Exploring Cult Dynamics: A Deep Dive With the Hosts of
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- In this interview, we sit down with the hosts of the renowned UA-cam channel "Cults to Consciousness" to delve into the intricate world of cult dynamics. Join us as we explore the defining characteristics of cults, dissect their psychological mechanisms, and draw intriguing parallels between various cult movements. Gain valuable insights into the fine line between influence and manipulation, and discover how awareness can lead to consciousness. Get ready for a captivating discussion that transcends the ordinary - it's time to unravel the mysteries surrounding cults and embrace a journey towards heightened consciousness. #Cults #Consciousness #DeepDiveInterview
Check out the Video we did on C2C HERE: • Warren Jeffs’ Dangerou...
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Thank you so much for having us on! We could chat with you ALL DAY and maybe one day we can, in person!!! We love the work you're doing and support it 100 percent! ❤
@CultstoConsciousness I have never been in a cult officially (once I was at a vacation bible school and was told that sinners have a black heart and the only way to rid that is baptism, my dad got really angry when he heard that and told me it wasn’t true 😂) and I’ve never given money myself to a Christian church, but I do believe in some form of higher power. The point though is that I watch because not only am I very interested in the experiences shared, I also find validation in the childhood trauma that I’ve lived through. Sometimes I second guess myself because there wasn’t ever really physically abuse but there’s certain places I avoid because when I go back there, even though I have a lot of blank spots in my childhood, my body is immediately remembering all the stress that I experienced in these certain locations.
I like the simplest definition: A cult is a small, unpopular religion, whereas a religion is a large, popular cult.
I always thought of religion as a socially accepted and government recognized cult.
OMG Johnathan is so sweet you feel how much he loves his wifey 😍 relationship goals ❤️❤️💕
🥰 I feel very lucky to have him
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
4 of my favorite UA-cam people all in one video. This is amazing
We love you, Jeannette!
Shelise’s interview skills are definitely undeniable! Main reason I watch you guys, always so respectful and so good at asking thoughtful questions! You’re genuinely an inspiration ❤ and obviously thanks Jonathan for all the behind the scenes stuff 😊
How kind of you!🥰 thanks so much! That means a lot
The part about realizing you have to protect your babies before you subject them to the same thing resonated so deeply with me. It is NOT easy to raise kids who don’t just blindly obey, but it is absolutely worth it if it protects them from the hurts that come with unwavering and unhesitant obedience.
YES, YES, YES!! 💯%❣
I was lucky to be born into a clan that had families that practice several "opposing" faith practices ie; Catholic, Jewish, several sects of Protestantism, and Muslim. We all prayed to the same Creator but called Creator by different names. All of the sacred writings have the same base. This taught me to question and explore any and everything that feels off kilter to my spirit. Joining you in your exploration of faith feels like home. Thank you.
So great to hear that the very articulate young lady from South America is getting her papers sorted out, i watched her interview think wow that is one amazing lady, c2c viewers thank you.
I absolutely love both your channels and this interview was such a treat. I absolutely love you all. Thank you!
Aww thank you so much!
Two of my absolute favorite channels coming together! Both of your channels are so educational and you share these stories and information with such compassion are care in a way that really brings out the best in both your guests and viewers/commenters. Thank you Sam, Melissa, Shelise and Johnathan for all your hard work ❤ Can't wait for the live and any other future collabs!!!
I loved this! I watch both of your channels and love the collaboration!
Liked, shared and commented. Love to see two of my favorite channels hanging out together!!!
Love the conversations with the four of you!
👏 yea ❤️ this collab; I'm a subscriber to both of your channels.
This is the best video I've seen either of you do! I was completely engaged with your discussion to the point where I literally spoke out loud in response to things you were saying. Your discussion of the subtle coercion really hit home with me. I experienced that myself in, of all places, a large Southern Baptist church back in the early 1990s. I didn't grow up going to church but my husband did and after discussion, we decided that it was important to us that our children have a grounding in a church background. We started attending a local large SB church when our kids were Preschoolers and I naturally was recruited into working in the Preschool Department. Over several years I rose into a position of minor leadership in that department and enjoyed making my contribution to an area of work that most adults tried rather hard to "get out of doing". And then I was asked when I had been baptized. I innocently answered that I hadn't since this was the very first time I had been involved in attending a church regularly. Suddenly there was a BIG problem in the room. I was told that if I wanted to continue to volunteer, I would need to be baptized as soon as possible. The subtle coercion began. Did I really want to lose working with these children? Did I want to be publicly "outed" by being forced to resign from my position? Did I want to bring shame and embarrassment onto my family (including my brother-in-law who was one of the ministers)? No one ever asked why I wasn't yet baptized. No one ever asked IF I wanted to be baptized. It just became a requirement to avoid shame. So of course, I was baptized. They all went blithely on their way having "checked that box". And that was the beginning of my exit.
Great episode with Shelise & Johnathan! Melissa & Sam - I had an idea for an episode from you guys - could you share what you typically do to support FLDS family members or friends when they leave?
I think this could be an episode with just you and Sam, or, maybe you could have his female cousin on again to talk about the kind of support people of the FLDS need when they leave the religion.
Maybe Brielle would be good to have on an episode like that since she runs a center that helps support people who have left the FLDS religion.
Go Jonathan! Awesome intellect! You gave such a great explanation on that definition of religion. You guys really complement each other. And you lead me to a new channel to watch.
I concur.😊
I love when you do these colabs❤❤
Yay, the collab I've been waiting for! Love both your channels!
Thank you! We did do a collab a few months back when Shiny Happy People was in the spotlight 😁
Thank you so much!
I’m subscribed to both of you and didn’t realize this video was on your channel instead of Shilese’s since you were on her page too today 😂🤦🏼♀️😂 oh well. Looking forward to another epic hour of content. ❤
Shelise and Jonathan! Great common sensical conversation! 🥰
Great collaboration! 🎉
I’ve been waiting for this collab!
53:30 looks like idea for some episode that could be the shared when needed 😉
Love to see this collaboration!
Yay! I love both of your channels and am so happy for this collaboration:)
Comment for algorithm gods.
Shalise, you look fantastic!
🥰🙏
What a treat! Two of my favorites in colab!
I'm so happy you guys are collaborating!🎉🎉
You look beautiful Shelise!! You are absolutely glowing ❤. Can’t wait to see you and Jonathon blossoming as parents!!!
You’re so kind! Thank you 🥰
Never been anywhere near a cult but I really enjoy both your channels. Always looking to learn.
I think a cult is any organization that demands more than its willing to give and that in the process or through its doctrine of believes and behaviours harms its members.
Such a great episode! Thanks to all of you.
Shelise, you are such an INCREDIBLE interviewer and it was a delight to see more of Johnathan - y'all had such insightful things to say! And wow, Sam and Melissa, I always love hearing your takes on things - so articulate and with so much kindness and respect for all ❤❤
I watched the shows on both channels and enjoyed getting to know more about all 4 of you! Really enjoy content on both channels - it’s informative and you both seem to be amazing couples!
Such a great discussion! The cultiverse and examination of manipulation and coercion has helped me in a tangible way recently. I was able to recognize when a medical professional was being abusive in a way I don't think I would have before- and was able to protect myself.
This video resonated so deeply with me. For me, my high control family system as well as ‘true crime’ culture have both had similar impacts as cults and religious high control have had on the four or you, your families, and many of your guests.
Examples of narratives in which people find their sovereignty and consciously choose how to live resonates with people because I feel like humans are meant to have the freedom to write their own narratives. When that is taken away we are forced to do relationships, religion, and/or family in ways that don’t resonate with us, it causes gut feelings of dissonance and discomfort. Sometimes it’s difficult to realize how being forced into positions in life that are not healthy, consensual, or safe have impacted my life until I hear illuminating discussions like this. They help me to continue my own journey towards living my best life with resilience and empathy and removing traces of influence from people and groups who do not have my best interests or the best interests of society as a whole in mind.
I truly appreciate all of the kindness and sensitivity in this space. It’s incredibly healing. I have SO much gratitude. Thank you for this collaboration. Best wishes to all of you as you continue to advocate for vulnerable people, for kindness, and for awareness and compassion as you help people navigate and share their narratives. ❤
I absolutely you guys and the help you are giving to so many people. Thank you for that.❤
just started watching the video but im so excited about this collab!
Love both channels and adore hearing the 4 of you sharing. Keep doing the good work.
I love both of these channels and have been enjoying these collaborations.
My two favorite channels interviewing each other is the most awesome thing ever!! I already watched you guys be interviewed on C2C and then I rushed over here to see you interview Shelise and Johnathan and loved both episodes! Thanks so much for the great content! Keep up the great job you are doing!! ❤
😁🥳
Hi, I am so impressed with Both of You and how much You have learned about Yourselves and Other's..., You are really helping People understand themselves and trusting themselves to. Most important that We are all Human and to help one another when given the opportunity. Thank You.
The theme I keep noticing again and again is the way that people respond to charismatic leaders by slipping into these boundary-less relationships. Where does that come from? That so many people WANT another human being to be the ultimate authority in their lives. That people feel good and safe when they find a narcissist who will play the role of that ultimate authority. I suspect that even if you could somehow identify and restrain the small minority of people who are as completely evil as Warren Jeffs, we will still keep seeing these things happen as long as that collective yen to find comfort in authoritarianism keeps underlying people's spiritual lives. I don't know how many millennia ago we got on this track, but it runs so, so deep. ... And because that is so frightening and depressing, I really really value this channel's focus on consciousness, on developing the sense of self-sovereignty.
Authoritarianism works because humans generally hate ambiguity & the unknown. We tend to prefer structure & not having tons of unknowns. These leaders charisma gains trust, and they also provide a sense of structure and security when they say "I have the key to life! Follow me!" or "I talk to God, listen to me!". Its comforting to someone to think "oh, this person knows more than me and has answers for me." Figuring out the unknowns in life through trial and error makes many of us feel stupid, dumb, or weak- feelings we don't prefer to just sit with. But having someone there who seems smarter, wiser, or more superior to us to guide us tends to feel better. The crappy side of it is there comes a point where the seemingly smarter person now has your full trust & you're too scared to have boundaries with them or speak up about what few you may have & you're now in a prime position for abuse you never would have seen coming and probably aren't aware is happening or would ever occur. Authoritarians can be incredibly smart & in the context of cult leaders, usually are smart enough to carefully construct how they're gonna slip your self-trust away from you right under your nose. They also do an amazing job at weaponizing the human tendency/preference toward tribalism. Indeed, it is scary!
My two fave channels together ❤
I really enjoy these collabs! It’s wonderful to see channels like yours and others all supporting one another!
You're experts in your own life. Yes, experts!
Watched all colab videos, they are great!
Now to go hit up the other one!
Thos combination jist works! Please do more collabs.
When i first started DBT therapy, the therapist I started with asked if id experienced abuse or trauma, but she didn't define rhat for me. I didnt think the answer was yes at that point in time, because it was what was normal for me and my only experience of the world. Now I know that I did experience abuse and a traumatic home life, but i had to know the difference first.
My mom was a 19 year old first time mama and was coerced into christening me as a baby. Her in laws were Lutheran and they told her if I died as a baby they wanted to make sure I would go to heaven. I'm now 39 and athiest lol
This discussion reminds me of domestic violence survivors and the fact that, in the beginning, the victim is going for a good thing.. then experiences the coercive control, the fear, the conditioning with punishment and reward, the shame, control of sexuality, the self policing/punishment, sleep deprivation, food restriction, and victim blaming about the victims “choices”. My mind is reeling. P.S. This episode very clearly described motorcycle culture.
Another aspect of a cult is that no one who is happy in a cult can truly say that it's not at the expense of someone else.
Fantastic discussion!
I'm fascinated by all things cult-related, and have watched many of the GUIP videos. Have i missed a video where you talked about going into the Temple the day before your wedding, or have you made a conscious decision to not discuss it?
I stopped going to the LDS church when my son Cameron who has mild autism was 5. I was tired of them teaching that feelings are evil. However, now that Cameron is 19 he talks about the Muslim faith and how he believes in Allah. I would rather my son not believe in the Muslim faith as they really disrespect women. I wonder if my son would have been better off if I had raised him throughout his childhood in the LDS faith. Don't know the answer to this question. I guess some adults will be attracted to cults even when not raised in a cult.
I agree, it can be difficult to define a cult. For example, can "National Identity" be considered a cult? If a country's culture teaches its citizens to "plead allegiance" to its laws, constitution, and/or leadership, could that be considered a cult-country? Or, does it depend on other details such as allowing its citizens to disagree, to vote to replace leaders, or to chose to seek citizenship elsewhere without undue pressure? Could commitment to a sports team be a cult? Or a college fraternity or sorority? Or a repetitive family tradition? Or cosplay-level commitment to a book, movie or music icon? Periodically, I take a break from any of these in my life to assure myself that it does not have a cult-level hold on me.
I worked in a men's prison and my observation was 99% of inmates in for csa had strict religious doctrine about sex.
❤
Now I am curious what happens in the temple?
“Fatties”🤣
I’m dying…
Thank you so much for what you do. I have a question. Does a cult have to be a religion, per se? I see it coming into politics. Very sad.
And what if a woman isn’t able to have children? How were they looked at in the FLDS?
When I think of "CULTS I think of Jim Jones, or David Koresh , those kind of Cult Leaders.
Interestingly, I found both of your channels at about the same time. Within the same week. I love all of y’all’s content. But I can’t help but wonder, especially in the context of this video, how ans why no parallels have been drawn to the cult like behavior of “the Covid time”. As a participant and an observer the last 4 years, it is more obvious to me then ever that we are all susceptible to being cultish, indoctrinated, manipulated, influenced, and more. Nothing sets any of us apart from any other of us in this regard. Self examination and self reflection is absolutely necessary at all times in this “brave new world” we live in, as a safe guard to being sucked into any or all aspects of the BITE model.
Excellent discussion. Please take this constructively:
No one really answered the question, are all religions cults? You are correct that using that categorical label is offensive, but it also opens up a can of worms regarding value systems and truth claims that are neither provable or disprovable.
If you’re intentionally focusing on people who have left belief systems and are now trying to piece together a new paradigm, then maybe use of that label helps them, at least in the short term.
If you wish to include people actively in belief systems, I would recommend you focus on cultish tendencies that pervade belief systems. For one, I you’re more likely to get people thinking. For two, it carries more credibility-if two people in a shared system are experiencing cult behaviors to varying degrees, a categorical designation ignores those differences, and you end up with conflict over a label where there might have been agreement on a behavior.
Third, if you wish to see faith communities uproot and expel cultish tendencies, you need to facilitate a space where people are validated by remaining in their faith while fighting cult behaviors. Telling someone they’re in a cult implies the only valid response is to leave.
Sorry that was so long. Best.
Shunning and blind obedience to leaders is a sure sign of a cult to me.
The problem with such broad definitions of cult, everything becomes a cult, even non religious cultures. Every single culture and society has punishments and rewards based on behavior or beliefs. Dr. Hassan also participates in cult behavior himself if we define cult by how people cherry pick his standards.
Every government is a cult according tot heir definition. The government controls people at the risk of imprisonment or even death and doesn’t give us informed consent at all what they are doing to us while spending half our money. Words have meaning for a reason.
I totally understand that. It can get easily diluted. When we speak of things that aren’t necessarily dangerous, we say they have “cult tendencies” or follow “cult like patterns” without calling them a cult, as to not dilute or minimize the word in the face of extremely harmful cults.
@@CultstoConsciousnessa murderer has similarities to you, you breath and walk and talk and think and sometimes you really dislike people like a murderer, should I start saying you have murderer like traits?
Think of all the levels of people groups we could start applying this soft comparison tactic to vilify.
Call out bad behavior, expose corruption, but do not over exaggerate and vilify whole people groups. That’s what you’re doing.
Hi This is me Penny Smart When I try to reach out to you before I got hit by I need to private way to messenger some very scary people.. It made me hide. I need to avenge Clayton.
Told me a lot n I need to event a lot of things. I need a private wave for us to talk
All 4 of you used “boobs” instead of “breasts”. Not very egalitarian!
I love you guys together! Subscribed from C2C🩷🩷🩷🩷