Minnesota lawmakers: "now every* device gets a repair manual!" (featuring Free Geek Twin Cities)
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- *some restrictions apply, because of course they do. :/
In today's episode of Veronica Explains, I talk about Minnesota's new right-to-repair law, the "Digital Fair Repair Act". Which is epic, yet sadly has some "interesting" carveouts. I also interview two awesome staff members at Free Geek Twin Cities, one of my favorite places in all of the land!
Minnesotans will now get free manuals for most consumer electronics, thanks to this new law! And because most manufacturers will be expected to make the free manuals available online, that probably means everyone gets free manuals!
Links for you:
⚖️ The law: www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/2023/... (it's Sec. 11. [325E.72], search for "Digital Fair Repair")
🔧 iFixit's read on it: www.ifixit.com/News/75965/
💾 Free Geek Twin Cities: freegeektwincities.org
👕 Buy my shirt on my website: vkc.sh/merch
Chapters for you to peruse:
0:00 I'm no lawyer but I think it's an introduction
0:22 More repair manuals than ever before!
1:31 What exactly does the new Minnesota repair law say?
2:10 Of course there's carveouts
3:35 Interview with Free Geek Twin Cities about Right to Repair!
7:44 What's next for us in repairland?
Lastly, my channel wouldn't be possible without support from viewers like you. If you'd like to help me make more Veronica Explains, I would welcome you to become a channel member at Ko-Fi (ko-fi.com/VeronicaExplains) or Patreon ( / veronicaexplains . I appreciate you for thinking about supporting me in my endeavor to explain Linux, vintage tech, and more.
#righttorepair #retrocomputing #minnesota - Наука та технологія
(Adam from Free Geek here) Thank you so much for taking the time to interview us. This is good legislation that will hopefully receive a few tweaks in the future.
Thank you so much for helping me out, it was a pleasure!
You guys at FreeGeek are such heroes! In this day and age, your work is very very very important for the society!
THANK YOU!
You guys are doing amazing work... keep it up! :)
Thank you, Minnesota!!👍👍
Thinking of Walter Mondale, Hubert Humphrey, and Eugene McCarthy.
I'm from Minnesota too and I was pretty excited when I saw our region mentioned on Louis Rossman's channel, especially considering how long the fight for this has been going on for!
We used to have a Free Geek here in Vancouver until it shut down back in November under murky circumstances. I volunteered there over a decade ago. I learned the ins and outs of refurbishing and recycling computers, and even got to adopt a Free Geek build after 24 volunteer hours. It had a 2.2 GHz Athlon 64 3500+, an 80 GB mechanical hard drive and came installed with Ubuntu 12.04. That was my daily PC for a few years, I experimented with various Ubuntu-based distros (like Mint 13 Cinammon edition and Lubuntu/Xubuntu 13.xx) and I even learned how to use bash on it. Although I underwent a lot of suffering trying to get Ubuntu to play nice on that potato hardware, I also learned more about what goes on under the hood, so to speak. Younger generations are less computer literate because, ironically, of how slick and "just works" the modern smartphone/tablet user experience is.
Free Geek Vancouver also had open help nights on Wednesdays which saved my bacon on multiple occassions. I bought a Wii there for $35 CAD in 2017, long before Wii prices went through the roof. I'll always be grateful to Free Geek for making me a smarter computer user.
Good news that musical instruments are not excluded. Always good to be able to obtain service manuals for synthesisers and mixing boards etc.
I want to circuit bend my trumpet.
Great news! I'm European and interested in R2R on our side of the pond, but I watch Louis Rossmann and his battles. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but hopefully it's gonna be a big win in the long run. Loved the episode :)
I'm predicting that a lot of components are going to be classified as "trade secrets" in order to skirt the law. I really hope I'm wrong. :( But I agree 100%, the fight isn't over, there's still much more work to do. Thank you for putting out this excellent video - the more public awareness we can get on the Right To Repair issue, the better!
I really envy the quality of your dot-matrix printer; not a single missing dot among all those paragraphs, consistent black color across lines, no smearing and the use of continuous feed paper makes your printing a 5/5 stars.
Not meaning to offend my American friends but your country tends to be at the donkeys end when it comes to consumer rights, so this is great. Things like what you talk about and even the infamous John Deere change are good news for yourselves and the rest of the world.
Pinned comment!
Big thanks to Adam and Amanda from Free Geek for chatting. Adam has a channel ( ua-cam.com/users/RetroTechToys ) that you should check out.
Also, I wrote a blog post about the idea that companies will leave Minnesota over this new law. I don't think that's likely for a few reasons and I outlined them here: vkc.sh/no-the-digital-fair-repair-act-will-not-cause-companies-to-leave-minnesota/
The carve-out for medical devices is really painful to me, especially for implantable medical devices. I think of bionic eyes like the Argus II and the Dobelle Artificial Vision System as examples of undocumented and unserviceable implants that have been abandoned by their manufacturers, and have been rendered a ticking time-bomb to the patients that have them. Patients weren't even informed of the possibility that this could happen when they had the implants installed.
This is great news. Let's hope more States do something similar. Those Free Geek guys were so dedicated.
I'm loving the STANCE you've taken. As a repair engineer, I'm really looking forward to this and hopefully it will make my and a lot of others jobs easier. Not only will this be good for the consumer but also the planet! Farming equipment sounds like *Cough* a dear John scenario.. *cough*
As always, you're awesome.
Even though the carve outs are questionable, this is definitely a step in the right direction. Hopefully more states will take notice and start doing the same. I'm a big fan of Free Geek, I've purchased several laptops from Free Geek Chicago and they've all run perfectly fine for many years beyond their "shelf life".
As someone who's been in a few hospital basements and seen some invoices, I couldn't call those carveouts questionable, but rather entirely predictable and unsurprising.
Agreed. Hopefully this will rapidly spread to Europe too - I know France has passed some legislation, but other European countries are still reluctant.
But yeah! Definitely a [small] step in the right direction. 👍
(PS Free Geek is so awesome! wish we had something like that over here)
It is a huge victory, and it's just common sense. Louis Rossmann is a UA-camr who has been working on this for farm equipment, and I think his efforts have recently met with some success as well.
I love that "Guaranteed Offer" thumbnail! That's a little too perfect 😀
My Congress person Marie Glussenkamp Perez 3rd district of Washington State is a Auto shop owner with her husband and is working on a right to repair bill i have hopes.
I myself have stopped buying anything that I cannot repair, this is the first consideration of wither or not I will purchase a product.
That's amazing! Good job Minnesota
Another similar issue is HP issuing a "printer update" that makes their printers not work unless all the ink cartridges are HP brand. In Europe that is illegal and HP has been fined millions of dollars there. Should be illegal here.
Love that passive aggressive snark about the carve-outs.
Woot! Go Minnesota! We've been passing some great laws lately.
Huzzah from Minnesota! There are dozens of us. DOZENS!
It is so comfy to be here. Love your channel ❤
Such a great video! Thorough and packed so full of Minnesota flavor, I almost thought it was a hotdish! I also love how you printed the legislation on continuous form paper. Your videos rock.
The parts of the code show here have some pretty big loopholes though:
1. A manufacturer/distributor can slap on a label that says "not for sale in Minnesota".
2. There's an exception if the docs are not available. Which means contract manufacturing will lose them.
3. Documentation will only be made available on really expensive gold leaf paper, which can be charged for.
4. Trade secrets (as mentioned).
Thanks for the video ! I don't know if this has to do with the work that Louis Rossman has been doing over the last years with apple and other pc manufacturers, he went to speak in the Congress(Washington) for the right to repair about three years ago and that helped a lot.
This is a great step in the right direction. Thanks for the video!
Those are some nice Star Trek Voyager DVDs you got back there. The video quality gets really good on the later seasons especially.
Nice to see that Minnesota is doing something on this too - EU is working on the "Right to repair: Making repair easier for consumers". Sorry, can't link to it, as UA-cam keeps deleting my post, as they don't allow linking.
I've noticed a lot of folks links won't appear on my feed. Some won't appear at all and some get sent to my review hold. Not sure why it's inconsistent, sorry about that!
And yes for right to repair in the EU! I have some cautious optimism that some good will come of this recent bundle of legislation.
Thank you so much for making this informative video!! I am actually excited for the prospects that this new law may provide to all end-user/consumers throughout the u.s.! :)
Welcome back good to see you uploading
Ah, htop in the background. One of my favorite cli commands.
HUGE Free Geek TC fan here! This was stellar!
1000% with you on all your points about right to repair and the need for sustainable, repairable products. You betcha, Minnesota! 👍❤
Being from Minnesota is nothing to be ashamed of.
This is excellent news! Thanks for the great video, Veronica. Also congratz Minnesota!
They will make them available, but the amount of specialist tools and other junk that will be required will still stop most people being able to do it. Anyone that has tried repairing some of the latest smartphones will know what I am talking about, absolute nightmare compared to even a generation or so back.
I used to have the service manual for my SONY MDP-850D back in the 90s. Right now considering buying a Mac Studio or more memory for one of the SuperMicros running proxmox.
If anyone is interested, Louis Rossman is one of the ppl pushing to pass the right to repair laws in the US. He has a youtube channel with that name in case you want to know more about the proceedengs and how to help more in order to get this laws passed all around the country
Everyone repeat after me: THANK YOU LOUIS
Oh, this is a way bigger deal than I thought. It'll be interesting to see whether this holds up to legal challenges.
(Also, Free Geek PDX fan and volunteer here. That reminds me, I should do another tour of volunteering...)
This is awesome, I really hope this expands
As I was watching the video, I found myself planning and plotting this 'comment', since so much to say by the fact that I agree with on so many levels ... but really it just boils down to the fact that you rock and that is why I keep coming back! I live in Ontario and am unclear on its position in this regard... You have instigated this pursuit ... Thanks again Veronica :)
As always writing a comment to support the channel
dude, this is hella rad !
Brilliant thumbnail. Great job as always, Veronica
Thanks for sharing.
I remember getting the electronics schematic with my TV in the 90s (in the good-old through-hole times). This fits your love for ye-olde-times well.
Going to shout-out your channel to my students (aged 15-17 ish, place them in your local school system where applicable ;) )
It has to start somewhere. Definitely would be nice to see farming equipment to be repairable and I am sure it will get there over time. Medical Equipment should at least give the ability to make 3rd parties able to be certified to get repair (at least easier). It seems the bar for entry means having to be employed by the bio-med company to even touch the product.
I live in the UK this type of law should be world wide. The farm machine from memory something happened to John Deere on the BBC web site US farmers win right to repair John Deere equipment(9 Jan 2023)?
This is a very promising start. I hope that other states follow suit. Thanks for your outstanding report.
Let see the kickbacks the state has gotten from those companies like Toro. Cmon complete transparency with all govt agencies. Lets see your bank statements just like you would demand ours.
Is this good news? YES! You betcha. just subscribed too.
htop in the background >> cmatrix in the background
We've got the dollars, so we have the power. Start putting your foot down on what you will and won't buy.
The cyber-security carve-out smells rather strongly to me... "security by obscurity" and all that.
Did I just see a Dymo tape from a Dymo label maker ? Holy retro label makers Batman!!!
Fairphone, Framework and UHK are ready today for this legislation. They're the three manufacturer's that I know of. Are there others?
I think it would be cool to see a colab between Veronica and ThisDoesNotComp. Same region, same city even maybe?
I repair (or attempt to repair) stuff in my free time. I would love to volunteer in a place like that ;(
Greaaaat news.
(Are electronic appliances actually still landing on a landfill in the US? Still, repair is far better than recycling.)
Hopefully laptops like Framework and System76 becomes mainstream. The same should apply to the cell phones and printers. As Veronica proves, nobody should need more than 1 printer during their lifetime.
They will design new hardware so that they are not repairable. I’ve also noticed that things like servers are getting harder to repair or upgrade. Ie having to buy genuine ram over generic stuff even though it’s the same spec.
Strictly-business question: Is Minnesota a large enough market that companies won't simply ... stop selling in the state (i.e., market exit) to avoid compliance?
That's a lot of money to leave on the table, especially considering Minnesota won't be the last state to do this sort of thing.
@@VeronicaExplains Google (at least for a while (?)) pulled the plug in China because they weren't willing to comply with local laws ... and people repairing things seems like it'd get in the way of selling more planned-obsolete crap. (In case nonobvious, I totally hope that you're right, though ... Right to repair is awesome + so are youuuuu!)
We have to fund somebody to buy one of everything.
Minnesota? So it's just a matter of centuries for the rest of the world!
"Passive aggressively" changes the state of repair HAha that's the most MN thing I ever heard
So I worked in a hospital&university research lab for +13 years doing among other things medical device design. No there isn't a reason to except it. Sure this stuff often doesn't have any security but that doesn't mean the repair manual shouldn't be public as newer products created after the law would I assume be created with security baked in.
Will the warranty be voided if we work on it? Or do we have to be certified and trained before we work on it in order to keep the support? This will just make it easier for companies to not accept returns and just say you tried to fix it and you are not certified so we can't accept it back.
Since 1975 the Magnuson-Ross Act has made it clear that self-repair does not automatically void your warranty. Unfortunately the law doesn't really matter until you get the legal system involved to contest an unlawfully-declined warranty claim.
As an unemployed tech writer, this is welcome news indeed! 😅 btw, what's the cool punk band in the outtro?
The carve out for farm equipment and road vehicles is just plane wrong.
Kinda hoping the carve-out issue will fix itself. All it will take is one manufacturer to offer repairability as a sales argument and the others will follow.
i'm predicting some brands will stop selling their products in this state
Yay, we might finally go back to what has been the norm for a century.
Oh Deere!
My cousin has been in IT for a while now and they emulate hardware in the cloud now. It's all fluff and magic. BA
There used to manuals for cars, but since everything is integrated electronics - different story.
I remember the day when I got a Service Manual for my Atari 1040STE. 😃
The carve outs s are probably lobbied and don’t make any sense ATT ALL. Why should you not be able to repair something and rather become landfill? What would the lobbyists says, if we took broken device, especially cars and farming equipment 😅, and dump it in their front yard? 😆
Oh what I wouldnt give to volunteer there.
I'm from Minnesota and that place gave me my start in IT, and currently supplies me with all my cables and most of my electronics. It's a wonderful place.
star trek voyager fan ❤
They will own no one and be very unhappy.
6:36 "It seems kinda SCSI" 🤪
Not gonna fix the mcdonalds milkshakes!
I think the Taylor ice cream machines actually would be covered. Sadly I think the issues are largely due to purchasing contracts prohibiting outside repair. There's a company called Kytch which made a device (apparently Pi-based) which aids diagnostics and now they are in court with Taylor.
Thank you for this very interesting information.
I hope that this law will impact the right to repair everywhere in the world.
Although many devices require a such law, I am however having a few words of caution.
Are you aware that, for example, a poorly repaired insulin pump can kill its user?
There are cases and devices that, as a consumer, I do *NOT* want to repair myself.
"Right to repair" does not mean "please repair this yourself".
To put it another way- the brake system in my car should absolutely be repairable. I, as an untrained person, should not do this without the training. Training which is significantly easier if the parts, tools, and documentation are accessible.
Right-to-repair for medical devices wouldn't harm patients. If anything, it would make it easier to train the specialized experts needed to help more patients.
Thank you for your answer. In theory, you are absolutely right. In practice, if tools and procedures are easily available, things may happen quite differently.
@@marie-noellebaechler1433 People already try to fix their things. If proper procedures are easily available people will know if they're doing it wrong.
I'm not convinced it would be different with medical devices vs any other equipment. My electrical panel is certainly dangerous. Slipping up with where I put the screwdriver could lead to certain death for me, or anyone working on the system.
But because tools and procedures are readily available, I am able to receive proper training to be able to update and repair my system. Without that training, and without that oversight, it would be immeasurably less safe to repair.
I don't see why medical devices are any different. I don't see why any consumer electronics are any different. "Here's a repair manual, note that it's dangerous" isn't the same thing as "please fix this yourself, nobody wants to help you anymore." The presence of standards and repair manuals for my electrical system hasn't stopped electricians from getting business. If anything, it's helped them. And yes, some folks *have* made mistakes and died as a result- I doubt the presence of a manual made much of a difference in the outcome.
@@VeronicaExplains I respect your position and I do Not want to convince you at all costs.
But, please, keep in mind that you are very clever, trained and educated, that you know your limits ans you have common sense.
Althoug you are not the only one, this is not the case of everybody, and I have seen people doing extremely stupid things.
Compagnies producing machines are also bound by liability rules.
uh... they... they'll just stop selling a bunch of stuff in minnesota ._.
I wrote a blog about why I don't think they will. vkc.sh/no-the-digital-fair-repair-act-will-not-cause-companies-to-leave-minnesota/
Get every Battery device to have removable batteries, by LAW. No more glued together crap from Apple, Samsung, etc. If it has a battery, the device must be open-able and the battery removeable.
Are you saying that I will not be able to enter into an agreement with a manufacturer to buy a product that has no repair manuals? Or that if I don't want to do repairs I will still pay the same price as those who do? I will in effect subsidize the repair manuals for others? If these are true, I don't like it one bit. Giving up freedom for security never ends well.
lol
3
My VPN doesn't have a MN link. Rats!
I hope you won't need one!
I can kinda see why one wouldn't want random folks doing repairs on medical equipment for safety reasons. On the other hand, in a medical crisis (like, oh I don't know, a global pandemic?), healthcare providers being able to make emergency repairs can mean a difference between life and death. Also, producers should be obligated to release all the necessary documentation and tools to the public whenever they abandon a product, be it medical or otherwise. So a separate piece of legislation perhaps?
imagine a world where you can upgrade your Vintage computer with modern parts the way you can with Vintage cars, If henry ford had made cars the way Apple makes computers today where would the car industry be today just Black?
Of course farm equipment 🙄
Apple keep going on about the gaming capabilities of their latest laptops. Nobody believes them obviously, but are they trying to position it as a "gaming console" to claim it is exempt from this law?
And I guess the other problem is that Apple will tell you to replace the entire logic board when the only thing that is broken on it is the battery management chip.
This is the hippest. I hope the carve outs go away.
I’d love to have a place like Free Geek in my community!
2:30 "Medical devices"
I am 100% for a right to repair, but you simply should not mess with medical devices. Simple example: A grandma has a heartrate monitor and it beeps an errorcode. Her grandson, who is in fact a moron, decides to "repair" it and get's it not-quite-right because he doesn't have a calibration device (those are either expensive and good, or cheap and inaccurate) and now the monitor reports a rate that is ever so slightly too high. Grandma is elated, uses the device, gets a high heartrate, takes her medicine and she's happy she caught it in time. An hour later her heartrate is still on the high side so she takes another pill, and another and another and a few hours later grandma is just able to call 911 as she is dying due to heartfailure.
Now think glucose monitor, oxygen saturation, bloodpressure and let's not talk about the horrors of insuline injectors that are fixed badly and start injecting air... I don't want to even think about how many people are going to get eachother killed by "helping them beat big-pharma"
No seriously, don't fix medical devices. You're simply not good enough to get the quality of work and when something inevitably does go wrong then *YOU* become personally responsible for the damages. Don't think you can blame the repair manual because they will start with a notice that says that if you open up the device they will drop all responsibility for what happens from then on. :Warrenty void if seal broken" so to speak.
Please don't be a d*ck, get your medical devices fixed responsibly.
(and to those who are typing an angry reply: You are probably exactly the kind of person who is going to get somebody killed because you overestimated your abilities.
The fact that working on medical devices can be dangerous does not mean that repair information should be hidden. If I take something in to be fixed by someone else I still want to know what is going to be done so I am well-informed.
DEFINITELY A RIGHT TO REPAIR GUY.
I guess Apple will stop selling their products in/to Minnesota and Minnesotans will have to go to neighboring states to buy their iPhones and MacBooks.
I'm torn on the medical device carve out. I don't know that I want a lay person doing medical device repairs....I feel like that could have unintended consequences. But like, also it would bring medical device costs down, so I don't know. I'm torn.
I think the information should definitely be available even though not everybody should be doing the repairs. In a similar manner not everybody should be performing surgery. How do you ensure you choose a qualified surgeon?
also, people who attempt repairs are likely to do it anyways, it will be safer 8f they have actual instructions
The farm equipment getting a free pass is a kick in the gut. John Deere, you suck.
Being selective about what kind devices need to have repair manuals in public makes sense to me. Repair manual are written with people in that have the training and skill to work the device in question. Which most amateurs won’t be having. Because of that, whenever there is a safety concern you don‘t want every Joe Shmoe with an internet connection to attempt repairs they don‘t have the skills to pull off.
And that's exactly why the manuals are important. If there are genuine safety concerns they should be known so people don't attempt to do things in a dangerous manner.
@@eDoc2020 Repair manuals are not step-by-step instructions any idiot can follow. They're written with the assumption that the readers brings along a lot of knowledge and are of aware safety concerns, because they went to trade school to learn that stuff. If you wanted to include everything trained technicians learn to earn that title into a repair manual, you'd easily triple its volume.
I work in electronics. No repair manual I ever saw told me to be sure capacitors are discharged before I start working because for someone with my training that's on the level of "wire cutters are sharp" and "soldering irons can be hot". But someone who is not aware of that can seriously injure themselves if they touch the contacts of a charged capacitor.
As an electronics technician I know to be mindful that parameters that usually aren't given in a schematic (such power dissipation ratings or maximum voltage ratings of components) matter. A lay person who is not aware of that, might pick the wrong replacement parts and blow the device up the moment it's plugged in.
Repair manuals will also often contain condensed instructions, that lay-people won't be able to follow. For example: Repair manuals will assume you know how to compensate for the off-set of an Op-Amp and just tell you to do it, but not how to do it.
@@MrAranton All the service manuals I've seen which have schematics also have parts listings. Somebody who is not familiar with ratings of parts can just get the exact part mentioned or one their parts supplier lists as a substitute. And if somebody is reading the instructions and the instructions say to do something they don't know how to do they'll either research it separately or take it to somebody else.
If you're talking about hazards like charged capacitors consider this: every video about electronics repair mentions that. I can't imagine anybody _solely_ using manufacturer supplied information unless they already have background knowledge.
Consider this: in the old days (certainly the 1950s and 60s) you could easily get anything needed in order to repair your TV. Yet somehow TV repair shops still existed. That's because people who didn't know how to work on TVs would take it to somebody who did, either a professional or just somebody they knew.
@@eDoc2020 It's not like getting electronics parts is harder now than it used to be in the old days. But back then people didn't have access to repair manuals that weren't written with them in mind. People who didn't know what to do didn't have a starting point to try and figure it out for themselves. and had to take their broken electronics to repairshops.
Also: In the old days restaurants didn't get sued because they served coffee piping hot. It is only a matter of time until a company gets sued because someone injured themselves on a charged capacitor and their repair manual, written with qualified technicians in mind, failed to mention that risk.
@@MrAranton It _is_ like that today. Have you ever heard Louis Rossman complain about not being able to get a CD3217 or whatever chip. Back in the day people who didn't know what to do _did_ have a starting point to try and figure it out for themselves: books and magazines.
Regarding suing over charged capacitors: I just looked at two TV service manuals (one from 1948 and one from 2000) and neither mention charged electrolytic capacitors as a shock risk. Companies only get sued for hot coffee when the coffee is served above typical temperatures without such indication. Basically everything already has shock risk warnings because they know lack of a manual won't stop anyone from shocking themselves.