brant etienne I miss all the bits in the old kits. Now every thing is molded in to stuff. So now purity seals where you don't won't them and not where you do. Thanks gw.
Yes, the modeling is a huge part of the hobby and a big part of what drew me to Orks. Wargear options give us a lot of flexibility in how to model things. If they continue to cut down on our options and discouragement of kitbashing and significant changes to models becomes the norm I think we'll soon start seeing a lot of "casual" players leaving and a much smaller pool of hardcore tournament players (not that there is anything wrong with being a hardcore tournament player).
If they end up eliminating a ton of wargear options I think it might actually be better to eliminate the WYSIWYG rule for characters, sergeants, etc. I'm not saying that would be a great solution, I hope it doesn't happen, but at least it would give us a lot of freedom from a modeling perspective.
it's one of the great parts of the hobby. The best thing about a new Codex is looking through it, reading the options that a model can take, and then dreaming up ways to create that model. The books should be filled with, not just options they don't sell, but units they don't sell. I want to be given a challenge. New players do need to be encouraged, but (a) many will be turned if they get the idea that kitbashing is frowned upon or not really viable, and (b) they can still make the basic units and options in the codex and use those. You could EVEN, SHOCK HORROR, have a section in the codex where you have 'advanced rules', and this contains all the units not currently for sale. This gives people the option to make their own, or for GW to produce models in the future! WIN WIN! This direction GW is taking is very anti-hobby.
As an Ork player, I would like to welcome everyone to the "gutted options" corner. Put your old models up on the shelf next to our Looted Vehicles and Forge World Flyers and join us in drowning your sorrows with Fungus Beer.
Kitbashing means I must buy more than one box of models. That's profit for GW and they're killing it? Also, why every faction in the game doesn't have their equivalent of space marine commander box? That's especially painful with orks, because warboss should be towering above nobz.
Kitbashing is one of my favourite things in the hobby. The level of ingenuity that goes into crafting a miniature from multiple kits makes incredible miniatures that are unique and add a level of personality for your forces. I remember being inspired for the first time by some examples in my old 5th Ed Blood Angels book and white dwarf and making my own personally made Captain. It would be a terrible shame for it to be discouraged.
With the regiments that have rules largely being represented by handful of metal infantry squads, with no special weapon, or heavy weapon options, and no command squads. The fancy new regiments they made up for this codex have neither rules, nor model unless you feel like making both. And then there are anomalies like Gaunt's Ghosts, and Schaeffer's Last Cancers who have readily available miniatures, but no rules. They have been getting better over the last year or so, but it does always seem that the only consistent thing about Games Workshop is their inconsistency.
Also Veteran squads cat take shotguns and autoguns, neither of which come in any of the infantry boxes. (But both come in the GSC Neophyte Squad, which suggests they are expecting you to to kitbash or proxy them).
christ I'm bloody terrified of the potential absolute kneecapping that a new ork codex could bring, if they keep going hard down this "no model, no rules" route...jeezuz...
good bloody point actually...looking at the GW store orks section, from a "starting to collect an army from scratch" perspective, there really is a lot of stuff that's either just flat-out missing, or is woefully outdated, or otherwise insufficient...example: you want a warboss? well I hope you want it monopose finecast (using the same sculpt as the old metal one), equipped with a big choppa and kustom shoota - because that's your only 100% official option!...I guess there is grukk faceripper, who is at least plastic, though still monopose, and equipped with a power klaw and kombi-rokkit and an attack squig, which is a nice loadout, but kinda expensive points-wise...he's also only available in a bundle with 5 nobz, which if you don't want the nobz, makes it a bloody expensive warboss! ...and then there's stuff like deffkoptas, warbuggies, wartrakks, skorchas, all massively out of date...lootas/burnas only coming with 4 in a kit, and a mek...trukk and battlewagon kits not including any mounted rokkit launchers...I'm sure there's plenty more missing options and outdated stuff like that across the board that I haven't mentioned...but yeah, for a new player/someone wanting to start a new ork army, it seems pretty damn far from ideal, to try getting everything you need from GW - I'm ok, because I've picked up loads of cheap old second-hand ork stuff off ebay, lots of stuff from old "assault on black reach" starter sets and loads of other stuff...and I've done a load of kitbashing and scratchbuilding to get what I needed over the years...GW really need to sort out their ork line, being a new/aspiring ork player has gotta suck right now :/
The most orky stuff ive seen on the DakkaDakka forums have been converted from other models. for example here is an orky KV2 dakkadakka[DOT]com/dakkaforum/posts/list/742299.page#9652771.
KuK137 the problem comes from the worrying lack of options available to units and characters. I am all for giving us options which GW don't provide. If anything it's those options I actively persue. I love having something individual. For example give the warboss an option of having a jump pack. There is no kit for this. But would make for a fanatastic characterful conversion. Just one little example of many things they could offer. GW is contradicting themselves alot at mo in regards to this issue. The current painboy is not supplied with a seperate grot orderly. They don't currently produce a model for a grot orderly. Yet the option is in the index! Also it concerns me that there is no looted wagon in the index. Or ard boyz! I pray these are restored in the coming codex.
I think the Autarch should be given the Chaos Terminator Sorceror/Lord treatment where it's one model that can be given a bunch of special wargear available to it in the Codex.
Sadly like you said Kor'sarro Khan also suffers from this. You know, iconic Space Marine character who is known from riding Bike and belongs to Chapter that is known from having lot of Bikes but doesn't have rules for that in Space Marine Codex and has to use rules from Index while Grey Knights Grandmaster with Dreadknight. It makes GW seem hypocritical to say one thing and do another and it doesn't make sense.
Mecha82 there seems to have been a push to get rid of kit bashing company wide. But it also seems that the design team are against it, because of course they. Only marketing could think this was a good idea.
I play Space Wolves and this would be worrying for me. No rune priest in terminator armour, to iron priest on thunderwolf, no wolf priest, no wolf guard battle leader. This list can go on and on
Mathew Lock. As a fellow space wolves aficionado since the beginning I am in agreement with you and others here. I have thousands of points of wolves that I don't want to play with this 8th edition index warp storm. People like us can lose major portions of our armies based on these decisions. It was similar hi jinx during parts of 7th and 6th editions as well for many of us. I have been seeing a lot of old school Ork or other players feeling the same. I am sitting here looking at 5 drop pods and a thunder wolf cavalry death star of twelve models wondering if they will ever be on the hunt again. Looking at my Arjac's shield brothers and playing taps on my trumpet. Good thing I built a cool custom twin las cannon for Bjorn huh. I am actually using four primaris squads because GW. Somehow its mostly still fun somehow. Let us pour ale and prepare for a new fantastic codex that will return the flavor and feral danger we crave to our magnificent sons of Russ. Let us also raise the Kraken on GW not making every single model mono pose boring vanilla and allowing us to retain the ability kit bash and customize our little toy soldiers for the dangerous jobs they have to endure.
The made to order Eldar stuff also included at least one Farseer with a staff. They can't take staves now. There's also the War Walker in the Start Collecting box that has the default loadout in the Codex of two Shuriken Cannons, but only comes with one in the box.
Yeah, Orks especially NEED kitbashing, I hear in the old days some of their units didn't even have models, you HAD to craft them from other faction's bits
@@maximsavage An Ork Warboss in mega armour, has been in the rules for as long as I've been in the hobby. (So at least since 2004ish) and has NEVER had an official model release, and you have ALWAYS had to kitbash it (usually with the old ghazgkull) or buy third party, or if you have enough modelling experience, make one from scratch. Many things in the codexes are in this state, its insane.
Why has there never been an autarch box like the space marine captain one that had all the options in it? That would probably sell amazingly and would have made kitbashing even easier
I'm sure there was one. Not a full kit with every option. Gw don't realise that if they gave the other factions the attention space marines get, they would sell more models. I dunno about you, but I hate my HQs looking just like everyone elses..
Eldar: We don't want new players to have to kitbash. Imperial Guard: Hey here are examples of how to kitbash regiments that require lots of rare parts but we totally encourage you to build whole armies of them.
There's major dimension to why the removal of Autarch options is so egregious that you may not know. The lore for the Autarch since it's introduction (and indeed, still featured prominently in the 8th edition codex) is that they're commanders that have mastered multiple Aspects (the different Eldar warrior squads) and bring their experience and wargear to the field. There's a specific ritual upon 'graduating' from an Aspect shrine where an aspiring Autarch is gifted with a piece of wargear from that Aspect. This is written in the lore entry for the Autarch, and It is why Autarchs have always been able to pick and choose weapons and equipment until the 8th edition codex. So it's beyond simply a matter of kit-bashing and having access to different models, it's basically reneging on the whole basis of what the Autarch is and does.
"if we don't sell it, it's not available" Didn't the 7th ork codex have things like "da lukky stikk" and other relics without any models? This bodes well for the future of the kitbashing kings when the 8th ork codex rolls around
Dark Eldar got hit by this back in 7th edition. We lost five special characters and a load of wargear options for our units, all because it dont come in the box. EVEN THOUGH, the models were specifically designed to be easily kitbashed. What about the old space marine razorback? As far as I recall, that kit does not come with twin assault cannons, yet they can still take it in the codex. Why was this not removed from the space marine codex then?
I still remember my Archon racing around on with T5 Reaver jetbikes....good times Should have bought Kruellagh the Vile back than as well i guess (another DE character lost to the ages)
Ah. I only started with the dark kin back in 5th, so never experienced Kruellagh or jetbike archons. I would love to have something other than a footslogging hq though, be it through jetbike, skyboard or wings, anything. As it is right now, the Dark Eldar HQs feel like a tax. In 5th, I kitbashed a group of nine kabalite trueborn with shard carbines (taken from the scourge kit) and even converted my own Duke Sliscus model, then they were removed. In 7th I created a unit of 20 kabalite warriors to go with a webway portal archon, with extra melee weapons and special helmets to make them resemble battle ready parachuters, then they got canned as well. Oh, and I even bought models for the Corpsethief Claw and Dark Artisan formations from the Haemonculus Covens codex supplement, and they got cut out too. Now I'm almost afraid to do any new conversions, cause there is no telling what GW will cut next time. Sorry for the rant guys, I'm just a little on edge about this.
Martin Jensen Tyranids lost The Parasite or Mortrex and The Doom of Malantai. The doom i agree was a bit OP but the Parasite was just a warrior with wings that could independent character attach to units maybe say 30 ablative gargoyle wounds perhaps? But no model no go i was a bit sad. And now they remove Shrikes from the latest codex according to rumors :(
Sean Bowen Sorry man, but you're incorrect, 8th ed. SM Codex entry for Razorback(pg. 180) clearly states This model may replace it's Twin Heavy Bolter with a Twin Lascannon or a Twin Assault-Cannon. The Twin Assault Cannon is even ABOVE Twin Heavy Bolter on the weapons profiles list for the Razorback. This likely because forge world sells a Twin Assault Cannon specifically for the Razorback, however the Razorback can no longer take the Las/Twin Plasma upgrade, which also has a specific part from forge world, so you still have a valid point, just used the wrong weapon as an example.
As an Eldar player, the Autarch entries pissed me off. I'm still not over it. Haven't even opened up the new Start Collecting box yet because of it. And I had plans for kit-bashing and converting several Autarchs too. The most notable would probably be the Skyrunner variants. I wanted to kit-bash the Shining Spears bike with the Autarch's body, so instead of the Autarch holding the bikes handle bars with one hand he'd instead have his hand on a touch pad. Then depending on the weapons I would give him would matter where they were placed. If it was a Reaper Cannon I was going to file it at an angle and mount it on the nose of the bike. If it was just a Fusion gun, I'll use the bit that came with the Skyrunner Autarch. I might work a Death Spinner or two either on the nose of the bike or closer to the pilot. Avenged Shuriken Catapults I'd mount on the under side if I was taking two of them. The Autarch was the one model you could get creative with. I remember when I first started with 40k, one space marine HQ had two different sprues and you'd only use like ten or so parts out of the whole thing. You had the standard HQ body, some decorations for him and then every weapon he was allow to take. But rather then making things easily accessible, just cut it out. An Autarch, a leader that has walked every path of the aspect warriors and has gathered weapons or gear from those paths to use at their will and when the situation calls for it. And what's funnier (in a bittersweet and ironic way) is the fluff entry for the Autarch says just that. Yet we can't replicate that on the table top. Thanks GW. I might just stick to the codex. Models cost more but it remains loyal to the fluff. Sorry for the wall of text.
When I bought the Space Wolves Start Collecting as my first kit I was so excited. I was going to give my Grey Hunters 2 Meltaguns, a Plasma Pistol and the Pack Leader would have a Power Fist and just a normal Boltgun. I was so conflicted when I saw that the kits didn't give Meltaguns when the Imperium 1 index says you can give Grey Hunters Meltaguns. I ended up giving them Plasma Guns.
Here's what I think. If you add weapon options and gear that aren't sold with the model to the codex, it should boost sales since people might buy more kits to get the pieces they want. Like the primaris intercessors. If you want the sergeant to take a power sword you have to get it from another kit like a tactical marine kit. So you buy both to get the power sword and the tactical marine squad.
I'd hate to think options are dropped from codices for commercial, rather than balance, reasons. Removing options doesn't protect new players from a need to kitbash - if new hobbyists' modelling skills limits them to models already produced (which I don't believe, anyway) then matching the rules limits to them gains them nothing - it only subtracts from existing players. What happens if you kitbash - at great effort - a currently valid option for which there is no model and that option gets removed next codex update? What happens if you limit your kitbashing only to options that GW produce - that model might go out-of-production and be removed next codex!?!
Building Skitarii is such a pain in the ass. You’re allowed to take 2 special weapons in squads of 5, but they only include 1 of each weapon.... per BOX OF 10! Oh and ofc they don’t sell individual sprues. Also Alphas (squad leaders) are allowed to just keep their regular gun (no pistol/sword) but you can’t do that and have an omnispec guy because they only include 1 of that, weapon that doesn’t have part of a hand on it. Seriously, this is such a nightmare. They say they want new players to be able to get into it, but as a new player, I don’t want to build my models BECAUSE I CANT
but it's metal :/ that's the problem. No body like metal for obvious reason. Banshee exarch with Power Axe for some reason, like is that even legal in 8th? that's the problem. They either said it's legal for this model to have this weapon that weapon, or don't sell the stupid made to order metal cast decade old. It's already weird we still stuck in metal in 2017. Again, metal is the elephant in the room.
Couldn't agree more. Was really looking forward to customizing my autarch. Tbh they probably did this solely to stop people from putting banshee mask on autarch to nullifying overwatch from units and then charging other units in afterwards which was pretty broken.
There used to be a magazine called the 'Citadel Journal', you could find additional invented hq's etc, to take in your armies. I would like to think most players would be laxed enough to allow the use of non codex units. You are after all allowed to start your own chapter and therefore hq's, to give your army a more personal touch. Kitbashing fits in well with open play not matched hence the 'dual diagnosis' of G.W. G.W. even mentioned if you could not find a unit in the most recent codexes to refer back to the last/previous entry. Happy wargaming!
I'm totally down with players going back through older dexs to grab characters and units they don't have anymore. So many cool named characters have existed in the past. I absolutely despise the way GW went from a hobby company to a litigious corporate entity as much as the manner they've allowed the tournament scene to dictate everything.
If GW doubles down on the whole ''if we don't sell it you may not use it'' thing, Deathwatch kill team veterans may not have thunder hammers since they are not in the Deathwatch kill team kit.
one of the sides of this hobby I love the most is customising the models (or kitbashing), GW not allowing this in the rules is like cutting off an arm (okay, one of the Perry brothers was still amazing with just one arm, but that's not the point).
I could be wrong but I also think they don't sell primaris lieutenants other than in the dark Imperium box set so you have to have to make your own out of an intercessor and get a power sword from somewhere
KuK137 Yeah you can get a power sword from the upgrade kit, which would be kitbashing, which completely undermines their reason stated for things such as the Autarch. Also SM generally get it lighter, but they aren't immune, we lost quite a few things for no real reason, like they took the las/plas upgrade away from Razorbacks even though they sell that specific turret at Forge World, and it's ONLY for the Razorback... Khan doesn't have a bike option...
As an OG Dark Eldar Player [as in I split the 3e box set with friends 3 times to get my first 45 models] I have a highly customized army, my first wyches were made from the female warrior torso and the legs with the 1 armored leg. My LGS didn't stock many niche army specialty figs, so the warrior kit and 3e core box were my source of figs, I had to travel almost 3 hours by bus and train to an actual GW mall booth to get my first raider, reavers and an actual Archon. My first extensive conversion was adding the head and claw from karandras to an Incubus Master fig [both pewter] to make Ahrha, who I ran as an archon with tormentor helm, shadow field and Punisher, basically an Incubus HQ that wasn't a "2k points + opponent's permission only" special character like Drazahr [although, lore wise, it kinda was still drazahr] Now, 20 years later, they release a new Drazahr and... he sucks. As a hero figure. I showed some friends [who have various experience with 40k from none to building a genestealer army] My non-modified Guilliman , Primarneus Calgar, An old metal Calgar honor guard, and a bog standard bolter smurf, and brief them on the relationship between them [Demi-God, Hero, Special, Normal respectively]. I then show them the "what's in the box" pic from Blood of the Phoenix and tell them there are 2 demi-gods [as Jain-Zahr and Drazahr are lore-wise, basically the eldar equivalent of Primarcks] and ask them to find them, it usually takes 30 seconds to find the Banshee Queen, but after a couple minutes, they all picked out... the Klaivex with demi-klaives as the other demi-god. After I point out Drazahr, they blink in confusion. I then show them old Drazahr in the codex and they immediately understand he is special. In honor of my first conversion, I hunted down another Karandras and the old Drazahr [again, both metal] and added the old executioner's blades and Karandras's head [with the new Drazahr's mask inserted between the mandiblasters] to a custom body made of plastic incubi, dark elf cold one knight and dire avenger bits, with new drazahr's necklace and old drazahr's trophy racks. I also used old metal drazahr's body and some Avenger exarch bits to make my own Visarch [as before I saw his expanded lore, I was convinced by his army of incubi, mad sword skillz and ancient armor [and that you can't have Drazahr in a Ynnari army] that he was Drazahr/Ahrha. I know now that he is just generic Avenger Exacrh #647 and now you can't have any non-Ynnari named characters if you want to have an "all the Eldar but those dirty Haemonculi" army.. boo
I'm saddened you didn't call out GW's recent trend of hard to bash models too. Like all the models that are hard to kitbash like the monopose deathguard stuff that may as well be static models. Used to be GW was the only manufacturer who made their models modular specifically to support bashing, now it seems hit or miss.
I started 40k (and tabletop in general) this august. Up to this video i didn'nt even know there was a problem with kitbashing. But this actually takes away my desire to get further into this hobby.
just started this week, did a fun paint of a legios titanicus warlord for the kicks, and i can safely say that in all the research i have been doing to decide what army i want to build... i learned one very important thing. the ONLY way to get what I want out of this game IS to kitbash.
It seems some folks have missed this. A codex and index has entries so one can build an army using the kits available. At the back of these books there is listed a cost for model, and weapons. There is no reason these things cannot come together. On one hand you have the entry giving all the options, or lack thereof. If you put a weapon on a model that it normally doesn't have and you've paid the points, those are points you aren't spending elsewhere. If somebody has a rules stick up their ass, you don't have to play them. It's your game, play it how you like. Convert how you like, think OUTSIDE the box. Of course keep it within reason, and make it LOOK good. It's ok if the newbie just builds their stuff right out of the box. Once they've gotten a taste of building all their stuff the same, units/vehicles/HQ, they'll either be begging GW to make different kits and probably wait a long time for such things to come about or they'll try their hand at kitbashing/conversion.
The obvious answer is that eventually GW will finish the line-wide model refresh they've been slowly doing. There'll be captains and lords on bikes, models to expand the autarch weapon options, and everything in between. They've been steadily getting there, but it's gonna take a long while. What makes the interim especially difficult is, of course, that this is still fallout from the Chapterhouse suit. They learned some hard lessons there on what they could legally enforce and this is the result.
Something like 90% of my HQ's for my CSM are kitbashed and also several regular squads. Don't take away my kitbashing! Doing something aa simple as kitbashing really makes an army unique. There are times where I've also been forced to kitbash in order to get a squad of Havocs at a reasonable price and also just making CSM with loyalist parts because it looks good!
Dade Frost you can customise other races quite easily. Not as easily as say, a Space Marine, but something like a Tau battlesuit commander can't be too hard.
I just started again after a few years out of it. My Iron Warrior sorcerer has the wings backpack from the possessed box, Nurgle helmet on the Chaos Plastic marines frame with two possessed claws added and the Nurgle horn shoulder pad, a standard plastic Chaos marine body with the ragged loin cloth from the Chaos terminator lord. Plasma pistol is a Raptor one on the arm of a standard outstretched plasma pistol arm. Am guessing I will be told no the wings can't be used as a jump pack even though back in 2007 the codex had artwork of said wing/pack and refered to it as an organic hybrid jump pack.
Andrew McNally genestealers go together one way, you might be able to convert, but they aren't designed to be. All Space marines were designed to kitbash, all eldar before harlequins were designed to kitbash. Plastic imp guard were designed to kitbash. That design ethos seems to be leaving gw
If they don't want barriers to entry for new players, the chaplain in the GK codex is the limited edition one that's only available on store birthdays, with GK terminator shoulders (of which you don't get spares in the box so you either go to a bits site or lose a terminator which means you can't use the squad unless you make a 9 with another box). Luckily I got one at my stores bday and got the shoulders from a bits site.
I kit bash all the time in fact 80% of my purchase on ebay are part to help with kit bashing. Especial for for Characters in the leadership rolls. As for GW they just want to sell stuff (so player should just buy). What GW should says if it was in the index to should be playable ( i.e. as they did with Liberian on a bike, ect...). So why are the rules different for the Eldar, this would be so easy if they put out rules as a FAQ stating that Autarch could be played by index rules. That would not be hard. But no, screw Eldar players (as GW says if we do not make it then you can not play it). I so confused as if this has been legal for many years on the table and now it is not ( So all 7 of my Autarchs I have are no longer legal or I have to dumb them down and say stuff like mark of dave on these model that I spent hour making and customizing). Also the only way to make a Grey Knight Grand Master Nemesis Dreadknight ( in white dwarf there are instruction on how to make it, and the only way to do this is kit bashing). WTF!!!!!!
Although I've never kitbashed before, the idea of being able to make something, really cool and personal and being able to play it on the field, does get me really giddy. And it sucks that the attitude that we should not kitbash at all ever, is ludicrous, because then you're denying your player base from being creative with what they got and getting them to seek out more boxes, to get the one piece they need. If GW, really likes money, then they should support the idea of being able to kitbash.
So, this dude who is answering stuff on the Community Website hasn't heard about the Imperial Space Marine. They don't sell this model anymore but it got it's own extra-special entry in the recent 8th Edition Marine books 🤔
Raketenralf Errr..... so we now have a two tier game according to whether a player buys an index or codex? That is what I call GW playing a sticky wicket.
...What do you mean by "Rogue trader (as it) was a 3+ RPG not a 2+ TMW"? I'm just curious, as the original Rogue Trader Was a skirmish game with clear potential for rpg-like campaign play, but in 2009, Fantasy Flight Games released an _actual_ rpg with that name, based on WH40K. So, what do you mean, and which one of them are you referring to?
Two_Heads_Talking Anyone can play the game anyway they want. I'm just having fun with how Games Workshop can't get a consistent public position together. Just like Forge World can't give a realistic product description of the models they sell. Or how Games Workshop can't have a single accepted policy for using aforementioned FW models in their stores to game with. Seeing a pattern perhaps?
As someone that’s built & painted more 40K models than actually played games of 40K, I’ll go with the more kit bashing options, the more likely I am too buy the stuff in the first place.
More options! With certain armies, like Chaos in Fantasy, kitbashing is mandatory. Kitbashing is how people make the army their own. Even if you can't use the options that's on the model, just do it to make it look cool. Heck, the Runtherd for my Gretchin is a Squig, with some old power claws, and is getting done up like a Commissar. Legal? Not in the slightest, but it gets a laugh every time!
Kit-bashing is important. Some of us enjoy building, more than playing, or only play VERY rarely, but it might be nice to still be able to USE that kit-bashed HQ, or whatever. I'd also be interested to see if, in the Guard Company Commander box, if they now have a Glovodon Eagle, Servo-skull familiar, or several other bits that represent the Guard relics, that are finally back. If not, then I have to kit-bash to make my Commander have the Laurels of Command, or Kurov's Aquila (I still plan to make this with some magnets, and an arm from Coteaz.) Also, the Autarch is SUPPOSED to be the ultimate customizer, like Inquisitors once were. They're the one combining the different ways or war, among the Eldar, and getting to combine, say, a jetbike (mobility + Toughness +1), a power sword, a Banshee mask, and a Reaper Launcher, or a Fusion Gun, is important to their way of fighting (nothing says this one is good; I'm just venting). I actually can't believe they pulled his options from the book, when that's what Autarchs are; their options.
Purchased a 3d print from a designer, as well as a sword for a treelord and a flying base...all for a kit bashed Grand master dreadknight. It's gonna take me hours, cutting and fitting pieces that normally go together in 5 minutes...and it's gonna be fucking glorious. Down with the system!
Here's my little anecdote on modifying models. Back in 3rd the powerfist equivalent for Sisters was a two-handed energy weapon (following mostly the same rules) so I decided to equip my seraphim superiors and a couple of other sisters with them, which was a pain, the models being metal and all, especially with the few i decided to reposition the arms on. A couple of months later 4th came along and GW decided that these weapons weren't a thing anymore, the new double strength option was a big ass chain sword now. After getting shit on by various tournament players/judges for the weapons not being accurate reps I decided to never use these models again...
Regarding models with gear unavaialbe to them in current codex, there are also the Chosen. As the codex states, they must choose wheter they use Bolter and bolt pistol, or bolt pistol and some fancy close combat weapon, while models obviously have both those options on them.
I dunno but a space wolves manual from a pack i bought literally says you can use it and spare parts from long fangs, wolf scouts and skyclaws kit to make more of those things.
Kit bash is good, hell if you want a model that looks cool like a custom canoness who's stopping you, or a chapter master kitbashing in my opinion is vital to the hobby, I my self have done some kitbashing and nothing is better than seeing someone like your fully painted kitbash
Yea it would be nice if they would sell kits with all the diffirent load outs for the units like in the havocs/devestator boxes have 4x of the heavy weapons or in the plague marine box 2x blight launcher 3x plasma gun etc. etc. etc. you guys get the point.
I'd say just from a business perspective they should definitely encourage kitbashing. If you kitbash two sets together that guarantees the sale of two sets, while if you do a plain set that only guarantees the one. So not giving the option to kitbash not only is stifling creativity, but is a colossaly stupid business decision aswell.
Since you can use the options from the Index on any of your codex autarchs (at least now, i dont know if this clarification already existed when this video was made), i dont mind it so much. I'm a big fan of converting and kitbashing and i hope GW will embrace it as they once did.
GW even sold an skink-shaman in the World-That-Once-Was/WHFB that had an visible magic-item combo that wasn't possible because of the point cost & rules. Contradictions are their house-bacteria, when they let them get out of hand Nierg has a field-day!
It's really sad what GW did the Eldar Autarch and they had a few different figures to choose from so no two Craftworld armies looked exactly alike. GW is not thinking again!!
Dante points out a massive issue for most armies. Chaos, for example (The army of my choice) is problematic with collecting parts for Havocs. The box for a squad (Last I checked) only comes with one of each heavy weapon meaning if you have any common sense and intend to equip a full squad of them with similar weapons for targeting reasons then you have to either buy multiple boxes, use third party production sites such as Anvil Industries (Who I've been using, giving them an honorable mention because of their consistent quality), or you have to buy secondhand games workshop items off of sites like Ebay which may run as high as $5 PER GUN for GW official bits- assuming anyone is even selling what you're looking for. If they're going to use the argument that, "You can only equip what is in the box." Then they are either completely ignoring their current sets or are setting themselves up for incredibly stupid decisions that will undoubtedly piss off their community with standards such as limiting heavy support teams to one of each type of gun.
They even made an article in White Dwarf telling people how to convert a dreadknight grandmaster! ( also isnt there an entry for pyschic chaplains in the GK book? where is the model for that?)
Similar to how a Harlequin Troupe only comes with 2 Embrace/2 Caress and 2 Fusion Pistols, but 5 Kiss when those three options are great and the Kiss is way to expensive in comparison. I literally have bought bits online to have enough weapons.
I recently saw where GW showed how to kit bash Valdor into a Dreadknight. It may have been in WD, but I can't recall off hand. I personally think kit bashing is damn near half the fun of the hobby.
Inquisitor stats in the index can either have carapace or terminator armour when almost all the miniatures they sell are in power armour. I was about to start a Primaris army but the options for converting any characters were so limited I haven't bothered! I'll wait a year for the next codex with more options...
I know this is a year out from when you made this video, but have a look at "wake the dead", the spirit seer, that comes in that box, is holding out a weapon that is unavailable in the codex. Not only that, but in the box, you have an assembly guide, which also has the spirit seer datasheet, and even on that datasheet, which is part of the assembly guide for that figure, it can not have that weapon.
had to scratch build land raiders and battle wagons in 3rd. White dwarf had a paper template to put on to plasti-card so you could convert your falcon grav tank into a wave serpent. A number of special characters never had models either. This about face and limeting characters options because of current model range is pants. Need to use indexes just to mount my chaos lord on something
This is nothing new. This is a repeat of a lot of 8th edition bollocks rehashed. Case and point not too long ago, I wanted to build a Astra Militarum force; but wanted something other than Cadian/Catachan so I was excited at the White Dwarf images for things like the Indigan Praefects or Savlar Chem-Dogs would be a great army to build until you price the number of kits needed to bash them to get units. I was doing back of the napkin math one day at my local GW store and in order to make a beginner's army (about 1500 points) with the models to all be matching I was looking at 3 different kits needed for the parts for each 10 man unit I would build. And if I were to want to have an infantry heavy army, I would break the bank and still have to go into debt to get the fluffy look I want. And this is why with each passing stop, I keep on getting tempted to buy a Death Korps army and feel good about the money spent to get a different from everybody else's army. Good job GW, send me to your sister company for all my gaming wants.
I do alot of kit bashing and it can be a pricey option. However there are ways round it. Buy the kits needed and kitbash. Then sell on the left over parts on ebay. You can get a suprizingly good amount of money back on bits. That way you can recoup at least some of the cost. And the bits you sell will help other kit bashers. 😊
Their answer was absurd Ans stupid but they also forgot to say the the index can still be used. The index has rules (for example) a techmarine on bike but it's not in the codex, so you can still field it. A unit that has been repeated in the codex over rides the index.
I've been saying for years that GW should make a HQ kit for each codex's main generic HQ choice (warboss, captain, autarch etc) with ALL options available to it on the sprue.
I've tried to get into tabletop for years now, money and socializing are my biggest problems. But this comes close, since I'd mostly like models for conversion and arts stuff anyways because I'm shit at most tabletop games and I don't see myself being better at this.
I vote yes to kitbashing, particularly for the character type models. Kitbashing adds more flavor to the game while allowing players to make these models run in a more preferred manner and makes the unnamed models more desirable to players.
They still „force“ people to kitbash: Let’s say you want to buy a box of the NEW CSM. Inside of the very box, you find a datasheet that tells you that your new guys can carry laser weapons. Does the kit actually PROVIDE laser weapons? No. Are those new models easy to kitbash? Super no.
Pretty sure most space marine options are kit bashes I don’t think that captain kit comes with a jump pack a thunder hammer and a storm shield .... he can take that though
The inconsistencies are a problem and makes it hard to gauge changes coming in the other codexes. My main army is space wolves and the index made some of my terminators non-playable which they said wasn't their plan with 8th. The idea was that all your models are usable. Now I'm holding off changing them and calling the weapons something else in home games, but I can't tell what the codex will say. They should be consistent, so I can get an idea what's coming.
This werid, the manger at my local GW is super encouraging for kitbashing and conversions. Shoot my Wolf Guard with 30k boarding shields is something everyone loves the look of at my local GW.
Kitbash for days, always, everything looks cooler with kitbashing, that's how I get my IG (AM) Armored fist squads to look like e.g. Panzergrenadiers. Give them the helmets with goggles and the whole nine yards. Also, my SM army is an Dorn chapter, but I go super crusader with them and use Black Templars AND Dark Angels bits.
I'd like to see MORE support for kitbashing, with a master list of point costs for just about everything except unique/named gear. It should always be more expensive and/or less effective than a listed choice - you'd never be able to buy existing figures by building them from the ground up - but if someone really wants to play an army of orks that are carrying shuriken cannons (maybe they recently kicked over a minor Eldar settlement or craft world), you can make that happen. For a price. Maybe they're way more points, maybe they aren't as good in the hands of troops that don't have much practice, maybe the army hasn't figured out how to maintain them so using them is risky, who cares? Post the options and let the players decide. Listed troops and options get a steep discount, but if you are willing to pay the price to field exactly the army you picture in your head, GW should make it happen. And if they can find a way to get paid for that, everyone wins.
It's this sort of headaches that has me paused on my Deathwatch army project. The kit, created in 7th Ed has loads of wonderful upgrade options for the marines, can be used with virtually any marine model. 8th Ed hits, and the Index completely altered how I have to think about assembling the models for a potential army. And given the fact that the current codex releases have been mostly in line with the individual model stats with some variations, I have to wait to see if they fixed said problem. The problem is simply, Deathwatch marines can no longer dual wield their special issue boltgun, and a CC weapon. I know I know, minor thing, I can slap the shoulderpad on a generic marine and it's all good. But I can only imagine how many deathwatch players have to "Counts as" for their army. Which begs the question is 'counts as' even a thing in 8th?
I have always seen it this way the best way to do this is let any model take any wargear within reason eg a heavy weapon list a lascannon requires two guardsman to operate and just have a points list for each item for charaters and non characters let people build an army they want
And their statement of we don’t put options in the codex that we don’t sell is shown up by the Swooping Hawk exarch having access to a power sword - not on the model. Or the Dark Reaper exarch can take a Shuriken Cannon but again the model doesn’t come with it
I built Commander Shadowsun recently, what a strange way of assembly! It wasnt seperated into limbs, torso, head and weapons, but instead into all these fiddly segments that didn't resemble anything until it was fully assembled. Is this perhaps GW's new way of preventing parts being swapped out and kitbashed?
nah there not trying to actively discourage kitbashing at all imo, they still show off kitbashed models in white dwarf, and share them on there twitter and twitch stuff. If anything it gets them more money as it makes people buy multiple kits. Its just sculpt wise you get more detail when a model in monoposed so lots of newer characters are like that.
I'm just going to mention a few options that Chaos Marines have that suffer like the Autarch. Lords - no bike Sorcerer - no bike Exalted Champion - only standard equipment options, no bike, no jump pack not even Terminator armor. Same for Dark Apostles and Warpsmiths. And then the stuff that has options that shouldn't under the same idea, Any weapon upgrades for Cultists they don't sell those now. Berzerkers shouldn't have an icon. Chosen, no models for those. Bikers shouldn't have any upgrades. Raptors shouldn't have Icons. Chaos vehicles should only be able to take combi bolters or combi flamers. There's probably more but some stuff I don't know the boxes well enough.
the onager gauntlet (and most of 'signature systems') for the tau don't have pieces so I had to put a spare shoulder pad from my fire warriors on the forearm of my crisis commander. no problem. games workshop is definitely having a bit of a civil war at the moment.
I remember when GW used to even publish peoples custom works in white dwarf. Their kit bashes and unique figures people made for 40k.. My local store now bans you from the shop if your model isn't stock GW products and 90% original design.. literally had people be asked to leave because their Blood angels model was using some parts from a death watch kit. "it gives an inaccurate image of our products when people see you playing with these modified figures" Being the reason.
they still do have kitbashes in white dwarf and its encouraged on there warhammer commmunity page twitter which posts alot of kitbashed stuff. There twitch streams also show off alot of kitbashed stuff and they've had tutorials for it i dont think there discouraging it at all. Its just when models are monopose it makes it more difficult to do so.
That's a really dumb store. Last time I checked, all the kits came in boxes that showed you what was inside, minus the multi-hundred dollar paint job. The entire reason I got into Warhammer models was expressly because I wanted it to be 90% my design! Maybe not 90%, since I'm not pouring plastic into industrial grade injection molding machines, but you know what I mean.
This is one of many reasons I've given up the ghost on 40k. One minute they are a modelling company, the next it's all about the rules restricting what you can model. I've been a hard core converter/kitbasher for decades and the game has never felt so monopose and restrictive to me. Such an imaginative setting needs freedom to play around with the models.
Well now I know why Primaris HQ options have practically no customization in their codex entries. The only reason I'm hesitant to go that route for my marine army is kitbashing is one of my favorite parts of the hobby
I only came back into the hobby a few weeks ago after around 15 years away from it. Looking over my (very) old codex chaos the pages of images of miniatures are littered with conversions (they even label them as such and ask you not to phone up mail order asking for the miniature) I really miss the idea of ordering individual components which cannot be done anymore.
I wonder how this is going to affect Orks. We have a ton of options for which there are no GW models... warboss on bike, big mek on bike, painboy on bike, standard big mek with kff. Trukks, buggies and battlewagons all have a rokkit option but none of the kits come with rokkits. Based on GW's remarks about the Autarch, I'm guessing we will lose these options. :(
from what I can tell there is the same problem whit the guards. we have rought rider in the codex(army book) 8edition but there is no model for sale (I dont think Rought rider have been for sale for years). or a crusaders I dont think there is anything that I can use from the store that works as a crusaders(sword and shield) (I took a squad of sister of silence (2h sword) and I will call that day.
Want to talk no kit bashing, look at the Primaris. No way to give them las cannons, multimelta, rockets or anything to take out heavy vehicles. Then you got the captains, One can't be bought anymore, one can only be gotten in the Know no Fear and Dark Imperium set and the one on the site has one option, bolter rifle or stalker...so add a scope pretty much.
I'm having a similar problem right now, 4 and a bit years after this was an issue. I own the two versions of the Stone Crusher Carnifex sold by Forgeworld, one which comes with two Wrecker Claws, one which comes with one Wrecker Claw and one Bio-Flail. In the most recent Imperial Armour Compendium, the datasheet now allows for two Bio-Flails, or two Wrecker Claws. They're not even selling a model that allows for two Bio-Flails, it only comes with one. So if the datasheet is adhered to strictly, I now have a model that I cannot use, and one of the options cannot be modeled.
why don't they just say: "This is a regular space marine (for example). These guys come in several packages, one that comes with bolters and intercessor or tac squad weapons, and here is one that comes with chainswords and jump packs! Both of these use the simple space marine template, however you can use any wargear you want on them as long as you can kitbash it as long as you can pay for that gear in points! Or you can just take the classic squads, where they come with preset rules with all wargear cost included for beginners." WHY NOT?!?!?!? Like or reply or whatever if you agree, i want to know if i'm the only one, or if you have another idea.
Streamlining is good IMHO when it comes to some rules but removing flavour from armies by reducing choice and no even supporting it is just backwards, more choice is always better.
I dont know about anyone else, but kit bashing and customization in general is what got me sold on 40k.
brant etienne I miss all the bits in the old kits. Now every thing is molded in to stuff. So now purity seals where you don't won't them and not where you do. Thanks gw.
Yes, the modeling is a huge part of the hobby and a big part of what drew me to Orks. Wargear options give us a lot of flexibility in how to model things. If they continue to cut down on our options and discouragement of kitbashing and significant changes to models becomes the norm I think we'll soon start seeing a lot of "casual" players leaving and a much smaller pool of hardcore tournament players (not that there is anything wrong with being a hardcore tournament player).
If they end up eliminating a ton of wargear options I think it might actually be better to eliminate the WYSIWYG rule for characters, sergeants, etc. I'm not saying that would be a great solution, I hope it doesn't happen, but at least it would give us a lot of freedom from a modeling perspective.
it's one of the great parts of the hobby. The best thing about a new Codex is looking through it, reading the options that a model can take, and then dreaming up ways to create that model.
The books should be filled with, not just options they don't sell, but units they don't sell. I want to be given a challenge.
New players do need to be encouraged, but (a) many will be turned if they get the idea that kitbashing is frowned upon or not really viable, and (b) they can still make the basic units and options in the codex and use those. You could EVEN, SHOCK HORROR, have a section in the codex where you have 'advanced rules', and this contains all the units not currently for sale. This gives people the option to make their own, or for GW to produce models in the future! WIN WIN!
This direction GW is taking is very anti-hobby.
brant etienne yep
Remember when new models had legs separate to torsos? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
The Not-God-Emperor Of Mankind your the Emperor. Do something
As an Ork player, I would like to welcome everyone to the "gutted options" corner. Put your old models up on the shelf next to our Looted Vehicles and Forge World Flyers and join us in drowning your sorrows with Fungus Beer.
My looted basilisk, lootaz with lascannons, and zzap gunz and lobbaz salute you
@@BouncingTribbles my and my looted bane blade as well....
@@TheInsaneupsdriver oh yeah, that too... lol
Kitbashing means I must buy more than one box of models. That's profit for GW and they're killing it? Also, why every faction in the game doesn't have their equivalent of space marine commander box? That's especially painful with orks, because warboss should be towering above nobz.
Kitbashing is one of my favourite things in the hobby. The level of ingenuity that goes into crafting a miniature from multiple kits makes incredible miniatures that are unique and add a level of personality for your forces. I remember being inspired for the first time by some examples in my old 5th Ed Blood Angels book and white dwarf and making my own personally made Captain. It would be a terrible shame for it to be discouraged.
You didn't mention the Astra Mila-what! Guard regiments in the codex, actually designed to be kitbashed.
The Wall-Of-Guns
you literally have to kit bash most AM armies if you don't play cadian or catachan.
With the regiments that have rules largely being represented by handful of metal infantry squads, with no special weapon, or heavy weapon options, and no command squads.
The fancy new regiments they made up for this codex have neither rules, nor model unless you feel like making both.
And then there are anomalies like Gaunt's Ghosts, and Schaeffer's Last Cancers who have readily available miniatures, but no rules.
They have been getting better over the last year or so, but it does always seem that the only consistent thing about Games Workshop is their inconsistency.
Also Veteran squads cat take shotguns and autoguns, neither of which come in any of the infantry boxes. (But both come in the GSC Neophyte Squad, which suggests they are expecting you to to kitbash or proxy them).
christ I'm bloody terrified of the potential absolute kneecapping that a new ork codex could bring, if they keep going hard down this "no model, no rules" route...jeezuz...
Orks without the kit bashing is just crazy! 😮
good bloody point actually...looking at the GW store orks section, from a "starting to collect an army from scratch" perspective, there really is a lot of stuff that's either just flat-out missing, or is woefully outdated, or otherwise insufficient...example: you want a warboss? well I hope you want it monopose finecast (using the same sculpt as the old metal one), equipped with a big choppa and kustom shoota - because that's your only 100% official option!...I guess there is grukk faceripper, who is at least plastic, though still monopose, and equipped with a power klaw and kombi-rokkit and an attack squig, which is a nice loadout, but kinda expensive points-wise...he's also only available in a bundle with 5 nobz, which if you don't want the nobz, makes it a bloody expensive warboss!
...and then there's stuff like deffkoptas, warbuggies, wartrakks, skorchas, all massively out of date...lootas/burnas only coming with 4 in a kit, and a mek...trukk and battlewagon kits not including any mounted rokkit launchers...I'm sure there's plenty more missing options and outdated stuff like that across the board that I haven't mentioned...but yeah, for a new player/someone wanting to start a new ork army, it seems pretty damn far from ideal, to try getting everything you need from GW - I'm ok, because I've picked up loads of cheap old second-hand ork stuff off ebay, lots of stuff from old "assault on black reach" starter sets and loads of other stuff...and I've done a load of kitbashing and scratchbuilding to get what I needed over the years...GW really need to sort out their ork line, being a new/aspiring ork player has gotta suck right now :/
The most orky stuff ive seen on the DakkaDakka forums have been converted from other models. for example here is an orky KV2 dakkadakka[DOT]com/dakkaforum/posts/list/742299.page#9652771.
If they follow a strict interpretation of "no model, no rules" we Ork players could really get gutted when the codex comes out.
KuK137 the problem comes from the worrying lack of options available to units and characters. I am all for giving us options which GW don't provide. If anything it's those options I actively persue. I love having something individual. For example give the warboss an option of having a jump pack. There is no kit for this. But would make for a fanatastic characterful conversion. Just one little example of many things they could offer.
GW is contradicting themselves alot at mo in regards to this issue.
The current painboy is not supplied with a seperate grot orderly. They don't currently produce a model for a grot orderly. Yet the option is in the index!
Also it concerns me that there is no looted wagon in the index. Or ard boyz! I pray these are restored in the coming codex.
I think the Autarch should be given the Chaos Terminator Sorceror/Lord treatment where it's one model that can be given a bunch of special wargear available to it in the Codex.
James Seager. AKA Lord Jamesinatre I think every HQ for every faction should be given that treatment.
Sadly like you said Kor'sarro Khan also suffers from this. You know, iconic Space Marine character who is known from riding Bike and belongs to Chapter that is known from having lot of Bikes but doesn't have rules for that in Space Marine Codex and has to use rules from Index while Grey Knights Grandmaster with Dreadknight. It makes GW seem hypocritical to say one thing and do another and it doesn't make sense.
Mecha82 there seems to have been a push to get rid of kit bashing company wide. But it also seems that the design team are against it, because of course they. Only marketing could think this was a good idea.
I play Space Wolves and this would be worrying for me. No rune priest in terminator armour, to iron priest on thunderwolf, no wolf priest, no wolf guard battle leader. This list can go on and on
Mathew Lock. As a fellow space wolves aficionado since the beginning I am in agreement with you and others here. I have thousands of points of wolves that I don't want to play with this 8th edition index warp storm. People like us can lose major portions of our armies based on these decisions. It was similar hi jinx during parts of 7th and 6th editions as well for many of us. I have been seeing a lot of old school Ork or other players feeling the same.
I am sitting here looking at 5 drop pods and a thunder wolf cavalry death star of twelve models wondering if they will ever be on the hunt again. Looking at my Arjac's shield brothers and playing taps on my trumpet. Good thing I built a cool custom twin las cannon for Bjorn huh. I am actually using four primaris squads because GW. Somehow its mostly still fun somehow. Let us pour ale and prepare for a new fantastic codex that will return the flavor and feral danger we crave to our magnificent sons of Russ. Let us also raise the Kraken on GW not making every single model mono pose boring vanilla and allowing us to retain the ability kit bash and customize our little toy soldiers for the dangerous jobs they have to endure.
The made to order Eldar stuff also included at least one Farseer with a staff. They can't take staves now. There's also the War Walker in the Start Collecting box that has the default loadout in the Codex of two Shuriken Cannons, but only comes with one in the box.
As an Ork player kit bashing is essential. It needs to stay, for good.
Yeah, Orks especially NEED kitbashing, I hear in the old days some of their units didn't even have models, you HAD to craft them from other faction's bits
@@maximsavage An Ork Warboss in mega armour, has been in the rules for as long as I've been in the hobby. (So at least since 2004ish)
and has NEVER had an official model release, and you have ALWAYS had to kitbash it (usually with the old ghazgkull) or buy third party, or if you have enough modelling experience, make one from scratch.
Many things in the codexes are in this state, its insane.
@@gabrieltsgardner9942 Yeah, GW is known for such bullshit, I'm not surprised.
Why has there never been an autarch box like the space marine captain one that had all the options in it? That would probably sell amazingly and would have made kitbashing even easier
The easy answer? Because its not a space marine. Simple as that. Such a kit would be amazing though.
I'm sure there was one. Not a full kit with every option. Gw don't realise that if they gave the other factions the attention space marines get, they would sell more models.
I dunno about you, but I hate my HQs looking just like everyone elses..
Dade Frost they used to have multiple metal autarch models with different options, but I don't think they ever had a multipart plastic kit.
I feel like every faction should have a plastic kit like the captain for their 'Main' HQ choice.
Studio Gible I agree as an Eldar player but GW is too busy jacking off the Space Marines players to want to do that.
Eldar: We don't want new players to have to kitbash. Imperial Guard: Hey here are examples of how to kitbash regiments that require lots of rare parts but we totally encourage you to build whole armies of them.
There's major dimension to why the removal of Autarch options is so egregious that you may not know. The lore for the Autarch since it's introduction (and indeed, still featured prominently in the 8th edition codex) is that they're commanders that have mastered multiple Aspects (the different Eldar warrior squads) and bring their experience and wargear to the field. There's a specific ritual upon 'graduating' from an Aspect shrine where an aspiring Autarch is gifted with a piece of wargear from that Aspect. This is written in the lore entry for the Autarch, and It is why Autarchs have always been able to pick and choose weapons and equipment until the 8th edition codex. So it's beyond simply a matter of kit-bashing and having access to different models, it's basically reneging on the whole basis of what the Autarch is and does.
"if we don't sell it, it's not available"
Didn't the 7th ork codex have things like "da lukky stikk" and other relics without any models?
This bodes well for the future of the kitbashing kings when the 8th ork codex rolls around
Dark Eldar got hit by this back in 7th edition. We lost five special characters and a load of wargear options for our units, all because it dont come in the box. EVEN THOUGH, the models were specifically designed to be easily kitbashed. What about the old space marine razorback? As far as I recall, that kit does not come with twin assault cannons, yet they can still take it in the codex. Why was this not removed from the space marine codex then?
Martin Jensen ohh, damn that really sucks dude
I still remember my Archon racing around on with T5 Reaver jetbikes....good times Should have bought Kruellagh the Vile back than as well i guess (another DE character lost to the ages)
Ah. I only started with the dark kin back in 5th, so never experienced Kruellagh or jetbike archons. I would love to have something other than a footslogging hq though, be it through jetbike, skyboard or wings, anything. As it is right now, the Dark Eldar HQs feel like a tax. In 5th, I kitbashed a group of nine kabalite trueborn with shard carbines (taken from the scourge kit) and even converted my own Duke Sliscus model, then they were removed. In 7th I created a unit of 20 kabalite warriors to go with a webway portal archon, with extra melee weapons and special helmets to make them resemble battle ready parachuters, then they got canned as well. Oh, and I even bought models for the Corpsethief Claw and Dark Artisan formations from the Haemonculus Covens codex supplement, and they got cut out too. Now I'm almost afraid to do any new conversions, cause there is no telling what GW will cut next time. Sorry for the rant guys, I'm just a little on edge about this.
Martin Jensen Tyranids lost The Parasite or Mortrex and The Doom of Malantai. The doom i agree was a bit OP but the Parasite was just a warrior with wings that could independent character attach to units maybe say 30 ablative gargoyle wounds perhaps? But no model no go i was a bit sad. And now they remove Shrikes from the latest codex according to rumors :(
Sean Bowen Sorry man, but you're incorrect, 8th ed. SM Codex entry for Razorback(pg. 180) clearly states
This model may replace it's Twin Heavy Bolter with a Twin Lascannon or a Twin Assault-Cannon.
The Twin Assault Cannon is even ABOVE Twin Heavy Bolter on the weapons profiles list for the Razorback.
This likely because forge world sells a Twin Assault Cannon specifically for the Razorback, however the Razorback can no longer take the Las/Twin Plasma upgrade, which also has a specific part from forge world, so you still have a valid point, just used the wrong weapon as an example.
As an Eldar player, the Autarch entries pissed me off. I'm still not over it. Haven't even opened up the new Start Collecting box yet because of it. And I had plans for kit-bashing and converting several Autarchs too. The most notable would probably be the Skyrunner variants.
I wanted to kit-bash the Shining Spears bike with the Autarch's body, so instead of the Autarch holding the bikes handle bars with one hand he'd instead have his hand on a touch pad. Then depending on the weapons I would give him would matter where they were placed. If it was a Reaper Cannon I was going to file it at an angle and mount it on the nose of the bike. If it was just a Fusion gun, I'll use the bit that came with the Skyrunner Autarch. I might work a Death Spinner or two either on the nose of the bike or closer to the pilot. Avenged Shuriken Catapults I'd mount on the under side if I was taking two of them.
The Autarch was the one model you could get creative with. I remember when I first started with 40k, one space marine HQ had two different sprues and you'd only use like ten or so parts out of the whole thing. You had the standard HQ body, some decorations for him and then every weapon he was allow to take. But rather then making things easily accessible, just cut it out.
An Autarch, a leader that has walked every path of the aspect warriors and has gathered weapons or gear from those paths to use at their will and when the situation calls for it. And what's funnier (in a bittersweet and ironic way) is the fluff entry for the Autarch says just that. Yet we can't replicate that on the table top. Thanks GW. I might just stick to the codex. Models cost more but it remains loyal to the fluff.
Sorry for the wall of text.
When I bought the Space Wolves Start Collecting as my first kit I was so excited. I was going to give my Grey Hunters 2 Meltaguns, a Plasma Pistol and the Pack Leader would have a Power Fist and just a normal Boltgun. I was so conflicted when I saw that the kits didn't give Meltaguns when the Imperium 1 index says you can give Grey Hunters Meltaguns. I ended up giving them Plasma Guns.
Here's what I think. If you add weapon options and gear that aren't sold with the model to the codex, it should boost sales since people might buy more kits to get the pieces they want. Like the primaris intercessors. If you want the sergeant to take a power sword you have to get it from another kit like a tactical marine kit. So you buy both to get the power sword and the tactical marine squad.
I'd hate to think options are dropped from codices for commercial, rather than balance, reasons.
Removing options doesn't protect new players from a need to kitbash - if new hobbyists' modelling skills limits them to models already produced (which I don't believe, anyway) then matching the rules limits to them gains them nothing - it only subtracts from existing players.
What happens if you kitbash - at great effort - a currently valid option for which there is no model and that option gets removed next codex update? What happens if you limit your kitbashing only to options that GW produce - that model might go out-of-production and be removed next codex!?!
Like showing the litimed edition terminator chaplain kitbashed for the Grey Knights codex.
Building Skitarii is such a pain in the ass. You’re allowed to take 2 special weapons in squads of 5, but they only include 1 of each weapon.... per BOX OF 10!
Oh and ofc they don’t sell individual sprues. Also Alphas (squad leaders) are allowed to just keep their regular gun (no pistol/sword) but you can’t do that and have an omnispec guy because they only include 1 of that, weapon that doesn’t have part of a hand on it.
Seriously, this is such a nightmare. They say they want new players to be able to get into it, but as a new player, I don’t want to build my models BECAUSE I CANT
Bonesinger on the made to order is not in the codex but has rules for 8th included.
Pretty odd indeed, its like....day 1 DLC
Pre Day One DLC that goes away on day one then only to be found on the likes of E-Bay
but it's metal :/ that's the problem. No body like metal for obvious reason. Banshee exarch with Power Axe for some reason, like is that even legal in 8th? that's the problem. They either said it's legal for this model to have this weapon that weapon, or don't sell the stupid made to order metal cast decade old. It's already weird we still stuck in metal in 2017. Again, metal is the elephant in the room.
I like Metal.
Ned Slass whats wrong with metal. Got loads of metal miniatures in my armies.
Couldn't agree more. Was really looking forward to customizing my autarch. Tbh they probably did this solely to stop people from putting banshee mask on autarch to nullifying overwatch from units and then charging other units in afterwards which was pretty broken.
There used to be a magazine called the 'Citadel Journal', you could find additional invented hq's etc, to take in your armies. I would like to think most players would be laxed enough to allow the use of non codex units. You are after all allowed to start your own chapter and therefore hq's, to give your army a more personal touch. Kitbashing fits in well with open play not matched hence the 'dual diagnosis' of G.W. G.W. even mentioned if you could not find a unit in the most recent codexes to refer back to the last/previous entry. Happy wargaming!
I'm totally down with players going back through older dexs to grab characters and units they don't have anymore. So many cool named characters have existed in the past. I absolutely despise the way GW went from a hobby company to a litigious corporate entity as much as the manner they've allowed the tournament scene to dictate everything.
If GW doubles down on the whole ''if we don't sell it you may not use it'' thing, Deathwatch kill team veterans may not have thunder hammers since they are not in the Deathwatch kill team kit.
Mees Zijlstra it's in the start collecting box
It's not. I started my army with a start collecting box. There's heavy thunder hammers in there. Not normal ones.
one of the sides of this hobby I love the most is customising the models (or kitbashing), GW not allowing this in the rules is like cutting off an arm (okay, one of the Perry brothers was still amazing with just one arm, but that's not the point).
What about the primaris sergeant being able to take a Power sword but there's no power sword in the kit
I could be wrong but I also think they don't sell primaris lieutenants other than in the dark Imperium box set so you have to have to make your own out of an intercessor and get a power sword from somewhere
Indeed. Space Marines seem to get a free pass on these things, whereas other, less popular armies get knifed immediately.
Didn't they get rid of a lot of bike options for characters in the Space Marine codex?
KuK137 Yeah you can get a power sword from the upgrade kit, which would be kitbashing, which completely undermines their reason stated for things such as the Autarch.
Also SM generally get it lighter, but they aren't immune, we lost quite a few things for no real reason, like they took the las/plas upgrade away from Razorbacks even though they sell that specific turret at Forge World, and it's ONLY for the Razorback... Khan doesn't have a bike option...
As an OG Dark Eldar Player [as in I split the 3e box set with friends 3 times to get my first 45 models] I have a highly customized army, my first wyches were made from the female warrior torso and the legs with the 1 armored leg.
My LGS didn't stock many niche army specialty figs, so the warrior kit and 3e core box were my source of figs, I had to travel almost 3 hours by bus and train to an actual GW mall booth to get my first raider, reavers and an actual Archon.
My first extensive conversion was adding the head and claw from karandras to an Incubus Master fig [both pewter] to make Ahrha, who I ran as an archon with tormentor helm, shadow field and Punisher, basically an Incubus HQ that wasn't a "2k points + opponent's permission only" special character like Drazahr [although, lore wise, it kinda was still drazahr]
Now, 20 years later, they release a new Drazahr and... he sucks. As a hero figure. I showed some friends [who have various experience with 40k from none to building a genestealer army] My non-modified Guilliman , Primarneus Calgar, An old metal Calgar honor guard, and a bog standard bolter smurf, and brief them on the relationship between them [Demi-God, Hero, Special, Normal respectively].
I then show them the "what's in the box" pic from Blood of the Phoenix and tell them there are 2 demi-gods [as Jain-Zahr and Drazahr are lore-wise, basically the eldar equivalent of Primarcks] and ask them to find them, it usually takes 30 seconds to find the Banshee Queen, but after a couple minutes, they all picked out... the Klaivex with demi-klaives as the other demi-god. After I point out Drazahr, they blink in confusion. I then show them old Drazahr in the codex and they immediately understand he is special.
In honor of my first conversion, I hunted down another Karandras and the old Drazahr [again, both metal] and added the old executioner's blades and Karandras's head [with the new Drazahr's mask inserted between the mandiblasters] to a custom body made of plastic incubi, dark elf cold one knight and dire avenger bits, with new drazahr's necklace and old drazahr's trophy racks.
I also used old metal drazahr's body and some Avenger exarch bits to make my own Visarch [as before I saw his expanded lore, I was convinced by his army of incubi, mad sword skillz and ancient armor [and that you can't have Drazahr in a Ynnari army] that he was Drazahr/Ahrha. I know now that he is just generic Avenger Exacrh #647 and now you can't have any non-Ynnari named characters if you want to have an "all the Eldar but those dirty Haemonculi" army.. boo
I'm saddened you didn't call out GW's recent trend of hard to bash models too. Like all the models that are hard to kitbash like the monopose deathguard stuff that may as well be static models. Used to be GW was the only manufacturer who made their models modular specifically to support bashing, now it seems hit or miss.
Dynath Kajira now it seems like only marines are the only really kitbashable guys.
that was part of the fun of doing Warhammer and 40K, being able to kit bash and convert models to specs that were in the codex but not on models
I started 40k (and tabletop in general) this august. Up to this video i didn'nt even know there was a problem with kitbashing. But this actually takes away my desire to get further into this hobby.
just started this week, did a fun paint of a legios titanicus warlord for the kicks, and i can safely say that in all the research i have been doing to decide what army i want to build... i learned one very important thing. the ONLY way to get what I want out of this game IS to kitbash.
It seems some folks have missed this. A codex and index has entries so one can build an army using the kits available. At the back of these books there is listed a cost for model, and weapons. There is no reason these things cannot come together. On one hand you have the entry giving all the options, or lack thereof. If you put a weapon on a model that it normally doesn't have and you've paid the points, those are points you aren't spending elsewhere. If somebody has a rules stick up their ass, you don't have to play them. It's your game, play it how you like. Convert how you like, think OUTSIDE the box. Of course keep it within reason, and make it LOOK good. It's ok if the newbie just builds their stuff right out of the box. Once they've gotten a taste of building all their stuff the same, units/vehicles/HQ, they'll either be begging GW to make different kits and probably wait a long time for such things to come about or they'll try their hand at kitbashing/conversion.
They need to bring back looting for Orks
The obvious answer is that eventually GW will finish the line-wide model refresh they've been slowly doing. There'll be captains and lords on bikes, models to expand the autarch weapon options, and everything in between. They've been steadily getting there, but it's gonna take a long while.
What makes the interim especially difficult is, of course, that this is still fallout from the Chapterhouse suit. They learned some hard lessons there on what they could legally enforce and this is the result.
More options are always better. GW are just trying to limit what can be provided by 3rd parties instead of them. It's genuinely disappointing.
Something like 90% of my HQ's for my CSM are kitbashed and also several regular squads. Don't take away my kitbashing! Doing something aa simple as kitbashing really makes an army unique. There are times where I've also been forced to kitbash in order to get a squad of Havocs at a reasonable price and also just making CSM with loyalist parts because it looks good!
Andrew McNally selectively the other way around works too. If you don't go overboard, they look really ornate. Worked great for artificer armour.
I love how modular space marines are, and it saddens me that the other factions don't get the same treatment.
Dade Frost you can customise other races quite easily. Not as easily as say, a Space Marine, but something like a Tau battlesuit commander can't be too hard.
I just started again after a few years out of it. My Iron Warrior sorcerer has the wings backpack from the possessed box, Nurgle helmet on the Chaos Plastic marines frame with two possessed claws added and the Nurgle horn shoulder pad, a standard plastic Chaos marine body with the ragged loin cloth from the Chaos terminator lord. Plasma pistol is a Raptor one on the arm of a standard outstretched plasma pistol arm. Am guessing I will be told no the wings can't be used as a jump pack even though back in 2007 the codex had artwork of said wing/pack and refered to it as an organic hybrid jump pack.
Andrew McNally genestealers go together one way, you might be able to convert, but they aren't designed to be. All Space marines were designed to kitbash, all eldar before harlequins were designed to kitbash. Plastic imp guard were designed to kitbash. That design ethos seems to be leaving gw
If they don't want barriers to entry for new players, the chaplain in the GK codex is the limited edition one that's only available on store birthdays, with GK terminator shoulders (of which you don't get spares in the box so you either go to a bits site or lose a terminator which means you can't use the squad unless you make a 9 with another box). Luckily I got one at my stores bday and got the shoulders from a bits site.
Today i had to kitbash an autach on foot because there is no autarch model with a star glaive - the only weapons he can have in the codex.
I kit bash all the time in fact 80% of my purchase on ebay are part to help with kit bashing. Especial for for Characters in the leadership rolls. As for GW they just want to sell stuff (so player should just buy). What GW should says if it was in the index to should be playable ( i.e. as they did with Liberian on a bike, ect...).
So why are the rules different for the Eldar, this would be so easy if they put out rules as a FAQ stating that Autarch could be played by index rules. That would not be hard.
But no, screw Eldar players (as GW says if we do not make it then you can not play it).
I so confused as if this has been legal for many years on the table and now it is not ( So all 7 of my Autarchs I have are no longer legal or I have to dumb them down and say stuff like mark of dave on these model that I spent hour making and customizing).
Also the only way to make a Grey Knight Grand Master Nemesis Dreadknight ( in white dwarf there are instruction on how to make it, and the only way to do this is kit bashing). WTF!!!!!!
Although I've never kitbashed before, the idea of being able to make something, really cool and personal and being able to play it on the field, does get me really giddy.
And it sucks that the attitude that we should not kitbash at all ever, is ludicrous, because then you're denying your player base from being creative with what they got and getting them to seek out more boxes, to get the one piece they need.
If GW, really likes money, then they should support the idea of being able to kitbash.
I really like the customisation part of the hobby and i want to keep doing it, but it feels like gw doesnt want us to kitbash at all
So, this dude who is answering stuff on the Community Website hasn't heard about the Imperial Space Marine. They don't sell this model anymore but it got it's own extra-special entry in the recent 8th Edition Marine books 🤔
the imperial space marine was not in the codex, only in the index. They didnt put it into the codex because they dont sell it anymore.
Raketenralf Errr..... so we now have a two tier game according to whether a player buys an index or codex? That is what I call GW playing a sticky wicket.
...What do you mean by "Rogue trader (as it) was a 3+ RPG not a 2+ TMW"?
I'm just curious, as the original Rogue Trader Was a skirmish game with clear potential for rpg-like campaign play, but in 2009, Fantasy Flight Games released an _actual_ rpg with that name, based on WH40K.
So, what do you mean, and which one of them are you referring to?
Two_Heads_Talking Anyone can play the game anyway they want. I'm just having fun with how Games Workshop can't get a consistent public position together. Just like Forge World can't give a realistic product description of the models they sell. Or how Games Workshop can't have a single accepted policy for using aforementioned FW models in their stores to game with. Seeing a pattern perhaps?
Interesting viewpoint, and thank you for answering.
As someone that’s built & painted more 40K models than actually played games of 40K, I’ll go with the more kit bashing options, the more likely I am too buy the stuff in the first place.
More options! With certain armies, like Chaos in Fantasy, kitbashing is mandatory. Kitbashing is how people make the army their own. Even if you can't use the options that's on the model, just do it to make it look cool. Heck, the Runtherd for my Gretchin is a Squig, with some old power claws, and is getting done up like a Commissar. Legal? Not in the slightest, but it gets a laugh every time!
Kit-bashing is important. Some of us enjoy building, more than playing, or only play VERY rarely, but it might be nice to still be able to USE that kit-bashed HQ, or whatever. I'd also be interested to see if, in the Guard Company Commander box, if they now have a Glovodon Eagle, Servo-skull familiar, or several other bits that represent the Guard relics, that are finally back. If not, then I have to kit-bash to make my Commander have the Laurels of Command, or Kurov's Aquila (I still plan to make this with some magnets, and an arm from Coteaz.)
Also, the Autarch is SUPPOSED to be the ultimate customizer, like Inquisitors once were. They're the one combining the different ways or war, among the Eldar, and getting to combine, say, a jetbike (mobility + Toughness +1), a power sword, a Banshee mask, and a Reaper Launcher, or a Fusion Gun, is important to their way of fighting (nothing says this one is good; I'm just venting). I actually can't believe they pulled his options from the book, when that's what Autarchs are; their options.
Purchased a 3d print from a designer, as well as a sword for a treelord and a flying base...all for a kit bashed Grand master dreadknight. It's gonna take me hours, cutting and fitting pieces that normally go together in 5 minutes...and it's gonna be fucking glorious. Down with the system!
Here's my little anecdote on modifying models. Back in 3rd the powerfist equivalent for Sisters was a two-handed energy weapon (following mostly the same rules) so I decided to equip my seraphim superiors and a couple of other sisters with them, which was a pain, the models being metal and all, especially with the few i decided to reposition the arms on. A couple of months later 4th came along and GW decided that these weapons weren't a thing anymore, the new double strength option was a big ass chain sword now. After getting shit on by various tournament players/judges for the weapons not being accurate reps I decided to never use these models again...
Regarding models with gear unavaialbe to them in current codex, there are also the Chosen. As the codex states, they must choose wheter they use Bolter and bolt pistol, or bolt pistol and some fancy close combat weapon, while models obviously have both those options on them.
I dunno but a space wolves manual from a pack i bought literally says you can use it and spare parts from long fangs, wolf scouts and skyclaws kit to make more of those things.
Kit bash is good, hell if you want a model that looks cool like a custom canoness who's stopping you, or a chapter master kitbashing in my opinion is vital to the hobby, I my self have done some kitbashing and nothing is better than seeing someone like your fully painted kitbash
Yea it would be nice if they would sell kits with all the diffirent load outs for the units like in the havocs/devestator boxes have 4x of the heavy weapons or in the plague marine box 2x blight launcher 3x plasma gun etc. etc. etc. you guys get the point.
I'd say just from a business perspective they should definitely encourage kitbashing. If you kitbash two sets together that guarantees the sale of two sets, while if you do a plain set that only guarantees the one. So not giving the option to kitbash not only is stifling creativity, but is a colossaly stupid business decision aswell.
Since you can use the options from the Index on any of your codex autarchs (at least now, i dont know if this clarification already existed when this video was made), i dont mind it so much.
I'm a big fan of converting and kitbashing and i hope GW will embrace it as they once did.
GW even sold an skink-shaman in the World-That-Once-Was/WHFB that had an visible magic-item combo that wasn't possible because of the point cost & rules. Contradictions are their house-bacteria, when they let them get out of hand Nierg has a field-day!
It's really sad what GW did the Eldar Autarch and they had a few different figures to choose from so no two Craftworld armies looked exactly alike. GW is not thinking again!!
Dante points out a massive issue for most armies. Chaos, for example (The army of my choice) is problematic with collecting parts for Havocs. The box for a squad (Last I checked) only comes with one of each heavy weapon meaning if you have any common sense and intend to equip a full squad of them with similar weapons for targeting reasons then you have to either buy multiple boxes, use third party production sites such as Anvil Industries (Who I've been using, giving them an honorable mention because of their consistent quality), or you have to buy secondhand games workshop items off of sites like Ebay which may run as high as $5 PER GUN for GW official bits- assuming anyone is even selling what you're looking for. If they're going to use the argument that, "You can only equip what is in the box." Then they are either completely ignoring their current sets or are setting themselves up for incredibly stupid decisions that will undoubtedly piss off their community with standards such as limiting heavy support teams to one of each type of gun.
Kitbashing & painting are the best parts of the hobby for me. Remove those & you may as well play a normal board game. Don’t go down that road GW...
They even made an article in White Dwarf telling people how to convert a dreadknight grandmaster! ( also isnt there an entry for pyschic chaplains in the GK book? where is the model for that?)
Similar to how a Harlequin Troupe only comes with 2 Embrace/2 Caress and 2 Fusion Pistols, but 5 Kiss when those three options are great and the Kiss is way to expensive in comparison. I literally have bought bits online to have enough weapons.
I recently saw where GW showed how to kit bash Valdor into a Dreadknight. It may have been in WD, but I can't recall off hand. I personally think kit bashing is damn near half the fun of the hobby.
I have a reaver with duel wield carbines which makes me very happy...took a decent amount of arm,hand and gun editing
Inquisitor stats in the index can either have carapace or terminator armour when almost all the miniatures they sell are in power armour.
I was about to start a Primaris army but the options for converting any characters were so limited I haven't bothered! I'll wait a year for the next codex with more options...
I know this is a year out from when you made this video, but have a look at "wake the dead", the spirit seer, that comes in that box, is holding out a weapon that is unavailable in the codex. Not only that, but in the box, you have an assembly guide, which also has the spirit seer datasheet, and even on that datasheet, which is part of the assembly guide for that figure, it can not have that weapon.
had to scratch build land raiders and battle wagons in 3rd. White dwarf had a paper template to put on to plasti-card so you could convert your falcon grav tank into a wave serpent.
A number of special characters never had models either.
This about face and limeting characters options because of current model range is pants. Need to use indexes just to mount my chaos lord on something
This is nothing new. This is a repeat of a lot of 8th edition bollocks rehashed. Case and point not too long ago, I wanted to build a Astra Militarum force; but wanted something other than Cadian/Catachan so I was excited at the White Dwarf images for things like the Indigan Praefects or Savlar Chem-Dogs would be a great army to build until you price the number of kits needed to bash them to get units. I was doing back of the napkin math one day at my local GW store and in order to make a beginner's army (about 1500 points) with the models to all be matching I was looking at 3 different kits needed for the parts for each 10 man unit I would build. And if I were to want to have an infantry heavy army, I would break the bank and still have to go into debt to get the fluffy look I want.
And this is why with each passing stop, I keep on getting tempted to buy a Death Korps army and feel good about the money spent to get a different from everybody else's army. Good job GW, send me to your sister company for all my gaming wants.
Death Korps best Korps.
I do alot of kit bashing and it can be a pricey option. However there are ways round it. Buy the kits needed and kitbash. Then sell on the left over parts on ebay. You can get a suprizingly good amount of money back on bits. That way you can recoup at least some of the cost. And the bits you sell will help other kit bashers. 😊
Or you can be a hobby hero, they'll be useful for some project some time...
I order steel legion stuff in because I'm too broke ass for Death Korps.
Their answer was absurd Ans stupid but they also forgot to say the the index can still be used. The index has rules (for example) a techmarine on bike but it's not in the codex, so you can still field it. A unit that has been repeated in the codex over rides the index.
I've been saying for years that GW should make a HQ kit for each codex's main generic HQ choice (warboss, captain, autarch etc) with ALL options available to it on the sprue.
I've tried to get into tabletop for years now, money and socializing are my biggest problems. But this comes close, since I'd mostly like models for conversion and arts stuff anyways because I'm shit at most tabletop games and I don't see myself being better at this.
I vote yes to kitbashing, particularly for the character type models. Kitbashing adds more flavor to the game while allowing players to make these models run in a more preferred manner and makes the unnamed models more desirable to players.
They still „force“ people to kitbash:
Let’s say you want to buy a box of the NEW CSM. Inside of the very box, you find a datasheet that tells you that your new guys can carry laser weapons.
Does the kit actually PROVIDE laser weapons?
No.
Are those new models easy to kitbash?
Super no.
Pretty sure most space marine options are kit bashes I don’t think that captain kit comes with a jump pack a thunder hammer and a storm shield .... he can take that though
The inconsistencies are a problem and makes it hard to gauge changes coming in the other codexes. My main army is space wolves and the index made some of my terminators non-playable which they said wasn't their plan with 8th. The idea was that all your models are usable. Now I'm holding off changing them and calling the weapons something else in home games, but I can't tell what the codex will say. They should be consistent, so I can get an idea what's coming.
This werid, the manger at my local GW is super encouraging for kitbashing and conversions. Shoot my Wolf Guard with 30k boarding shields is something everyone loves the look of at my local GW.
That's a cool guy. We need more people like that. I love kit bashing.
*Looks at the different Ork HQs on the GW website*
*Sweats Profusely *
Kitbash for days, always, everything looks cooler with kitbashing, that's how I get my IG (AM) Armored fist squads to look like e.g. Panzergrenadiers. Give them the helmets with goggles and the whole nine yards.
Also, my SM army is an Dorn chapter, but I go super crusader with them and use Black Templars AND Dark Angels bits.
I'd like to see MORE support for kitbashing, with a master list of point costs for just about everything except unique/named gear. It should always be more expensive and/or less effective than a listed choice - you'd never be able to buy existing figures by building them from the ground up - but if someone really wants to play an army of orks that are carrying shuriken cannons (maybe they recently kicked over a minor Eldar settlement or craft world), you can make that happen. For a price. Maybe they're way more points, maybe they aren't as good in the hands of troops that don't have much practice, maybe the army hasn't figured out how to maintain them so using them is risky, who cares? Post the options and let the players decide. Listed troops and options get a steep discount, but if you are willing to pay the price to field exactly the army you picture in your head, GW should make it happen. And if they can find a way to get paid for that, everyone wins.
The " new" screamer killer in the upcoming tyranid codex will need kitbashing to make as well, just to add to the list.
They did the same thing to my guard veterans taking my doctrines away.
It's this sort of headaches that has me paused on my Deathwatch army project. The kit, created in 7th Ed has loads of wonderful upgrade options for the marines, can be used with virtually any marine model. 8th Ed hits, and the Index completely altered how I have to think about assembling the models for a potential army. And given the fact that the current codex releases have been mostly in line with the individual model stats with some variations, I have to wait to see if they fixed said problem. The problem is simply, Deathwatch marines can no longer dual wield their special issue boltgun, and a CC weapon. I know I know, minor thing, I can slap the shoulderpad on a generic marine and it's all good. But I can only imagine how many deathwatch players have to "Counts as" for their army. Which begs the question is 'counts as' even a thing in 8th?
I have always seen it this way the best way to do this is let any model take any wargear within reason eg a heavy weapon list a lascannon requires two guardsman to operate and just have a points list for each item for charaters and non characters let people build an army they want
And their statement of we don’t put options in the codex that we don’t sell is shown up by the Swooping Hawk exarch having access to a power sword - not on the model. Or the Dark Reaper exarch can take a Shuriken Cannon but again the model doesn’t come with it
I built Commander Shadowsun recently, what a strange way of assembly! It wasnt seperated into limbs, torso, head and weapons, but instead into all these fiddly segments that didn't resemble anything until it was fully assembled. Is this perhaps GW's new way of preventing parts being swapped out and kitbashed?
nah there not trying to actively discourage kitbashing at all imo, they still show off kitbashed models in white dwarf, and share them on there twitter and twitch stuff. If anything it gets them more money as it makes people buy multiple kits. Its just sculpt wise you get more detail when a model in monoposed so lots of newer characters are like that.
I'm just going to mention a few options that Chaos Marines have that suffer like the Autarch.
Lords - no bike
Sorcerer - no bike
Exalted Champion - only standard equipment options, no bike, no jump pack not even Terminator armor. Same for Dark Apostles and Warpsmiths.
And then the stuff that has options that shouldn't under the same idea,
Any weapon upgrades for Cultists they don't sell those now.
Berzerkers shouldn't have an icon.
Chosen, no models for those.
Bikers shouldn't have any upgrades.
Raptors shouldn't have Icons.
Chaos vehicles should only be able to take combi bolters or combi flamers.
There's probably more but some stuff I don't know the boxes well enough.
the onager gauntlet (and most of 'signature systems') for the tau don't have pieces so I had to put a spare shoulder pad from my fire warriors on the forearm of my crisis commander. no problem. games workshop is definitely having a bit of a civil war at the moment.
I remember when GW used to even publish peoples custom works in white dwarf. Their kit bashes and unique figures people made for 40k..
My local store now bans you from the shop if your model isn't stock GW products and 90% original design.. literally had people be asked to leave because their Blood angels model was using some parts from a death watch kit.
"it gives an inaccurate image of our products when people see you playing with these modified figures" Being the reason.
they still do have kitbashes in white dwarf and its encouraged on there warhammer commmunity page twitter which posts alot of kitbashed stuff. There twitch streams also show off alot of kitbashed stuff and they've had tutorials for it i dont think there discouraging it at all. Its just when models are monopose it makes it more difficult to do so.
That's a really dumb store. Last time I checked, all the kits came in boxes that showed you what was inside, minus the multi-hundred dollar paint job.
The entire reason I got into Warhammer models was expressly because I wanted it to be 90% my design! Maybe not 90%, since I'm not pouring plastic into industrial grade injection molding machines, but you know what I mean.
This is one of many reasons I've given up the ghost on 40k. One minute they are a modelling company, the next it's all about the rules restricting what you can model. I've been a hard core converter/kitbasher for decades and the game has never felt so monopose and restrictive to me. Such an imaginative setting needs freedom to play around with the models.
Well now I know why Primaris HQ options have practically no customization in their codex entries. The only reason I'm hesitant to go that route for my marine army is kitbashing is one of my favorite parts of the hobby
I only came back into the hobby a few weeks ago after around 15 years away from it.
Looking over my (very) old codex chaos the pages of images of miniatures are littered with conversions (they even label them as such and ask you not to phone up mail order asking for the miniature)
I really miss the idea of ordering individual components which cannot be done anymore.
Now if you want individual parts Ebay and Bits Stores are your only option.
very good point brought out. hopefully it wont effect blood angles players too. more options is far better and GW can then sell kits for that perpose
I wonder how this is going to affect Orks. We have a ton of options for which there are no GW models... warboss on bike, big mek on bike, painboy on bike, standard big mek with kff. Trukks, buggies and battlewagons all have a rokkit option but none of the kits come with rokkits. Based on GW's remarks about the Autarch, I'm guessing we will lose these options. :(
from what I can tell there is the same problem whit the guards.
we have rought rider in the codex(army book) 8edition but there is no model for sale (I dont think Rought rider have been for sale for years).
or a crusaders I dont think there is anything that I can use from the store that works as a crusaders(sword and shield) (I took a squad of sister of silence (2h sword) and I will call that day.
Left and right hands not speaking to each other. That is always frustrating.
Want to talk no kit bashing, look at the Primaris. No way to give them las cannons, multimelta, rockets or anything to take out heavy vehicles. Then you got the captains, One can't be bought anymore, one can only be gotten in the Know no Fear and Dark Imperium set and the one on the site has one option, bolter rifle or stalker...so add a scope pretty much.
I'm having a similar problem right now, 4 and a bit years after this was an issue. I own the two versions of the Stone Crusher Carnifex sold by Forgeworld, one which comes with two Wrecker Claws, one which comes with one Wrecker Claw and one Bio-Flail. In the most recent Imperial Armour Compendium, the datasheet now allows for two Bio-Flails, or two Wrecker Claws.
They're not even selling a model that allows for two Bio-Flails, it only comes with one. So if the datasheet is adhered to strictly, I now have a model that I cannot use, and one of the options cannot be modeled.
why don't they just say: "This is a regular space marine (for example). These guys come in several packages, one that comes with bolters and intercessor or tac squad weapons, and here is one that comes with chainswords and jump packs! Both of these use the simple space marine template, however you can use any wargear you want on them as long as you can kitbash it as long as you can pay for that gear in points! Or you can just take the classic squads, where they come with preset rules with all wargear cost included for beginners." WHY NOT?!?!?!? Like or reply or whatever if you agree, i want to know if i'm the only one, or if you have another idea.
Streamlining is good IMHO when it comes to some rules but removing flavour from armies by reducing choice and no even supporting it is just backwards, more choice is always better.
Cool so Spiritseer, and the new Jain Zar will be my HQ choices. I wanted to make a sweet Autarch. But not wasting money on their model now.