I was so excited to see this headline... only to be demoralized by 28 lanes of PCIe. I'd love to see this type of platform at like 40 lanes for 2 x16 + 1 x8 lanes.
@@boss2688 Exactly this. I hoped for cheap 40-48 lanes for desktop no need for threadripper. Just the GPU at 8×, 1× E key at 1× (or 2× when I got the lanes anyway), 2 slots of 4× under the GPU. That is 18, rest to 5 NVMe slots all 4×. Just add 2 sata back into the io die and done. The chipset is just for usb.
A socket redesign would be needed to hit higher pcie lanes. Once there set at the socket level thats it. All the pcie lanes your getting. Same thing happens with intel like the LGA1151 skylake and kaby lake xeons.
This is brilliant news. There really isn't any low-power server-grade hardware available, unless you go for the ancient EPYC Embedded 3000-series or quite pricey Ryzen Embedded industrial boards.
I mean, there is the Gigabyte MC12-LE0 for example, which is a B550 AM4 server board with BMC. You can find it as cheap as 80€ online now. I think for that price it’s a good deal.
Epyc 8024P has a lower average draw than all the 4004 chips phoronix tested. Mine has a system avg (dual sfp+, 10 drives, 2 optanes, 6 rdimm ddr5) about the same as the avg of the 4584PX. Of course I would hope the 4004 are easier to get a hold of, since Asrock Rack just has them and the Ryzen 7000s now on the same motherboards.
Yes, the criticism is that these EPYC 4000's are like 7000X3D. But I don't mind. Problem is lack of 40 PCIe lanes. Great video 👍 Kindest regards, neighbours and friends.
am5 socket doesn't have the pins for 40 pcie lanes :( - you need at least 4 cpu pins per pcie lane, 160 pins per ddr channel - that many extra pins would mean it wasn't "similar to a standard am5 socket" any more
Since DDR5 made ECC standard, there's no longer a differentiation between memory types. This is effectively replacing the "ryzen pro" lineup, which enables remote management. This isn't going to work on just any AM5 motherboard -- you'll need one with an extended firmware that has the remote management components integrated. The regular consumer boards do not, for many reasons (including privacy). The lane count is a small tradeoff. After all, the EPYC family is "just a bunch of ryzen dies" on a common carrier. The problem is, AMD generally has left off the remote management feature for the server socket, SP3. It's infuriatingly resolved by most vendors including an Aspeed AST2X00 BMC, which inflates the motherboard price to somewhere between $400-600 for the 'privilege' of having a rather outdated and pokey ARM core joined to the hip to control fans, backplane status, and power state. Now you can pair one of these with an asus prime CSB board at a fraction of the price, ditch the backplane I2C/SMBus madness, allow the host to control the fans by load profile instead of thermal state, and we *already had* soft power in ATX including alarm wakeups for close to two decades now. Now you can finally have a reliable home NAS with a few lanes for NVME and a bunch of spinners, with ECC memory, for close to the same prices you'd pay for a consumer desktop SKU. It's beautiful. If you need the lanes, get some PLX expanders. They're pricey but good luck finding any consumer grade pcie gen5 devices other than the fastest console SSDs... even the GPUs are kinda sticking at Gen4 speeds because Gen5 doesn't really help due to shorter link requirements, and Gen6's power requirements of ~8W to keep the links alive with PAM signalling just don't really fit with mobile SKUs. Honestly, it's more likely we'll see some company come out of nowhere with a USB4 "hub" chip with 8 ports (or 32 lanes) at Gen4 speeds, while the gen5/6 stuff remains in the datacenter while CXL cooks.
Waiting for Minisforum to throw one of these into the MS-01 for the ultimate AMD-based homelab host. I hope that one of the newer NAS companies throw this into their products. And maybe HPE decide to use them in a refreshed Microserver.
We need to advocate for cheaper and cheaper ARM mini-servers. We need to make self-hosting more affordable and aproachable. Delete the perception that you need a beast for a home server.
too expensive not enough lanes. and 65watt is higher than i want my mini at. at this price you can buy the desktop chip/mobo get same lanes. your trading for ECC memory, which is insane cost. and little benefit
All you have to do is find a minisforum that has a Ryzen 7000....same....chip.....how are people not understanding that. Or maybe it's just magic that Asrock Rack had a line of motherboards that had BMC, ECC UDIMM for Ryzen 7000 cpus and as of this morning...oh look at that, now the boards are for Ryzen 7000 AND Epyc 4004. It's amazing. Like they are the same thing. Crazy.
The BMC/IPMI is what it's all about and what is necessary. The MS-01 is already a step in the right direction using Intel vPRO which sadly is very dated but still a worthy IPMI.
The Epyc 4004 CPU series is exactly the same as the Zen 4 consumer CPUs. The difference is they have taken the time to validate the Epycs for use in an enterprise environment.
Shot in the dark, but I bet if you follow the overclocking advise for Ryzen 7000 cpus, it will work exactly the same for these awesome new opterons....lol
That was like the only time I was at bleeding edge, the first dual core for consumer boards with a full meg of L2 cache. Mine was only stable at 2.7GHz but it absolutely manhandled my AthlonXP. Stuck with that until the Q6600 G0 which I hung onto until 2013. Great times.
So it's 7950x? Am I missing something or is this just a rename of of existing chips? Asrock already had server am4 and am5 boards with ecc support for 3000, 5000, and 7000 series ryzen.
And only two memory channels... I fail to see who is this exactly for? Is there some use case I am missing? What's the point of a server CPU that neither has more memory bandwidth nor PCIe lanes than their desktop equivalents?
@@MidWitPride the point is to have a low cost option for small servers that DON'T need a lot of cores, more mem bandwidth or more PCIe lanes. If you do need any of that you already get to pick from Genoa, Bergamo or Siena.
that and probably also validation for other things like support for other server hardware like NICs, as well as some software support like for Windows Server, stuff like that. Overall though for home server use, none of that makes a real difference, but for enterprise I suppose it does.
You get a gold star sticker! Just like the Ryzens that we now call Epycs, because that is the only difference between the two for all intents and purposes, lol.
NIce! Computer tech related info without a lot of drama and lots of insight and experience. Good to find your channel. Since I'm not a gamer, this is the type of hardware I'm drawn towards, but without the time to invest in the research, it's nice to have help sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Out of curiosity, can you confirm the 3D V-cache layout on the X models? I assume they've used two V-cache chips, one for each chiplet. (Not the asymmetrical layout used on Ryzen, with 3D V-cache only on one chiplet, I can't imagine they would do that for a server platform no matter how budget oriented.)
This is exactly what I've been waiting for for my NAS rebuild. I won't lie I wish it had more PCIE lanes but I'll make it work to have a modern 65w server grade CPU with a few more lanes and better performance than Intel's E-2400's. I really hope the next version of this has more PCIE lanes and more memory channels though as this is so close to really good (and to be fair will be for a lot of SMB's).
Oh I definitely agree! The problem is AMD is offering their consumer platform with added on enterprise features like ECC and BMC, and so with it it comes with it the same limitations as consumer AM5 desktop. I'm not 100% sure if the limited PCI-E lanes is due to the amount of pins on the socket or the IOD. I too would love to have at least 40 lanes. 1x GPU + 4xNVME on a x16 card plus anything else maybe a 24 port SAS/SATA card and you've got yourself an amazing NAS for sure!
@@Fractal_32 Features like what? ECC support is already available on Ryzen. I looked at the spec sheet, these Epyc 4004 chips are identical to Ryzen 7000.
@@dan8t669 This isn't going to work on just any AM5 motherboard -- you'll need one with an extended firmware that has the "Ryzen Pro" remote management components integrated. The regular consumer boards do not, for many reasons (including privacy), but usually cost reduction, since they can ship a 16MB NOR flash instead of a 32MB NOR flash and save $3. Asus's Prime B650-PLUS-CSM is a good example of this -- it's a B650-PLUS with 32MB of NOR. Most *server* vendors include an Aspeed AST2X00 BMC to handle IPMI, somewhere around $80 added to the BOM, in turn inflating a server motherboard price to somewhere between $400-600 for the 'privilege' of having a rather outdated and pokey ARM core joined to the hip to control fans, backplane status, and power state. Now you can forget the ASPEED with one of these 4004s, retain I2C/SMBus access for redundant PSUs that'll be ignored by 90% of designs, and allow the host to control the fans by processor load instead of thermal state, with ECC memory, for the same as a 7000. In most cases, you don't even need the wide lane count, good luck finding any consumer grade pcie gen5 devices other than the fastest console SSDs... And the link traces have to be even shorter, like 3 inches or less. There's already quite a few "retimer" chips and even a codified board footprint spec by intel for them, to get six to nine inches to cross a server board by chaining a pair. As far as I know, AMD nor Nvidia has bothered going to PCIE Gen5, cause they're not really even saturating Gen4 X16 fully, and a lot of the newer mid-end cards are sticking with Gen4 X8 links, such as the AMD RX7600. Also, one Gen5 X16 port can do the work of two Gen4 X16 ports. Thus one Gen5 X8 port can do the work of one Gen4 x16 port, or one Gen5 X4 port could do the work of one Gen4 X8 port -- carrying the load of an entire dedicated GPU over a USB4 or Displayport cable with only 4 lanes. We'll see if the OCULink X8 port ends up being popular or not. So far it doesn't seem so, only it's X4 cousin has been seen in the wild on consumer hardware like portable gaming terminals (onexplayer) and sub 1liter PC terminals (minisforum). Via a PLX expander, you can easily get a 56 port model that can hump 48 lanes (12 Gen4 NVMEs) over 8 Gen5 lanes. This is what's showing up in the latest server backplanes, and "just works" in most cases when plugged into any host system, no fancy middleman controller like SAS required. Thusly, the SAS expanders are disappearing and being replaced with PCIE expanders... Some of which also do clustering and CXL mailboxing for supercomputing/hypercube topologies at home. Madness.
I’m excited for this; I can retire some several year old systems with this low cost platform for descent price and great performance. I’ve always wished there was an official stamp of support and approval for ryzen based systems and here we are. I hope that Dell, hp, Lenovo jump in there as well and get in this market.
I hope I haven't missed it in the video - Does AMD share what type of ECC memory will be supported? I presume it will be Unbuffered DDR5, but it will be nice to see it explicitly mentioned.
@@LackofFaithify my interest is from running a home server. All of these features tick boxes for reliability, something that is not guaranteed with Ryzen due to unofficial support. As always I’ll wait for multiple third party reviews before forming a final opinion on the product.
What is the difference between EPYC 4564P and 7950x? Same cores, same frequencies, same TDP. It officially supports ECC UDIMMS, but 7950x also does (unofficially). Looks like marketing tricks to sell the same crystals under a different name.
The first thing that came to my mind was that it would be a really cool platform if you wanted to handle workloads with huge amounts of memory, like maybe language models, but a 192GB limit wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
Yeah a silly limit for he sake of it. AMD really didn't think this though. 2x128GB or 4x64GB are 256GB, you would currently have to find expensive non standard 4x48GB sticks to reach 192GB.
@@ericneo2 it's not arbitrary, it's because currently you can't get any larger than 48gb dimms in the non registered type. Intel did the same on their earlier ddr4 chips, pretty sure 8th gen didn't support 128gb until after 32gb dimms became available. As the memory controller is the same as that of the consumer line but validated for ECC, means you can't use registered ECC, only unregistered.
@@morosis82 Well, there's more than one type of performance. In this case it's not "flops" or "bandwidth" performance, but "capacity", or accuracy in the case of LLMs. It seems like it's really trivial to get up to 128GB of capacity however you want to do it, but everything beyond that seems to get either silly or expensive, so I got a little bit hyped for something that wouldn't deliver what I want... For reasons that you noted very competently in this chain of comments. To be honest, I actually don't even really care about price that much (well, as long as we're not going too much beyond four figures), but absolute power has been a huge consideration for me, so it's been weird to find something to suit my very specific needs. It's weirdly difficult to find anything below 200 watts (of socket power) but above 200GB of capacity, lol.
@@novantha1 get a 7002 series Epyc on a Supermicro H11SSL or H12ssl. I built a 7452 32 core machine with 256GB for under $2k Australian dollarydoos a year and a bit ago, 128 PCIe lanes, 8 channel memory, all the fun stuff.
Oh, I remember those motherboard reviews 👍That's when I first really followed you and your style of writing. Kudos for doing that grunt work. No doubt automating benchmarking is a tedious thing. But you did the gruntwork and reported teh numbers.
New upload from everyone's favorite silicon-eating spud. Good day :D Edit: Actually, quick question (maybe a video request???) What are your thoughts on the growth of ARM? Do you think computing will move away from x86 in general, or only for everyday computing if at all? If that's the case, how do you see that transition going in your opinion?
Surely, shouldn't you be considering the EXPLOSIVE growth of Risc-V as well? Yes, it doesn't have the same consumer and data-center growth as ARM, but on the low-end, almost every company out there are making their own cores -- pretty soon, most of the micro-controller market could become RV-based. I'm just waiting to see which Smartphone chip-maker will be the first to take the plunge, ever since Google upgraded Risc-V to a premium ISA for Android.
AMD’s EPYC 4004 series is a game-changer for SMBs, offering enterprise-grade performance without breaking the bank. The inclusion of Zen 4 architecture and ECC memory support at such competitive prices is truly impressive. It’s exciting to see how these CPUs will enable smaller businesses to compete on a new level. Peace
I am curious: Which spec is that makes these a game changer? I am not a massive server guy, so there's probably something I am missing, but I struggle to see the value here with only two memory channels, 16 cores and the same 28 PCIe lanes as AM5. Better ethernet, ECC and that's it?
@@MidWitPride ECC is a big deal in the server market, but I agree this is *almost* good but misses will probably miss the mark for a lot of segments. For my personal use I can see some places to use this (for a NAS) but professionally even with the added cost and TDP we will probably stick with Genoa since Siena is currently so hard to get motherboards for. It is worth noting there are lots of SMB's that this will be fine for who really just want/need the reliability of enterprise grade hardware but don't need everything that current Epyc or Xeon offer for the added cost and TDP.
@@MidWitPride The EPYC 4004 CPUs are not just about power; they’re about future-proofing. With PCIe Gen 5 and USB 20Gbps support, these processors are ready for the next gen, AMD is committed, and it shows in this new lineup at least now in regards to accessibility. Its all about those precious lanes atm for myself, wish I could indulge...
@@MidWitPride Don't worry, your question is perfectly legit and the actual answer is nothing for a home user. This is just a Ryzen chip and AMD has officially confirmed these to work with ECC, Ubuntu, Windows Server, etc.. for the purposes of blame passing at the corporate levels of business.
Same 128 MB of L3 as the 7950X3D. Very disappointingly these are just a different binning/branding/validation of the existing Ryzen SKUs. No full Vcache versions, no Zen4c versions...this launch is all business no fun. I was excited at first then quickly disappointed...
@@abavariannormiepleb9470It's not just branding. It is about guaranteeing some validation and official support for that that Desktop Ryzen can technically do (like ECC ram support), but isn't guaranteed on the desktop AM5 platform. It takes care of checkboxes that enterprise customers may require, but don't really make any real difference for say home server use.
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 not just that, also binning; 7950X is binned for peak perf, 4854P is binned for sustained perf, use 7950X in your server in the default settings and you'll end up in a failed CPU in two years, use 4854P in your gaming PC in the default settings and you'll still have a working AM5 CPU while others are looking for upgrade CPUs for their AM5 motherboards
Honestly what is the difference between this and a desktop am5 7000 proc on a motherboard like an x670E steel legend? I can do all this on a Linux server now. We dont even get a huge amount of pcie lanes or anything.
Makes one wonder what Intel could do with 32 or 64 E cores (or more?) for a budget build. What will $100 or $200 purchase in 2024? It’d be nice if it’d be something that had some value.
@@NuggetsAndLaundry I haven't heard anything about such project, they have the 8E core Alder Lake-N chip on the market for laptops and mini PCs and 144E core/chiplet Sierra Forest server chip announced, but nothing in between.
Because the workload you want for your (small) server doesn't require it and you want to save money. Otherwise AMD is certainly very happy to sell you any other Epyc.
I dont understand people saying "what is the difference between epyc 4004 and ryzen 7000" like, my man did you watched the whole video? IT'S ALL ABOUT THAT
The lack of LTS is still a big problem. When you can not even get 5 years that is just way too short for many applications -.- if they can fix that -finally.
I don't generally care about ecc memory, baseband management is nice, but I'd GLADLY trade those things for a reasonable number of pcie lanes (64 or so should do nicely). i'm tired of either having a 16x pcie card or an x8/x8 setup. once I've installed a nic and an hba, for example, i'm done. or if you want to use all 16 lanes for a gpu, that's pretty much it... sure there's typically a 4x slot, but that's usually shared with your second m.2 slot so that's not a great option either.
AMD last entered this realm back in the Piledriver days with the AM3+ Opterons. I have an Opteron 3365 8 Core Chip. They offer much in the same as with being aimed at the low end server area. Nice to see them coming down this way again. Im definitely upgrady as my Opteron is a bit long in the tooth and even though ill be going from an 8 core to a 4 core 8 thread. The performance will be so much better.
I am a bit disappointed that Dell, or HPE haven't shown interested in these yet. They woule slot in very well in between something like a PowerEdge R360 and R6615.
What's the cheapest way to get 40 pcie lanes (because people are talking about it). 3930K was £479 or £682 today (and likely £800 in buying power parity) but wasn't a xeon. E5-1650 (6c12t and 130w) was same price back in the day so nearest equivalent. Struggling to think of a time you could get a xeon with loads of pcie lanes and cores for a reasonable MSRP.
correct me if im wrong but ryzen hasnt eec disabled anyway? and you can run windows server LTS on ordinary ryzens as well? i dont see a single upside here unfortunately.
I think the whole idea is to sell low cost products for server markets and the use of AM5 platform means (to me) that standard BIOS should support it, and I remember see some videos about leaks of some OEMs updating his AM5 firmware months ago for this, however I am not an expert
No, desktop ryzen has the same memory configuration with two channels supporting similar clock speeds, capacities and all. The only difference is guaranteed support for ECC memory.
as an SMB this is interesting. do we know about system integrator going forward with this already? (not yet finished viewing, maybe it‘s in there after the 50% mark :) )
The issue here are the PCIe lanes. AM5 lacks the proper pin count. While I think that for SOHO application threadripper is a bit to much. I'm on LGA2011-v3 with 40 lanes and the only problem I'm having is the lack of bifurcation support. (I would love to use a passive adapters for NVME) I think that a good system could be MB with a PLX with upstream PCIe v5 and downstrem PCIe v4. And yes lanes are important for both NVME, good old spinning drives, GPUs, or whatever you need in the machine and as newer revisions are harder and harder to split passively expecially now that SLI/Crossfire is dead... maybe AI workloads can shift the balance again.
I have the same issue with lack of bifurcation on my home NAS with a similar Xeon chip. If you’re also on an X99 motherboard they do in fact support bifurcation, it’s just annoyingly not exposed on the UEFI BIOS menu. However, you can make a custom edited BIOS that enables bifurcation, but it’s not for the feint of heart… just figured I’d let you know it was possible if you want to go down that route.
Ah that sucks, I really hope I have better luck. I bought a couple bifurcated nvme cards and got all the info prepped to do the mod but haven’t attempted it yet. Really annoying they didn’t just make it a bios option to begin with.
That's the problem I've been having. It's all well and good to have the bandwidth of 28 or whatever pcie gen 5 lanes, but I'd rather have 112 gen 3 lanes which is the same bandwidth
ASRock Rack has both AM4 and AM5 1U servers that run on Ryzen 5000/7000 CPUs with ECC ram and IPMI bells and whistles. The fine print was always that it's an unqualified config. So while it might work, it was never specifically tested and qualified to run that way. In my own anecdotal experience, there was never an issue with anything. Other then now being a qualified server platform, there's probably no difference in the chips. If anything, I'd guess maybe the server SKUs would be more focused on all-core speed as opposed to single core speed. For instance I could see Epyc being slightly slower in gaming benchmarks but slightly faster in kernel compiles per whatever versus their Ryzen counterparts.
I'm looking forward to the STH Project Tiny Mini Micro review of this new product line. It's a segment that has been dominated by entry level Xeons for ages
Going only up to 16 cores seems like a bit of a missed opportunity, I think. Given a lot of the tasks that are going to be run on these can leverage as many cores as you throw at them and that it would be more efficient I think there should've been an option for a "hybrid" with one Zen 4 CCD with 8 cores and one CCD with 16 Zen 4C cores for 24 cores/48 threads total. It feels like we have been stuck at 16 cores for a while now--since Zen 2 launched in 2019--and it'd be nice to start seeing an increase in core count again, with the added benefit that it would increase efficiency.
Can someone clarify for me why this is compelling to people? I see a rebranded Ryzen lineup with identical specs. Ryzen supports ECC (UDIMM) just like these which now works on many boards and I believe TSME is also there. These do not support the virtualization features found on other EPYC lineups. Most of the marketing material is effectively showing how Ryzen compares in performance to equivalent Xeon processors. Server operating systems would work with Ryzen so the only potential feature I really understand is remote management which is a board feature and I don't see details about this on their product pages. Just that it's a thing and multiple chipset options will be available. Unless I'm mistaken I basically see a product that could just be a lineup of AM5 motherboards except putting Ryzen CPUs in a server environment doesn't look professional so these CPUs exist instead.
ECC on Ryzen is not qualified. Just because it says it's working in the Bios doesn't mean it is actually working on those platforms. Also, long term server OS image support. Guarantees operability based on customer need. In the enterprise segment, having thing validated and supported for X years becomes minimum specification. 'we expect it to' or 'pretty sure it will' isn't good enough when an issue could cause a compromised system and security issue.
@@TechTechPotato I appreciate the reply. I understand ECC is notoriously finnicky on Ryzen but it seems to be functioning on many consumer boards now. It was rough at launch but I've seen people validating this in Wendel's forum. There are also server targeted AM5 boards like the rack mount Asrock launched awhile back that does officially validate both non-ECC and ECC and UDIMMS. I hear you what you're saying about long-term OS support, it all just seems a bit strange for this performance class and there are already data centers that have been selling Ryzen PRO-based dedicated servers with ECC for a while. If it at least offered more EPYC features or PCIE lanes I could see a reason to justify its existence but hopefully available boards make it worthwhile.
Glad to see they're adding to something between the HEDT and Home PC Market, but dollar to dollar, how would this compete vs the old Epyc 7551P with 7 slots? I get a new feature set. higher ipc on boost clock with lower power, but the fact is how many PCIE lanes available, and no motherboard for this set I look at has 7 usable slots, even if 4 were only x4? I don't feel the consumer home market is being as well met outside of saving some heat and power out of the wall would take over 3-4 years to make up the price difference, and that doesn't even account for ram costs. Is the higher IO worth it when we can't build our NAS's, video rendering boxes, etc due to lack of 7 physical slots on most boards available.
it's for customers who dont need allot of pcie lanes? Also it has more pcie lanes than what those customers are currently running... Xeon E: 16pcie5, 4pcie4 Epyc4004: 24pcie5
Yes, it's just a Ryzen with ECC and BBM ready; however, damn that on the 4464P looks to be the sweet spot. 12 cores @ 65W? for SMB/hosting/VM purpose, you could put something together low power and grab what you're after.
I can't decide if it's funny or disappointing how casual people are about 64mb of L3 cache on a consumer platform. Not to surreptitiously toot any horns here, but that's a huge on-chip cache for a single height CPU, and it's not even the top of it's line, this is just the first chip they had enough of after the first few binning cycles to sell.
PCIE lanes aside these would make amazing on prem workstations. These are perfect for software defined servers where you just add and remove machines to pools/clusters as needed.
I'm not sure if the graph at 8:01 make it look as good as they were trying to... it says they do x1.6 perf going from a 95W TDP CPU to a 170W TDP CPU that cost 100$ more x_x I know I know nobody pays for power these days... allegedly
Whats the benefit of these CPUs? You can already run ECC on normal ryzen, there are server boards available for normal ryzen, these new chips have the same pcie lanes and memory channel count, since they're just rebranded chips. Is this supposed to promote more servers around the Ryzen and similar processors?
Enterprise has another level of qualification and validation for hardware aswell as OS support so your small business doesn't suddenly have its important client info getting corrupted or the accounting programs going unsupported this time next year.
@@tomstech4390 has there ever been an instance where a consumer CPU has been the root cause of data corruption? No backups or raid or checksumming filesystem? Consumer chips can still run ecc, and vendors like asrockrack still have a qvl for consumer Ryzen boards. Also what software won't run on Ryzen but will on epyc? Especially software for a small business
@@konzo5942 yes, there is; consumer grade CPU+consumer grade RAM combo has about one in 100 million bit error rate thankfully AMD also supports memory encryption
I really wish they would produce and SOC of this with a BGA. If they could just make it in the US that would be great. Now if they would sell just the CCUs and allow a custom IOcomplex that would be even better. I have a project that could really use this in an SOC or even better the ccus. Or allow outside folks to add they own chipletts and packaging.
Now if only there were motherboards for it too... Like for the previous AM4 platform where ECC was also technically supported, barely any motherboard had that support. Asus had like a single model, and asrock had several models that were never sold anywhere and are out of production by this time most likely.
![[38] We're not even at PCIe 6.0 Yet!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bGwRzWNhbX8/mqdefault.jpg)
I was so excited to see this headline... only to be demoralized by 28 lanes of PCIe. I'd love to see this type of platform at like 40 lanes for 2 x16 + 1 x8 lanes.
This should be top comment
agreed, thats really the main reason i went with an EPYC 7551P over the Ryzen/Intel core lines.
Yeah, its either 24-28 or prohibitively costly threadripper : (
@@boss2688 Exactly this.
I hoped for cheap 40-48 lanes for desktop no need for threadripper.
Just the GPU at 8×, 1× E key at 1× (or 2× when I got the lanes anyway), 2 slots of 4× under the GPU. That is 18, rest to 5 NVMe slots all 4×.
Just add 2 sata back into the io die and done. The chipset is just for usb.
A socket redesign would be needed to hit higher pcie lanes. Once there set at the socket level thats it. All the pcie lanes your getting. Same thing happens with intel like the LGA1151 skylake and kaby lake xeons.
LOL, EPIC 4004 specifications at 4:04, nice.
This is brilliant news. There really isn't any low-power server-grade hardware available, unless you go for the ancient EPYC Embedded 3000-series or quite pricey Ryzen Embedded industrial boards.
This! Even though ASRock Rack released a board with the EPYC 3451, it was very price prohibitive for what it offered in terms of specs.
Ovh has Ryzen desktop CPU options, there must be some AM4 or AM5 server-boards around.
I mean, there is the Gigabyte MC12-LE0 for example, which is a B550 AM4 server board with BMC. You can find it as cheap as 80€ online now. I think for that price it’s a good deal.
Epyc 8024P has a lower average draw than all the 4004 chips phoronix tested. Mine has a system avg (dual sfp+, 10 drives, 2 optanes, 6 rdimm ddr5) about the same as the avg of the 4584PX. Of course I would hope the 4004 are easier to get a hold of, since Asrock Rack just has them and the Ryzen 7000s now on the same motherboards.
Brilliant news? With the top model with only 16 cores??? Two DDR5 channels? Please. I would take it even for free.
Yes, the criticism is that these EPYC 4000's are like 7000X3D. But I don't mind. Problem is lack of 40 PCIe lanes. Great video 👍
Kindest regards, neighbours and friends.
am5 socket doesn't have the pins for 40 pcie lanes :( - you need at least 4 cpu pins per pcie lane, 160 pins per ddr channel - that many extra pins would mean it wasn't "similar to a standard am5 socket" any more
Its not for that market segment, people who need more lanes buy more lanes.
And its still more than the competition (24xpcie5 vs 16xpcie5+4pcie4)
Since DDR5 made ECC standard, there's no longer a differentiation between memory types. This is effectively replacing the "ryzen pro" lineup, which enables remote management.
This isn't going to work on just any AM5 motherboard -- you'll need one with an extended firmware that has the remote management components integrated. The regular consumer boards do not, for many reasons (including privacy). The lane count is a small tradeoff. After all, the EPYC family is "just a bunch of ryzen dies" on a common carrier.
The problem is, AMD generally has left off the remote management feature for the server socket, SP3. It's infuriatingly resolved by most vendors including an Aspeed AST2X00 BMC, which inflates the motherboard price to somewhere between $400-600 for the 'privilege' of having a rather outdated and pokey ARM core joined to the hip to control fans, backplane status, and power state. Now you can pair one of these with an asus prime CSB board at a fraction of the price, ditch the backplane I2C/SMBus madness, allow the host to control the fans by load profile instead of thermal state, and we *already had* soft power in ATX including alarm wakeups for close to two decades now.
Now you can finally have a reliable home NAS with a few lanes for NVME and a bunch of spinners, with ECC memory, for close to the same prices you'd pay for a consumer desktop SKU. It's beautiful. If you need the lanes, get some PLX expanders. They're pricey but good luck finding any consumer grade pcie gen5 devices other than the fastest console SSDs... even the GPUs are kinda sticking at Gen4 speeds because Gen5 doesn't really help due to shorter link requirements, and Gen6's power requirements of ~8W to keep the links alive with PAM signalling just don't really fit with mobile SKUs. Honestly, it's more likely we'll see some company come out of nowhere with a USB4 "hub" chip with 8 ports (or 32 lanes) at Gen4 speeds, while the gen5/6 stuff remains in the datacenter while CXL cooks.
@@SLLabsKamilion there is: on-chip-only ECC vs. end to end ECC
This processor was long overdue, very happy that this is an option on the market.
Waiting for Minisforum to throw one of these into the MS-01 for the ultimate AMD-based homelab host. I hope that one of the newer NAS companies throw this into their products. And maybe HPE decide to use them in a refreshed Microserver.
This sounds epyc! I definitely need more MS-01s
We need to advocate for cheaper and cheaper ARM mini-servers.
We need to make self-hosting more affordable and aproachable.
Delete the perception that you need a beast for a home server.
too expensive not enough lanes. and 65watt is higher than i want my mini at. at this price you can buy the desktop chip/mobo get same lanes. your trading for ECC memory, which is insane cost. and little benefit
All you have to do is find a minisforum that has a Ryzen 7000....same....chip.....how are people not understanding that. Or maybe it's just magic that Asrock Rack had a line of motherboards that had BMC, ECC UDIMM for Ryzen 7000 cpus and as of this morning...oh look at that, now the boards are for Ryzen 7000 AND Epyc 4004. It's amazing. Like they are the same thing. Crazy.
The BMC/IPMI is what it's all about and what is necessary. The MS-01 is already a step in the right direction using Intel vPRO which sadly is very dated but still a worthy IPMI.
The Epyc CPU may be cheap. The Epyc motherboard and ECC memory, that's another story.
nah they use basic consumer am5 platform
@@ast.asutora Couldn't find one that supports it, only b650d4u which starts at 490€.
Well, MSI has mobos with 25gb Ethernet. That's something, I guess.
ECC RAM is only slightly more expensive than regular RAM.
4560p and 4584PX alone look the same as 7950X and 7950X3D interms of Core count, L3cache, TDP, PCIe 5.0 lanes, and RAM speed/channel supported.
The Epyc 4004 CPU series is exactly the same as the Zen 4 consumer CPUs. The difference is they have taken the time to validate the Epycs for use in an enterprise environment.
OPTERON is back !!!!!! I remember my Opteron DC165 i could achieve a 65% overclock on it
Shot in the dark, but I bet if you follow the overclocking advise for Ryzen 7000 cpus, it will work exactly the same for these awesome new opterons....lol
@@LackofFaithify yeah i don't think they will oc like back in the days haha i'm just nostalgic.
I had an Opteron 185 socket 939. It worked for years overclocked with 3,00 GHz stable with OSx86 Leopard. I still have this system.
@@Michael.Werker those were the days man
That was like the only time I was at bleeding edge, the first dual core for consumer boards with a full meg of L2 cache. Mine was only stable at 2.7GHz but it absolutely manhandled my AthlonXP. Stuck with that until the Q6600 G0 which I hung onto until 2013. Great times.
So it's 7950x? Am I missing something or is this just a rename of of existing chips? Asrock already had server am4 and am5 boards with ecc support for 3000, 5000, and 7000 series ryzen.
Certified chips which have features built into their silicon which Ryzen doesn’t have and which are cheaper than conventional EPYC CPUs.
@@Fractal_32can you name some of the features that are absent in ryzen?
@@AtaGunZSEV support for one
Finally! I’m still on a skylake Xeon e3 and this looks like exactly the upgrade I’ve been waiting for.
Yeah finally less ram and less memory bandwith AWESOME.
Great news but... More PCIe please. 32 lanes would be awesome.
And only two memory channels... I fail to see who is this exactly for? Is there some use case I am missing? What's the point of a server CPU that neither has more memory bandwidth nor PCIe lanes than their desktop equivalents?
A big miss by amd.
Would be a massive hit if it had more pcie lanes.
@@MidWitPride they basically cost the same as desktop versions tho.
@@MidWitPridethey are cheap *certified* CPUs that have EPYC features in their silicon.
@@MidWitPride the point is to have a low cost option for small servers that DON'T need a lot of cores, more mem bandwidth or more PCIe lanes. If you do need any of that you already get to pick from Genoa, Bergamo or Siena.
The only real change to normal ryzen is ECC validation? Maybe also a single ccd for 4, 6 and 8 core.
that and probably also validation for other things like support for other server hardware like NICs, as well as some software support like for Windows Server, stuff like that. Overall though for home server use, none of that makes a real difference, but for enterprise I suppose it does.
You get a gold star sticker! Just like the Ryzens that we now call Epycs, because that is the only difference between the two for all intents and purposes, lol.
but intel counterparts like 14700 supports ecc anyway?
NIce! Computer tech related info without a lot of drama and lots of insight and experience. Good to find your channel. Since I'm not a gamer, this is the type of hardware I'm drawn towards, but without the time to invest in the research, it's nice to have help sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Out of curiosity, can you confirm the 3D V-cache layout on the X models?
I assume they've used two V-cache chips, one for each chiplet.
(Not the asymmetrical layout used on Ryzen, with 3D V-cache only on one chiplet, I can't imagine they would do that for a server platform no matter how budget oriented.)
This is exactly what I've been waiting for for my NAS rebuild. I won't lie I wish it had more PCIE lanes but I'll make it work to have a modern 65w server grade CPU with a few more lanes and better performance than Intel's E-2400's. I really hope the next version of this has more PCIE lanes and more memory channels though as this is so close to really good (and to be fair will be for a lot of SMB's).
Oh I definitely agree! The problem is AMD is offering their consumer platform with added on enterprise features like ECC and BMC, and so with it it comes with it the same limitations as consumer AM5 desktop. I'm not 100% sure if the limited PCI-E lanes is due to the amount of pins on the socket or the IOD. I too would love to have at least 40 lanes. 1x GPU + 4xNVME on a x16 card plus anything else maybe a 24 port SAS/SATA card and you've got yourself an amazing NAS for sure!
What exaclty is new here?
There are AM4 and AM5 boards with IPMI and ECC support.
And there are Epyc boards in microATX and ATX form factor.
Certified chips which have features built into their silicon which Ryzen doesn’t have and which are cheaper than conventional EPYC CPUs.
A CYA disclaimer that it will work with Ubuntu.
@@Fractal_32it's a scam.
@@Fractal_32 Features like what? ECC support is already available on Ryzen.
I looked at the spec sheet, these Epyc 4004 chips are identical to Ryzen 7000.
@@dan8t669 This isn't going to work on just any AM5 motherboard -- you'll need one with an extended firmware that has the "Ryzen Pro" remote management components integrated. The regular consumer boards do not, for many reasons (including privacy), but usually cost reduction, since they can ship a 16MB NOR flash instead of a 32MB NOR flash and save $3. Asus's Prime B650-PLUS-CSM is a good example of this -- it's a B650-PLUS with 32MB of NOR.
Most *server* vendors include an Aspeed AST2X00 BMC to handle IPMI, somewhere around $80 added to the BOM, in turn inflating a server motherboard price to somewhere between $400-600 for the 'privilege' of having a rather outdated and pokey ARM core joined to the hip to control fans, backplane status, and power state.
Now you can forget the ASPEED with one of these 4004s, retain I2C/SMBus access for redundant PSUs that'll be ignored by 90% of designs, and allow the host to control the fans by processor load instead of thermal state, with ECC memory, for the same as a 7000. In most cases, you don't even need the wide lane count, good luck finding any consumer grade pcie gen5 devices other than the fastest console SSDs... And the link traces have to be even shorter, like 3 inches or less.
There's already quite a few "retimer" chips and even a codified board footprint spec by intel for them, to get six to nine inches to cross a server board by chaining a pair.
As far as I know, AMD nor Nvidia has bothered going to PCIE Gen5, cause they're not really even saturating Gen4 X16 fully, and a lot of the newer mid-end cards are sticking with Gen4 X8 links, such as the AMD RX7600.
Also, one Gen5 X16 port can do the work of two Gen4 X16 ports. Thus one Gen5 X8 port can do the work of one Gen4 x16 port, or one Gen5 X4 port could do the work of one Gen4 X8 port -- carrying the load of an entire dedicated GPU over a USB4 or Displayport cable with only 4 lanes. We'll see if the OCULink X8 port ends up being popular or not. So far it doesn't seem so, only it's X4 cousin has been seen in the wild on consumer hardware like portable gaming terminals (onexplayer) and sub 1liter PC terminals (minisforum).
Via a PLX expander, you can easily get a 56 port model that can hump 48 lanes (12 Gen4 NVMEs) over 8 Gen5 lanes. This is what's showing up in the latest server backplanes, and "just works" in most cases when plugged into any host system, no fancy middleman controller like SAS required. Thusly, the SAS expanders are disappearing and being replaced with PCIE expanders... Some of which also do clustering and CXL mailboxing for supercomputing/hypercube topologies at home. Madness.
I’m excited for this; I can retire some several year old systems with this low cost platform for descent price and great performance. I’ve always wished there was an official stamp of support and approval for ryzen based systems and here we are.
I hope that Dell, hp, Lenovo jump in there as well and get in this market.
I hope I haven't missed it in the video - Does AMD share what type of ECC memory will be supported? I presume it will be Unbuffered DDR5, but it will be nice to see it explicitly mentioned.
4:13 - It is UDIMM, so yeah, the most expensive and rare type of memory =\
@@Gastell0Which is exactly what Ryzen supports? Not every board supports it obviously but I know it works on many of them.
@@JJFX- Yeah, I can't really seem to find the difference really
Why did the EPYC 4004 CPU attend therapy?
Because it had too many cores and couldn’t handle the stress threads!
I cannot wait for a video by Wendell on these chips. I’m very interested in these EPYC chips!
Just go look at the equivalent Ryzen chip. It will be the same, because they are the same. This comes with some CYA labels added and that's all.
@@LackofFaithify my interest is from running a home server. All of these features tick boxes for reliability, something that is not guaranteed with Ryzen due to unofficial support.
As always I’ll wait for multiple third party reviews before forming a final opinion on the product.
What is the difference between EPYC 4564P and 7950x? Same cores, same frequencies, same TDP. It officially supports ECC UDIMMS, but 7950x also does (unofficially). Looks like marketing tricks to sell the same crystals under a different name.
It was in the official slides and has beem mentioned: "BMC, software RAID, server OS certifications, ECC memory support"
@@Vantrakterand on silicon features Ryzen does not have by default.
It has a premium for Enterprise CYA insurance. Nothing more, nothing less.
@@Vantrakterhow are they claiming software raid as a CPU feature? lol
@@Fractal_32 Any example features?
The first thing that came to my mind was that it would be a really cool platform if you wanted to handle workloads with huge amounts of memory, like maybe language models, but a 192GB limit wasn't exactly what I was expecting.
The low end server platforms is not where you want to look for LLM performance. Wrong target market.
Yeah a silly limit for he sake of it. AMD really didn't think this though. 2x128GB or 4x64GB are 256GB, you would currently have to find expensive non standard 4x48GB sticks to reach 192GB.
@@ericneo2 it's not arbitrary, it's because currently you can't get any larger than 48gb dimms in the non registered type. Intel did the same on their earlier ddr4 chips, pretty sure 8th gen didn't support 128gb until after 32gb dimms became available.
As the memory controller is the same as that of the consumer line but validated for ECC, means you can't use registered ECC, only unregistered.
@@morosis82 Well, there's more than one type of performance. In this case it's not "flops" or "bandwidth" performance, but "capacity", or accuracy in the case of LLMs. It seems like it's really trivial to get up to 128GB of capacity however you want to do it, but everything beyond that seems to get either silly or expensive, so I got a little bit hyped for something that wouldn't deliver what I want... For reasons that you noted very competently in this chain of comments.
To be honest, I actually don't even really care about price that much (well, as long as we're not going too much beyond four figures), but absolute power has been a huge consideration for me, so it's been weird to find something to suit my very specific needs. It's weirdly difficult to find anything below 200 watts (of socket power) but above 200GB of capacity, lol.
@@novantha1 get a 7002 series Epyc on a Supermicro H11SSL or H12ssl. I built a 7452 32 core machine with 256GB for under $2k Australian dollarydoos a year and a bit ago, 128 PCIe lanes, 8 channel memory, all the fun stuff.
Oh, I remember those motherboard reviews 👍That's when I first really followed you and your style of writing. Kudos for doing that grunt work. No doubt automating benchmarking is a tedious thing. But you did the gruntwork and reported teh numbers.
New upload from everyone's favorite silicon-eating spud. Good day :D Edit: Actually, quick question (maybe a video request???) What are your thoughts on the growth of ARM? Do you think computing will move away from x86 in general, or only for everyday computing if at all? If that's the case, how do you see that transition going in your opinion?
Surely, shouldn't you be considering the EXPLOSIVE growth of Risc-V as well? Yes, it doesn't have the same consumer and data-center growth as ARM, but on the low-end, almost every company out there are making their own cores -- pretty soon, most of the micro-controller market could become RV-based. I'm just waiting to see which Smartphone chip-maker will be the first to take the plunge, ever since Google upgraded Risc-V to a premium ISA for Android.
IIRC, a lot of server applications are already moving to ARM.
AMD’s EPYC 4004 series is a game-changer for SMBs, offering enterprise-grade performance without breaking the bank. The inclusion of Zen 4 architecture and ECC memory support at such competitive prices is truly impressive. It’s exciting to see how these CPUs will enable smaller businesses to compete on a new level. Peace
I am curious: Which spec is that makes these a game changer? I am not a massive server guy, so there's probably something I am missing, but I struggle to see the value here with only two memory channels, 16 cores and the same 28 PCIe lanes as AM5. Better ethernet, ECC and that's it?
@@MidWitPride ECC is a big deal in the server market, but I agree this is *almost* good but misses will probably miss the mark for a lot of segments. For my personal use I can see some places to use this (for a NAS) but professionally even with the added cost and TDP we will probably stick with Genoa since Siena is currently so hard to get motherboards for.
It is worth noting there are lots of SMB's that this will be fine for who really just want/need the reliability of enterprise grade hardware but don't need everything that current Epyc or Xeon offer for the added cost and TDP.
@@nadtz I see. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. :)
@@MidWitPride The EPYC 4004 CPUs are not just about power; they’re about future-proofing. With PCIe Gen 5 and USB 20Gbps support, these processors are ready for the next gen, AMD is committed, and it shows in this new lineup at least now in regards to accessibility. Its all about those precious lanes atm for myself, wish I could indulge...
@@MidWitPride Don't worry, your question is perfectly legit and the actual answer is nothing for a home user. This is just a Ryzen chip and AMD has officially confirmed these to work with ECC, Ubuntu, Windows Server, etc.. for the purposes of blame passing at the corporate levels of business.
Same 128 MB of L3 as the 7950X3D. Very disappointingly these are just a different binning/branding/validation of the existing Ryzen SKUs. No full Vcache versions, no Zen4c versions...this launch is all business no fun. I was excited at first then quickly disappointed...
Same
It’s just useless branding and market segmentation, reminds me of typical Intel behavior of the past.
Yeah honestly I feel like an EPYC on the thread ripper platform makes more sense
@@abavariannormiepleb9470It's not just branding. It is about guaranteeing some validation and official support for that that Desktop Ryzen can technically do (like ECC ram support), but isn't guaranteed on the desktop AM5 platform. It takes care of checkboxes that enterprise customers may require, but don't really make any real difference for say home server use.
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 not just that, also binning; 7950X is binned for peak perf, 4854P is binned for sustained perf, use 7950X in your server in the default settings and you'll end up in a failed CPU in two years, use 4854P in your gaming PC in the default settings and you'll still have a working AM5 CPU while others are looking for upgrade CPUs for their AM5 motherboards
Honestly what is the difference between this and a desktop am5 7000 proc on a motherboard like an x670E steel legend? I can do all this on a Linux server now. We dont even get a huge amount of pcie lanes or anything.
I am thinking the same.
Certified chips which have features built into their silicon which Ryzen doesn’t have and which are cheaper than conventional EPYC CPUs.
I didn't even know about that Xeon-E2400 series, it's kinda crazy that they are selling an i9 with all 16E cores disabled.
Yeah, that's just plain stupid, i mean those extra E-cores are best suited for servers anyway, not clients.
Makes one wonder what Intel could do with 32 or 64 E cores (or more?) for a budget build. What will $100 or $200 purchase in 2024? It’d be nice if it’d be something that had some value.
@@NuggetsAndLaundry I haven't heard anything about such project, they have the 8E core Alder Lake-N chip on the market for laptops and mini PCs and 144E core/chiplet Sierra Forest server chip announced, but nothing in between.
@@NuggetsAndLaundry the 144core chip will almost certrainly have cut down 60-70 core wariants but that's still gonna cost like two grand I'd imagine.
@@lharsay yep, I was thinking more of entry level price/performance for us running small businesses servers.
Why would I get an EPYC with only 2 memory channels (like any other desktop cpu)? When my server with EPYC has 8?
Because the workload you want for your (small) server doesn't require it and you want to save money. Otherwise AMD is certainly very happy to sell you any other Epyc.
Ryzen "pro" labeled cpus facilitated functions like baseboard management control
the timing... I was just looking for a 4 core CPU to upgrade my E3 firewall. Let's hope the server motherboard is not too crazy on pricing.
no rdimm support :-(
No dual X3D sku is pretty lame.
they tried and no, desktop or small business server software doesn't behave well with heterogeneous CPU cores, especially the type that incurs a NUMA
@@erkinalp dual x3d would be non-heterogeneous. Currently one CCD has X3D and the other dose not, thus a heterogeneous setup.
I dont understand people saying "what is the difference between epyc 4004 and ryzen 7000" like, my man did you watched the whole video? IT'S ALL ABOUT THAT
(holds hands slightly apart) "Gamers"
As a consumer, I'd love it if my next system properly supported ECC and was super stable, but had more affordable pricing.
This is great news, thanks Potato 👍
The lack of LTS is still a big problem. When you can not even get 5 years that is just way too short for many applications -.-
if they can fix that -finally.
I don't generally care about ecc memory, baseband management is nice, but I'd GLADLY trade those things for a reasonable number of pcie lanes (64 or so should do nicely). i'm tired of either having a 16x pcie card or an x8/x8 setup. once I've installed a nic and an hba, for example, i'm done. or if you want to use all 16 lanes for a gpu, that's pretty much it... sure there's typically a 4x slot, but that's usually shared with your second m.2 slot so that's not a great option either.
AMD last entered this realm back in the Piledriver days with the AM3+ Opterons. I have an Opteron 3365 8 Core Chip. They offer much in the same as with being aimed at the low end server area. Nice to see them coming down this way again. Im definitely upgrady as my Opteron is a bit long in the tooth and even though ill be going from an 8 core to a 4 core 8 thread. The performance will be so much better.
Im curious why you didnt go with AM4 3900x in the past 4 years
If I'm looking at options for a homelab setup, is there any particular benefit of choosing 4004s compared to ryzen 7000s?
"up to 192GB at DDR5-5200"
Can you have both at the same time?
I am a bit disappointed that Dell, or HPE haven't shown interested in these yet. They woule slot in very well in between something like a PowerEdge R360 and R6615.
What's the cheapest way to get 40 pcie lanes (because people are talking about it).
3930K was £479 or £682 today (and likely £800 in buying power parity) but wasn't a xeon.
E5-1650 (6c12t and 130w) was same price back in the day so nearest equivalent.
Struggling to think of a time you could get a xeon with loads of pcie lanes and cores for a reasonable MSRP.
This basically replaces the Ryzen pro lineup?
No, Ryzen pro is for office desktop segment, AM4/AM5/BGA EPYC is for low power servers and embedded systems with occasional peak loads.
correct me if im wrong but ryzen hasnt eec disabled anyway? and you can run windows server LTS on ordinary ryzens as well? i dont see a single upside here unfortunately.
Do we know if the BIOS of standard AM5 boards will allow these to boot or if they will he restricted to certified EPYC AM5 boards?
I think the whole idea is to sell low cost products for server markets and the use of AM5 platform means (to me) that standard BIOS should support it, and I remember see some videos about leaks of some OEMs updating his AM5 firmware months ago for this, however I am not an expert
Yes, it does, but BIOS upgrade required.
Wow excellent value
So will the memory bandwidth be a lot more, and latency be a lot less compared to regular AM5 systems? 2 channel memory doesn't sound like a lot.
No, desktop ryzen has the same memory configuration with two channels supporting similar clock speeds, capacities and all. The only difference is guaranteed support for ECC memory.
you want 4 at least indeed.
So this is the new "Ryzen pro" and what will they do with "threadripper pep"
as an SMB this is interesting. do we know about system integrator going forward with this already? (not yet finished viewing, maybe it‘s in there after the 50% mark :) )
The issue here are the PCIe lanes. AM5 lacks the proper pin count. While I think that for SOHO application threadripper is a bit to much.
I'm on LGA2011-v3 with 40 lanes and the only problem I'm having is the lack of bifurcation support. (I would love to use a passive adapters for NVME)
I think that a good system could be MB with a PLX with upstream PCIe v5 and downstrem PCIe v4.
And yes lanes are important for both NVME, good old spinning drives, GPUs, or whatever you need in the machine and as newer revisions are harder and harder to split passively
expecially now that SLI/Crossfire is dead... maybe AI workloads can shift the balance again.
I have the same issue with lack of bifurcation on my home NAS with a similar Xeon chip. If you’re also on an X99 motherboard they do in fact support bifurcation, it’s just annoyingly not exposed on the UEFI BIOS menu. However, you can make a custom edited BIOS that enables bifurcation, but it’s not for the feint of heart… just figured I’d let you know it was possible if you want to go down that route.
@@einsteinx2 i have the bios modded but it's not working for my mainboard.
Ah that sucks, I really hope I have better luck. I bought a couple bifurcated nvme cards and got all the info prepped to do the mod but haven’t attempted it yet. Really annoying they didn’t just make it a bios option to begin with.
That's the problem I've been having. It's all well and good to have the bandwidth of 28 or whatever pcie gen 5 lanes, but I'd rather have 112 gen 3 lanes which is the same bandwidth
and only 2 channels
I wonder how single thread performance will differ to Ryzen 7950X. But it looks like amazing product even for small server niche.
Should be mostly the same, except these CCD's may be server-grade, aka the GOOD bins of silicon - so Frequency might actually be a bit higher.
@@predabot__6778The frequency won't be higher. Server parts are binned for higher stability.
@@predabot__6778 both 7950X and 4845P are good bins, but differently good; former for peak performance, latter for sustained performance
neither amd or intel read the room of what people actually want eh ?
Will there will be ANY possibilities to make it work on X670 chipsets ???
Reminds me of Opteron on socket 939.
Server chip on a desktop platform. It was a great overclocker too.
ASRock Rack has both AM4 and AM5 1U servers that run on Ryzen 5000/7000 CPUs with ECC ram and IPMI bells and whistles. The fine print was always that it's an unqualified config. So while it might work, it was never specifically tested and qualified to run that way. In my own anecdotal experience, there was never an issue with anything. Other then now being a qualified server platform, there's probably no difference in the chips. If anything, I'd guess maybe the server SKUs would be more focused on all-core speed as opposed to single core speed. For instance I could see Epyc being slightly slower in gaming benchmarks but slightly faster in kernel compiles per whatever versus their Ryzen counterparts.
28 PCIe lanes is anaemic why would I bother, you get Threadripper and EPYC for the lanes you can split to stack NVME flash, I'll wait for old servers
You answered your own question, if you want lanes you get threadripper or Epyc, this is for small business, did you not watch the video?
This will be such a huge upgrade over my ryzen 1700 unraid system!! So excited!
07:30 "min base frequency"
questionable comparison
This is pretty good.
Renting x3d epyc hardware servers for gaming servers will be awesome
Also will it support huge ass REG ECC memory?
I'm looking forward to the STH Project Tiny Mini Micro review of this new product line. It's a segment that has been dominated by entry level Xeons for ages
aren't most of the tiny/mini/micro machines based on desktop CPUs like Ryzen APUs and Intel mobile chips?
But how well do they run RandomX? ;)
So odd to see an AMD chip with the part number 4004 when that was the part number of Intels first microprocessor.
"SMB & Hosters" 3:26 - They made a Super Mario Bros capable CPU???
Going only up to 16 cores seems like a bit of a missed opportunity, I think. Given a lot of the tasks that are going to be run on these can leverage as many cores as you throw at them and that it would be more efficient I think there should've been an option for a "hybrid" with one Zen 4 CCD with 8 cores and one CCD with 16 Zen 4C cores for 24 cores/48 threads total. It feels like we have been stuck at 16 cores for a while now--since Zen 2 launched in 2019--and it'd be nice to start seeing an increase in core count again, with the added benefit that it would increase efficiency.
These are server parts. You have 128core Bergamo if you want more cores.
We don't need more cores in desktop, day to day apps barely can use more than 8 cores and professional software are in the threadripper market
@@reiniermoreno1653 This are server parts not desktop parts.
Surprised there are no CPUs with 35W TDP for appliances or even CPUs similar to current APUs ie mix of full fat Zen4 and Zen4C cores.
You can configure existing AM5 CPUs down to 35W TDP very easily.
Can someone clarify for me why this is compelling to people? I see a rebranded Ryzen lineup with identical specs. Ryzen supports ECC (UDIMM) just like these which now works on many boards and I believe TSME is also there. These do not support the virtualization features found on other EPYC lineups. Most of the marketing material is effectively showing how Ryzen compares in performance to equivalent Xeon processors.
Server operating systems would work with Ryzen so the only potential feature I really understand is remote management which is a board feature and I don't see details about this on their product pages. Just that it's a thing and multiple chipset options will be available.
Unless I'm mistaken I basically see a product that could just be a lineup of AM5 motherboards except putting Ryzen CPUs in a server environment doesn't look professional so these CPUs exist instead.
ECC on Ryzen is not qualified. Just because it says it's working in the Bios doesn't mean it is actually working on those platforms.
Also, long term server OS image support. Guarantees operability based on customer need. In the enterprise segment, having thing validated and supported for X years becomes minimum specification. 'we expect it to' or 'pretty sure it will' isn't good enough when an issue could cause a compromised system and security issue.
@@TechTechPotato I appreciate the reply. I understand ECC is notoriously finnicky on Ryzen but it seems to be functioning on many consumer boards now. It was rough at launch but I've seen people validating this in Wendel's forum. There are also server targeted AM5 boards like the rack mount Asrock launched awhile back that does officially validate both non-ECC and ECC and UDIMMS.
I hear you what you're saying about long-term OS support, it all just seems a bit strange for this performance class and there are already data centers that have been selling Ryzen PRO-based dedicated servers with ECC for a while. If it at least offered more EPYC features or PCIE lanes I could see a reason to justify its existence but hopefully available boards make it worthwhile.
@@TechTechPotato not only that, PBO defaults of Ryzen 7000 and EPYC 4000 are different.
Sweet, this is right up my alley. How many PCIe lanes does it have? Never mind.
These could be quite nice to use for an IPS firewall system in smaller environments.
This is just rebranded 7950x3d. AMD did not equip the second CCD with a 3D-V cache...
Glad to see they're adding to something between the HEDT and Home PC Market, but dollar to dollar, how would this compete vs the old Epyc 7551P with 7 slots? I get a new feature set. higher ipc on boost clock with lower power, but the fact is how many PCIE lanes available, and no motherboard for this set I look at has 7 usable slots, even if 4 were only x4? I don't feel the consumer home market is being as well met outside of saving some heat and power out of the wall would take over 3-4 years to make up the price difference, and that doesn't even account for ram costs. Is the higher IO worth it when we can't build our NAS's, video rendering boxes, etc due to lack of 7 physical slots on most boards available.
65w for 16 cores @ 3.7 ghz?...jeez that is crazy good for small business/light gaming server...Im definitely in on that
Without more pci lanes, what's the point?
it's for customers who dont need allot of pcie lanes?
Also it has more pcie lanes than what those customers are currently running...
Xeon E: 16pcie5, 4pcie4
Epyc4004: 24pcie5
Yes, it's just a Ryzen with ECC and BBM ready; however, damn that on the 4464P looks to be the sweet spot. 12 cores @ 65W? for SMB/hosting/VM purpose, you could put something together low power and grab what you're after.
Can't even afford food anymore and this guy's still excited about CPUs
Try? a black edge for the overlay?? idk...
Don't ask a question "what does this mean" then answer it.
Just answer it 😂
Which low budget CPU is best for Workstation/Server build ( Most PCIe lanes, Low power, lots of cores, High clock speed ).
2:07 This is a weird arrangement of PCIe slots...
designed for their custom chassis, maybe also had risers and whatnot
But they have 8 slots ram?
I can't decide if it's funny or disappointing how casual people are about 64mb of L3 cache on a consumer platform. Not to surreptitiously toot any horns here, but that's a huge on-chip cache for a single height CPU, and it's not even the top of it's line, this is just the first chip they had enough of after the first few binning cycles to sell.
PCIE lanes aside these would make amazing on prem workstations. These are perfect for software defined servers where you just add and remove machines to pools/clusters as needed.
AMD EPYC 4564P is AMD's fastest single core processor until the 9000 series hits. That's nuts to me.
AMD Epyc 4004 is a interesting name. 1971 is remember something
it is a reference to intel, remember that amd started as a second source manufacturer to intel
I'm not sure if the graph at 8:01 make it look as good as they were trying to... it says they do x1.6 perf going from a 95W TDP CPU to a 170W TDP CPU that cost 100$ more x_x I know I know nobody pays for power these days... allegedly
This might be the answer for game servers in your home lab.
It looks like just a 7950x ECC ver.
I was kinda missing AMD equivalent of Intels Xeon E/D/W series, really good deal that AMD is going now to SMB and entry products
not enough lanes unless we get some good ones with switches, also Rdimm would have been nice
Whats the benefit of these CPUs? You can already run ECC on normal ryzen, there are server boards available for normal ryzen, these new chips have the same pcie lanes and memory channel count, since they're just rebranded chips. Is this supposed to promote more servers around the Ryzen and similar processors?
Enterprise has another level of qualification and validation for hardware aswell as OS support so your small business doesn't suddenly have its important client info getting corrupted or the accounting programs going unsupported this time next year.
@@tomstech4390 has there ever been an instance where a consumer CPU has been the root cause of data corruption? No backups or raid or checksumming filesystem? Consumer chips can still run ecc, and vendors like asrockrack still have a qvl for consumer Ryzen boards. Also what software won't run on Ryzen but will on epyc? Especially software for a small business
@@konzo5942 yes, there is; consumer grade CPU+consumer grade RAM combo has about one in 100 million bit error rate
thankfully AMD also supports memory encryption
I really wish they would produce and SOC of this with a BGA. If they could just make it in the US that would be great. Now if they would sell just the CCUs and allow a custom IOcomplex that would be even better. I have a project that could really use this in an SOC or even better the ccus. Or allow outside folks to add they own chipletts and packaging.
Sad thing is its still basically missing all parts that most people would need of a cheap CPU like that
Now if only there were motherboards for it too...
Like for the previous AM4 platform where ECC was also technically supported, barely any motherboard had that support. Asus had like a single model, and asrock had several models that were never sold anywhere and are out of production by this time most likely.
If you want something like a HEDT do not look further and go for a threadripper 7000 serie instead.
They're sampling the hunger for it before Computex. I'll very curious to see what the compatibility looks like.
But can it beat 7800x3d in Crysis?
So what Intel did with Xeons. This is awesome! I'm in!!!
Still has too little PCIE, which would be the whole point of going epyc, for me.