthotics etc etc.
As you said at the end of the video, it's horses for courses. I normally have to find "economic solutions" rather than spending to victory
Hambini could definitely market the "Hambini Orange". I would totally buy a BB in orange from him just so I could scream at people who ask me about it.
Your point at the end, "whether you need one is up to you"; how do you know if you need one? If you're racing, whether its bike racing or triathlon and you have a list of different potential products on which to spend your cash, where does one of these BB's fit on that list? Obviously its going to depend on how crap your current BB is but as a rule of thumb, how does one of these BB's compare to other potential additions to your steed.
I am missing the part about how these tolerances won't matter in a potato frame. Since this is a single unit, and the bearings are aligned with each other in reference to the surfaces in the shell and not the frame (as is the case in a lot of press fit bikes) the tight tolerances of this unit should have significant impact in sureness of bearing efficiency/longevity...right? This product is developed in reaction to poor alignment of bearings which is common in frames, this should align the bearings correctly, or am I missing something?
You are correct. The idea of this bottom bracket is that it help persuade the frame during installation such that your final bearing alignment will be decent.
A fair few mechanics that I know that refuse to fit Hambini BBs into customers frames. They often get stuck and can damage to frame when installing/removing them 😬
and they probably don't bother to measure the holes of the bikes they are putting them into.
@@Hambini "mechanics".
Great review. I have a T47 from Hambini. It is great...gettitng a PF30 too....great products and this was a great review.
Great video. How would this compare with a Dura Ace BB in tolerances, bearings etc? Or is it just a "better design" for frames with imperfect tolerances? I gather pro teams favour Hambini BBs so if you have money & watts...
I don't know how it would compare to a standard Shimano BB in terms of tolerances - good question. I suspect that BB tolerances on Shimano parts (from Tiagra/Alivio up) will be worse than this, but still way better than the frame. A better BB isn't going to do anything (other than possibly have slightly longer lasting bearings) if the frame tolerances are bad.
Press fit is yuk but Hambini is the Shiz, bogs dollox and what more can you say! Think I am a customer soonest!
Hambini is the real fucking deal...
Nobody f*cks with Hambini ;)
IMPRESSIVE! 😎💯
So. The plumber did good, at a cost. Sounds like the best I could hope for, with Zappa singing 'Flakes' somewhere in the back of my mind.
Well, my toilet went crazy
yesterday afternoon
The plumber, he said:
Never flush a tampoon.
This great information
cost me half a weeks pay,
and the toilet blew up
later on the next day.
We're millions and millions,
and we're comin' to get ya.
We're protected by unions,
so don't let it upset ya.
Keep up the good work, both of ya! :D
Wow. No one can top this comment. Utterly confused by entertained.
@@PeakTorque Just letting Zappa set the expectations about plumbers as a contrast against your review. It's all looking surprisingly good against that background. Any background, really.
Imma spoil it. I got the BB30 Shimano one and mic'd it. It was perfect.
Your mic was out...
Just waiting for the Peak Torque / Fake Copy Hambini BB to drop. Save $$$$ . Ain't that the Far Eastern way?
Not hard to get tight tolerance on a CNC , it's probably held in a collet in stead of a chuck so you have more even pressure on the bar .
My thoughts exactly. From my metalworking experience it is much easier to achieve close, repeatable tolerances on a CNC. Manual Lathes leave a lot of space for human error (slide spindle backlash, tool setup, dirty toolpost during tool changes, bad depth of cur during roughing or finishing etc.). You can also tell that this HAS in fact been manufactured on a CNC Lathe. If you look at the chamfers you can tell that they were cut with a small cutting edge. On a manual lathe you would use a angled lathe tool with one relatively long, continuous edge unless you want to re-angle your compound which requires an annoying amount of time to do precisely.
Yeah boy, just what I need after my ride
Could you not have set the whole thing up on centres (into the delrin plugs) and done your run out on that.
Do you think the squareness of the bore (where the crank spindle goes) to the ODs (where the frame) goes might be an interesting measurement?
I can't see how a CNC lathe can be disqualified compared to an old fashioned type lathe, because it is all in the support of the job and the wear in the machine. A programmer can allow for machine wear just as well as the manual turner?
6:45 Just curious....what sort of machining process would produce 20x more) on the other??
First, start off with a 3 jaw chuck with worn-out jaws that taper out. Imagine sticking a straight rod through the center of a cone. The stock material will naturally teeter-totter about the line contact points. This will be your easiest bet to intentionally cause runout.
Next, stick out the part as far as you can possibly stick out. The further away from the clamping point the more leverage the cutting forces has to deflect the stock material. This will greatly aid in causing more runout.
Rough and finish the inside dimensions. Then rough out all the OD features with a nice high-feed positive lead angle turning insert for that aggressive radial cutting force. Don't bother going back with a finishing tool. We're shooting for incredible amounts of runout.
For additional runout, we can install an expanding mandrel or arbor fixture we used from a previous job but don't bother at all about how it goes back into the spindle. Thus naturally we can assume there will runout on the fixture. Now every part that now goes on said fixture will have at least this amount of runout 'imprinted' on to it.
In summary. There's a lot of reasons why one side is nice and the other is out. What exactly took place isn't something we can determine without looking at how Hambini's fixturing and machining parameters. I'm don't know how thin the aluminum piece is but I don't think it's farfetched to think something happened during the press of the bearings as well.
I think the accuracy of the outer surface is unimportant as you indicated. The main benefit of this structure is having both bearings mounted into one very rigid, very concentric and straight piece of aluminium instead of them being in cups separately pressed into a not-so-accurate and also quite flexible bore molded into a carbon fiber frame. With this arrangement the bearings are rigidly held in near perfect alignment so the bad tolerances of the bottom bracket bore in the frame don't matter as long as the sleeve is held reliably.
On earlier carbon frames they used a machined aluminium sleeve bonded to the bb bore into which the bearings are either pressed or mounted in threaded cups which achieves the same good alignment as the Hambini construction and eliminates the sloppy tolerances of carbon fiber from affecting bearing alignment. I have two carbon frames, both the old style with a bonded aluminium bb sleeve, one with threaded cups, one with pressed in bearings. Both have been ridden for thousands of kilometers on the same bearings, no creaking or other problems. I think the fundamental mistake is mounting the bearing cups directly into a molded carbon fiber bore, it's simply not accurate and rigid enough to act as a bearing mounting surface. Of course the modern way is cheaper and slightly lighter but in my opinion it's a poor design. What this product does is correct a critical flaw in the frame design by essentially converting it back into the older, better, though more expensive and slightly heavier, system.
1:19 And what do you think Hambini has done... The BB's he sell are copies of BBinfinite. He's even copied the instruction videos to the T....
Slap a Hambini sticker on it and call it a day. That's what the aerospace engineer has learned, or not learned.
The reviews are most likely handpicked by himself, like he deletes all negative comments from his youtube section as well. Pretty sad that so many people believe in his bullshit.
Paid £175 for mine.
Flawless for the last twelve months.
I stick 1800w through bracket at some point though sprint. Never been a problem with this bracket.
@Red Lobster Skull pity I can't send you a screenshot from my garmin you prick.
Silver medalist individual pursuit.
4th kilo.
5th points race.
East Midlands sprnt pursuit road race champion . Gent 6 rider. Expert 250 mx rider. Pro jet ski racer. Midlands bodybuilder. Do one you non achiever.
@FITNESSOVER45 just a sprint peak. What's the laughing memes for? You've no idea who i am. Obviously what's impossible for you isn't for me. You're obviously questioning whilst not knowing who I am.
@@madplanet3351 Is it Ronnie Pickering?