Marshall JVM Comparison | 410H v Joe Satriani Model
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
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00:00 - Intro
00:44 - Clean
01:38 - Crunch Orange
02:03 - OD1 Orange
02:50 - OD2 Red
04:03 - Thoughts
06:21 - Can You Hear the Difference?
Joe or no?
Joe all the way, sounds more “musical”.
Not in this amp version
Joe.
The JS version does it for me for sure. It sounds more refined and musical to my ears. I do have a couple of questions Leon, were all channels on both amps dialed the same? Also, any chance you could have Santiago Alvarez in the show to do a mini interview on the Joe version?
I've always liked Joe as a player (who doesn't?) but his tones have never been my thing.
His tone has pretty much always been looser, more gnarly in the mids, and overall much darker than what my ear wants to hear. Funny that his sig Marshall almost directly reflects that.
Original JVM410H for me, all day long. It's so much crisper all around.
Wow! that lead playing at the end was the best part of the video 🤩
as always great video
Thanks! 😃
Great vid. I think that rather than showing one amp to be “better” than the other, they are just different and both cool in their own right.
Great comparison. I have owned both at one point or another. The Satch version is definitely more refined and has a sweeter mid range to it. Both are great amps.
Really enjoying listening to your podcast on Spotify.
Thanks! It's a great time
Owned both, sold the Satriani version.
For me only the crunch channel was a bit better on the Satriani head, the other channels were (much) better on the original JVM IMO.
Great video man! Ripping in that last tune!
Thanks brother! These both really impressed me. Now I need to try find some of the weird 90's Marshalls like the JCM600 and JTM60 :p
The JS amp is definitely more for me... but the gold nugget here is the last 40 seconds of the video of you just shredding the sh!t out of everything. So amazing. Love it!
Thankyou!
I owned both of these amps and the satriani gates made all the difference to me. Original JVM had to much buzz and gain while satriani was dead quiet. I even modded the original with a choke and a bunch of other but still I liked the JS. JS was beefier so in a mix it may not sound better but by itself I prefer it. I finally sold my original a year ago. Also to note I'm not sure why they are both JVM's because when you open them up they look a lot different even though the front looks the same. The effects loop on the JS was better for my needs and pedalboard and the line out to the board seemed to be clearer to me and the gates were amazing. Only thing the JS lacked that the JVM had was reverb. I really liked the reverb in the JVM and missed it in the JS version.
As for the video, thanks Leon for finally doing this. I've probably been suggesting this for 5 years and glad you finally found them to compare and the time to do it. Thanks!
I will say I listened to this on a TV and the original sounded better and beefier but I know it's not because I could never get my JVM to be as full as the JS. So I listened on my phone with the JBL mod speaker and the JS sounded cleaner and then I listened with the Bose headphones and JS was cleaner and clearer in most modes. The JVM on clean green sounds amazing and the JS sounds great on all 3. The JS on crunch sounds just like you said and I felt like the JVM was a little lacking in your demo but when I compared mine side by side I felt they were close with the JS a little thicker sounding but the difference was I tweaked the controls on the JVM to get it to sound beefier where you left the controls the same.
The JS is identical on channels 3 and 4 so there is no sound difference unless you tweak the knobs.
In your demo the JVM is very close sounding on channel 3 or 4 to the JS on 3 or 4 with the JS sounding a bit chunkier at times but when I side by sided mine the JS had a fuller sound while the JVM had a thinner but more aggressive sound. Channel 4 orange on the JVM sounded great to me and it's the channel I usually used when gigging. When I finally bought my JS, I never played the JVM live again, the JS was more useable for me. They are both great amps and so versatile but wished the JVM had noise gates.
Now I'm not sure which amp was which with the leads and they sounded almost identical but it seemed A may have been a little louder but maybe that's because of mids. I would probably say A was the JS. So when do we find out which was which?😊
I think the Satch has more grit and bite to it. At least that's what it sounds like to me. It's hard to tell when you listen from a phone. 😅 Sounding awesome as usual! Keep on rocking! 😎👍
I was hoping this comparison was coming… love the Satch model JVM!
VERY helpful and insightful video. Much appreciated!
Glad it was helpful!
Definitely diggin the Satch version best!
Also remember that the jvm410hjs is the last Marshall with the sign of Jim himself on.
Wow! You can hear the dynamics and compression but voice is a big difference, am glad I pick up the satch version.
Great video. The comparison to OD1 Orange is exactly why I kept my 410 over the Satch Model. That channel is just money for me, it's pure modded Marshall which everyone always wanted Marshall to do. That channel alone is my rhythm, and lead tone...just use the volume knob on the guitar and a slight volume bump for lead. So many amps in the time I've owned the 410 have come and gone and that channel alone is why it's my number one. As I've said since I owned the Satch Model, it's a more refined version of the 410 which is exactly what Joe wanted because he relies on pedals to shape his tone as well. That's what he needed. Both great amps - if you want "more" go with the 410 if you want more refined try and track down the Satch. One note, I do prefer the loop on the Satch as I like a true serial loop and I wish Marshall would ditch the reverb on the 410 and add the gates. Nice touch there.
Yeah if OD1 orange was the only channel it had I'd be happy. So good.
I’ve had the 410HJS for over 10 years now. It’s an inspiration machine. It takes pedals incredibly well in the loop and in front of the amp. You really nailed the strengths of both. The crunch on the 410HJS can produce some incredible blues tones as well. Nice playing!
For me mate, I like the 410H for rhythm and the Satch model for the solos, I'd love to have both tbh! Good to see an Aussie doin' his thang! on ya bro, love from country VIC. 🤘
Original for me LT. Have an awesome weekend brother!
They both have their own thing going. But as you say, the Satch version is just a bit smoother. And when you kicked on the chorus during the clean stuff, the Satch version just sounded like aural heaven. I definitely wouldn't turn down the standard version, but the Satch version is more "me".
Would also like to see a video on Carvin Legacy 3 Steve Vai signature amp as well.
Great comparision , I have the 410 , the JS sound's much better , the OD 2 on the amp's sound similar , but the JS imo sounds better 😀
Very cool. They sound similar.. They sound great though! Joe is a genius guitar player obviously.. I always wanted one of his Peavey Tube Amps, but I never really saw many for sale.. I think most people that get them must hang on to them! He always has more gain it seems to me in his pedals and amps which I love! More is more! 😛
I just love listening to you jam on that guitar man! It sounds so good. Those Suhr pickups just rock! Now, you've got me addicted to the laces as well which I'll have to buy some day and put in a strat or tele or something! Very cool sir.. Always a great listen and great new info for me on this channel. Love it!
Be safe sir..
Both great amps. For me the JS just wins by a small margin. I love how it has a noise gate instead of reverb too. Oh and can we see more of your soloing please leon. That was jaw dropping.
I do just love that OD2 on the standard!
CHONKY
The original has a bigger Marshall logo on the tin which makes it better 😉 Looking forward to your JCM 2000 comparison 😊
Hahaha exactly!
Thanks for the comparison. I like the JS, but not more than my standard JVM410, thankfully.
I wouldn't want a really clean / always clean in a Marshall.The clean green setting is clean for a Marshall JTM-45, but I usually use orange for edge of breakup or red, to get to the JTM-45/100. The crunch channel is what I use most, JTM-45/100 SLP 1959 to JMP to JCM800 tones.
I can get all the Marshall tones I want, OD2 red is great for leads.
Thanks for doing this Leon. Ya know in the end the Satch is just a natural evolution of an already pretty great amp. The Satch has faster midi switching, less fizzy compressed gain, lower noise floor, more classic tones and God if there isn't enough on tap you are clearly compensating for something. With a Duncan EVH 78 on a super strat, with every gain set to one o'clock the clean grn is 30 anniversary( I have owned one), orange/red is just more gain( great for pedals ore weeker pickup guitars, red is this super warm compressed clean gain. Second channel grn is like my early jmp master volume amp. Orn/red like jcm 800. Od channel with the 78 and gain at 1:00 does the superlead 1959 tone really well. Then od orng/red just more modern sounding. If you are not getting all this then you are not using compatible pickups and speakers.
I own the reg 410h, a beast of an amp!
Just makes me want one of each since they do different sounds.
I have seen Joe live many times and each time I go home to figure out what it is he is doing to make his sound so amazing. I have always wondered what speakers he is using. This video really shows the difference his amp makes. You nailed it on the cleaner version, I have said that all along. Nicely done
Joe uses a standard 1960 cab
@@martincockburn6821 Yes I have seen that but the question is which speakers, 1960a comes stock with g12-t75, during a rig run down he said 65’s
@@Smith5665jim from what ive seen standard speakers.
Joe is not big on changing speakers all the time. He mostly uses what comes stock in the cab.
Hearing the video from a phone, and even doing so I can hear the Satch version is a lot less harsh (I Guess nothing which cannot be solved touching the eq knobs).
I have had the opportunity of playing a regular 410 live several times and It is a hell of an amp, sounded amazing.
I'm happy I stuck with the reg 410H, and I don't like the mid-shift much at all...but I do like OD2 on the HJS without mid-shift engaged more than OD2 on the 410H. Also, Crunch mode on the 410H is literally one resistor away from exactly how a JCM800 is wired with regards to negative feedback, and they both have the exact same power section, so whatever Joe had them do is different than both. I also like the Clean channel on the 410H better since it just gives me more tonal options. Not that you did this, but I love how Marshall "purists" complain the JVM "sounds nothing like a JCM800, man!"...meanwhile, if I wanted a JCM800, I would've bought one instead of the JVM. Cheers! ;)
Oh yes, and I don't love the loop on the reg 410H....they messed that bit up for sure, and it's apparently much better on the HJS, so I kinda wish I had that loop instead. Apparently there's a mod to solve that issue for the 410H though...
Heya, kinda agree with the loop issues on the regular JVM, I tend to use kill dry effects in the switchable loop, set to a wet/dry mix rather than 100% wet.
Nice comparison. I own the normal JVM wich is more agressive as you said. More modern. I'm going Amp A is the Satriani
I have the JS version. Glad I do...the crunch channel on the stock model sounds lifeless and weak, but that channel is my favorite on all three colors for the 410HJS. Did you have the gain in 2 or something?
Great demos mate 😊 That was really interesting... I still haven't gotten around to doing that myself 😅 they both do different things so well. The clean on the JS is based on the 6100 and the crunch on the 800. They need to make a 6 channel version with the best of both in one 😂 .....and which was A and B ? I should know....I'm thinking A is the satch ?
Correct! Those big creamy mids really shine through
@@LeonTodd that's good to know I can pick which one is which 😅
I liked B over A at the end there, but don't know which one I chose. Both sounded good. I think I would be happy with either. Just looking for another very versatile amp :)
Huhhhhh... interesting. I wasn't expecting such a difference between the OD channels. Allegedly they're meant to be the same, and if you engage the mid shift on the JS version it's like switching to OD2 on the nonJS one. But that isn't what I'm hearing here.
I own the Satch one and love it. Might have to pickup a nonSatch one now.
Joe already needs softer channels because his guitar has a very aggressive Satchur8 pickup. And according to him, it is better to have a reserve on the volume knob on the guitar than on the amplifier. In short, it is a tailor-made device. And the mid-range game bet is genius. Nothing stands out as well in a band that isn't built around vocals. Nice comparison, thank you.
It's a simple filter cap and resistor mod. To make a standard JVM sound like the JS.
Interesting, do you have more info about this?
@Leon Todd , hey Leon, what a fantastic review. A mix of both would be great!!
How do you feel about using a jvm 410 h in a small flat??
Unfortunately the noise isolation isn‘t that good so I think that my neighbours would hate me…
So after we were writing about the FM3/FM9 the question is modeler or this Marshall.
Or maybe having s Soldano 100 built (two tubes less so less power)……
Quite long ago I sent you a PM…..maybe you‘d like to answer there….
The JVM models in the Fractal are spot on so in a flat I'd go that way
Standand version sounds better to me. I am not a Marshall guy, so I am not nostalgic to "good old JCM 800" I used to have at the time. JVM is the first Marshall I really like, and I like Friedmann and Ceriatone more, because they sound the way how I would like Marshall to sound.
Great video and you summed it up perfectly.
For your style I prefer the original JVM I think - it’s bigger, more scooped and modern, a bit more grunt to it. Satriani version has some nice squish and the crunch and OD1 modes do a nice classic Marshall thing with a ton of modern features around it.
They’re both equally great and valid amps, but which do you prefer? And where say the DSL compares (tonally I mean, feature wise it’s a bit unfair to compare)
Oh and on the leads, A cuts through nice and sounds more midrangey - guessing this is the Satriani. Somehow I felt like even though on B some of the notes were getting lost, it seemed to have more personality. Could just be how it is for this specific guitar/part/settings etc. I’m sure both amps can also have a lot of overlap if they’re set differently.
@@eds4754 Correct, A is the satch. Voiced perfectly for leads
It's easy to hear with your eyes. Or maybe just hear what you want to hear. What I heard was, if you closed your eyes, I could tweak gain and use an EQ pedal to make either one fool you to which you were actually hearing. The only meaningful difference to me is whether you want reverb or noise gate!
Since most of will never own the Joe, it would be great if you could do a video A/B ing it against the same amp in the Satriani signature pack in Amplitube. Joe ditched that for the Tech 21 plug in on Elephants of Mars but he hasn't said much else about it. It seems odd to spend all that time and effort and promotion only to kinda turn around and give it the middle finger. Can't argue with the tone on that album though, it is great as always.
definitely better the original, of course imho. Thanks for the video!
I own both as well along with 3 JCM800 heads all 80s manufactured
Yes the Satch out of the box is a superior head but I can replicate anything the Satch is doing using pedals I even manage a very close jcm800 with the crunch channels gain dropped hard and then using the Jhs Andy Timmons overdrive plus
I use the g spot decimator,Keeley Halo, Keeley mini comp, mxr phase 90, cry baby mini 535q, Boss Waza Chorus, so everything is buffered and proper Fx run through the Fx loop of the Marshall
CIOKS dc7 to power the lot
And a keeley neutron that is sometimes in there
Reverb is onboard the 410 of course
The amount of sounds and channels available are intimidating through a 4x12
I would put my rig against nearly any setup and expect to get very, very close
The only amp I couldn’t seem to cover,so I bought one and that’s the Mesa Boogie Mark IV
I sent back the JP2C and the Mark VII to Sweetwater in favor of the Mark IV
So to refresh between those 2 rigs I can go up against the Friedmans, Soldano, ENGL and other boogies that I have collected over the years
AxeFx3 modeling is not my freind but I keep it around for the pretty lights but honestly the FX and routing earn it a place in the rack
Not 1 model sounds authentic compared to the real amps that I own, and can directly compare
That's a TASTY collection of gear!
Different but both good at its own thing...owned both and i prefer the HJS for lead, more round more singing but for rythm guitar the regular one is just more raw more agressive ...which makes sense as Joe plays lead 90% of the time and it's a signature amp...he still uses it to this day so it clearly works for that kind of job !
Ok, let's try...A is the regular one and B is Satch version...yeah that's my guess.
Oh creepy...I was just listening to Joe talk about this amp on an old episode of "no guitar is safe" podcast!
Hi very good sound type grunge my favorite.
Amp A seems like the Satch, it has a broader midrange that makes it push through better for the solo. It's a tough choice, I think I prefer B still for that cutting, aggressive edge, but they both sound great.
Correct!
@leontodd
So which one was which? I couldn’t see any front plate icons that said. I do know that for my ears the one on bottom sounded much more pleasing and produced all the tones I like. Contrary to that, the one on top sounded very “bity”. It was just a harsher tone overall.
JS is the bottom one
@@LeonTodd well, that makes sense then. Whatever they modded for Joe makes a ton of difference, in a good way, to my ears.
What popular JVM410 mod that make sound close to JS version?
Love the Alice In Chains riff 🤘🏻
standard has a fizzy sound. JS is my preference.
The one on top in the video. Generally.
One more question if it’s cool?
Has using either of these amps in person changed how you approach dialling them in on Fractal units?
Yeah definitely. The fractal stuff is pretty accurate so once I figured out how I like these I put those settings in the fractal and was immediately loving it
@@LeonTodd just what I was hoping to hear!
Yes!
All the yes.... I need to jam now 😅
It's like this: if I could play like either you or Joe, I might worry about the distinction. But I'll take either one. Or both.
Less fuzz on bottom amp!
The JS overall sounds warmer and fuller, and doesn't seem to have issues with gain; the stock JVM had arguably TOO much gain on the high-gain channels and too little gain in Crunch mode. That said, the original's stiffness, works in its favor for what it was meant to be: a modern hard rock/metal amp with that signature high midrange that Marshalls are known for.
I had both of these amps for awhile..I just never bonded with the JVM..it was way too compressed..The Satch version has the clean channel of the 6100,and the Crunch channel of the AFD…I preferred the sound of the Satch version,but In my opinion,the 6100 30th anniversary Marshall sounds better than either of the JVM’s…Don’t get me wrong,the JVM’s are great amps….just not for me..
Amp B is the 410HJS
410HJS takes pedal better and has better fx loop. Both amps are Beasts
I prefer the regular JVM for what I play.
The 410 is on my 'list' as its a history of Marshall in one box.
Yeah I really want one now!
@@LeonTodd Yep. Its the modern (ish) equivalent of an old JMP-1 rack rig.... on steroids.
@@AnthonyBullock1968 there's a 205h listed locally that is tempting me atm. Great comparison with the jmp1!
My local shop had a used 410 for £699. It was soooooooooo tempting.
@@LeonTodd One note on the 205 and 210, it does not use the 410's OD1 section. It uses the 410's OD2 section for it's three OD modes.
One amp's resonance and presence was set significantly higher and had more bass and high end? - Wow.
I'll take a half dozen of each please,...TO GO!
I haven't even tried to work out which ones which... but I prefer the top one and I'm going to guess that's the Marshall JVM and the bottom one is the Satriani one
Satch has the gold piping... Standard has white 😊
Was hoping you would make this video, thanks! My JVM fx loop has an ungodly amount of noise and I need 2 gates, 1 in front and 1 behind to make it playable and quiet. Not sure if this is the norm or if mine is faulty and can't get a straight answer out of any other JVM owner online. Anyone?
@@Gearslayer131 The standard JVM 410h? And you definitely tried it with pedals in the fx loop and not over the top noisy?
@@Gearslayer131 Yeah I was thinking that also... but I've come across many comments about the JVM being way too noisy... but they never specify if it's in the fx loop or not because my JVM is pretty quiet when I'm not running pedals in the fx loop. Hey thanks for the info, guess I'll swap out that tube and see how it goes.
@@Gearslayer131 Tried replacing all the 12ax7/ecc83 tubes... no luck mate. Back to the drawing board :D
@@Gearslayer131 I didn't clean it but I have the same issue with both fx loops so obviously it's something else internally... I'll get it serviced at some point this year but was worth a try 😁
I prefer the regular version over the Satch signature...
Now I kinda wanna hear JVM vs Peavey JSX.
Two totally different beasts there. the JSX shines on its clean channel which is what Joe used 90% of the time on that amp. He also made use of the loop as a boost since it's a not very well known feature of the amp when not running any effects in it.
Its great to compare but its nearly impossible to get a JS model
I think A is Satch version , B is standard , the mids are different
Alright, imma just say it. I prefer the regular JVM 410H. Much more bright gritty grinding bite. Sounds so raw.
A little less smooth and more in your face hey
To me the difference sounds like comparing 6L6 to EL34's the Joe sounds more mid focused like EL34 type.
I'm very close from getting a JVM, its not a classic Marshall but it has that "outdated" sound of 2000's rock. Sorta how rock bands like the Pixies and RATM used the 2210 instead of the 2203 which everyone says is the "better" amp, you know? Not as lush and organic but thats why its got more character.
The Satch arguably is the "better" classic Marshall, slightly built better even with the noise gate and improved MIDI and all. But I'd probably get a 2203 since HJS prices are bonkers.
it certainly has room for character!
Top amp is which one?
I’ve heard these are biased cold stock and it’s worth changing that
I would guess it is to increase the life of the lower-quality tubes available.
I prefer the original 410, as it has more 'texture' and sounds more like a Marshall to me. I own two 410s, both the non-satch versions, and have them both still. The first one Ive owned for over a year, and it sound really good, but if I lost it, I wouldnt replace it. I got a chance to buy another at a good price, knowing that all high gain amps vary in tone from amp to amp, with some amps varying a lot. The newer one I just got is amazing. I own over 12 different high gain heads, and now this JVM410 is one of my favorites of all my heads, while I would never say that before with the first one that I owned.
It's a matter of taste but for my ears the original Sounds better.
I think marshall amp not for me .BUT only one: JVM410H perfect Rock -Metal 1970 sound to forever
First was the VM, then the DSL50 now the JVM! Leon... You must stop this madness!!! Have you ever thought of turning your channel into a cooking channel or something?? This is too much!!!
Secondly, that solo at the end is pure evil!!! I love it!
Finally, it sounds like the amp A is a bit thicker in the mids and B has a bit more treble frequencies coming out so I say A Satriani and B standard. Then again, I may be wrong! What do I know?? I'm so confused!!! Please stop making these amazing videos about great amps please, please... 😢😢😢
@Leon Todd don't you dare to compare these two to the DSL50 and the vintage modern or I'm calling the police!!!
Yeah a cooking channel is the long term goal :p Everything fried in bacon grease for that Marshall style sizzle!
@@LeonTodd you are a nasty human being! Stop it! It's too good!!!!
Chains!
Brutality belongs to the OG 💯
410hjs all day.. Sonically and building quality.. Anyway jvm is a great great amp for the price but that plastic input jack is horrible..
Original JVM easily. It seems like the Satch version is missing something to me.
I also hate that “clean” channel on the Satch.
To me the JVM is a rough diamond and the JS is a cut diamond...
Which is which? Vote for bottom head
Top = Regular
Bottom = Satch
They both sound sublime, but sadly I think the takeover is all about the Marshall name.
I prefer amp A
I have both amplifier Joe's is alot better. His amplifier is what the JVM Should of been.. The regular JVM's are dry and sterile.. I did the negative feedback mods The plexi mod, Mercury magnets output and input Transformers ,Mercury magnet choke.. One wire cascade, Anti stiffness mode.. And it still doesn't sound as good as Joe Satriani Model..
You fucked it up is what you did. Be honest. 😂
Satriani version sounds like a classic Marshall on steroids. Standard JVM is a more 'modern' sounding Marshall.
Has a 210h for a week..it was trash...great marshalls are all 40+ years old. The new stuff is all fuzzy buzzy...sound like bad distortion pedals...
WtF ?!? How many more controllers can an amplifier have ? Nobody can see through that. I praise my Mesa Mark III with 8 controls for 3 channels. 🤣🤣🤣
JVM - "HOLD MY BEER!"
@@LeonTodd 🤣🤣🤣
No comparisson really the JS is not as compressed and has more natural tones...insdie these amps aren't even slightly close...apples and oranges really and Santiago stated this is an improved totally re-worked JVM 410....my friend had the standard and as soon as he played the JS he traded it in on it......the standard has issues...the gains are only useable if you do not go past a certain point....the Metal guys do not care about a clean channel so therefore do not care much about tone..there is more to tone than cranking everything to the right and calling it tone....no good clean channel = useless amplifier period.
Jubilee beat all
Prefer the original, for the reverb and the rawness