When I clicked on this I told myself I was only going to watch 30 minutes, because I have too much work I need to get to. I watched the entire three and a half hours and loved every minute. Two fascinating guys telling some awesome stories. Made me laugh pretty hard a few times. I'd have loved to have been in the room. I wish Cody, I mean Goaty, the best of luck and success with his online courses.
@@astreet339 yeah , the Stark guy is a friend of ours and David had not even ridden one ….so that was cool. He is so big he makes every bike look small.
If you watch Cody ride hard enduro you will know he is the king of the alternate line and in person he is a regular guy that loves to ride, this was a great interview.
One moto guy who is very gifted that you need on the air is Shawn Palmer...is that possible? One year he got a honda ride for glen helen, i saw him qualify faster then ezra luck....He was so smooth and never got to put in on the dirt for puplic to see how good he realy was.
Absolutely amazing Podcast! You and Cody talking about the throttle and having the feel of a cable was a great discussion and something I didn't notice until you mentioned it. Keep up the great work!
If 12 mins is a venture to get groceries then my neighborhood must be considered "isolated" Also, this was a fantastic conversation! Line up more enduro dudes!
IMO the "feel" and benefits from a cable throttle, other than slight resting resistance as mentioned, but also from the extra delay from wrist-throttle-engine, the Stark being so responsive every little wrist-throttle imput is more instant leading to move overcorecctions in throttle usage, hense fatigue etc.
ripper interview fellas ! fun times .. remember Jase... Lifan built for life haha!! helmets on! Cody come for a ride in Vietnam or Cambodia . we have a VIP ticket for ya ... Merry Xmas fellas
A new concept in throttle control The Vark electric motocross bike got rave reviews from all the test riders that rode it at their press-day launch in Spain. Most of the riders felt they would be faster on the Vark than on the conventional 450's that Vark provided for comparison. They also noted how much more difficult they found riding the IC bikes after they had ridden the Vark. Why is that? Motocross is extremely difficult sport. Operating an Internal combustion motocross bike is actually a very complex task. THE COCKPIT The "cockpit" of a motocross bike is very busy, with half a dozen controls. You have a steering control (the handlebars), used for directional control and balance, then on the handlebars, on the right side, is a throttle control and a front brake control, and on the left side, a clutch control. These hand controls have to be operated while still holding on to a constantly accelerating and bouncing machine. So riders have to use their hands not only to hold on to the machine but to operate the steering, clutch, throttle and front brake. And then riders have to use their feet to operate the rear brake and the gear selector. Simpler tasks are easier to do at speed than complex tasks. Simplifying the controls of a motocross bike makes it easier to ride it faster. Electric motocross bikes simplify the cockpit by eliminating two controls, the clutch and the gear selector, thus making operating an electric motocross bike simpler and therefore easier to operate at speed, making it possible to ride faster. Having fewer controls reduces the load on the rider, making operating a motocross bike easier and easier translates into more speed. Electric bikes have shown that by simplifying the controls riders can ride faster with more consistency. And motocross is all about speed. FREEING THE FEET The lack of a clutch gives riders the option of moving the rear brake to the handlebars, thus freeing up their feet from having to operate any controls. On a conventional internal combustion motocross bike, a rider is forced to move their feet hundreds of times during a race. Freeing the feet from having to operate controls makes it much easier for a rider to maintain optimum form, with the balls of their feet on the footrests. Constantly having to move your feet to operate the controls interferes with keeping the balls of your feet on the pegs, with gripping the bike with your legs, with weighting the outside pegs in corners, with putting your foot out in corners. Substantially reducing foot movement takes a load off the rider, making riding a motocross bike noticeably easier. A rider can brake-slide into right-hand corners with their leg out and into left-hand corners with the ball of their foot weighting the outside peg. The next most disruptive control requiring a lot of movement, is the twistgrip throttle control. Just like having to operate foot-controls disrupts staying in form with the lower body so does the twistgrip throttle control disrupt staying in form with the upper body. The twistgrip throttle requires up to 70 degrees of rotation for full throttle. Operating a twistgrip throttle forces the rider to kink their wrists and lower their elbows. Good form requires straight wrists and high elbows. Low elbows reduce the rider's control of the machine, one elbow up and one down, even more because of the asymmetry. Impacts are best handled with straight wrists and high elbows. THE SOLUTION What if the rider were to twist the throttle-grip but instead of the grip rotating on the bar, a sensor measures the force of the twist action and opened the throttle accordingly but without any actual movement of the throttle-tube. Just like when you stand on an electronic scale, the scale does not move, but the pressure sensor gives an accurate readout of your weight. This could initially be done using a standard twistgrip throttle control assembly but instead of the rotation of the throttle tube pulling a cable that opens the throttle valve, the cable is connected to a lever that pushes on a pressure sensor (a load cell). The pressure sensor measures the force applied by the rider and relays that information to a ride by wire throttle control unit which opens the throttle accordingly. At production, a torque sensor could be incorporated into the throttle housing instead of the position sensor used currently, in ride by wire throttle controls. With a tradition throttle control, a rider determines the amount of throttle by rotating the twistgrip throttle tube. The position of the throttle tube determines the amount of throttle. With my system the amount of throttle is determined by how much force the rider exerts on the throttle tube without the tube actually rotating. The ratio of force to throttle opening needs to be determined by extensive testing, too low would make throttle control too sensitive and too high would cause fatigue. Individual fine tuning by the rider will be possible. With my system the twist action to open the throttle is the same as the conventional rotating grip throttle, (it takes a twist force to spin the throttlegrip) the difference is that instead of the throttle tube rotating and pulling a cable that opens the throttle, a pressure sensor measures the twist force the rider applies and sends that information to a control unit that opens the throttle accordingly, without any rotational movement of the throttle tube, thus avoiding a kinked wrist and a lowered elbow. The actions are so similar that riders shouldn't have a problem adapting. The advantage is riders can apply throttle without kinking their wrist or lowering their elbow. This would make staying in form with a straight wrist and high elbow much, much easier. ADDITIONAL BENEFITS Increased connectivity to the machine. The handlebars have two main functions, one, they provide grips for the rider to hold onto, keeping the rider attached to the machine, and the other, they are used for steering control which is essential for balance and directional control. There are two grips on the handlebars used by the rider to hold onto, keeping the rider on the bike and also connecting the rider to the steering control. One of them, the right one, is loose and spins on the handlebars. So why have a grip that spins? Necessity. Motocrossers need a throttle control, and trial and error has determined the twistgrip throttle control to be the best option available on carbureted motorcycles. But it is a compromise. While most motocross riders are aware of how the traditional twistgrip throttle interferes with keeping their elbow up and their wrist straight, few however, will be aware of the reduced connectivity to the handlebars and therefore reduced control of their machine a loose spinning grip causes because it's all they have ever known, so they are unaware of this negative affect but if you doubt that a loose grip is detrimental to connectivity, feel and control ask yourself if a downhill mountain biker would choose to have a spinning grip. In downhill mountain biking were there is no need for a throttle no rider chooses to have a spinning grip. No downhill mountain bikers would choose to have a spinning grip for obvious reasons but not obvious to motocross riders because it is all they have ever experienced, it's all they know, so a spinning grip feels natural and normal to them. Asking a motocross rider if they would like to have the left grip loose and spinning should help them realize that loose spinning grips are detrimental to connectivity, feel and ultimately control. Motocross bikes have progressed quite rapidly and are now fuel injected which presents an opportunity for another system of throttle control, a system that does not require a spinning throttle tube to control the throttle. ASYMMETRY Another thing to consider is asymmetry. There is an inherent asymmetry in having one grip loose and one grip solid. This results in asymmetry in the riders physical position on the bike when they are applying throttle, with one elbow up and the other down. Asymmetry is detrimental to control of the bike. No one wants bent bars or one footrest higher or further back than the other. Watch the start of any motocross race, as soon as the gate drops you will see riders with one elbow up and the other down. SOME HURDLES TO OVERCOME Ride by wire My system does requires a ride by wire type of throttle control unit. Currently non of the manufacturers offer ride by wire on their motocross motorcycles. I am aware that the FIM has currently banned ride by wire throttle control for reasons that are unclear. I cannot think of a rational reason why the FIM has banned ride by wire for MXGP. It certainly cannot be for safety reasons because ride by wire is used on 200hp superbikes and it can't be because of costs because it is also used on budget bikes like the KTM 390 Duke. As far as I know the AMA has not banned ride by wire. I am sure the FIM could be persuaded to lift their ban, surely they do not want to stand in the way of progress? Proof of concept tests No current motocross bike has ride by wire, so to test my system would require converting an OEM motocross bike to ride by wire. I think it would probably be easier for initial proof of concept tests to be done on an electric bike like the KTM Freeride E, the Alta, the Vark or the ElectricMotion trials bike. continued below.
WHISKEY THROTTLE Some people have commented that they think my system could result in accidental throttle openings (whiskey throttle) while bouncing around a motocross track with high impacts like square edge bumps and hard landings. (Some of those may have confused twist force with squeeze pressure.) My argument against that is that any action that would cause accidental throttle on my twist force throttle control, would also cause accidental throttle on a conventional twist position throttle control, so a twist force throttle would not be more prone to accidental throttle than a traditional twistgrip throttle. In other words any action that resulted in an unintended twist force being applied to the throttle grip would also result in the rotation of a traditional throttle's twistgrip. Both systems require a twist force to increase throttle, it is just that with my system there is no rotational movement. Surely if riders can keep the throttle-tube in a consistent position without unintentionally moving it while bouncing around a motocross track they would be able to keep a consistent twist pressure while bouncing around a motocross track. My twist pressure throttle control will not cause any more accidental throttle than the traditional system. In fact I believe it could result in less unintended throttle because it is easier to reduce twist force on the throttle grip without actually having to counter rotate it than having to counter rotate the throttle tube while being pushed back by the accidental acceleration. I believe my throttle control system would not only be beneficial in motocross but hard-enduro, trials, off-road and even in the high precision world of MotoGP. Alfred Karius
I think we all know Colton is full of himself. Would have been good to hear more of his time with Beta and ktm. Especially the block Gomez done on Pol to allow Colton to win the endurocross championship, it was proper dirty and I think the catalyst for Cody leaving Ktm. Link incase anyone missed it, I'm still pissed for Cody 😂 ua-cam.com/video/YkrLfjEXwCk/v-deo.html Get Shane watts on, he won't hold back on his views in the off-road world 😅
Gally pulled us all into quarter. We are 'Motocross Riders' not shit flingers. Dack wasn't impressed either, Sargent was disgusted. Only train B grade up.
This was some great conversation! Thank you Gypsy Tales for having Cody on, he's had a huge impact on hard enduro in the USA.
Awesome! Would be really cool to see more hard enduro riders
Thanks for this one Jace! It’s awesome to have all the variety of motor sports people on your platform! In my opinion, you’re the goat of Moto podcast
Cody seems like a genuinely nice guy. So humble and down to earth. Very refreshing. Love his take on Billy! Thanks for these.
Motul and SKF sales went up 10% after this podcast
Need Johnny Walker ! This was good
AWESOME VIBES HERE ! Really enjoyed this episode! RIDE ON
1:59:00 Pissing in the bike!🤣 Dude thats the best story
When I clicked on this I told myself I was only going to watch 30 minutes, because I have too much work I need to get to. I watched the entire three and a half hours and loved every minute. Two fascinating guys telling some awesome stories. Made me laugh pretty hard a few times. I'd have loved to have been in the room. I wish Cody, I mean Goaty, the best of luck and success with his online courses.
Hard Enduro plus engineering. Should be a podcast of its own
Stoked on Cody! Next up as a guest, MANI!
This was a crazy good episode. The chemistry is wild! Like this might be the best one imo. Genuinely good friends
Get that Sherco 300 man, you’ll love it!
We need a billy bolt interview
He’s already been on
Another one after his perfect season would be sweet though!
loved Donner Partying though!
I love Cody
Loved that edit of donner!!!!
Need to get a GNCC guy on!
I was at the TKO this year and saw Knighter riding the Stark and he looked a little uneasy on the Stark
He will figure it out if they make a deal. He can ride anything!. We were there…. We raced electric Motion bikes.
@@robinjohnson4613 yeah he for sure I figured it out after riding it a little bit. Knighter is a legend!
@@astreet339 yeah , the Stark guy is a friend of ours and David had not even ridden one ….so that was cool. He is so big he makes every bike look small.
If you watch Cody ride hard enduro you will know he is the king of the alternate line and in person he is a regular guy that loves to ride, this was a great interview.
Cody is such a good guy. Got to meet him and ride his bike in a demo in Indiana this summer. He didn't act hollywood at all
2:58:42 and the next like 5 mins is so true! Haha 😂
Hard Enduro is gaining so much popularity worldwide. Such a cool sports!
One moto guy who is very gifted that you need on the air is Shawn Palmer...is that possible? One year he got a honda ride for glen helen, i saw him qualify faster then ezra luck....He was so smooth and never got to put in on the dirt for puplic to see how good he realy was.
"That's how you know you made it when someone is selling your doughnuts"- Goaty LOLOLOL best quote
Need to get Colton on here
Absolutely amazing Podcast! You and Cody talking about the throttle and having the feel of a cable was a great discussion and something I didn't notice until you mentioned it. Keep up the great work!
Taddy didn't win erzberg in 2006, Knighter won it 2005 and 2006, 🇮🇲🇮🇲🇮🇲
If 12 mins is a venture to get groceries then my neighborhood must be considered "isolated"
Also, this was a fantastic conversation! Line up more enduro dudes!
Really enjoyed listening to you guys, Cody is such a cool guy
Awesome podcast per usual
I’m friends with Webb’s former mechanic and I was married to a Donner.. the irony. Great Podcast!
IMO the "feel" and benefits from a cable throttle, other than slight resting resistance as mentioned, but also from the extra delay from wrist-throttle-engine, the Stark being so responsive every little wrist-throttle imput is more instant leading to move overcorecctions in throttle usage, hense fatigue etc.
I can remember Cody being the text rider in the magazines back when he was on 50s and 65s. 😂
I'm old 😢
Great interview
Thanks bro!
I had no idea that Webb is so hilarious. Awesome content!
😎Cool guy
Thank you guys! Now Get Johnny Walker !!!
Fun times - Ballards
🐐🐐
Give this man a water!!!!
ripper interview fellas ! fun times .. remember Jase... Lifan built for life haha!! helmets on! Cody come for a ride in Vietnam or Cambodia . we have a VIP ticket for ya ... Merry Xmas fellas
Thumper Nats - feel your feet shake!
Jase i never get notified of your posting Ive been subscribed for probably 5years if not longer as of recently i havent gotten the notification
A new concept in throttle control
The Vark electric motocross bike got rave reviews from all the test riders that rode it at their press-day launch in Spain.
Most of the riders felt they would be faster on the Vark than on the conventional 450's that Vark provided for comparison.
They also noted how much more difficult they found riding the IC bikes after they had ridden the Vark.
Why is that?
Motocross is extremely difficult sport.
Operating an Internal combustion motocross bike is actually a very complex task.
THE COCKPIT
The "cockpit" of a motocross bike is very busy, with half a dozen controls.
You have a steering control (the handlebars), used for directional control and balance, then on the handlebars, on the right side, is a throttle control and a front brake control, and on the left side, a clutch control. These hand controls have to be operated while still holding on to a constantly accelerating and bouncing machine.
So riders have to use their hands not only to hold on to the machine but to operate the steering, clutch, throttle and front brake.
And then riders have to use their feet to operate the rear brake and the gear selector.
Simpler tasks are easier to do at speed than complex tasks.
Simplifying the controls of a motocross bike makes it easier to ride it faster.
Electric motocross bikes simplify the cockpit by eliminating two controls, the clutch and the gear selector, thus making operating an electric motocross bike simpler and therefore easier to operate at speed, making it possible to ride faster.
Having fewer controls reduces the load on the rider, making operating a motocross bike easier and easier translates into more speed.
Electric bikes have shown that by simplifying the controls riders can ride faster with more consistency.
And motocross is all about speed.
FREEING THE FEET
The lack of a clutch gives riders the option of moving the rear brake to the handlebars, thus freeing up their feet from having to operate any controls.
On a conventional internal combustion motocross bike, a rider is forced to move their feet hundreds of times during a race.
Freeing the feet from having to operate controls makes it much easier for a rider to maintain optimum form, with the balls of their feet on the footrests.
Constantly having to move your feet to operate the controls interferes with
keeping the balls of your feet on the pegs,
with gripping the bike with your legs,
with weighting the outside pegs in corners,
with putting your foot out in corners.
Substantially reducing foot movement takes a load off the rider, making riding a motocross bike noticeably easier.
A rider can brake-slide into right-hand corners with their leg out and into left-hand corners with the ball of their foot weighting the outside peg.
The next most disruptive control requiring a lot of movement, is the twistgrip throttle control.
Just like having to operate foot-controls disrupts staying in form with the lower body so does the twistgrip throttle control disrupt staying in form with the upper body.
The twistgrip throttle requires up to 70 degrees of rotation for full throttle.
Operating a twistgrip throttle forces the rider to kink their wrists and lower their elbows.
Good form requires straight wrists and high elbows. Low elbows reduce the rider's control of the machine, one elbow up and one down, even more because of the asymmetry.
Impacts are best handled with straight wrists and high elbows.
THE SOLUTION
What if the rider were to twist the throttle-grip but instead of the grip rotating on the bar, a sensor measures the force of the twist action and opened the throttle accordingly but without any actual movement of the throttle-tube.
Just like when you stand on an electronic scale, the scale does not move, but the pressure sensor gives an accurate readout of your weight.
This could initially be done using a standard twistgrip throttle control assembly but instead of the rotation of the throttle tube pulling a cable that opens the throttle valve, the cable is connected to a lever that pushes on a pressure sensor (a load cell).
The pressure sensor measures the force applied by the rider and relays that information to a ride by wire throttle control unit which opens the throttle accordingly.
At production, a torque sensor could be incorporated into the throttle housing instead of the
position sensor used currently, in ride by wire throttle controls.
With a tradition throttle control, a rider determines the amount of throttle by rotating the twistgrip throttle tube. The position of the throttle tube determines the amount of throttle.
With my system the amount of throttle is determined by how much force the rider exerts on the throttle tube without the tube actually rotating. The ratio of force to throttle opening needs to be determined by extensive testing, too low would make throttle control too sensitive and too high would cause fatigue. Individual fine tuning by the rider will be possible.
With my system the twist action to open the throttle is the same as the conventional rotating grip throttle, (it takes a twist force to spin the throttlegrip) the difference is that instead of the throttle tube rotating and pulling a cable that opens the throttle, a pressure sensor measures the twist force the rider applies and sends that information to a control unit that opens the throttle accordingly, without any rotational movement of the throttle tube, thus avoiding a kinked wrist and a lowered elbow.
The actions are so similar that riders shouldn't have a problem adapting. The advantage is riders can apply throttle without kinking their wrist or lowering their elbow. This would make staying in form with a straight wrist and high elbow much, much easier.
ADDITIONAL BENEFITS
Increased connectivity to the machine.
The handlebars have two main functions, one, they provide grips for the rider to hold onto, keeping the rider attached to the machine, and the other, they are used for steering control which is essential for balance and directional control.
There are two grips on the handlebars used by the rider to hold onto, keeping the rider on the bike and also connecting the rider to the steering control.
One of them, the right one, is loose and spins on the handlebars.
So why have a grip that spins?
Necessity.
Motocrossers need a throttle control, and trial and error has determined the twistgrip throttle control to be the best option available on carbureted motorcycles. But it is a compromise.
While most motocross riders are aware of how the traditional twistgrip throttle interferes with keeping their elbow up and their wrist straight, few however, will be aware of the reduced connectivity to the handlebars and therefore reduced control of their machine a loose spinning grip causes because it's all they have ever known, so they are unaware of this negative affect but if you doubt that a loose grip is detrimental to connectivity, feel and control
ask yourself if a downhill mountain biker would choose to have a spinning grip.
In downhill mountain biking were there is no need for a throttle no rider chooses to have a spinning grip.
No downhill mountain bikers would choose to have a spinning grip for obvious reasons but not obvious to motocross riders because it is all they have ever experienced, it's all they know, so a spinning grip feels natural and normal to them.
Asking a motocross rider if they would like to have the left grip loose and spinning should help them realize that loose spinning grips are detrimental to connectivity, feel and ultimately control.
Motocross bikes have progressed quite rapidly and are now fuel injected which presents an opportunity for another system of throttle control, a system that does not require a spinning throttle tube to control the throttle.
ASYMMETRY
Another thing to consider is asymmetry.
There is an inherent asymmetry in having one grip loose and one grip solid.
This results in asymmetry in the riders physical position on the bike when they are applying throttle, with one elbow up and the other down.
Asymmetry is detrimental to control of the bike. No one wants bent bars or one footrest higher or further back than the other.
Watch the start of any motocross race, as soon as the gate drops you will see riders with one elbow up and the other down.
SOME HURDLES TO OVERCOME
Ride by wire
My system does requires a ride by wire type of throttle control unit.
Currently non of the manufacturers offer ride by wire on their motocross motorcycles.
I am aware that the FIM has currently banned ride by wire throttle control for reasons that are unclear. I cannot think of a rational reason why the FIM has banned ride by wire for MXGP.
It certainly cannot be for safety reasons because ride by wire is used on 200hp superbikes and it can't be because of costs because it is also used on budget bikes like the KTM 390 Duke.
As far as I know the AMA has not banned ride by wire.
I am sure the FIM could be persuaded to lift their ban, surely they do not want to stand in the way of progress?
Proof of concept tests
No current motocross bike has ride by wire, so to test my system would require converting an OEM motocross bike to ride by wire. I think it would probably be easier for initial proof of concept tests to be done on an electric bike like the KTM Freeride E, the Alta, the Vark or the ElectricMotion trials bike.
continued below.
WHISKEY THROTTLE
Some people have commented that they think my system could result in accidental throttle openings (whiskey throttle) while bouncing around a motocross track with high impacts like square edge bumps and hard landings. (Some of those may have confused twist force with squeeze pressure.)
My argument against that is that any action that would cause accidental throttle on my twist force throttle control, would also cause accidental throttle on a conventional twist position throttle control, so a twist force throttle would not be more prone to accidental throttle than a traditional twistgrip throttle.
In other words any action that resulted in an unintended twist force being applied to the throttle grip would also result in the rotation of a traditional throttle's twistgrip.
Both systems require a twist force to increase throttle, it is just that with my system there is no rotational movement.
Surely if riders can keep the throttle-tube in a consistent position without unintentionally moving it while bouncing around a motocross track they would be able to keep a consistent twist pressure while bouncing around a motocross track.
My twist pressure throttle control will not cause any more accidental throttle than the traditional system.
In fact I believe it could result in less unintended throttle because it is easier to reduce twist force on the throttle grip without actually having to counter rotate it than having to counter rotate the throttle tube while being pushed back by the accidental acceleration.
I believe my throttle control system would not only be beneficial in motocross but hard-enduro, trials, off-road and even in the high precision world of MotoGP.
Alfred Karius
Didn’t Ronnie Renee throttle get stuck on a ebike and completely destroyed someone T bone and get knocked out for 20 mins lol
💪🏼💪🏼😲😎👏👏👏👏👏🏆🏁💯
I met a gypsy… he stole my bike 😂
I think we all know Colton is full of himself.
Would have been good to hear more of his time with Beta and ktm. Especially the block Gomez done on Pol to allow Colton to win the endurocross championship, it was proper dirty and I think the catalyst for Cody leaving Ktm. Link incase anyone missed it, I'm still pissed for Cody 😂
ua-cam.com/video/YkrLfjEXwCk/v-deo.html
Get Shane watts on, he won't hold back on his views in the off-road world 😅
Dargle
Offer services. Get your elbow up!
Gally Camps, best shit ever!
I know I know I know I know
Home of Aus Motocross
Thumper nats, when these Enduro blokes beat us at MX - scourge. Not acceptable!
Gally pulled us all into quarter. We are 'Motocross Riders' not shit flingers. Dack wasn't impressed either, Sargent was disgusted. Only train B grade up.
Fucks threw shit on the mirrors at Dargle. Must have been boat racers.
Literally ALL of Oregon hates Portland, we DISOWN Portlandia
The 4T 300 sounds a lot like the 2T 200 in terms of rider friendly usability