New head canon: If Hosea survived that explosion with nothing more than light injuries, then surely the enemies who are standing several paces farther away ought to have survived as well. Plus, no kill screen flash happened. Those men aren't dead. They're just lying down because of embarrassment over the fact that they watched you place two sticks of dynamite in front of them, and they shot them. Therefore, Arthur is innocent.
On the contrary I think it just means Hosea is built different and deserves bonus points for durability if we ever get a sequel to the tier list video.
@@rumblezerofive I think you missed the point, everything can be used as a weapon but it's the purpose of the item which makes you see it as a weapon or not. I could crush someone's head with an iron and intentionally burn someone alive over a campfire, but still those items arent intended to be used that way, they just create hazard of someone using them this way. With the logic your going every single tool is a weapon.
I love how during every episode, there's a point where it seems like the challenge is almost done for and you reach rock bottom. Then, just by sheer luck (or incredible skill), you find a way to bypass scripted killings, animations etc. Its one of my favourite parts in this series.
I was certain the filter for this run was that train conductor with the magnetic shovel in the prologue. The fact that he ever got past that showed me this guy was the real deal, and this series was truly going to be something special.
@@sir.gulllen also in the "lore" of this. The raiders are so desperate to kill Arthur that they completely ignore the hazard that is RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM.
Eyezayar, in risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to just say that this series means a ton to me; its the best series on youtube hands down in my opinion. So much has happened in my life the past few years but this series always remains a comfortable place that I can return to when times are tough. Thanks for sticking with it man.
Means a lot my friend, thank you. Happy to hear this series can still bring some enjoyment in that way. Hope you've been well and thank you for sticking around as long as you have!
@@eyezayarHey so I decided to give it a try myself on this mission and was originally gonna do the whole game without kills but decided instead to just load a save replay the Mission you were on and try to do the next section which was the wagon Now I didn't try too many times without trying this and I'm not sure if it will work for you because I did accidentally kill one guys horse however I think a strategy that worked for me is Shoot them in the hands around there weapons with weak weapons to keep them temporarily at bay it somehow kept Hosea alive and didn't kill them Also for some reason they also killed themselves when they got too close I'm not sure why though but the wagon kept catching fire for a sec which kept killing the enemies I think they were either shooting out the lantern on the wagon or throwing molotovs or something regardless though If all else fails try shooting them in the hands and weapons with weak weapons to stun them for a sec Anyways just thought this might be useful
eyezayer found a strat in arthur becomes and that was to wave his guns at them without firing once. Davey the double-barreled shotgun@@gabrielchastain6091
I think that placing the TNT presents a dilemma to the shooters. They could A) turn and run or B) continue to shoot and risk hurting themselves. By their choice of option B they have essentially consented to un-aliving themselves, therefore not making W.J. responsible. A choice was presented, and they chose poorly. There was no clear “intent” in placing the TNT and it can’t be proven your intended goal was for them to be un-alived. I say the challenge is still valid
@@eyezayar one reason Kratos walking into fire was fine is because he's escaped various hell's so much he has a road map. It barely counts even if you did shove him in. The same may apply here, you said yourself this was unusual behaviour for drunkards, were they ever human to begin with? Were they even still alive, or just puppets for something else?
@@eyezayarI suggest that you practice your parkour skills in Saint Denis, because it will definitely be a helpful ability in the future, I’ve spent hours trying to achieve very stupid goals like getting to the tops of certain buildings, seeing how high i can get, and seeing if I can climb every to the top of every building section. And because of my hours of experience doing stupid shit, I was able to see that path with the railway almost immediately, I seriously consider you try it
This is an interesting moral quandary I'd have to go with innocent based on a few factors A) they instigated the fight and introduced firearms with the intent to kill accepting the responsibility that someone may have a firearm and shoot at them back. B) as a deterrent you placed the dynamite to get them to stop shooting and hid behind the table for cover. C) the game not counting them as your kills also makes this easier coupled with the fact you didn't force them to shoot they did it themselves.
Please don't give up on this challenge no matter how difficult it is, this series is amazing and hilarious, also I absolutely love all the side characters you created, three gun Gary, the cliff goblins, PTSD Micah, the bulletrpoof knife guy, and frank are all pretty awesome and each has their own backstoty that fleshes them out
Eyezayar I cannot express just how much this series means to me, I have been watching it since day 1 and have gone through so much since then. And this is unironically the best video game series on the entire internet.
Not to muddy the water too much, but maybe consider adding a third category of "ambiguous" or "gray area" kills or something? Also, I absolutely love and adore this series, and I'm so glad to see it back. And your cinematics and creative bits in these videos are truly really cool and fun to watch.
I think when it comes down to a final count, there may be a place for some third category where less conventional strats were used. And thanks a lot man, that means a lot to hear. New one soon!
Innocent (also the production value of this series and the amount of time and effort you put into it is incredible! This is by far the best series on UA-cam!)
Innocent! Oh and by the way I am so glad to see this series return. It has got to be super frustrating to put these together with all of the trial and error required, but this is one of my favorite RDR2 series' of all time. Keep it up!
Dynamite is a mining tool. They disrespected a tool and suffered an injury. With the logic they are cognitive enough to use guns, they can choose not to use guns on dynamite. Same idea with Kratos and the fire. The intention wasn't explicitly to cause harm, if anything it was just adding to the cover. Who knows if they could have shot the stick while it was in your pocket?
As far as I’m concerned, if they watch you setting up the dynamite, can see it’s there the whole time and still shoot it, it’s on them. Plus, Alfred Nobel invented dynamite to help with building and mining, therefore I’d say it’s a tool rather than a weapon
What if it was accidental? It's like saying that if someone kidnapped me and forced me to walk across a narrow wooden beam across two buildings, then it's my fault if I die since I can see the drop beneath me and I'm the one that slipped, not the kidnapper. The original purpose of the knife was to assist in cutting and carving meat, wood, and other materials, but that doesn't mean it isn't a weapon. The same thing applies for dynamite. Just because it was invented for practical use doesn't excuse any violent or malicious actions performed with said object.
@@blipblapblop2447 Oh no I commented twice on the same video 😱😱😱😱😱😱 how shall I ever repay my sins? I'm not pressed and I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just presenting possible arguments for the other side.
It's always a pleasure to watch this series continue! The camera angles, shots and the rewritten storyline are gold. As for the verdict, W.J. is innocent. Dynamite can serve as a tool too, like blowing up rocks to allow safe passage.
I'd have to rule innocent for this one. The dynamite was put there in clear vision of the enemies, and they chose to continue shooting at it. If you continue to do something that is dangerous, despite being fully aware that it could end in your death, then that is the fault of no-one but yourself.
Based on hownthe game reacts and how pistol whipping only knocks someone out and the fact Hosea is fine just a few feet away, I'd argue that those men are knocked out from the explosion and not dead.
i think the dynamite strat should count as half a kill. like you said, you dont shoot them with a gun, or throw the dynamite, but they would'nt have died if you didnt place it there. i see it as both you ad the npc's are responsible, so the point is split also, your editing seems to have improved by a lot, you can really tell time and effort has been put into this video and its editing. very good job :)
My verdict is the dynamite usage is a valid pacifist strategy (TLDR at the end). It essentially comes down to the fact that while Arthur is choosing to create a *potential* hazard, the enemies are the ones choosing to make it an *active* hazard. It’s not like he sneakily laid mines under them, he very visibly placed the dynamite on the table and then did nothing. The enemies absolutely saw the dynamite, and it was their decision to prioritize satisfying their bloodlust over their own safety. Yes, your head-canon is that all of the enemies are absurdly drunk (which isn’t necessarily the case), but at a certain point being under the influence doesn’t absolve you of responsibility for your actions. If you’re sober enough to competently take part in an organized gun fight, you’re sober enough to recognize that shooting at a target right next to a stick of dynamite is a significant health risk. There’s always the potential that they could avoid hitting it and take out Arthur anyway, and if they think that’s worth the risk, that’s no one’s judgment call but their own. While you were right in saying Arthur technically has more responsibility in creating the hazard here than when it’s a “natural” hazard like a fire or cliff or train, it’s still the enemies’ choice to put themselves in danger and prioritize killing Arthur over their own safety. It’s not the same as him pushing them off a cliff and saying “well I didn’t kill them, the ground did!” The enemies have every opportunity to decide not to follow you along the cliff face or run in front of the very obvious train, but if they are so invested in killing Arthur that they make the choice to risk their lives, and that risk ends poorly, it was still ultimately their choice to not accept the chance to see sense and just walk away. In this sense, placing the dynamite is no more blame on Arthur than fighting around an open flame. Similar to the final battle between Obiwan and Anakin, if Arthur sets up and points out / makes obvious any *deterrent* defenses that only have the potential to hurt the attackers if they continue to attack anyway, or puts himself in a position that creates obvious risk for the attacker (“Its over, I have the high ground!”), and the enemies are either so hateful or so arrogant that they disregard their own safety and try anyway (“You underestimate my power!”), then Arthur can’t be held responsible for the consequences of their actions. Honestly I’d say defensive tactics like this are *more* pacifist than the traditional “lasso them to the ground so they can be killed by an ally”, because in that case you’re just helping someone else kill them (even if it is in self defense), whereas in this category of “kills” you’re using tools or the environment purely defensively, and the enemies are making the decision to get themselves killed rather than accept Arthur’s pleas for peace and walk away. And fun fact addressing your argument that the dynamite is explicitly a weapon where the other things weren’t: Alfred Nobel invented dynamite in 1867 to be used specifically for mining (to replace more unstable/dangerous explosives). Basically the whole world immediately went “fuck that” and bought it all to use in warfare instead; newspapers even began calling Nobel “The Merchant of Death”. He was so horrified that his invention became automatically used for violence that he donated his entire life fortune to create the Nobel Peace Prize Foundation, to recognize those who dedicated their lives to making the world a more enlightened, safe, and united place. So it really comes full circle back to the story of our Goodest Boah lol *TLDR:* The dynamite kills (and other “environmental kills” in that category) are totally valid and should be considered pacifist, because no matter how the hazards are created, as long as they are defensive in nature and obvious enough to be understood by the enemies, it’s their decision, not Arthur’s, to risk (and potentially lose) their lives for a chance at victory, just as in any other form of combat.
Fair enough. I guess I just have a hard time buying that the enemies consciously, in their drunken state, took the risk of firing near dynamite. But I can see your point. So, if it was done by regular Arthur, I would consider him innocent. But given Eyezayar's headcanon, as much as it breaks my heart, I can't pass the same judgement for W. J. Placing defenses is within the Golden Guidelines. However, it must be demonstrated that W. J.'s foes are fully aware and consicious of said defenses, and the risk that they're taking when walking into them, which cannot be demonstrated here.
What if I set up a trap room and deliberately run pursuers through it? I could do this to cops who have every right to be chasing me and it's clearly murder. Saying 'they should have seen the threat to themselves and acted differently' would absolve all 'trap' kills. The moral corruption in this is very real even if you can get off the charges in court. In himself Arthur would know why the dynamite was put there and why the enemies died. The campfire is different because he could just have been camping and failed to prevent the man falling into the fire.
@@thomaskilroy3199 yes but see if you set up a trap that is only visible from the other side of the doorway that would automatically put you in cuffs, W.J. merely placed down the Dynamite in full view (and intended to pick it up later). Fully conscious men who saw the potential hazard continued to fire their guns. My client is not guilty on the basis that the assailants had plenty of opportunities to stop shooting and put their safety above their bloodlust.
I recently discovered this channel and these are probably the best gameplay videos I've ever seen in 10 years of youtube, I'm not even exagerating, they are perfect, I'm addicted
Hey hope you notice this because you can avoid killing the guy in last chapter 2 mission by shooting near his elbow (for some reason it will give you positive honor) and immediately shooting him in the head. Three reasons why it's not a kill: 1) Hitmarker is grey 2) If you aim at guy immediately after shooting him he's still alive because the crosshair is red. He only dies after touching the ground without any indication that it's because of you. 3)Doesn't count towards kill count in weapons part of compendium
i haven't even gotten into a minute but i need to tell you that; Eyezayar your editing and effort put into these videos is amazing. I look forward to each one because they're worth multiple watches. They're fantastically put together and easily, this is one of my favorite series of ANY media. Cheers to you, mate!
After over a month of debating, I conclude innocent, because even if it's your fault, it doesn't matter. it's not confirmed they are dead. Hosea survived the explosion and was way closer to it and had less cover. The knockback may have just knocked them out.
Easily innocent, look you being able to do what you do is already mindblowing, this game does not want to give you a helping hand. I think it's totally fair to use strategies of this type when the "preferred" ones run out. This series is so much fun already, and having this possibility will make brainstorming missions strategies even cooler. Also the editing is top notch, I'm so happy to see how much you grew as a content creator, keep the awesome work going, independent of the series.
Been following this series and you since you got like 8.000 subscribers and I am so incredibly glad I did because you are creating art, entertainement and everything I need whenever I wanna have a good time. Thank you!!!
Dynamite was created as a tool for mining. So if we think of dynamite as a mining tool, you could argue that the sticks of dynamite fell out of your pocket. That the enemies shot it is up to them
This series is truly amazing and addicting! Hilarious at times and ultimately THE most entertaining on all of UA-cam. You deserve all the praise and then some, for all the hard work and mental effort it takes to make one of these episodes! P.S. “I can take this if you want” 😂
I just love how you include Arthur into your suffering, the life this man has lived by the end will be a feat of human perseverance unlike anything seen before.
This entire series Western Jesus facilitates deaths, indirectly, he sets up Micah and others to kill people all the time. So I think it’s fine. You could use that though. This realization that while he is principled as he follows the challenges rules, he’s not really any different than the rest of the gang could cause Western Jesus to split with the Gang in chapter 6.
Dynamite is not just a weppon, it is a tool for opening things ie bank vaults, Mr morgan was simply attempting to open that table up for he believed "THE BUG" was trapped inside, he then requested the assistance of the two men but that unfortunately led to their deaths.
You could also argue that since dynamite was created as a mining/construction tool and not originally as a weapon that it falls into the tool category just as the campfire
As other comments have said, Laurel and Hardy watched you set up the dynamite, and still decided to shoot. They did it to themselves. It's the old, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." It's the same thing as Kratos burning his ass. Western Jesus did not sin.
You’re easily one of the best UA-camrs I’ve seen on the platform. Yet another masterpiece in editing, narration, and direction. Congrats on the finishing of this video.
Applying game logic, you didn't kill them. Applying morals, you did. You set a trap, and they sprung it. I would argue that the same goes for the campfire since its intended purpose is to kill.
Fuck Yeah he's back boys, Good to see you Eyezayar🎉 Your channel is criminally underrated, even though a quarter of a million subscriber is a fuck ton, I'll still think your criminally underrated when you hit a million which I know you will. Been watching since you're character analysis and had no idea how great your channel would become. Love your shit mate.
@philm0graphy I started watching his videos a long time ago with his analysis of RDR2 characters and fell in love with his style. His narratives are fantastic. 🙂
Your persistence is the stuff of legends. It's what keeps me coming back for more. Arthur is 100% innocent and absolved of any wrongdoing, they didn't have to shoot the dynamite.
Exactly. Imagine trying to shoot someone and they walk two feet in front of you, plant two sticks of dynamite on a table, and then run behind that same table. Someone with any will to live/kill Arthur would just shoot him at the many opportunities they had. Instead they shot the obvious dynamite obviously planted in front of them while standing motionless directly next to it. No other way to put it than suicide
When I saw Hosea realize that TGB saved him and in that realization yeeted himself over the railing I knew this had bad news written all over it… like in permanent marker and shit.
O.O! The amount of effort you put into this is just amazing. The number of camera pans and changes. When you paused the whole game so you could have the camera follow the path you wanted to try but couldn't. You are taking this yet another step up. Kudos and pride for ya sir. Kudos and pride.
I knew at first that your strategy wasn’t bad or didn’t count as a kill, but your reasoning further convinced me that you were innocent, the sheer commitment and enthusiasm you had for this was more than enough and you blessed us with that, thank you eyezar, even if this series takes 10 years we will be with you, experiencing the emotions you feel, the frustration and sorrow of rockstar just being unwilling and kind of softlocking the game, and the feeling of achievement that we gain together
just the other day i was wondering if this type of playthrough was even possible, i’m glad i wasn’t the one to test it. thank you for the time dedicated to this
I’m going to say innocent, as someone stated in the comments, Hosea was just as close to it as they were and he survived. And because of a lack of a kill marker it can be safe to say they are potentially unconscious in a way, albeit possibly a stretch. None the less I say innocent
Two people were killed by shooting the dynamite that they WATCHED HIM SLOWLY PLACE. ITS THEIR OWN DUMB ASS FAULT FOR SHOOTING IT. No kills. Valid strat.
@@eggchomp It's hard to say. The men never had the intention to hit the dynamite and blow themselves up, but Arthur did. The men's negligence in this scenario could be excused because they were drunk and probably have disorienting tinnitus from loud gunshots in a confined space. Arthur also had complete awareness over the situation which strengthens his accountability. In the campfire strat, Arthur had the intention to kill the man and purposefully lured the man into a trap which he knew would kill him. And if the man was careless enough to step in the fire then clearly he didn't have enough awareness, which could be through angered tunnel vision. This is getting a bit hypothetical for a silly video game challenge, but I would say that Arthur is responsible for death in both scenarios since he had intention to kill, full awareness over what would happen, and took advantage of the opponent's lack of awareness, such as the raiders being drunk, or Kratos having tunnel vision from anger and not being able to see surrounding danger.
@@Boileryardhe lassoes and disarms people in front of hostile gunmen. If getting Bill to kill three-gun Gary wasn't Arthur's fault, then neither is this dynamite.
I know its been 4 months now but I've put some thought into it and wanted to throw my hat into the ring. So the way I look at this situation, is that while Arthur doesn't directly kill the two men, he purposefully sets up the dynamite with the intention of them being blown up and killed. Now at first glance I considered it as 2 kills until I thought about it some more. If we think back to throughout the series, there are several instances where it could be argued that Arthur is "Setting up a kill". Whether its sending Micah in a frenzy to attack enemies for you, or tying enemies in a companions line of fire for them to get shot, or leading an enemy to there death. If this instance was to be considered as deaths, then it would require evaluating the entire series and look at when Arthur was intentionally leading an enemy to there death. If we want to stick to the established rules of TGB, then I suggest that it does not count as two deaths.
Incredible episode in an incredible show. That being said, guilty. Always felt that Kratos burning in the campfire was murder too. Although I always prefer that to simple murder obviously. I think the same way you count Kills and K.O., you should keep track of those « induced environmental accidents ». Great series, you are one of the very few people making me go back to UA-cam once in a while to rewatch some of my favorites. Hoping your mental health is not too damaged for our fun. Sorry of my english is weird btw.
I think the fact that you didn’t light it and they shot it means the blame is on them, before you threw dynamite at them and they jumped out of the way to save themselves, they knew what the dynamite did and had the mechanics necessary to save themselves but didn’t, Arthur Morgan is still The Goodest Boah in The West in my opinion
I say it should be allowed. Here’s why. Ultimately for the series in general from a pure entertainment standpoint, having a final resort to a problem after hours and hours of testing more “normal” strategies still being a challenge within itself seems like a more interesting concept. It’s not like this strategy is a get out of jail free for any situation (i.e. enemies that do not shoot, forced deadeye where dynamite cannot be placed, no viable areas to place dynamite, etc) . It still requires planning, strategy, and a bit of luck to work if it is to work at all. Removing it in its entirety leaves the ending of every “impossible” segment to just be a shot to the head with no further elaboration. It allows for greater creativity whilst still remaining in the spirit of the challenge. Your honour, I rest my case
Exactly. This game was clearly not designed to be beaten by not using violence/killing your enemies and getting this far with so much effort not to actively kill, proves in my opinion that player has done his ultimate best and deserves the moral high ground. INNOCENT I say.
So just because it's entertaining means he's innocent? Ok, so if I strap a subwoofer to my back with neon lights and kill 30 people then its perfectly fine because at least it was entertaining?
Yeah he went out of his way to try every possible way not to cause those two deaths and they ultimately died of their of free choice when they knowingly shot at dynamite in close proximity. Would have never blown up if the NPCs didn’t chose violence.
@@Boileryard Yes, because that is what I’m saying. If you completely ignore the context in which the question was asked, bingo. He said himself it’s a decision about the future of the series, not an actual damn court case lmfao
VOTING IS NOW CLOSED AS OF *27/10/2023*
The jury's verdict will be revealed in TGB EP12.
I know it's closed but it should be its category and only used when needed and the category is call being boomed to heaven
I say innocent.
Why have them jump into the fireplace ?
@@shaquessejones9947
The category could be called assisted suicide
Game doesnt consider it player action, hence it is not.
New head canon: If Hosea survived that explosion with nothing more than light injuries, then surely the enemies who are standing several paces farther away ought to have survived as well. Plus, no kill screen flash happened. Those men aren't dead. They're just lying down because of embarrassment over the fact that they watched you place two sticks of dynamite in front of them, and they shot them. Therefore, Arthur is innocent.
^
Real
On the contrary I think it just means Hosea is built different and deserves bonus points for durability if we ever get a sequel to the tier list video.
TRUE
Keep this as top comment
Dynamite was originally created as a tool for mining. So all thing considered, it’s purpose was not to be a weapon, but a tool, like a campfire.
It was the misuse of man that caused dynamite to be used as a killing tool.
What if I stabbed someone with a butter knife?
What if you left a butter knife out and they stabbed themselves with it is more like it
but people kill guns
@@rumblezerofive I think you missed the point, everything can be used as a weapon but it's the purpose of the item which makes you see it as a weapon or not. I could crush someone's head with an iron and intentionally burn someone alive over a campfire, but still those items arent intended to be used that way, they just create hazard of someone using them this way. With the logic your going every single tool is a weapon.
I love how during every episode, there's a point where it seems like the challenge is almost done for and you reach rock bottom. Then, just by sheer luck (or incredible skill), you find a way to bypass scripted killings, animations etc. Its one of my favourite parts in this series.
That's very inspiring
He structures the videos really well
I was certain the filter for this run was that train conductor with the magnetic shovel in the prologue. The fact that he ever got past that showed me this guy was the real deal, and this series was truly going to be something special.
Easiest way to tell with the dynamite being a kill is to simply go into the stats screen for dynamite to see if it changes the kill count
this^
@@sir.gulllen also in the "lore" of this. The raiders are so desperate to kill Arthur that they completely ignore the hazard that is RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM.
Honestly I thought he would do that.
100% agreed, anyone able to check?
He can't do that, it exposes his kill counter during experiments
Hosea throwing himself off was so unexpected that I burst out laughing it was glorious
Ave Maria is the chef's kiss on top. I was wheezing
My reaction was 😃😲🤨😂😂
it was PERFECT.
same!
The noises his shoes make as they hit the balcony was priceless.
Hosea throwing himself off the balcony made me laugh so hard that I cried 🤣 Thank you for continuing to endure and keeping the Goodest Boah going!
18:17 there’s something strangely beautiful on how hosea just ends himself in slow motion, was cracking up the whole time
Something just snapped, something inside of him, probably his neck
Man that absolutely sent me lmao
god that was so good
I laughed so hard when that what the fuck screen popped up
Perfect music for a hilariously perfect moment.
Honestly well done. You really stepped up the production value of this episode, as you always do. You deserve praise for it, so again, good job!
Really appreciate that man, thank you!
Hosea throwing himself over the railing is an instant highlight moment of the series for me. I was dying of laughter.
YEET
Me too I loved that being the result of hours and hours committed to this 😂😂
the sheer commitment and determination Eyezayar has to this challenge is something to behold.
The fact you can actually find the first attempts at this mission over 2 years before this video was uploaded speaks for itself.
We have to imagine sysyphus happy
I’ve forgotten about this series like 4 times and the joy I have when you upload and I suddenly discover it again is immense
Eyezayar, in risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to just say that this series means a ton to me; its the best series on youtube hands down in my opinion. So much has happened in my life the past few years but this series always remains a comfortable place that I can return to when times are tough. Thanks for sticking with it man.
Means a lot my friend, thank you. Happy to hear this series can still bring some enjoyment in that way. Hope you've been well and thank you for sticking around as long as you have!
@@eyezayarHey so I decided to give it a try myself on this mission and was originally gonna do the whole game without kills but decided instead to just load a save replay the Mission you were on and try to do the next section which was the wagon
Now I didn't try too many times without trying this and I'm not sure if it will work for you because I did accidentally kill one guys horse however
I think a strategy that worked for me is
Shoot them in the hands around there weapons with weak weapons to keep them temporarily at bay it somehow kept Hosea alive and didn't kill them
Also for some reason they also killed themselves when they got too close I'm not sure why though but the wagon kept catching fire for a sec which kept killing the enemies
I think they were either shooting out the lantern on the wagon or throwing molotovs or something regardless though
If all else fails try shooting them in the hands and weapons with weak weapons to stun them for a sec
Anyways just thought this might be useful
eyezayer found a strat in arthur becomes and that was to wave his guns at them without firing once. Davey the double-barreled shotgun@@gabrielchastain6091
I think that placing the TNT presents a dilemma to the shooters. They could A) turn and run or B) continue to shoot and risk hurting themselves. By their choice of option B they have essentially consented to un-aliving themselves, therefore not making W.J. responsible. A choice was presented, and they chose poorly. There was no clear “intent” in placing the TNT and it can’t be proven your intended goal was for them to be un-alived. I say the challenge is still valid
Your editing flair and sense of effort in every video will ensure the success of your channel man, well done!!
Thanks a lot man!
@@eyezayar one reason Kratos walking into fire was fine is because he's escaped various hell's so much he has a road map. It barely counts even if you did shove him in. The same may apply here, you said yourself this was unusual behaviour for drunkards, were they ever human to begin with? Were they even still alive, or just puppets for something else?
Crazy, because this was from so long ago. I remember watching him discover the stairs live
@@eyezayarI suggest that you practice your parkour skills in Saint Denis, because it will definitely be a helpful ability in the future, I’ve spent hours trying to achieve very stupid goals like getting to the tops of certain buildings, seeing how high i can get, and seeing if I can climb every to the top of every building section. And because of my hours of experience doing stupid shit, I was able to see that path with the railway almost immediately, I seriously consider you try it
@@eyezayarSaint Denis is perfect because of all of the slopes and ledges and stairways
18:30 I couldn't stop laughing when Hosea decided to jump to his death. I guess he was tired of the hours of fighting the guy 🙂
This is an interesting moral quandary I'd have to go with innocent based on a few factors
A) they instigated the fight and introduced firearms with the intent to kill accepting the responsibility that someone may have a firearm and shoot at them back.
B) as a deterrent you placed the dynamite to get them to stop shooting and hid behind the table for cover.
C) the game not counting them as your kills also makes this easier coupled with the fact you didn't force them to shoot they did it themselves.
This man is just dedicating hours days months years to do a challenge nobody is making him do and I HEAVILY respect it
18:20 Bro I’m in tears this was the most hilarious thing I’ve seen in so long
It had me laughing for 20 minutes straight
@@BerkelBoy Ave Maria. I think this version is from one of the older Hitman games
Please don't give up on this challenge no matter how difficult it is, this series is amazing and hilarious,
also I absolutely love all the side characters you created, three gun Gary, the cliff goblins, PTSD Micah, the bulletrpoof knife guy, and frank are all pretty awesome and each has their own backstoty that fleshes them out
In the editing you can clearly see the insanity growing with every strategy😂😂
@DontReadMyProfilePicture.104 alright 👍
@DontReadMyProfilePicture.104ok
These are all so well made. Part challenge video, part alternate universe fanfic, part machinima… just incredible levels of effort and talent
Eyezayar I cannot express just how much this series means to me, I have been watching it since day 1 and have gone through so much since then. And this is unironically the best video game series on the entire internet.
Thanks a lot Parem, really appreciate that
Not to muddy the water too much, but maybe consider adding a third category of "ambiguous" or "gray area" kills or something?
Also, I absolutely love and adore this series, and I'm so glad to see it back. And your cinematics and creative bits in these videos are truly really cool and fun to watch.
I think when it comes down to a final count, there may be a place for some third category where less conventional strats were used.
And thanks a lot man, that means a lot to hear. New one soon!
Your editing and storytelling will always be unmatched 👑
Bravo vince
Innocent (also the production value of this series and the amount of time and effort you put into it is incredible! This is by far the best series on UA-cam!)
Innocent! Oh and by the way I am so glad to see this series return. It has got to be super frustrating to put these together with all of the trial and error required, but this is one of my favorite RDR2 series' of all time. Keep it up!
Dynamite is a mining tool. They disrespected a tool and suffered an injury. With the logic they are cognitive enough to use guns, they can choose not to use guns on dynamite.
Same idea with Kratos and the fire. The intention wasn't explicitly to cause harm, if anything it was just adding to the cover. Who knows if they could have shot the stick while it was in your pocket?
As far as I’m concerned, if they watch you setting up the dynamite, can see it’s there the whole time and still shoot it, it’s on them. Plus, Alfred Nobel invented dynamite to help with building and mining, therefore I’d say it’s a tool rather than a weapon
What if it was accidental? It's like saying that if someone kidnapped me and forced me to walk across a narrow wooden beam across two buildings, then it's my fault if I die since I can see the drop beneath me and I'm the one that slipped, not the kidnapper.
The original purpose of the knife was to assist in cutting and carving meat, wood, and other materials, but that doesn't mean it isn't a weapon. The same thing applies for dynamite. Just because it was invented for practical use doesn't excuse any violent or malicious actions performed with said object.
@@Boileryardbro why so pressed this is the second time I’ve seen u on this vid
@@blipblapblop2447 Oh no I commented twice on the same video 😱😱😱😱😱😱 how shall I ever repay my sins?
I'm not pressed and I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just presenting possible arguments for the other side.
@@Boileryard"oh no i commented twice on the same video how shall i repent for my sins" does not help your case regarding you not being upset
@@Boileryard The difference there is that you are being forced to perform a dangerous action, but the enemies in the video are not compelled to do so.
It's always a pleasure to watch this series continue! The camera angles, shots and the rewritten storyline are gold. As for the verdict, W.J. is innocent. Dynamite can serve as a tool too, like blowing up rocks to allow safe passage.
This man is going to have a hell of a time doing the Colm hanging mission
What about My last son? You have to do a kill there or else you wont do the mission
the editing in this episode was SO GOOD, i missed tgb so much i’m so hyped it’s back
the continued corralling of the RDR story to fit this strange narrative continues to amaze; keep up the storytelling, eyezayar, it's the best bit.
I love this series man your dedication does not go unnoticed
The cinematic shot of hosea throwing himself down the railing was so perfect it was hilarious. Loved this video
The editing and storytelling in TGB is so good! i love these interludes and narrative cinematics.
I'd have to rule innocent for this one. The dynamite was put there in clear vision of the enemies, and they chose to continue shooting at it. If you continue to do something that is dangerous, despite being fully aware that it could end in your death, then that is the fault of no-one but yourself.
Based on hownthe game reacts and how pistol whipping only knocks someone out and the fact Hosea is fine just a few feet away, I'd argue that those men are knocked out from the explosion and not dead.
i think the dynamite strat should count as half a kill. like you said, you dont shoot them with a gun, or throw the dynamite, but they would'nt have died if you didnt place it there. i see it as both you ad the npc's are responsible, so the point is split
also, your editing seems to have improved by a lot, you can really tell time and effort has been put into this video and its editing. very good job :)
Think about it Alfred Nobel created dynamite with the intent of mining for resources which makes dynamite a demolition tool not a weapon
My verdict is the dynamite usage is a valid pacifist strategy (TLDR at the end).
It essentially comes down to the fact that while Arthur is choosing to create a *potential* hazard, the enemies are the ones choosing to make it an *active* hazard. It’s not like he sneakily laid mines under them, he very visibly placed the dynamite on the table and then did nothing. The enemies absolutely saw the dynamite, and it was their decision to prioritize satisfying their bloodlust over their own safety.
Yes, your head-canon is that all of the enemies are absurdly drunk (which isn’t necessarily the case), but at a certain point being under the influence doesn’t absolve you of responsibility for your actions. If you’re sober enough to competently take part in an organized gun fight, you’re sober enough to recognize that shooting at a target right next to a stick of dynamite is a significant health risk. There’s always the potential that they could avoid hitting it and take out Arthur anyway, and if they think that’s worth the risk, that’s no one’s judgment call but their own.
While you were right in saying Arthur technically has more responsibility in creating the hazard here than when it’s a “natural” hazard like a fire or cliff or train, it’s still the enemies’ choice to put themselves in danger and prioritize killing Arthur over their own safety. It’s not the same as him pushing them off a cliff and saying “well I didn’t kill them, the ground did!” The enemies have every opportunity to decide not to follow you along the cliff face or run in front of the very obvious train, but if they are so invested in killing Arthur that they make the choice to risk their lives, and that risk ends poorly, it was still ultimately their choice to not accept the chance to see sense and just walk away.
In this sense, placing the dynamite is no more blame on Arthur than fighting around an open flame. Similar to the final battle between Obiwan and Anakin, if Arthur sets up and points out / makes obvious any *deterrent* defenses that only have the potential to hurt the attackers if they continue to attack anyway, or puts himself in a position that creates obvious risk for the attacker (“Its over, I have the high ground!”), and the enemies are either so hateful or so arrogant that they disregard their own safety and try anyway (“You underestimate my power!”), then Arthur can’t be held responsible for the consequences of their actions.
Honestly I’d say defensive tactics like this are *more* pacifist than the traditional “lasso them to the ground so they can be killed by an ally”, because in that case you’re just helping someone else kill them (even if it is in self defense), whereas in this category of “kills” you’re using tools or the environment purely defensively, and the enemies are making the decision to get themselves killed rather than accept Arthur’s pleas for peace and walk away.
And fun fact addressing your argument that the dynamite is explicitly a weapon where the other things weren’t: Alfred Nobel invented dynamite in 1867 to be used specifically for mining (to replace more unstable/dangerous explosives). Basically the whole world immediately went “fuck that” and bought it all to use in warfare instead; newspapers even began calling Nobel “The Merchant of Death”.
He was so horrified that his invention became automatically used for violence that he donated his entire life fortune to create the Nobel Peace Prize Foundation, to recognize those who dedicated their lives to making the world a more enlightened, safe, and united place.
So it really comes full circle back to the story of our Goodest Boah lol
*TLDR:* The dynamite kills (and other “environmental kills” in that category) are totally valid and should be considered pacifist, because no matter how the hazards are created, as long as they are defensive in nature and obvious enough to be understood by the enemies, it’s their decision, not Arthur’s, to risk (and potentially lose) their lives for a chance at victory, just as in any other form of combat.
Fair enough. I guess I just have a hard time buying that the enemies consciously, in their drunken state, took the risk of firing near dynamite. But I can see your point.
So, if it was done by regular Arthur, I would consider him innocent. But given Eyezayar's headcanon, as much as it breaks my heart, I can't pass the same judgement for W. J.
Placing defenses is within the Golden Guidelines. However, it must be demonstrated that W. J.'s foes are fully aware and consicious of said defenses, and the risk that they're taking when walking into them, which cannot be demonstrated here.
What if I set up a trap room and deliberately run pursuers through it?
I could do this to cops who have every right to be chasing me and it's clearly murder.
Saying 'they should have seen the threat to themselves and acted differently' would absolve all 'trap' kills.
The moral corruption in this is very real even if you can get off the charges in court.
In himself Arthur would know why the dynamite was put there and why the enemies died.
The campfire is different because he could just have been camping and failed to prevent the man falling into the fire.
@@thomaskilroy3199 yes but see if you set up a trap that is only visible from the other side of the doorway that would automatically put you in cuffs, W.J. merely placed down the Dynamite in full view (and intended to pick it up later). Fully conscious men who saw the potential hazard continued to fire their guns. My client is not guilty on the basis that the assailants had plenty of opportunities to stop shooting and put their safety above their bloodlust.
I recently discovered this channel and these are probably the best gameplay videos I've ever seen in 10 years of youtube, I'm not even exagerating, they are perfect, I'm addicted
Hey hope you notice this because you can avoid killing the guy in last chapter 2 mission by shooting near his elbow (for some reason it will give you positive honor) and immediately shooting him in the head. Three reasons why it's not a kill:
1) Hitmarker is grey
2) If you aim at guy immediately after shooting him he's still alive because the crosshair is red. He only dies after touching the ground without any indication that it's because of you.
3)Doesn't count towards kill count in weapons part of compendium
You know he’s on chapter 3 now right?
@@enzotruchon9225 he's referencing another video where he could've avioded a technical death, not this one
@@enzotruchon9225he is talking about the guy that holds John with a knife to the neck (AKA first death of the series)
My verdict is that like the campfire, TNT is actually a tool. It's used for mining, of course, and mining accidents can happen all the time!
i haven't even gotten into a minute but i need to tell you that; Eyezayar your editing and effort put into these videos is amazing. I look forward to each one because they're worth multiple watches. They're fantastically put together and easily, this is one of my favorite series of ANY media. Cheers to you, mate!
Thank you man, really glad you enjoy it. Appreciate the support
After over a month of debating, I conclude innocent, because even if it's your fault, it doesn't matter. it's not confirmed they are dead. Hosea survived the explosion and was way closer to it and had less cover. The knockback may have just knocked them out.
Easily innocent, look you being able to do what you do is already mindblowing, this game does not want to give you a helping hand. I think it's totally fair to use strategies of this type when the "preferred" ones run out. This series is so much fun already, and having this possibility will make brainstorming missions strategies even cooler.
Also the editing is top notch, I'm so happy to see how much you grew as a content creator, keep the awesome work going, independent of the series.
For sure it meets a 'no kill' run's ruleset.
But it's morphed into a 'do no evil' run. Which has higher standards.
Been following this series and you since you got like 8.000 subscribers and I am so incredibly glad I did because you are creating art, entertainement and everything I need whenever I wanna have a good time.
Thank you!!!
god I missed this white-dressed barefoot man and his telekinetic talking horse so much
glad you're at it again, mate! this series is pure gold
Dynamite was created as a tool for mining. So if we think of dynamite as a mining tool, you could argue that the sticks of dynamite fell out of your pocket. That the enemies shot it is up to them
Always a great day when an episode of tgb drops
This series is truly amazing and addicting! Hilarious at times and ultimately THE most entertaining on all of UA-cam. You deserve all the praise and then some, for all the hard work and mental effort it takes to make one of these episodes!
P.S. “I can take this if you want” 😂
this series is one of the best made things ive watched, you can see the effort put in and its impressive, also hes innocent!!
18:00 was so glorious and I laughed so hard that I subscribed and liked your video. Beautiful work ❤
For me this was one of those times where i discovered your channel yesterday, watched this entire series with glee, and I wake up to this. Marvelous!
I just wanted to say that I have just discovered this series, and I am so happy that I can watch it as it is unfolding, I really enjoy these videos!
I just love how you include Arthur into your suffering, the life this man has lived by the end will be a feat of human perseverance unlike anything seen before.
This entire series Western Jesus facilitates deaths, indirectly, he sets up Micah and others to kill people all the time. So I think it’s fine. You could use that though. This realization that while he is principled as he follows the challenges rules, he’s not really any different than the rest of the gang could cause Western Jesus to split with the Gang in chapter 6.
Dynamite is not just a weppon, it is a tool for opening things ie bank vaults, Mr morgan was simply attempting to open that table up for he believed "THE BUG" was trapped inside, he then requested the assistance of the two men but that unfortunately led to their deaths.
3:29 thought my phone died for a second there
32:20 The jury gives the verdict Not guilty
You could also argue that since dynamite was created as a mining/construction tool and not originally as a weapon that it falls into the tool category just as the campfire
Didnt the guy who invented dynamite get a nobel peace prize?
Alfred nobel created both
man I love your videos dude, so much passion and talent! you're seriously appreciated man, keep going and do what you love
That's really sweet man, thanks for sticking around for as long as you have! 3 years is crazy
@@eyezayar and for as long as you have that passion and wit, I'll stay
your storytelling is getting better and better, keep it up i love this series
Even though i dont play red dead redemption. This guy knows how to make great videos. You should make more like this!
As other comments have said, Laurel and Hardy watched you set up the dynamite, and still decided to shoot. They did it to themselves. It's the old, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." It's the same thing as Kratos burning his ass. Western Jesus did not sin.
You’re easily one of the best UA-camrs I’ve seen on the platform. Yet another masterpiece in editing, narration, and direction. Congrats on the finishing of this video.
Applying game logic, you didn't kill them.
Applying morals, you did. You set a trap, and they sprung it. I would argue that the same goes for the campfire since its intended purpose is to kill.
Fuck Yeah he's back boys, Good to see you Eyezayar🎉
Your channel is criminally underrated, even though a quarter of a million subscriber is a fuck ton, I'll still think your criminally underrated when you hit a million which I know you will. Been watching since you're character analysis and had no idea how great your channel would become. Love your shit mate.
I love your editing and in game cinematography....it really adds to the idea tht western jesus has his own story apart from arthur and the gang
Every video becomes better and better, from the editing to the script, it's a chefs kiss (no I don't believe they count as Western Jesus' kills)
I’ve been waiting for these episodes man love the work the dedication and content keep it up
Thanks a lot mate :)
these are easily some of the most well made videos on youtube no joke
@philm0graphy I started watching his videos a long time ago with his analysis of RDR2 characters and fell in love with his style. His narratives are fantastic. 🙂
Your persistence is the stuff of legends. It's what keeps me coming back for more. Arthur is 100% innocent and absolved of any wrongdoing, they didn't have to shoot the dynamite.
Exactly. Imagine trying to shoot someone and they walk two feet in front of you, plant two sticks of dynamite on a table, and then run behind that same table. Someone with any will to live/kill Arthur would just shoot him at the many opportunities they had. Instead they shot the obvious dynamite obviously planted in front of them while standing motionless directly next to it. No other way to put it than suicide
When I saw Hosea realize that TGB saved him and in that realization yeeted himself over the railing I knew this had bad news written all over it… like in permanent marker and shit.
it's been awhile, glad to see more of it
O.O! The amount of effort you put into this is just amazing.
The number of camera pans and changes.
When you paused the whole game so you could have the camera follow the path you wanted to try but couldn't.
You are taking this yet another step up. Kudos and pride for ya sir. Kudos and pride.
i am so glad this series is still going
Dynamite should be layed there before the men show up. Arthur Jesus can't predict the future and was only temporarily storing his boom sticks.
I knew at first that your strategy wasn’t bad or didn’t count as a kill, but your reasoning further convinced me that you were innocent, the sheer commitment and enthusiasm you had for this was more than enough and you blessed us with that, thank you eyezar, even if this series takes 10 years we will be with you, experiencing the emotions you feel, the frustration and sorrow of rockstar just being unwilling and kind of softlocking the game, and the feeling of achievement that we gain together
king of yap
@@efedindar2079 :(
Its kind of fitting that dynamite is used considering that it was invented by Alfred Nobel and then he went and created the Nobel Prizes
just rewatched the entirety of TGB, the timing is impeccable
literally.
I was rewatching it as I worked last night
I sometimes forget that we're only in chapter 3, keep it up man! One day you'll get there and I'm ready for the entire journey!
18:18 just made my day, haven't laughed like this for a while
The production quality on this series only continues to go up and up. Everything from the script to the top tier editing, nobody does it like eyezayar
It’s crazy to see how cinematic the newer seasons of TGB have gotten.
just the other day i was wondering if this type of playthrough was even possible, i’m glad i wasn’t the one to test it. thank you for the time dedicated to this
I’m going to say innocent, as someone stated in the comments, Hosea was just as close to it as they were and he survived. And because of a lack of a kill marker it can be safe to say they are potentially unconscious in a way, albeit possibly a stretch. None the less I say innocent
A bit off topic, but you have great taste in background music. Desperados 3, Hitman, even MK2
I would say the dynamite is a valid strategy so long as you genuinely can't find another way to do it
But he still killed two people. Just because it was the only way doesn't excuse the fact that two people were killed.
Two people were killed by shooting the dynamite that they WATCHED HIM SLOWLY PLACE. ITS THEIR OWN DUMB ASS FAULT FOR SHOOTING IT. No kills. Valid strat.
@@BoileryardDo you think the campfire was a valid strat?
@@eggchomp It's hard to say. The men never had the intention to hit the dynamite and blow themselves up, but Arthur did. The men's negligence in this scenario could be excused because they were drunk and probably have disorienting tinnitus from loud gunshots in a confined space. Arthur also had complete awareness over the situation which strengthens his accountability.
In the campfire strat, Arthur had the intention to kill the man and purposefully lured the man into a trap which he knew would kill him. And if the man was careless enough to step in the fire then clearly he didn't have enough awareness, which could be through angered tunnel vision.
This is getting a bit hypothetical for a silly video game challenge, but I would say that Arthur is responsible for death in both scenarios since he had intention to kill, full awareness over what would happen, and took advantage of the opponent's lack of awareness, such as the raiders being drunk, or Kratos having tunnel vision from anger and not being able to see surrounding danger.
@@Boileryardhe lassoes and disarms people in front of hostile gunmen. If getting Bill to kill three-gun Gary wasn't Arthur's fault, then neither is this dynamite.
can i just say, i came across the series and loved it, i started from the first episode and binged to here. Please dont give up on this series.
Just binged watched this entire series of videos and subbed because of it 😅
I feel like I can see your editing get better every video!
I know its been 4 months now but I've put some thought into it and wanted to throw my hat into the ring.
So the way I look at this situation, is that while Arthur doesn't directly kill the two men, he purposefully sets up the dynamite with the intention of them being blown up and killed. Now at first glance I considered it as 2 kills until I thought about it some more.
If we think back to throughout the series, there are several instances where it could be argued that Arthur is "Setting up a kill". Whether its sending Micah in a frenzy to attack enemies for you, or tying enemies in a companions line of fire for them to get shot, or leading an enemy to there death.
If this instance was to be considered as deaths, then it would require evaluating the entire series and look at when Arthur was intentionally leading an enemy to there death.
If we want to stick to the established rules of TGB, then I suggest that it does not count as two deaths.
Incredible episode in an incredible show.
That being said, guilty. Always felt that Kratos burning in the campfire was murder too.
Although I always prefer that to simple murder obviously.
I think the same way you count Kills and K.O., you should keep track of those « induced environmental accidents ».
Great series, you are one of the very few people making me go back to UA-cam once in a while to rewatch some of my favorites.
Hoping your mental health is not too damaged for our fun.
Sorry of my english is weird btw.
I think the fact that you didn’t light it and they shot it means the blame is on them, before you threw dynamite at them and they jumped out of the way to save themselves, they knew what the dynamite did and had the mechanics necessary to save themselves but didn’t, Arthur Morgan is still The Goodest Boah in The West in my opinion
Massively underrated. One of the few series for which a new upload is really exciting. Keep it up sir.
I say it should be allowed. Here’s why.
Ultimately for the series in general from a pure entertainment standpoint, having a final resort to a problem after hours and hours of testing more “normal” strategies still being a challenge within itself seems like a more interesting concept. It’s not like this strategy is a get out of jail free for any situation (i.e. enemies that do not shoot, forced deadeye where dynamite cannot be placed, no viable areas to place dynamite, etc) . It still requires planning, strategy, and a bit of luck to work if it is to work at all. Removing it in its entirety leaves the ending of every “impossible” segment to just be a shot to the head with no further elaboration. It allows for greater creativity whilst still remaining in the spirit of the challenge.
Your honour, I rest my case
Exactly. This game was clearly not designed to be beaten by not using violence/killing your enemies and getting this far with so much effort not to actively kill, proves in my opinion that player has done his ultimate best and deserves the moral high ground. INNOCENT I say.
So just because it's entertaining means he's innocent? Ok, so if I strap a subwoofer to my back with neon lights and kill 30 people then its perfectly fine because at least it was entertaining?
Yeah he went out of his way to try every possible way not to cause those two deaths and they ultimately died of their of free choice when they knowingly shot at dynamite in close proximity. Would have never blown up if the NPCs didn’t chose violence.
@@Boileryard Yes, because that is what I’m saying. If you completely ignore the context in which the question was asked, bingo. He said himself it’s a decision about the future of the series, not an actual damn court case lmfao
18:37 And the Emmy for "Best Supporting Stuntman" goes to... Hosea Mathews!
When I forgot of his existence the most. He returned.