I first found your videos exploring the differences between Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies. After watching those I was compelled to go back and watch your other genealogy videos. Incredible. Thank you so much for the many, many hours you have spent in study and production. And thank you for your very careful attitude evident throughout. I am sure I’ll be referring back to these for the rest of my life as long as they stay available.
I’ve been really enjoying these videos. I was wrestling with potential problems within Matthew’s genealogy and found your videos which explained the topic masterfully. You have a great channel here, and I wish you were still making videos. God Bless.
Matthew and Luke's genealogies are same with different names for the same person and that matthew deliberately and historically removed some while luke kept them and thats it, mathew 42 and luke 72 extra 20 persons excluded in mathew
I discovered your videos while searching for more information on Jeconiah, because I want to know more about Joseph's ancestry. Jonathan Cahn talks about the cursed lineage but doesn't mention the curse being broken. Thank you.
Could it be that Shealtiel and Zerubbabel are simply different people from the kings with the same names, i.e., just coincidence that they have the same names in the same order as the more famous kings?
I don’t think the inclusion of Shealtial and Zerribabel is “error” given that the LXX refers to Pediah as part of that lineage. Not to mention that skipping generations creates a moving target for the “father” (Error in quotes because I think what Luke is doing is intentional, even if not literally accurate) I also question whether the redemption of Coniah is a fair assessment, although I appreciate it is a view widely held. The bigger issue with Luke’s genealogy is the use of post-exilic naming conventions for pre-exilic people, and also the apparent patterns. I personally think Luke is giving an allusion to Zephaniah 12 with reference to David, Nathan, Levi, and Simeon. Those four individuals each represent Royalty, Prophecy, Priesthood, and Redemption. I think it’s intended to show a pattern across 70 generations of messianic expectations followed by sin and redemption. This culminates in Jesus who goes on to break the cycle and resist the temptations of the devil.
At the moment, Rhesa being included still confuses me. However, I believe Neri could have been the new name given unto Jeconiah after the curse reversal. The name “Neri” means “lamp of Jehovah”. The significance of the name aligns with the curse reversal by God. Other places you can see name changes in the Bible is when Jacob is renamed to Israel. There, at least, lies precedence. Thanks for the videos!
My opinion is Neri is another name for Jechoniah. It is not uncommon for Kings to have more than one name. For example, Uzziah was also known as Azariah. Rhesa, also, would be another name for Hananiah. Luke may have had access to a genealogy using alternative names.
@@carlosb8369levirate marriages+adoption is what makes those 2 genealogies , Mathew is about the blood line of Joseph i.e, actual biological fathers whereas luke is about the legal fathers list from Joseph through levirate marriages adoptions and many other unknown ways, but the thing is both are True genealogies of Joseph
There are some who do argue that the list of I Chronicles is not a comprehensive list (some of these same people argue that the genealogy given in Genesis is, mind you), which could give the "Rhea is the actual son of Zerubbabel" a little more plausibility. Though for Neri, could a argument be made that a "kinsman redeemer" situation occurred, hence the two fathers? If not, why? Great video as always.
Arguing for a Kinsman redeemer could only ever be a hypothesis because it is not stated in the text. I never like straying too far from the explicit reading of the text. I think unfortunately we sometimes just have to deal with these types of ambiguity and confusion in the text.
The two names that appear in Luke are are the same thing as different ones named Joseph. Jesus gets rights to throne via Joseph and Solomon bypassing the curse and gets untainted blood of David via Nathan and Mary
The curse was *NEVER* reversed. The Haggai passage that you mentioned *NEVER* takes place if you read the entire prophecy. What’s more, Zerubbabel was supposed to *COMPLETE* the Temple and *SIT* on it’s throne and *NEITHER happened*
These explanations dont justify two back facing genealogies passing thru the same person. The obvious and totally legal way of justifying this is by considering a man the son of both his natural father and his father in law thru marraige. Rhesa, for instance, is the son in law of Zerrubabel. Likewise, Joseph is the son in law of Heli, the father of Mary. Note that this method still carries the actual bloodline of David through to Mary. Think about it. Luke employs this rhetorical method to account for genetics thru eother daughter or son. This is not possible with Matthew , which rhetorically goes only thru the male.
1 I don't believe the curse of Jojakin was lifted. Zerubbabel never was King, only a govourner/vazal of Babel in Jerusalem. 2 Luke did not i.m.o. write a 'genealogy' , a succession of related names like you would write in myheritage.com. Luke wrote, this is my view at this moment (John Gill points to that), Jezus the son of allegedly Joseph Jesus the son of Eli, Jesus the son of Mattat etc, Jesus the son of Adam Jesus the son of God. Thus saying: Jesus is the son of man, the son (=future) of all the tribes, nations, people, so also the son/future of Zulu or whatever tribe on earth.
If you believe that there are mistakes in scripture, which is inspired by the Holy Spirit, then you are obligated by your assumption and own logic to question every other book therein. If Luke so casually made such and obvious mistake, then for good measure the book of acts would also have mistakes. This is absurd and sacrilegious. Do not say that you are a believer and follower of Christ Messiah and be so quick to say that there are errors in scripture. The word of God is perfect, God is perfect. Simply because we don't get it or understand the mysterious depths of God’s word doesn't mean that there are errors in it. We forget and I make a habit to remember the limitations of our human mind. Some mysteries are meant to be revealed through our pursuit of God's truth and understanding through wisdom and knowledge given ever so graciously to us from the Holy Father in heaven through the Holy Spirit. Just because it doesn't make sense to us doesn't mean scripture is wrong. God's ways are higher than our ways. God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts. Glory be to God Almighty who sits on HIS throne in heaven forever and ever, Amen.
You are a blasphemer! How dare you?? You & your heretical speculation, saying Luke invented things!! This is Mary's line in Luke & those 2 ancestors are in both because they were intermarrying!
I first found your videos exploring the differences between Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies. After watching those I was compelled to go back and watch your other genealogy videos. Incredible. Thank you so much for the many, many hours you have spent in study and production. And thank you for your very careful attitude evident throughout. I am sure I’ll be referring back to these for the rest of my life as long as they stay available.
You have made my day. Thank you so much for the kind words. Comments like this inspire me to create videos again.
I’ve been really enjoying these videos. I was wrestling with potential problems within Matthew’s genealogy and found your videos which explained the topic masterfully. You have a great channel here, and I wish you were still making videos.
God Bless.
This is the second method today asking me to return. Thank you so much for your kind words. I really should return
Matthew and Luke's genealogies are same with different names for the same person and that matthew deliberately and historically removed some while luke kept them and thats it, mathew 42 and luke 72 extra 20 persons excluded in mathew
I discovered your videos while searching for more information on Jeconiah, because I want to know more about Joseph's ancestry. Jonathan Cahn talks about the cursed lineage but doesn't mention the curse being broken. Thank you.
Glad you found your way here, Ruthie
Could it be that Shealtiel and Zerubbabel are simply different people from the kings with the same names, i.e., just coincidence that they have the same names in the same order as the more famous kings?
That's what I believe too.
Prove it.
I once watched a video that did prove it by deduction from various verses but it's too complicated to remember.
I don’t think the inclusion of Shealtial and Zerribabel is “error” given that the LXX refers to Pediah as part of that lineage. Not to mention that skipping generations creates a moving target for the “father” (Error in quotes because I think what Luke is doing is intentional, even if not literally accurate) I also question whether the redemption of Coniah is a fair assessment, although I appreciate it is a view widely held.
The bigger issue with Luke’s genealogy is the use of post-exilic naming conventions for pre-exilic people, and also the apparent patterns. I personally think Luke is giving an allusion to Zephaniah 12 with reference to David, Nathan, Levi, and Simeon. Those four individuals each represent Royalty, Prophecy, Priesthood, and Redemption. I think it’s intended to show a pattern across 70 generations of messianic expectations followed by sin and redemption. This culminates in Jesus who goes on to break the cycle and resist the temptations of the devil.
At the moment, Rhesa being included still confuses me. However, I believe Neri could have been the new name given unto Jeconiah after the curse reversal. The name “Neri” means “lamp of Jehovah”. The significance of the name aligns with the curse reversal by God. Other places you can see name changes in the Bible is when Jacob is renamed to Israel. There, at least, lies precedence. Thanks for the videos!
My opinion is Neri is another name for Jechoniah. It is not uncommon for Kings to have more than one name. For example, Uzziah was also known as Azariah.
Rhesa, also, would be another name for Hananiah. Luke may have had access to a genealogy using alternative names.
But how this answer if Luke genealogy traces them from Nathan? That's just not true, if it's just another name then the genealogy should be the same.
@@carlosb8369levirate marriages+adoption is what makes those 2 genealogies , Mathew is about the blood line of Joseph i.e, actual biological fathers whereas luke is about the legal fathers list from Joseph through levirate marriages adoptions and many other unknown ways, but the thing is both are True genealogies of Joseph
There are some who do argue that the list of I Chronicles is not a comprehensive list (some of these same people argue that the genealogy given in Genesis is, mind you), which could give the "Rhea is the actual son of Zerubbabel" a little more plausibility. Though for Neri, could a argument be made that a "kinsman redeemer" situation occurred, hence the two fathers? If not, why? Great video as always.
Arguing for a Kinsman redeemer could only ever be a hypothesis because it is not stated in the text. I never like straying too far from the explicit reading of the text. I think unfortunately we sometimes just have to deal with these types of ambiguity and confusion in the text.
The two names that appear in Luke are are the same thing as different ones named Joseph. Jesus gets rights to throne via Joseph and Solomon bypassing the curse and gets untainted blood of David via Nathan and Mary
The curse was *NEVER* reversed. The Haggai passage that you mentioned *NEVER* takes place if you read the entire prophecy. What’s more, Zerubbabel was supposed to *COMPLETE* the Temple and *SIT* on it’s throne and *NEITHER happened*
And yet Jeconiah still prospered in his life after being cursed…
@@ThefinalBedungle-xe6jb -“Jeconiah still prospered”- *ENLIGHTEN me* How did he
“prospered” in regards to his position *PRIOR* to curse?
Haha I’m still watching. This should be taught in churches. Not enough people understand things like this.
Thanks so much, Chima for your continual viewership.
And yes, I very much agree. I wish this sort of content was taught in Churches.
A man can dream
These explanations dont justify two back facing genealogies passing thru the same person. The obvious and totally legal way of justifying this is by considering a man the son of both his natural father and his father in law thru marraige. Rhesa, for instance, is the son in law of Zerrubabel. Likewise, Joseph is the son in law of Heli, the father of Mary. Note that this method still carries the actual bloodline of David through to Mary. Think about it. Luke employs this rhetorical method to account for genetics thru eother daughter or son. This is not possible with Matthew , which rhetorically goes only thru the male.
1 I don't believe the curse of Jojakin was lifted. Zerubbabel never was King, only a govourner/vazal of Babel in Jerusalem.
2 Luke did not i.m.o. write a 'genealogy' , a succession of related names like you would write in myheritage.com. Luke wrote, this is my view at this moment (John Gill points to that),
Jezus the son of allegedly Joseph
Jesus the son of Eli,
Jesus the son of Mattat
etc,
Jesus the son of Adam
Jesus the son of God.
Thus saying:
Jesus is the son of man, the son (=future) of all the tribes, nations, people, so also the son/future of Zulu or whatever tribe on earth.
If you believe that there are mistakes in scripture, which is inspired by the Holy Spirit, then you are obligated by your assumption and own logic to question every other book therein.
If Luke so casually made such and obvious mistake, then for good measure the book of acts would also have mistakes.
This is absurd and sacrilegious.
Do not say that you are a believer and follower of Christ Messiah and be so quick to say that there are errors in scripture.
The word of God is perfect, God is perfect.
Simply because we don't get it or understand the mysterious depths of God’s word doesn't mean that there are errors in it.
We forget and I make a habit to remember the limitations of our human mind.
Some mysteries are meant to be revealed through our pursuit of God's truth and understanding through wisdom and knowledge given ever so graciously to us from the Holy Father in heaven through the Holy Spirit.
Just because it doesn't make sense to us doesn't mean scripture is wrong.
God's ways are higher than our ways.
God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
Glory be to God Almighty who sits on HIS throne in heaven forever and ever, Amen.
You are a blasphemer! How dare you?? You & your heretical speculation, saying Luke invented things!! This is Mary's line in Luke & those 2 ancestors are in both because they were intermarrying!