I think it's very ironic that she dies by the self harm of a mirror. She has been taught to focus on what her performance looks like all her life through mirrors and sees everyone she wants to be through these mirrors and it created a sort of self destruction. It finally ends with the cause of this destruction being her death, maybe something to say about insecurities?
I always interpreted that Nina actually dies in the movie. Mostly because of Winona Ryder's character, Beth. Beth at the start was perfection, she was everything. As she grew older, she was nothing. I think that Beth is the result of going down the dark path that Nina is in. It is a reminder of what will happen. I think Nina did die because by dying, she immortalized herself in her performance. She will always be remembered by how perfect she was.
Although i have only watched the movie once, I agree I also think that's why she accepted and enbraced it in the end, because she never had to have the fall after the rise. Weirdly beautiful in a way But I definitely have to give another watch and see what else I can notice
💯 well said. I see it this way as well, I don’t agree with the interpretation that this video gives because it overlooks just how much Nina was devalued in her life to the point that she would rather die than keep trying so hard to be good enough for others. She both wants to leave on a high note and escape from the hells of her mind. That’s another thing, I see the hallucinations in the movie as her real mental health deteriorating leading to psychosis and eventually suicide. The interpretation in this video treats the hallucinations as pure symbolism, which completely overlooks how much Nina was truly suffering.
Her mother is a representation of a helicopter parent. Helicopter parents refuse to let their children mature, they want them to stay dependent of them. Helicopter parents don't see their children as independent individuals on their own but rather as an extension of themselves.
I've watched Black Swan so many times and never picked up on the sexual abuse interpretation. It really does make sense. An example is when Nina licks the cake off her mum's finger. I always found that creepy innapropriate. Gives me chills... yuck
Is it her mom who sexually abused her or her dad? Cuz u never see the dad or even hear him get mentioned. I wonder if he got arrested or something because he was abusive and sexually abusive to his family
@@DavidZ7785 I think it was her mom. There's a scene where she finds her mom crying, she goes to throw the garbage out and starts looking for something. She finds the stick, and tries to block her door, then chickens out and hides the stick. Then her mom shows up in a sexy nightie and says "Are you ready for me?" Also the scene with Lily, she put the stick in the door to block it before they had sex, when Lily finishes she goes "sweet girl"... then Nina wakes up and the stick is not blocking the door. Someone got up earlier and unblocked that door, and we know it wasn't Lily. When Nina leaves her mother is looking somewhat in shock. I can't help but wonder if it wasn't entirely a hallucination and she was in the room that night. Maybe it never went *that* far before, but I think something was up there. There is a lot of creepy boundary-crossing- the licking the fingers, the stripping her down, demanding she take her clothes off, most of the bad art Erica made is of herself and Nina; she's completely obsessed with her daughter, she sees her daughter as an extension of herself that she owns, and taking sexual advantage of her daughter would be the ultimate narcissistic act.
I believe that her mother was responsible for her condition, she was jealous of her and thought Nina more like a way to fulfill her lost dream, like a human vessel for her desires than a daugther. I believe that her mother sexually abused her, everytime Nina was in the bathroom or in her room she tried to block the door, everytime she was around her mother was acting like a little girl even though she is an adult. When Nina refuse to eat cake her mother snapped and overreacted, also the way the mother asked her ''are you ready for me''? it was creepy or everytime she called her ''sweet girl''. Also the scratching i believe was a hint, maybe she harmed her self because she couldn't bare her own skin because of the abuse. And of course the end of the movie, the moment she is about to jump her mother was her focal point, i believe that her death was not only due to her fixation to perfection but also was a way to escape her mother. Overall Nina sufferred from mental distress.
Her mom makes me think of those stage mom's who push their kids into dance or sports so they can live vicariously through them and if the child achieves their dream then so do they.
lol, The movie is open for interpretation but you guys are reading way too much over the "are you ready for me" line .The whole movie her mother has a very overprotective yet passive role, while Nina starts shutting doors and acting violent the moment she gets the swan role (entering adulthood) cause she wants to rebel for her privacy (as every teenager does to their parents especially daughters.
I feel like this move definitely also hold some commentary on the paradoxical standards society has on women. Purity/"Prudeness" vs. Maturity/"Sluttiness", and how girls are forced to become women in the blink of an eye rather than a steady transition.
would you rather women be children forever? society puts no standards on women, only you can put a standard on yourself. If you continue to blame others, fine, then women put pressure on other women. Women are the ones that are likely to see both purity and a promiscuous lifestyle as bad.
Anyone else also appreciate the more subtle creepy imagery of Black Swan, such as just how thin Nina is? Obviously ballet dancers are usually thin, but she looks unnervingly skinny, another part of her self-destructive behavior.
Indeed. I'm normally not impressed with her performances (I think she just needs the right director though), but I'd say she deserved the Oscar. Apparently she's very good in Jackie as well, I'll have to see it.
Yeah and all of the times she threw up. At first it seemed like it wasn't from nerves but from wanting to be thinner- and the way she rejected the cake her mom bought, no amount was small enough. I thought it was a really good showing of how Nina was anorexic and struggled with insecurity.
i also think that's a literal representation of becoming the role. in the film, nina throws up often & pressures herself in various ways to become the black swan but natalie portman, the actor, has to have starved herself to become this role of nina, who's doing the same to achieve perfection. it's kind of mind blowing but that's also how i interpreted the film: in order to become successful/perfect in the art form you're passionate about, you have to let go of, or in nina's case, stab/kill a part of yourself. the dance director in the film even kept telling nina to let go and live a little because he saw something in her which was a contrast to her outer polished self when she bit his lip. it's accepting & allowing the black swan inside of her to take over in order to be submerged into this role perfectly. "im perfect" were her very last lines of the film as she's bleeding out and it fades to white.
When I first saw Black Swan, I thought about lingering negative societal ideas about female sexuality. Nina must transform, almost like a rapid and grotesque puberty experience, from the white swan -- virginal, innocent, pure -- to the black swan, who is sensual, sexual, and free but portrayed as dangerous. I think much of our society sees a free, sensual, sexual woman who enjoys her sexuality as dangerous...you know, dark -- the dreaded black swan.
That's a good point! It also touches upon how society forces women to grow up too fast or become something they're not. I mean, just by becoming the black swan Nina's already sacrificing so much of herself for the idea of perfection. There's no way to win (pressure to change and be who you aren't + slut-shaming judgment for changing = destruction)
The way to win is by unapologetically being yourself and not changing for others. Or, if you do change, it's because you yourself want to: and is a process you go through on your own terms and at your own pace. Slow and steady wins the race
As a perfectionist, the ending of this movie just scratches the part of my soul that i can't quite reach with my limited being. The pain from the injury at the end is an irrelevance compared to the tranquility of resting on your back with all your muscles relaxed at last, knowing that you have painted something spotless.
I want to add the symbolism we see portrayed through colors of clothing Nina wears. In the beginning of the movie, Nina is surrounded by and dressed in whites and pinks-colors of purity and innocence that are also associated with little girls. As she spirals out of control, losing herself, we see more greys and then ultimately, blacks.
That's a very good point to be noticed as a part of styling and costumes in the whole movie..also it did complement the colour palette of the frames of each shot pretty well ..
We also can see the costumes were pretty straight forward/ given to the character especially colours on nina were mostly in neutrals whereas for Lilly always in blacks and even the gentleman in blacks always.. her mother too..
I heard a great interpretation that it was about trying to appeasing the dichotomy between being a "good" girl and a "bad" girl when society demands one or the other.
@@tomj_gmez I scraped a chunk of meat off my leg once from falling. I still winced at how she tore her skin off. I don't think having an injury once means being immune to stuff like this lmao
I feel this movie is a beautiful depiction of the emotional and psychological stress that unravels from a person who has no sense of self but has to conform to unachievable perfection. The evolution of the black swan at the demise of the white swan is a running theme in many aspects of contemporary life. To achieve excellence in any art form will always make you balance precariously on the beam of insanity. To find yourself you need to realise you are lost. I adore how the binary polar opposites are contrasted but then are meshed in a linear fashion to leave us in a state that questions our own reality. This movie is an epic master piece!!!!!!
I don't think Lily symbolizes adulthood. I think she symbolizes Nina's repressed side, or her Jungian "shadow". At least in part Nina's mother seems to be responsible for the repressed part of Nina's personality. Ultimately I don't think this is a story of "growth". Nina ends up killing her shadow, stabbing (possibly killing?) herself in the act, emphasizing that the shadow is an integral part of the self and something one cannot run away from or seek to destroy, or one ends up destroying oneself.
Yes!! I had this interpretation too as someone who studies Jung’s work. I felt like the whole concept of the black swan wasn’t adulthood but rather the archetype of Nina’s “dark side” or shadow.. lust, shame, fear of failing, trauma. In the final performance as the black swan her shadow had the wings, I felt like that was a clear message that the black swan was her darker repressed side all along and it took over her. I love this movie
I interpret it as the telling of the first psychotic episode in a patient with schizophrenia. I work in mental health, and a lot of what I hear about is remarkably similar to what Nina experiencing. It comes so close to schizophrenia that I am certain the film writer did some research on the topic before writing this film. Of course, the film does incorporate a lot of symbolism so that more abstract meanings can be be pulled out of it as well. It's a really well thought out story.
I absolutely loved this movie. I don't know why, but movies with heavy ambiguity always seem to have this elegance to them, and for Black Swan this was certainly the case. Even though it was some-what traumatic and thriller-like, the movie was still really beautiful. Nice review by the way, the Nina and Lily names and the symbolism is a new fact for me and I felt like that was really interesting. The one thing that puzzled me about the movie is how she was seeing doubles before the trauma began to hit her, towards the beginning of the movie. None the less, I loved the movie and this review.
Thank you so much! If I could give my thoughts on why you love ambiguity-heavy movies, is that they keep the conversation going, you see a Marvel movie, and it may have 15 minutes worth of discussion after it ends, but a movie like this always has a debate and a conversation to be had.
I've actually seen black lillies used as a symbol for female sexuality. Black Swan? Black Lily? I figured this was perhaps the connotation they were going for, but it's nice to have varying interpretations.
I love Lily's difference in body language to Nina's (and all the other dancers) when we first meet her. She confidently and casually walks in with her earbuds in whereas many a ballerina would probably be very nervous meeting a whole team of professional dancers for the first time. Other things I love about this movie: the choice of Barbara Hershey as Nina's mother. The actress definitely shows signs of having had plastic surgery, which fits in perfectly with the role: a mother, feeling robbed of her youth by having a child, is attempting to live vicariously through her daughter. Her hold on Nina is so tight that when Nina said "I'm moving out," I was shocked. Up to that point I really had viewed her as a little girl - I thought, 'where will she go? How can she afford to live?' But then I thought, 'she's a professional ballerina - I'm sure she can afford it', followed by 'does she even have control of her own money?'
A Brazilian youtuber has done a video in which he decrypts symbols that lead to believe that Nina's mom is responsible for her infantilization for more than the whole "being pregnant made me give up on this so you will do what I didn't" thing. There are signs that she abused Nina sexually. Her wanting to stop her daughter from growing up is thus explained because if she has other sexual encounters she might remember of the instances in which her mother abused her. For instance, at the final moment of what she thought to have been sex with Lily, she sees herself standing over her body, and Lily denies ever coming over. And when she woke up, the thing holding the door wasn't there. The only other woman in the apartment was her mom. So it all really underlines the theme of growing old and into a sick and twisted world.
even if she didn't go the distance to actually abusing her daughter, the creepiness of the similarity between the symbologies goes to show a little further how much Aronofsky knows his job :~
Totally agree with this. Not to mention the fact that a lot of the scenes with Nina and her mother will just cut off. Like when Nina's mother asks "Are you ready for me?" and then shows up in a lingerie-type slip. The scene then just cuts off which seems suspicious to me. In my opinion, there are so many hints of her mother's sexual abuse, and rewatching the film so many times, that I think that was definitely what was happening.
lily made her own decisions unapologetically and embraced her flaws. something a lot of people who havent mautred are incapable of doing. none the less she did live recklessly but again no one is perfect... thats what makes her a black swan
I have to say it's not about mature or immature. It's about class difference. Lily family has moved forward the social ladder so she can afford to have this behavior. Nina has to be like her mother as she has no choice. At work she is confused how can she compete w ppl like Lily while holding on to mother's value. Lily's her name cuz she gets confidence from her family to make every wrong look right and pure.
I went to school with a girl who has a very weird protética mother. She was 15 but her mother was the one who cut her nails and clean her ears. Nobody told me, I saw. That girl was considered the most strange girl of our school because she was. Some woman shouldn’t be allowed to be mothers, is almost a crime.
I feel like Lily's purity isn't found in her actions so much as in her drive. She has purity in her enjoyment of dance and in her passion, whereas Nina stuggles in an attempt to force such "purity" in the enjoyment of dance. Nina's purity is in her form, while Lily's purity is in her "feeling". And because that is the kind of purity Nina lacks and requires to achieve perfection, there is an emphasis placed on Lily's particular brand of purity. It is a kind must harder to achieve as it's the purity of authenticity, and therefore can't be practiced or faked.
When I saw the movie all I saw was a girl living in fear. First, she's a dancer just like her mother (I do not think that her mother has forced her into being the star she has never been, as a child Nina choose to believe she has to do it for her mom), she's not living alone even if she can, she stays with her mother, she does not want to be alone or maybe it would not be safe for her to do so? She's controlling herself, her appearance, her world, she let some others controlling herself, she is hurting herself, she's never pleasing herself - because perfection comes with pain, never with pleasure (we all are afraid of losing something that brings us happiness, instead we live in fear of loosing it) - she has no friends because she's afraid to trust anybody. She's living in a world where it's already all black and white. When she's dreaming about being "the star", she meets with Thomas, she's not confident, she's begging for the role, not fighting for it. Meaning she would be ok with a second place role in the ballet. But when she realizes that this dream is becoming REAL she's terrified and that's when she's loosing herself, her control. Somehow she's forced into this "black side" of this "black or white world" she's living in - in her mind - and it is devastating for her. It would be too easy to assume that some characters are evil and she's the innocent one, this is what SHE thinks is true. She's too afraid to live in the real world, so at the end, after the performance, she totally let go of it. Her mind is dying, not her body. And I think, maybe her mom knew she has schizophrenia, and was aware that this sort of nervous breakdown could happen to Nina under pressure. She sees what we don't: her daughter is living in full denial of reality.
personally i believe that this film is about how striving to reach this idea of “perfection” will one day kill you. throughout the movie we hear Nina continuously say how “she just wants to be perfect” and with her closing line she exclaims “it was perfect” showing how to truly reach what your mind determines as your state of “perfection” you are slowing destroying who you are. The hallucinations Nina has of herself shows her inner battle in reaching this “perfection” and how she is slowly going insane because of this goal.
I think it was a very good decision and yes he does own the rights to perfect blue. I wish it was mentioned more though because not a lot of people know about perfect blue.
Great review! But I see the blood as her entry into women hood. I don't think she actually dies but I see the blood as her getting her period and entering into women hood. The little girl is gone and she is now mature a women of her own values
Everytime i watch this movie i feel like the whole reflection theme extends further than just mirrors. Ninas body could be a more tangible representation of her mental health: as we see her rash spreading, so is her anxiety over performing. As breaks her nails, we can see her grasp of reality fracturing as toma gives lily the role of the black swan. This movie is one of my favorites thematically, cinematographically, and visually.
I think Lily was never actually there or she wasn't there in half of the movie. Cuz in some parts of the movie when Lily is there w/Nina & some other person or ppl. They don't acknowledge Lily being there. Also in some scenes Nina sees Lily as herself when she looks at her. When I first watched this movie & even several times. I didn't pay enough attention to the little details in this movie till I kept watching it over the past 8-9 years now. I think Lily was one of the character that Nina created in her head.
To me lily could have been a personification of Nina’s shadow self and Nina was afraid of confronting that dark side “black swan” part of herself hence why she was so afraid of lily “stealing her role” aka the dark parts of her taking over.
Another idea: the black swan is an eating disorder (only eats half a grapefruit as breakfast, vomiting, doesn´t want to eat the cake, refuses going to eat out with Lilly, the backstage lady commenting "you lost weight. Great.") and although it helps her effectively in reaching the goal of beeing loved perfect it destroys her mind and finally her body. Like it had destroyed Beth. That´s also why she stole Beth´s stuff, those were the eating habits and disordered thoughts she copied from her. She is working out obsessively. She doesn´t recognise herself in the mirror and feels like her reflection is her enemy, which can be interpreted as body dismorphia. She feels like she is competing with another girl, she considers "better" than her, even though she is not actually threatening to her and her role at any time, it is all just in her head. Comparing yourself to girls you think are more pretty, talented or skinny is a big thing when you have an eating disorder. It´s the disorder that makes Lilly her enemy, not real life. That´s why Lilly is associated with the black swan and thats also where the ambiguity in Lilly´s character comes from. And finally you could say, that the whole performance of Swan Lake represents her entire life. It is all just a show, don´t make mistakes, be perfect, be the black swan, at all costs. That is why the screen in the end fades to white, she is getting healthy again :)
i was surprised that ive never seen anyone correlate her eating disorder to her madness. she BARELY eats, and what she did eat she threw up.. thats gotta take a toll on your mental health. it messes with ur memory and brings u to the brink of insanity, i feel like that was a major contributing factor to her madness
This is more like an American version of Perfect Blue which ironically is where some of the source material came from. But in the end, Nina didn't destroy the illusion, she embraced it finally losing in a world where she contently struggles up to the point where the end of the race means death.
This was an excellent review. I see it from the second point of view (mostly). The lengths that people will go to get what they want, when you get there its not what you thought it would be and that there is always a price and life always come back to collect
I may be seeing this film on a very base level, but after re watching it I came to the same conclusion as my first viewing when it came out. Nina is trying to become something that she has been told, by her mother, is wrong or dirty. The same as some very religious families would tell their son or daughter about being gay. When she starts to let go and become the Black Swan she finds she enjoys some of the "bad" things and it causes her to loose grip on who she is anymore. She tries to purge her urges and in the end she dies trying. Nina didn't realise that there's room for both a lighter side and a darker side to a person and when to let either part take control. In not letting both co-exist she destroyed herself. That's just the jist that I took away and I know a lot of the film is subjective and anyone can see what they will. I hope my thoughts offer an interesting take.
I had always wanted to watch Black Swan, so when you said you were doing a review on it I watched it. Great movie. Alot of little meaning behind everything shown in the movie. I think you would be able to do a whole hour review on in and still touched the surface. But great review Jack you brought up most of the points I had.
Thanks Steve! I'm glad I was able to recommend a great movie to you! This movie does offer a lot of discussion, there is a LOT that you could say about it, I generally try to keep these on the shorter side, but will be doing a couple of longer ones in the next few months.
Great review! Seems to me the main theme of this movie is that due to external forces (her new role & boss) Nina is being pressured to integrate her shadow (which is the part of us that we unconsciously reject & disown due to socialization & shaping by parents, family, social group, society, etc...the black swan represents the shadow). And because Nina is already mentally unstable, is motivated to integrate her shadow for the wrong reasons (please others, success, perfectionism) and because the integration process is being forced too quickly and without proper understanding & support it creates a psychological crisis, elevates the symptoms of her mental illness & results in a tragic psychotic breakdown. I also feel the relationship with her narrsacistic mother is key to understanding how Nina's shadow developed in the first place (imagine as a child what aspects of Nina's personality she had to repress inorder to continue to receive love & care from her overbearing, demanding, controlling, hovering, infantalizing, emotionally reactive/abusive mother). I believe that when we have not integrated our shadow aspects, we tend to have more of an emotional charge (both positive & negative) to people who display our shadow aspects...Nina's mother, her boss Thomas, Lilly, Veronica & Beth).
White swan = training wheels on a bike. Black swan = no training wheels on bike. Just pure intuitive energy. you trust yourself that you’ll not fall off the bike without the training wheels on and even if you do fall, you trust that you’ll get back up and pedal forward to wherever you’re headed to.
I like your commentary on this film. When I originally saw it, I recognized immediately that it was, in many ways, a retelling of the "Hero's Journey" story so familiar in many films - however instead of Nina delving unto the underworld in search of the hidden treasure and eventually returning to the normal world as the enlightened fool, she remains forever in the underworld, being consumed and ultimately destroyed by it. It is definitely a journey into addiction, as you mention, and the addiction clearly defeats her - although you could construe the moment at the end of the film in which she is dying as a return to her innocence, albeit for a brief moment of clarity before death overtakes her. Addiction in general can lead down that path I believe, driving someone to the point in which when they finally see the truth of their addiction, it is too late for them - the addiction has conquered them. Up until that point, there is the delusion that they can "stop before it's too late" and that they are still in control. I believe that is why many famous people end up in a cesspool of drug addiction - simply because after they have achieved fame (their first very powerful, consuming addiction and conquest) they are left feeling empty and end up replacing that addiction with another. Eventually their addictive nature reveals itself, usually too late.
That's a great interpretation I never thought of it that way, but now that you mention it, it begins to follow the hero's journey, but diverts itself halfway through the film!
i feel that Lily is named Lily because Nina obviously has some sort of psychotic issues (which comes to view when her reality starts to blur) also, I think that it takes the "suffering artist" narrative to a whole new level (In DK we have a saying that goes "Exaggeration provokes understanding" or something like that) which I also think is very relevant to generally our world, but showbusiness in particular. I really like your interpretation with the swan lake told in a modern way though.
Eu pessoalmente acho que a interpretação tem muito que ver com o seu final. “Eu fui perfeita”. Essa é a maior das verdades do filme, ela foi absolutamente perfeita. As pessoas viram-na como a personificação da perfeição e acho que é uma das maiores analogias do filme. A perfeição é supérflua. O que se trata realmente da perfeição? As coisas às quais ela nos levas e consequentemente, o facto dela ser, nada mais nada menos, que inatingível.
I thought her hallucinations about lily were sexually driven not just symbollically. I felt like she had a sexual attraction to women which she had to surpress to be the perfect, innocent white swan. Since lilly was a black swan i think it was also about not only did she want to be with her sexually, but wanted to be her too. Usually its one or the other so i felt like they were saying it was both which was interesting. I wish you would have touched more on how the head ballet guy sexually exploited her. That was creepy. I need to see this movie again its been forever.
This is a hell of a ride about descendance into CRAZY . Masterfully and artistically done as the movie IS literally the story of the ballet The Black Swan. Some of the scenes are terrifying, especially surrounding Nina's home life with her mother. Who would ever think Barbera Hershey could play so creepy?
Great film, sure there are subtexts of rebellion, the suffocating / overbearing mother, these are all parts of Nina's struggles. These all lead to a 'breaking point' in Nina's psyche, as the mirror breaks, her mind is as well, and reality and fantasy become intertwined in hallucinations and madness. I loved the third act the most, its a great 'payoff', the subtle special effects, and the beautiful makeup. When I first saw the image of the US movie poster I was blown away by it. Definitely one of Darren Aronofsky best and is definitely worth the watch.
What has not been talked about is her mother's emotional coldness which is only broken through her daughter's utter devotion to being 'perfect' as a dancer. Thus Nina has never really grown up into an autonomous person. In her mother's eyes, her daughter is just a means to vicariously experience the fame she so desperately wanted but was denied by becoming pregnant. Thus Nina was never a complete personality to begin with. The pressures in the role she dances in the ballet - coupled with a coming of age experience which catapults her into becoming a mature personality, are just too much for her fragile personality and she descends into psychosis
I liked the movie when I watched it in grade 13, although I found it very terrifying at the same time The only thing I got was that perfection came with a price - but I always felt like there was more the movie, even if I can't quite pinpoint what the message was Your interpretation filled in all the blanks for me - 8 years after the release of the movie Hell, isn't that satisfying? Thanks man!
I like The Red Shoes, but some of it feels a little bit outdated. I prefer Black Swan, but I also saw it first so that may have had something to do with it.
1:44 - shades of David Cronenberg and early David Lynch. Love the movie. It already works perfectly when taken at surface value (someone on their way to insanity, trying to achieve perfection). As usual: great analysis and fresh insight!
I have one interpretation but im not sure how substantiated it is because a lot of evidence lays in her hallucinations but it still seems like a pretty blatant interpretation to me. This being, lilly is the black swan, nina is the white swan, and the role of swan queen is the prince that breaks the curse. Where lilly plays into this is that she is trying to take the role away from nina kind of like how the black swan takes the prince away from the white swan, but nina needs the role to really fulfill becoming a black swan so therefore if she doesnt have the role then she can't successfully mature and move on in her life (which would be the equivalent of the white swan killing herself). The flaw with this is many of the reasons why nina thinks that lilly is trying to take the role from her happen in hallucinations, however, as the viewer we really dont know what was real and what wasnt (so the sex scene could have been real maybe?) or it can just be a different battle going on inside nina's mind as one interpretation and then the interpretation of her battling to become a black swan is whats actually happening to her outside he mind. So for example lilly coming to nina's apartment only happened inside nina's mind so that's why only she sees it as the black swan (lilly) taking a necessary thing from the white swan (nina).
And this may be a crazy question: Is Lily not a real person, but just a figment of Nina's paranoid imagination? I had a feeling about that...maybe I'm stretching.
@@dromeda6066 no, the director got the rights to perfect blue and incorporated some of the themes into his own movie. they share some similarities, sure, but they're both still their own movie
I'm not sure how simple it is, I think she more or less embodies the theme, on a narrative level, she is real, but Nina does hallucinate seeing her throughout the film.
It's very telling how many different ways people can skew this movie into different, shall we say, themes. Some say it shows a young woman's fall into schizophrenia, others OCD and self-control, some say a victim of sexual abuse, other's say coming into womanhood, and even some saying that the movie shows societal fear of a woman gaining and keeping control of her sexuality. All seem to have good points, but you have to wonder just where they got those specific views. It also goes to show that every single person can see the same exact thing, in the same exact manner, from the same exact point, and still see a completely different scenario.
I think it’s about how Nina’s shadow was never given a chance to see the light because of her mothers expectations of her; her losing all touch with her authentic self by acting how she wants her to be, merely as a protective mechanism. I see her trying to embrace her dark side/ shadow self but is unable to in the middle of the movie, but gets fed up towards the end and with everything going on around her she becomes tired of holding back and starts to let that side of her out. In the final performance that side takes over completely instead of just integrating with her hence her dying
I find connection between Black Swan and the version of Swan Lake the movie bases on. The first time the prince in swan lake saw the white swan he aimed an arrow on her but then got fascinated by her humane beauty just like Nina's ballet coach did (can't recall his name), he was cruel to her in the addition, he saw the white swan of her but not her as a human being. Lily is Odile, a person who the Prince who's the ballet coach mistook between her and the white swan queen and danced with Odile and Odette who's the white swan saw that just like Nina saw the man she started to love having sex with Lily and at the end, when Odette acknowledge that she'll never be human again she killed herself just like Nina did when she lost her mind and knew that she'll never be the same as she was before.
Beyoncé made a song for the cost of perfection it's called "Pretty hurts" not only ballet is the cost of perfection which leads women to destroy themselves but beauty pageants, and other things that includes beauty, that also includes perfection or beauty can cost people aka women to also break and or push them to far or so far that they mentally and physically break because of imperfections they see in themselves and they want to be Flawless which means they want to be accepted in the world of cold cruel people who only think that imperfections, flaws, are ugly and sins or sinful to be in their world of societies that we see in the world today. Beauty pageants and ballet causes pain, which women will suffer for approval by other people along with the world and the costs are: eating disorders, weight loss or/gain, mental and emotional and physical damage which will be in need of medical treatment of a therapist and or doctor. It can also in my theory can lead the ending lives wether it is theirs or someone elses which can effect other people's family's and friends lives
Very enchanting philosophical and theatrical, everything I love about an art-movie, the explanations are thought provoking, thanks a lot, from Esther in Amsterdam?!?!
Hearing this interpretation and reading comments really blew my mind. What my take on this is women are expected to be "pure" they'll critisize and downplay women who are "unpure" according to them, this pure and unpure definition is really vague but society does it all the time & This really impacts us women's mentallity towards ourselves. I've been brought up in such an environment where unmarried women are considered "bad" If they have a partner. And only religious single ones are praised. Me and my sis, seeing this since we were kid, really started thinking that we have to be that religious girl who never talks to a dude in a manner which shows that we are "bad" girls. When we actually were interested in a guy, we would think so low of ourselves and feel like we are biggest criminal of this world cuz we are interested in him. This is very distrubing tbh A lot of adults also critised young girls who had a boyfriend, I know why adults don't want kids to be in a relationship, but the way they view it is too taboo. As if attraction isn't a natural feeling
I just watched the movie and if you look closely everyone is wearing black or black with white clothes while Nina only wear white/pink in the beginning of the movie in the middle of the movie she wears grey and at the end black
Okay I have a really important question that my teacher and I go back and fourth a lot on. Is Lily even real? I think she is but my teacher thinks other wise. Your thoughts??
I'm not up for a full analysis but I didn't see this as a mere analogy for growing up at all lol. In my opinion it was more of a "character study" of a really mentally unstable person, smothered and shut in by her mother (who projected a lot of her own resentment, disappointment and perfection onto her daughter). It was too much for Nina to bear, really. She was obsessed with the black swan because that's the area where she was imperfect and failing. She wasn't like that/her at all, so she needed to tap into a dark side to get there. In my opinion, her final Black Swan dance wasn't sexy at all but maniacal and mean and scary. Which is more what her "dark" side is (whereas Lily really was just normal, just kinda laid back and sexual and down to earth). Ultimately though to me the movie was watching someone cracking under pressure big time (as a very fragile person seeking perfection), with different psychoses taking over. I'd be willing to buy there is some truth to the "modern Black Swan" theory too. Mixed in with what I said haha. I mean obviously they chose that ballet piece for a reason!
I think she did what it takes to fulfill her dreams at the end she finally fulfilled perfection then dies. She went through a lot of mind games. Good thing her instructor told her what she do to get in character to get rid of her inncense
Your analysis is pretty good. Rather than just sticking to one interpretation, you took it upon yourself to state many. You took into account the context of the story, the history, and the visual effects of the movie. Not everyone will look that deeply into these types of movies. The meaning of the work as a whole is much clearer to me now. Keep up the good work, I'm subscribing.
I could agree with you in almost every point. I don't think, for example, Lily is an ironic name for the character played by Mila Kunis. As far as I understand, she's free of the moral and ethical conventions that surround Nina, therefore meaning she is pure from the social ethics that imprison Nina and don't allow her to play the Black swan at the beginning. So, the concept of purity in the movie does not refer to moral purity, but to the exactly opposite.
You can see another example of this freedom of morals in the Ewan McGregor character in Trainspotting. He doesn't represent or wants to prepresent a model in an ethical sense, so he's pure of that kind of limitation. At the end of the movie, when he decides he wants to live a socially correct life, we see him becoming a lot of blurred lines as the camera doesn't focus on him anymore. However, he continues walking towards the audience, in representation of his approaching to what we morally consider righteousness. Nevertheless, it is that approach that costs him his essence (in the Descartes' sense of the word), because he makes a choice that doesn't match to the ones he's been doing his whole life.
Lily represents the woman she could have been, more than the one she wants to be. Even though she's imperfect she proves good enough to be her double; a fact that shows how futile her quest for perfection is and sinks her deeper into obsession . Another character I find interesting is Beth, she best describes who Nina aspires to be. , Despite how dark her path has proven to be she's obsessed by her and steals and wears her stuffs on her way to self destruction.
well actually in Spanish NINA is a short for Antonina which is a name too. Niña means Little girl as you can see is a completely different thing. I think is time to start using the real sounds the way how is supposed to be. Another example isZoe Saldaña instead of Zoe Zaldana. it just creates confusion or the real message is not well delivere like in this case, He compares Nina with Niña two completely different things.
But how was she killing the last white swan part then if she couldn't anymore? I think it's true that with stabbing the black swan, she became it herself, as stabbing is killing, but after dancing it, she wanted to retreat from that. She saw what she had done, and didn't want it anymore. That is why the body of Lily isn't there anymore when she returns to her changing room. She is, for a brief last moment, the child again. The child, the white swan, that knows that she is going to die, as the stab made her the black swan, forever, whether she wants it or not. Thus, she dances the last white swan part authentically: she, the child, the white swan, dies, stabbed by the black swan in her. Which she is never going to be, as it isn't her. Thus her person itself dies.
I never saw Black Swan as a horror movie. It feels more like a psychological thriller.
thats cause it is... thats literally how its described as on google. no one said it was a horror movie
I never saw beef as a fruit. It feels more like meat.
i told this same shit to my homeboys and they fried me for it.
I identify as bumble bee
But actually psychosis is horror
I think it's very ironic that she dies by the self harm of a mirror. She has been taught to focus on what her performance looks like all her life through mirrors and sees everyone she wants to be through these mirrors and it created a sort of self destruction. It finally ends with the cause of this destruction being her death, maybe something to say about insecurities?
so much
It was confirmed that she doesn't die at the end
u are a genius
@@cupcakekatastrophe5818 you're right. i think it represented her innocence dying
It’s about facing your truths. The mirror represents reflection of self. At least to me I believe
I always interpreted that Nina actually dies in the movie. Mostly because of Winona Ryder's character, Beth. Beth at the start was perfection, she was everything. As she grew older, she was nothing. I think that Beth is the result of going down the dark path that Nina is in. It is a reminder of what will happen. I think Nina did die because by dying, she immortalized herself in her performance. She will always be remembered by how perfect she was.
Although i have only watched the movie once, I agree
I also think that's why she accepted and enbraced it in the end, because she never had to have the fall after the rise.
Weirdly beautiful in a way
But I definitely have to give another watch and see what else I can notice
💯 well said. I see it this way as well, I don’t agree with the interpretation that this video gives because it overlooks just how much Nina was devalued in her life to the point that she would rather die than keep trying so hard to be good enough for others. She both wants to leave on a high note and escape from the hells of her mind. That’s another thing, I see the hallucinations in the movie as her real mental health deteriorating leading to psychosis and eventually suicide. The interpretation in this video treats the hallucinations as pure symbolism, which completely overlooks how much Nina was truly suffering.
Her mother is a representation of a helicopter parent. Helicopter parents refuse to let their children mature, they want them to stay dependent of them. Helicopter parents don't see their children as independent individuals on their own but rather as an extension of themselves.
Why is that called a helicopter parent
@@geotherrmal1639 because they follow you like an helicopter, they're crazy noisy like an helicopter
@@miacaen7764 thank you!
This is also a parent narcissistic personality disorder
@@geotherrmal1639 because they hover over u
I've watched Black Swan so many times and never picked up on the sexual abuse interpretation. It really does make sense. An example is when Nina licks the cake off her mum's finger. I always found that creepy innapropriate. Gives me chills... yuck
Aronofsky is GREAT at creating imagery.
Is it her mom who sexually abused her or her dad? Cuz u never see the dad or even hear him get mentioned. I wonder if he got arrested or something because he was abusive and sexually abusive to his family
@@DavidZ7785 I think it was her mom. There's a scene where she finds her mom crying, she goes to throw the garbage out and starts looking for something. She finds the stick, and tries to block her door, then chickens out and hides the stick. Then her mom shows up in a sexy nightie and says "Are you ready for me?"
Also the scene with Lily, she put the stick in the door to block it before they had sex, when Lily finishes she goes "sweet girl"... then Nina wakes up and the stick is not blocking the door. Someone got up earlier and unblocked that door, and we know it wasn't Lily. When Nina leaves her mother is looking somewhat in shock. I can't help but wonder if it wasn't entirely a hallucination and she was in the room that night. Maybe it never went *that* far before, but I think something was up there.
There is a lot of creepy boundary-crossing- the licking the fingers, the stripping her down, demanding she take her clothes off, most of the bad art Erica made is of herself and Nina; she's completely obsessed with her daughter, she sees her daughter as an extension of herself that she owns, and taking sexual advantage of her daughter would be the ultimate narcissistic act.
@@positivelysimful1283 yeah that makes sense. Thanks for the response
I think her mother was smothering and controlling which is abusive but not sexually
You show that skin tear scene again, and I'm out fam
BASHSAHASK FR I LITERALLY GOT UP FROM MY CHAIR AND WALKED IN CIRCLES IN MY ROOM OUT OF CRINGE
Same. Everytime I see that, I cringe. The pain!
Ikrrrr ?!!!!
FRR THE THOGUHT OF IT PLAYING IN MY MIND MAKE SME FEEL CHILLS
FRR THE THOGUHT OF IT PLAYING IN MY MIND MAKE SME FEEL CHILLS
Lily is the best name for her because she is purely true to herself. Nina is on a quest to find her true self.
ugh genius
And the name NINA means little girl in Spanish
I believe that her mother was responsible for her condition, she was jealous of her and thought Nina more like a way to fulfill her lost dream, like a human vessel for her desires than a daugther. I believe that her mother sexually abused her, everytime Nina was in the bathroom or in her room she tried to block the door, everytime she was around her mother was acting like a little girl even though she is an adult. When Nina refuse to eat cake her mother snapped and overreacted, also the way the mother asked her ''are you ready for me''? it was creepy or everytime she called her ''sweet girl''. Also the scratching i believe was a hint, maybe she harmed her self because she couldn't bare her own skin because of the abuse. And of course the end of the movie, the moment she is about to jump her mother was her focal point, i believe that her death was not only due to her fixation to perfection but also was a way to escape her mother. Overall Nina sufferred from mental distress.
I totally agree
Her mom makes me think of those stage mom's who push their kids into dance or sports so they can live vicariously through them and if the child achieves their dream then so do they.
Crazy how common these mothers actually are.
omg. I thought so too. I was very startled at the scene where her mother takes off Nina's clothes, that was so weird, dont you think?
lol, The movie is open for interpretation but you guys are reading way too much over the "are you ready for me" line .The whole movie her mother has a very overprotective yet passive role, while Nina starts shutting doors and acting violent the moment she gets the swan role (entering adulthood) cause she wants to rebel for her privacy (as every teenager does to their parents especially daughters.
I feel like this move definitely also hold some commentary on the paradoxical standards society has on women. Purity/"Prudeness" vs. Maturity/"Sluttiness", and how girls are forced to become women in the blink of an eye rather than a steady transition.
That's definitely a big part of the movie!
would you rather women be children forever? society puts no standards on women, only you can put a standard on yourself. If you continue to blame others, fine, then women put pressure on other women. Women are the ones that are likely to see both purity and a promiscuous lifestyle as bad.
you dont get it they are saying theres no transitional stage wooow missed point much
@@macklyon7476 "society puts no standards on women"...what? Only someone who doesn't think critically about anything would believe that
And a healthy transition at that....
Anyone else also appreciate the more subtle creepy imagery of Black Swan, such as just how thin Nina is? Obviously ballet dancers are usually thin, but she looks unnervingly skinny, another part of her self-destructive behavior.
Natalie Portman gave an excellent performance, from the physicality to the emotion. A very well deserved Oscar.
Indeed. I'm normally not impressed with her performances (I think she just needs the right director though), but I'd say she deserved the Oscar. Apparently she's very good in Jackie as well, I'll have to see it.
BloodylocksBathory
I'm looking forward to seeing Jackie
Yeah and all of the times she threw up. At first it seemed like it wasn't from nerves but from wanting to be thinner- and the way she rejected the cake her mom bought, no amount was small enough. I thought it was a really good showing of how Nina was anorexic and struggled with insecurity.
i also think that's a literal representation of becoming the role. in the film, nina throws up often & pressures herself in various ways to become the black swan but natalie portman, the actor, has to have starved herself to become this role of nina, who's doing the same to achieve perfection. it's kind of mind blowing but that's also how i interpreted the film: in order to become successful/perfect in the art form you're passionate about, you have to let go of, or in nina's case, stab/kill a part of yourself. the dance director in the film even kept telling nina to let go and live a little because he saw something in her which was a contrast to her outer polished self when she bit his lip. it's accepting & allowing the black swan inside of her to take over in order to be submerged into this role perfectly. "im perfect" were her very last lines of the film as she's bleeding out and it fades to white.
When I first saw Black Swan, I thought about lingering negative societal ideas about female sexuality. Nina must transform, almost like a rapid and grotesque puberty experience, from the white swan -- virginal, innocent, pure -- to the black swan, who is sensual, sexual, and free but portrayed as dangerous. I think much of our society sees a free, sensual, sexual woman who enjoys her sexuality as dangerous...you know, dark -- the dreaded black swan.
That's a good point! It also touches upon how society forces women to grow up too fast or become something they're not. I mean, just by becoming the black swan Nina's already sacrificing so much of herself for the idea of perfection. There's no way to win (pressure to change and be who you aren't + slut-shaming judgment for changing = destruction)
The way to win is by unapologetically being yourself and not changing for others. Or, if you do change, it's because you yourself want to: and is a process you go through on your own terms and at your own pace. Slow and steady wins the race
As a perfectionist, the ending of this movie just scratches the part of my soul that i can't quite reach with my limited being. The pain from the injury at the end is an irrelevance compared to the tranquility of resting on your back with all your muscles relaxed at last, knowing that you have painted something spotless.
I want to add the symbolism we see portrayed through colors of clothing Nina wears. In the beginning of the movie, Nina is surrounded by and dressed in whites and pinks-colors of purity and innocence that are also associated with little girls. As she spirals out of control, losing herself, we see more greys and then ultimately, blacks.
Yes this is so true also Lily is almost always in black or grey
That's a very good point to be noticed as a part of styling and costumes in the whole movie..also it did complement the colour palette of the frames of each shot pretty well ..
We also can see the costumes were pretty straight forward/ given to the character especially colours on nina were mostly in neutrals whereas for Lilly always in blacks and even the gentleman in blacks always.. her mother too..
like whiplash
That's an awesome analogy
I heard a great interpretation that it was about trying to appeasing the dichotomy between being a "good" girl and a "bad" girl when society demands one or the other.
That's a great interpretation!
400th like
Omg, the scene where the pulls her skin off makes me cringe, everytime
First time I actually looked away while watching a movie.
Elyssa Kennedy I didn’t expect it and when I saw it I was like W H AT IS SHE DOINGGGG
Wow, I've never seen so many delicate people. It's like if you never fall and scrape
@@tomj_gmez falling and scraping is nothing compared to peeling off your own skin.
@@tomj_gmez I scraped a chunk of meat off my leg once from falling. I still winced at how she tore her skin off. I don't think having an injury once means being immune to stuff like this lmao
I feel this movie is a beautiful depiction of the emotional and psychological stress that unravels from a person who has no sense of self but has to conform to unachievable perfection. The evolution of the black swan at the demise of the white swan is a running theme in many aspects of contemporary life. To achieve excellence in any art form will always make you balance precariously on the beam of insanity. To find yourself you need to realise you are lost. I adore how the binary polar opposites are contrasted but then are meshed in a linear fashion to leave us in a state that questions our own reality. This movie is an epic master piece!!!!!!
I don't think Lily symbolizes adulthood. I think she symbolizes Nina's repressed side, or her Jungian "shadow". At least in part Nina's mother seems to be responsible for the repressed part of Nina's personality. Ultimately I don't think this is a story of "growth". Nina ends up killing her shadow, stabbing (possibly killing?) herself in the act, emphasizing that the shadow is an integral part of the self and something one cannot run away from or seek to destroy, or one ends up destroying oneself.
Yes!! I had this interpretation too as someone who studies Jung’s work. I felt like the whole concept of the black swan wasn’t adulthood but rather the archetype of Nina’s “dark side” or shadow.. lust, shame, fear of failing, trauma. In the final performance as the black swan her shadow had the wings, I felt like that was a clear message that the black swan was her darker repressed side all along and it took over her. I love this movie
I interpret it as the telling of the first psychotic episode in a patient with schizophrenia. I work in mental health, and a lot of what I hear about is remarkably similar to what Nina experiencing. It comes so close to schizophrenia that I am certain the film writer did some research on the topic before writing this film. Of course, the film does incorporate a lot of symbolism so that more abstract meanings can be be pulled out of it as well. It's a really well thought out story.
I agree, this seemed like a case study of someone with a mental illness being pushed too far and finally breaking.
I absolutely loved this movie. I don't know why, but movies with heavy ambiguity always seem to have this elegance to them, and for Black Swan this was certainly the case. Even though it was some-what traumatic and thriller-like, the movie was still really beautiful. Nice review by the way, the Nina and Lily names and the symbolism is a new fact for me and I felt like that was really interesting. The one thing that puzzled me about the movie is how she was seeing doubles before the trauma began to hit her, towards the beginning of the movie. None the less, I loved the movie and this review.
Thank you so much! If I could give my thoughts on why you love ambiguity-heavy movies, is that they keep the conversation going, you see a Marvel movie, and it may have 15 minutes worth of discussion after it ends, but a movie like this always has a debate and a conversation to be had.
I think that's exactly why haha, I love discussing movies.
I've actually seen black lillies used as a symbol for female sexuality. Black Swan? Black Lily? I figured this was perhaps the connotation they were going for, but it's nice to have varying interpretations.
I think this movie is about how far one will lose one’s self to achieve perfection. A very cautionary tale
I love Lily's difference in body language to Nina's (and all the other dancers) when we first meet her. She confidently and casually walks in with her earbuds in whereas many a ballerina would probably be very nervous meeting a whole team of professional dancers for the first time. Other things I love about this movie: the choice of Barbara Hershey as Nina's mother. The actress definitely shows signs of having had plastic surgery, which fits in perfectly with the role: a mother, feeling robbed of her youth by having a child, is attempting to live vicariously through her daughter. Her hold on Nina is so tight that when Nina said "I'm moving out," I was shocked. Up to that point I really had viewed her as a little girl - I thought, 'where will she go? How can she afford to live?' But then I thought, 'she's a professional ballerina - I'm sure she can afford it', followed by 'does she even have control of her own money?'
A Brazilian youtuber has done a video in which he decrypts symbols that lead to believe that Nina's mom is responsible for her infantilization for more than the whole "being pregnant made me give up on this so you will do what I didn't" thing. There are signs that she abused Nina sexually. Her wanting to stop her daughter from growing up is thus explained because if she has other sexual encounters she might remember of the instances in which her mother abused her. For instance, at the final moment of what she thought to have been sex with Lily, she sees herself standing over her body, and Lily denies ever coming over. And when she woke up, the thing holding the door wasn't there. The only other woman in the apartment was her mom.
So it all really underlines the theme of growing old and into a sick and twisted world.
I'll have to check it out, that's a great interpretation!
even if she didn't go the distance to actually abusing her daughter, the creepiness of the similarity between the symbologies goes to show a little further how much Aronofsky knows his job :~
Luan Oliveira agreed!! After reading a lot of interpretations and rewatching the movie over again, this makes the most sense.
Totally agree with this. Not to mention the fact that a lot of the scenes with Nina and her mother will just cut off. Like when Nina's mother asks "Are you ready for me?" and then shows up in a lingerie-type slip. The scene then just cuts off which seems suspicious to me. In my opinion, there are so many hints of her mother's sexual abuse, and rewatching the film so many times, that I think that was definitely what was happening.
Hello. Could you please tell me the name of the UA-camr? I searched, but I can't find them.
Acting irresponsible like Lily is not adulthood everyone. It is more like rebellious teenhood
Mai Anh It is, from the point of view of Nina. There's where she's and many of us are mistaken I guess.
lily made her own decisions unapologetically and embraced her flaws. something a lot of people who havent mautred are incapable of doing. none the less she did live recklessly but again no one is perfect... thats what makes her a black swan
She wasn't irresponsible thou she was after the same night partying with nina at the rehearsal at time... and dancing beautifully.
I have to say it's not about mature or immature.
It's about class difference. Lily family has moved forward the social ladder so she can afford to have this behavior.
Nina has to be like her mother as she has no choice. At work she is confused how can she compete w ppl like Lily while holding on to mother's value.
Lily's her name cuz she gets confidence from her family to make every wrong look right and pure.
It's her life bro. She prolly knows what she's doing.
I went to school with a girl who has a very weird protética mother. She was 15 but her mother was the one who cut her nails and clean her ears. Nobody told me, I saw.
That girl was considered the most strange girl of our school because she was. Some woman shouldn’t be allowed to be mothers, is almost a crime.
I feel like Lily's purity isn't found in her actions so much as in her drive. She has purity in her enjoyment of dance and in her passion, whereas Nina stuggles in an attempt to force such "purity" in the enjoyment of dance. Nina's purity is in her form, while Lily's purity is in her "feeling". And because that is the kind of purity Nina lacks and requires to achieve perfection, there is an emphasis placed on Lily's particular brand of purity. It is a kind must harder to achieve as it's the purity of authenticity, and therefore can't be practiced or faked.
ninas mental health is a key part in it , her psychosis and hallucinations, etc
i dont really have anything on that its just nice to see a psychotic character not portrayed as outright evil
it showed her being a victim more than anything else.
When I saw the movie all I saw was a girl living in fear. First, she's a dancer just like her mother (I do not think that her mother has forced her into being the star she has never been, as a child Nina choose to believe she has to do it for her mom), she's not living alone even if she can, she stays with her mother, she does not want to be alone or maybe it would not be safe for her to do so? She's controlling herself, her appearance, her world, she let some others controlling herself, she is hurting herself, she's never pleasing herself - because perfection comes with pain, never with pleasure (we all are afraid of losing something that brings us happiness, instead we live in fear of loosing it) - she has no friends because she's afraid to trust anybody. She's living in a world where it's already all black and white. When she's dreaming about being "the star", she meets with Thomas, she's not confident, she's begging for the role, not fighting for it. Meaning she would be ok with a second place role in the ballet. But when she realizes that this dream is becoming REAL she's terrified and that's when she's loosing herself, her control. Somehow she's forced into this "black side" of this "black or white world" she's living in - in her mind - and it is devastating for her. It would be too easy to assume that some characters are evil and she's the innocent one, this is what SHE thinks is true. She's too afraid to live in the real world, so at the end, after the performance, she totally let go of it. Her mind is dying, not her body. And I think, maybe her mom knew she has schizophrenia, and was aware that this sort of nervous breakdown could happen to Nina under pressure. She sees what we don't: her daughter is living in full denial of reality.
Jackie Laurent Yes, her mother asked her "What do you see?!" in one of the last scenes.
Mental abuse is real and you don't know it's abuse if that's how you were raised.
Nina does think in black and white. Tying this mindset to the white swan/black swan role is an interesting observation.
The lesbian sex scene between Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis was the most important part of the movie? Yes, I agree whole-heartedly.
Essential to understanding the film.
That scene would've given birth to the....
GRAY SWAN!
Badum Tss...
THink about it, the symbolism; nothin's black or white, only shades of grey
Youssef A. Nope that scene gave birth to Mandingo
I gotta admit that scene was pretty hot.
Yes
personally i believe that this film is about how striving to reach this idea of “perfection” will one day kill you. throughout the movie we hear Nina continuously say how “she just wants to be perfect” and with her closing line she exclaims “it was perfect” showing how to truly reach what your mind determines as your state of “perfection” you are slowing destroying who you are. The hallucinations Nina has of herself shows her inner battle in reaching this “perfection” and how she is slowly going insane because of this goal.
Natalie's performance as Nina is the most mad, bitwitching, enthralling and beautiful performance I've ever witnessed.
This movie is amazing but you can definitely see that it had major influences from other films such as The red shoes and Perfect Blue.
Undeniably, Darren Aronofsky has mentioned that before, I think he owns the rights to Perfect Blue and incorporated them very well into his movie.
I think it was a very good decision and yes he does own the rights to perfect blue. I wish it was mentioned more though because not a lot of people know about perfect blue.
Great review! But I see the blood as her entry into women hood. I don't think she actually dies but I see the blood as her getting her period and entering into women hood. The little girl is gone and she is now mature a women of her own values
Great interpretation!
lol like in jennifers body when she gets stabbed and asks for a tampon
@@winged4495 LOL so true! I didnt even know this comment was popular lol
@@keishawnlight youtube literally never tells you when you gets likes LOL
Everytime i watch this movie i feel like the whole reflection theme extends further than just mirrors. Ninas body could be a more tangible representation of her mental health: as we see her rash spreading, so is her anxiety over performing. As breaks her nails, we can see her grasp of reality fracturing as toma gives lily the role of the black swan. This movie is one of my favorites thematically, cinematographically, and visually.
I think Lily was never actually there or she wasn't there in half of the movie. Cuz in some parts of the movie when Lily is there w/Nina & some other person or ppl. They don't acknowledge Lily being there. Also in some scenes Nina sees Lily as herself when she looks at her. When I first watched this movie & even several times. I didn't pay enough attention to the little details in this movie till I kept watching it over the past 8-9 years now. I think Lily was one of the character that Nina created in her head.
To me lily could have been a personification of Nina’s shadow self and Nina was afraid of confronting that dark side “black swan” part of herself hence why she was so afraid of lily “stealing her role” aka the dark parts of her taking over.
I noticed that throughout the movie as seen in Nina’s perspective, lily was the antagonist, but really Nina was the antagonist to herself all along
But also I can acknowledge how abusive Nina’s mom was to her along with the teacher
Another idea: the black swan is an eating disorder (only eats half a grapefruit as breakfast, vomiting, doesn´t want to eat the cake, refuses going to eat out with Lilly, the backstage lady commenting "you lost weight. Great.") and although it helps her effectively in reaching the goal of beeing loved perfect it destroys her mind and finally her body. Like it had destroyed Beth. That´s also why she stole Beth´s stuff, those were the eating habits and disordered thoughts she copied from her. She is working out obsessively. She doesn´t recognise herself in the mirror and feels like her reflection is her enemy, which can be interpreted as body dismorphia. She feels like she is competing with another girl, she considers "better" than her, even though she is not actually threatening to her and her role at any time, it is all just in her head. Comparing yourself to girls you think are more pretty, talented or skinny is a big thing when you have an eating disorder. It´s the disorder that makes Lilly her enemy, not real life. That´s why Lilly is associated with the black swan and thats also where the ambiguity in Lilly´s character comes from. And finally you could say, that the whole performance of Swan Lake represents her entire life. It is all just a show, don´t make mistakes, be perfect, be the black swan, at all costs. That is why the screen in the end fades to white, she is getting healthy again :)
i was surprised that ive never seen anyone correlate her eating disorder to her madness. she BARELY eats, and what she did eat she threw up.. thats gotta take a toll on your mental health. it messes with ur memory and brings u to the brink of insanity, i feel like that was a major contributing factor to her madness
I just watched this movie for the first time and it's so beautiful and tragic. I cried at the end.
I love the way you explained the movie, especially with the representation of the character names and mirrors
This is the only analysis I found which covers everything that kept me puzzeled about the movie and explains it perfectly. Well done!
I loved this film. It was so intense at times and brutally real.
This is more like an American version of Perfect Blue which ironically is where some of the source material came from. But in the end, Nina didn't destroy the illusion, she embraced it finally losing in a world where she contently struggles up to the point where the end of the race means death.
This was an excellent review. I see it from the second point of view (mostly). The lengths that people will go to get what they want, when you get there its not what you thought it would be and that there is always a price and life always come back to collect
that can't be true cause she seemed satisfied at the end. "perfect. i felt it, perfect"
Can't wait for your video on "mother!"- I saw it, and felt it was a little contrived, but it has managed to get stuck in my head for sure.
I may be seeing this film on a very base level, but after re watching it I came to the same conclusion as my first viewing when it came out.
Nina is trying to become something that she has been told, by her mother, is wrong or dirty. The same as some very religious families would tell their son or daughter about being gay. When she starts to let go and become the Black Swan she finds she enjoys some of the "bad" things and it causes her to loose grip on who she is anymore. She tries to purge her urges and in the end she dies trying. Nina didn't realise that there's room for both a lighter side and a darker side to a person and when to let either part take control. In not letting both co-exist she destroyed herself.
That's just the jist that I took away and I know a lot of the film is subjective and anyone can see what they will. I hope my thoughts offer an interesting take.
Great analysis! As a Film Studies student I subbed and will enjoy watching more of your content, Jack. :)
Thank you! Welcome to the team!
I had always wanted to watch Black Swan, so when you said you were doing a review on it I watched it. Great movie. Alot of little meaning behind everything shown in the movie. I think you would be able to do a whole hour review on in and still touched the surface. But great review Jack you brought up most of the points I had.
Thanks Steve! I'm glad I was able to recommend a great movie to you! This movie does offer a lot of discussion, there is a LOT that you could say about it, I generally try to keep these on the shorter side, but will be doing a couple of longer ones in the next few months.
I found this film so heartbreaking I don't think can watch it again for a few years.
Great review! Seems to me the main theme of this movie is that due to external forces (her new role & boss) Nina is being pressured to integrate her shadow (which is the part of us that we unconsciously reject & disown due to socialization & shaping by parents, family, social group, society, etc...the black swan represents the shadow). And because Nina is already mentally unstable, is motivated to integrate her shadow for the wrong reasons (please others, success, perfectionism) and because the integration process is being forced too quickly and without proper understanding & support it creates a psychological crisis, elevates the symptoms of her mental illness & results in a tragic psychotic breakdown. I also feel the relationship with her narrsacistic mother is key to understanding how Nina's shadow developed in the first place (imagine as a child what aspects of Nina's personality she had to repress inorder to continue to receive love & care from her overbearing, demanding, controlling, hovering, infantalizing, emotionally reactive/abusive mother). I believe that when we have not integrated our shadow aspects, we tend to have more of an emotional charge (both positive & negative) to people who display our shadow aspects...Nina's mother, her boss Thomas, Lilly, Veronica & Beth).
White swan = training wheels on a bike.
Black swan = no training wheels on bike.
Just pure intuitive energy. you trust yourself that you’ll not fall off the bike without the training wheels on and even if you do fall, you trust that you’ll get back up and pedal forward to wherever you’re headed to.
Best review of this movie i've ever seen
I like your commentary on this film. When I originally saw it, I recognized immediately that it was, in many ways, a retelling of the "Hero's Journey" story so familiar in many films - however instead of Nina delving unto the underworld in search of the hidden treasure and eventually returning to the normal world as the enlightened fool, she remains forever in the underworld, being consumed and ultimately destroyed by it. It is definitely a journey into addiction, as you mention, and the addiction clearly defeats her - although you could construe the moment at the end of the film in which she is dying as a return to her innocence, albeit for a brief moment of clarity before death overtakes her.
Addiction in general can lead down that path I believe, driving someone to the point in which when they finally see the truth of their addiction, it is too late for them - the addiction has conquered them. Up until that point, there is the delusion that they can "stop before it's too late" and that they are still in control. I believe that is why many famous people end up in a cesspool of drug addiction - simply because after they have achieved fame (their first very powerful, consuming addiction and conquest) they are left feeling empty and end up replacing that addiction with another. Eventually their addictive nature reveals itself, usually too late.
That's a great interpretation I never thought of it that way, but now that you mention it, it begins to follow the hero's journey, but diverts itself halfway through the film!
i feel that Lily is named Lily because Nina obviously has some sort of psychotic issues (which comes to view when her reality starts to blur) also, I think that it takes the "suffering artist" narrative to a whole new level (In DK we have a saying that goes "Exaggeration provokes understanding" or something like that) which I also think is very relevant to generally our world, but showbusiness in particular. I really like your interpretation with the swan lake told in a modern way though.
Thank you!
my favourite film of all time!!!!!
Just finished it, fantastic bro
best explanation on UA-cam Period. THANK YOU
Eu pessoalmente acho que a interpretação tem muito que ver com o seu final. “Eu fui perfeita”. Essa é a maior das verdades do filme, ela foi absolutamente perfeita. As pessoas viram-na como a personificação da perfeição e acho que é uma das maiores analogias do filme. A perfeição é supérflua. O que se trata realmente da perfeição? As coisas às quais ela nos levas e consequentemente, o facto dela ser, nada mais nada menos, que inatingível.
I thought her hallucinations about lily were sexually driven not just symbollically. I felt like she had a sexual attraction to women which she had to surpress to be the perfect, innocent white swan. Since lilly was a black swan i think it was also about not only did she want to be with her sexually, but wanted to be her too. Usually its one or the other so i felt like they were saying it was both which was interesting. I wish you would have touched more on how the head ballet guy sexually exploited her. That was creepy. I need to see this movie again its been forever.
This is a hell of a ride about descendance into CRAZY . Masterfully and artistically done as the movie IS literally the story of the ballet The Black Swan. Some of the scenes are terrifying, especially surrounding Nina's home life with her mother. Who would ever think Barbera Hershey could play so creepy?
Great film, sure there are subtexts of rebellion, the suffocating / overbearing mother, these are all parts of Nina's struggles. These all lead to a 'breaking point' in Nina's psyche, as the mirror breaks, her mind is as well, and reality and fantasy become intertwined in hallucinations and madness. I loved the third act the most, its a great 'payoff', the subtle special effects, and the beautiful makeup. When I first saw the image of the US movie poster I was blown away by it. Definitely one of Darren Aronofsky best and is definitely worth the watch.
Watched this yesterday and was very enthralled by it!! Really good movie that makes you think!
What has not been talked about is her mother's emotional coldness which is only broken through her daughter's utter devotion to being 'perfect' as a dancer. Thus Nina has never really grown up into an autonomous person. In her mother's eyes, her daughter is just a means to vicariously experience the fame she so desperately wanted but was denied by becoming pregnant. Thus Nina was never a complete personality to begin with. The pressures in the role she dances in the ballet - coupled with a coming of age experience which catapults her into becoming a mature personality, are just too much for her fragile personality and she descends into psychosis
I liked the movie when I watched it in grade 13, although I found it very terrifying at the same time
The only thing I got was that perfection came with a price - but I always felt like there was more the movie, even if I can't quite pinpoint what the message was
Your interpretation filled in all the blanks for me - 8 years after the release of the movie
Hell, isn't that satisfying?
Thanks man!
I do love this film. But I have to admit, I do vastly prefer THE RED SHOES. Which this film takes a lot from
I like The Red Shoes, but some of it feels a little bit outdated. I prefer Black Swan, but I also saw it first so that may have had something to do with it.
I agree! And, as a ballet dancer, I also think the red shoes is a more worthy interpretation of the reality in ballet
Adriano Vazquez black swan is basically the western version on perfect blue
I prefer perfect blue
Adriano Vazquez I haven’t seen red shoes but like the above comment, a lot of the concept and even some shots are identical to that of perfect blue.
1:44 - shades of David Cronenberg and early David Lynch. Love the movie. It already works perfectly when taken at surface value (someone on their way to insanity, trying to achieve perfection). As usual: great analysis and fresh insight!
This is a movie that is heavily influenced by others, what makes Aronofsky so great is that he is able to use other works and make them great.
Recently watched that movie, it’s ironically perfection
I have one interpretation but im not sure how substantiated it is because a lot of evidence lays in her hallucinations but it still seems like a pretty blatant interpretation to me. This being, lilly is the black swan, nina is the white swan, and the role of swan queen is the prince that breaks the curse. Where lilly plays into this is that she is trying to take the role away from nina kind of like how the black swan takes the prince away from the white swan, but nina needs the role to really fulfill becoming a black swan so therefore if she doesnt have the role then she can't successfully mature and move on in her life (which would be the equivalent of the white swan killing herself). The flaw with this is many of the reasons why nina thinks that lilly is trying to take the role from her happen in hallucinations, however, as the viewer we really dont know what was real and what wasnt (so the sex scene could have been real maybe?) or it can just be a different battle going on inside nina's mind as one interpretation and then the interpretation of her battling to become a black swan is whats actually happening to her outside he mind. So for example lilly coming to nina's apartment only happened inside nina's mind so that's why only she sees it as the black swan (lilly) taking a necessary thing from the white swan (nina).
The Black Swan terrified me as a child, but then it gives me the realization of death.
Best analysis of this movie by far. Really enjoyed it
Possibly the most disturbing horror movie ever.
It really is one of my favorites, horribly disturbing, with a great story!
And this may be a crazy question: Is Lily not a real person, but just a figment of Nina's paranoid imagination? I had a feeling about that...maybe I'm stretching.
Wake up ppl this film is copied from perfect blue
@@dromeda6066 no, the director got the rights to perfect blue and incorporated some of the themes into his own movie. they share some similarities, sure, but they're both still their own movie
is lily real? or a figment of ninas imagination like fight club.
I'm not sure how simple it is, I think she more or less embodies the theme, on a narrative level, she is real, but Nina does hallucinate seeing her throughout the film.
Lily is real when know this because the other characters have interactions with her. Thomas mentions Lily by name.
It's very telling how many different ways people can skew this movie into different, shall we say, themes. Some say it shows a young woman's fall into schizophrenia, others OCD and self-control, some say a victim of sexual abuse, other's say coming into womanhood, and even some saying that the movie shows societal fear of a woman gaining and keeping control of her sexuality. All seem to have good points, but you have to wonder just where they got those specific views. It also goes to show that every single person can see the same exact thing, in the same exact manner, from the same exact point, and still see a completely different scenario.
I think it’s about how Nina’s shadow was never given a chance to see the light because of her mothers expectations of her; her losing all touch with her authentic self by acting how she wants her to be, merely as a protective mechanism. I see her trying to embrace her dark side/ shadow self but is unable to in the middle of the movie, but gets fed up towards the end and with everything going on around her she becomes tired of holding back and starts to let that side of her out. In the final performance that side takes over completely instead of just integrating with her hence her dying
The black swan is a very good movie I can see it over and Nina role is so true there are a lot of women that r going thru that
awesome analysis!
I find connection between Black Swan and the version of Swan Lake the movie bases on.
The first time the prince in swan lake saw the white swan he aimed an arrow on her but then got fascinated by her humane beauty just like Nina's ballet coach did (can't recall his name), he was cruel to her in the addition, he saw the white swan of her but not her as a human being.
Lily is Odile, a person who the Prince who's the ballet coach mistook between her and the white swan queen and danced with Odile and Odette who's the white swan saw that just like Nina saw the man she started to love having sex with Lily and at the end, when Odette acknowledge that she'll never be human again she killed herself just like Nina did when she lost her mind and knew that she'll never be the same as she was before.
underrated af, this movie slaps
Beyoncé made a song for the cost of perfection it's called "Pretty hurts" not only ballet is the cost of perfection which leads women to destroy themselves but beauty pageants, and other things that includes beauty, that also includes perfection or beauty can cost people aka women to also break and or push them to far or so far that they mentally and physically break because of imperfections they see in themselves and they want to be Flawless which means they want to be accepted in the world of cold cruel people who only think that imperfections, flaws, are ugly and sins or sinful to be in their world of societies that we see in the world today. Beauty pageants and ballet causes pain, which women will suffer for approval by other people along with the world and the costs are: eating disorders, weight loss or/gain, mental and emotional and physical damage which will be in need of medical treatment of a therapist and or doctor. It can also in my theory can lead the ending lives wether it is theirs or someone elses which can effect other people's family's and friends lives
Beautiful explanation....
Great Video! I have a theory, that Lily isn't real, but Nina imagines her. Kind of like Nina's Tyler Durden. What do you think of this?
A great interpretation, I definitely think there are a few "layers" of ambiguity in the movie.
Very enchanting philosophical and theatrical, everything I love about an art-movie, the explanations are thought provoking, thanks a lot, from Esther in Amsterdam?!?!
THE HANGNAIL SCENE
I believe her mother has played Cora on the Once Upon A Time tv show.
Yes she did😄
Hearing this interpretation and reading comments really blew my mind. What my take on this is women are expected to be "pure" they'll critisize and downplay women who are "unpure" according to them, this pure and unpure definition is really vague but society does it all the time & This really impacts us women's mentallity towards ourselves.
I've been brought up in such an environment where unmarried women are considered "bad" If they have a partner. And only religious single ones are praised. Me and my sis, seeing this since we were kid, really started thinking that we have to be that religious girl who never talks to a dude in a manner which shows that we are "bad" girls. When we actually were interested in a guy, we would think so low of ourselves and feel like we are biggest criminal of this world cuz we are interested in him. This is very distrubing tbh
A lot of adults also critised young girls who had a boyfriend, I know why adults don't want kids to be in a relationship, but the way they view it is too taboo. As if attraction isn't a natural feeling
Honestly, I just see it as a young woman going mad in the pursuit of perfection, which leads to her ending her own life.
The finger scene I’m gonna throw up shit damn!!!
Can anyone think of the reason why Nina won't eat the cake? I didn't understand that part? She says something about stitches.
I just watched the movie and if you look closely everyone is wearing black or black with white clothes while Nina only wear white/pink in the beginning of the movie in the middle of the movie she wears grey and at the end black
As someone who suffers with eating disorders, I can see that bone thin is always "in" no matter what part U play.
Okay I have a really important question that my teacher and I go back and fourth a lot on. Is Lily even real? I think she is but my teacher thinks other wise. Your thoughts??
I'm not up for a full analysis but I didn't see this as a mere analogy for growing up at all lol. In my opinion it was more of a "character study" of a really mentally unstable person, smothered and shut in by her mother (who projected a lot of her own resentment, disappointment and perfection onto her daughter). It was too much for Nina to bear, really. She was obsessed with the black swan because that's the area where she was imperfect and failing. She wasn't like that/her at all, so she needed to tap into a dark side to get there. In my opinion, her final Black Swan dance wasn't sexy at all but maniacal and mean and scary. Which is more what her "dark" side is (whereas Lily really was just normal, just kinda laid back and sexual and down to earth). Ultimately though to me the movie was watching someone cracking under pressure big time (as a very fragile person seeking perfection), with different psychoses taking over.
I'd be willing to buy there is some truth to the "modern Black Swan" theory too. Mixed in with what I said haha. I mean obviously they chose that ballet piece for a reason!
I haven't read all the comments yet but so far yours is the only one I find myself agreeing with almost completely.
Black Swan is definitely about transformation and how society, traditions or child hood trauma keeps us from achieving that transformation.
I think she did what it takes to fulfill her dreams at the end she finally fulfilled perfection then dies. She went through a lot of mind games. Good thing her instructor told her what she do to get in character to get rid of her inncense
Your analysis is pretty good. Rather than just sticking to one interpretation, you took it upon yourself to state many. You took into account the context of the story, the history, and the visual effects of the movie. Not everyone will look that deeply into these types of movies. The meaning of the work as a whole is much clearer to me now.
Keep up the good work, I'm subscribing.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed!
amazing review
I could agree with you in almost every point. I don't think, for example, Lily is an ironic name for the character played by Mila Kunis. As far as I understand, she's free of the moral and ethical conventions that surround Nina, therefore meaning she is pure from the social ethics that imprison Nina and don't allow her to play the Black swan at the beginning. So, the concept of purity in the movie does not refer to moral purity, but to the exactly opposite.
You can see another example of this freedom of morals in the Ewan McGregor character in Trainspotting. He doesn't represent or wants to prepresent a model in an ethical sense, so he's pure of that kind of limitation. At the end of the movie, when he decides he wants to live a socially correct life, we see him becoming a lot of blurred lines as the camera doesn't focus on him anymore. However, he continues walking towards the audience, in representation of his approaching to what we morally consider righteousness. Nevertheless, it is that approach that costs him his essence (in the Descartes' sense of the word), because he makes a choice that doesn't match to the ones he's been doing his whole life.
That is one way to view it, I restated my analysis of her name a little
bit later (she went through a change) but thanks for letting me know!
Lily represents the woman she could have been, more than the one she wants to be. Even though she's imperfect she proves good enough to be her double; a fact that shows how futile her quest for perfection is and sinks her deeper into obsession . Another character I find interesting is Beth, she best describes who Nina aspires to be. , Despite how dark her path has proven to be she's obsessed by her and steals and wears her stuffs on her way to self destruction.
This is one of the best films of all time
*lesbian scene comes up*
This is one of the most important parts of the movie
Mhmm i bet
well actually in Spanish NINA is a short for Antonina which is a name too. Niña means Little girl as you can see is a completely different thing. I think is time to start using the real sounds the way how is supposed to be. Another example isZoe Saldaña instead of Zoe Zaldana. it just creates confusion or the real message is not well delivere like in this case, He compares Nina with Niña two completely different things.
Hey, what does subtext mean in Spanish?
But how was she killing the last white swan part then if she couldn't anymore? I think it's true that with stabbing the black swan, she became it herself, as stabbing is killing, but after dancing it, she wanted to retreat from that. She saw what she had done, and didn't want it anymore. That is why the body of Lily isn't there anymore when she returns to her changing room. She is, for a brief last moment, the child again. The child, the white swan, that knows that she is going to die, as the stab made her the black swan, forever, whether she wants it or not. Thus, she dances the last white swan part authentically: she, the child, the white swan, dies, stabbed by the black swan in her. Which she is never going to be, as it isn't her. Thus her person itself dies.