Devastating Feedback for my Micro Bakery - part 2
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- This is what the first customer has to say about the first bread of my delivery micro bakery.
Thanks again Alex for providing the review!
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Part 1: • Opening Up A Delivery ...
Part 2: • Devastating Feedback f...
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:32 The review
11:08 Closing words
#bread #sourdough - Навчання та стиль
I think that this is an incredibly honest video. Hard to be so open about receiving judgement. 2 thumbs up!
Things to improve:
- Replace lidl knive
- bake on a lower temperature/position? So the top doesnt burn that quickly and the crust gets more crispy
- express🤣
ALL delivery services are slow this time of year due to the sheer volume of packages going out across the globe. I'm just remembering when my friend on the east coast (USA) sent me some of his sourdough starter, it took 7 days to reach me here in California! I think your bread looks fabulous, despite its extended travel time.
Next time I think you should do a 2 loaf recipe. Keep one and send the other off. Have them let you know when they get it and then both finish your bakes at the same time. Then you do a side by side comparison of the one that got shipped. It could also help figure out what is opinion and what is not. If you want to ship one to the US Northwest let me know haha!
I agree. And the one you keep should be kept in plastic also so it's as close as possible to the one that was posted.
That’s a great idea, and as an experiment it fits with the scientific bent of this channel.
In the same vein it might be worth shipping your sample back to yourself. Then bake at the same time as your guinea pigs. ;)
One other thing. To really test it, ship one to me in S. California. Much better test than the northeast coast!
@@eraf2135 In that case have three loaves so that the third is a control ie no plastic bag.
The loaves on this guy to record a real time reaction. Good job. You're inspiring me to learn to bake bread, and I'm getting close to trying my first sourdough. Many thanks!
when I put the video on the volume was low, but I gathered that Alex is a woman. So when the big man hand takes the loaf out of the oven, I am thinking of the Senifeld episode where he dated "man hands"
Are there packaged pictures available? The bread itself and the packaging. Would be nice to laserburn the inside of the package with it infographic instructions. But awesome video
@@voidremoved Love Senifeld🙂
I think you should include a baking manual (and a knife, lol) it was hard seeing them underbake it, and tearing it apart with that knife.
My bad here. I should have included a proper manual!
This is so interesting! I sent a par baked loaf in the post (from one part of England to another) to a family member, that I haven't seen for a number of years. He is Italian and doesn't enjoy English bread. He cooked it for about 15 minutes and it worked really well. It was your video on par baking rolls that started me off on these experiments and I am very grateful that I can have fresh sourdough in 15/20 minutes. If you would like to send me one of yours, I will happily send you one of mine! I know I would be the happiest bread eater as your bread looks fantastic.
Gluten Tag, I began watching your channel at the beginning of the pandemic to learn how to bake bread especially sourdough. I thank you for helping the world bake better sourdough. Last January I ordered a sourdough miche from the French bakery Maison Poilane. Actually I ordered 3of their breads which were shipped by FedEx from Paris to my address in Toronto Canada in just 2 days. The 4 lbs miche lasted me a month since I cut it into 4 pieces and froze 3. It stayed fresh and tasty. Of course the shipping was costly but was worth it. I would research their model and if possible pay them a visit. Keep baking buddy and inspiring us. Prost!
Idea; use a vacuum sealer and remove as much air as you can without deforming the bread
In my experience the loaf gets more sour as time goes by. It might taste "fresher" the first day and slowly get a little more sour each day. They definitely tore the crumb by cutting it while it was warm
Gluten Tag Hendrick and community! I'm sorry the review seemed so critical. We really liked the bread and the experience around it a lot! Communicating via video messages is just a bit... unusual? It was such an honor to be your first ever "customer". It was not my aim to complain but to point out critical points which may be a problem with such an amazing project. Also, I am not a professional baker, some already noted we baked it a few minutes too long so I am also learning constantly! Maybe it would be good for you to send the bread to someone with more experience and better knowledge the second time around. Greetings and keep up the good work! :)
EDIT: We actually did wait for the bread to cool down for 3 hours +, so it was already completely cooled down :)
Nah you did great job with the review guys, and I think your opinion and criticism as non professional bakers matters the most as you are the real target audience for Hendrik's project.
It was a great review Alex! Very thorough. You covered everything I was curious to find out. Thank you for doing it!
constructive criticism is valuable. As strange as it is to watch a review of bread... you did a good job. Get a bread knife though!
@@voidremoved it is on my Christmas list!
Seemed fine to me!
Hm. Well. I can say one thing. It is impossible to please everyone. Seems like Alex didn`t like open crumb. I would love to get bread like that. I am very pro open crumb. The same issue with sourness of the bread. Someone else should probably say that the bread was not sour enough. I mean you shall trust yourself and rely on your experience as a sourdough baker. And be ready for complains all the time. I know that there are a lot of people who just love to complain, no matter what. But i really hope that all of your customers are not like that :) Support you and wish you all the best! You can do it :)
Thank you! I think I need to decrease the crumb openness a bit though. It was way too wild. When I saw it I thought, this is too much 😅
@@the_bread_code I would second this on the sourness. Ultimately you'll just need to be consistent between batches and you will find customers who like your product
Ditto David. I am from Portugal but from the isles so not very used to the sour taste. Took me a while to learn to enjoy it. Yet one of my best friends from the mainland only likes my bread when its really sour and dense because thats how the traditional bread from his homeland tastes like.
@@the_bread_code So maybe you will need your loaves to be "made to order"? The customer can choose open or closed crumb, max or min sourness... But should you use drop down menu, or check boxes??? I would try check boxes first
When the crumb is too open you can't do much with it other than dip it. I like to spread ricotta or peanut butter or olive oil or make a sandwich. You can't with too open a crust.
So cute watching your reactions as the verdict is being delivered! It’s like watching World Skating comp skaters waiting for the judges rating. Think you’ve done an amazing job. Someone else’s suggestion about baking 2 loaves and keeping one, so you can compare with the buyer is a great idea. That way you can separate out “opinion” and “personal taste” from the overall verdict. Keep up the good work. So entertaining watching your journey.
Just an idea: Maybe ship a bread to yourself and look how it turns out. Or just leave it in the package for a few days to see what happens to the bread before finishing the bake.
The bread looks amazing to me. Burning the top of the loaf is very odd, how did that happen? Maybe they need a lower temp/different oven settings? I've never had that happen with any bread I've baked. The crumb is perfect, imo... I would love for my bread to have such an open crumb! I think maybe (respectfully) the customer was a little too critical.
Considering including the option to purchase some merchandise when ordering. For example, a bread knife!
Every time that I give someone a loaf of sourdough bread I wonder what kind of knife they have. I didn't have a proper bread knife until I started making sourdough bread, I had what I considered a bread knife. It had tiny little teeth that were designed to cut traditional yeast breads or buns and rolls, and that is what most people have in their kitchen unless they happen to have bought a decent knife set that includes a real bread knife.
You can actually get a really good bread knife for fairly low cost. I bought a Mercer Millennia on Amazon for about 20 bucks. I'm sure there are better bread knives out there, but it gets the job done.
Hendrick - when you get your micro bakery going - perfect name for you - The Underbaker!! All the best
I think it's so great that you're doing this entire process open source. I salute you and wish you the best of luck! - Your loyal fan
Any feedback is excellent feedback. :)
Now I feel like baking some sourdough detroit style pizza with my discard.
Crumb is such a personal thing too. It looks extra airy but still perfect IMO. So many bakers (me!) strive for that extra open crumb 😆 Shame delivery took so long, but a great learning experience.
Would've turned out way better if they used a proper knife and waited for it to cool down. I had someone complain my bread was "tacky" and when they sent a cross section photo I felt super really embarrassed. Then I found out they had cut it open with scissors straight out of the oven!!! So I'm gonna say there is a large amount of error that can be chalked up to the user.
Costco in the USA sells a par-baked sourdough that is shelf-stable. The loaves are a little on the small side. These are packed under a slight vacuum. If packed warm you should have only a low chance of mold. Irradiation might be required for longer stability- but this should be easy to test. Since your baking to finish, packing warn you wouldn’t have to worry about moisture as it would reabsorb back into the bread. Everything else about your process looks good!
This is just awesome man. I hope you manage to find a quicker way to send your breads.
So impressed that you openly and honestly allow and show this kind of feedback! I’m making my sourdough bread today! I’d love to review your bread, but I am in the US. Best of luck on your new business!
Thank you for sharing your journey, super interesting and also generous of you ☺️.
I think the fact they have not baked long enough to properly brown and also for that lovely and tasty Maillard reaction it will taste more sour. From experience that’s what I have found that if leave too light/not baked long enough it will taste more sour. Also when still warm the bread tastes and smells more sour but the next day that is reduced a lot so the sourness it is just barely there (enough to know that it is a sourdough but not too off putting for those that do not like too sour and more used to ‘industrial’ white bread).
So maybe add that to your instructions/warnings of what to expect. And this will be more covered from any complains, specially for the novices tasting sourdough. 😉
I would say most important is KISS. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)
A card, recipe card size, with baking instructions, heat in F and C. Generic amount of time with caution of keeping an eye on loaf preferred darkness. Tips such as not cutting it immediately for best slicing, not putting in bag to keep crust uh crusty 🙃
To begin with, no choice on level of sourness.
If loaf is vacuum packed 4 days or longer will be fine.
If you have clients who want weekly or biweekly subscription then you can guesstimate shipping date.
Oh and yes, tighter crumb. We in the US won't want our peanut butter to fall thru :D
Your bread looks amazing👍
On the subject of delivery, I don’t have any experience in your region, but I am sceptical of express delivery on a Friday. I suspect that the weekend add some delay regardless of postage paid. I’d suggest mailing the loves on a Monday or Tuesday.
Such a wonderful experience! Good idea and great job!
Some suggestions, since sourdough is hand made so there are so many varieties (ie crumb openings, sourness, flour mix etc), suggest your design a order form that has few key elements of sourdough they like, so you can make it the way they like to avoid “quality” issue as I don’t see any issue of your bread. Also remember as you mention, send an instruction together with bread to ensure customer handles the rest of process properly to enjoy the best of your sourdough! Good job!
Moin Hendrick. I know this video is a bit older by now, and maybe you've come up with this yourself by now, but one thing to keep in mind is that some acids only evaporate at higher temperatures. I'm not sure whether I read it in Ken Forkish's book, or somewhere else, but one technique for getting a more sour sourdough is in fact to use the method you're effectively using here: a 2-part bake. Bake it till it's done, and then bake it again to get the crust. That way the middle of the bread never gets as hot and stays more sour. So if you baked the same bread at home, but in one go, you might also get less sour result. And on a side note to part 1 of this video. As a German you really should know better than to put regulatory concerns as nr 7 on your list ;-) Wishing you all the best in your endeavors. I love your channel and the unique approach to the topic of baking!!
Nice idea. Good tip could be to include in the instructions to wet the bread slightly before final baking to ensure a good crust. It also works with the supermarket 'almost finished' breads.
The loaf showed, was really good from what I could see.
All the best from the UK.
I have a micro-bakery from home, but I only deliver locally and fully baked. I find that most customers don't like the bread with too open crumb. Also, they don't like bread that is too sour.
I hope that this project works out for you, but here in Australia our food laws might prevent mailing par-baked bread.
Good luck with your microbakery Bread Code
All the best!
Good post mortem on the first one! A few suggestions:
1. It would be too much work, and not enough reward, working from a domestic kitchen. I would create a baking kitchen with a bigger mixer, more fridge space, and a small commercial oven. How many loaves do you need to do at a time to make it a worthwhile venture? Just drawing a number out of the air, let's say 10? So you'd need oven space for maybe 5 at a time and a mixer than can do 10? And fridge space for 10. You'd also want to get your material cost down, and this would require say 5 kg of dough per baking day. So perhaps buy 50 kg at a time to get a much better price per KG.
This way you could do ~ 50 loaves per week. A local bakery here (top notch excellent sourdough with fresh organic flour ground on the premises retails for $11 per loaf. That's still only $550 gross revenue per week, and subtracting costs leaves you with approximately $300 per week in net revenue. It's more of a subsidized hobby than a business. I think you'd have to scale up to a much larger operation to make it into a sustainable business.
And that would only work if you could deliver locally for a very low cost - by bicycle messenger?
I found milk, a stretch an fold 1/2hr before end of bulk ferment a preform and rest before final forming. These steps create a closed crumb suitable for sandwiches and toast. Also I would suggest that customers spray the top to slow the Maillard reaction for a more even browning. I'm about to try par bake some sourdough Christmas presents.
This is so inspiring! :) Maybe you should aim for a specific pH to secure the quality when sending far away?
Nice! What do you think would happen if you just send the shaped unbaked "rohling" vacuumized?
Your are learning the first lesson of the hand-crafts market; GETTING THINGS TO MARKET IS EVERYTHING! You can make the best product, but distribution is the biggest headache!!
You can make breads with lower hydration. Less water=less mold and tighter crumb.
I didn't read all the comments below so sorry if this is redundant. The bread looks soft and stretchy like it should. I see the top crust on the crown was near too done without much on the side and bottom as if baked on the top shelf or with top burner. Was this the case? Maybe better to lower in oven and/or use bottom heat.
Also curious if a bit lower temperature would allow the inner crumb to warm and re-moisten the loaf b4 the crust is too toasted.
If so, would it be possible to ship slightly higher hydration to accommodate the re-bake.
Great project!
Perhaps the bake was finished at too high a temperature. I usually complete a half-baked loaf in an oven preheated to 220º for about 15 mins. That works fine. I'm talking about a 950g dough weight pre baking.
I’m UK & tried your stiff starter/low-protein flour experiment. My loaf looked very-similar in crumb to what you achieved there: pretty & artisanal, good for dipping, bad for spreading.
FWIW, I doubt the delivery delay in this case made any difference: the bread is fully-cooked, so in a stable condition & sealed in a sterile bag so it can’t dry out. Although mitigated & re-sterilised by the final baking, mould is a danger and I’m not sure what your German Food Hygiene Authorities will make of your using straw which is probably teeming with spores, moulds, fungi & other bad guys!
(Long time channel lurker of yours, here. I'm super excited on how your bakery project is evolving) And I agree, the crumb is way too open. If I order a loaf of bread, this would be more close to a ciabatta product. I wouldn't be satisfied customer at this point, I guess. In my experience, if you up the spelt (dinkel wheat) percentage and maintain the same hydration, it helps to keep the crumb's density up. Good luck on Mark II! Greetings from Bavaria.
Lots of great advice in the comments…shipping in today’s environment is very challenging…everything is taking way longer than normal. (Maybe this is the new normal?) I do think that the bread tastes more sour after a couple of days…maybe freeze it and bake after thawed? Don’t really know just making it up!
Wishing you the best…happy holidays
What a great idea I love this
Looks good to me. So less hydration will reduce the amount of open cell structure. And I was reading the stiffer the starter the more sour. I’m using a 100% hydration starter and mine is more lactic acid so not sour. Maybe it’s my unique microbes here in Florida. I would love to get a sour dough like yours. I think your experiment was a success. 👍
Are you providing instructions on how to cook the bread when it's received?
Soooooooo bummed I’m just seeing this! I’dve loved to be a US recipient. I thought the crumb came out beautiful and fluffy. You already got feedback about providing directions the next go round. Do you think maybe freezing the bread before sending could improve the quality upon arrival it will that complicate things?
Is it possible to freeze and send it frozen? Definitely not trough the normal post, but many companies send their products frozen. Although I dont believe it would be worth with something relatively cheap like bread
Could you do a test to see whether the transportation time is definitely an issue? E.g. part bake four loaves and wrap them, then store them. Bake one after a day, one after a week, then two weeks, then four.
I was wondering about the same thing. Maybe he could also continue to bake one as normal too. I thought the bubbles in the bread should already be formed and set after par baking, so maybe this particular recipe just produced a more open crumb and that it had nothing to do with transportation time? Or maybe par baking itself leads to a more open crumb?
That's also a good idea as a way to test things out at home first.
Yeah, there're so many different things going on that it's probably difficult to pinpont what causes anything isn't it. All part of the fun though eh?!
@@chrisokeefe6892 "Eh"? You a fellow Canadian too? 😄🍁
Haha, no - sunny England I'm afraid!
If you lower the hydration level you will most likely have smaller bubbles. You can use vacuum sealing for longer preservation. Also maybe try to develop a method for freezing and defrosting. And I believe there should be definitely a manual for fan or non fan ovens baking temperature etc.
Agreeing with Mayya Bie, I really liked the open crumb and the sourness is what i like about the "sour"dough bread! It is so effortlessly tasty (I mean to added ingredients)! So, there is only one question: How can we deliver this to Canada in say 3 days?! 😉
I think you have to have the recipe as exact as you can and follow it to a "T" every time for quality control purposes. Then you need to figure out shipping along with price point to cover shipping methods. Thoughts: if you make more at one time, youll bring your time down per loaf and therefore make more money per loaf, how many can you make at one time?
The US postal service is understaffed and under-equipped now. Domestic mail is often delayed. I presume even express mail is not too reliable. But private carriers are expensive.
Honestly, try doing this within short distance, using offline publicity like flyers. That way, transportation is easier, you can even customise the sourness according to customer preference!
Das ist fantastisch! Open Crumb is great! Bischen ungewöhnlich in Deutschland. Aber dafür, dass das Ding auch noch verschickt wurde sieht das echt richtig gut aus!
I've been told that I should start selling my bread, but it's so labor and time intensive that it makes no monetary sense compared to my job as a database administrator. We have a local sourdough bakery that I used to buy, last year it cost $7 for a whole wheat loaf. I used to love it, but my bread looked and tasted better.
The only way I can see this working for you is partnering with an existing bakery and doing one big batch a week, then sending them out all at once. As others have suggested, early in the week so there isn't a weekend wait. Another way to save on shipping is to send out multiple loaves and have the recipient freeze them until they need a fresh loaf. I'm not sure what difference there would be in vacuum sealing vs a plastic bag, that sounds like an easy experiment for you. Getting your bread into local restaurants would be a good way to get exposure and feedback.
Scaling is your next problem. You will need to clone yourself and distribute your minions around the planet setting up a similar local operation. If that proves too difficult, then franchise Bread Code!
I want to send my friends in Florida a couple loaves from NY. I was going to bake it completely and have them refresh the bread by spritzing it with water and baking for 15 minutes at 350f. That's what I do when I freeze bread.
Good luck!
I am of the opinion that we should produce and buy food locally wherever possible. If your bread is good, there should be plenty of local customers wishing to buy it.
Agreed
At home I would love that open crumb on occasion!! "sour" ness is something that is subjective. My wife likes it less sour, but love the more bold flavors!
So cool. Ich drücke dir die Daumen so sehr !!!!
I think it might be easier if you just do a community/neighborhood home bakery. You use a message app to form your group and people can order from the app. Many people are doing specialty ethnic food here. You can deliver to nearby cities and skip shipping. And you don't have to do it every day either. You can deliver 2 days per week, for example. And the breads will be very fresh, like you bake them the night before and deliver them next day. They can still be partially baked as if envision it, and people bake them again after they receive them.
But quality control is important. As home bakers, we enjoy slight variation with each baking and might be amused by pleasant surprises, but when people start to order and repeat, then expect more or less the same quality/character.
Well, I must say that this tomato knife (??) and cutting too soon after baking doesn't do the crumb any favors.. And yeah I agree that the temperature this was baked in probably wasn't optimal (the second bake). I'm also very interested how sour is this 'maybe even too sour'. After interacting with so many different sourdough bakers, I've come to realize that everyone has their specific preference. Also, some people might have been disappointed with sourdough because their starter is just too sour and never really liked the results....or vice versa :)
I would be really interested to compare the taste of sourdough breads from different home bakers. We see hundreds of pictures of gorgeous loaves, but virtually never get to taste those.. Would people like my sourdough bread? Too sour, or perhaps too mild? Would people's opinion on their own bread change afterwards? To better or worse direction?
So many questions and no answers, hopefully you get answers to some of those questions with this Micro bakery experiment. Best of luck from Finland.
Agree, I never ever thought the sourness is a problem for some bakers, since my loafs never turned out sour for me or my family to notice or be bothered by. I would describe it as having a perfect flavour balance and a pleasant yogurty? sourness that just complements the slight saltiness or the sweet dry fruit inclusions (if any) of the bread, especially when using some whole wheat flour. So, I guess it is just individual depending on your personal sd starter but also so much more factors...
Hard to tell if the bread was still moist or dried out a bit because of the delivery. That would be important to me. If it is, sprinkling water on the crust before baking would freshen it up. Worth a test?
An interesting idea would be to optionally include a bread knife sent along with the bread lol You'd have to warn people that a good, brand-new knife is sharp. I remember cutting myself three times with my bread knife before I was like "Oh, I'm not being clumsy--this is just a level of sharpness I've yet to experience"
Can you freeze the half baked breads and then ship them?
So what was the devastating part?? This looked pretty good for a proof of concept.
Shipping is going to be a nightmare no matter where you are. You might need to start local and have a city pickup-dropoff a few times a week where people who've ordered bread can come and get it, or you deliver to a central area that can hold it for pickup (a centrally located client who's willing to hold stuff for people for a discount or extra loaf or something).
Thank you 🤗
Fully baking the loaf reduces the moisture a bit more and may reduce risk of mould.
Looking at Alex’ oven it doesn’t have bottom heating, maybe she even set it to grill? that might explain why the top was charred while the lower part looks pale. (I have a similar oven myself, I have to turn on the fan for it to heat evenly, and place the bread on a lower rack, and even keep it covered during the last 10 minutes)
Looks like it worked pretty well, I think!! Would love to offer myself as a guinea pig here in Berlin :D
Our german delivery service is sometimes absolutly terrible, 4 days for a few hundred kilometers, no words. You need to let baked goods cool properly, thats very important. Bake it on a 6mm steel or 20-40mm stone. For normal 240°-280° celcius ovens the steel is much better. Yu need 100-150% less energy and time to preheat the steel, especially for bread and pizza.
Today the most german bakery work with additives and other chemical powder, this shortens the proofing time dramatically. 20 years ago, every bakery had sourdough bread. :-(
It doesn't have a very even brown. It makes me wonder if they pre-heated the oven properly before putting it in the oven.
Maybe only ship loaves Monday - Wednesday (possibly Thursday depending on where it is going) to ensure the bread doesn't sit over the weekend? Also, maybe par-bake, then freeze; ship with dry ice to ensure freshness?
Hey you should try to send out packages on Monday... Since I live in the middle of nowhere, I order a lot of things delivered. Quickly I learned to place my orders usually Sunday. If I order Friday it tends to sit around all weekend. Lots of places I order from even prefer it this way. Nobody wants to work on the weekends. Not the guy roasting my coffee, not the delivery driver, not the people at the post office... It it is food, or perishable I order Sunday and it gets here typically in a couple days. If I order Friday it usually gets here the same as if i ordered Sunday. Seems to be similar there in Germany.
My experience in the workforce would suggest most people who work weekends are hungover, drunk and on drugs.
BTW these folks need a bread knife. Recently I replaced my dollar store bread knife with a half decent, inexpensive "name brand" and the difference is huge.. I used to end up with a handful of crumgs after slicing, now barely any crumbs and a nice clean slice. You didnt make the bread code bread knife yet.
As I bake like old grandmas, aka, once a week, I'm pretty used to the taste of older sourdough. My personal opinion: fresh sourdough has little taste after it cools down so the best taste is always warm out of the over and 24h later. From the 3rd day onwards, the best flavour comes out only on a panini press grill. Just cut a fatter slice so it doesnt dry out too much, and let the grill toast the outside golden. It tastes and smells like heaven while still warm. Even better if you added around 6% of lard or butter to the dough.
Gluten tag! To me your crumb on this loaf of bread is most amazing!!! 😋
I just wish I could make it like that! Not an easy task!
Also, people that have not had homemade Sourdough bread have nowhere to compare. It's so different than anything they (or anybody else) could have ever bought from stores.
"It's sooooo fluffy!!!" I personally strive for the "bubbly" open crumb. I know it becomes a mess when topping it with jam, but getting the beautiful and delicate lattice structure is what I aspire to achieve. I could see slicing the loaf will be difficult as it requires a careful balance of pressure to tear apart the hardened crust, and gentle slicing to maintain the delicate crumb.
If this were shipped to me here in Los Angeles, it would be the most expensive food item I ever bought. 😬
If you are worried about molding, you can try using a tangzhong. That usually extend the life of the bread (and it is still flour, water, and salt, nothing else). I am not sure how painful it would be to scale up later on, but if you lower the probability of molding, maybe it's worth it?
Awesome idea and great execution. The prototype looks great :)
Thanks!
Tangzhong doesn’t protect you from mold unfortunately. It keeps the bread moist, but doesn’t lower water activity ☹️
I loved watching your reaction to the feedback. So…what happened with this? Are you still doing it? I want to buy some here in the states!
I closed the project for now! The feedback just wasn't good enough plus the hurdles with the German government.
The bread looks amazing, It would be a perfect bread for me with the opening texture like that. However, i think if the shipment takes more than 3 days, you might need a vacuum machine or even freeze the bread to make sure it stay as fresh as possible
I love that crumb I wish I had your recipe😊
Part 1 had the recipe and directions.
Looks like getting even browning on the crust was difficult, looked a little light on the sides, and burnt on top, almost black.
Maybe that could be fixed with some basic instructions included in the package.
Make a tighter final shape. Think it will make it tighter. Still looks great though. If the purpose of your bread is for jam then yeah tigher crumb but that bread is beautiful!
First, I love your name: Gluten Tag! I am American but have German heritage. Second, I would love to have had that beautiful loaf! I have been watching your videos for 2 weeks or so, and have started baking sourdough bread. (8 days to make my starter) My second attempt better. Best part, my husband hates sourdough bread! Yet he has been so complimentary, says he likes mine. This is huge, since I still suck! I have never baked bread. My “Mutter” would be so proud, as she tried to get me to bake bread for years. You have inspired me Hendrik, bravo 🙌
Please, please send to US, I can give you my address! 😍
It does look very open crumb, which is not a bad thing. But it look like there’s some gluten degradation from over fermentation you think? Doesn’t the bread still age without being frozen, after many days of shipping, I would imagine that the bread has aged and loose it’s fresh springy texture. What about shipping frozen with dry ice? That’s how most par baked bread is sold, to avoid aging.
Consider an oxygen scavenger, it should really slow down any change to the crumb and help alot with any potential mold
If you need someone in the USA to test this out on...just let me know! I would be happy to give it a try.
Try sending sourdough starter! I can be your first tester in the Pacific Northwest 😁
Awesome
DHL have an express service for sending all around the world. I have bought watercolour supplies from Italy to the UK and often they have arrived in 24 hours. Trouble is it isn’t cheap at £25.
Maybe people are not used to real artisanal sourdough bread and the level of sourness is a matter of personal taste. Keep trying Hendrick! You could also add to the package some short instructions: how to properly bake it at home (ideal position in the oven/temperature/time), also suggesting to wait before slicing into it :)
The main issue is that most people don't have any idea what a really good sophisticated loaf of sourdough bread should look like.
That is your challenge.
The "open crumb" is not viewed as successful, it's viewed as "bubbly"...something went wrong. When in fact...that was the objective, and obtaining a nice perfect open crumb bread took a lot of experimentation and work.
Secondly, I would not try to do a "half baked" business model (pun intended). deliver bread that is fully baked and ready to consume. Don't leave part of the process in the hands of unknown customers with unknown skills.
Make two types of bread and give them a choice (include pictures) Type 1) Open crumb...Type 2) tight crumb...Let them decide.
Have you heard about the roux trick?
It gives unbelievable strength to dough.
I started using it a couple of weeks back, it's gives so much dough strength that you can increase hydration
Based on making 750gm of flour dough at 80%
From the weighed flour take one third cup (it was an American who told me this method, approx 40-50gm) and two thirds of a cup (approx 150-160ml) put in sauce pan and stir constantly to make a roux. When the water and heat do it's trick on the gluten, and it's thickened up, mix it in with you other Ingredients to make your dough.
Then proceed as normal, only you don't need to add any dough strength because it's already super strong!
Seriously I was amazed the first time I did it,it's well worth experimenting with, it's totally improved the quality of my loaves.
Be interesting to hear your reaction to this (magic trick) method, and your opinion on what it's doing, I assume making the roux kick starts the gluten working, the heat helps give a boost to the proving too, so will need less time for first prove.
From your flour
To add to above.
I also think I was previously over proving, after reading other recipes with varying advice on proving.
I've started proving for less on 1st prove, letting it rise around 75% (instead of 100%/doubling)
I'm seeing a better rise on dough second proving in fridge overnight, and think it give a better loaf and crumb
Dave..it's called the tangzhong method ..it's Japanese and is explained on the King Arthur Bread website. You use 25gm flour and 125gm water(5x) heat up hot while mixing into a slurry. Let cool then mix with other ingredients as normal. It adds more internal moisture and bread lasts 2 or 3 days longer. I use the method when I want the bread to last extra days before I make the next one.
@@lbamusic I didn't do it the way you described, so would argue it's not Tangzhong.
Different flour hydration, different method, I let if form a roux, as in thick paste/ball rather than slurry, and mixing while warm to kick start fermentation.
Whatever it's called, it's improved my bread, and without adding ingredients!
I think in Germany it would be a "Brühstück"? I do that with Speltbreads all the time.
It makes the breads more "Juicy" and dont turn dry to soon (Wich never happens by the way, because we eat the bread inmediatly:) )
@@stupidhandles I will give your method a try...especially hot to kick-starting the fermentation which I do a minimum of 24hrs, to ensure most of the starch from the flour is converted to Co2
It took several days to get some bread sent by a friend from Tartine bakery and it was very sour.
No such thing as sourdough that’s too sour, in my opinion! This is a great idea, good luck!
Gluten tag! I would buy your bread in a heartbeat 💗
You need to find a way to deliver to US 😁
So when you gonna dig up your sourdough starter?
At least you had a guinea pig to know what you need to fix. I'm making cinnamon rolls and I'm concerned about the web like texture of my bread dough. Is that a problem? Help Hendrik
Comes from trial an error! You will get there
But is the web texture a sign of over fermenting?
Another thought. What will be the price for your bread by the time you cover your time making, baking, packaging and mailing the bread? I think you might get a lot of one-time customers who go for it as a novelty, but maybe not regular customers.
I agree. I'm not sure it's a viable business plan. On top of it I feel there's a contradiction in there somewhere. Sourdough for me is about natural bread, the most universal and basic foodstuff that used to be made and eaten where its ingredients were being grown; so for me it's all about so called short chain, artisanship, sustainability etc... To then ship it across the country (let alone across continents) does not appeal to me as a big-time sourdough fan and frequent client at different bakeries.
I wonder if there's not many people sharing this pov.
Where I live there is a young lady selling bread on Facebook Market place and other platforms. You order it three days ahead and then pick it up. All made in her home.
I just found another one that is selling the bread for $10 to $13 with $9.25 shipping. Not par baked but a finished bread.
Thanks! Good to know. Here in Germany it wouldn't be possible from a legal perspective.
I would try to avoid shipping at the end of the week. Stick to Monday or Tuesday I'd say.