I just wanna say I’ve been watching all of these retrospectives and they are fantastic. Super high quality, and you have a soothing voice. Thank you for putting out content on one of my favorite games :)
My friends from FFXIV and myself came back to FFXI recently and have been loving it. The changes made with this expansion has made this a fantastic experience for our team. 😁
Other than the coalition assignments gatekeeping part of the early story, Adoulin really flows until it rushes the ending. The abrupt ending is still touching, though not as impactful as it should have been. I'm sad we missed out on so many things they were setting up, like August's unique weapons and the end boss's hinted ties to the Zilart (something possibly confirmed during a developer live stream that shows concept art of the end boss and Balamor merged with Ultima and Omega weapons.) The depth of some of the side quests shows how developed the city and its people are compared to some of the older areas. I really felt the bond created between the player and Arciela was deep and personal in a way even the previous heroines never quite reached. Finishing Seekers is something I'm so glad I retruned to the game to do.
I use t play this back in 2004. I gotta say your videos have been really good nostalgia and information on story that I missed to experience. A big thank you for this.
Kinda nice to see Matsui-P get some recognition (albeit indirectly) after all the hate he had endure following the Adoulin expansion "gear reset" lol. The quality of life changes that enabled new players to experience FFXI's stories without the huge time commitment it used to require is a great change that'll be remembered positively.
I know the gear reset must have been infuriating. But it's good to see that the devs have tried very hard to make all the old ultimate weapons as relevant as possible. I know Ambuscade weapons killed a lot of incentive to strategize, but I was talking to someone the other day who was trying to put together a gear set for self SC with a Mythic to out-damage his Ambuscade Weapon. Great to see old gear being relevant.
@@vicenarian340 Yeah. It felt devastating at first because grinding for Ultimate Weapons was what kept most of of the community around (including myself) since the process became casual-friendly crica 2010-2013. Thankfully, Matsui quickly responded by reassuring the community that RME weapons will be upgradable in the near future (contrary to his original vision). I still login in during free days to finish my Relic Scythe and Greatsword. Just got them both done during this last free period :) Which server do you play on? I moved to Bahamut because my home Ragnarok is a ghost town.
These have all been great! I'm hyped for the Rhapsodies review to come. As an early player that dropped out around Abyssea then returned in 2020, it was both nostalgic and novel! I was really surprised that Adoulin was even made, then when I found out there was even MORE story content, it just blew my mind.
Whatever the exact specifics on their rushed ending of SoA, it is still a fact that FFXI bankrolled XIV and all of their other projects for years. FFXI was like a lifeline for the company of SE, and it was their highest earning game overtime until XIV finally overtook it recently due to sheer popularity I, too, really love Seekers of Adoulin. Two town themes. Lots of awesome world music. Beautiful zones and awesome new monsters and crafting recipes. Also with the addition of Ionis, we finally have all 4 elemental crystals represented by city/region buffs. Water = Signet Fire = Sanction Wind = Sigil Earth = Ionis
Your point about the crystal elements being represented is fascinating. You're right, FFXI did pay for FFXIV. The thing I don't understand is, why cut the project if it's lucrative? If ARR took a lot of staff away from FFXI after it came out, that's understandable. But information on the developers between SoA and ARR is really hard to find.
@@vicenarian340 Square Enix's corporate office is notoriously stupid. This is true as far back as even pre-merger, since they had bankrupted Square, and Enix's executives still agreed to basically trade identity and capital for IPs (it's almost more accurate to say that Enix bought Square). Sadly, over the last two decades, it hasn't gotten much better, and while I don't know the actual specifics, I imagine XI was seen as stable enough that they could give it less. Ultimately they were right. It's still going on fumes, still generating almost pure profit and XIV is now the powerhouse of the cell.
@@SirVyre This is reminding me of the disappointment I felt regarding the insanity surrounding the development of FFXIII and FFXV. I even remember SE not having saved anything from the first 2 KH games IIRC. So to remaster them, they needed to remake them lol. This makes me sad for FFXI. I love where the game is now, and it's one of my favorites of all time. But they horribly mistreated the IP over it's life.
They are indeed stupid. Why is play online still a confusing mess. Why isnt 11 linked with your 14 account why isnt 11 backwards compatible with next gen systems that have 14 when dawntrail was first shown and the 24 man raid was shown to be ff 11 based i decided to jump back in to 11 i was willing to pay for the official version of 11 but omg play online was a nightmare i didnt set it up way back in the ps2 era my friends did it for me so i bever knew how i ended up giving up and just jumping on a private server cats eye there are a lot of people playing 14 that either really miss that old school mmo feel 11 has or wants to find it since they are tired of 14s more modern style if access to 11 was easier they could make more money @SirVyre
I totally watched all these out of order? But I really enjoyed hearing a newer players perspective on this, it also helps me with how I write my guides for XI here.
One thing that makes XI so special is that even though a lot of the old "best" rewards have long since been transcended by modern gear, the developers have allowed a lot of that old gear to be upgraded forward to modern standards. Even one of the first endgame drops ever made, the Defending Ring dropped by King Behemoth, is extremely sought-after. The game even rewards returning players with needing fewer upgrade materials for their job-specific gear (such as Artifact and Relic) depending on how far they took it back in their respective eras. Even stuff like the High-Tier Mission Battlefields offer fantastic rewards, incentivizing players old and new alike to try those fights out at a proper difficulty level. Anything made obsolete by future patches has been solved one way or another. The devs deserve praise for how well they've balanced the game after more than 2 decades of service.
Having always been interested in XI, but never getting around to playing it, I must say I am very grateful for you making these videos. I now watched all of your reviews (skipping over the story sections for spoiler reasons), and it left me excited to find out for myself what this game, with all of its expansions, has to offer. I don't think I will play it anytime soon, because getting into such a large and complicated game isn't really compatible with my life right now (also I am still a bit burned out from just how long it took to finish XIVs main story), but I do think that with all these quality of life improvements added to later versions of the game, it would be a very enjoyable experience nowadays (exploration actually looks more fun than in XIV imo) - and for those who wish to see the old hardcore experience preserved, there will still be Horizon, so everybody wins. But yeah, while the time investment, and also the monthly subscription, are definitely somewhat of a hurdle to overcome with this game, it's still a shame that it occupies the outsider position in the franchise even to this day; so I think that content like this is especially important to introduce the game to players who otherwise might have never even considered getting into it. And I do think there is hope. After all, a couple of years ago, a lot of FF fans also denounced XIV as "not a real FF game", and then came Shadowbringers, and everyone realized just what a great narrative experience they were missing out on, and nowadays, this MMO is seen as one of the cornerstones of the modern FF experience. So good luck to Van'adiel, and I hope to visit it myself someday.
Thank you for the feedback, this is a huge encouragement! Just to let you know, I write the story sections of each video just covering the set ups and the premise. So they don't spoil anything major. That having been said, I went into these expansions 100% blind, and that might be the best way of experiencing them. So no shame for avoiding the story sections. FFXI is in my opinion, one of the very best in the series. Unfortunately, it's also the least commonly played among FF fans, as you've pointed out. I grew up watching FF reviews and that's what got me into playing FF in the first place. It always irritated me to see that there were no proper reviews for modern FFXI though. So, I'm hoping these videos do for many people what they seemed to have done for you; make people aware of how incredible the game is. It's awesome to hear that you're considering the game for when your schedule permits! It has an absolutely brutal learning curve, so brace yourself for that lol. Feel free to reach out to me at any point if you have any more questions!
Nah my guy this was the death of 11 the 75 era was the peak and you are right about the dedication it took to play the game but the sense of victory and accomplishment for the time put in showed up literally on the screen through the growth of your gameplay with the jobs and the gear you wore it really meant something to have things and to be good at your job not that you couldn't be good without the best gear but when you were good at something you'd be rewarded with the stuff that would make you better by all those in your LS because they all believed in your ability to help the party alliance and LS now you don't need to be good at all which is most likely because of the fact that most people who play now have never played 75era and only know the new era like you said in your video nothing wrong with that but it took guts and grit to play this game it was by far one of the hardest MMO out of all-time so much so that people would cry in town about it before going over to Warcraft and coming back saying how much easier it was salute to all of the vets from 2002 to 2009 we are legends my friends take pride in knowing that guys and to the new generation thanks for keeping our legacy alive and I'll see you all on Horizon XI Heroes of Vanadiel 75cap is back baby WOOT ❤
To be more specific, it was actually Abyssea that destroyed the lvl75 era, not SoA. This expansion was what destroyed the lvl. 99 era. I do want to address some points that you bring up though. The game now has some of the hardest content that FFXI has ever had. So few people have beaten the v25 Odyssey NMs or have cleared the tVR Master Trials. Many people who have clears on this content have been playing since the 75 era too. The level of skill that this content requires is just flat out insane. This is evidenced by the fact that the most recent Master Trials, Oathsworn Blade and Wings of War, have yet to be cleared, despite being out for several months now. Most of your talking points still apply to FFXI's endgame. It just no longer applies to the early and mid game. You're right about this change, it was devastating to many in the community. But you're wrong in that, those elements haven't completely gone away. And most people I've encountered who say that it's gone away have never played modern endgame. Thanks for the feedback! And like you, I'm happy that there are certain private servers that keep the lvl 75 community structure alive.
Adoulin was SO good as a mix of both story and gameplay elements. I love the Reaves and Yumcax gives me PTSD even as a newer player. I screamed when I saw it as a B-Rank hunt in FFXIV Endwalker. They also just recently added Leafkin as a mob in one of the new Varient Dungeons and I was just squealing with delight.
I have only played a bit of ARR. I have no doubt, when I do a proper play through of FFXIV, I'll see dozens of things that will make me want to boot up FFXI lol.
Seekers of Adoulin is incredible. Best music, best heroine (sorry Prishe), and really cool zones. It's really a shame so many players, myself included, moved to FFXIV around the time this came out. Personally, I just got bored of Abyssea and quit mid-2012 to wait for FFXIV. I played Adoulin for the first time in 2022 and, to my surprise, it became my favorite expansion.
It really is a gem of an expansion. I was pretty harsh on it's final act, but it's still probably my second favorite expansion. There is so much to love about it.
Oh man, I really like your FF11 content. I didn't get to play it unfortunately when it came out (didn't have a good enough computer) but my friends did and I watched them play from time to time. These videos are excellent!
@@vicenarian340 I just might! I have taken a short break from FFXIV until the new expansion and I’ve been so curious to play FFXI. I just need to figure out how to set it up but I saw a few guides online that help with that! 😂
Great review. And yeah - discovering the systems introduced here are what made my time with the game bareable... For 2 full weeks on the free trial the unity system was unaccessible and i didnt understand trusts. When i dove in and purchased it i started reading guides and realised just how much progress i could make and - yeah - it was game changing.
Truth be told, I have the sense that the free trial of FFXI does more harm than good. I'm glad you played through the free month to see a little more of what FFXI's early-mid game is truly like. I've been patiently waiting on your FFXIV video! Any idea on when it will be coming out?
Back when I played I remember the mercenary content being mandatory for progressing through Treasures of Aht Urghan's story, including needing to reach max mercenary rank to get to the end of it. They must have changed that requirement at some point.
Wow, that must have been really difficult! Nowadays, you're required to unlock assault, but Assault and Besieged participation aren't required. I think this was an attempt to 'modernize' the ToAU experience, which I do appreciate. But there are a couple lines of dialogue that are a bit jarring to read due to these changes.
well researched video as usual. SoA was indeed a transformative era of the game and very welcome addition because at that point we as players weren't even sure we would get another expansion at all. but it also showed us that XI still had a lot more to give if it had the chance. funnily enough i think QoL takes away from memorability. like i can barely remember the layout of Adoulin because you can find a waypoint almost everywhere. the HP tele and trusts are extremely welcome tho and i can't imagine playing the game without them anymore
It's always great to hear from you, Arciele! I had a quick question, do you know of any place (in game or out of game) that I can learn more about the lore of the Naakuals? I loved their introduction, and I want to dig into their lore a bit more.
@@vicenarian340 i dont recall there being a lot of info on them out there. if its not in the mission cutscenes already, you might be able to find a bit more in the Celennia library.. at least for the first 6
First and foremost, I think that all of your videos are absolutely incredible and I respect the passion you have put into them, it really shines through and I enjoyed them all a lot. That said, I really feel like I have had an experience that differs quite a bit, and when talking to many others is common among a certain segment of the crowd involved with FFXI in some way. I want to dispel the notion that FFXI was "so hardcore", or took too much time to play. It had aspects that were hardcore, the devs at times also liked to troll, but you couldn't find more more than a handful of examples like that if you tried. And like any mmo, it had things that took a while (you can wait a total of 45 minutes just to run a few dungeons in FFXIV, or spend a month farming a relic), more in relation to what real life goals are, but the design philosophy was nowhere near the same as what games like Final Fantasy 14 or even modern FFXI are like now. FFXI was meant to be a world to live in, NOT rush through. When people say they could have never played FFXI because it would take too long to do ALL of the content, they are right, but for the wrong reasons. Back then there wasn't this "rush to end game" mentality where now-a-days games suck until you get to end game. The game STATED at level one. I wouldn't expect anyone who wasn't there to know this but I remember being in town seeing people getting complimented for pieces of gear they had on. Stuff that you could only get by doing high level things. Stuff like that was praised and as a young adventurer in the world you would see that and hear the stories and know that there was still so much to do and experience. And when you got there, you could reflect on the things you did, the friends you met along the way, and know that it was worth the climb, and that not two peoples stories would be the same. Player driven content was a major factor in that, where as now a days if its not "glamour" related or housing related, or on the other end of the spectrum one off hard dance fights, people in some other MMO's completely don't get it. And that doesn't mean that they are wrong, because what they have can be fun too (habbo hotel is an old example of this actually), but it doesn't mean they were right either just because they outnumbered those that did get it. When those MMO elements were stripped away, some people cheered and wondered why they were ever there in the first place, without realizing that maybe they weren't made for them. Maybe they were made for other who just so happen to be part of an audience that doesn't make as much business sense to market to anymore because they aren't big enough. I'm an old player, who also happens to also play FFXIV and likes it for what it is, a completely different experience. I have tried so many times to get back in to FFXI because like you I wanted to experience parts of the story that happened after I left, but I end up quitting out of boredom EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Why would I play a game that now wishes it was FFXIV, that has over 20 year old graphics, too many convoluted systems to count, with most old content outside the story not being worth it (ESPECIALLY doing it alone), with a sub that is about the cost of FFXIV's. (I pay my retail sub to help keep the game alive.) All that to say that I have since gone and played a newer old school private server and with some graphics updates, I have found myself LOVING it with my limited time. Almost ALL of the negative talking points went completely to the way side, because quite frankly they are just wrong. I maybe play twice to three times a week, and I haven't had almost of the problems that people have cried about. The game has half the population of retail yet there are ALWAYS parties, there are ALWAYS people shouting to help others, there are ALWAYS people buying things off the auction house, there is PLENTY of content, and I have yet to scratch the surface on running out of things to do. I can do it on my own time, and I have yet to rarely have problems doing so. And its funny because on the rare occurrence that im not able to really tackle the thing I planned on doing, I either do something else or put the game down. If people can put FFXIV down and play other games or go outside, why can't they do that for FFXI when it has its own down time? Like yeah getting places may take longer, but now I actually have a connection with the world. I plan out trips like its an ACTUAL adventure, and each time you get back to town you feel like your experiences have helped you grow. I never feel rushed, there are no dailies(thank goooooood), combat is engaging if you are utilizing whats there(magic bursting, skill chaining, executing other timely strategies with mobs etc.), and literally EVERYTHING feels so much more rewarding. It felt so much better in fact that sometimes its actually hard for me to play FF14. Leveling jobs in dungeons, or posing afk in Limsa is just SO boring in comparison. Same goes with things like gearing systems too. Im starting to notice where 14 really should be taking notes from the past. Lastly I just want to confirm that this is not my imagination by using the examples of OSRS, Classic WOW, and Diablo 2 remaster and private, which are all examples of games doing MUCH better than their modern counterparts. Im not trying to make any claims about FFXI vs retail or XIV in particular, but I am trying to say that the segment of the market that I was mentioning earlier is STILL alive and funny enough now growing. On top of that survival games are nothing but grind fests and they are more popular than MMO's. I just want to say again that I loved your videos, and that I would love to see one on the rhapsodies, and VR storyline, I just saw how passionate you were and in turn wanted to share my words of passion with you.
Thank you for sharing! While I disagree with some things you brought up, reading your comment has deepen my perspective on the game, and it's awesome to see appreciation for FFXI from a different perspective. I'd like to hear your thoughts on some points: Modern FFXI allows players to play through the story and casual content on their own, but it still strictly enforces social play if you're wanting to do any content aside from casual stuff. Just getting to max level (mlvl 50) could take 600 hours with a solid group, and just about impossible without a group. Sortie, Odyssey, Dynamis D, and Master Trials all require groups of real people if you want to make meaningful progress. As for accomplishments, making a Prime weapon takes about as long as making a Relic back in the RotZ/COP days from what my LS has said. In fact, depending on your job, building any of the 5 ultimate weapons will forever elevate your ability to execute on your job's potential. Each of them take months to build, the latter stages heavily enforces real player collaboration. Players still do this because of how monumental of an improvement they can get out of it. I guess to summarize, what are your thoughts on the post-story content of modern FFXI? I never played in the classic era, but when I hear about the positives of the classic era, it doesn't sound too dissimilar from what modern progression to end-game is like.
@@vicenarian340 Yeah absolutely, and I just want to clarify again before answering that I normally end up dropping before reaching end game, so just being honest I have experience in some things but not all. To your first point though, I take it back to this mentality of "Rush to End Game", which personally I just hate in video games. When I see that, it signals to me that the systems prior probably aren't worth the time, they weren't thought through, or they were just completely invalidated. On one hand I can completely see why they did it, on the other, I think completely negating every system you had prior, every unique piece of gear you had prior, and removing the nuanced player driven content setup that was laid, takes away far too much vs what they have added. I think a simpler solution would have been to just merge the servers more. Make them more populated, and make a system that upgrade classic gear pieces instead of making them fully irrelevant hence killing the content, AND player driven content. ex/ I think that maybe lvl 1-99 in a single day is a bit excessive and kills a lot. Now honestly, It's probably good that the main story could be solo'ed. I actually think it's kinda cool that you can bring in characters from the story into the fights, I just wish that maybe they had the foresight to give you specific team members so the immersion is there, with the option to bring in more party members. That said, I think looking at some of the criticisms you had with the stories of earlier expansions came about because though SE wanted their MMO story to pop and be better, that wasn't really the "main" focus. It's focus was more on little details that were involved with player driven content. Something as simple as the climb up the mountain in attohwa chasm would cause funny or angry situations depending on the group of people. COP starts off with a lower level difficulty even though many had max lvl jobs, which in turn allowed new players to get help and start with linkshell mates earlier. In fact some of the fights like Absolute Virtue went to far, but they were originally trolls by the devs. Yet the communities and pure uniqueness of system hacking that people came up with in what can be considered borderline war meetings is nuts. And i'm not sure if it still happens but just the way people acted towards each other in the open world and in doing any single small task was unique to FFXI alone. I played a bunch of different MMO's at the time trying them out and FFXI stuck with me for that simple fact alone. No PVP except in the yearly tournaments, and forced empathy through hard knocks difficulty. Not even really "hard" per say, just that death had a consequence that actually stung a little(or to be fair a lot if your home point wasn't close lol.) Now on the topic of weapons, I actually had this same debate with a buddy that's in my discord who got me to try retail again the last time. I am not usually a fan of Ilvl in games. I don't like it in FF14 because it feels lazy, and it sticks out like a sore thumb if you have played any bit of classic FFXI. Going back to the war meeting thing, this game has a treasure trove of unique builds and strategies that you can pull off depending on who you're partying with, the gear you have, skills you have leveled, and the mobs you're fighting. Sometimes even the day and weather play a part if memory serves correct. But with simply picking the highest Ilvl gear, it completely kills the player driven uniqueness to the battle content. I remember at one point with gear switching on redmage having 5 different gear sets. One for physical damage, one for defense, one for INT based skills, one for MND based skills, and one blended general. That's the extreme end, and gear switching wasn't required but it added a whole new layer and depth of creativity to the game play. I would literally go to sky with another RDM and we figured out that if we both subbed WAR, gear switched, and focused on either defense or damage that we could EASILY duo farm materials for Sky pops. JUST US. It also always made us more versatile in different parties. We wouldn't have had that if the game simply made a "this is the best weapon for this class because these specific stats" which in turn also kinda forces a certain gameplay style. FFXI really wasn't meant to be pigeon holed, as much as some people like to claim it was. Yeah there are mid maxers like every MMO, but even then it was for specific fights. If you wanted to mid max, different gear types suited different things. That also made getting the different gear types via unique quests, mobs that were in a specific spots, or maybe were NM's/BCNM's etc. worth doing. And the devs were genius for that because it made the lower levels that much more exciting. you could find the beetle NM that dropped the Neckchopper and as a Warrior that great axe would carry you for 20 levels (a good while), giving that item some really significant meaning to you, then selling gave you a bittersweet pay out. And at lower levels they even specifically designed it so that depending on what camp you were going to or what mission you were on, they assumed your general level and placed NM's and mobs in zones near or around that you could farm decent drops from. This meant that if you were smart you could actually act like a real adventurer in that you knew it was going to be a trek, so you should hit that outpost quest, farm that spell, kill the NM for that piece of gear, complete that quest, finish that mission, and level to "x" all in one trip. And ill end this point by saying that not everything needs to be a grind for grinds sake. FFXI classic for sure had its grinds, but like the neckchopper example, it also had its own little wins here and there that didn't take forever, but if you just explored, it would feel incredible, and like a truly alive world. Lastly to answer your last question I'm going to loop back around to the "end game" point I made. I'm glad you used the term "casual content" because so much of classic FFXI really is casual, with the key difference being player interaction, and in turn player driven content which isn't even always needed. There is a lot you can solo, and there is even Beast Master which was always a solo job. And I know this is still viable today because the classic server in mind that I am thinking about actually released their numbers in December and this SINGLE server had just about half the accounts that retail is said to have, given that retail still has about 120k subbed accounts. So to answer your question endgame is probably fun, people including friends say it is, but getting there is just super boring to me. At least with FFXIV the build up to endgame is more enticing. Retail FFXI before end game just feels flat and cut out (unless you are someone who likes solo play) minus its story, it just doesn't help that the graphics have aged and there is no voice acting. Again going back to my original comment, the current game doesn't represent the philosophy the games foundation was originally built on. One that many people myself included, really resonated with. Adventurers banding together and taking on and exploring a second world together.
@@Ephremjlm1 Thank you so much for this write up! I've learned a lot about the shift in design philosophy that I really didn't know. I think there are some key things in end game, particularly around min-maxing gear in FFXI that you may have been misinformed about, but this comment has been really eye-opening. Thank you for the write up!
Love the vid. Could be wrong, but I think it's pronounced "Ad-doh/dow-lin" which is more of a vowel sound similar to "ouch" rather than a hard "oo". It's a softer prounciation more related to French.
So many people talk about the past and how much better things were in the old days, but I just have to insist, that to me, FF11 has become a whole new world with the introduction of Geomancer. Considering how FF14 will likely never add that job, FF11 will always have something that I won't get anywhere else
The entire job system of FFXI is truly something special, but jobs like summoner, blue mage, and geomancer really push the limit of how different jobs within the same system can be from others. Thanks for watching!
Arciela feels like a blueprint for Alisaie. The final dungeon for this expansion is amazing. I didnt use the teleport that takes you close to the final boss. I properly traversed through the dungeon from the entrance. Had to do 3 reives along the way and solved multiple puzzles. I feel like Seekers of Adoulin wouldnt have been made if FFXIV 1.0 was successful.I think they realized that FFXI players who left for FFXIV would return to FFXI after the failed launch and decided to fill the gap (while waiting for 2.0) with another expansion.
That's an interesting perspective on the relationship between SoA and the failed XIV launch. I completely agree with you on the final dungeon of the expansion! Truth be told, I must have missed the telepoint option, I was just excited to trek through that zone. I haven't played enough FFXIV to compare Arciela and Alisaie, but I've hear that both her and her brother turn out to be great characters. I look forward to returning and seeing FFXIV's Hydaelyn/Zodiark story through.
While I'm sure this was a good expansion, It did come around the time when I, as well as most of my close family and friends who used to play the game, had already checked out from FFXI. I was still subscribed and would jump on once in awhile, but I was no longer invested in the game's story, progression, or end game. Truth be told after wings of the goddess the game kind of sort of ended for me. I would still subscribe regularly and jump on to play with some friends once in a while, reach new level cap, or just to experience the world, but my investment / commitment to the game was significantly less than it had been before. I was playing Guild Wars 2 at the time, waiting for FFXIVs eventual re release. I played through Seekers mostly passively and out of necessity to unlock some things, but I never paid much attention to its story or world building. Based on your video it looks like there was something here to enjoy for those who were still fully invested in the game, but the signs were there that SE wanted to wind down FFXI as well.
Horizon XI is one of the greatest things to happen to FFXI. What the Dev team is trying to do with Horizon is truly something monumental, and I'm excited to see how they handle ToAU and the mythic weapons. Having said that, I do deeply enjoy Retail FFXI, and it's blend of old and new make it really special. The end game of FFXI has a thriving social community that is VERY welcoming to new players, and certain accomplishments like hitting max lvl (mlvl 50) or clearing V25 NMs seem impossibly difficult. Not to mention the hundreds of hours of casual content (like the great story) that you can play through at your own pace. While FFXI isn't in it's golden era anymore, it's incredible to live in a time where both, horizon and retail are available at the same time.
Thanks for that, I enjoy reading your thoughts. Horizon is pretty incredible. I just struggle now making any progress.Stuck on COP and I can't realistically do Dynamic or Gods because I can't play for 3 hour chunks at a time. Maybe I should go back to retail!@@vicenarian340
Hi, you've mentioned in the past people following a walkthrough that allows them to see all the story along with expansions stories. I looked but couldn't find a guide online
Try searching for the UA-cam Channel, 'Korvana'. This channel has all of FFXI's cutscenes uploaded except for the newest expansion. It's also the place I go whenever I need a refresher on FFXI lore. Hope this helps!
WotG having the best story is a wild take. I agree that the story is great, but the pacing absolutely breaks any momentum and intrigue either the nation or the overarching story builds up by stopping everything we're doing and switching to the other story. It was like watching a movie and then someone takes the controller and switches to the news. I gotta be clear, my problem is just with the pacing, I LOVE the individual stories.
I’m one of the people who really didn’t like Adoulin. I know it was the right decision to that way now, but back in the days I felt betrayed. Working for so many years to level up my job to max. And collecting gear from Dynamis, Tu’lia, Al’taieu it felt like the devs spit in my face when they raised the level cap to 99 with Abysea and introduced Item Level in Adoulin. Combined with a strange rushed story finale this expansion was my least fav when it released and it still has a sour taste in my mouth. I can appreciate it more now after 10 long years but it’s still the one I like the least. I just wish they would have had enough time to end the story they was they intended. It just doesn’t feel finished.
That's understandable. It's not an expansion for everyone. Thankfully, they've since gone a long way in keeping old gear relevant since RoV and onward, but I can understand how awful it would be to have all that work invalidated.
The main reason FF11 was not getting any real updates around the time of WotG is because at that time FF14 had just released and was a total disaster SquareEnix had pulled devs off FF11's dev tram to go and work on fixing FF14. One of the main reasons WotG was so lacking.
Great video as per usual. This morning I was working on adding music to my XI retrospective and just finished doing the music for the Abyssea section, so next up is literally Seekers of Adoulin. Timing, am I right? Hahahaha.
It's crazy that our schedules worked out that way! I'm really excited to see that video, so it's always nice to hear an update. As far as videos in the experimental era, I would absolutely love to. Unfortunately, my work schedule will be getting much heavier in about a week, so my Rhapsodies review will have to be the last one I do for a while. I plan on continuing content for FFXI, but it will have to be much slower and shorter format videos.
@@vicenarian340 I hear you in regards to the work schedule. If I didn't have to work 50+ hours every week, I'm sure my FFXI and Chrono vids would be done by now. I would say take your time with making videos, as I think Voracious and the Experimental Era deserves the same treatment you gave to the other expansions, so just do those whenever you get the time. I'll be covering both in my FFXI video (should be 3ish hours long), and based on my current pace, I think it'll be March or April when I drop that video and the Chrono one. But yes, be like the devs during the Voracious era. Better to pace yourself out and be excellent. : ) Also, when all is said and done, we should do a podcast/collab video where we rank all of the XI expansions.
I wish I had the patience to play through retail XI's content and reach this expansion. It really does sound fun, but the process to get there has been extremely boring for me (tried multiple times). Thanks for all these videos!
Im in the same boat. It was content made with major social experiences in mind and now that thats gone it drags. Yet now im playing on a private server and loving every second.
i would dissagress when u say 11 was more enjoyable after seeker changes i and many more seen major drop off after. tho some might have left to other reasons like 14 alot of the playerbase left because of this changed and it did break 11 becouse of that and has never returned to the ( former glory )way it was. their might have bin more people that seen the story but they was a lot less that stayed after their were done the story
Thank you for the feedback! I wanted to address a couple things: 1. The biggest exodus of FFXI happened three years before SoA came out. People debate as to whether or not it was the changes in Abyssea or the explosion or WoW's second expansion. Either way, the big exodus of FFXI players happened several years before the changes in SoA. 2. The changes in SoA seemed to have been a reaction to the exodus of players. Trusts, fast travel, and other QoL were ways of adjusting the gaming experience with the smaller pool of players at that time. I completely understand why there were plenty of people unhappy about these quality of life changes. Many of these people have perfectly legitimate complaints with the way FFXI has been modernized. But I don't personally agree with many of the complaints. Thanks you for watching and reaching out!
Yeah, it looks that way. I remember the producer saying that if it ever gets put in maintenance mode, they'll make the game F2P, they don't want to charge for it after they stop working on it. Seeing how they haven't done that yet, I'm still holding out for another Master Trial or something lol.
I heard that FFXIV wasn't actually bad towards the end of its life cycle. I didn't play it, but for this reason, I always try to frame my comments about it in terms of 'success / failure' rather than 'good / bad'.
@@vicenarian340 That's fair and I know plenty of folks that would say if they started with 1.35 it would have been a success building from that good starting point.
@@vicenarian340 Funny enough you can go back to the old official forums, non official forums, and reddit threads and see that there were quite a few people that weren't happy when 2.0 was announced with WOW like combat and some of the systems being completely axed. I got curious and did a few random questions that sparked some debates on the Facebook group and the general consensus seems to be that the game was actually good around 1.19 -1.23b (the final patch). Though as Yoshida himself said, copying WOW was the best option financially.
Congratulate themselves for a job well done? Nah they basically abandoned it and pushed Yoshi-P out. As much as I enjoy XI and SE games they're horrible to their community. Just look at their track record of milking it's fanbase dry with their mobile lineup just to rugpull most of them only after a year or two tops.
I agree. SE did with FFXI what they do best... that is, waste perfectly good potential lol. But I think you might have missed the second have of the sentence you're quoting.
Im not sure they pushed Yoshi P out per say. Idk if you read the 20th anniversary site interview, but it didn't sound like Yoshi P ever had any real interest in FFXI and that it kinda got thrown in his lap. He even clarified that his time with everquest was only like a week before he quit. He preferred hack and slash games. He even made a comment at fan fest sounding kinda annoyed that they had to do exploratory zones again in FFXIV. Sakaguchi and Tanaka were the major brains behind FFXI and they're both gone so unfortunately the heart hasn't been there for a while.
I just wanna say I’ve been watching all of these retrospectives and they are fantastic. Super high quality, and you have a soothing voice. Thank you for putting out content on one of my favorite games :)
Thank you, I really appreciate it! It's one of my favorite games too, and I hope to see more content produced for it.
@@vicenarian340 ❤️
My friends from FFXIV and myself came back to FFXI recently and have been loving it. The changes made with this expansion has made this a fantastic experience for our team. 😁
That's awesome! I'd love to do a series on FFXIV, but if I do, it will be a long way off. Welcome back to FFXI!
Other than the coalition assignments gatekeeping part of the early story, Adoulin really flows until it rushes the ending. The abrupt ending is still touching, though not as impactful as it should have been. I'm sad we missed out on so many things they were setting up, like August's unique weapons and the end boss's hinted ties to the Zilart (something possibly confirmed during a developer live stream that shows concept art of the end boss and Balamor merged with Ultima and Omega weapons.) The depth of some of the side quests shows how developed the city and its people are compared to some of the older areas.
I really felt the bond created between the player and Arciela was deep and personal in a way even the previous heroines never quite reached. Finishing Seekers is something I'm so glad I retruned to the game to do.
I use t play this back in 2004. I gotta say your videos have been really good nostalgia and information on story that I missed to experience. A big thank you for this.
I'm glad I could help! It sounds like you were one of the veterans, how long did you play for?
Kinda nice to see Matsui-P get some recognition (albeit indirectly) after all the hate he had endure following the Adoulin expansion "gear reset" lol. The quality of life changes that enabled new players to experience FFXI's stories without the huge time commitment it used to require is a great change that'll be remembered positively.
I know the gear reset must have been infuriating. But it's good to see that the devs have tried very hard to make all the old ultimate weapons as relevant as possible. I know Ambuscade weapons killed a lot of incentive to strategize, but I was talking to someone the other day who was trying to put together a gear set for self SC with a Mythic to out-damage his Ambuscade Weapon. Great to see old gear being relevant.
@@vicenarian340 Yeah. It felt devastating at first because grinding for Ultimate Weapons was what kept most of of the community around (including myself) since the process became casual-friendly crica 2010-2013. Thankfully, Matsui quickly responded by reassuring the community that RME weapons will be upgradable in the near future (contrary to his original vision).
I still login in during free days to finish my Relic Scythe and Greatsword. Just got them both done during this last free period :)
Which server do you play on? I moved to Bahamut because my home Ragnarok is a ghost town.
Really enjoying this series, getting to see an installment I have no experience with like this is excellent keep it up!
I'm glad to hear that! Do you think you'll ever come back to finish this expansion and Rhapsodies of Vana'diel?
These have all been great! I'm hyped for the Rhapsodies review to come. As an early player that dropped out around Abyssea then returned in 2020, it was both nostalgic and novel! I was really surprised that Adoulin was even made, then when I found out there was even MORE story content, it just blew my mind.
I've been excited to get to work on RoV for a long time! I hope to have it out in 2 weeks and it's shaping up to be my longest review.
Lets Go!! Man you been taking me back to the golden age for sure!!!
Bro you are FOREVER a Legend!!
May you ALWAYS walk in the light of the Crystal!
Thank you! I'm already working on the next one, and I hope it doesn't disappoint!
Whatever the exact specifics on their rushed ending of SoA, it is still a fact that FFXI bankrolled XIV and all of their other projects for years. FFXI was like a lifeline for the company of SE, and it was their highest earning game overtime until XIV finally overtook it recently due to sheer popularity
I, too, really love Seekers of Adoulin. Two town themes. Lots of awesome world music. Beautiful zones and awesome new monsters and crafting recipes. Also with the addition of Ionis, we finally have all 4 elemental crystals represented by city/region buffs.
Water = Signet
Fire = Sanction
Wind = Sigil
Earth = Ionis
Your point about the crystal elements being represented is fascinating.
You're right, FFXI did pay for FFXIV. The thing I don't understand is, why cut the project if it's lucrative? If ARR took a lot of staff away from FFXI after it came out, that's understandable. But information on the developers between SoA and ARR is really hard to find.
@@vicenarian340 Square Enix's corporate office is notoriously stupid. This is true as far back as even pre-merger, since they had bankrupted Square, and Enix's executives still agreed to basically trade identity and capital for IPs (it's almost more accurate to say that Enix bought Square).
Sadly, over the last two decades, it hasn't gotten much better, and while I don't know the actual specifics, I imagine XI was seen as stable enough that they could give it less. Ultimately they were right. It's still going on fumes, still generating almost pure profit and XIV is now the powerhouse of the cell.
@@SirVyre This is reminding me of the disappointment I felt regarding the insanity surrounding the development of FFXIII and FFXV. I even remember SE not having saved anything from the first 2 KH games IIRC. So to remaster them, they needed to remake them lol.
This makes me sad for FFXI. I love where the game is now, and it's one of my favorites of all time. But they horribly mistreated the IP over it's life.
They are indeed stupid. Why is play online still a confusing mess. Why isnt 11 linked with your 14 account why isnt 11 backwards compatible with next gen systems that have 14 when dawntrail was first shown and the 24 man raid was shown to be ff 11 based i decided to jump back in to 11 i was willing to pay for the official version of 11 but omg play online was a nightmare i didnt set it up way back in the ps2 era my friends did it for me so i bever knew how i ended up giving up and just jumping on a private server cats eye there are a lot of people playing 14 that either really miss that old school mmo feel 11 has or wants to find it since they are tired of 14s more modern style if access to 11 was easier they could make more money @SirVyre
I totally watched all these out of order? But I really enjoyed hearing a newer players perspective on this, it also helps me with how I write my guides for XI here.
Oh man I’ve been patiently waiting this video! Thanks so much for the work!
You're very welcome!
One thing that makes XI so special is that even though a lot of the old "best" rewards have long since been transcended by modern gear, the developers have allowed a lot of that old gear to be upgraded forward to modern standards. Even one of the first endgame drops ever made, the Defending Ring dropped by King Behemoth, is extremely sought-after. The game even rewards returning players with needing fewer upgrade materials for their job-specific gear (such as Artifact and Relic) depending on how far they took it back in their respective eras.
Even stuff like the High-Tier Mission Battlefields offer fantastic rewards, incentivizing players old and new alike to try those fights out at a proper difficulty level. Anything made obsolete by future patches has been solved one way or another. The devs deserve praise for how well they've balanced the game after more than 2 decades of service.
I'm currently working on the RoV review and one whole section of the video is dedicated to this topic. I wholeheartedly agree.
Having always been interested in XI, but never getting around to playing it, I must say I am very grateful for you making these videos. I now watched all of your reviews (skipping over the story sections for spoiler reasons), and it left me excited to find out for myself what this game, with all of its expansions, has to offer. I don't think I will play it anytime soon, because getting into such a large and complicated game isn't really compatible with my life right now (also I am still a bit burned out from just how long it took to finish XIVs main story), but I do think that with all these quality of life improvements added to later versions of the game, it would be a very enjoyable experience nowadays (exploration actually looks more fun than in XIV imo) - and for those who wish to see the old hardcore experience preserved, there will still be Horizon, so everybody wins. But yeah, while the time investment, and also the monthly subscription, are definitely somewhat of a hurdle to overcome with this game, it's still a shame that it occupies the outsider position in the franchise even to this day; so I think that content like this is especially important to introduce the game to players who otherwise might have never even considered getting into it. And I do think there is hope. After all, a couple of years ago, a lot of FF fans also denounced XIV as "not a real FF game", and then came Shadowbringers, and everyone realized just what a great narrative experience they were missing out on, and nowadays, this MMO is seen as one of the cornerstones of the modern FF experience. So good luck to Van'adiel, and I hope to visit it myself someday.
Thank you for the feedback, this is a huge encouragement! Just to let you know, I write the story sections of each video just covering the set ups and the premise. So they don't spoil anything major. That having been said, I went into these expansions 100% blind, and that might be the best way of experiencing them. So no shame for avoiding the story sections.
FFXI is in my opinion, one of the very best in the series. Unfortunately, it's also the least commonly played among FF fans, as you've pointed out. I grew up watching FF reviews and that's what got me into playing FF in the first place. It always irritated me to see that there were no proper reviews for modern FFXI though. So, I'm hoping these videos do for many people what they seemed to have done for you; make people aware of how incredible the game is.
It's awesome to hear that you're considering the game for when your schedule permits! It has an absolutely brutal learning curve, so brace yourself for that lol. Feel free to reach out to me at any point if you have any more questions!
Nah my guy this was the death of 11 the 75 era was the peak and you are right about the dedication it took to play the game but the sense of victory and accomplishment for the time put in showed up literally on the screen through the growth of your gameplay with the jobs and the gear you wore it really meant something to have things and to be good at your job not that you couldn't be good without the best gear but when you were good at something you'd be rewarded with the stuff that would make you better by all those in your LS because they all believed in your ability to help the party alliance and LS now you don't need to be good at all which is most likely because of the fact that most people who play now have never played 75era and only know the new era like you said in your video nothing wrong with that but it took guts and grit to play this game it was by far one of the hardest MMO out of all-time so much so that people would cry in town about it before going over to Warcraft and coming back saying how much easier it was salute to all of the vets from 2002 to 2009 we are legends my friends take pride in knowing that guys and to the new generation thanks for keeping our legacy alive and I'll see you all on Horizon XI Heroes of Vanadiel 75cap is back baby WOOT ❤
To be more specific, it was actually Abyssea that destroyed the lvl75 era, not SoA. This expansion was what destroyed the lvl. 99 era. I do want to address some points that you bring up though.
The game now has some of the hardest content that FFXI has ever had. So few people have beaten the v25 Odyssey NMs or have cleared the tVR Master Trials. Many people who have clears on this content have been playing since the 75 era too. The level of skill that this content requires is just flat out insane. This is evidenced by the fact that the most recent Master Trials, Oathsworn Blade and Wings of War, have yet to be cleared, despite being out for several months now.
Most of your talking points still apply to FFXI's endgame. It just no longer applies to the early and mid game. You're right about this change, it was devastating to many in the community. But you're wrong in that, those elements haven't completely gone away. And most people I've encountered who say that it's gone away have never played modern endgame.
Thanks for the feedback! And like you, I'm happy that there are certain private servers that keep the lvl 75 community structure alive.
Adoulin was SO good as a mix of both story and gameplay elements. I love the Reaves and Yumcax gives me PTSD even as a newer player. I screamed when I saw it as a B-Rank hunt in FFXIV Endwalker. They also just recently added Leafkin as a mob in one of the new Varient Dungeons and I was just squealing with delight.
I have only played a bit of ARR. I have no doubt, when I do a proper play through of FFXIV, I'll see dozens of things that will make me want to boot up FFXI lol.
Seekers of Adoulin is incredible. Best music, best heroine (sorry Prishe), and really cool zones. It's really a shame so many players, myself included, moved to FFXIV around the time this came out. Personally, I just got bored of Abyssea and quit mid-2012 to wait for FFXIV.
I played Adoulin for the first time in 2022 and, to my surprise, it became my favorite expansion.
It really is a gem of an expansion. I was pretty harsh on it's final act, but it's still probably my second favorite expansion. There is so much to love about it.
Your videos are great bro ! Please keep it going
I really appreciate it! I'm currently working on the RoV review, so hopefully that will be out before long.
Such amazing videos! Love seeing new FFXI content.
Thank you, and I'm glad you enjoyed!
Oh man, I really like your FF11 content. I didn't get to play it unfortunately when it came out (didn't have a good enough computer) but my friends did and I watched them play from time to time. These videos are excellent!
Thank you, I really appreciate the feedback! FFXI is still alive and well today if you're ever interested in jumping in yourself.
@@vicenarian340 I just might! I have taken a short break from FFXIV until the new expansion and I’ve been so curious to play FFXI. I just need to figure out how to set it up but I saw a few guides online that help with that! 😂
another AWSOME job!
👍
Thank you, I appreciate the feedback!
Great review. And yeah - discovering the systems introduced here are what made my time with the game bareable...
For 2 full weeks on the free trial the unity system was unaccessible and i didnt understand trusts. When i dove in and purchased it i started reading guides and realised just how much progress i could make and - yeah - it was game changing.
Truth be told, I have the sense that the free trial of FFXI does more harm than good. I'm glad you played through the free month to see a little more of what FFXI's early-mid game is truly like.
I've been patiently waiting on your FFXIV video! Any idea on when it will be coming out?
That's what JokersWild does! We're so glad to have you, friendo. ❤️
Thanks for introducing me, Gweivyth! It's been awesome to be a part of that LS.
another amazing video, loving this whole series
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
Back when I played I remember the mercenary content being mandatory for progressing through Treasures of Aht Urghan's story, including needing to reach max mercenary rank to get to the end of it. They must have changed that requirement at some point.
Wow, that must have been really difficult! Nowadays, you're required to unlock assault, but Assault and Besieged participation aren't required. I think this was an attempt to 'modernize' the ToAU experience, which I do appreciate. But there are a couple lines of dialogue that are a bit jarring to read due to these changes.
Another great video! Thanks Vice!
Thank you for watching!
What a brilliant video. Great effort!!!
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
well researched video as usual. SoA was indeed a transformative era of the game and very welcome addition because at that point we as players weren't even sure we would get another expansion at all. but it also showed us that XI still had a lot more to give if it had the chance.
funnily enough i think QoL takes away from memorability. like i can barely remember the layout of Adoulin because you can find a waypoint almost everywhere. the HP tele and trusts are extremely welcome tho and i can't imagine playing the game without them anymore
It's always great to hear from you, Arciele! I had a quick question, do you know of any place (in game or out of game) that I can learn more about the lore of the Naakuals? I loved their introduction, and I want to dig into their lore a bit more.
@@vicenarian340 i dont recall there being a lot of info on them out there. if its not in the mission cutscenes already, you might be able to find a bit more in the Celennia library.. at least for the first 6
First and foremost, I think that all of your videos are absolutely incredible and I respect the passion you have put into them, it really shines through and I enjoyed them all a lot. That said, I really feel like I have had an experience that differs quite a bit, and when talking to many others is common among a certain segment of the crowd involved with FFXI in some way.
I want to dispel the notion that FFXI was "so hardcore", or took too much time to play. It had aspects that were hardcore, the devs at times also liked to troll, but you couldn't find more more than a handful of examples like that if you tried. And like any mmo, it had things that took a while (you can wait a total of 45 minutes just to run a few dungeons in FFXIV, or spend a month farming a relic), more in relation to what real life goals are, but the design philosophy was nowhere near the same as what games like Final Fantasy 14 or even modern FFXI are like now.
FFXI was meant to be a world to live in, NOT rush through. When people say they could have never played FFXI because it would take too long to do ALL of the content, they are right, but for the wrong reasons. Back then there wasn't this "rush to end game" mentality where now-a-days games suck until you get to end game. The game STATED at level one. I wouldn't expect anyone who wasn't there to know this but I remember being in town seeing people getting complimented for pieces of gear they had on. Stuff that you could only get by doing high level things. Stuff like that was praised and as a young adventurer in the world you would see that and hear the stories and know that there was still so much to do and experience. And when you got there, you could reflect on the things you did, the friends you met along the way, and know that it was worth the climb, and that not two peoples stories would be the same.
Player driven content was a major factor in that, where as now a days if its not "glamour" related or housing related, or on the other end of the spectrum one off hard dance fights, people in some other MMO's completely don't get it. And that doesn't mean that they are wrong, because what they have can be fun too (habbo hotel is an old example of this actually), but it doesn't mean they were right either just because they outnumbered those that did get it. When those MMO elements were stripped away, some people cheered and wondered why they were ever there in the first place, without realizing that maybe they weren't made for them. Maybe they were made for other who just so happen to be part of an audience that doesn't make as much business sense to market to anymore because they aren't big enough.
I'm an old player, who also happens to also play FFXIV and likes it for what it is, a completely different experience. I have tried so many times to get back in to FFXI because like you I wanted to experience parts of the story that happened after I left, but I end up quitting out of boredom EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Why would I play a game that now wishes it was FFXIV, that has over 20 year old graphics, too many convoluted systems to count, with most old content outside the story not being worth it (ESPECIALLY doing it alone), with a sub that is about the cost of FFXIV's. (I pay my retail sub to help keep the game alive.)
All that to say that I have since gone and played a newer old school private server and with some graphics updates, I have found myself LOVING it with my limited time. Almost ALL of the negative talking points went completely to the way side, because quite frankly they are just wrong. I maybe play twice to three times a week, and I haven't had almost of the problems that people have cried about. The game has half the population of retail yet there are ALWAYS parties, there are ALWAYS people shouting to help others, there are ALWAYS people buying things off the auction house, there is PLENTY of content, and I have yet to scratch the surface on running out of things to do. I can do it on my own time, and I have yet to rarely have problems doing so. And its funny because on the rare occurrence that im not able to really tackle the thing I planned on doing, I either do something else or put the game down. If people can put FFXIV down and play other games or go outside, why can't they do that for FFXI when it has its own down time? Like yeah getting places may take longer, but now I actually have a connection with the world. I plan out trips like its an ACTUAL adventure, and each time you get back to town you feel like your experiences have helped you grow.
I never feel rushed, there are no dailies(thank goooooood), combat is engaging if you are utilizing whats there(magic bursting, skill chaining, executing other timely strategies with mobs etc.), and literally EVERYTHING feels so much more rewarding. It felt so much better in fact that sometimes its actually hard for me to play FF14. Leveling jobs in dungeons, or posing afk in Limsa is just SO boring in comparison. Same goes with things like gearing systems too. Im starting to notice where 14 really should be taking notes from the past.
Lastly I just want to confirm that this is not my imagination by using the examples of OSRS, Classic WOW, and Diablo 2 remaster and private, which are all examples of games doing MUCH better than their modern counterparts. Im not trying to make any claims about FFXI vs retail or XIV in particular, but I am trying to say that the segment of the market that I was mentioning earlier is STILL alive and funny enough now growing. On top of that survival games are nothing but grind fests and they are more popular than MMO's.
I just want to say again that I loved your videos, and that I would love to see one on the rhapsodies, and VR storyline, I just saw how passionate you were and in turn wanted to share my words of passion with you.
Thank you for sharing! While I disagree with some things you brought up, reading your comment has deepen my perspective on the game, and it's awesome to see appreciation for FFXI from a different perspective. I'd like to hear your thoughts on some points:
Modern FFXI allows players to play through the story and casual content on their own, but it still strictly enforces social play if you're wanting to do any content aside from casual stuff. Just getting to max level (mlvl 50) could take 600 hours with a solid group, and just about impossible without a group. Sortie, Odyssey, Dynamis D, and Master Trials all require groups of real people if you want to make meaningful progress.
As for accomplishments, making a Prime weapon takes about as long as making a Relic back in the RotZ/COP days from what my LS has said. In fact, depending on your job, building any of the 5 ultimate weapons will forever elevate your ability to execute on your job's potential. Each of them take months to build, the latter stages heavily enforces real player collaboration. Players still do this because of how monumental of an improvement they can get out of it.
I guess to summarize, what are your thoughts on the post-story content of modern FFXI? I never played in the classic era, but when I hear about the positives of the classic era, it doesn't sound too dissimilar from what modern progression to end-game is like.
@@vicenarian340 Yeah absolutely, and I just want to clarify again before answering that I normally end up dropping before reaching end game, so just being honest I have experience in some things but not all.
To your first point though, I take it back to this mentality of "Rush to End Game", which personally I just hate in video games. When I see that, it signals to me that the systems prior probably aren't worth the time, they weren't thought through, or they were just completely invalidated. On one hand I can completely see why they did it, on the other, I think completely negating every system you had prior, every unique piece of gear you had prior, and removing the nuanced player driven content setup that was laid, takes away far too much vs what they have added. I think a simpler solution would have been to just merge the servers more. Make them more populated, and make a system that upgrade classic gear pieces instead of making them fully irrelevant hence killing the content, AND player driven content. ex/ I think that maybe lvl 1-99 in a single day is a bit excessive and kills a lot. Now honestly, It's probably good that the main story could be solo'ed. I actually think it's kinda cool that you can bring in characters from the story into the fights, I just wish that maybe they had the foresight to give you specific team members so the immersion is there, with the option to bring in more party members.
That said, I think looking at some of the criticisms you had with the stories of earlier expansions came about because though SE wanted their MMO story to pop and be better, that wasn't really the "main" focus. It's focus was more on little details that were involved with player driven content. Something as simple as the climb up the mountain in attohwa chasm would cause funny or angry situations depending on the group of people. COP starts off with a lower level difficulty even though many had max lvl jobs, which in turn allowed new players to get help and start with linkshell mates earlier. In fact some of the fights like Absolute Virtue went to far, but they were originally trolls by the devs. Yet the communities and pure uniqueness of system hacking that people came up with in what can be considered borderline war meetings is nuts. And i'm not sure if it still happens but just the way people acted towards each other in the open world and in doing any single small task was unique to FFXI alone. I played a bunch of different MMO's at the time trying them out and FFXI stuck with me for that simple fact alone. No PVP except in the yearly tournaments, and forced empathy through hard knocks difficulty. Not even really "hard" per say, just that death had a consequence that actually stung a little(or to be fair a lot if your home point wasn't close lol.)
Now on the topic of weapons, I actually had this same debate with a buddy that's in my discord who got me to try retail again the last time. I am not usually a fan of Ilvl in games. I don't like it in FF14 because it feels lazy, and it sticks out like a sore thumb if you have played any bit of classic FFXI. Going back to the war meeting thing, this game has a treasure trove of unique builds and strategies that you can pull off depending on who you're partying with, the gear you have, skills you have leveled, and the mobs you're fighting. Sometimes even the day and weather play a part if memory serves correct. But with simply picking the highest Ilvl gear, it completely kills the player driven uniqueness to the battle content. I remember at one point with gear switching on redmage having 5 different gear sets. One for physical damage, one for defense, one for INT based skills, one for MND based skills, and one blended general. That's the extreme end, and gear switching wasn't required but it added a whole new layer and depth of creativity to the game play. I would literally go to sky with another RDM and we figured out that if we both subbed WAR, gear switched, and focused on either defense or damage that we could EASILY duo farm materials for Sky pops. JUST US. It also always made us more versatile in different parties. We wouldn't have had that if the game simply made a "this is the best weapon for this class because these specific stats" which in turn also kinda forces a certain gameplay style. FFXI really wasn't meant to be pigeon holed, as much as some people like to claim it was. Yeah there are mid maxers like every MMO, but even then it was for specific fights. If you wanted to mid max, different gear types suited different things. That also made getting the different gear types via unique quests, mobs that were in a specific spots, or maybe were NM's/BCNM's etc. worth doing. And the devs were genius for that because it made the lower levels that much more exciting. you could find the beetle NM that dropped the Neckchopper and as a Warrior that great axe would carry you for 20 levels (a good while), giving that item some really significant meaning to you, then selling gave you a bittersweet pay out. And at lower levels they even specifically designed it so that depending on what camp you were going to or what mission you were on, they assumed your general level and placed NM's and mobs in zones near or around that you could farm decent drops from. This meant that if you were smart you could actually act like a real adventurer in that you knew it was going to be a trek, so you should hit that outpost quest, farm that spell, kill the NM for that piece of gear, complete that quest, finish that mission, and level to "x" all in one trip. And ill end this point by saying that not everything needs to be a grind for grinds sake. FFXI classic for sure had its grinds, but like the neckchopper example, it also had its own little wins here and there that didn't take forever, but if you just explored, it would feel incredible, and like a truly alive world.
Lastly to answer your last question I'm going to loop back around to the "end game" point I made. I'm glad you used the term "casual content" because so much of classic FFXI really is casual, with the key difference being player interaction, and in turn player driven content which isn't even always needed. There is a lot you can solo, and there is even Beast Master which was always a solo job. And I know this is still viable today because the classic server in mind that I am thinking about actually released their numbers in December and this SINGLE server had just about half the accounts that retail is said to have, given that retail still has about 120k subbed accounts. So to answer your question endgame is probably fun, people including friends say it is, but getting there is just super boring to me. At least with FFXIV the build up to endgame is more enticing. Retail FFXI before end game just feels flat and cut out (unless you are someone who likes solo play) minus its story, it just doesn't help that the graphics have aged and there is no voice acting.
Again going back to my original comment, the current game doesn't represent the philosophy the games foundation was originally built on. One that many people myself included, really resonated with. Adventurers banding together and taking on and exploring a second world together.
@@Ephremjlm1 Thank you so much for this write up! I've learned a lot about the shift in design philosophy that I really didn't know. I think there are some key things in end game, particularly around min-maxing gear in FFXI that you may have been misinformed about, but this comment has been really eye-opening. Thank you for the write up!
@vicenarian340 I really appreciate your conversation. If nothing else I hope people see your passion for this game and resonate with it like i have 🙏
Love the vid. Could be wrong, but I think it's pronounced "Ad-doh/dow-lin" which is more of a vowel sound similar to "ouch" rather than a hard "oo". It's a softer prounciation more related to French.
You are correct. Most people pronounce expansion names incorrect. Zilart and Promathia are often butchered too.
This sounds right. I'll be honest, I can't even get over my 'Vana'diel' pronunciation though lol. Thanks for watching!
So many people talk about the past and how much better things were in the old days, but I just have to insist, that to me, FF11 has become a whole new world with the introduction of Geomancer. Considering how FF14 will likely never add that job, FF11 will always have something that I won't get anywhere else
The entire job system of FFXI is truly something special, but jobs like summoner, blue mage, and geomancer really push the limit of how different jobs within the same system can be from others. Thanks for watching!
@@vicenarian340I still prefer XI BLU over XIV BLU
Arciela feels like a blueprint for Alisaie. The final dungeon for this expansion is amazing. I didnt use the teleport that takes you close to the final boss. I properly traversed through the dungeon from the entrance. Had to do 3 reives along the way and solved multiple puzzles.
I feel like Seekers of Adoulin wouldnt have been made if FFXIV 1.0 was successful.I think they realized that FFXI players who left for FFXIV would return to FFXI after the failed launch and decided to fill the gap (while waiting for 2.0) with another expansion.
That's an interesting perspective on the relationship between SoA and the failed XIV launch. I completely agree with you on the final dungeon of the expansion! Truth be told, I must have missed the telepoint option, I was just excited to trek through that zone.
I haven't played enough FFXIV to compare Arciela and Alisaie, but I've hear that both her and her brother turn out to be great characters. I look forward to returning and seeing FFXIV's Hydaelyn/Zodiark story through.
Another great video - really cool to listen to ;)
I appreciate it!
While I'm sure this was a good expansion, It did come around the time when I, as well as most of my close family and friends who used to play the game, had already checked out from FFXI. I was still subscribed and would jump on once in awhile, but I was no longer invested in the game's story, progression, or end game. Truth be told after wings of the goddess the game kind of sort of ended for me. I would still subscribe regularly and jump on to play with some friends once in a while, reach new level cap, or just to experience the world, but my investment / commitment to the game was significantly less than it had been before.
I was playing Guild Wars 2 at the time, waiting for FFXIVs eventual re release. I played through Seekers mostly passively and out of necessity to unlock some things, but I never paid much attention to its story or world building.
Based on your video it looks like there was something here to enjoy for those who were still fully invested in the game, but the signs were there that SE wanted to wind down FFXI as well.
This makes me want to play retial XI. I'm playing Horizon but don't have a lot of time to group.
Horizon XI is one of the greatest things to happen to FFXI. What the Dev team is trying to do with Horizon is truly something monumental, and I'm excited to see how they handle ToAU and the mythic weapons.
Having said that, I do deeply enjoy Retail FFXI, and it's blend of old and new make it really special. The end game of FFXI has a thriving social community that is VERY welcoming to new players, and certain accomplishments like hitting max lvl (mlvl 50) or clearing V25 NMs seem impossibly difficult. Not to mention the hundreds of hours of casual content (like the great story) that you can play through at your own pace.
While FFXI isn't in it's golden era anymore, it's incredible to live in a time where both, horizon and retail are available at the same time.
Thanks for that, I enjoy reading your thoughts. Horizon is pretty incredible. I just struggle now making any progress.Stuck on COP and I can't realistically do Dynamic or Gods because I can't play for 3 hour chunks at a time. Maybe I should go back to retail!@@vicenarian340
Hi, you've mentioned in the past people following a walkthrough that allows them to see all the story along with expansions stories. I looked but couldn't find a guide online
Try searching for the UA-cam Channel, 'Korvana'. This channel has all of FFXI's cutscenes uploaded except for the newest expansion. It's also the place I go whenever I need a refresher on FFXI lore.
Hope this helps!
I like daydreaming, so sometimes I imagine I'll be surprised with a FFXI offline pixel remake announcement.
At this point, I'd be happy with any high quality FFXI remake haha.
WotG having the best story is a wild take. I agree that the story is great, but the pacing absolutely breaks any momentum and intrigue either the nation or the overarching story builds up by stopping everything we're doing and switching to the other story. It was like watching a movie and then someone takes the controller and switches to the news. I gotta be clear, my problem is just with the pacing, I LOVE the individual stories.
I’m one of the people who really didn’t like Adoulin. I know it was the right decision to that way now, but back in the days I felt betrayed. Working for so many years to level up my job to max. And collecting gear from Dynamis, Tu’lia, Al’taieu it felt like the devs spit in my face when they raised the level cap to 99 with Abysea and introduced Item Level in Adoulin. Combined with a strange rushed story finale this expansion was my least fav when it released and it still has a sour taste in my mouth. I can appreciate it more now after 10 long years but it’s still the one I like the least. I just wish they would have had enough time to end the story they was they intended. It just doesn’t feel finished.
That's understandable. It's not an expansion for everyone. Thankfully, they've since gone a long way in keeping old gear relevant since RoV and onward, but I can understand how awful it would be to have all that work invalidated.
The main reason FF11 was not getting any real updates around the time of WotG is because at that time FF14 had just released and was a total disaster SquareEnix had pulled devs off FF11's dev tram to go and work on fixing FF14. One of the main reasons WotG was so lacking.
I don't disagree. Thank you for watching!
Sadly I quit shortly after getting to adoulin...
It's definitely worth finishing SoA and especially Rhapsodies of Vana'diel if you haven't already beaten them. Thanks for watching!
excellent
Great video as per usual. This morning I was working on adding music to my XI retrospective and just finished doing the music for the Abyssea section, so next up is literally Seekers of Adoulin. Timing, am I right? Hahahaha.
Also, any chance of doing a video on the Experimental Era expansions?
It's crazy that our schedules worked out that way! I'm really excited to see that video, so it's always nice to hear an update.
As far as videos in the experimental era, I would absolutely love to. Unfortunately, my work schedule will be getting much heavier in about a week, so my Rhapsodies review will have to be the last one I do for a while. I plan on continuing content for FFXI, but it will have to be much slower and shorter format videos.
@@vicenarian340 I hear you in regards to the work schedule. If I didn't have to work 50+ hours every week, I'm sure my FFXI and Chrono vids would be done by now. I would say take your time with making videos, as I think Voracious and the Experimental Era deserves the same treatment you gave to the other expansions, so just do those whenever you get the time. I'll be covering both in my FFXI video (should be 3ish hours long), and based on my current pace, I think it'll be March or April when I drop that video and the Chrono one.
But yes, be like the devs during the Voracious era. Better to pace yourself out and be excellent. : )
Also, when all is said and done, we should do a podcast/collab video where we rank all of the XI expansions.
I wish I had the patience to play through retail XI's content and reach this expansion. It really does sound fun, but the process to get there has been extremely boring for me (tried multiple times). Thanks for all these videos!
That's understandable, this game isn't for everyone. I'm glad you're enjoying the videos though!
Im in the same boat. It was content made with major social experiences in mind and now that thats gone it drags. Yet now im playing on a private server and loving every second.
the base age was pretty based
I can't argue with that.
i would dissagress when u say 11 was more enjoyable after seeker changes i and many more seen major drop off after. tho some might have left to other reasons like 14 alot of the playerbase left because of this changed and it did break 11 becouse of that and has never returned to the ( former glory )way it was. their might have bin more people that seen the story but they was a lot less that stayed after their were done the story
Thank you for the feedback! I wanted to address a couple things:
1. The biggest exodus of FFXI happened three years before SoA came out. People debate as to whether or not it was the changes in Abyssea or the explosion or WoW's second expansion. Either way, the big exodus of FFXI players happened several years before the changes in SoA.
2. The changes in SoA seemed to have been a reaction to the exodus of players. Trusts, fast travel, and other QoL were ways of adjusting the gaming experience with the smaller pool of players at that time.
I completely understand why there were plenty of people unhappy about these quality of life changes. Many of these people have perfectly legitimate complaints with the way FFXI has been modernized. But I don't personally agree with many of the complaints. Thanks you for watching and reaching out!
The Sakaguchi era is the best era of ff... Shame he shot himself in the face with that shitty movie
I would be glad to buy another FFXI expansion. SE is leaving money on the table.
I would too! The way SE has handled FFXI has been truly unfortunate.
Goo goo gaa gaa
As of this year i guess were in the "Maintenance era*
Yeah, it looks that way. I remember the producer saying that if it ever gets put in maintenance mode, they'll make the game F2P, they don't want to charge for it after they stop working on it. Seeing how they haven't done that yet, I'm still holding out for another Master Trial or something lol.
@@vicenarian340 would you happen to have a link to where they said this!
If FFXI goes F2P, my life is over. Especially if they find a way to bring it to console
1.35 FFXIV was a good start but by that time they had already ruined the reputation for the entirety of the game that they had to cut the cord.
I heard that FFXIV wasn't actually bad towards the end of its life cycle. I didn't play it, but for this reason, I always try to frame my comments about it in terms of 'success / failure' rather than 'good / bad'.
@@vicenarian340 That's fair and I know plenty of folks that would say if they started with 1.35 it would have been a success building from that good starting point.
@@vicenarian340 Funny enough you can go back to the old official forums, non official forums, and reddit threads and see that there were quite a few people that weren't happy when 2.0 was announced with WOW like combat and some of the systems being completely axed. I got curious and did a few random questions that sparked some debates on the Facebook group and the general consensus seems to be that the game was actually good around 1.19 -1.23b (the final patch). Though as Yoshida himself said, copying WOW was the best option financially.
Congratulate themselves for a job well done? Nah they basically abandoned it and pushed Yoshi-P out. As much as I enjoy XI and SE games they're horrible to their community. Just look at their track record of milking it's fanbase dry with their mobile lineup just to rugpull most of them only after a year or two tops.
I agree. SE did with FFXI what they do best... that is, waste perfectly good potential lol. But I think you might have missed the second have of the sentence you're quoting.
Im not sure they pushed Yoshi P out per say. Idk if you read the 20th anniversary site interview, but it didn't sound like Yoshi P ever had any real interest in FFXI and that it kinda got thrown in his lap. He even clarified that his time with everquest was only like a week before he quit. He preferred hack and slash games. He even made a comment at fan fest sounding kinda annoyed that they had to do exploratory zones again in FFXIV.
Sakaguchi and Tanaka were the major brains behind FFXI and they're both gone so unfortunately the heart hasn't been there for a while.
Trash can