The main pillars of the story - Samuel Hamilton and Lee - give you conversations filled with morals to remember for life. Steinbeck does a great job of slowly taking you with him to the times in Salinas Valley when things were simpler but people were as complex as they can be as ever. Good and Bad - you forget the difference between them as you read through this behemoth. You tend to slowly and sweetly realize that one cannot exist without the other. Steinbeck wrote it for his sons Tom and John so that they can learn the ways of the world through his eyes. East of Eden might be slow for some people's taste. But, I would suggest you to read/review Grapes of Wrath which is very pacy, more crisper and to the point compared to East of Eden and most importantly very hard hitting compared to East of Eden. Little more info: Samuel's character was loosely based on Steinbeck himself. Steinbeck used to love to make little things out of his creativity whether it be a wooden chair or a fancy articraft but never made it big. And Caleb is loosely based on one of John's kids. He was troublesome and John was trying really hard to teach this troubled kid the ways of life, morals etc while he was writing East Of Eden. Courtesy: Daily writing journals of Steinbeck while writing East of Eden. He used to write a letter every day to his editor after he finishes his day of writing (mostly 4x or 5x weekdays a week, few hours of writing everyday with weekends always for personal life), would suggest you to read it if you are more interested in learning about East of Eden.
Thank you for this very interesting background which will enhance my appreciation of this book. I’m about a third in and have fallen totally in love with this book. Ashamed that I didn’t come to it earlier!
I believe parts of the book were much more autobiographical than most people realize. Steinbeck had two sons, both by his second wife. Their divorce was quite bitter and the boys were largely raised by their father. Thom, one of the sons, stated that Cathy Ames was, unequivocally, his father's representation of their mother. Some sources say John was much less enthusiastic about his wife being pregnant with the second son, John Jr., which colored the way the firstborn, Aaron, was portrayed as opposed to Caleb, the second born (btw, ouch if you were John, Jr.). The character of Lee, I have always opined, represented Steinbeck's third wife who provided much needed stability and motherly love in the boys' lives. In real life, Steinbeck was descended from Samuel Hamilton and was the son of Olive Hamilton, which of course all comes into play in the novel. This is my favorite book.
I’ve read/ listened to The Grapes of Wrath, and The Winter of Our Discontent 100 times. I feel they are much more engaging novels. I read East of Eden years ago, and remember not liking it very much. I get the feeling Steinbeck was more comfortable around men, and really didn’t understand women. I wish someone would film a remake of The Grapes of Wrath.
I enjoyed this podcast but my only complaint is your analysis of Kate. I understood very clearly that she was a psychopath/sociopath. She wasn't inherently EVIL in the sense that she tries to do bad things, she's a narcissist and has to be in control and is always looking for a path for manipulation.
Great examination. I loved most every aspect of the story, so it was fun to compare the more critical view you guys presented to mine. I found myself arguing with you (in good faith and amicably of course)! In that way, I was able to determine my own position. I do wish I could have a conversation with you guys about the story haha. Thanks for great content!
Great Job Nathan, When I suggest the book (as it’s a favorite of mine), I share with people it’s very scandalous like our lives, that it’s a deep look into Generational Legacy with an in-depth look at favoritism and how it effects the human heart for evil & good. The book resonates with our very own soul on our own choices we make and how they effect others. One brother beats his brother up and when the father sees the son was beat up by his brother the father asks why he did it, when the beaten son stays silent, the father threatens him asking why and then the beaten son reveals it’s because he thinks you don’t love him…😢 Below is my favorite part, because Steinbeck has deeply contemplated most likely through his own personal experience and comparing it to man’s philosophies and God’s life manual the Bible. Thou Mayest man shall triumph over sin,,, but God gives us free will to choose wisely between evil or good. Taken from East of Eden, John Steinbeck I’ve had a complete picture of you... Proud of it... No one could call him a liar because mainly the lie was in his head... And any truth coming from his mouth carried the color of the lie. Quite early he could talk the talk and his conversations were quite convincing... He developed to be an excellent conversationalist and story teller, he began to attract attention with the stories...his stories were intelligent and convincing His private life was laced through with all this... It was the children that really caught it... When a child first catches adults out... when it first walks into it’s grave little head... that adults do not have divine intelligence... that their judgements not always wise, their thinking true, their sentences just... His world falls into panic desolation, the Gods are fallen and all safety gone... And there is one sure thing about the fall of God’s... they don’t fall a little... they crash or shatter deeply into green muck... it is a tedious job to build them up again... they never quite shine, and the child’s world is never quite whole again....it is an aching quite growing,,, Steinbeck gives us amazing characters as examples that choose to be bitter or better… What do we each choose?
If I can oversimplify it, the book is basically saying that you live through your karma through generations until someone in your bloodline manages to do the right thing and break the cycle. Lee is like the invisible hand of God trying to teach the readers that everything is in their own hands.
Both Nick and Eric (longtime book club member and guest of the pod from time to time) both recommend Grapes of Wrath for prose. Though both must include the caveat that they read the book long ago, and memory is a fuzzy foolish thing.
2:15 Salinas is not in the Central Valley. 2:27 Grampa Cyrus Trask, Son Adam, Grandsons Caleb and Aaron. That's three generations, not two. Not off to a great start.
Not sure what you mean, Jim. Maybe it was about the characterization of one of the few central female characters, the one with the "malformed soul," Cathy Ames?
Not a very helpful review. Three arrogant whippersnappers trying to critique one of the greatest novels of the 20th century. Products of 21st century mush education.
Arrogant? That's a stretch. Whippersnappers? We wish we were young enough to fit the epithet. One of the greatest novels of the 21st century? Perhaps. In the end, we liked the book a lot. Any critiques were (hopefully) justified. Mush education? Mostly accurate. Anyway...thanks for listening, nonetheless.
Mr. Moeller, take some blood pressure pills, and get some psychological help no body is going to replace you. Tucker (Tokyo Rose ,Joseph Goebbels, Axis Sally, )Carlson is lying to you, stop looking for civil wars, and communist and socialist under rocks and corners.
@@booksosubstance The guy that explained that, while the characters were archetypal, they also were nuanced in their inner struggles was great… I wish he would have led the discussion rather than his thoughts dismissed by the others in favor of simplistic polarized thinking. The book is not necessarily perfect literarily but the MESSAGES are so many! For people who see those messages (family dysfunction, seeking love in the wrong places, causes of evil - Cathy likely was abused by her parents etc)… you couldn’t get to it all in several episodes. So why waste time with petty criticisms? Address the messages that resonate with so many & make this such a profound book.
Nit: Salinas is *not* in the Central Valley but rather the Salinas Valley which is separated by the Central Valley by the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabilan_Range
The main pillars of the story - Samuel Hamilton and Lee - give you conversations filled with morals to remember for life. Steinbeck does a great job of slowly taking you with him to the times in Salinas Valley when things were simpler but people were as complex as they can be as ever. Good and Bad - you forget the difference between them as you read through this behemoth. You tend to slowly and sweetly realize that one cannot exist without the other. Steinbeck wrote it for his sons Tom and John so that they can learn the ways of the world through his eyes.
East of Eden might be slow for some people's taste. But, I would suggest you to read/review Grapes of Wrath which is very pacy, more crisper and to the point compared to East of Eden and most importantly very hard hitting compared to East of Eden.
Little more info: Samuel's character was loosely based on Steinbeck himself. Steinbeck used to love to make little things out of his creativity whether it be a wooden chair or a fancy articraft but never made it big. And Caleb is loosely based on one of John's kids. He was troublesome and John was trying really hard to teach this troubled kid the ways of life, morals etc while he was writing East Of Eden. Courtesy: Daily writing journals of Steinbeck while writing East of Eden. He used to write a letter every day to his editor after he finishes his day of writing (mostly 4x or 5x weekdays a week, few hours of writing everyday with weekends always for personal life), would suggest you to read it if you are more interested in learning about East of Eden.
Thank you for this very interesting background which will enhance my appreciation of this book. I’m about a third in and have fallen totally in love with this book. Ashamed that I didn’t come to it earlier!
I believe parts of the book were much more autobiographical than most people realize. Steinbeck had two sons, both by his second wife. Their divorce was quite bitter and the boys were largely raised by their father. Thom, one of the sons, stated that Cathy Ames was, unequivocally, his father's representation of their mother. Some sources say John was much less enthusiastic about his wife being pregnant with the second son, John Jr., which colored the way the firstborn, Aaron, was portrayed as opposed to Caleb, the second born (btw, ouch if you were John, Jr.). The character of Lee, I have always opined, represented Steinbeck's third wife who provided much needed stability and motherly love in the boys' lives. In real life, Steinbeck was descended from Samuel Hamilton and was the son of Olive Hamilton, which of course all comes into play in the novel. This is my favorite book.
I’ve read/ listened to The Grapes of Wrath, and The Winter of Our Discontent 100 times. I feel they are much more engaging novels. I read East of Eden years ago, and remember not liking it very much. I get the feeling Steinbeck was more comfortable around men, and really didn’t understand women.
I wish someone would film a remake of The Grapes of Wrath.
I enjoyed this podcast but my only complaint is your analysis of Kate. I understood very clearly that she was a psychopath/sociopath. She wasn't inherently EVIL in the sense that she tries to do bad things, she's a narcissist and has to be in control and is always looking for a path for manipulation.
Do those qualities, kept alive and unchecked, make her evil, at least according to the logic of the novel?
So, I’ll listen to the whole thing, but as a VO guy myself, I LOVE that you kept your partner’s coaching in the podcast intro! So sweet!
Cheers!
Great examination. I loved most every aspect of the story, so it was fun to compare the more critical view you guys presented to mine. I found myself arguing with you (in good faith and amicably of course)! In that way, I was able to determine my own position. I do wish I could have a conversation with you guys about the story haha. Thanks for great content!
Thank you for listening. Always love a good healthy disagreement, especially about things that matter, like literature.
Great Job Nathan,
When I suggest the book (as it’s a favorite of mine), I share with people it’s very scandalous like our lives, that it’s a deep look into Generational Legacy with an in-depth look at favoritism and how it effects the human heart for evil & good. The book resonates with our very own soul on our own choices we make and how they effect others.
One brother beats his brother up and when the father sees the son was beat up by his brother the father asks why he did it, when the beaten son stays silent, the father threatens him asking why and then the beaten son reveals it’s because he thinks you don’t love him…😢
Below is my favorite part, because Steinbeck has deeply contemplated most likely through his own personal experience and comparing it to man’s philosophies and God’s life manual the Bible. Thou Mayest man shall triumph over sin,,, but God gives us free will to choose wisely between evil or good.
Taken from
East of Eden, John Steinbeck
I’ve had a complete picture of you...
Proud of it...
No one could call him a liar because mainly the lie was in his head...
And any truth coming from his mouth carried the color of the lie.
Quite early he could talk the talk and his conversations were quite convincing...
He developed to be an excellent conversationalist and story teller, he began to attract attention with the stories...his stories were intelligent and convincing
His private life was laced through with all this...
It was the children that really caught it...
When a child first catches adults out... when it first walks into it’s grave little head... that adults do not have divine intelligence... that their judgements not always wise, their thinking true, their sentences just...
His world falls into panic desolation, the Gods are fallen and all safety gone...
And there is one sure thing about the fall of God’s... they don’t fall a little... they crash or shatter deeply into green muck... it is a tedious job to build them up again... they never quite shine, and the child’s world is never quite whole again....it is an aching quite growing,,,
Steinbeck gives us amazing characters as examples that choose to be bitter or better…
What do we each choose?
Thanks for listening. You picked an excellent part of the book and maybe one of the most impactful ideas to take away from it. .
Thanks for this!! Was a great thing to listen to after finishing the book.
Thanks for listening. Glad you got something out of it.
If I can oversimplify it, the book is basically saying that you live through your karma through generations until someone in your bloodline manages to do the right thing and break the cycle. Lee is like the invisible hand of God trying to teach the readers that everything is in their own hands.
What a great Nobel prize winner of literature,Laureate John Steinbeck!
Darn tootin'
why did it take years for youtube to recommend this ??? thank you nonetheless
Cheers! Happy reading, Ponderous Pines!
You guys briefly mentioned this isn’t Steinbeck’s most interesting prose. Any recommendations from him with awesome prose in mind?
Both Nick and Eric (longtime book club member and guest of the pod from time to time) both recommend Grapes of Wrath for prose. Though both must include the caveat that they read the book long ago, and memory is a fuzzy foolish thing.
2:15 Salinas is not in the Central Valley. 2:27 Grampa Cyrus Trask, Son Adam, Grandsons Caleb and Aaron. That's three generations, not two. Not off to a great start.
Yes, but Cyrus doesn't fit into the Cain/Abel symbolism, which runs over the next two generations..
Steinbeck experimented with different styles of writing in different books.
Yo that ending was creepy af. Great listen though
Why isn't there a Californian Bakery called " Yeast of Eden"?
Really? There must be.
Obama´s "Yes we can " derives from this Steinbeck´s meaning of Timshel
🎧📚 🎭🤔 🍿🖤
（☝ ՞ਊ ՞）☝
Man out of no where with the misogyny accusation .
Not sure what you mean, Jim. Maybe it was about the characterization of one of the few central female characters, the one with the "malformed soul," Cathy Ames?
🤷🏻♂️?
Not a very helpful review. Three arrogant whippersnappers trying to critique one of the greatest novels of the 20th century. Products of 21st century mush education.
Arrogant? That's a stretch. Whippersnappers? We wish we were young enough to fit the epithet. One of the greatest novels of the 21st century? Perhaps. In the end, we liked the book a lot. Any critiques were (hopefully) justified. Mush education? Mostly accurate.
Anyway...thanks for listening, nonetheless.
Mr. Moeller, take some blood pressure pills, and get some psychological help no body is going to replace you. Tucker (Tokyo Rose ,Joseph Goebbels, Axis Sally, )Carlson is lying to you, stop looking for civil wars, and communist and socialist under rocks and corners.
@@booksosubstance
The guy that explained that, while the characters were archetypal, they also were nuanced in their inner struggles was great… I wish he would have led the discussion rather than his thoughts dismissed by the others in favor of simplistic polarized thinking.
The book is not necessarily perfect literarily but the MESSAGES are so many! For people who see those messages (family dysfunction, seeking love in the wrong places, causes of evil - Cathy likely was abused by her parents etc)… you couldn’t get to it all in several episodes. So why waste time with petty criticisms? Address the messages that resonate with so many & make this such a profound book.
Nit: Salinas is *not* in the Central Valley but rather the Salinas Valley which is separated by the Central Valley by the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabilan_Range