These are just 911's that buyers have always wanted and that Porsche should've always aimed to provide. But it's easier to make these "pure" versions in limited numbers, jack the prices up, and make a huge margin off the uber-rich.
These pure cars have high CO2 emissions. That must be a significant cost for Porsche. The reason Porsche can sell the GT3 is because the Taycan sells well. It's a sad reality, but we have to accept it.
Given the state of the roads here, and the no tolerance approach to traffic offences here in Sydney, I heard on this review everything I needed to know if I was lucky enough to be able to afford one of these, and a stealth Dakar would be my wheels of choice. Brilliant video and great journalism, thank you guys.
People don't really realise that those "limited edition" are quite large production still in today's world and fit pretty much close to the demand there is. Think back 996RS approx 650ex, 997RS gen1 1300ex, gen2 1400ex, 4.0 600ex... and then nowadays GT3RS are 5/6k ex, normal GT3 are 9/10k ex and those are limited to 1963ex or 2500ex for the Dakar. These are big numbers because the previous cars stay in the market and contribute to an augmentation of the global supply for a product that is getting very similar to the previous one. A lot more people have more money compare to 15years ago but market could get saturated pretty soon with all those models. Or the lower and basic GT3 will plunge for the normal of us and those will only be trusted by the top tier collectors.
I had the privilege to be a passenger in an S/T at Knockhill on a Porsche Club GB trackday for several laps and the owner wasn't shy with it. Absolutely stunning car and a memory that will sit with me for years. Thank you for this great video. Just a question - At 7:31 in there looks to be a huge tear in the leather in the rear compartment? -oops.
The S/T is much more special than the Dakar, it is top 992 period right now. A Speedster or a GT2 RS could give it a run for its money. The S/T will hold its value the best out of all of them
I don't know why everyone keeps saying the GT3 touring is harsh? I drive it almost everyday and as long as you keep the damper setting in standard, it's plenty fine
Harry said it was too harsh and I believe that. Different people have different perceptions of what is acceptable. For me the 718 GTS 4.0 was too harsh, but the base 992 was great and refined
I drive a 718 GT4 daily. Carbon buckets, carbon ceramic brakes. Any reviewer on here would tell you that this car with those options is too harsh, uncomfortable and unnecessary for everyday driving. But I do it and I love it. I’d probably make it more hardcore if I could. Ultimately it depends what you are looking for. I like to drive a car that feels like a go kart and sounds great, it’s a fun experience every time I get in it. Not after a comfortable quiet ride.
Looks like you are the first reviewer who actually talks about clutch , I have ST clutch and flywheel installed in my touring and put about 3k miles so far. It’s not easiest clutch to live with , it’s loud ( like disposal with bolts), much harder to start moving from standing but it’s amazing when you really on it , revés so fast . Also on the downshift you have to revematch perfectly otherwise your wheels can get locked (revés drops so fast ) All I can say : I absolutely love it , it’s such an experience non of other car delivers, but a lot of wealthy guys who got ST will be surprised how not easy it is to drive and how much replacement clutch will cost 😂
I drive emergency response 4x4 during Canadian winters in case other emergency services are dispatched during a snow storm , my vehicles are usually 6.4 L Dodge Hemi 4x4 pickup plows but this Dakar model would make a great winter commute vehicle for when i get called into work during the worse winter conditions. Cheers.🖖👽👾
Lovely cars. But realistically, way over-powered to legally enjoy on the road. “Finding the limits of grip” no doubt means triple figure speeds. Just buy a manual MX5 if you want to have fun on the road 😁
@@sanketsinha9488 the CGT had a unique clutch; correct operation was to fully release the clutch and ensure the car was rolling forward before applying any throttle. The S/T is a normal clutch and doesn’t require this kind of special operation
@@TheGreekCarGeek The S/T isn't a normal clutch it is a triple disk set-up very similar to a race car, with a very small diameter and like a carrera GT, difference is CGT is carbon material while this is organic like a more traditional clutch. Think Tilton 5,5 race clutch type if you want to look at what it looks like.
Certainly the best 992s by a long chalk (as far as I can tell - not driven either, sadly). Would love one of each, but the S/T is oddly specced as a road car - not just the tyres, but also the fitment of a cage? That's a load of useable space denied to you right there. On the other hand, I think the S/T is the best loooking 911 since the 997.2 GT3RS and streets ahead, looks-wise, of the 911R. Although inside, it might be a different story... As to the rest of it - modern dampers, brilliant steering, light weight, appropriate gearing, LWFW, LSD, carbon -backed sports seats - all retro-fitted to my 997.1 for waaay less money. I'm kinda envioius of the extra 140 bhp and 1500 rpm that the S/T has, but it keeps me out of gaol...
It'll have anti stall, so you'll be able to use that for hill starts if you want to. But it's basically nonsense. You're not going to wear the clutch out faster because it has a LWFW when using a little throttle to start like you might in a 911 with a dual-mass flywheel..
I'm a 68 year with both of my cars having sticks, an 07 Cayman S and a 17 Fiesta ST and O % chance I would buy a car with a flywheel like the 911 ST. Adding a small amount of performance to a street car that is already too fast for the street? Doesn't make sense to me.
One is for very special occasions and only for just pure drive and have the best experience and exclusivity. Is the Best 911 Porsche has done together with the R version. Dakar is something we didnt expected, Best car to travel 2 persons in a playful car with affordable limits like no other car does. This two models and the turbo manual model makes Porsche 911 Brand be the dream of sports car, so Porsche keep this exclusivity if you want to keep in the Gold Podium. How time to a 3.6 naturaly aspirated 911T and there you have it, you are The Best.
And ST is Andreas GT depertment and his personal 911 dream I guess Dakar is not GT dep. But they put lots of hours and testing. We keep dreaming on Porsche🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
Are you sure you dont give it gas it feels so slow starting to roll i watched a lot of videos about this car and first time i heard this can some one please let me know before i really ruin my clutch caus ive been using it on almost every start on 1.5 rpm starts to help me go a bit faster 😬
I dont agree with the Cup 2 comment for the ST. The Cup 2 are fine in the rain I use them daily and putting the 4s on an ST is so wrong because it numbs the car, specifically the steering feel. You adore and praise the chassis and steering feel so much but you ignore that you have the tires to thank for most of the work. Yes the ST is not a track only car but its not a grocery getter either, keep the 4s away from these special cars, the Cup 2 isnt even the most aggresive track tire anyway.
I think re the ST, the 991.1 R and the 996 RS (and to be honest, the 996.2 vanilla GT3)are far more appealing as pure driver's cars than the ST, among the modern models. The ST is just a bit too tarty and the basic body shell too big and too GT-ish.
Respectfully, I don’t think that is correct. The ST, like most 992s, is more than the sum of its parts. Yes it’s bigger, but the feedback, the noise and the feel is exceptional. You mention some fantastic cars, but in my opinion the ST deserves to be held in the same regard.
@@flat6croc ST is not darty at all. The 992 GT3 and Touring are very darty however. My biggest complaint with my 992 GT3 was its road handling characteristics which were very darty, tramlined like crazy. With my ST it’s completely different, the uneasy overly active front end has been eliminated thankfully
Or get a 991.2 T in a manual throw in a ECU flash (Litchfield does one for a less then a 1000 pounds you get 460bhp and 430lbft) a more open exhaust and have the ultimate still smallish 911 hooligan for less than a third of those two.
No comparison. I've had two 991.2 T as well as a 992.1T - so I rate them. But there is nothing like the drama as that S/T passes 8K towards it's redline at 9K - the sound, the vibration, the zing and the rapidity of the rev - is on another level. I didn't really get the GT3 thing truly and then I experienced an uncorked S/T.... wow!
@@markanderson2451 I agree 911 S/T, 911R or even a GT3 touring area in the league of their own when to comes to the raw experience of driving a NA engine with a high redline. But let's face it those models are hard to get your hands on, without paying premiums. For someone who wants a manual 911 with performance that can thrill him a 991.2 T with an ECU flash is the way to go :)
I wish it were that easy to get a ‘GT-lite’ experience. I had a 992.1 GTS, and I tried everything to make it more exciting since I couldn’t get a GT allocation: tune (to 630hp/590tq), catless Ti/inconel exhaust, GT3 RS Weissach shift paddles… the 3L turbo is just not a GT car at the end of the day and never will be. Amazing car though!
@TheGreekCarGeek How about a 991.1 GTS in manual? Narrower shape and howelling NA engine and manual goodness and you can get it rear wheel drive. Now to track one down.
@@neillgowans4350 agreed, the last of the NA Carreras would be a good start for a budget GT3, but I have yet to drive both, let alone back to back, but I’d suspect you’d lose more in “experience” than you might think by how the two cars present on paper.
I would never select the Dakar for anywhere in summer season, it is rubbish. Nonsense. And I drive very built very unforgiving way lighter sportscar to our cottage dirtroads almost daily. I don't care. I want sportscar to be best at being sportscar, when the parts are quality, they can take a few km or miles of dirtroad and you can endure or embrace the beating on it. Would I drive our long and harsh Finnish winter in the Dakar, maybe but can it realisticly handle that. The S/T is perfect except clutch should be able to take abuse in any sportscar...
I get the sense that Porsche aimes to rival the likes of Ferrari in exclusivity. Porsche is already the winningest GT car brand that exists. Maybe now they are after the recognition and ultra rich segment of the market, as well?
But to have a car that is more alive on the road, why go for a Dakar when you can get all the lower grip and the ability to rev out with character in abundance via a older air cooled 911 for less?
Is it just me or is this presenter a doppelgänger of Angus Gardner - the Aussie rugby ref… Oh yeah, another Porsche limited edition - aren’t all 911’s limited until after at least a purchase (or two) of a VW/Audi in drag… ahem…Cayenne?
These are just 911's that buyers have always wanted and that Porsche should've always aimed to provide. But it's easier to make these "pure" versions in limited numbers, jack the prices up, and make a huge margin off the uber-rich.
These pure cars have high CO2 emissions. That must be a significant cost for Porsche. The reason Porsche can sell the GT3 is because the Taycan sells well. It's a sad reality, but we have to accept it.
@@zillionhorsepowerdo we?
Really enjoyed that. The folks on Rennlist have figured out a way to get the ST suspension programming uploaded to the normal GT3😉
Six decades on and the Porsche 911 just keeps improving.This a sports car like no other.
Dakar is the daily, the S/T is the weekender.
The Dakar is ideal for cold climates and cities with potholes! Love it.
The Porsche for Detroit and Afghanistan it appears😂
@@Fc-cb3tn or Central London
Given the state of the roads here, and the no tolerance approach to traffic offences here in Sydney, I heard on this review everything I needed to know if I was lucky enough to be able to afford one of these, and a stealth Dakar would be my wheels of choice. Brilliant video and great journalism, thank you guys.
What a combo, those two Porsche 911’s and the B4560 👌🏻
People don't really realise that those "limited edition" are quite large production still in today's world and fit pretty much close to the demand there is. Think back 996RS approx 650ex, 997RS gen1 1300ex, gen2 1400ex, 4.0 600ex... and then nowadays GT3RS are 5/6k ex, normal GT3 are 9/10k ex and those are limited to 1963ex or 2500ex for the Dakar. These are big numbers because the previous cars stay in the market and contribute to an augmentation of the global supply for a product that is getting very similar to the previous one. A lot more people have more money compare to 15years ago but market could get saturated pretty soon with all those models. Or the lower and basic GT3 will plunge for the normal of us and those will only be trusted by the top tier collectors.
Exactly. Just look at how many are for sale in the classifieds!
Oh to be one of Porsche’s favourite customers - I think I’d have to have both!
The 911 Dakar, maybe Porsche should call it the 911 GB Edition
I had the privilege to be a passenger in an S/T at Knockhill on a Porsche Club GB trackday for several laps and the owner wasn't shy with it. Absolutely stunning car and a memory that will sit with me for years. Thank you for this great video. Just a question - At 7:31 in there looks to be a huge tear in the leather in the rear compartment? -oops.
I’d take Tuthill’s 911k over either of them
The S/T is much more special than the Dakar, it is top 992 period right now. A Speedster or a GT2 RS could give it a run for its money. The S/T will hold its value the best out of all of them
I’m actually glad I can’t afford either because the choice would have been so hard between these two.
I don't know why everyone keeps saying the GT3 touring is harsh? I drive it almost everyday and as long as you keep the damper setting in standard, it's plenty fine
Harry said it was too harsh and I believe that. Different people have different perceptions of what is acceptable. For me the 718 GTS 4.0 was too harsh, but the base 992 was great and refined
I drive a 718 GT4 daily. Carbon buckets, carbon ceramic brakes. Any reviewer on here would tell you that this car with those options is too harsh, uncomfortable and unnecessary for everyday driving. But I do it and I love it. I’d probably make it more hardcore if I could. Ultimately it depends what you are looking for. I like to drive a car that feels like a go kart and sounds great, it’s a fun experience every time I get in it. Not after a comfortable quiet ride.
Depends on the road too
Brilliant vlog on 2 magnificent cars. S/T for me. Glad that you didn't discuss Manual V PDK, hats off. Oh, mine is a GT3ManualCS.
Looks like you are the first reviewer who actually talks about clutch , I have ST clutch and flywheel installed in my touring and put about 3k miles so far. It’s not easiest clutch to live with , it’s loud ( like disposal with bolts), much harder to start moving from standing but it’s amazing when you really on it , revés so fast . Also on the downshift you have to revematch perfectly otherwise your wheels can get locked (revés drops so fast ) All I can say : I absolutely love it , it’s such an experience non of other car delivers, but a lot of wealthy guys who got ST will be surprised how not easy it is to drive and how much replacement clutch will cost 😂
I drive emergency response 4x4 during Canadian winters in case other emergency services are dispatched during a snow storm , my vehicles are usually 6.4 L Dodge Hemi 4x4 pickup plows but this Dakar model would make a great winter commute vehicle for when i get called into work during the worse winter conditions. Cheers.🖖👽👾
It would be my 911 of choice for back Roads here In New Zealand, ultra fun on the gravel.
Super production, enjoyed that. Thank you 👍
Would love watch a comparison between the R and the ST
In print 000 Magazine did that in issue 29…too bad you need a subscription to order the issue though.
@@rgeorgek42 guess I need that issue 😅
I know the dakar would be a great winter car but I would be reluctant to take suck an expensive vehicle with the salted roads 😮
these vids deserve 4k uploads
Incredible video and deep analysis
…or add a towbar and buy a Macan GTS. Use the £100,000 plus change to buy your ideal race car and trailer it to the track?
Not everyone is into race track driving, I guess?
I would love a Macon GTS
best 911 combo!
Saw a Dakar on the MWay just outside Cannes a few weeks ago , looked awesome
Lovely cars. But realistically, way over-powered to legally enjoy on the road. “Finding the limits of grip” no doubt means triple figure speeds. Just buy a manual MX5 if you want to have fun on the road 😁
I’d love to sit down the pub and chew the fat about cars with you Dan. Great work as always!
I’m rather sure the S/T clutch doesn’t need to be operated like a CGT…
You are correct, no it doesn’t
He never said he didn't apply throttle to stop it from stalling, did he? It's a normal practice and applies to all cars which have anti stall
@@sanketsinha9488 the CGT had a unique clutch; correct operation was to fully release the clutch and ensure the car was rolling forward before applying any throttle. The S/T is a normal clutch and doesn’t require this kind of special operation
@@TheGreekCarGeek The S/T isn't a normal clutch it is a triple disk set-up very similar to a race car, with a very small diameter and like a carrera GT, difference is CGT is carbon material while this is organic like a more traditional clutch. Think Tilton 5,5 race clutch type if you want to look at what it looks like.
@@hadrienlf23 love the explanation, but I was referring to operation not materials or clutch type
Certainly the best 992s by a long chalk (as far as I can tell - not driven either, sadly). Would love one of each, but the S/T is oddly specced as a road car - not just the tyres, but also the fitment of a cage? That's a load of useable space denied to you right there. On the other hand, I think the S/T is the best loooking 911 since the 997.2 GT3RS and streets ahead, looks-wise, of the 911R. Although inside, it might be a different story...
As to the rest of it - modern dampers, brilliant steering, light weight, appropriate gearing, LWFW, LSD, carbon -backed sports seats - all retro-fitted to my 997.1 for waaay less money. I'm kinda envioius of the extra 140 bhp and 1500 rpm that the S/T has, but it keeps me out of gaol...
yeah I don't think the cage makes sense on the S/T, I don' think the US one has it
Cage isn't necessary, you can order one with comfort seats and without the cage.
Cage is a throwback to the 1969 S/T which was a race car
I'm pretty sure I followed a Dakar this morning (Monday 26/08/24) up the A326. I've never seen anything quite like it.
Glad to hear the prices are dropping.
Chris Martin doing car reviews now eh
Interesting to see the Dakar in a conventional colour and not Rothmans livery...👏
The Dakar is perfect for the state of UK roads.
For me Porsche 911 Dakar is just dream car, love it just perfect daily ❤❤
I heard a rumor about a forthcoming "Dakar Package" option for the 992 - any info?
Great cars, great video 🔥
Surely just engaging the clutch is slipping it? Also, what do you do for hill starts? Thanks great vid!
It'll have anti stall, so you'll be able to use that for hill starts if you want to. But it's basically nonsense. You're not going to wear the clutch out faster because it has a LWFW when using a little throttle to start like you might in a 911 with a dual-mass flywheel..
I'm a 68 year with both of my cars having sticks, an 07 Cayman S and a 17 Fiesta ST and O % chance I would buy a car with a flywheel like the 911 ST. Adding a small amount of performance to a street car that is already too fast for the street? Doesn't make sense to me.
I use the same clutch technique on my Passat Diesel 🤣
My mate has an S/T arriving around now. Can't wait till he comes out on a 100 Percent Drive so I can hang around it haha.
oh good, a video on two 911's noone can buy
One is for very special occasions and only for just pure drive and have the best experience and exclusivity. Is the Best 911 Porsche has done together with the R version.
Dakar is something we didnt expected, Best car to travel 2 persons in a playful car with affordable limits like no other car does.
This two models and the turbo manual model makes Porsche 911 Brand be the dream of sports car, so Porsche keep this exclusivity if you want to keep in the Gold Podium.
How time to a 3.6 naturaly aspirated 911T and there you have it, you are The Best.
Now
And ST is Andreas GT depertment and his personal 911 dream I guess
Dakar is not GT dep. But they put lots of hours and testing.
We keep dreaming on Porsche🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
You guys should face the camera more in the conversation - I felt a little left out
Are you sure you dont give it gas it feels so slow starting to roll i watched a lot of videos about this car and first time i heard this can some one please let me know before i really ruin my clutch caus ive been using it on almost every start on 1.5 rpm starts to help me go a bit faster 😬
I have both of these cars....
I dont agree with the Cup 2 comment for the ST. The Cup 2 are fine in the rain I use them daily and putting the 4s on an ST is so wrong because it numbs the car, specifically the steering feel. You adore and praise the chassis and steering feel so much but you ignore that you have the tires to thank for most of the work. Yes the ST is not a track only car but its not a grocery getter either, keep the 4s away from these special cars, the Cup 2 isnt even the most aggresive track tire anyway.
Try a spyder rs and get back to me. :)
The S/T & the GT3 Touring are so much alike,NOTHING is like the Dakar...
Bumpy B Road. Surprise, surprise!
I think re the ST, the 991.1 R and the 996 RS (and to be honest, the 996.2 vanilla GT3)are far more appealing as pure driver's cars than the ST, among the modern models. The ST is just a bit too tarty and the basic body shell too big and too GT-ish.
Respectfully, I don’t think that is correct. The ST, like most 992s, is more than the sum of its parts. Yes it’s bigger, but the feedback, the noise and the feel is exceptional. You mention some fantastic cars, but in my opinion the ST deserves to be held in the same regard.
@@flat6croc ST is not darty at all. The 992 GT3 and Touring are very darty however. My biggest complaint with my 992 GT3 was its road handling characteristics which were very darty, tramlined like crazy. With my ST it’s completely different, the uneasy overly active front end has been eliminated thankfully
Save ur money and just throw a pair of crappy tyres on a 2 wheel drive Carrera.
I'll take manual 991.2 GT3 Touring over those 2.....
Or get a 991.2 T in a manual throw in a ECU flash (Litchfield does one for a less then a 1000 pounds you get 460bhp and 430lbft) a more open exhaust and have the ultimate still smallish 911 hooligan for less than a third of those two.
No comparison. I've had two 991.2 T as well as a 992.1T - so I rate them. But there is nothing like the drama as that S/T passes 8K towards it's redline at 9K - the sound, the vibration, the zing and the rapidity of the rev - is on another level. I didn't really get the GT3 thing truly and then I experienced an uncorked S/T.... wow!
@@markanderson2451 I agree 911 S/T, 911R or even a GT3 touring area in the league of their own when to comes to the raw experience of driving a NA engine with a high redline. But let's face it those models are hard to get your hands on, without paying premiums. For someone who wants a manual 911 with performance that can thrill him a 991.2 T with an ECU flash is the way to go :)
I wish it were that easy to get a ‘GT-lite’ experience. I had a 992.1 GTS, and I tried everything to make it more exciting since I couldn’t get a GT allocation: tune (to 630hp/590tq), catless Ti/inconel exhaust, GT3 RS Weissach shift paddles… the 3L turbo is just not a GT car at the end of the day and never will be. Amazing car though!
@TheGreekCarGeek How about a 991.1 GTS in manual? Narrower shape and howelling NA engine and manual goodness and you can get it rear wheel drive. Now to track one down.
@@neillgowans4350 agreed, the last of the NA Carreras would be a good start for a budget GT3, but I have yet to drive both, let alone back to back, but I’d suspect you’d lose more in “experience” than you might think by how the two cars present on paper.
Strange Porsche did not use something like Continental SportContact 7 on the S/T. Weird considering what it is positioned as.
The Continental SportContact 7 would be the best choice, I plan to get them on my next car, I am going to ship them in from the UK to the US.
I would never select the Dakar for anywhere in summer season, it is rubbish. Nonsense. And I drive very built very unforgiving way lighter sportscar to our cottage dirtroads almost daily. I don't care. I want sportscar to be best at being sportscar, when the parts are quality, they can take a few km or miles of dirtroad and you can endure or embrace the beating on it. Would I drive our long and harsh Finnish winter in the Dakar, maybe but can it realisticly handle that. The S/T is perfect except clutch should be able to take abuse in any sportscar...
I get the sense that Porsche aimes to rival the likes of Ferrari in exclusivity. Porsche is already the winningest GT car brand that exists. Maybe now they are after the recognition and ultra rich segment of the market, as well?
But to have a car that is more alive on the road, why go for a Dakar when you can get all the lower grip and the ability to rev out with character in abundance via a older air cooled 911 for less?
Is it just me or is this presenter a doppelgänger of Angus Gardner - the Aussie rugby ref…
Oh yeah, another Porsche limited edition - aren’t all 911’s limited until after at least a purchase (or two) of a VW/Audi in drag… ahem…Cayenne?
What a complete bore all these 911s are!
ST for the win, Dakar is a gimmick.
No its just a parts bin special without RAS lol.
The Dakar is just marketing gone mad. Shame on those who buy it.
You do realise that at rest, you’re at 1g?!
Yes in the vertical Z plane- braking / cornering on other axis X/Y
Overrated
And yet you tested the Spyder RS with Cup2s in freezing cold...