Vintage Zenith Defy Restoration - BUT WILL IT DEFY ME?
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- Will this Vintage Zenith Defy, Defy Me? watch to find out!!!!
To see more on the finished watch and its backstory. Please head on over to my second channel where I review and explain more on this Zenith.
Link: • 1970's Vintage Zenith ...
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My Second channel: / @mywatchreviews
Chapters
Intro 00:00 - 01:29
Disassembly 01:29 - 16:35
Cleaning Montage 16:35 - 18:22
Assembly 18:22 - 01:01:05
Finished Watch 01:01:05 - 01:05:03
Movement holder used in the video: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dnm...
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#watchrestoration #watchmaking #vintagezenith - Розваги
Hi guys welcome to the comments! Please remember to like the video if you enjoyed it. It helps more than you know. Also please head on over to my other channel to hear the backstory of the Zenith and see more close-ups of the finished watch. ua-cam.com/video/7lb94ETiMag/v-deo.html
Lift angle in the timegrapher needs to be changed to 53 vice the 50 which it detected.
@@jjyork201 yes I found this out after posting the video. Won’t change the accuracy but will change the amplitude.
Actually runs really nice at +4 seconds a day
😊^^ee~
@@jjyork201 Rolex watches
😊 41:34 41:35
@@MyRetroWatches
😊 44:23 😊😊😊
I love that you show your mistakes. Makes me like the videos even more. It makes you human. That’s refreshing
I really like the patina on this dial, very different. It's rather dark and mysterious in my opinion. I like that you show it, it is reality. Keep up the good work sir and good health to you.
Amazing showing of your own defiance!
This might be the most entertaining horology video
I 've ever seen.
Gods bless you.
Thanks for the upload.
I can’t tell if this is a compliment or sarcasm 😂😂
I went back in your video and that tube for the second hand wheel was pressed all the way in. I do the same, just take pictures between steps of disassembly. Fun video!👏
I was glad to see that you needed to redo the click after I saw a bit of fiber debris get trapped under the wheel on first placement.
More reassuring to watch the struggles and successes tan to see "total perfection" in one sitting. Thanks for being real.
I appreciate that and its why I show it like it is. This channel is the reality of hobbyist watchmaking.
Fine piece even with the broken part, i have been looking for a zodiac lately,solid performance.
Kettle on.... I'll sit and chill for the next hour. 😃
Just blame my sisters for the redo. They distracted you. I got your back buddy. Love these videos and to see the real struggle.
This is your best video...I love the problem solving. Thank you.
Thank you. Pleased you like this one. It does not seem to be getting the views I had hoped for this one.
I love the dial, and what a smooth sweep from that high beat movement. I'll cross my fingers for your friend that a spare part turns up to fix the date complication. Great job as always. 👍
Thanks
I agree with your comment on handwinding springs.
What an amazing journey....and such a great video. I love that you leave your mistakes in. It makes the video's even better, more entertaining, and helpful in the learning process.
Thank you Thomas. We all learn from mistakes and that’s why I include them!
perseverance pays off. good job..
Well done Mike, you have great patience!. If I may offer advice..... Get to bed earlier!! Great job. Love the watch.
Haha. I finished the rebuild at 01.30am
@@MyRetroWatches just mind yourself mate. 👍⌚
I found myself holding my breath when you were putting the hands on, hope that helped.
Nice job, and way to persevere!! I admit my tension levels rise as I watch you fight some of these things...its just too familiar!😂😂
Well done ! You got there through all the trials & tribs plus its actually quite a nice looking piece.
Good job Mike - brilliant restoration and a lovely watch.
Nearly went for my Fred Perry and loafers when the cleaning music came on. 😀
Nothing wrong with that look as far as I am concerned.
An epic adventure with that one! Turned out great though.
thanks.
Great job , We'll done. Thanks Mike
Still got the touch Michael! Well done! Ticks like a good 'un.
Gracias amigo, greetings from Mexico!
Well done Mike! Thoroughly enjoyed this restoration and now off to see the review. Your patience is incredible but it certainly paid off with this little beauty.
Glad you enjoyed it! some of the problems were caused by me though.
Thanks for another excellent video. Really appreciated.
I love you leaving all the trials and tribulatios in the videos, Mike. It helps deomonstrate that the art of the watchmaker is not an easy one to master Thanks for sharing.
Thank you John. I am just like most guys so we all have the same issues when working . Makes me look more genuine and not the polished pro that I will never be.
Nice to see a good old watch repair video again Mike, thanks for sharing.
More to come!
Nice video, Mike.
Thanks
Simon
great channel, nice you keep your mistakes or rather misfortune in the process in...mighty fine rebuild!
cheers from germany
Thank you. I just try to keep it as close to reality as possible. This is now this hobby is. I can edit all the mistakes out and live in the glory of how good I am but I would be dishonest!
Lovely job Michael ❤❤
Best video yet. I've just started so frustration has become my middle name. I thoroughly enjoyed your journey and your defeating the defy.
try not to get frustrated. Its all muscle memory this hobby. Invest in a decent pair of tweezers like Dumont. I use Dumont 00 Hitech abut £20 but its the pair I use 90% of the time, they are hardened to so not deform. Really helps control. Same with some good screwdrivers. Everything else can be upgraded as you improve. Microscopes help but its more of an investment.
Main thing is to enjoy and when its going wrong just laugh. Frustration leads to mistakes.
Very nice job, nice video and a very , very nice watch! thanks!
I’m with you with peg wood and springs. I make sure the spring is fully recessed before removing the peg wood. With the horrible click and spring on the Felsa 1560 movement (you had a lot of trouble) I used my flat plastic tool. Short leg in first, held flat in position, and the long bit went in first time.
I think we all just find a method that works. This is usually after loosing so many parts we find a way to limit that😂
Great job Mike!!! Very interesting video 😊
Amazing and challenging restoration with a great outcome. I feel your pain with the winders, and I’ll share my own little rant. I caught so much flack hand winding springs, but never once had an issue. Get the winders, they said. It would be better, they said… yes I’ve ruined my fair share of mainsprings with them. My approach now- If they don’t hook right away, I stop messing with it and simply hand wind as before.
I’m glad I am not alone with winders. For me its when I am removing the handle. I can wind in the opposite direction to unhook but if the end coil is tight on the shaft despite holding it with a razor blade or tweezers on occasion it will jump out and ruin it.
I have had only a few hand winding go wrong . One was my first ever because I tried to wind it the wrong way and any other time it’s because the bridal snapped.
Thanks for dropping by and I will be sure to check out your new video. Think it’s a pocket watch right?
I’ve never actually worked on one yet!
@@MyRetroWatches yes this one was near death. It was a lot of fun. I had to learn how to make screws for the first time!
@@csspinner your watchmaking is on another level. I have still a very long way to go.
Great work 👏
Thanks
Nice one 💪👍
Great job 👍
I bought a Chinese set of mainspring winders a few months back, mainly because I was aware of the possible damage and difficulty in doing things by hand. I did try a couple by hand, and one was OK-ish, the other burst out right at the very end, just as I was counting my chickens, so this put me right off, and besides even the one I did properly, there was a fine wire edge that had scraped off the mainspring. The Chinese set did have steel hooks, but did not have any bespoke Seiko winders, so I used the 8200 winder, and it did a perfect job, although had to tap it out with a brass hammer. But getting to the point, I mix and match handles and directions to used the winders, rather than buying bespoke winders or doing by hand. Sometimes the handle will need a bit (lot) of support and the cover does not enclose the whole spring, but I feel the spring is in better shape when the winder does the work. I don't know if Bergeon handles/barrels can be mixed and matched to accomodate this
The way I look at it is you only really use a few sizes for me 6 and 7 mainly. I already bought a new 6 Bergeon handle as mine was too worn at the hook.
You can buy each size singly so if I was starting again I’d just pay out for a few regular sizes and go from there.
Love it.... 😊
I would go mad about the parts. Crafted hero!
Great video, as usual. I believe the two blued screws indicate that they hold on the automatic module.
Great stuff again mate!
Hi mate, thanks!
Congrats from tijuana, mexico.
That was a slug fest of hanging in there and getting it done. Good job, I always learn from you. Good health buddy
Thank you. Some of the issues were caused by me in the first place 😂
Springs for me is basically 2 sticks one is holding the spring down and the other is moving it around, bzt in the end whatever works. But I rarely do watches I do soldering of microelectronics alot though.. used to do that for a living for a bit.
Nice job. I would just polish a bit of hands with a leather file. Beautiful watch.
You would not believe it but I did! With my Bergeon pen but it didn’t do much for them. They are quite corroded.
Hello Mike,
I really enjoyed your version of the Watch Defying Service. I particularly like that you leave the tricky bits in the video as they are learning points for the community. It’s not that hard to bend the main spring back with the right amount of heating, for 8 pounds it was a decent price though. Instead of peg wood when installing springs you could try a plastic wide flat blade tool. I learned that from another channel and had a few from a cell phone repair tool kit I had on hand.
Great job struggling through this one, I cheered your victory.
Cheers,
G.
Thanks. I am happy with peg wood to be fair but just interested in what others use.
Also always like to leave any mistakes and problem solving in . Makes it more real.
Thanks Mike
Hey Mike, No grease on or under the date indicator driving wheel or a tiny tiny drop of hp1300 on the edge of the hole. Nice movement and nice work Mike.
Thanks. I figured as it’s metal on metal it would need something. Thanks for the clarification
YES !!!!!!!!! More of the Good Stuff !!!!!!
That was a major struggle, and so frustrating that you can't find the part you need. Really useful warning about the specialised winders you need for these movements. I'm busy being driven crazy by an EB 8800 that i just cant get working when the keyless, main movement and calendar are all installed, any 2 and the work fine, all 3 and nope something goes wrong.
For mainsprings you really need a 7 clockwise and counterclockwise for seiko and some other brands. 6 and 5 are usually in clockwise enough for the rest.
Also the 6 can go into the 7 winder if the arbor is to large on the winder.
Mike, I don't think there is a watch that can defy you. Nice work!
I find My No 1000 timegrapher can vary wildly depending if its in the movement holder or case or on its own. I want to get a Witschi Watch Expert but they are so expensive. Nice job though!! 👌
agreed. They can pick up extra vibrations especially if the movement it not tight in the holder. I tend to double check at the end of a build once in the case as this is the best reading you will get, in my opinion anyway. Thanks for watching.
Mike, hope over to Alex Hamilton's UA-cam channel It's About Time, in the last week he did a video about safely bending mainsprings - exactly what happened to you.
I don't have Bergeon winders (too bloody expensive) so I bought the larger set of better quality Chinese ones. Reasonably well made but have yet to find one that fits an actual spring! A Timex almost fitted but half way through the wind it stopped winding and damaged the groove. So now I wind them in by hand. All it takes is strong fingers an a good sense of how much handling a part can take. There's even a name for it - mechanical sympathy - and watchmenders need it on buckets anyway, so there!
Yes I was made aware of this video but only after I had got angry with my spring and binned it!
If the reversing wheels give any grief, there's stuff for them called LubEta which is basically 9010 dissolved in gasoline - you dunk the wheels in them, and when the solvent evaporates it leaves the lubricant behind on the wheels, so as to avoid excess lubricant gumming them up.
I wonder, does mixing 9010 and gasoline yourself give the same effect?
@@DutchClawz I've seen a 3% 9010/97% gasoline solution used elsewhere.
Yes I’ve seen that stuff. Rolex guys use it on the wheels.
Some point I will get some but like anything it’s justifying the cost.
For my own watches I don’t feel it matters. I have so many that they are statistically not worn all that much .
Mike, have you seen the stuff for cleaning those composite wheels in the auto works? When it evaporates off it leaves behind a film of oil.
I hope you didn't have work the next morning? My wife would kill me if I stayed up tinkering with my projects! Good job not giving up on it.
That can be frustrating 😒. Tools aren't always made to factory specs. The "too big" shaft on your mainspring winder may have ruined your mainspring. Your friend, Jeff.
You can duit master, 👏👏🤞🤞🤞🤝🤝
It always blows my mind that you can work on movements you've never seen before, with parts that sometimes look like they were made by Dr. Seuss, and keep at it - despite your mistakes - without losing your patience. I guess that only comes with time, experience and discipline. The only thing a bit wonky with this watch is the bracelet, but that can be very easily rectified, one would think.
Question: how many times do you think that watch had been serviced in the past? There are so many scratches inside - which I trust weren't your doing - on so many pieces that either the one service it had was done by a fiddle-fuddle or it was serviced several times by slightly less fiddle-fuddly people. In any case it was great to see another restoration so true to your ethos of "Jump in there, get to work, and crack on with it!"
Thanks Alex. Most of my repair videos over the last two years have all been first time movements. It adds to the fun but they do all follow a similar principle so apart from some tricky springs you generally know what is in store.
As for the scratches its a complete mystery. A few others have commented on them too but they were there on disassembly. Not sure if its other watchmakers as there is no real service marks and I would doubt it would be caused by a professional. Equally my friend who owns the watch has now only just told me it was his fathers!
I like the movement holder you use, the on which clamps and spins. Its not in the tool list can you advise where to get one please. Great video by the way.
Not suitable for all movements only certain sizes. s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DnmTdSV
I Do like you movement holder. Who makes it. Loved the video....
There is a link in the description now Simon. Its from China! tyically.
This one was a bit of a bear to wrestle with. Glad to see it didn't defeat you. Nice job. It's a shame you couldn't find the part to repair the day wheel. That's the problem with vintage watches. While most parts are able to be sourced there is always going that one part you can't find anywhere.
Thank you Jeff.
Love the videos. I really like the movement holder you’re using. Are these still available?
Yes. It does not fit all movements though. I have actually modified a vintage adjustable movement holder to fit into the base too. Mainly use it for filming so I dont go out of shot .
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003348306440.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.13.59b94a175mrDKi&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40000.326746.0&scm_id=1007.40000.326746.0&scm-url=1007.40000.326746.0&pvid=0a575d2f-cf7a-467b-8f7e-784ebfd746ef&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40000.326746.0,pvid:0a575d2f-cf7a-467b-8f7e-784ebfd746ef,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238109%23217&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21GBP%2128.13%2128.13%21%21%21%21%21%40211b613116811727669953706ecc2b%2112000025344542473%21rec%21UK%213621925699
Really nice to see fantasic but may I say 34.13 second you left a hair under the wheel. But a really nice rebuild.
I will take a look at that thanks. Sometimes very hard to see stuff like that with all the cameras etc. Pleased you enjoyed the video.
On eta movements, the blued screws hold the automatic works on. They do that so you know how to remove the automatic works first.
I never knew that so thank you. Makes sense now.
Hard job, today!!!
Familiar because it is an ETA 2832 branded zenith. Like the blue day-date discs
Would its 28,800 bph Cousin, the ETA 2828/2836 possibly have the same calendar parts? A 2836 is a much more common movement.
From the manuals I have their calendar setup is completely different
Great Video Thank You. Hope it does not deter you from maybe tackling another Zenith say a 2562PC. It may give me the courage to have a go at mine.
Not at all, I really liked this one to be fair. A little problem solving and some mistakes. End result is a nice watch running really sweetly.
The blued screws in this movement are letting the watch maker known witch screws to take out to remove the automatic winding complication.
Thank you I did not know this .
Do you think that maybe a drop of oil bridged the balance spring causing the high beat, which dispersed later along the spring allowing it to return to the correct beat. Great work btw, I'm still scared of self winding and calender complications 😆
That is probably what happened. There was some gunk on the hair spring that got cleaned off.
No I didn’t go near the spring with oil.
Had the spring been stuck the Watch would have been running incredibly fast as you are shortening the hairspring .
It was the Timegrapher not being able to hear properly the way I had the movement held.
In the review video on my second channel I do a fast forward 6 minutes on the TG and it’s was flatlining at +4 seconds a day.
871 thumbs up
On the gasket goo front I've had a few watches(most originated in France for some reason)where they had a thankfully brief 70's invention; "liquid" gasket, a kind of very slow running bitumen type deal, presumably to save watchmakers(or more likely local jewellers) from having to keep massive stocks of normal gaskets?
Horrid stuff to deal with. In one particularly bad example I had, a 72 Girard Perregaux quartz, the "watchmaker" had laid it on thick and it had crept its way past the movement holder(jamming it in the case all around) and had gotten as far as the other side just like your Zenith. Thankfully it hadn't affected the vanishingly rare dial, but it was a total curse to clean it all out. Now to be fair I don't have a tenth of your skills so...
I have another watch I want to bring to the channel soon and that also has the same issue. When I touched it I could not wash it off for days !
Well, that one fought back, but you won eventually. Did that part break 'in the wash', or was it previously broken, and the fragment removed? Did you track down a replacement?
It was missing on strip down too. No replacement
It's interesting that it only has the days of the week in Italian.
I know, I mention this in the review video on my second channel. I think its the only watch I have ever seen with just Italian.
@@MyRetroWatchesItaly was a large market for Zenith, some Zeniths were made only for the Italian dealers.
Looks a lot like the Pulsar 2001
love your channel. the moments like 34:18 make me CRINGE, but I know I make the same mistakes sometimes, so it becomes even better!
34:43 ughhhh that "there we go" RESONATES
the way I tackle springs is the same as yours pretty much, but I use a component probe (i.e. a hard plastic stick) instead of pegwood, it's more rigid and doesn't leave wood flakes around.
you should have lubricated the groove on the sliding clutch that the yoke engages with.
speaking of lubrication, my go-to principles are:
1. 9010 for the cap jewels, the escape wheel and the fourth wheel. I NEVER lubricate the pallet fork pivots, that steals 50-100º of amplitude right away
2. 9104 (HP1300) for all other pivots where the friction is rotational, regardless of whether it's metal-on-metal or metal-on-ruby
3. 9501/9504 for all the metal-on-metal connections where the friction is sliding instead of rotational
4. 8213 for the barrel wall in automatic movements - braking
5. 8200 for the mainspring, three dots in the barrel below the spring and three dots on the spring's top.
6. 9415 for the pallet jewels.
when I'm not sure, I generally tend to use HP1300. I apply the amount of grease that's not visible to the naked eye, if it is - I clean it with rodico or even dunk the part in IPA and start over. I'm kinda annoyed by having to use two organic greases, but that's what I have now, maybe later I'll replace them with the synthetic alternatives.
you're measuring the movement amplitude with your timegrapher set to 50º lift angle, while the actual lift angle of 2832 is 53º. that can't explain your 140º reading, I don't think, but having the correct lift angle setting is very important.
@@_f355 good tips. I found in an ETA manual 2824 which I used as a bit of a guide for this I was amazed by how much 1300 is used.
😂nobodys perfect👍🏻
Some older watches have a lot of random scratches on the plates. Is this from previous cleanings, or did they come unpolished from the factory?
A good question that I cannot answer. I’ve noticed myself that sometimes they have scratches. Could be other hobbyist or just how they were. The macro lens hides no prisoners
I’ve done exactly the same thing with the hour wheel and wondering why things weren’t meshing - while working on it after midnight
Why don’t you use rodico to hold springs and stop them flying off during tear down instead of peg wood? It’s used to pick bits up so I’m assuming it’s ok?…. Thoughts, anyone?
Rodico sticks. Peg wood does not. Easy to get rodico stuck behind a spring on fitting.
My method works fine for me I am just interested how others combat the same problem
Yeah I get that it’s no good when your rebuilding a watch but I thought on the strip down it doesn’t matter as the movement is getting cleaned anyway so it’ll stop the spring flying off when your taking it apart- thought it would make things a bit easier 👍
@@swanney75 I used to use it but found just holding it with the wood was enough.
:)
I need that movement holder. Can you provide the info?
s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_Dl6L85p
Have you done a course in watch repair if so where.
No I have just taught myself
Could anyone in your audience lend you a same watch to take a photo of the part that sheered and have it manufactured/ fabricated?
Another example of how a silly glitch can drive you crazy or ruin a good watch.
Looks like a bit of an escapement wheel issue based off those lines on your timegrapher. May not be completely true
If you head over to my review channel and watch the continuation you will see that its running much sweeter. +4 seconds and pretty much a straight line.
I habe seen in other videos, that they mix for ETA. So 7 barrel and 6 shaft.
If the mainspring winder is too large,why not put it in the lathe and reduce the diametre
Because you would then also need to hone out the hole in the winder to suit. doing this makes it then only fit a ETA 11mm barrel. You can actually buy specific winder for ETA.
Base of all the shafts have a hook too so you could not turn without removing the hook and re-pinning to the shaft. A lot of work.
Why do you not clean the hands? I like the patina on the dial but not on the hands. Personally of course
I tried to polish them with the Bergeon dial cleaning tool made no difference. A lot of corrosion
An ETA movement in a Zenith??? I'm shocked. I always thought Zenith always used in house.
I am pretty sure this was a movement only for Zenith.
why not polishing the hands?
You should not be scratching up the movement sliding springs into place with steel tweezers. There are plastic tools meant for those tasks
Each to their own. I am not sure I scratched it.
Do you feel better, Villian? Scolding a UA-camr who you don’t know for nothing? Please upload one of your own watch repair videos, and I’ll be sure to criticize you for every infraction.
@@chuckfinley3542 Do you have any idea what scolding is? My comment was to inform of best practices and nothing else. I only commented because there is clear video footage of him putting deep scratches on a nice movement. Get a life, you’re wasting your time commenting such mindless things.
How long the oil & grease going to last? Then again Swiss sell the mames, one pow8er plant many names. Like BLMC. Japanese sell the Technology
Is this mschin of ETA
That movement not cheap to buy for parts by the looks of things..
And all this because the Spanish monk who was copying the Arab book about Astronomy, wrote down the Arab words for the top/highest point in the sky, Al Zamth So sloppy that the next monk copying his writings read Ze ni th, the m changed into an n and an i ...And Since that time we call the highest point in the sky Zenith, in stead of Zamth Arabs do not write vowels.. So and a or e, depending on the markings on the other letters in Z'mth :) I'm sure Some old dead monk is still laughing some where..
I had no idea of all of that!!