SWITCHING TO DORICO After 15+ Years of Sibelius
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- For all the musician and teacher friends, why I'm switching to Dorico music notation software after using Sibelius for the past 15+ years, and Finale for 5 years previous to that.
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WELCOME
0:15 Welcome
0:44 Interested in Music Notation
BACKGROUND
2:10 Background
2:37 Better or Worse?
3:27 Other softwares
6:57 Education Context
9:18 Computer Dies
EXPERIENCE
10:32 Trying Dorico
13:37 Differences in Dorico
REFLECTION
15:34 Resources
16:58 Teachers
19:14 Forum
19:55 Competitive Crossgrade
23:00 Future Proof
24:22 Dorico Team
______________________________________________
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Huei-Yuan Pan
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Thanks Huei. Great thoughts and vision into your change. I would bet on that team as well.
Lloyd Puckitt thanks for all the initial insight on @dorico and Cubase, and the continuing discussion, Lloyd! 😊🙏
Thanks for the insight! Looking forward to switching to Dorico soon! :)
Extremely informative. Thank you!
This is an excellent video! I am a professional studio musician in LA and learned to record myself using ProTools during the quarantine. Now I'm getting into arranging and trying to find the best software for me.
Thank you for sharing this! love it
"This is future editing Huey here" HAHAHA loved it and shall steal. :) great video brother, I too am joining the ranks.
Great info! Thank you.
This was great.. very informative.. I've worked with Sibelius a little bit.. and was going to jump in to buy it but I have some friends who have been raving about Dorico too. I think you've convinced me now. .. looks like you're from my old home town area.. almost next to my dad's old restaurant.. :)
Very good insight. Thx a lot for sharing this.
Cheers
Yes! 👏 The team has enjoyed using Dorico in our latest Summer projects!
Go Team! 💪 @ensembleblock
Thanks for this video - we have a similar story in terms of band music and software choices - Still using sibs 6 on OSX Mojave and hoping I can stay there for a while, but interested in seeing the growth of Dorico
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I am a Sibelius user and was considering switching to Dorico. The reason I haven't is because I already spent many years and lots of money on Sibelius. I know all the shortcuts I need with Sibelius. Dorico will have to be a massive improvement for me to switch over. We will see as time goes on, but for now I am sticking with Sibelius.
I am currently using Notion 6 but I downloaded Dorico after seeing this. So far the interface is impressive. Going to explore it a bit more for the next few weeks and see if it’s worth it. Thanks for the video.
30+ years of Finale... Made the switch to Dorico. No regrets!
Shall i buy staff pad
@@richichristiano2549 yes
Why would you leave Finale after you knew it so well?
So glad this video exists. I'm in virtually the exact same scenario you were, just a few years later-- been using Sibelius 7 since 2011, haven't updated my Macbook OS since 2018, just got a new computer and of course Sib 7 is incompatible. I have Dorico 2 from years ago but never learned it properly. I think I will take the plunge into Dorico 5 over the next few months while doing my last couple paid arrangements with Sibelius on my old computer.
Thanks for letting me know, Adam! Cool film score highlight reel, let me know if you ever need some remote drum/percussion/marimba tracks recorded 👌 good luck getting up and running with Dorico!
Thanks for your story. Liked and subbed ✅
Excellent discussion!
Thanks to your video, I had to give Dorico a look… and, WOW, does it ever look, feel, and work great! Dorico’s design is very well thought out and much more than just a simple notation software. You are so right about Dorico’s documentation and learning videos being very helpful to get working quickly in Dorico. The most impressive part of Dorico for me is what it’s capable of and how intuitive it is to use its features. I do recommend reading the beginning chapters in the documentation to learn about its design and concepts. They aren’t kidding when they say it has music rules built-in. For example, it was very easy to write a practice piece going through the Cycle of Fifths in Dorico. I’d select a measure, put in the new Key signature and Dorico automatically preceded the Key change with double bar lines. I don’t know all the rules of music notation, so to have this kind of help built-in to the app is very helpful in producing professional level scores.
I'm from the Bay Area too! Great video, Thank you sir!
I was an early adopter of Dorico back when it came out. I liked it but kept starting about half my projects in Sibelius just because of years of familiarity with the older software. Once I put some time into learning the different ways Dorico is structured, it payed me back and I became more impressed and was score to get things done quicker. Since this video was made, Dorico 4 was released, which is a big stride forward, great usability improvements like the jump bar, on top of tons of refinements and a real sense of a mature product.
Excellent presentation 🙏
Welcome to the Dorico family. I'm using it since day one and I'm loving it. 2 years ago I started giving Dorico training sessions.
Ricardo Matosinhos obrigado, Ricardo! Very nice to meet you! 😊🙏
I am glad to have run into your UA-cam presentation. I am actually looking for new music writing software and you sound believable so I would like to buy Dorico's latest pro version. I read that it is pretty cumbersome to install. What was your experience with that?
For the past 15 years or so, I have been using Overture 4 notation software by Sonic Scores. It is incredibly intuitive but it has a few bugs and crashes left but they no longer support it. The program has been replaced with Overture 5 which changed the User Interface completely and is essentially brand new to me and not at all intuitive like their previous product. As a bonus, it has a lot of bugs :) I know that you mentioned a discount being offered when switching from Sibelius and Finale to Dorico. Is there a Dorico office in the US where I can speak with a person to see if I qualify for the discount for my Overture 4 software switch to Dorico. Thank you in advance for your help.
Yep made the switch to Dorico last year after 10 years with Sibelius. Not a single regret Just a fabulous notation experience
You've convinced me to give it a try. And at risk of embarrassing myself, was that JH playing clarinet with you?
Hey man, I have been really interested in watching DCI shows trying to look for SCV - Bluecoats warmups, I’m trying to get into one of these
I am done with this "synsoacc.dll could not be located in the Windows system folders", after several reinstalls. Therefore I am keeping to using Sibelius.
I've also switched to Dorico from a previous notation software! (I used Finale v26 and v27) To me, it's been a wonderful experience. Much easier to compose and engrave in for me. While I still am keeping Finale for any project I may need to utilize it for, Dorico is much easier for me to compose and notate in. I was able to get my scores to look AMAZING much quicker than I ever could in Finale.
Thanks for letting me know, Stephanie! Good luck with drum corps tour this Summer 💪
The late great west coast composer and jazz pianist Dick Hindman said western notation, which is all we have, is meant to be a "guide" for what the composer wants, in terms of piano manuscripts. While very important, it can only direct the basic note names, starting point rhythmic values, overall dynamic direction, etc... There is so much more to actually performing the piano score that the composer cannot convey in our current notation format available. Things like layered dynamics (where individual notes in a chord are played at different volumes), or slight disjunct playing of a chord voicing where yes the chord is on the downbeat, but the notes do not all sound at once, some ahead some slightly behind. I could list a hundred other things as well that are vital to expression of a piano score that are not possible to notate. On your subject, I like Sibelius First (Free) for piano arranging. Though I liked Dorico SE as well which I thought had a beautiful look. I've tested Presonus Notion 6's handwriting recognition using a touch screen and pen on my windows laptop touch screen, and it recognizes the writing really well. Notion 6 has it's challenges for notating advanced piano arranging details but I have found some workarounds. I will look closer at Dorico SE as well. Thank you for your notation programs journey of discovery video here! Your results and work are impressive.
I should add that Notion 6 has an incredible jazz style for it's fonts and notation that matches the look of the infamous Real Book for jazz plyers. The look of the resulting lead sheets/chord sheets for jazz is really great. I can input a lead sheet with chords in about 10 minutes using Notion 6 and a pen on a touch screen such as an iPad or Windows laptop with a touch screen. Another case and point to use the tool that works best for your need.
So what does Drumline instrumentation sound like on it? VDL compared?
I don't play, so... can I use the music I fully write to put in my video productions? Are the sounds restricted and I am meant to play it myself?
If only Chromebooks could run this software too. I'd be totally down for it! 💪😎👍
Thank you for your video. I'm completely new to compositional software. I'm interested in getting my music ideas (I'm a pianist) into written format without having to painstakingly push a pencil and lose all my spontaneous ideas/textures. I am dreaming about a program where I can just simply play my keyboard and have what I'm playing show up on the screen. Does such a thing even exist? I appreciate your advice.
is Dorico compatible to Big Sur? great insight on this new music software (Sibelius user here for years)
Hello, loved your video. Hope you reply. I use LPX. Will Dorico work with my daw? I only have one Orchestra library: Hollywood Orchestra Opus Edition. Can I use this library with Dorico. Last question, learning from the start I figure I have to start with SE. I’m new at vomiting and learning orchestration and decades ( only a few) older but my spirit is to learn from you guys. Thank you again for up presentation🙏🏾🎹🎶
a urgent question: i use Sibelius now, all big pieces are notated over there. When I switch to Dorico (suppose I don't continue subscribing it any more), how can I move all my previous pieces from Sibelius to Dorico? Many thanks.
So is the note entry -- getting the music in the measure -- faster than in Sibelius right? Because that's my main thing. I don't care so much about bells and whistles but this.
One other question: Do either Sibelius or Dorico have much in the way of algorithmic composition aids, e.g. enter two notes and it will string a scale between them? Or invert a theme upside down (say for a fugue)?
These questions are from a tired Finale user, ready to make the jump to one of these other two... (Finale remains very un-easy to do simple note entry in.)
Thank you, Huei-Yuan, for the video. I have a couple of questions/observations.
First, I've been a Finale user for some time, although I am by no means an expert user. Recently, I received notification on its upcoming v27 release. Your observation is completely accurate. Namely, the makers of seasoned notation software products like Finale are, in my opinion, working in "automatic mode" and not really listening to its customer base. Don't get me wrong. The application is superb and functionally deep, but it also is exceptionally tedious to use. You can tell the developers are in their comfort zone, because little has been done over the years to improve, for example, the end-user experience. When I open Finale, I get the sense of working on a user interface that was cutting edge in its late-80s/early-90s. Frankly, it is off-putting by today's standards.
Integration is a second concern for me. For example, Finale allegedly complies with the Music XML standard, but transferring Finale content in this form to other notation software produces less than satisfactory results. This is not unique to Finale; neither is it unique to the music notation software industry. I've come across data modeing applications purport to use meta-modeling standards for data sharing models across disparate data modeling software supporting the same meta-model standard. Needless to say, well, let me stop here...
So, integration is important to me, especially as a Cubase user. With respect, Cubase's score editing capability is amateurish at best. In all fairness, this is not a core Cubase capability. Yet, you will see Steinberg advocate for Cubase in part due to its score editing feature set. As you noted in this video, the Dorico team is a spin-off from Cubase's score editing efforts. I remember using the Logic MIDI-only edition, back when Emagic owned it. Its score editor was superior by comparison to Cubase's score editor. In fact between its exceptional MIDI sequencing capability, its score editing feature set and the Logic "Environment", that was one hell of an application. Back to integration, do you have first-hand experience with using Cubase and Dorico in a seamless integrated environment? For example, I would look for an integration capability whereby both Cubase and Dorico directly leverage each other's codebase in a way that allows one to share project files transparently - no jumping through hoops by saving and/or exporting files and having to have both applications open, which would only serve (a) to unnecessarily task the computer and (b) to reduce workflow to a swamp-like pace.
What are your thoughts? I look forward to your observations.
Hey, Is the Dorico good for writing notes compare with Sibelius?
thank you for this video. I just want to know what are the limitations of DORICO free version? Can I still do musical notati0n for SATB with multi-layer staff?
Dórico only allows two “players” with the free version. However you can add two players with two voices for each which would fit into two staves. Besides the player amount and engraving, you’re basically able to use all the other features of Dorico.
What's the piece of art in the background ? I kept wondering about it.
I've decided to jump across from Sibelius. I started with Sib at v1.2 and cried when I had to move to the ridiculous ribbon-based travesty after v6, but carried on because I 'knew' the software. Now, I simply can't get behind the ethos of Avid and their non-approach to customer service and the whole subscription system that you have to submit to just to get bug-fixes... sorry, updates... no, bug-fixes. I'm a couple of weeks into Dorico and beginning to find my feet more and more. Your video was hugely reassuring and the most balanced overview of coming to notation software. The way that Dorico has been designed from the finish line backwards, rather than being a constant bolt-on where you can't find anything in logical places. Whilst I am still feeling constrained by Dorico through my own limited experience as a user, I feel like I am on a much more healthy pathway! Thanks for your time and efforts.
With many musician, they are feeling AVID is harmful people in the music creating in the whole word !
Thank you for this video brother! I used Finale since the 1990s (still have the original floppy somewhere from version 1.0) and ran in on a mac quadra. Used it forever, but the last time I felt like it truly added useful features was finale 2000. It was always better playback (not really, plus I was writing parts for people to play live, I only needed a guess at what it sounded like), better interface (lol, no), etc. Meanwhile they made it crash more, forget my license, and killed compatibility. I would open up an old score and elements would be all out of place. Awful when I wanted to just open up an old piece and print a part.
But, the alternative only felt 5% more modern.
I stopped using score writers entirely when I quit teaching and went to paper only, but I find I miss the scorewriter workflow somewhat. I've been out of that game for so long I no longer know what other musicians are even doing.
Hi Huei. A wonderful video - thank you so much. I have the same experience as you. Sibelius 6.2 (love it!) and I did my 2011 imac upgrade to High Sierra (with Avid recommendation no less!) rendering my Sib almost useless. Scrolling at an absolute crawl. I'm jumping on board and getting Dorico after about 20 years with Sib. Thanks for the inspiration for a good Covid learning project!
Hi. I am looking for a tool to teach my son and me about music writing. I've use both finale and sibelius but I'd like to try this one. It must be great because if you swith after 15 and 5 years. That make me piqued my interes. Thank you
My Finale is 2011, so instead of the 2014, maybe I'll try the Dorico, thank you. Dorico Elements is lots cheaper than Pro once you're used to it.
Hi! Thank you for doing this video in 2020! I am seeing it in 2024. I think I will give Dorico a try. The playing field of music notation software is completely open for me. I am not coming from Finale or Sibelius but I have been contemplating those two for this first BIG project of mine. I am writing my first Jazz Bass Method Book. I have all the content ie. Transcriptions ready to begin inputting... but I have no music notation software. All my transcriptions are handwritten. I need to take the next step. I am writing a book about the walking bass lines of Oscar Pettiford. It will be A LOT of quarter notes and 1/8th notes. My macBook Pro is old...a 2015 model. I hope Dorico will work on it??? It has Mac OS Catalina 10.15.7. Yes, I need a new computer. Do you think Dorico SE would be best for my purpose? Thanks for your advice and the video! Best regards, Kurt
Hi Kurt! I think Dorico SE is a great place to start, and you’ll always have the option to upgrade if needed.
I would just check the system requirements for Dorico SE to confirm it will work on your machine.
Congrats on starting your book project, wishing you the very best of luck! 👏
... and what would the Musescore limitations be????
I recently got Dorico Pro and I really love this software. So easy to use. I would say to all Sibelius users to give it a try. You will not be sorry.
can you automate CC there?
I went from Sibelius to Dorico with the upgrade and used there 1/2 price special
And notion 6...?
Is a USB key needed?
i love to see people discussing this without believing that there is actually the best apps and workflow for engraving and sketching, and they don’t even mention them. If you don’t believe you don’t find it
so many things not working in Dorico. Loop, Half Tempo for example
Does any notation software have a shortcut for writing in sticking?
Sibelius does. I’m sure Dorico will as well…eventually.
Current state for sticking in Dorico as of Summer 2020 answered here by John ua-cam.com/video/Bq0E5G0nFuo/v-deo.html
Noah Cook Shift + L in Dorico for the Lyrics tool, and the key is to use the arrow key to advance to the next note (as opposed to the space bar).
One of my friends used to use Score by Leyland Smith and told me that it was very malleable. But then, she was writing scores for Pierre Boulez and others of that calibre. Now all the people I mentionned are dead and I don't know where it went. I do remember that the Smith family were very defensive about their software and did not let anyone see the Fortran sources (yes!, Fortran). So maybe it's dead as a dodo.
Any comments?
SCORE was before I started using music notation software, but my understanding it was a pioneering program adopted by music professionals and publishers beginning in the 80’s and 90’s. After a little reading, one of things that would have made it attractive to users like me is it’s fine grain control over getting the score to look exactly as you like.
It seems like there was a sharp learning curve with the program, with its newness in the space, but also at a time when computers and technology weren’t as prevalent and widely accessible as they are now to the prosumer or general public audience. The most amazing thing to me is how such high-level, professional grade production is available to everyone now, closing the gap between what can be produced at home independent of any backing from a huge company or institution.
Here’s an article I found if anyone else is interested in reading more about SCORE: www.scoringnotes.com/news/leland-smith-dies-at-88/
Thanks, Henri!
I will only use Dorico Pro from now on, because Avid is corrupt and their software is junk, however 3.5 has so many strange behaviors, like messing up time signature changes, strange problems with cut & paste, no documentation about the bundled VST instruments, only one global type of text notation, bizarre anchoring problems for extra-notational aspects like horizontal brackets and such.. and today trying to find documentation for how it's booklet printing works yet there is almost nothing to describe how it works..
07:30 It should never be necessary to "go to the software forum" to solve problems, because that is what a product manual or user guide is for. If software has proper documentation there is no need to "google for answers" unless it is an unknown bug in the software.
Just switched from MuseScore to Sibelius.....
Switching from musescore thinking to sibelius..difficult to crack free sibelius tho
Probably dorico?
I bought Sibelius. I have to say - It's very good program!
What made you switch from Musescore? I honestly haven’t found anything Musescore can’t do
@@GrimesMusic I think musescore is not really proffesional, It's missing alot functions and the playback sounds crappy, it doesn't support note performer.
it's noah, you were my sixth grade percussion teacher. long time no see, just wanted to say hi!
Hi Noah! Of course, I remember - thanks for saying hi, I hope you're still playing - so much natural talent!
...and now switching again to MuseScore 4.1 😁... at no cost whatsoever 😁😁
kind of sounds like finale sucks. it must be phenominal at something since it is so dominant. what is so great about it ?
You need to keep in mind that the version of Finale dissed in this video was from many years ago. I use a fairly current version a bit; I don't love it, but it can definitely produce a professional-looking score more easily than you'd expect from just listening to somebody talking about a version from years ago.
@@alkanista I also own a Finale software and use it for years. Waiting for updates with new features for years now. The newest version of this product is 2014!! No update since then. No AI included or added e.g. for better and faster composing possibilities (I would love tempo recognition when I compose on my piano without a click).
@@michaelzerbs2024 The newest version of Finale is more recent than 2014. I have an earlier version than the most recent one, and it is from 2019. I think the most recent one is from this year, but don't know for certain.
Here is something interesting; just download Musescore, its free and it works great and has consistent updates. Try it.
switching to Sebelius from Finale after over 20 years
Sadly, having to leave Sibelius 7.5 because of cost of upgrading to Ultimate subscription model - Dorico is looking like a sensible alternative without the subscription. Thanks for your excellent video.
Seriously! This resonates with me so much! Avid single handedly destroyed Sibelius. I loved it so much until Avid came into the picture and got really greedy and left their customers out of their equation.
@@Drwhispin Spot on Dr Whispin! I absolutely refuse to be forced into a rip-off subscription model in which I lose access to my own documents if I ever stop paying them 'rent'! :-(
완전 공감 저는 18년…
I was interested in Dorico cos it was created by the Sibelius development team - Avid sacked them all and moved everything to Russia.
My Mac is now Big Sur - i love the OS but: Sibelius 8 does not run properly on this system. Yes you can input notes but you can’t input written text… not good.
Also, Avid want me to pay again for the upgrades that I have already paid for - I bought a year’s subscription for version 8 - i don’t like subscriptions so I stopped after that year.
Maybe it’s now time to take the plunge.
I wrote the above comments about half way thru’ your video;-)
Aha !! I've been wondering what the heck is up with Sibelius. Now I know, Grr.....I hate them !!!
Oh wait, no, I'm on Monterey. But dynamics and technique commands aren't giving me a cursor.
(I transferred Sib 8 to my new computer, and seems like Sib has dumbed itself down !!!)
A
Is dorico free?
No, It's not. And It's quite expensive.
Dorico is a joke. For over 500 francs and then you have to search and
insert any additional files somewhereon web , so that the instrument names are
in German and the keyboard layout is changed to Switzerland...
i think sibelius is the best for professionals
i’m broke
you can invest in transcription of song sheets and chords using free apps. You can do it with a guitar and a phone
I was ok until you said you were sponsored. Can’t really be honest.
BTW, I did end up getting Dorico. There are some things that seem to work more easily in Sibelius, but Dorico really does have a lot of great ideas for workflow.
this is an advertisement, Steinberg liceinsed
If you could talk less that would be good. The 26 mins could be 5 mins.
You talk too much without action
too much talking.....
Thank you, Huei-Yuan, for your talking, it´s great! Gives me much information...