I'm on flux and just had 1st months bill 12 March/12 April I imported £45 and exported £108 it's working well for me and as months get better generation I will decrease import and increase export and in winter will just switch to go
I’ve just been put on Flux as of today as I had to wait for the MCS and DNO, but as far as I can see, with my 13kw of storage aslong as the daytime rate is higher than the 2-5 am charge time I should be on to a winner, time will tell. PS, the fam has been warned that if they touch the cooker, washing machine or dryer between 4-7 I will tear their arms off and beat them with the soggy end lol 😂
Good assessment of the options. I have a 6.4kw array and 16.8kwh battery system. I have have a high excess in summer ( 27kwh at 3pm today) and I can export approx 10kwh in the peak period. During the winter I will use all of my generation and empty most of the batteries so my strategy is to use Flux April to September and then Go from October to March. Best of both worlds 👍
I also did wonder if they would allow tariff swapping like this. I'm now on Flux, but I was on Go. The Go I was on gave 7.5p kWh overnight, but that rate seems much higher if I wanted Go now. I guess they may lift the Go overnight rate to make it less advantageous to jump.
Very good summary. I have decided to always charge the 10kwH battery to 100% on Eco7 @ 18p and the car. Then ALL the excess PV is exported at 15p. No complex car charger, just the granny plug. No complex heating of water tanks. No thought involved, If the next day is dull we will not pull electricity at 46.25p kwH (where I live) if we have 30kwH surplus it all goes @15p. I am probably not being totally smart, but also there is a maximum you can charge and export to make marginal income and you need to account for the stress on the batteries if you charge and discharge at maximum rates. The Eco7 allows the battery to charge at 70% rate and still fill up. Like you noticed the faff is not outweighed by the income, and I am sure Octopus have worked that out too.
Thank you for the video. As we have a GivEnergy 8.2kwh battery and we are on Octopus Flux, I did a forced discharge test and took the readings from the smart meter the next day. The battery exported 6.9kwh from 100% charged all the way down to 0 (didn't stop at 4%). It used 9.8 kWh to fully charge back to 100%. Round trip efficiency of the battery is only 70% and I have now stopped discharging to the grid during peak hours as the gain is just 4.5p/ kWh and in my opinion doesn't worth it.
GO is available for non-EV owners as well! I'm on it, and no EV. Chatted to them before switching, and they were very happy to switch me. Even happier with GO tariff going down from 12p to 9p ish.
I have 7kw array w/ a 10kw battery and have been on Flux for nearly a month. NOTE due to a fault on the inverter, I cannot use the 10kw currently stored in the battery, in effect I am currently battery less. However my current import is c 4.5kw per day averaging £1.20 per day and export average is 14kw per day averaging £3.80 of in per day. This is for May so the net benefit per day is £2.40 per day, when the battery is working again this would be £3.60 per day. Moving into full summer, the numbers change much or dramatically, I expect a cost of £0 per day if I charge the battery at the cheap rate. NB, I reduced my overall consumption by fitting wifi plugs to nearly everything that is non essential the default is all devices are off until I turn them on and then at 0100 everything that is non essential gets turned off. That in itself reduced my consumption by >20%. So for my setup, flux is brilliant at the current tariff levels however when I turn on the A/C it will still be good but not as cash flow positive.....I have A/C and no EV
An excellent analysis which seems sorely lacking in many other commentators Daniel. Octopus dont want it to work for anyone! They want people to NOT do the sums that you have done but be tempted by the carrot of export but stung by the overnight assassination of our EV charging. You must remember your two missing months data are the winter trough (I think) where the battery needs to be charged to 80-90pc. Also remember you will be hammered by every distributor for gas especially when the price finally stops being gifted to distributors by the cap (currently holding UP the price per kWh). They also have one of the highest standing charges around? Good luck in July. Looks like you will do as well as possible.
This was an interesting video on the subject matter. What I find on this and other analysis know one seem to take into consideration the efficiency/losses of the battery storage system (which can be as high as 40%) The losses can wipe out the benefits of charging your battery storage overnight.
The thing that people with Flux are often missing is that they should charge up home batteries to a maximum (100% for LFP otherwise 80%) during the 2-5am slot then discharge them down to 10% during the 4-7pm slot. You might think you should keep some charge for your own use later in the evening, but so long as you avoid importing during 4-7pm it is better to export as much as possible and then import from the grid for your needs after 7pm. This strategy can save/make you up to £300 a year extra depending on battery size and it even works during the winter when solar generation is low. It should be possible to configure the inverter to schedule this automatically. GO can still be better if you need high EV charging overnight.
Flux perfect for me with 9.2kwp panels 17.2kwh battery no EV and daily use of about 10kwh. I do a forced battery discharge of about 10kwh between 4 and 7 pm and fill the battery to 100% between 2 and 5 am. Had my first statement from Octopus covering second half March and first half April telling me my account had received £90 credit. Expecting this to get better as weather improves and days get longer. Thinking I may switch back to Economy 7 for Nov to Feb.
Are you sure it's worth selling back? According to a comment above, the round trip efficiency for their set-up is 70% which is basically like bringing the flux export price to 26.6p (70% of 38p). You're then getting about 5.6p per kwh but suffer extra wear and tear on your system.
@@rupert274 Good Question. Before I give my take on this let me emphasize that I have no expertise in this area so may be total BS - but here goes. I discharge 60% of the battery (10kwh) between 4pm and 7pm and use 30% to run the house up to 2am. (5kwh) Between 2am and 5am I draw about 16kwh which recharges the battery (15kwh) and runs the house (1kwh). The efficiency of this cycle appears to be very roughly 100%. The explanation for the discrepancy between this and the quoted 70% round trip efficiency is that this is entirely a battery round trip - the solar panels have no bearing on this. My battery manufacturer quotes a round trip efficiency for the battery as being 95%.
Octopus ‘COSY’ Tariff might suit many people. It’s 20p for two periods 4-7am AND 1-4pm. A high rate of 53p 4-7pm. 33p all other times. Standing charge 49p per day - For heat pump users only. Combine it with their export tariff of 15p and it’s all good. The rates vary depending on Postcode.
I noticed that tariff the other day, 2x periods of cheaper electric. A great alternative to flux, but not sure it's quite as good. Especially not for EV drivers.
@@daniel_coe I agree it will not be for everyone, but it’s a good intermediary tariff for those in our situation, ASHP, Solar & 9.5 Battery - But no EV. In Jan & Feb predominantly, we need to charge twice as our 9.5 battery isn’t nearly enough. I need to consider adding another 9.5 battery before an EV. Or how about a V2G or V2H set up - there could be a video in that! Enjoying your work. Thank you.
I have a 4kW panel array and an 8.2 GivEnergy battery. No EV. Moved to Flux last Sunday. So far it's been a total winner with export payments easily covering costs (incl. standing charge) and then some. I should add I've not changed my normal energy use to achieve this. In terms of the 4-7pm peak, if the battery is at (or near) 100%, I export 2-2.5 kWh leaving me plenty to cover cooking and through the night energy use. Obviously it's worth checking solcast first and not exporting if the next day looks iffy. In a nutshell, Flux is a massive improvement over my old tariff.
I think this may be the one for me, we have ordered our system, hopefully it will be installed at the end of may. 6300kwp panels 6kw inverter and 9600kwh battery. We are on a fix from 2021 until September so will switch once the SEG is set up and so on…
I have just changed to octopus flux and you have to be already an octopus customer to do it, my figures are a family of 4 at home all day, 5,6 KW south facing panels, 5 KW battery storage no ev, my current consumption per day is averaging 3KW from grid, exporting 12 KW and current consumption in total 12 KW per day, so my figures I think is grid cost including standing charge is£1.60 per day and SEG payment at 24p is £2.28 per day. This will change in summer and drastically in winter but overall I think I'm a winner
Hi, really interesting that you are getting it to work with just a 5hwh battery. I have a 5.8kw array and 5kwh battery. Can I ask do you actually export anything during the 16.00 to 19. hours? Or just export whenever the battery is full in the daytime. My problem is evening usage fluctuates between 4 and 10kwh. I have no control on usage.
I think it might be for a lot of people. The thing is with us is, the car needs 18, hot water 8, battery 8. That's 34 kWh, so probably everything we would produce in a day, with no spare to export.
Having just installed solar PV and a home battery within the last month, I would be very very interested to know how you could stay on Octopus GO tariff for import. but also get onto the 15p/Kwh for export?!?!?! When I asked Octopus, they said that on "Go", my one and only option was the risible 4.1p/Kwh SEG export tariff.... Anybody....?
6.4k array and 10k battery here, I switched to Flux pretty much as soon as I could once the MCS arrived. It feels like a no-brainer for the summer months. Even on a cloudy day I've got fully charged batteries by mid-day ish and then it's export all the way until I boil the kettle.... note to self, must start drinking cold-brew😂 Where on the Octopus dashboard are you folks seeing an export data read out?
It's definitely a no-brainer if you have solar and a battery, just perhaps not if you do a lot of EV miles. I suppose it depends on how much you export as well.
I don't export anything. I'd rather use the energy myself and my battery, inverter and panels are not being flogged. With Octopus Agile I can buy at the cheapest time. I hardly pay anything over 8 months of the year
Interesting post. Only recently had solar + battery installed (about 7 wks) and more importantly only started receiving export credit about 3 wks ago. I have an EV car (not much mileage) and on the GO tariff, I only have limited data so far and no idea how it will pan out over winter months. To date my NET costs (ie after exporting) for the past 3 weeks have been £24.21 CREDIT on GO but I would have received £39.51 CREDIT on the Flux tariff had I been on that instead. My gut feel is that I would be better off on Flux from Apr-Sept and on GO from Oct - Mar ie I would need to keep switching between the two twice a year. Still undecided about changing to Flux now (as we are going into sunnier days!) as its still very early days and I'm adjusting to living with Solar which means for example charging the car and putting dishwasher etc on during the day rather than overnight. Also I want to see what happens with tariffs in July first as they are expected to come down. A lot will also probably depend on how straightforward and quick it is to change tariffs!
There is a lot to learn at the beginning, and you do indeed change your habits of when things get used. I think if you do very little miles, then flux may be better. It depends really how much you export. As you say, having more data will make it easier to make an informed decision.
Sounds very very similar to my situation. My one main question is about tariff-switching as you suggest..... WILL OCTOPUS ALLOW IT??? Will they actually let you you swap tariff's multiple times per year?
Considering Octopus Go and Flux (on lower tariff than both at present but very low feed in tariff). I have just had a 4.7kw array and 4.8 kwh battery installed (plus I have an EV with 58kwh battery). No 7kw charger YET as I do about 3000 miles a year. A Zappi can use excess solar but will cost £1000 to install. House uses 3900 kwh per year (2022) of electricity with combi gas boiler so can't add electric immersion heater. Generated 18 kw today and put some in car via granny charger at 1.4 kw or 8 amps.
@@daniel_coe Zappi quoted at £1400 to install which was a shock. Using granny charger and set car to charge via charge routine only on sunny days but at least its free electric. I got over 15% in 3 hours on a 58kwH battery today.
I had 8 solar panels and 9.5kWh batteries installed just before Christmas. I have an EV but don't need to charge it more than once a week, some times 3 times in 2 weeks with the smaller charge window at night.. I switched from the Go Tariff and now the longer days are here, seem to be spending around £1.50 a day on electricity. But I'm also exporting at the higher rates. My last 2 bills seem confusing as I have 3 different electricity charges for short periods, which is odd! However, for the 10 days I exported electricity in April, I received £7.17 in export payment. In a weeks time, I should have a full picture of import and export charges. However, the app seems to indicate that I am getting as little as 3p a day for export. Despite sometimes average between 0.2 and 1.5 kWh export during most of the day after the house battery has charged. I guess I'll switch back to the Go tariff in the autumn.
I moved to Octopus and was directed to Flux tariff as I have solar and batteries. I have huawai batteries and have been told that these are not compatible to accept the charge overnight. Only Givenergy batteries??
It’s an interesting tariff, but probably not cost efficient for me at the moment. I’m on Octopus tracker 20p today and fixed export at 15p. I exported 4kwh today between 11.30 - 17.30. Full battery and cooking done, will keep me running overnight. Flux would leave me with a shortfall as I’m trying to minimise grid usage and battery cycles. Today I’ve used 13kwh, 12 of which has been covered by battery and solar.
Yes, I don't think it fits all people. Just wish the export rates on Go were better. Although I don't think we export a lot anyway, we'll see this summer now that we have 2x EVs and the hot water to heat via the Eddi
I'm on Octopus tracker too and I'm happy with it. Just had solar installed last week and I've started looking into the figures. I didn't think it was possible to be on Tracker and be paid for the export. This might be the best option for me, pls explain how you've done that.
Just started on the Flux tariff. Interested on your thoughts. I am retired and have 10KwH of battery capacity and a 5Kw inverter. I also have a plug in hybrid vehicle, and most of mileage is covered by its capacity, I do not have any fast charging so I use the "granny charger" to replenish my batteries. I will be doing analysis to see how I have benefitted by moving from a regular domestic tariff. One thing I notice that your figures and also the figures of most providing similar information is that the lifespan of the batteries is not taken into consideration.
The batteries in the house are under warranty for 10 years, I believe the new ones are 12 years. So I expect to at least get that lifespan out of them. If they go wrong after that, so be it. They would have paid for themselves, I suppose by then anyway.
If you mean export, then never come off of fits as long as you are still getting that great guaranteed export rate. You can still have a lot of these new tariffs, but just not the export side of things.
I only recently got my solar panels, batteries and EV so I don’t have as much data. But we have an EV, a PHEV and a home battery to charge overnight (in winter). So the higher Flux overnight rate and reduced lower rate hours would cost us a lot more - and if I needed to charge the EV a lot, you just can’t do it in 3 hours. According to Octopus Compare, Go is cheaper than Flux by £74 in the last month (import only), I’d have to be exporting a lot to make up that difference
Yes, I love the export prices of it, but I don't think it works for all, like higher mileage EV drivers. We also need about 8 kWh a day to heat our hot water.
@@derongalloway good question. Can't currently have Intelligent Octopus, I have an MG4 and a Zappi. The rumour is always that the Zappi is close to being added...
I think you are accurate in your assessment. My main objective was to avoid using On Peak and I think may be an argument for Flux from May to September if you can be bothered to keep checking your use. I have been on Go at 4p/14p which comes to an end on 2/6/23 and I fee Intelligent with 6 hours @ 7.5p to charge 20kw battery and an EV, perhaps 30kwh , 3 times a week off peak is the way forward. I might export to BG AT 6p My big saving will be avoiding 41p on peak
Another alternative is Tracker. I’ve been on it since February and it’s reopening in July. In the midlands today Gas is 3.45p and electricity is 15.61p. I’m also on the fixed export which is 15p.
Hi, just had solar panels installed eight weeks back. Your video is very informative but there are lots of points to grasp and decide on what tariff to go for export. Just had all necessary documents from the installers which my supplier (Octopus) will need to set the ball rolling. I have subscribed and 'liked' to your channel and hopefully will contact you for further advice if it's ok with you. Many thanks for uploading this useful video👌👌
We've been Octopus customers for many years, they are such a forward thinking company. Flux may possibly benefit me, having plenty of battery storage. However my main concern is the increased cycling of the batteries and what that may do to their longevity? 🤔 I'd appreciate advice on this. 👍
I suppose it depends if you want to export at the peak export rate time to earn some extra pennies. I do believe the batteries are under warranty for at least 10 years and a certain number of cycles. The choice is really yours.
LFP batteries will last 10-15 years with a full cycle each day. By that time there will be cheaper bigger batteries on the market (maybe sodium based) so it will be time to upgrade anyway.
I'm with OutfoxtheMarket economy 7 and my dayrate is 29.86p per kwh while Economy 7 rate is 18.33 from 12am to 7am. There is a 50.15p daily service charge in my area. There is no export facility from my battery or solar. So I charge my 6.5 kw battery from the grid from 12:30 am to 3:00 am it then trickles until my heat pumpkicks in for water heating first thing and then usually recharges during the day to around 50% covering the evenings usage until recharge at night. Although there is no export facility I have an excellent Feed in Tarrif as my system was installed at the highaest FIT rate about 11 years ago and my FIT generation tariff is now around 70.15p per kwh as it is inflation linked. Another bonus is that the company only deals with green suppliers from wind and solar farms.
@@daniel_coe I was lucky to squeeze in at the ending of the high FIT. My system paid for itself in around 8 years (I also had a Renewable Energy grant which paid for my heat pump installation in 6 1/2 years). At pesent rates I usually get around £2500+ for my FIT at present. As the Times said at the time it was the best financial investment I ever made.
How did you gather export data based on time of day. Basically how do I gather export data for my off-peak an peak times. I do not want to do it manually for every export entry.
That could be the best thing to do. I'm just not sure about doing it myself yet, I think I need some more data to see if swapping EVs during the week would mean we could cut costs of Go and move to Flux. I just don't think I would still have much excess to export to get the benefit of flux. Just wish they would increase the export price on Go. 4p is horrible compared to these newer tariffs.
@@daniel_coe people on Go or Intelligent are generally Net importers. I have an EV and still managing to get Flux to work for me. I only drive 20miles a day for 3 days then the weekends can vary (split 7.3kw array E/W together with a PW) with the current weather im exporting by 8am, still waiting on Tesla switching on the export function of the PW then I should be in profit between £5-8 a day. The way the tariff is setup you’re better charging the EV between 2-5am and charging the battery 🔋 to 100% to maximise your export during the day.
Great video, as I am trying to ascertain whether with this Flux rate whether it is worth increasing my battery storage from 5 to 10kwh, which costs £3k.
Yes, I have been thinking the same, I wouldn't need it for summer. But my battery shortfall over the winter was so low in £ it didn't justify the cost based on a battery lasting 10 years. Perhaps batteries will get cheaper once we have cheaper EVs coming from China, which may drive battery prices down. I think I'll wait a year or two and see.
We just seem to use most of the power we generate and running the numbers we were better off on Go with the 2x EVs. Although renewal on Go is soon, we'll see what happens. It is currently 9p overnight. Hopefully, that will drop again this summer.
Thanks Daniel - I have just had solar installed so looking at the best export rate, BUT i also have a PHEV, so it was really interesting to see your flux rate data. One of my main concerns with the Flux tariff is in winter, when you are generating very little solar, you will have to pay a ~50% PREMIUM on your unit rate during the peak period, when we are likely to be cooking dinner, etc (with an energy hungry induction hob), compared to a bog standard tariff. I think I might need to look elsewhere for an old-fashioned Economy 7 tariff import and sign up to Scottish Power's stand-alone export account (which pays a flat rate of 12p/kWh). Any thoughts??
@@daniel_coe Interesting! I have a PHEV and charger which are not compatible with Intelligent Octopus, but i could use Go! (which gives 4 hours overnight at 9.5p/kWh).
OutFoxThe Market also do a good E7 rate - see my recent post. Although I have no EV at the moment I only use 3 of the 7 cheap rate hours to recharge my domestic battery which would leave 4 hrs for EV charging (at 18.33 per kwh). This supplier is regularly quoted as the cheapest in the market (at least when I try comparison sites), but I have a good feed inn tariff as there is no export facility on this tariff. Another bonus to my green credentials is that the company only deals with green suppliers from wind and solar farms.
Great info. My array will be installed next week. I'm picking up tips from the comments here. I'm with Octopus already but how easy is it to flit between go and fkux? I gave no EV by the way. Cheers Tony
I think it's quite simple once you are an octopus customer. I believe you just need to be on one of the tariffs at least a month before switching back again. There shouldn't be any notice period on either of those tariffs.
We have 4KW of PV and I am in the process of buying an AC inverter and battery (probably about 15KWh). I'd like to pick up one of the smart Octopus tariffs but we don't have (or even plan to have) an EV or a heat pump... and we have an existing FIT which pays 19p per KWh on GENERATION. I don't really want to give up the FIT but it seems like I cannot keep the FIT while getting cheap overnight electricity to charge the batteries during the winter. I can understand why Octopus may have set things up this way but have I missed something fundamental so allowing me to have my cake and to eat it?
I don't know if you can get around it by not touching the FIT setup but have separate panels for newer tariffs if you have the roof space. Perhaps ask someone like octopus energy.
Hi Daniel, I called OE about two hours ago. The customer service agent said he would send me a link to GO and Flux and that all was explained there. I asked him specifically if we could keep our FIT, surrendering the deemed export. He said "we will move you to Octopus". The link was to something I had aleady seen and it said we could keep the generation section of opur FIT and that the deemed export would end up under Octopus. So I sent OE a reply email stating what I understood the customer service agent to say vs. what the FAQ's say and asking for a definitive answer. I've had no reply so far.
You should also tell people you are also making £50 every time someone uses your code. Otherwise it comes across like your doing them a favour and in fact you are also benefitting
Hi there I emailed Octopus with the referral code and they can not find anything with that. They are asking me for your name and address for some reason
I'm on flux and just had 1st months bill 12 March/12 April I imported £45 and exported £108 it's working well for me and as months get better generation I will decrease import and increase export and in winter will just switch to go
Can you switch back sand forth during one year?
@@jimhignett6993 yes
I’ve just been put on Flux as of today as I had to wait for the MCS and DNO, but as far as I can see, with my 13kw of storage aslong as the daytime rate is higher than the 2-5 am charge time I should be on to a winner, time will tell.
PS, the fam has been warned that if they touch the cooker, washing machine or dryer between 4-7 I will tear their arms off and beat them with the soggy end lol 😂
Good assessment of the options. I have a 6.4kw array and 16.8kwh battery system. I have have a high excess in summer ( 27kwh at 3pm today) and I can export approx 10kwh in the peak period. During the winter I will use all of my generation and empty most of the batteries so my strategy is to use Flux April to September and then Go from October to March. Best of both worlds 👍
I also did wonder if they would allow tariff swapping like this. I'm now on Flux, but I was on Go. The Go I was on gave 7.5p kWh overnight, but that rate seems much higher if I wanted Go now. I guess they may lift the Go overnight rate to make it less advantageous to jump.
Very nice!
Very good summary. I have decided to always charge the 10kwH battery to 100% on Eco7 @ 18p and the car. Then ALL the excess PV is exported at 15p. No complex car charger, just the granny plug. No complex heating of water tanks. No thought involved, If the next day is dull we will not pull electricity at 46.25p kwH (where I live) if we have 30kwH surplus it all goes @15p. I am probably not being totally smart, but also there is a maximum you can charge and export to make marginal income and you need to account for the stress on the batteries if you charge and discharge at maximum rates. The Eco7 allows the battery to charge at 70% rate and still fill up. Like you noticed the faff is not outweighed by the income, and I am sure Octopus have worked that out too.
Thank you for the video.
As we have a GivEnergy 8.2kwh battery and we are on Octopus Flux, I did a forced discharge test and took the readings from the smart meter the next day. The battery exported 6.9kwh from 100% charged all the way down to 0 (didn't stop at 4%). It used 9.8 kWh to fully charge back to 100%. Round trip efficiency of the battery is only
70% and I have now stopped discharging to the grid during peak hours as the gain is just 4.5p/ kWh and in my opinion doesn't worth it.
Your 4.5p is a bit like my export rate of 4.1p, that certainly does not seem worth it. But better than nothing I suppose.
I've got a 5kw Array and Batteries I'm staying on Octopus Agile and Outgoing Agile for my Export, now we're into April Agile is great for me ❤
Sounds great!
Just joined today and the code worked! Excellent video keep posting 👍🏻
Brilliant, thanks
GO is available for non-EV owners as well! I'm on it, and no EV. Chatted to them before switching, and they were very happy to switch me. Even happier with GO tariff going down from 12p to 9p ish.
Yes, it was good to see the price drop, let's hope there is another one in the middle of 2023
Since I lack the EV it was a real easy decision for me! Making £1-2 a day at the moment as I force export for an hour in the evenings.
I take it you have lots of excess you don't need in the evenings, so lots of battery storage? We just seem to use everything we generate with 2 EVs
I have 7kw array w/ a 10kw battery and have been on Flux for nearly a month. NOTE due to a fault on the inverter, I cannot use the 10kw currently stored in the battery, in effect I am currently battery less. However my current import is c 4.5kw per day averaging £1.20 per day and export average is 14kw per day averaging £3.80 of in per day. This is for May so the net benefit per day is £2.40 per day, when the battery is working again this would be £3.60 per day. Moving into full summer, the numbers change much or dramatically, I expect a cost of £0 per day if I charge the battery at the cheap rate. NB, I reduced my overall consumption by fitting wifi plugs to nearly everything that is non essential the default is all devices are off until I turn them on and then at 0100 everything that is non essential gets turned off. That in itself reduced my consumption by >20%. So for my setup, flux is brilliant at the current tariff levels however when I turn on the A/C it will still be good but not as cash flow positive.....I have A/C and no EV
An excellent analysis which seems sorely lacking in many other commentators Daniel. Octopus dont want it to work for anyone! They want people to NOT do the sums that you have done but be tempted by the carrot of export but stung by the overnight assassination of our EV charging. You must remember your two missing months data are the winter trough (I think) where the battery needs to be charged to 80-90pc. Also remember you will be hammered by every distributor for gas especially when the price finally stops being gifted to distributors by the cap (currently holding UP the price per kWh). They also have one of the highest standing charges around? Good luck in July. Looks like you will do as well as possible.
Thanks for your comment. Most appreciated
This was an interesting video on the subject matter. What I find on this and other analysis know one seem to take into consideration the efficiency/losses of the battery storage system (which can be as high as 40%) The losses can wipe out the benefits of charging your battery storage overnight.
The thing that people with Flux are often missing is that they should charge up home batteries to a maximum (100% for LFP otherwise 80%) during the 2-5am slot then discharge them down to 10% during the 4-7pm slot. You might think you should keep some charge for your own use later in the evening, but so long as you avoid importing during 4-7pm it is better to export as much as possible and then import from the grid for your needs after 7pm. This strategy can save/make you up to £300 a year extra depending on battery size and it even works during the winter when solar generation is low. It should be possible to configure the inverter to schedule this automatically. GO can still be better if you need high EV charging overnight.
This was my thought too, but my day rate export is more than my 2-5am import ..
Flux perfect for me with 9.2kwp panels 17.2kwh battery no EV and daily use of about 10kwh.
I do a forced battery discharge of about 10kwh between 4 and 7 pm and fill the battery to 100%
between 2 and 5 am. Had my first statement from Octopus covering second half March and first half
April telling me my account had received £90 credit. Expecting this to get better as weather improves
and days get longer. Thinking I may switch back to Economy 7 for Nov to Feb.
Sounds like a plan
Are you sure it's worth selling back? According to a comment above, the round trip efficiency for their set-up is 70% which is basically like bringing the flux export price to 26.6p (70% of 38p). You're then getting about 5.6p per kwh but suffer extra wear and tear on your system.
@@rupert274 Good Question. Before I give my take on this let me emphasize that I have no expertise in this area so may be total BS - but here goes. I discharge 60% of the battery (10kwh) between 4pm and 7pm and use 30% to run the house up to 2am. (5kwh) Between 2am and 5am I draw about 16kwh which recharges the battery (15kwh) and runs the house (1kwh). The efficiency of this cycle appears to be very roughly 100%. The explanation for the discrepancy between this and the quoted 70% round trip efficiency is that this is entirely a battery round trip - the solar panels have no bearing on this. My battery manufacturer quotes a round trip efficiency for the battery as being 95%.
Octopus ‘COSY’ Tariff might suit many people. It’s 20p for two periods 4-7am AND 1-4pm. A high rate of 53p 4-7pm. 33p all other times. Standing charge 49p per day - For heat pump users only.
Combine it with their export tariff of 15p and it’s all good.
The rates vary depending on Postcode.
I noticed that tariff the other day, 2x periods of cheaper electric. A great alternative to flux, but not sure it's quite as good. Especially not for EV drivers.
@@daniel_coe I agree it will not be for everyone, but it’s a good intermediary tariff for those in our situation, ASHP, Solar & 9.5 Battery - But no EV.
In Jan & Feb predominantly, we need to charge twice as our 9.5 battery isn’t nearly enough. I need to consider adding another 9.5 battery before an EV. Or how about a V2G or V2H set up - there could be a video in that!
Enjoying your work. Thank you.
Simply brilliant - One word,
I have a 4kW panel array and an 8.2 GivEnergy battery. No EV. Moved to Flux last Sunday. So far it's been a total winner with export payments easily covering costs (incl. standing charge) and then some. I should add I've not changed my normal energy use to achieve this. In terms of the 4-7pm peak, if the battery is at (or near) 100%, I export 2-2.5 kWh leaving me plenty to cover cooking and through the night energy use. Obviously it's worth checking solcast first and not exporting if the next day looks iffy. In a nutshell, Flux is a massive improvement over my old tariff.
That sounds really good
I think this may be the one for me, we have ordered our system, hopefully it will be installed at the end of may. 6300kwp panels 6kw inverter and 9600kwh battery. We are on a fix from 2021 until September so will switch once the SEG is set up and so on…
Sounds good
I have just changed to octopus flux and you have to be already an octopus customer to do it, my figures are a family of 4 at home all day, 5,6 KW south facing panels, 5 KW battery storage no ev, my current consumption per day is averaging 3KW from grid, exporting 12 KW and current consumption in total 12 KW per day, so my figures I think is grid cost including standing charge is£1.60 per day and SEG payment at 24p is £2.28 per day. This will change in summer and drastically in winter but overall I think I'm a winner
Hi, really interesting that you are getting it to work with just a 5hwh battery. I have a 5.8kw array and 5kwh battery. Can I ask do you actually export anything during the 16.00 to 19. hours? Or just export whenever the battery is full in the daytime. My problem is evening usage fluctuates between 4 and 10kwh. I have no control on usage.
That sounds good. You're certainly winning at the moment.
Surely flux is perfect for the summer and go would be best for the winter.
I think it might be for a lot of people. The thing is with us is, the car needs 18, hot water 8, battery 8. That's 34 kWh, so probably everything we would produce in a day, with no spare to export.
Having just installed solar PV and a home battery within the last month, I would be very very interested to know how you could stay on Octopus GO tariff for import. but also get onto the 15p/Kwh for export?!?!?! When I asked Octopus, they said that on "Go", my one and only option was the risible 4.1p/Kwh SEG export tariff....
Anybody....?
Yes, Go and Intelligent only allow you to get the 4.1p export rate. I have now moved my SEG to Scottish Power, and I now get 12p export
6.4k array and 10k battery here, I switched to Flux pretty much as soon as I could once the MCS arrived. It feels like a no-brainer for the summer months. Even on a cloudy day I've got fully charged batteries by mid-day ish and then it's export all the way until I boil the kettle.... note to self, must start drinking cold-brew😂
Where on the Octopus dashboard are you folks seeing an export data read out?
It's definitely a no-brainer if you have solar and a battery, just perhaps not if you do a lot of EV miles. I suppose it depends on how much you export as well.
I don't export anything. I'd rather use the energy myself and my battery, inverter and panels are not being flogged. With Octopus Agile I can buy at the cheapest time. I hardly pay anything over 8 months of the year
Interesting post. Only recently had solar + battery installed (about 7 wks) and more importantly only started receiving export credit about 3 wks ago. I have an EV car (not much mileage) and on the GO tariff, I only have limited data so far and no idea how it will pan out over winter months. To date my NET costs (ie after exporting) for the past 3 weeks have been £24.21 CREDIT on GO but I would have received £39.51 CREDIT on the Flux tariff had I been on that instead. My gut feel is that I would be better off on Flux from Apr-Sept and on GO from Oct - Mar ie I would need to keep switching between the two twice a year. Still undecided about changing to Flux now (as we are going into sunnier days!) as its still very early days and I'm adjusting to living with Solar which means for example charging the car and putting dishwasher etc on during the day rather than overnight. Also I want to see what happens with tariffs in July first as they are expected to come down. A lot will also probably depend on how straightforward and quick it is to change tariffs!
There is a lot to learn at the beginning, and you do indeed change your habits of when things get used. I think if you do very little miles, then flux may be better. It depends really how much you export. As you say, having more data will make it easier to make an informed decision.
Sounds very very similar to my situation. My one main question is about tariff-switching as you suggest..... WILL OCTOPUS ALLOW IT??? Will they actually let you you swap tariff's multiple times per year?
Considering Octopus Go and Flux (on lower tariff than both at present but very low feed in tariff). I have just had a 4.7kw array and 4.8 kwh battery installed (plus I have an EV with 58kwh battery). No 7kw charger YET as I do about 3000 miles a year. A Zappi can use excess solar but will cost £1000 to install. House uses 3900 kwh per year (2022) of electricity with combi gas boiler so can't add electric immersion heater. Generated 18 kw today and put some in car via granny charger at 1.4 kw or 8 amps.
Thanks for sharing
@@daniel_coe Zappi quoted at £1400 to install which was a shock. Using granny charger and set car to charge via charge routine only on sunny days but at least its free electric. I got over 15% in 3 hours on a 58kwH battery today.
@@RB-lt8kt I think with your mileage a granny is a far more logical solution than any kind of 7Kw charger, just not worth it.
@@Joe-lb8qn Cheers I think that as well.
I had 8 solar panels and 9.5kWh batteries installed just before Christmas. I have an EV but don't need to charge it more than once a week, some times 3 times in 2 weeks with the smaller charge window at night.. I switched from the Go Tariff and now the longer days are here, seem to be spending around £1.50 a day on electricity. But I'm also exporting at the higher rates. My last 2 bills seem confusing as I have 3 different electricity charges for short periods, which is odd! However, for the 10 days I exported electricity in April, I received £7.17 in export payment.
In a weeks time, I should have a full picture of import and export charges. However, the app seems to indicate that I am getting as little as 3p a day for export. Despite sometimes average between 0.2 and 1.5 kWh export during most of the day after the house battery has charged.
I guess I'll switch back to the Go tariff in the autumn.
If you are doing low miles in am EV then I think flux can work for you. Especially if you export some power as well
I moved to Octopus and was directed to Flux tariff as I have solar and batteries. I have huawai batteries and have been told that these are not compatible to accept the charge overnight. Only Givenergy batteries??
It’s an interesting tariff, but probably not cost efficient for me at the moment.
I’m on Octopus tracker 20p today and fixed export at 15p. I exported 4kwh today between 11.30 - 17.30.
Full battery and cooking done, will keep me running overnight.
Flux would leave me with a shortfall as I’m trying to minimise grid usage and battery cycles.
Today I’ve used 13kwh, 12 of which has been covered by battery and solar.
Yes, I don't think it fits all people. Just wish the export rates on Go were better. Although I don't think we export a lot anyway, we'll see this summer now that we have 2x EVs and the hot water to heat via the Eddi
I'm on Octopus tracker too and I'm happy with it. Just had solar installed last week and I've started looking into the figures. I didn't think it was possible to be on Tracker and be paid for the export. This might be the best option for me, pls explain how you've done that.
Just started on the Flux tariff. Interested on your thoughts. I am retired and have 10KwH of battery capacity and a 5Kw inverter. I also have a plug in hybrid vehicle, and most of mileage is covered by its capacity, I do not have any fast charging so I use the "granny charger" to replenish my batteries. I will be doing analysis to see how I have benefitted by moving from a regular domestic tariff. One thing I notice that your figures and also the figures of most providing similar information is that the lifespan of the batteries is not taken into consideration.
The batteries in the house are under warranty for 10 years, I believe the new ones are 12 years. So I expect to at least get that lifespan out of them. If they go wrong after that, so be it. They would have paid for themselves, I suppose by then anyway.
What about people like me who have panels for years on the FIT system?
If you mean export, then never come off of fits as long as you are still getting that great guaranteed export rate. You can still have a lot of these new tariffs, but just not the export side of things.
Flux in the summer and Go in the Winter!
I only recently got my solar panels, batteries and EV so I don’t have as much data. But we have an EV, a PHEV and a home battery to charge overnight (in winter). So the higher Flux overnight rate and reduced lower rate hours would cost us a lot more - and if I needed to charge the EV a lot, you just can’t do it in 3 hours. According to Octopus Compare, Go is cheaper than Flux by £74 in the last month (import only), I’d have to be exporting a lot to make up that difference
Yes, I love the export prices of it, but I don't think it works for all, like higher mileage EV drivers. We also need about 8 kWh a day to heat our hot water.
Is your car or charger supported by intelligent? That seems the best to charge EVs and batteries in enough time.
@@derongalloway good question. Can't currently have Intelligent Octopus, I have an MG4 and a Zappi. The rumour is always that the Zappi is close to being added...
I think you are accurate in your assessment. My main objective was to avoid using On Peak and I think may be an argument for Flux from May to September if you can be bothered to keep checking your use. I have been on Go at 4p/14p which comes to an end on 2/6/23 and I fee Intelligent with 6 hours @ 7.5p to charge 20kw battery and an EV, perhaps 30kwh , 3 times a week off peak is the way forward. I might export to BG AT 6p
My big saving will be avoiding 41p on peak
Another alternative is Tracker. I’ve been on it since February and it’s reopening in July. In the midlands today Gas is 3.45p and electricity is 15.61p. I’m also on the fixed export which is 15p.
It would be interesting if you added a small wind turbine to the figures. They can produce power at night.
Would love one, 24hr of power, if it was windy!
What tariff (for battery and solar) would you say is good for someone at home most if not all day if this isn’t it?
Hi, just had solar panels installed eight weeks back. Your video is very informative but there are lots of points to grasp and decide on what tariff to go for export. Just had all necessary documents from the installers which my supplier (Octopus) will need to set the ball rolling. I have subscribed and 'liked' to your channel and hopefully will contact you for further advice if it's ok with you. Many thanks for uploading this useful video👌👌
Thanks for sharing and subscribing.
We've been Octopus customers for many years, they are such a forward thinking company. Flux may possibly benefit me, having plenty of battery storage. However my main concern is the increased cycling of the batteries and what that may do to their longevity? 🤔 I'd appreciate advice on this. 👍
I suppose it depends if you want to export at the peak export rate time to earn some extra pennies. I do believe the batteries are under warranty for at least 10 years and a certain number of cycles. The choice is really yours.
LFP batteries will last 10-15 years with a full cycle each day. By that time there will be cheaper bigger batteries on the market (maybe sodium based) so it will be time to upgrade anyway.
I'm with OutfoxtheMarket economy 7 and my dayrate is 29.86p per kwh while Economy 7 rate is 18.33 from 12am to 7am. There is a 50.15p daily service charge in my area. There is no export facility from my battery or solar. So I charge my 6.5 kw battery from the grid from 12:30 am to 3:00 am it then trickles until my heat pumpkicks in for water heating first thing and then usually recharges during the day to around 50% covering the evenings usage until recharge at night. Although there is no export facility I have an excellent Feed in Tarrif as my system was installed at the highaest FIT rate about 11 years ago and my FIT generation tariff is now around 70.15p per kwh as it is inflation linked. Another bonus is that the company only deals with green suppliers from wind and solar farms.
70p is brilliant
@@daniel_coe I was lucky to squeeze in at the ending of the high FIT. My system paid for itself in around 8 years (I also had a Renewable Energy grant which paid for my heat pump installation in 6 1/2 years). At pesent rates I usually get around £2500+ for my FIT at present. As the Times said at the time it was the best financial investment I ever made.
How did you gather export data based on time of day. Basically how do I gather export data for my off-peak an peak times. I do not want to do it manually for every export entry.
You can download CSV data from the Octopus dashboard online account area. Then you'd have to filter it in Excel for the times you want.
If discharge of panel at 4-7pm u get history profit against expert at oter times
As I see it Flux is only a Summer tariff, switch back to Go or intelligent for the winter.
That could be the best thing to do. I'm just not sure about doing it myself yet, I think I need some more data to see if swapping EVs during the week would mean we could cut costs of Go and move to Flux. I just don't think I would still have much excess to export to get the benefit of flux. Just wish they would increase the export price on Go. 4p is horrible compared to these newer tariffs.
@@daniel_coe people on Go or Intelligent are generally Net importers. I have an EV and still managing to get Flux to work for me. I only drive 20miles a day for 3 days then the weekends can vary (split 7.3kw array E/W together with a PW) with the current weather im exporting by 8am, still waiting on Tesla switching on the export function of the PW then I should be in profit between £5-8 a day.
The way the tariff is setup you’re better charging the EV between 2-5am and charging the battery 🔋 to 100% to maximise your export during the day.
Great video, as I am trying to ascertain whether with this Flux rate whether it is worth increasing my battery storage from 5 to 10kwh, which costs £3k.
Yes, I have been thinking the same, I wouldn't need it for summer. But my battery shortfall over the winter was so low in £ it didn't justify the cost based on a battery lasting 10 years. Perhaps batteries will get cheaper once we have cheaper EVs coming from China, which may drive battery prices down. I think I'll wait a year or two and see.
Interesting. Why not use Flux in the summer and switch to Go in the winter? Just wondering.
We just seem to use most of the power we generate and running the numbers we were better off on Go with the 2x EVs. Although renewal on Go is soon, we'll see what happens. It is currently 9p overnight. Hopefully, that will drop again this summer.
Thanks Daniel - I have just had solar installed so looking at the best export rate, BUT i also have a PHEV, so it was really interesting to see your flux rate data. One of my main concerns with the Flux tariff is in winter, when you are generating very little solar, you will have to pay a ~50% PREMIUM on your unit rate during the peak period, when we are likely to be cooking dinner, etc (with an energy hungry induction hob), compared to a bog standard tariff. I think I might need to look elsewhere for an old-fashioned Economy 7 tariff import and sign up to Scottish Power's stand-alone export account (which pays a flat rate of 12p/kWh). Any thoughts??
I have moved to Intelligent Octopus and Scottish Power for the 12p export rate. Can you get on an Octopus EV tariff with a PHEV?
@@daniel_coe Interesting! I have a PHEV and charger which are not compatible with Intelligent Octopus, but i could use Go! (which gives 4 hours overnight at 9.5p/kWh).
OutFoxThe Market also do a good E7 rate - see my recent post. Although I have no EV at the moment I only use 3 of the 7 cheap rate hours to recharge my domestic battery which would leave 4 hrs for EV charging (at 18.33 per kwh). This supplier is regularly quoted as the cheapest in the market (at least when I try comparison sites), but I have a good feed inn tariff as there is no export facility on this tariff. Another bonus to my green credentials is that the company only deals with green suppliers from wind and solar farms.
Great info. My array will be installed next week. I'm picking up tips from the comments here. I'm with Octopus already but how easy is it to flit between go and fkux? I gave no EV by the way. Cheers Tony
*Flux sorry
I think it's quite simple once you are an octopus customer. I believe you just need to be on one of the tariffs at least a month before switching back again. There shouldn't be any notice period on either of those tariffs.
We have 4KW of PV and I am in the process of buying an AC inverter and battery (probably about 15KWh). I'd like to pick up one of the smart Octopus tariffs but we don't have (or even plan to have) an EV or a heat pump... and we have an existing FIT which pays 19p per KWh on GENERATION. I don't really want to give up the FIT but it seems like I cannot keep the FIT while getting cheap overnight electricity to charge the batteries during the winter.
I can understand why Octopus may have set things up this way but have I missed something fundamental so allowing me to have my cake and to eat it?
I don't know if you can get around it by not touching the FIT setup but have separate panels for newer tariffs if you have the roof space. Perhaps ask someone like octopus energy.
Hi Daniel, I called OE about two hours ago. The customer service agent said he would send me a link to GO and Flux and that all was explained there. I asked him specifically if we could keep our FIT, surrendering the deemed export. He said "we will move you to Octopus".
The link was to something I had aleady seen and it said we could keep the generation section of opur FIT and that the deemed export would end up under Octopus.
So I sent OE a reply email stating what I understood the customer service agent to say vs. what the FAQ's say and asking for a definitive answer. I've had no reply so far.
You should also tell people you are also making £50 every time someone uses your code. Otherwise it comes across like your doing them a favour and in fact you are also benefitting
He is doing them a favour! Taking the time to post the info and they get £50 too..
Hi there I emailed Octopus with the referral code and they can not find anything with that. They are asking me for your name and address for some reason
That's a shame. I'll chase them up. I do have another code Use this link to sign up to Octopus - share.octopus.energy/anew-grove-52