The Rise of the Stadium District
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
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Resources:
A. This video is based on general insights from: www.athleticbusiness.com/stad... and www.bdcnetwork.com/sports-tea...
B. www.milwaukeemag.com/big-bucks/
C. www.forbes.com/sites/barrymbl...
D. la.curbed.com/2016/5/18/11697...
E. www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/re...
F. fox6now.com/2015/01/27/govern...
G. deadspin.com/the-raiders-robb...
H. www.bdcnetwork.com/sports-tea...
I. news.stlpublicradio.org/post/...
J. www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2...
Produced by Dave Amos in sunny Sacramento, California.
Edited by Eric Schneider in cloudy Cleveland, Ohio.
First they wanted stadiums. Now they want the whole neighborhood.
Fewr and fewer masters.
But it'll be good for the local economy.
All those poor people will have to go elsewhere.
Better than parking lots tho
"it's free market" is the *worse* argument for receiving taxpayer money, because a free market should have 0 gov't money in it.
Yeah, you can't make a free market argument for it, the argument must be framed as an exceptional circumstance justifying the use of taxpayer money. You also can't make a direct free market argument for giving money to businesses owner by women or ethnic minorities as old mate suggests for some reason.
This makes my blood boil
JoaoG R worst? or even worse?
@@Lachlan100 if women & minorities donate their money freely or use it to buy the team's merchandises, it's the Free Market working
yeah... how is that the free market
It’s honestly a big pet peeve of mine when a stadium is essentially an island in a sea of parking
I hate how American sports teams will build up a big fan base in a city and the just leave because they didn’t get their way financially. I’d hate to be a local fan paying lots of money for games and then they just move halfway across the country.
That's one more reason why I like college sports better
That´s beacause american sport is made by big investors to make money. It is not about competition and local founded clubs. Moving a team away to another city is unthinkable in German sports here. Also the club members always have 51% share, so that investors cannot ruin the club and it´s taditions.
@@Hunters61 modern slavery is great
They tried to do this to the columbus crew a couple years ago. The fact that the league even attempted to do this has led me to boycott the league
Mangobonbon I was thinking about what would happen if let’s say, Dortmund decided to move. Like can you imagine the scenes? I just don’t get how so many Americans can be okay with their team abandoning them.
I live about 5 minutes from FedEx Field and all of the “incentives” the area got for building a stadium right in the middle of their neighborhood are all but dead. No one even shows up to the games because of how bad the football team is. Great use of money 10/10
It's interesting to see the contrast between FedEx Field and the areas around Nationals Park and Capital One Arena. I would say the Gallery Place renewal has been a huge success. The Navy Yard, TBD.
The Redskins are basically a team without a host. Dan Snyder is the reason the Redskins are not profitable. Plus, FedEx Field is in the the middle of east bumfuck no man's land. When their previous owner was in possession, he should have rebuilt RFK Stadium or built a new one on that lot. Such a waste in the past 20 years.
Do you mean 5 minutes by foot? 🍄
Raljon MD ?
@@marshallr4797 Raljon was the name of the previous owner Jack Kent Cooke's two children. It's really just Landover
"Sacramento California, it's known for being the capital of the state and well, that's about it"
someone ain't noided
Death Grips should work on their branding for sure
San Francisco or Los Angeles should be the capital
Eli Wesley Capitols are usually historic cities in the state, not the most pretty. Sactown has tons of history behind it
@@AndrewL209 Sactown?
tea is good Sactown is Sacramento’s nickname
Here in London, when they overhauled Stratford to build the olympic park, they put Westfield shopping centre next to it, one of the biggest shopping centres in Europe. It's pretty cool. Completely transformed that area of London.
It's a nice ass mall!! I went to Bush Theatre nearby (soooo good!) and that whole area is super lively
Yet the West Ham fans HATE it.
@@jaypea99 Right, now West Ham plays in a 3/4 empty stadium, miles away from the pitch, that has robbed the club of any chance of developing a culture in the new grounds.
Westfield Stratford is the best shopping mall in whole Europe not the least Westfield London is at the same level... and the Olympic park is very nice during spring summer time a really nice lively area to not miss
Not to mention Wembley on the other side of London!
The stadium district in Vancouver is kind of unique. Our football/soccer stadium(BC Place was built & is owned by the provincial government) and our hockey arena(Rogers Arena) was entirely paid for by the Canucks owners. The land that both of these stadiums sit on was used for Expo 86 and before then that part of Vancouver was a rail yard. Neither stadium has a large parking lot due to the fact that both stadiums are a short walk away from the Skytrain.
Vancouver is an interesting case. Rogers Arena opened in the mid-90's (and BC Place in 1983 - the two are basically beside each other), before the whole arena district concept took off. Vancouver does not have a major highway connected to downtown, so we've always been more of a public transit focussed city than other big cities.
They're also completely redeveloping the region surrounding it to be an entertainment district!
Our city was always the outlier from doing things from the typical North American city. The old Pacific Coliseum Arena use to be in East Van in the suburbs which is still great for WHL games, concerts, smaller events etc. There's only so much undeveloped land you can build since everything is crammed into our landlocked area so in retrospect, the football and hockey stadium within walking distance to downtown and connection to skytrain was the only option unless it was built further east when the surrounding cities such as Burnaby and Surrey weren't as big as it is now.
Ever been to the Abbotsford Centre to watch the former Abbotsford Heat or a concert? It sucked. Stupidly long drive on the highway just to go to a concert and back home. At least for Canucks/Whitecaps/Lions games, you can make a whole day/evening event out of which which benefits all local businesses but your pocketbook.
And now they are building condos all around the boring Rogers Arena.
Vancouver's downtown stadiums are unique as the area has grown organically around them without parking lots/parkades and serviced by rapid transit. Lots of residential/commercial/retail surrounding them and easily serviced by taxi as the area is densely populated.
I'm struggling to understand how come a city government paying for a private owned stadium is a thing? As far as I know almost everywhere in EU you Either build your own stadium with your oown money or strike a deal with the city to build a stadium and then pay a rent for it. This video literally makes no sense to me.
The sports market here in the US and Canada is very aggressive and owners know it. If a team wants or needs a new stadium they force that community to pay for it or they will move to another city because there are only so many teams in the 5 major sports leagues in the US and plenty of cities ready to pay for a stadium to bring in a team. Its gross and more people should really care about it but its a super touchy subject try telling someone who has been following a team for a life time the team is moving to save money they wont really care how much it costs they will ask the local government do anything to stop them from leaving.
Sports are more competitive and more lucrative in the United States
The last thing a city politician wants is to have a major sports team leave on their watch.
YEE HAWW MERICA
It also has benefits of attracting mass amount of tourists to watch the games, staying in hotels, shopping in nearby shops, and paying tax in that city/county's jurisdiction. The Gov backs on the fact that investing in this will bring more traffic and attention to the city. With over 10 cities having a population of 1million+ people, if cities dont provide any assistance, they will move to a city that does
It’s interesting that you didn’t mention Oracle Park in SF. I feel like that is the poster child for a successful privately financed stadium
and the new (semi)adjacent Chase Center. Both privately financed and turned a wasteland into thriving neighborhoods of China Basin and Mission Bay.
Go Giants! 🤘☝️✊
I agree. Though CityBeautiful denigrated the idea of the City paying for infrastructure improvements around new stadiums, I think it really depends on the area and what improvements were needed. When PacBell/SBC/AT&T/Oracle Park was built, San Francisco paid for the infrastructure improvements around the stadium. This was about $28 million on the city tab which included new sidewalks, repaved roads, new sewer/water lines, upgraded power facilities, etc. The area was an old warehouse district that was ripe for redevelopment so none of the infrastructure had been upgraded for 50-100 years, so they were all near the end of their useful life. They had to be upgraded anyway, so the City picked up the tab on this as a bargaining chip. Yet, some people STILL complained about using City funds for anything related to the stadium. I think the City spending $28 million instead of $360 million for the ballpark is fair deal.
The Chase Center had the same type of deal - City will pay for infrastructure and the sports team pays for the arena. I estimate the City spent around $50 million for the infrastructure upgrades which included upgrading the traffic controls around the arena, new sewer and water lines, upgrading the roads and parks, and a new $33 million expanded Muni platform. I think the City spending $50 million instead of $1.4 BILLION for the arena is a pretty darn good deal. Of course, there will always be naysayers, but, hey...
it's because they want to drive a "stadiums bad" narrative
Yes if you can get redevelopment down to low 10s of millions it makes a lot more sense. How many are actually following that relatively low tax payer spending model? This is the first I've heard of being that low.
Checking on wikipedia and they cite 80 million in infrastructure upgrades and 10 million in tax abatements. Still on the cheap end though. It was the first MLB park since Dodger stadium in the 60s to be with privately funded construction.
The flip side is that deal being repeated wasn't on the table or wasn't good enough for the Santa Clara 49ers.
LA: we dont have enough money to feed and house homeless people...sorry
Also LA: only $5 billion for a football stadium? YES WE CAN AFFORD THAT!
I think the LA Stadium is mostly privately funded, but yeah -- that's the biggest problem with the developments. Improve infrastructure and schools before helping out billionaires.
I think it's down to city leaders wanting to point to something impressive like a stadium and say "Look, I made that happen!"
Helping the homeless doesn't 'look' impressive, like how they would rather build a new bridge than fill in potholes on a side street, the bigger and louder the better
From a humanitarian point of view absolutely, you're spot on however economics can't be ignored. Feeding homeless can be viewed as a drain on precious funds. You can't feed em once and send em on their way. You build a stadium, sure there's an initial cost up front however you have the upside of increased tax revenue forever. I can almost guarantee you these billionaires are pitching the city that this will pay for itself and more. With increased taxes now you can feed the homeless which is probably in their pitch too.
LA one is completely privately funded but most others yeah terrible idea.
SoFi Stadium is in Inglewood which is a separately incorporated city government. IIRC the City of LA turned the NFL down.
The OG urban stadium that is still standing and used 45 years later? The Louisiana Superdome. It's for football, parties, concerts, trade shows, events, etc. And completely walkable to housing, businesses, garages, bars, restaurants, and the French Quarter. It's no wonder New Orleans has hosted the second most number of Super Bowls. Pre-Katrina, the Saints owner wanted a new stadium and was threatening to move to San Antonio. After Katrina, the state did a lot of major renovations (Katrina repair plus some), and negotiated long term deal to keep the team in the city. Everyone wants what New Orleans has, which is why Houston built both the new baseball stadium and basketball arena in downtown where other walkable businesses can invest (adjacent to the convention center). It's about the synergies of colocating. More expensive to start, but that's what property tax relief is for.
Why do we abandon and build new? Just renovate more often. The Superdome had paid for itself many times over. In fact the most recent renovation finally cost as much as the construction in the 70's. But hundreds of millions in renovation is cheaper and easier than spending billions on new construction and site work.
Renovation is cheaper but that can be seen by some as a bad thing. It means less construction "jobs" for businesses and unions. New stadiums seem to always get the look of a national event like final four or super bowl. Maybe if leagues weren't so hesitant to award a 5+ year old stadium a marquee event, that would reduce the pressure.
While I can't speak for all cases, there are some times when there are external pressures that contribute to a stadium closing rather than renovating. Case in point: The Hoosier Dome (later RCA Dome) in Indianapolis. One internal factor was that the stadium wasn't considered a particularly good one by the standards of the time, and so there was some pressure to replace it with a better stadium as renovating it might not have been enough. (If the stadium hadn't already gone, the collapse of the Metrodome roof later on might have put more pressure for a new stadium.) Further, Indianapolis wanted to host a Super Bowl, and couldn't because the RCA Dome didn't have enough seating capacity to do so.
But there was one external factor that also contributed: The Indiana Convention Center, which extended into a section of the RCA Dome, needed to expand because it was hosting bigger and bigger events, especially the major gaming convention Gen Con. And the only convenient space for it to expand into was where the RCA Dome already was. So, there were a number of groups who had problems that could be solved by a new stadium, and in one case by a new stadium in a (slightly) different location. The end result? Lucas Oil Stadium was built a block and a half south of the RCA Dome, which was demolished when Lucas Oil Stadium was finished. The Convention Center got the land it needed to expand (which it did, very quickly), and that's more or less how things stand over 12 years later.
@@MarsJenkar At least they were responsible in reusing what they could . It was an overall win ,and Lucas oil is actually a great looking stadium compared to many being built today.
The parking lots around the LA Dodgers stadium take up more space than entire neighborhoods. They should be converted into apartments.
. . . apartments for whom?
@@allantow6371 Doesn't matter at this point...
Right now they are being used as parking for the excess rental cars that aren’t being used due to Coronavirus. Same thing with the parking lot at angel stadium in Anaheim.
It should but unfortunately the dodgers don’t own their parking lot. Their previous owner does and he’s a greedy asshole who try to use the team revenue for his divorce
Those parking lots should be converted into a race track.
There are better things for cities to invest in than stadiums.
Like masks and equipments for hospitals.
Sports that turnover many millions of dollars each year can finance the construction themselves. If you want to spend tax money on projects, you can finance sports and events that have difficulty in financing it themself.
Like public transportation
They should invest more in affordable housing and not of stupid sports teams
Like hospitals.
We built two huge stadiums in the heart of our city before it was the cool thing to do. You can’t beat the May Day Stadium
Kim Jong-un Beautiful stadium on the Taedong river, close to the TV tower, Kim Il Sung Mausoleum, and the Arc of Triumph.
Dear leader doesn't have to worry about offending people to build a stadium.
You catfished San Diegans by using Petco Park in the thumb nail and not mentioning it once! Love all your videos, thank you.
As a Chicagoan I love having all the stadiums in the actual city, as for using public money for them, I don’t really think these billionaires need taxpayer money. I don’t like subsidizing rich people. I get it’s tough if they threaten to leave but it’s still probably better than bending the knee to the wealthy
I agree. I'm also glad the Chicago Fire is moving back to Chicago in Soldier Field.
@@narata1541 Great move for the Fire. Bridgeport is pretty hard to get too anyways. Maybe they will get more fans now. FC Dallas I mean FC Frisco should follow suit.
JD Redwine the building of the US Soccer Hall of Fame in Frisco sealed the fate for FC Dallas. They’ll be in Frisco for a longgg time.
What about the United center
*laughs in toronto*
I live in Adelaide, Australia where we had a similar problem. Our big football stadium was 10km from the CBD and the commute home was absolute hell. So we redeveloped a smaller stadium that existed in our city's entertainment precinct and built a footbridge over a river that separates the venue from the CBD. Adelaide Oval now gets used all year round for sports and concerts.
I highly recommend you visit if you're ever in Australia!
Seattle is getting a hockey (NHL) team soon. There is an investment group that is renovating the stadium that the Seattle Supersonics (NBA) used to play in. It is in an urban location with fairly limited parking nearby. The investment group is also trying to attract an NBA team back to the city to recreate the Supersonics, so they are renovating the stadium in a way to accommodates both sports.
So this was a fairly unique situation and I'd say overall good. We already had this stadium from the 1962 World's Fair (keyarena), which is the same fair that the Space Needle was built for. As far as I know there is no city money going to this, although I do know the city is planning on building a light-rail station nearby in the coming decade. That being said, the light-rail station will serve an area that has many other attractions beyond just the stadium.
DC’s stadiums have really revitalized Half Street Area. It also got a new MLS stadium built.
Take a page out of Baltimore's book on how to deal with stadium complexes. Camden Yards became the forefront of revitalizing an old rail yard and warehouse district with ease of access to light rail; I-95; and the Inner Harbor. M&T Bank Stadium being built 4 years later created a new stadium complex that extends as far as the nearby Casino & Greyhound Terminal while neighborhoods surrounding the stadiums were never affected.
I think if we done it once before, we could do it again if our Howard Street project ever get green lit to include a new arena (current arena built in 1961); a newer BIGGER convention center and revitalization of Lexington Market within the "dilapidated" west downtown district.
The Lexington Market renovation is supposedly good, though I haven't been yet. And RoFo Arena is getting rebuilt. That being said, I'd love to see more light rail or a renewed Red Line. Right now downtown Baltimore has a huge chance to become as beloved as Fed, Fells, and Canton. But we need to make it easier to get into the city without driving. A Baltimore with the mass transit of DC would be a dream.
100% this. I'm from the region but moved north a while ago. I love that I can still get to the stadium without driving if I want to. The light rail having easy access and the walkable blocks around the stadium make it feel very inviting and nice to be around.
The quality of these videos keeps getting better and better - I'm really glad I stumbled across this channel a few months ago.
I like the idea of stadiums and building mixed zones around them, but the goverment should absolutely not pay for anything other than maybe the apartments and some of the infrastructure.
That's a nice hard-line stance to take, but unfortunately nothing would get done.
The only way to fix this problem is a new law from the Federal government putting a cap on how much money cities can pay for stadiums
Or citizens can just be better-informed and not vote in Corporate Socialists.
@@jnyerere well we love sports and this past month without them has been the longest month of my life
As an Orioles fan, I’m a little shocked you neglected to mention Camden Yards. It is the OG of ballparks done in a classic style and located in the city’s central business district
Ha, I live in the DC area and don’t know anyone who has been to PGC for a football game. Meanwhile, even though my friends and I aren’t really sports fans, we’ve all been to the Nats stadium at least once-because it’s easy to get to. I wish the Waterfront/SW area of DC hadn’t been completely decimated in the 60’s though; we used to have a vibrant African-American and Jewish community there before it was razed, and I would’ve much preferred that to the movie studio setting of the current area.
It’s crazy how much the Deer district has changed Milwaukee and made game day atmosphere so much better. Used to be kinda plain, now it’s starting to get Packer vibes.
Wisconsin Sports Fan It’s almost like... it was a good investment? Hmmmm
Titletown was such a huge success, it's just a no-brainer. Of course, the parasite who owns the Brewers is 100% dead opposed to such levels of development and Miller Park will remain an island surrounded by more parking than you see at Magic Kingdom.
I live in St. Louis! And Ballpark Village is a great place to hang out before during and after the game.
As someone from the UK when you said the team just moved location I was shocked, I'm still struggling to process it. I guess that's why US teams have weird names that don't really respond to a geographical location.
To top that off, many teams are not even located in the cities they lie about being in. For instance, the so called "New York Giants" football team plays in a city called East Rutherford, which is not even in New York State, let alone being in New York itself.
Like which teams? When teams move they always change their names to match the new location.
The Giants (and Jets) are still within the NYC Metropolitan area.
@@muhilan8540 Los Angeles Lakers. They started got that name when they were playing in Minneapolis, a city actually noted for its many lakes. In Minnesota, the "Land of 10,000 Lakes".
That's true. There's no better example of this than the Utah Jazz :)
An odd reverse of this trend is the Atlanta Braves, leaving their urban home at Turner Field for their new home way out in the suburbs.
@Labrador 67 Turner Field wasn't torn down, it was sold to Georgia State and it's their football stadium now.
SunTrust Park is a bit of both. Yes, it was built near suburbs, but instead of only paving a parking lot around the stadium, developers created The Battery district.
@Labrador 67 I'm aware of that, but most people probably aren't and only know the stadium as SunTrust Park.
@Labrador 67 that's just not true, it's still being used
The Braves and Rangers are poster child's for greedy owners. Both relatively new and modern stadiums that still wasn't good enough for them.
Sacramento voters initially voted against the public funding for the arena so, city leaders figured a way to work around our decision.
It also happened in San Diego with Petco Park. It totally revitalized the Gaslamp district.
Hey Dave!
I'm Dom DeSound, a House Music DJ here in Bristol TN/VA.
I watch your videos ALL the time, because I too can go all out with city management/planning - all thanks to Simcity 4 growing up and Cities: Skylines.
I have an interesting challenge for you! (and I hope others can agree too 😉 )
Watching this video reminded me heavily of my hometown, Bristol - a bordertown on the Virginia and Tennessee state lines. We have a stadium of sorts... and most people may or may not know that we have a NASCAR stadium 🏁 . Watching your video gave me very interesting ideas on what to do for our NASCAR stadium, for Bristol to grow. Bristol has some interesting projects heading her way, such as a Hard Rock Cafe & Casino, a new life for Downtown Bristol with new bars and shops, and a new era of music. Interesting fact, Bristol is known as the birthplace of Country Music, but welcomes all!
I think it'd be an interesting challenge for you to do a video on NASCAR stadiums and how they've affected cities throughout time. 🏙️
I didn't see much surface public transit in any of those new Stadium projects :/
In most US cities, connecting the stadium to public transit (by which I'm sure you only mean rail) wouldn't do much good because very few of them have transit networks that go anywhere or have any big plans for expansion. It would be a lot of money to connect people to one or two places. They'd do it if the project is near the line, but aren't going to lay down a couple billion to connect it if the existing light rail is on the other side of town. It makes a lot more sense in a context like that, to just have some efficient roads and run buses which can get anywhere they need to. In a city that does have a significant transit network, they would ensure that connectivity to the arena is excellent. In Portland for example, the Rose Quarter gets a stop from the Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow MAX light rail lines, as well as the Streetcar and several bus lines. Their transit network is large (and *expensive*) so they want to make damn sure it goes to big points of interest like that.
Chris Gurney In Milwaukee the new Hop streetcar is supposed to cut right through the plaza I’m front of Fiserv Forum. I’m actually pretty excited for it to as it will add another dynamic to the Deer District.
The Sacramento railyards mentioned here also has an extension that goes right back to downtown but the light rail system we have doesn’t get much praise from anyone I know. Been on it about 3-4 times and just Uber now. Quicker, easier and no worries about running into screaming people with mental illness.
Mr Home Loans for a sprawling city like sac, light rail is actually pretty extensive. I’m biased tho cause I live right by a station
That's because they go underground
1:37 500Sq Ft Of retail space! That's smaller than a NYC studio apartment!
cfellaris maybe he meant 500,000?
as a nyer no it isnt for some studios lol
Very well done. Stumbled upon your channel and enjoying it.
Baltimore was first with the urban stadium renewal with Camden Yards, but you should take a look at District Detroit. There's been a lot of renewal around Comerica Park and Ford Field, and with Little Caesars Arena, all Detroit's teams play within a kilometre of each other.
District Detroit has brought development in, but news reports last year questioned the lack of promised housing.
another great video. I particularly love your use of lousy B roll footage! Thanks.
0:35 That is probably the ugliest thing I have seen today...
IKR that UGLY face!!😂🤣
Why does Las Vegas need a sports stadium? It already has lots of visitors for its casinos.
Good question.
For sports..... You can't play football in a casino.
The Golden Knights and Raiders exist
Sports Betting.
@@MagnesiumPC They do that right now
Just catching up on this. I live in Davis, CA, have friends in Sacramento, and we call DOCO "Taxpayer Mall". The arena has resulted in pretty busy traffic to the imeadiately adjacent businesses, but done zero for the entire surrounding part of Downtown Sacramento. As the same time, Midtown, a very inviting and walkable, and very large, section of town about a mile away, is really thriving. I've love to see an updated video from you about your views of how all of central Sacramento has evolved since you released this one. Thanks!
I like these districts. I was a kid when they developed Lo-Do in Denver for the Colorado Rockies when they became an expansion team. It really helped our city grow. However our other stadiums have areas that aren't really part of a development plan.
I was in Minneapolis this last weekend. And they BEAUTIFULLY developed the target field area. The whole sports center is amazing and the baseball and basketball stadiums are so close we accidentally tried to get our tickets scanned at the basketball/hockey stadium. But target field was just a couple of blocks away and the whole experience was beautiful.
Great video as always, thanks for educating me (us) on this subject! :)
Living in Melbourne I can tell you having a whole area close to the city where major sporting events are being held is great . The ease of getting to these events are great.
Thank you so much for keeping up the good work! Really helping out to pass the indoors time :)
Love your videos so much. Recently I’ve been searching on UA-cam about why there is downtown and uptown, but I can’t find any video about this topic. When I think about this kind of topic, I always think about you. Can you make a video about it?
I was living in Malaysia for decades and there is very obvious downtown and uptown areas. But now I’m living in Taiwan, and reminds me of life in China, the residential and commercial areas are totally mixed together, I want to know more about it, and I believe there are many of your audiences are from all around the world. Anyway, thank you very much for the great channel and great videos.
I have been to a stadium 3 times 37 years.
You should go more they're fun
There's a proposed pseudo-stadium district in my city in Pittsburgh. They want to expand into the Hill district, a prominently black neighborhood that was regarded as another Harlem in the early 1900's. There is currently a hockey stadium that replaced the civic arena that destroyed most of the Hill district in the 1950s. BIG architects originally had a very interesting plan, which you can google to find the proposal for still, that links the city with the hill district again. I believe they ended up not winning the bid, it sat dormant for a while, then another developer I believe is building some sort of tower and complex. Also interesting that the Hill district and downtown is completely severed by a large series of interchanges and random highways that awkward lead to and away from town. They just started working on it but they plan to 'cap' the highway and cover it entirely by a large green space that connects downtown Pittsburgh with the hill district once again.
Toronto's SkyDome, now Rogers Centre was built on underused railway lands in the downtown in the late 80's. That plan did include a mix of office and condos that didn't get built until the late 90's. However, by then it was only condos A LOT of them. One of the plans for this domed stadium was in the Downsivew area, in the suburban north end of the city.
I’m glad you mentioned milwaukee right off the bat. The stadium district there has been off to great start. The pubs and restaurants by the forum are a lot of fun and I’m glad the city prevented that district from falling into some of the same holes they’ve let other parts of the city fall into
I love stadiums and have been following them since I was a young lad. Thank you for making this video.
"This is the ultimate free market, fiscally conservative approach going forward"
I thought fiscal conservatives want lower taxes and government spending
Deer District in MKE has a lot of opportunity. Milwaukee has a lot of vacant buildings downtown that need filling and the area around the stadium is already very bar heavy so it can only improve. Plus this city LOVES their major league teams. It's a win-win
I like your videos and learn a lot from most of them. This one is a bit of a mess. And really now, if there’s a good side of the complex you open with, you never show it. But, no one is perfect. You posted a reading list in an earlier video, from which I’ve hunted down two books, “Crabgrass Frontier” being the one I’m halfway through. Wow, it should be three times as thick with all the information it has! Is that reading list hanging out anywhere here?
could you do a video on why Houston is one of the biggest cities in the US population wise but is so spread out over such a large area?
Dylan Lance it only feels spread out if you live outside the loop in the suburbs
The city of Houston has the legal ability to annex land and now it includes 5 counties. Cities like Pittsburgh PA are not able to annex land so the city has confined boundaries and cannot receive the tax benefits of the numerous incorporated suburbs.
Wrigley and Fenway are the two examples I can think of that do a good job integrating with the local neighborhood. Wish there were more stadia like them in the US.
They're both over a hundred years old, too.
Those stadiums were not built to revitalize anything tho. They were placed where they are in a time when people still largely walked and that was likely the edge of the respective cities
Rickets in wrigleyville deserves its own spotlight and deep dive. Great work brother
Really interesting video as per usual! I think it could also be interesting to investigate the history of stadiums and colosseums of the past and how ideas in ancient stadium design continue to perpetuate today. In my city, Calgary, a new stadium district is being developed around the same concepts that you discuss in this video, i haven't ever really thought about it in this way but it's very cool to see how stadiums and the typical scope of those projects have changed and evolved over time.
I live in milwaukee, just a few blocks away from Fiserv Forum, and I can say that the taxpayer spent on it has had more than just economic benefits. Milwaukee used to have a very very bad segregation issue, and the fiserv has definitely helped bridge that. Seeing the community this year was insane, and it looks like it could be creating a lot more interaction between the lower income and higher income portions/populations of the city.
Edit: the arena was built on the land that a demolished freeway used to take up, with that freeway serving the main segregator of the city. The fact that the arena was built on the land and payed for its redevelopment saved the city a decent amount, and the dear district couldn’t be in a better place for trying to desegregate the city.
Reminds me of the West Side Stadium NYC almost built to redevelop the Hudson Yards area. It was part of NYC’s bid for the 2012 Olympics and would’ve been the main stadium for the games. But due to several issues like the close proximity to MSG, traffic congestion, the high price to build it, and resource drain the plan was cancelled. They switched to Citi Field as the main stadium. Eventually NYC lost the Olympics to London. While the stadium wasn’t built, it did lead to an extension of the 7 train to the area and new real estate development
I like MetLife for my jets better, west side wouldn't have had tailgates!
Was about to submit my Thesis proposal on Stadiums as Urban Catalysts tonight and then you upload this 😂 Great timing 👌🏽 I’m gonna go revise it now
Here in Pittsburgh it has mostly worked out. Football and baseball a few blocks away from each other. A casino was added and now we have a nice strip of places to go. Office buildings have come up around it. Thus the key is multiple venues not next door to each other but almost as mall anchors around the edges. Said area was nothing in the early 1990s, now it has much to offer. Parking garages are now needed so tailgating is almost no more though as they go up.
In San Diego, this resulted in the recovery of the Downtown.
Denver too, there have been success stories that this video conveniently didn't mention to push a narrative.
There have been success stories but far too many failures. Stadiums on their own do not bring revitalization their needs to be special circumstances in play as well
Do people use transit lines to go to Petco Park?
@@TheCelticboy21 yes the tram is right next to it. When I visited San Diego, that’s how I got there.
St.Louis is an intrested study when it comes to sports. Especially since the Rams left and an MLS team wants to come in.
Voters initially denied the funding of MLS stadium, but the people REALLY wanted it here. So the Investors decided to pick up all of the slack and
fund it themselves, get approved by all. And Deliver and Stadium to an crumbled part of down on the same street with the other main stadiums.
Heck they lost a NFL team but who cares. The Loyal Teams is what cities are after.
Damn right I’ve been to ballpark village in St. Louis many times, it is 100% a great example of what can happen with stadium and new district companionship
I’m from Sacramento too and like your content. Keep up the good work.
While I like the new fiserv forum in my city, it's absolutely great for the general public and defiantly revitalizes the area, but the revitalization has very confined boundaries. Between the Fiserv Forum and the other side of I-43, it is one of the greatest wealth divides in the city with luxury apartments on one side, and a homeless shelter surrounded by dilapidated buildings on the other.
We kinda have the same thing in my city, but I've noticed a bleed over effect from the highly gentrified areas. The surrounding communities are also slowly improving due to the proximity of wealth.
I watched your Planning Ancient Rome video on Nebula it was great and the videos on curiosity stream are excellent I couldn't recommend it enough. totally worth the $12 for the year
Thanks for signing up. Truly.
I love the parks and rec reference, did you know that the homeless the guy in the slide from the pilot comes back in a suit in the series finale to ask them to fix a swing? Great show
I know this is coming almost a year and a half after release, but just found the channel and working through your vids (awesome content, btw!!!) An additional example, and maybe one of the earliest was T-Mobile Center (formerly Sprint Center) in Kansas City, MO, opening in 2007. The across-the-street Power and Light District is exactly the district you've described with the One/Two/Three Light luxury apartments which are heavily subsidized by the city. Only problem was a professional sports team never materialized. However, it has played host to tons of concerts, local events and college basketball tourneys for years, so it kinda lives up to its initial goals, just lacking that consistent big name attraction of a pro sports team. I've lived in the KC metro most of my life and it definitely improved our downtown and crossroads district just to the south. However, it has started some hard core gentrification in the area. I think it is a net positive for now, but we'll see what the future holds.
0:46 I was hoping you'd talk about Detroit; the new Little Caesars arena for NHL has really increased the land value on Woodward supplementing the Q-line streetcar and several construction projects like Hudson's Site. The Q-line is pretty useless apart from that tho lol
And 5:20, $150 sounds pretty accurate coming from Oakland
and it has drawn recent controversy for all of the shiny new drawings of a district surrounding the stadium, turning out to be nothing more than a bunch of parking lots.
Living in Arlington TX home of the new recently built Texas Rangers stadium and Texas Live it nice to see the development that it's coming very long overdue. I love Dallas's Victory district.
Here in Edmonton, Alberta the new Ice District has really done a lot to help a downtown that was dead in the mud to start to pick itself up again. Not to mention breaking up the skyline into something interesting to look at with the new towers.
Love this video! Maybe do one about stadiums thrust into a city's downtown where the city grows around it and isn't pre-fabricated. Like Oracle Park in San Francisco or Bush Park in St. Louis, and how Cincinnati's Great American Ballpark has failed. I love all of your videos so much!
Forgot to add Oriole Park at Camden Yards to this
Maybe the teams would not move away if the sport in the US was organized like Gerrmany´s. In Football/Soccer club members always own 51% of the shares, so no investor can play around with the club´s identity. And furthermore there is promotion and relegation. Every city can have clubs that compete and fans will be loyal to those. But it is nice to see that americans try to improve the city cores with new life and commercial activity. Anyway, greetings from Germany :)
Mangobonbon. I wish MLS would have promotion and relegation but with the league being so new the owners want the stability of never having to drop a division and loss money from a TV deal. I guarantee that every large club in Europe would love to get rid of pro/rel so they wouldn’t have to worry about dropping down and losing tv revenue but hopefully that never happens. Especially Germany, they have the best football in the world.
@@jaimevelazquez765 Yes. I think the big difference between these leagues is their history. European football started as an after work sport for normal peoples. The competition was the joy for players and viewers and promotion/relegation was the stakes at risk. MLS and other big US-sports are set up as entertainment shows, without risk of losing money. but if the MLS ever wants to be a top league, they need to add promotion and relegation or the teams will stay mediocre. The big talents go to the competetive leagues with the most clubs and fans.
Mangobonbon As an American, I would love to see pro/rel implemented eventually so we can actually begin to grow MLS like it should be growing. However, sporting culture over here is all profit driven for entertainment purposes like you were saying and to even get club owners to agree on a pro/rel system since it has never been used is going to be nearly impossible. As much as I would personally love to see MLS become more than just a well known mediocre retirement league for Europe’s elite to collect a final paycheck, I don’t think it’s ever going to be competitive with Europe or even Central/South America. It will always be a secondary sport in the States behind American football, basketball, baseball, and even ice hockey.
The US has the example of the Green Bay Packers, which owned by shareholders who primarily live in and around Green Bay. They can't leave their fans; their fans own them. Unfortunately, that's pretty much the only US example.
Promotion and relegation can also help to kill teams.
The thumbnail is Petco Park in San Diego, if anyone is curious
yeah, I’m kind of bummed he put it in the thumbnail but didn’t mention it, because I think it’s a very good example if this.
my boy coming through with them gr8 videos
The Navy Yard neighborhood in DC is also a good example. They built Nationals Park and later Audi Field for the Washington Nationals and DC United respectively. It’s full of new upscale apartments and restaurants.
Let me propose my own more noble version of the Hyde Amendment: I won't let my tax payer dollars be spent enriching the lives of rich people.
Raiders owner Mark Davis literally couldn’t afford to build a stadium without the local government. His entire net worth is from owning the team, so if he’d have to sell it for him to have enough money to build a stadium which would defeat the purpose.
I had signed up for CuriosityStream befor nebula i had so much problems that there customer service fixed after 20 min they ended up finding me with my bank info but I gave you my credit at that time I really enjoy your content keep doing what your doing
I just noticed that the background of your into and exit is Windsor-Detroit! I live in Windsor, how did I not see this sooner!
3:29 to drive home the point of how much room the parking takes up, the parking lots for FedEx field is used for Autocross on non game weekends/days. They also host car shows here and there in the open areas, sometimes both of them at the same time.
4:40 Scott Walker had a good economic argument. "If we lose the team the state will lost the tax revenue from the players. This is an invesment in that revenue." Can't remember the exact number but think it was like 12 year pay off on that metric alone (on just the State's contribution).
...From the players? That makes no sense.
@@NonsenseFabricator Income tax.
@@James-vj5hz You're not getting $200,000,000 in state income taxes from the Milwaukee Bucks over the stadium's useful life.
The Downtown East area in Minneapolis used to be a sea of parking lots. Since the new stadium went up, almost all those parking lots have been replaced with mixed use low-rise to mid-rise apartments and even a couple parks.
In Chicago, you showed a picture of it but we have a lot of entertainment centers like how McCormick Place is also on the same land grant as Soldier Field, the field museum, the shedd aquarium and a huge lake front park. It was built in the 60s. I think both of our ball parks are literally just placed in neighborhoods and a couple blocks of parking are added. None of our stadiums are in the suburbs except one which is the Allstate Arena
Love seeing two things I enjoy, sports and geography, come together! I think it’s worth considering that entertainment value doesn’t necessarily show up in cost analysis. It’s also worth noting the positive effects that the district has had on changing perceptions of Sacramento. Coming from near San Francisco, the city has far more appeal now thanks to the new district.
Every city is doing this except Richmond Virginia, it's a scam to them lmao
I came to this because I saw PETCO Park in San Diego in the thumbnail. The area around PETCO wasn't included in the stadium package but the East Village area in San Diego has changed dramatically since the construction of the stadium where warehouses changed to trendy bars, restaurants, and apartments and a lot of new buildings keep popping up there. Sad there was no mention of this after using it to lure me here! Still a pretty good video though!
@City Beautiful, wonderful episode as always. Is there any good urban design principles for keeping a city sanitary, eg for stopping viral disease?
I really like the questions you raise. New York City turned down Bloomberg's initiative to build a stadium in what has become Hudson Yards, mostly because it was corporate welfare. Instead, government money was used anyway to build a baseball stadium on Long Island. By reputation, Hudson Yards seems better integrated into New York than a stadium there would have been, but public money was thrown away anyway, just out in Queens county rather than in New York.
you do know queens county is part of nyc, and there was already plans to replace shea stadium before there was a olympic bid. why shouldnt the city show more loyalty to a team that stay more loyal to it then to a team that bounce on them years ago and now wants over a billion dollars for stadium for them. the city end up spending less then half on a baseball stadium while keeping its team.atleast with a baseball stadium you get more action with 81 games plus concerts and now soccer compare to just 8 games and just a few other events
The plan was to build a football stadium in Hudson yards, to try and lure one of the football teams in NJ back to NY not baseball stadium. The Mets wanted to stay in their spot in Queens and put their new baseball stadium there because of the numerous road and mass transit connections. Robert Moses got that location right.
The West Side Stadium was entirely dependant on if NYC hosted the 2012 Olympics. Once that was not happening, they built a baseball stadium for the Mets right next to their old Shea Stadium in Queens, which is still apart of NYC anyway brainlet
@@brenislanders citi field was going to be bult regardless for the mets everyone knew shea needed to be replace
Never knew we had such a shortage of Luxry Living spaces...guess i've been living under a rock
Patrick lookin ass
Great video per usual. Stay safe!
I really like your video's. Very interesting topics!
1:37 Just 500 square feet?
Never heard of stadium districts before... Does Arsenal in London count? XD
Wembley and Stratford more than Arsenal I'd say (even though I am a fellow arsenal fan)
Interesting video! Subscribed 👍🏾
Houston is trying to redevelop an old iconic stadium, the astrodome, into a mixed use area. You should look into that project, since it goes along with this trend, but using the old stadium itself as the mixed use region anchored by the new NRG stadium nearby
3:29 - washington football team has a name buddy.
REDSKINS
Funny thing is that is the name now 😂
Lol , what an EXTREMELY Massive WASTE OF MONEY.
Greg Lemieux if it was a waste then the city wouldn’t pay for it.
thanks for the content! stay safe!
Good video. I think the Glendale Arena in Arizona, which is just 4 miles from me, is farily good. It has a large mixed use area called westgate. There were plans to build high rise condos and much more there, but the 2008 crash paused all of that. Not they have two separate malls, and 4 hotels and more is being built. There are also 14 restaurants. This westgate actually has two arenas in it.