Recovering Arrows/Ammunition in D&D 5e | Nerd Immersion
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Did you know that there's a rule for recovering shot arrows/bolts/sling bullets? Yup, there is and it's in the Player's Handbook. There's also information about using your bow/arrows as melee weapons!
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I am a stickler for ammo management. Have a system for ammo recovery: keep track of ammunition fired. Get dice closest to number of shots fired. You recover what you roll plus whatever isn't covered by dice. I.e. shot eleven arrows, roll a d10. Roll a seven. You get seven arrows back, and since eleven is one more than ten, you get that arrow back as well, so you recover eight shots.
Heavy crossbow is an improvised heavy club, longbow/light crossbow are improvised one handed quarterstaffs, loaded sling, shortbow and hand crossbow are improvised clubs, arrows are improvised daggers which break if used this way, bolts are same but don't break.
honestly I just can't be fucked to bother with it unless my players are dead-set on playing that very tactical very range based game where they try and kite everything I throw out them. then sure, we'll have a shoot out. but yeah especially for high level pc's it just isn't a big deal imo. maybe ask a pc about it if I remember kind of thing
I use this system as well, except I just make up the number used at the end of combat; usually 1d4 to 1d6 for a short combat (1-3 rounds), 1d8 to 1d12 for a little more rounds and then any combination of two dice for 10 or more rounds. We can't be bothered with tracking how many arrows or bolts are shot during the battle.
I've been a fan of "The Angry GM" solution to the ammo question.
TL:DR
Your Schrodinger's quiver has x arrows in it. (To account for magically larger quivers)
If you Miss or Crit, the arrow is lost. Mark the arrow as gone. Regular hits are fine and don't "break" the arrow. You can keep firing until your last arrow is lost.
After that, you have expended all the arrows you have with you and you now need to get creative.
When you are next in town/GM choice, you notice that your quiver is completely empty.
Go buy a new set of arrows to resupply your quantum Quiver for the next leg of your adventure.
This is much tidier and doesn't break the flow of the game to roll mostly arbitrary dice to see how many 5 copper coin arrows you recover.
This doesn't affect enhanced/magical arrow because they're generally 1 use anyway.
I've seen an ammunition system in GiffyGlyph's Darker Dungeons that was a pretty neat concept.
When you have a full quiver of arrows, instead of keeping track of each arrow, you roll a d20 instead. If you roll 3+, you keep the d20; but if you roll a 1-2, the d20 downgrades into a d12. You repeat this process until the d4 rolls a 1-2 or you restock your arrows.
(You track magical ammo as per normal rules.)
I use this system, but max dice is d12
@@mikeg8564
You're right, d12 was the ammo die. The d20 was from buying an ammo die increase.
Is that for ammo recovery or fired? I hope that's for recovery because if that's for fired, it's horrible.
@@alexanderkreczkevich8100
It's a system for simplifying the tracking of each shot and then recovering 50% (rounded down) of your fired ammo.
So instead of expending 1 ammo per attack, you just roll a d12, which represents the firing and recovery step. If you roll a 1-2 on a d4, you're then on your last piece of ammo.
While the simplification can make your ammo count "swingy" if you roll consecutive low rolls, but it does reduce the paperwork of ammo tracking.
Here are the odds of rolling 3+ on the dice:
Dice Size: Roll % (average # of attacks)
D20: 90% (30)
D12: 83% (20)
D10: 80% (14)
D8: 75% (9)
D6: 66% (5)
D4: 50% (2)
The standard system gives a guaranteed 30 (20 + 10 recovered) attacks per pouch but this alternative grants you 6 (all lowest rolls possible) to 51 (added averages) attacks.
One of my players is a Half-Elf Warlock (Hexblade) who specializes in Longbow attacks. When she would attempt to recover arrows, she would find some that were broken, and she started using the Mending Cantrip to repair any arrows she recovered that weren't broken too badly.
In my group the Ranger player usually gets half of her arrows after every battle. Also, when enemy archers were involved, I allow her to pick up some of their arrows as well.
Part of the ammo recovery that I've seen is you can also use mending to increase the amount you recover. Since some is lost and then some is broken
Though since Mending takes a minute to cast per cast I'd probably say you can store the pieces and Mend them as part of the light activity of a Long Rest if applying that. There's also the optional use for Woodcarving Tools in Xanathar's to make a few as part of a Short Rest and more as part of a Long if you're in an area with enough suitable wood easily accessible
My first character was a Ranger and My group knew and used there rules. Although we don’t track weight. I did eventually just buy like 100 arrows but still kept track.
I didn’t stab anyone with an arrow but when my bow string broke I was throwing arrows like darts while using swift quiver in the Final battle of the campaign.
Thankfully we don’t use critical fumbles anymore tho.
Arrow... finesse, but if you think about it, it may also break, they aren't made for durability.
It breaks on a critical miss.
@@Jayvee4635 it’s more like half of them break upon impact, hence only being able to recover half of them. Hitting a thick target can bend an arrow so badly that you can’t shoot it again
Indestructable ammunition is a magical item after all.
Melee with an arrow should be as a dagger except 50% chance it breaks.
In my games, it is assumed that PCs find minor items outside of treasure that can be sold to pay for stuff like having your sword sharpened, food, ammo, material components, etc. All you have to do is buy the basic gear (quivers, spell component pouch, a weeks worth of rations) once, and I assume you keep it stocked for a negligible cost.
It's a heck of a lot easier on both me and my players that way.
EDIT: I DO have my PCs track magical ammo and costly material components.
Agreed. The way I explain it to people is that the characters are professional adventurers/merceneries/whatever, the players are not. It's not unreasonable to think that someone would restock/resupply their equipment when running low, etc, as this is a basic day-to-day necessity for the characters. however it is reasonable to assume the players may not remember to do this.
I would let a player us an arrow as a non-finesse dagger in melee.
I played a drow gloomstalker before and I had two cases of crossbow bolts, a hand crossbow, and the crossbow expert feat.
This rule was very handy for the long runs and let me get away with burning more ammo than I would normally be able to which was fantastic! Plus if you have the time to do it I certainly believe you should just for the fact you'll be saving money by recovering ammo you've spent or even just hearing the DM say "They shoot their crossbow at X" and immediately just looting the bolts off their corpse.
My first (and so far only) time DMing my rule for ammo management was Roll a number of dice equal to the number of arrows/bolts fired. For every even number rolled you get an arrow back. 50/50 loss/recovery. Worked well and our archer only came close to running out when it was a long time between opportunities to buy more.
I would count the arrow as a dagger.
Daggers are OP as it is with beneficial tags
Why can I throw A knife with a bonus action but not a dart?
simple ranged weapon
The whole thing about tracking ammo and players just buying an absurd amount of it to get around tracking it, from my experienc, comes down to how available it is to get more.
In addition it's a good idea to think about how somebody is transporting their ammunition. A quiver holds 20 arrows, so arrows/20=# of quivers needed (without a bag of holding).
If you've ever worn a handmade quiver you'd know that they can be quite awkward to carry multiple at a time and still complete other actions.
At most you can comfortably get away with 2 quivers.
Then at any time a character has a maximum of 40 arrows.
Additionally arrows are long and poorly kept in a loose space like a backpack so they shouldn't be kept there.
The recovering of ammo is especially important when its special ammo (i.e silver-tipped arrows).
My Ranger generally only tracks all the special trick and magical arrows he's got, the ones that aren't simply general basic arrows. Those we usually assume he restocks in town or recovers enough after battle for it to not matter in most situations.
However, our last several campaign sessions involved a major, multi-prong attack on a capital city by BBEG. My character generally has 60-ish normal arrows (yay Quiver of Holding!) plus his costlier trick/magical ones, and the amount of consecutive combats we were in against strong enemies meant it became apparent his normal stock was not going to last. It was a series of massive fights where we simply had to mind our party resources because there were so many major and minor targets all over. So...during battle and between battle he had to basically find a shop to rob in town to restock. He just threw some coins on the counter to cover them, since most civilians were running for their lives or sheltering in specific safe spots.
Love the obscure rules videos. Although I knew these and use them, it's always good to get a refresher.
Melee attack with an arrow/bolt? I'd say anyone proficient with any bow/crossbow would be able to stab/poke with it. 1d4 piercing using Strength, because if you want finesse just whip out a dagger - it'd be the same base roll for damage.
Of course, now I want to mount a bayonet on a heavy crossbow. Just in case.
Seems reasonable to me
An arrow as an improvised weapon does seem like a dagger...
Don't forget Xanathar's p. 139 has unbreakable arrows - common magic item.
An excellent point!
A Dart
All I read was stab stab stab
I give infinite ammo to characters who have the Survival skill... And sometimes they remember to say, hey I'll make 10 bolts for the fighter... Sometimes they don't (of course if they said an absurd number like 50 I'd RP accordingly like you just camped there gathering materials and making arrows the whole day). We also agree that players don't need to tell me they are going to recover the 1/2 ammo they shot either, I just check on their sheets later.
improvised weapon 1d4 because unarmed strike is 1 and I think arrow would hurt more than fist even when used as piercing weapon. How to actually do so? You take hold close to the arrow head, not on the middle and have the arrow pointing down so you can strike with more power from above. I would allow it but roll 1 and it brakes.
I as DM and as Player ask from DM to run like this: Any normal arrow is an arrow you automatically keep on your self. You buy enough arrows automatically to have enough arrows with you for whole adventure and get them back automatically. But. When you get +1 arrows or utility arrows like Smoke arrow (yes, we like to rewards arrows that have other uses for Archers) you must keep count of them. This idea comes from Divinity: Original Sin 1 game where you default have infinite arrows but once you get explosive arrow that is different story. . . .
-Explosive arrow is 10ft from a point which can be a enemy which would deal more dmg explodes on impact causing 2d6 fire dmg in the area. So Enemy would first take the dmg from arrow like normal and then explore 2d6 extra dmg.
So far we play so little with 4 games a year past 2 years that where I have been player in 3 games that Explosive arrow has been given once used once and nothing else have been.
Anyone can make poison arrow just by dipping the arrow head. But making an smoke bomb and adding it to arrow is another story :D Then there is just fire arrow which needs to have some kind of fuse that can burn when it flies so you can't just burn arrow head and shoot fire arrow :^) you need bit more . . . like oiled towel over the arrow head.
We ignore anything that slows game too much and house rule those away without hurting the immersion. It would make sense you carry enough arrows with you to last the whole battle if that was your primary weapon and you probably can make basic arrows if is forest near by ^_^
My DM and I have an understanding, I collect my javelins after every battle.
There are a few times we both acknowledge an action will wreck a javelin beyond repair.
Acid, fire, and cliff faces. Been there my man.
@@DaDunge to be fair handaxes and daggers are sturdier fair than arrows and bolts
High Elf with mending cantrip, and a little time, might only loose an arrow on a 1, or maybe a 20.... Arrow head stuck in the scull, can't be retrieved...
I have a homebrew rule to recovery ammo. An arrow or bolt have to be carfully removed from where is stuked. For that you must make a DC 15 Dexterity (Slyght of Hand) chec to each peace you can track. In a suscesfull chack the arrow/bolt is recoverd and in a fail check the arrow/bolt tip breaks and become useless
As someone that uses a bow in real life in can tell you with most certainty, that you can stab people/creatures with an arrow. With that being said, depending on factors like what the arrow is made of, the angle of the stab, density of muscle and bone of the person/creature being stabbed, etc., there is a very good chance the arrow will break at some point during the motion (In the scene with legolas mentioned notice how his wrist is bent and how he holds the arrow as to no break during the stab).
I've played in campaigns the DM/GM would treat this as a dagger but then would roll a d10 (or some other percentage dice) to see if it breaks the arrow, accounting for the previously said factors.
For example: during an escape attempt from a bandit camp, my human stabbed the human bandit guarding him in the throat, then tried to do the same to his dwarven bandit buddy. My character succeed in stabbing both with 1 arrow but broke it on the dwarf due to the height difference. If I remember the DM's words correctly I only had a 20% chance of not breaking it on the dwarf but a 50% chance on the human.
Also in my opinion, I hate the improvised weapons rule. It can make being hit by two completely different objects the same as each other. (Like being hit by a wooden cooking spoon the same as being hit by a table leg.) I know its a fantsy game but it make some things not make sense which can ruin it for me.
I'd never do this as when they do run out of arrows for a (cross)bow based PC I'm saying to them "okay, pack up your things and leave, you can't play the game any more" and as we get CLOSE to that point there will be endless petty arguments over whether an arrow could be recovered or not. Suddenly we're not playing the game, half the time is a player desperately trying to stop themselves being soft-locked out of engaging in the adventure.
I'll go to any lengths to avoid that. I'd make sure they found a huge stockpile of arrows and just say "all the arrows you could ever need" and have it put in a bag of holding.
The only place I'd have an arrow limit is to put a limit on how many are immediately available to immediately load. So they may have an essentially unlimited supply of arrows at the bottom of their bag-of-holding but their quiver only holds a certain number of arrows at a time.
But you can limit arrows as part of a SPECIFIC combat challenge where the challenge clearly presents a solution for the problem I created.
For example they are disarmed and there are dead archers scattered everywhere, each with only a few arrows left in their quiver. I'd then challenge the player that they couldn't stay in one spot, they'd have to keep moving from position to position to get more arrows from the slain archers. I'd say that if they were adjacent to the quiver on the ground they could pick up an arrow from the quiver at no extra cost as part of bow attacks but it was an action to detach a quiver and also an action to take all the arrows out of a quiver and put them in his own quiver. So there's a dilemma "do I spend an action to just stay here and shoot OR do I Instead try to accumulate arrows and book it?"
I might say the arrow is like a rapier to an extent (if they’re proficient)... long, thin pointy. So they could add proficiency, but still 1d4.
Rule of Cool. I'd 100% allow melee arrow attacks as improvised weapons, and even allow the whole 'melee attack to kill, then shoot that arrow at someone else'.
I think the only situations where I'd stop allowing that, would be in a situation with very strict ammo management (since ppl that want realism would expect the arrow to get stuck or snap on impact), or in a situation where a PC does this once, then decides they want to do something stupid like develop the 'arrowfu' fighting style.
tracked my ammo in 3.5 it was a giant pain in the ass esp for my Flask launcher (a crossbow that can fire flasks of liquid including holy water super handy in Barovia)
I forgot the final rule from Ammunition, I did than you can look for many of them with Wis(Perc) check, but not on sea or other similar circumstances. The original rule makes sense. Or the check to do the same more quickly.
id say using an arrow is still 1d4 cuse its not a big blade when i think dagger or knife doing 1d6 i think of a big rondel dagger or a war seax but if they have longbow/crossbow proficiency id let them use proficiency in addition to str mod cuse familiarity with the structural integrity of the ammunition piece. however if you want o get hyper realistic maybe a bolt is 1d6 because bolts are very stout irl.
I'd say d4 strength on the arrow unless they had crossbow expert, then its just reflavoring the attack
Edit, and if we are tracking ammo, I also let that be used as one arrow of course.
stabbing with an arrow is an improvised weapon, but its probably smarter to just take the disadvantage and get your modifier and damage bonus, and weapon damage die. - Then you can flavor the attack as stabbing with an arrow.
You go ahead and use your arrow as a melee weapon and pretend to be Legolas. I'm gonna be over here using my sling as a melee weapon and pretending to be Rincewind.
Stabbing with an arrow sure you either stab here or you stab over there same basic idea..
As for breaking a bow I have only ever had some one check when they rolled a 1 to hit.
Recovery of ammo depending on situation the rule applies, but some situations they get none back , other they can actually recover more arrows.
Arrow=improvised weapon 1d4 piercing 50% break chance when used in melee
I help one of my DMs behind the scenes and we build a paladin NPC together who has the Tavern Brawler feat and he’s been hanging out in an arena with a 100% win ratio thanks to being able to use a big stick as if it were a two handed longsword.
I knew about the ability to retrieve half of your expended ammunition after combat, but I didn't know about the other stuff.
I actually didn't know about this thanks.
I usually just have my players roll a dice based on how many arrows they shoot am get that many back.
the arrow thing came up one in a 3.5 game. The players escape and the only thing they got was 20 arrow. we did it as a d6+str as stabbing but had a 50% chance of break. it made the fight vs dogs and then guards interested
In my game, I made an agreement with my dm that I can recover all ammunition I manage to hit, and those I miss depend on the place so for example if we are in the caves or insides with stone walls we consider ammunition to be broken and unrecoverable but if its wood or dirt I can recover them depending on how badly I missed. Another example is open areas if I miss after the battle I can take time to look for ammunition but have to roll to find it.
for the arrow stab: improvised d4+ Str mod, arrow is destroyed. Rationale : the method of how the arrow was used breaks as it hit bone and armor , bending the shaft and breaking the arrow.
I believe the PHB says that a shuriken is a dagger, so shanking with an arrow I'd rule as a d4 piercing
Before watching the video, at our table we roll, off it broke or you can't find it. Even it's intact.
I would treat an arrow as an improvised dagger, as in no proficiency bonus, but you can use dex.
i had that situation with a player. :P.. he tried the legolas move ;)
i handled it like an improvised "dagger".
This is a good example of why Actions that provide no drama but are part of the setting do not require a roll.
if you keep track of arrows i feel bad for you son, i got 99 problems but ammunition ain't one!
Also check Xanathar's for how to make your own ammo, it involves wood carver's tools
i appreciate your content, keep it up man
What about ranged weapons without the ammunition property (darts and nets).
In my game, if someone used an arrow to stab and then shoot, I'd rule that the arrow stab is a d4.
I am dming a game where our ranger is recovering almost always the total ammo he shot because our wizard is casting mending on the arrows after every single combat. xD
I am gonna have to remember that truck.
*trick. Gotta love when autocorrect corrects you incorrectly.
Optional: If your character behind a cover is attacked by an ammunition and missed, it will be stuck on the coverb if it would otherwise hit them.
Specifically if it *would* have hit you had the cover not been there, so if you have AC 16 normally, they total a 17, and you have Half Cover for a +2 for 18 effective a DM can have it strike the cover instead. If the cover is a creature it must still beat their AC to hit them, so if they also had AC 16 but no cover from the shooter that same thing may have hit them.
humm I thoguht the improvised weapon was meant for the ammunition
Could you do a video about instrument proficiency, like what does having proficiency in an instrument do if you aren't a bard? Is it only used to substitute a performance check?
There are some optional uses in Xanathar's, suggested ones allow you to identify or compose a tune using instrument Proficiency
==EDIT== Also recalling history related to the specific instrument, and it has guidelines that if you're Proficient in both a relevant skill and tool a DM might choose to grant Advantage
Arrow as improvised, our house rule is D4 +1/2 str mod
Huh.... 100 arrows is good for 200 shots or close to it; 197 when rounding down.
100 -> 50 -> 25 -> 12 -> 6 -> 3 -> 1
Except that it's always rounded down so every combat where you shot odd number of arrows you'd skewer this calc by -1
Don’t forget my elf (and other) archer bros and sisters that if you become proficient in the Woodcarver tools you can make 5 arrows as part of your short rest and make up to 20 as part of a long rest. So yeah ..don’t run out of arrows!
With the release of zanathars there is a dedicated fletchers kit.
You can exchange woodcarver's tool proficiency for proficiency with a fletchers kit.
You still need to acquire the kit in any instance though.
I liked the arrows from the thumbnail lol you shoot all kinds of bows or have a preference? I prefer recurve tbh, but i like carbon fiber arrows.
In regards to using a bow to hit someone, i allow it to be with proficiency, i consider the bow as "fist filler" for an unarmed strike. I treat an arrow like a dart.
Depends on the application. I've always been fond of aluminum arrows
What about recovery of magic arrows?
This is a new one on me. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Dirtbag DMs- Youre out of ammo, your turn is wasted
Regular DMs- I don't care
Me- Either I infuse it and make it a gun or you can give us guns.
Everyone DM- NOOOOOO!
I just don't worry about it.
I absolutely would let someone use an arrow as an improvised weapon. It's been like that in previous editions, but you had to take a feat for it. An arrow did as much damage as a dagger. In Pathfinder, there was a series of "Empty Quiver" style feats that literally made you Legolas.
Even with this rules, when I play an archer, I always get a fletching kit so I can repair and craft bolts or arrows. As a DM, I have even some homebrew rules about arrows and bolts compatibilities. Exemple: Goblins arrows are shorter to fit there bows, so you couldn't use them with your big human bow. Same for Bolt depending who craft them for which crossbow.
For arrow attacks, I'd use improvised weapon rules if I needed a rule. Honestly though, this fits better with flavor on the description. The PC with multiple attacks take a first ranged shot on the person next to them killing them and fires at another. The player just describes it as stabbing someone with an arrow, etc.
Yea this rule my group and I don't like. We just roll and depending on the roll the DM decides how much ammo we get back.
id treat an arrow like a dagger
if an Arcane Archer has Sharpshot and uses that(the -5) and misses, then uses curving arrow to redirect it to another enemy, is that redirected shot also a sharpshot or a regular shot OR does the player choose? I don't think they have said on that anywhere I have seen.
My first 5e character was a ranger that had the tavern brawler feat specifically so I could bash someone with it in melee range. Though he didn't have a high strength to utilize it well, it was still fun when it came up.
One my players in my group had a fighter who ran out of crossbow bolts and asked if he could beat up the enemies with his crossbow I ruled he could use it like a club glad to know an actual ruling explains this!
Drop bows on em.
My DM made special recovery rules based on access to the Mending spell and Investigation checks
No way. As a very amateur archer I miss a lot, and I’m shooting in one direction at short range paying attention to where I shoot
I lose about 1 in 5 arrows that miss. Realistically, in combat - shooting full power in every direction and not paying attention? You’re gonna lose those arrows.
Oh as a veteran archer I'm well aware. Though if you're shooting into soft dirt soil, your arrow is likely recoverable
Fair enough! A minute for half feels a little ambitious, I think I’d throw a quick check in? Maybe survival or investigation - whatever the player is best at
@@fushicon6121 yeah or maybe just a straight Dexterity check
@@NerdImmersion For me its the inverse, a soft soal with grass are the worse. I always lose arrows this way because they dig horizontale under the grass and ground. Its even worst when you have traditionnal arrow with wooden shaft and feathers.
Does this mean an archer can take an opportunity attack with an improvised weapon?
No views?! NO VIEWS?! Let me be the first!
At first I thought you were going to talk about arrows of recovery
Hi Teddy
The ammumition property melee damage instantly makes me want to have a dual bow weilding paladin with the tavern brawler feat that smites with those bow strikes.
DM: "Okay, so you are using your bow. Which enemy do you target?"
Me: "The one right in front of me."
Legolas: 6th level fighter with two attacks. Orc is adjacent. Makes one attack with bow at disadvantage, flavored as stabbing orc in the face with an arrow. Hits anyway, kills orc. Then uses second attack to shoot some other orc.
I would probably go with the eye arrow stab then ahoot as a rule of cool how do you want to do this moment and have that as a description.
Tracking ammunition is one of those things that tends to get dropped. Another rule that gets ignored is the rule against drawing two weapons when two weapon fighting which makes the Feat nearly useless.
The drawing rules being dropped is because people don't read the actions in combat section of the PHB.
A nonshot arrow melee attack would deal 1d4 bludgeoning and yes i knew most of the recovery rules
Nah, it'd be piercing. Unless you're specifically slapping them with it instead of stabbing them with it.
@@_stonhinge not enough force