We used a pair of nice condenser mics for years mounted in the harp. It was good, but not great. That was the system I inherited. Several months ago I upgraded to the Earthworks and the improvement in quality is impressive. We have a full choir, praise team, rhythm section, and small orchestra, but we are piano-led and it helps to have the best sound we can get from it.
Sometimes the church just uses what's available. On our full sized grand piano half-stick, we have a SM57 on a boom mic stand at the open side, aimed diagonally at the strings for A5, about 6 inches back from the hammers. It is physically closer to the higher strings but they are off axis. Then, we have a beta58A for bass. It's also on a boom stand and aimed diagonally but far from the hammers. It is aimed at the point where the lower strings overlap. Blending these two gives us both clarity and fullness. I like these positions, but would prefer to try out different mics in these positions.
I pretty much agree with your assessments. I guess I’m not very picky, because I usually use either a pair of small diaphragm condensers or SM57s pointing in from floor stands. I have seen others just lay a vocal mic with a foam windscreen inside the piano.
I thought the Earthworks sounded better than the Audix, but that could also be hw my computer audio is configured, my Peavey HKS8 speakers, and my 70 year old ears. But I wouldn't have a problem using either. It would have been nice to hear them with the Choir at it's normal volume for part of the test to see how each mixed. And I do tend to leave humming the kick drum quite often, but I started playing drums back in the mid 60's so I'm a bit biased. ;)
I am so very happy we no longer have a real piano to deal with. Great info and it seems to me that the mic choice depends on what you want to do with your instrument. If I understand this correctly, having multiple mic choices available to get it closer to your goal before EQ will only make your workflows smoother. Did I get it right? Or did I completely miss the mark?
Preferred the earthworks. We previously used Rode NT5 matched pair on an upright piano, which worked well for us. They are far more affordable than this great sounding $1700-3000 option.
I like the brighter Audix pair over the Earthworks. We are currently using matched Rode M5's in our baby grand. I wish we could completely close the lid but the mic mount system we have does not allow it. We do a mix of contemporary and the old tried and true hymns. Along with the piano we have an acoustic guitar, bass and drums. The drums are on the opposite side of the platform from the piano to reduce mic bleed as much as possible.
I have been using the Earthworks Piano Mic systems for several years on a Steinway B (7ft) and it has worked very well when used for acoustic worship sets. It is really tough to use any mic'd piano with a praise band and mostly only bad can happen. For those circumstances I gutted an old piano and placed a Nord Piano inside which most think is real. To be honest unless you have a great piano that is in tune, great equipment, great player and great sound tech you almost always will get better sound with a premium keyboard and reasonable sound system.
Mics 1 seem duller and a bit out of phase. Mics 2 brighter and better imaging. Both pick up a fair amount of room noise which could be a problem in a mix where there is stage volume from drums, etc.
I'll check that one out! Was just shooting a video at another church with a grand piano and that'll be one of their next purchases. It's gaff taped for now.
Great video! We have tried lots of combos on the piano, and found that the cost is never the primary consideration with pairing mics to an instrument or a vocalist. I like how you paired the kick drum boundary mic for some additional tone in the Audix mix. We tried a Behringer BA19A for this several months ago, and had trouble even getting the mic to send a signal into the board without clipping. The main reason for this was because there was no signal until the gain was almost maxed out, and then it behaved like a gate and clipped like crazy.......would love to know if you have experience with this budget mic, and if you think it might be defective, or if there is another characteristic that makes it a one trick pony in the kick drum?
Both are great but because you have the PZM option, I ended up liking slightly more the Audix with PZM - the EarthWorks sounds fuller in the low midrange and maybe is better in the context of Choir and Piano only - but I think the Audix+PZM might be the better option if you have a band.
It seemed like the Earthworks were panned harder? Any advice on how much to pan matched pairs? Closed lid vs half and full stick seems to make a huge difference.
Hey James: I was wondering about the solo songs that Jon does. perhaps there is the EQ you mentioned? The low end on those recordings really sounds great and full. I was surprised at my first listen. curious.
Can I have a separate mix for the musicians headphones mix without effecting the main. If we change the eq compression it changes the main mix as well. I use studiolive 32
Yes! Most people buy another board for monitors and share inputs. Of course, then you’ll want a monitor board engineer but in smaller setups you can sometimes get away with double duty.
I faced this decision a couple years ago and decided to put the Audix in our Steinway and I don’t regret it in the least. Killer mics.
We used a pair of nice condenser mics for years mounted in the harp. It was good, but not great. That was the system I inherited. Several months ago I upgraded to the Earthworks and the improvement in quality is impressive. We have a full choir, praise team, rhythm section, and small orchestra, but we are piano-led and it helps to have the best sound we can get from it.
Sometimes the church just uses what's available. On our full sized grand piano half-stick, we have a SM57 on a boom mic stand at the open side, aimed diagonally at the strings for A5, about 6 inches back from the hammers. It is physically closer to the higher strings but they are off axis. Then, we have a beta58A for bass. It's also on a boom stand and aimed diagonally but far from the hammers. It is aimed at the point where the lower strings overlap. Blending these two gives us both clarity and fullness. I like these positions, but would prefer to try out different mics in these positions.
I pretty much agree with your assessments. I guess I’m not very picky, because I usually use either a pair of small diaphragm condensers or SM57s pointing in from floor stands. I have seen others just lay a vocal mic with a foam windscreen inside the piano.
Lol laying the mic in the piano is always an excellent choice. And that's not a windscreen it's a tone filter 🤣
I thought the Earthworks sounded better than the Audix, but that could also be hw my computer audio is configured, my Peavey HKS8 speakers, and my 70 year old ears. But I wouldn't have a problem using either. It would have been nice to hear them with the Choir at it's normal volume for part of the test to see how each mixed.
And I do tend to leave humming the kick drum quite often, but I started playing drums back in the mid 60's so I'm a bit biased. ;)
I am so very happy we no longer have a real piano to deal with. Great info and it seems to me that the mic choice depends on what you want to do with your instrument. If I understand this correctly, having multiple mic choices available to get it closer to your goal before EQ will only make your workflows smoother. Did I get it right? Or did I completely miss the mark?
Preferred the earthworks. We previously used Rode NT5 matched pair on an upright piano, which worked well for us. They are far more affordable than this great sounding $1700-3000 option.
I'd like to hear the mics together with the choir to compare how well the piano sounds.
Great video James--- I picked Mic 1, and we've been using the Earthworks PM 40 for 10 years at my church.
Is it hard pan left and right for PM 40 ?
@@stevenmok3000 we pan it hard left /right.
I like the brighter Audix pair over the Earthworks. We are currently using matched Rode M5's in our baby grand. I wish we could completely close the lid but the mic mount system we have does not allow it. We do a mix of contemporary and the old tried and true hymns. Along with the piano we have an acoustic guitar, bass and drums. The drums are on the opposite side of the platform from the piano to reduce mic bleed as much as possible.
I have been using the Earthworks Piano Mic systems for several years on a Steinway B (7ft) and it has worked very well when used for acoustic worship sets. It is really tough to use any mic'd piano with a praise band and mostly only bad can happen. For those circumstances I gutted an old piano and placed a Nord Piano inside which most think is real. To be honest unless you have a great piano that is in tune, great equipment, great player and great sound tech you almost always will get better sound with a premium keyboard and reasonable sound system.
Mics 1 seem duller and a bit out of phase. Mics 2 brighter and better imaging. Both pick up a fair amount of room noise which could be a problem in a mix where there is stage volume from drums, etc.
Have a look at REMIC P6100 with magnetic mounting, free placement and supporting open as well as closed piano lid
I'll check that one out! Was just shooting a video at another church with a grand piano and that'll be one of their next purchases. It's gaff taped for now.
Like the Audix. What make/model is the mounting bar for the audix?
Great video! We have tried lots of combos on the piano, and found that the cost is never the primary consideration with pairing mics to an instrument or a vocalist. I like how you paired the kick drum boundary mic for some additional tone in the Audix mix. We tried a Behringer BA19A for this several months ago, and had trouble even getting the mic to send a signal into the board without clipping. The main reason for this was because there was no signal until the gain was almost maxed out, and then it behaved like a gate and clipped like crazy.......would love to know if you have experience with this budget mic, and if you think it might be defective, or if there is another characteristic that makes it a one trick pony in the kick drum?
Hey James can you do a live mix walkthrough in your church pls and especially using ssl mixer pls
Both are great but because you have the PZM option, I ended up liking slightly more the Audix with PZM - the EarthWorks sounds fuller in the low midrange and maybe is better in the context of Choir and Piano only - but I think the Audix+PZM might be the better option if you have a band.
great observations :)
It seemed like the Earthworks were panned harder? Any advice on how much to pan matched pairs? Closed lid vs half and full stick seems to make a huge difference.
Hey James: I was wondering about the solo songs that Jon does. perhaps there is the EQ you mentioned? The low end on those recordings really sounds great and full. I was surprised at my first listen. curious.
Only DPA 4099 🤷
What du you think about the new neumann mcm for Piano/String Instruments?
Can I have a separate mix for the musicians headphones mix without effecting the main. If we change the eq compression it changes the main mix as well. I use studiolive 32
Yes! Most people buy another board for monitors and share inputs. Of course, then you’ll want a monitor board engineer but in smaller setups you can sometimes get away with double duty.
🥰🙌💥
The choir sounds Ukrainian to me
They are lol, its our church! Attaway came to visit our church to give our volunteers more education.