Hey this comment is completely unrelated to the topic of the video but I hope the person or persons posting these “clips” read this. I really enjoy the long form videos you post regarding topics like this from pro players. Thank you for posting these they’re extremely insightful
This is proof that every other team except TSM are Noob 🤣 It’s normal to sports team using data and analyze the game. Don’t cry when you’re late to the party
@@callmeacutekitten8106 how can you say it’s not fair when the info is PUBLIC yet maybe some team refuse to study it even they might have saw the post but chose to ignore it and only bringing this entire thing out during this period of time.
raven just became the fall guy for all this data mining he just came the coach and used public information but they all watch Tik toks and sit in broken spots in zone and use whatever advantage they can use
I think people just hear the term “data mining” and it sounds like hacking to them or that people are going into servers they can’t have access to for info… when it really is just analyzing game files on YOUR OWN PC that the game installs. How can you say it’s illegal to look at files they put on your computer. If you can get info from that it’s not illegal or immoral or “competitive integrity”
@@cooltron they are not changing the files though. Not writing a script or changing anything in game. They just reading a file.. like reading the weapon files to know all the exact details of every gun. Is it cheating to look at the files on the guns and figure out there exact stats?? Looking at information in a file and changing the file are two different things
It doesn’t matter if it’s in the files or not you know exactly how BR works YOURE not supposed to have advantages you get from data mining otherwise what’s the point. Stop trynna defend that shit you loser
@@richardslade9307 yeah and if you have to go into files then that’s cheating. It’s not on the games menu nor options in game YOURE cheating no matter what and doing it for a competition with money
@@cooltron We can fundamentally disagree but a company can’t store “their file” on MY computer and then say it can’t be looked at for what it contains. Not even a video game thing, just as a general principle of any company putting any file on your computer. I fully agree that any altering of a file that changes anything in the game is cheating. However, looking at information that can’t be changed and simply learning from what is there is fine.
Anything that gives you an advantage that you are not meant to have whether it contributes small or big and literally gets “hacked” or “mined” to have is cheating. Don’t try down talk it because it’s your favourite team
here's the thing, Respawn cannot stop it nor they can monitor it. It's only a matter of time before everyone will use the information. It's just a rule to scare people out but actually do nothing. The smart one will use it first to their advantage and all the other who's bitter will follow it as well. That's the hypocrisy. So knowing this Sweet and what others on that call was being absolutely childish and bitter because they will use it too. They basically just embarrassed themselves.
It's crazy how they ganged up on him in a discord call and still have a low IQ. They literally said "you shouldn't have joined the call"...they told him to join the call and said "if he doesn't join he's guilty" lmfao. Then sweet is coping so hard to try and explain TSM has been cheating for zones by pinning it all on raven saying "stop talking, it's my turn to talk" while they're debating him 4 on 1. 🤣
@@skybtdubz1225 not only that. They also asked Raven to share his work as a TSM analyst to the rest of them. Like it cannot be more dumb than that 😂 As if they are the one paying him or what 😂
@@footballfan5048Having raven said that what he is doing is legal, why would he shares his work for free when he makes that public data being valuable, thats what a data analyst does bruh
So funny coming back to this. They were all so confidently wrong it’s so cringe. “It’s sketchy and against the integrity of the game” is not an argument. Also getting mad that Raven didn’t tell everyone about this is so funny lmao. Legit just brain dead.
here's the thing, Respawn cannot stop it nor they can monitor it. It's only a matter of time before everyone will use the information. It's just a rule to scare people out but actually do nothing. The smart one will use it first to their advantage and all the other who's bitter will follow it as well. That's the hypocrisy. So knowing this Sweet and what others on that call was being absolutely childish and bitter because they will use it too. They basically just embarrassed themselves.
@@jbigg2371 It literally is. Nobody is extracting or manipulating data from EA servers. All info that Raven has is literally from the client side which is the apex legends everyone downloads. You shouldn't be listening to Apex pros who's IT skills revolve around only gaming.
1:28 lol these files are stored locally on the client side (literally just files on your computer from downloading the game). It’s not as if these were encrypted or stored on EAs server / backend. I think people are angry because they are not familiar with those differences and what data mining is.
I hope he's the next to go off nrg. They need a change and he's not it anymore. Best igl in the world untill lan comes and he can't handle the pressure but can talk so much smack, be rude and inconsiderate to everyone else
Analyze: Play the game all the time, analyze the data by the amount of time you play the game. That is OK. Data mining: Know the data instantly without putting effort into it, paying people to get data for you. As the data is in code, which is not for it means to be public. That is CHEATING. It's like in a test, you practice the test by using the previous previous test to predict the test questions, topic etc. And the other guy is just paying the test questions maker for an exact questions. You may not get the answers but you are confident with the data you get. This is the conclusion I get from this topic.
This is stupid. It’s more like having friends who already took the class give u previous tests…. To study… this literally happens too. Any decent fraternities do this during college lmak
Raven is 100% right here. You think the Browns have the same facilities and trainer quality as the Cowboys? Its just an advantage that you have to do to get ahead.
Who’s fault is it that they don’t know public information? They’re mad that they didn’t catch on when someone else tweeted about it? Who’s fault is it that they forgot about that while others caught on and kept asking questions. 😂They’re trying to blame him for something they don’t fully understand when the person they’re blaming knows what they’re talking about 🤣 this is like a student telling the teacher they’re teaching wrong🤦🏻♂️
People trash talking sweet like this something you should be angry about if im understanding correctly they basically used a backdoor to get information that otherwise shouldn't be possible to get
Wdym backdoor? It's public information. That's why Raven said get a better analyst because that info has been on twitter several months ago and if your team didn't pay attention to it, even just for curiousity's sake, then it's on you.
Sweet knew exactly what he was doing. They were railroading Raven while not understanding how he gets the zone info. Sikez literally says Raven don't let them do this to you and Sweet removed him from the call and Dm'd him saying stop being weird. Sweet also lied multiple times. He said who the fuck is Shrugtal and when on a rant about how he's nobody. Later he says he follows him because of zone info he posted.
In highschool, my teacher said that we could have a 2"x4" note card for notes to use on the test. I used Microsoft word to type up full pages of notes in size 5 font to fit on that card. Technically I wasn't cheating but it was def pushing it. This seems similar
Yeah expect you’re not playing for thousands of dollars on the line. That was a weak comparison. It would be more like you saw all the wrong answers on the test so you know what the right answers are
It’s not the competitive rule but the game liscence….. It is just a competitive edge to use more resources to gain more zone data which everyone can do just a matter of time It’s just like F1 team to get better PU, brake and aerodynamic stuffs……
@mojo_radio Let's say the DAS system in mercedes back few years, those things are banned on the NEXT season but not instantly, why ? It simply saying that the FIA allowing them to go through the loophole and they had to stop them because it generates huge advantages. Same circumstance to Apex, apex didn't say anything about the datamine because there are no rules on the competitive side regarding datamining. It is funny that even for current state it is still doable and you still complaining.
@@Mojo_Radio I dont think you get my point, F1 doesn't agree with you. They simply set new rules regarding DAS the next year. So if datamining really that big of a deal, respawn would have did the same and set out rules. Which apparently they didn't. I think that explain all. Also, i dont know what your game knowledge is, but datamining doesn't mean they 100% get to know what the zone is. It is just more likely to end there, keep that in mind nothing is certain in a BR game.
@@Mojo_Radio Competitive gaming is always about preparation. Take CS as the example. They study maps, playstyle, ultility usage, tactics. Right, Zone studying in apex is just another type of preparing. OF COURSE it is fair or else Apex would have set rules against it by now.
They are a bunch of 19-year-olds, with super huge egos, because they happen to be really good at a video game. You shouldn't expect much from these guys lol.
This just shows how much TSM actually takes their job seriously. NRG is always 2nd best because, and even sweet called out of a few of his teammates in the past about is a pack passion and work ethic. TSM plays like they can lose their jobs tomorrow if they don't keep winning, and they are willing to do anything to keep winning.
This is fucking insane Melee thrived for so long where people kept tech to themselves yet in this game it's not okay??? Wow put some work into the game
@@OMGitsHypo It is if you are doing it yourself but using someone's data mined work isn't. That is called a gray area and in terms those are called loopholes and people will use them to their advantage.
I just see a bunch of gorillas mad and ganging up on him because he found an easier way to get bananas, he should've never put himself in this call lol. If a large group of people are stupid and wrong and 1 guy is right, it's IMPOSSIBLE to be right in that setting lol
Not 100% sure who's right or wrong and I understand what Sweet and his band are saying but honestly if I was Raven I wouldn't give a F what they think, whether they think it's sketchy or not, or if he should've shared the info publicly and just wait for EA/Respawn to make it clear on the rules about that
Idk man at work we have a research and development department to have a longer shelf life on our product. Millions is invested to this department. We have some of the long lasting products before it dies. With that being said. Shall the market have a limited for this types of research?i know you cant compare this to a battle royale game. But i kinda understand stand pov of raven. However once everyone finds its always hectic
please dont compare gaming to to an actual business practice. With this argument isnt aimbotting just operating at the most efficient consistency? Not to mention most teams arent backed by ponzi schemes
@@welowee7610 paying for information that an employee of respawn doesnt believe should be a purchasable advantage is not the same as doping or cheating okay right. How about they actually analyze the game by watching GAMEPLAY and playing the game LOL instead they do some slimey shit like this.
Kinda tangential but Respawn should publish the exclusion zones. Like, ppl (myself for 1) want to study the game and get as good as possible, why not publish as much info as possible.
Nah I don’t think respawn should even publish the zones, like me back when season 11 or 12 I’ve been grinding rank for like 12 hrs per day and slowly I to recognise where the zone will likely to close/end.
@@ZeRo-qx2ih and there is information out there that you can study and read on to help you cut those hours. It is like instead of finding a "new" technique but there is information out there 3 months ago showing you how to better that technique.
How are people actually mad about this? Creating drama out of nothing. I’ve looked up zone information on this game like 2 years ago. All it takes is an internet connection
and what was TSM supposed to do, close their eyes and pretend that they didnt see? its not like they datamined it themselves, it was out there if you are not using it, you are not preparing your team for ALGS best to your abilities. This is info you can get by playing the game a lot a lot and seing where zones go, or watching others play. The bottom line is that its up to EA and apex gods to decide. If a teacher doesnt hide a map when you are writing georgraphy test....are you not going to look? everyone else is looking why it should be just you who will fail? And if you are good and studied you dont need it, but dont cry after that you didnt look and everyone scored little better. Is all this 100% correct?...NO, well whoopsie doo, thats life for ya. It aint fair, there is bunch of bugs in the game, that cause teams to lose, the game isnt without a problem and for all the other teams- the map is out there use it!
21:35 I was able to call zones on SP and WE after 500 hours in the game. Pay close attention, and you begin to build a mental map. The idea that it takes thousands of hours is ridiculous
Bro are these guys dense. The reason raven didnt tell anyone before it got exposed is because its a fair competitive advantage so why would a team share their competitive secrets to other pro teams. But now that it is common knowledge, Raven is saying it should be available to everyone because it SHOULD be but that doesnt mean he is gonna be the guy to tell everyone when they can go find out themselves if they want.
People saying that "every pro team in every game datamines and analyzes LUL" most BRs have RNG and not pre-determined zones to notify the "scan" characters where zones end. 100% its like a secret that no one talks about until now. I never saw a single thing about this on any form of social media or talked about by any pro player. People have datamined openly in other games for s, hitboxes, damage, etc, but not something like this. It's literally broken. Any seasoned BR player would think its BS. These pros play apex all day and have access to group chats, discords and teamspeaks you will never know about where they all talk to each other but havent said anything about this up until recently. It isn't part of the game. That being said this game is garbage. :D
people good at playing fps games aren't always the brightest in logic problem solving and discussing the validity of an argument Running in circles for 40 minutes of salty bullying without even taking the time laying the foundation of correct terminology and meaning of words used as ground floor of the argument L M F A O
Raven isn't someone who should've been arguing for his point, he is not good at that. Sweet kept putting words in his mouth, which Raven didn't even say, & Raven kept taking it. It was a literal Trap, & he fell hook line & sinker. I get both side of the point, but it was an argument in "bad faith", malicious even, when you understand what the opponent is saying, but still keep maliciously dunking on them cause they are bad at getting their point across. i had respect for Sweet before, was my top 2 fav Apex streamer. Thought he was a good dude, witty sarcastic with flaws but good dude deep down. He let me & probably a lot of people down. That's how parasocial relationships are i guess, u never know till they are at their worst. & This probably ain't even close to the worst.
Yeah Sweet as a person is actually borderline psychotic and 100% is manipulative and probably abusive in nature whether its physical or verbal. He actually shouldn't have a platform because of how his personality traits are.... actually would beat the shit out of him, he one the few that needs a physical reminder to be a respectful and decent human being.
So pretty much you are either gunna cheat to get an advantage or do some shady shit to get an advantage. Stand up org TSM seems to be. Especially after partnering with FTX. If TSM knows how to run a business, this Raven guy will be fired immediately.
I don't get this at all. This information is free to the public , but other people( teams) and baby sweet can't stop crying about it. God, I hate how much this kid cries when he's getting shit on. Guy has shit the bed in lan for over a year, yet is still considered to be one of the best igls. Just because you can't do some dudiligence and research for you're Team doesn't mean it's cheating. It's been free to the public, it's been out there for forever just like movement techs that have been in the God damn game since day one. Just because it was undiscovered doesn't mean you need to tell the rest of the community to have an advantage at the game. It's access to the map that everyone could have had anyways with some real research. I remember when the shrugtall thing was around with tufi the cheater. It's been around since season 3 and yes has thousands and thousands of likes. It's not data mining , it's using public info to secure spots in a game that plays out many ways
Yeah okay, according to hal's logik, a cheater is just gate keeping the info about him, using a soft tuned aimbot, or that he has walls, lol. Okay dude, good one. Simulating months of gameplay, to see where the zones are NOT ending, with an effing program, after every update, is cheating. And i don't care if the info is public NOW, now that this came out. They surely do that stuff way longer than that. Also i don't care, if the ALGS rulebook is not up to date, because they didn't even think of stuff like that yet. It's against EA's license of agreement, and EVERYONE is playing the game under that, ALSO the comp scene. So it does not matter what the ALGS rulebook says, when it comes to what EA will say about that. They will probably get away with it, regarding ALGS, because it is not in the rulebook, okay. But EA should ban at least all their accounts, that played in ALGS. For me , they've lost all the respect, from a player's perspective. Also, what else are they willing to do to get an advantage, that is not in the ALGS rulebook yet huh. Come on man. Doping in the tour de france, also almost every team is doing, but hal will probably defend it, because as he said, come on, it is competitive, did you think cycling is the only thing you have to worry about, really ? Yeah, hal, it is still cheating. It does not matter if everyone is doing it. You will not normalize cheating dude. None of y'all. Also tsm raven said, that data mining thing is just the tip of the iceberg. imperial yell telling every other team to tryhard more in scrims, after winning the ALGS, what a JOKE dude. Imagine acting like someone, who learned the end zones by playing the game a lot, lol.
its funny their mad if it was ageints the rules then respawn n EA will take action if need e, i understands the compness bc their pro players, but its comp get any adv u can get. sad lol......
Sound like bunch cry babies to me every pro team in every sports try to find a Advantage against every team they play against it’s called watching videos and studying against the Defense whatever if your team not doing your home work. Sound like a bunch of haters to me. Someone explain to me how is this made TSM better Or won a bunch of tournaments because of it.
Everyone getting mad but people try to have a competitive “advantage” over anything that involves winning money, prizes, etc. who gives a fuck lmao. To me TSM going to the lengths to get zones that were data mined is showing they are willing to do what it takes to win, besides why is this so bad when there are actual “pros” who blatantly cheat using soft aim hacks, and wall hacks lol wtf. Just know Apex is a game that is about knowing the “advantages” before anyone else does. Perfect example, all the pros never mentioned anything about “smooth aiming” for recoil control even though they clearly knew about it, everyone found out once the smallest content creators started to explain it in videos. Haha I don’t feel bad for these cry babies they’re all liars 😂 Sweet is worked up over this haha “no one else is doing this” sure bro. TSM has a lot of pro teams shook hahaha. P.S. not a TSM fanboy this is all obvious though if you’ve been playing/spectating long enough.
like i love tsm been a fan for a long time but this is just wrong data mining to get huge info shouldnt be aloud but lets just see what ea and respawn do about this.
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Hey this comment is completely unrelated to the topic of the video but I hope the person or persons posting these “clips” read this. I really enjoy the long form videos you post regarding topics like this from pro players. Thank you for posting these they’re extremely insightful
Please keep posting these full discussions/podcasts! Super nice since I can’t often see it live.
This is proof that every other team except TSM are Noob 🤣
It’s normal to sports team using data and analyze the game.
Don’t cry when you’re late to the party
b b but its not fair 😥😥😥😥
@@callmeacutekitten8106 how can you say it’s not fair when the info is PUBLIC yet maybe some team refuse to study it even they might have saw the post but chose to ignore it and only bringing this entire thing out during this period of time.
Yes! that's coaches does! this sweet and drop is stupid and dumb!!!
@@ZeRo-qx2ih i think that was satire or a mock at everyone else
well if its against the rules then your wrong
These clowns are mad they didn't think of it first.
Legit lol
raven just became the fall guy for all this data mining he just came the coach and used public information but they all watch Tik toks and sit in broken spots in zone and use whatever advantage they can use
I think people just hear the term “data mining” and it sounds like hacking to them or that people are going into servers they can’t have access to for info… when it really is just analyzing game files on YOUR OWN PC that the game installs. How can you say it’s illegal to look at files they put on your computer. If you can get info from that it’s not illegal or immoral or “competitive integrity”
agreed, free tsm
@@cooltron they are not changing the files though. Not writing a script or changing anything in game. They just reading a file.. like reading the weapon files to know all the exact details of every gun. Is it cheating to look at the files on the guns and figure out there exact stats?? Looking at information in a file and changing the file are two different things
It doesn’t matter if it’s in the files or not you know exactly how BR works YOURE not supposed to have advantages you get from data mining otherwise what’s the point. Stop trynna defend that shit you loser
@@richardslade9307 yeah and if you have to go into files then that’s cheating. It’s not on the games menu nor options in game YOURE cheating no matter what and doing it for a competition with money
@@cooltron We can fundamentally disagree but a company can’t store “their file” on MY computer and then say it can’t be looked at for what it contains. Not even a video game thing, just as a general principle of any company putting any file on your computer.
I fully agree that any altering of a file that changes anything in the game is cheating. However, looking at information that can’t be changed and simply learning from what is there is fine.
Anything that gives you an advantage that you are not meant to have whether it contributes small or big and literally gets “hacked” or “mined” to have is cheating. Don’t try down talk it because it’s your favourite team
here's the thing, Respawn cannot stop it nor they can monitor it.
It's only a matter of time before everyone will use the information.
It's just a rule to scare people out but actually do nothing.
The smart one will use it first to their advantage and all the other who's bitter will follow it as well. That's the hypocrisy.
So knowing this Sweet and what others on that call was being absolutely childish and bitter because they will use it too.
They basically just embarrassed themselves.
It's crazy how they ganged up on him in a discord call and still have a low IQ.
They literally said "you shouldn't have joined the call"...they told him to join the call and said "if he doesn't join he's guilty" lmfao.
Then sweet is coping so hard to try and explain TSM has been cheating for zones by pinning it all on raven saying "stop talking, it's my turn to talk" while they're debating him 4 on 1. 🤣
@@skybtdubz1225 not only that. They also asked Raven to share his work as a TSM analyst to the rest of them. Like it cannot be more dumb than that 😂
As if they are the one paying him or what 😂
@@footballfan5048Having raven said that what he is doing is legal, why would he shares his work for free when he makes that public data being valuable, thats what a data analyst does bruh
Hacked and mined are two different things.
So funny coming back to this. They were all so confidently wrong it’s so cringe. “It’s sketchy and against the integrity of the game” is not an argument. Also getting mad that Raven didn’t tell everyone about this is so funny lmao. Legit just brain dead.
here's the thing, Respawn cannot stop it nor they can monitor it.
It's only a matter of time before everyone will use the information.
It's just a rule to scare people out but actually do nothing.
The smart one will use it first to their advantage and all the other who's bitter will follow it as well. That's the hypocrisy.
So knowing this Sweet and what others on that call was being absolutely childish and bitter because they will use it too.
They basically just embarrassed themselves.
Brua that’s cheating stop it
@@jbigg2371 There's no way reading files available to the public is cheating
@@favournjoku7594 it wasn’t available tho smh
@@jbigg2371 It literally is. Nobody is extracting or manipulating data from EA servers. All info that Raven has is literally from the client side which is the apex legends everyone downloads. You shouldn't be listening to Apex pros who's IT skills revolve around only gaming.
1:28 lol these files are stored locally on the client side (literally just files on your computer from downloading the game). It’s not as if these were encrypted or stored on EAs server / backend. I think people are angry because they are not familiar with those differences and what data mining is.
Sweet loves to talk over everyone.
Especially Rpr
I hope he's the next to go off nrg. They need a change and he's not it anymore. Best igl in the world untill lan comes and he can't handle the pressure but can talk so much smack, be rude and inconsiderate to everyone else
Analyze: Play the game all the time, analyze the data by the amount of time you play the game. That is OK.
Data mining: Know the data instantly without putting effort into it, paying people to get data for you. As the data is in code, which is not for it means to be public. That is CHEATING.
It's like in a test, you practice the test by using the previous previous test to predict the test questions, topic etc.
And the other guy is just paying the test questions maker for an exact questions. You may not get the answers but you are confident with the data you get.
This is the conclusion I get from this topic.
I agree ☝🏾
This is stupid. It’s more like having friends who already took the class give u previous tests…. To study… this literally happens too. Any decent fraternities do this during college lmak
They still play the game 24/7 so it doesnt really matter anyway
i dont think its a coincidence that the three cringiest players in apex were grouped up in this call.
Sweet calling Shrugtal a random guy. Cringe.
@@eddoingtings after mentioning him before raven even joined. Those three are clowns.
I appreciate these long reform discussions my pro players.
Fr
Sweet is mad that his team is barely squeezing into top 10 right now.
Raven is 100% right here. You think the Browns have the same facilities and trainer quality as the Cowboys? Its just an advantage that you have to do to get ahead.
Sweet actually so braindead and salty for saying that raven cheated lmao
Who’s fault is it that they don’t know public information? They’re mad that they didn’t catch on when someone else tweeted about it? Who’s fault is it that they forgot about that while others caught on and kept asking questions. 😂They’re trying to blame him for something they don’t fully understand when the person they’re blaming knows what they’re talking about 🤣 this is like a student telling the teacher they’re teaching wrong🤦🏻♂️
People trash talking sweet like this something you should be angry about if im understanding correctly they basically used a backdoor to get information that otherwise shouldn't be possible to get
No
Wdym backdoor? It's public information. That's why Raven said get a better analyst because that info has been on twitter several months ago and if your team didn't pay attention to it, even just for curiousity's sake, then it's on you.
Source "Trust me bro" 😂😂😂
If you don't know things about technical stuff then don't even mention about backdoors and stuff when there's zero proof
Back door is definitely not the word you want to use for this situation.
All of them got the data but just a lack of resources to get them together.
Sweet knew exactly what he was doing. They were railroading Raven while not understanding how he gets the zone info. Sikez literally says Raven don't let them do this to you and Sweet removed him from the call and Dm'd him saying stop being weird.
Sweet also lied multiple times. He said who the fuck is Shrugtal and when on a rant about how he's nobody. Later he says he follows him because of zone info he posted.
when 2 cringiest clowns and a vtuber start to argue🤡
Imagine holding someone else accountable for ones own ignorance. What a joke
It's like using your notes on a test and the better grade you get the more money too
only if the test was an open note test, the information is on your computer in the files that the game installs
No it’s like seeing the wrong answers on the test leaving you with only right answers
In highschool, my teacher said that we could have a 2"x4" note card for notes to use on the test. I used Microsoft word to type up full pages of notes in size 5 font to fit on that card. Technically I wasn't cheating but it was def pushing it. This seems similar
Yeah expect you’re not playing for thousands of dollars on the line. That was a weak comparison. It would be more like you saw all the wrong answers on the test so you know what the right answers are
Imagine you had a card that told you the wrong answers
@@viceres6813 and now you have 33% chance of guessing correct
@@rywynn13 how did you even come up with that number and any % of getting an advantage by going through files is cheating
@@viceres6813 most school tests are 4 option multiple choice. Remove a wrong answer and you have 1/3 chance of guessing the right one
omg Sweet asks a question then talks over Raven...when he wants to answer RPR jumps there "ok, but my question" guys pkls, I wanna hear the answer!!!
24:45 RPR is RUTHLESS 🤣🤣🤣
It’s not the competitive rule but the game liscence…..
It is just a competitive edge to use more resources to gain more zone data which everyone can do just a matter of time
It’s just like F1 team to get better PU, brake and aerodynamic stuffs……
@mojo_radio Let's say the DAS system in mercedes back few years, those things are banned on the NEXT season but not instantly, why ? It simply saying that the FIA allowing them to go through the loophole and they had to stop them because it generates huge advantages. Same circumstance to Apex, apex didn't say anything about the datamine because there are no rules on the competitive side regarding datamining. It is funny that even for current state it is still doable and you still complaining.
@@Mojo_Radio I dont think you get my point, F1 doesn't agree with you. They simply set new rules regarding DAS the next year. So if datamining really that big of a deal, respawn would have did the same and set out rules. Which apparently they didn't. I think that explain all.
Also, i dont know what your game knowledge is, but datamining doesn't mean they 100% get to know what the zone is. It is just more likely to end there, keep that in mind nothing is certain in a BR game.
@@Mojo_Radio only a clown wouldn't understand my answer multiple times
@@Mojo_Radio Competitive gaming is always about preparation. Take CS as the example. They study maps, playstyle, ultility usage, tactics. Right, Zone studying in apex is just another type of preparing. OF COURSE it is fair or else Apex would have set rules against it by now.
@@Mojo_Radio all things aside, can you explain if that’s such an edge why is it still allowed by now? Just because it’s not that advantageous.
They are only mad because “they didn’t know” shit is hilarious!!
they really ganged up on him on stream instead of being pros and having a real talk off stream
They are a bunch of 19-year-olds, with super huge egos, because they happen to be really good at a video game. You shouldn't expect much from these guys lol.
To be anywhere in the apex sphere and say you have never heard of shrugtal is a crazy outlandish claim.
Looking back at this it's funny to see sweet complain so much. I guess choking multiple times at lan will give you a bitter taste in your mouth
They sound salty 😂😂😂
Raven’s counter argument with stating data mining for frame data and hit boxes on fighting games was good.
This just shows how much TSM actually takes their job seriously. NRG is always 2nd best because, and even sweet called out of a few of his teammates in the past about is a pack passion and work ethic. TSM plays like they can lose their jobs tomorrow if they don't keep winning, and they are willing to do anything to keep winning.
Dropped doesn't know what a moral high ground is
Lol it’s funny coming back to this after TSM won Year 3. Turns out it’s not illegal and Sweet & Dropped were just both ignorant and wrong😂
This is fucking insane Melee thrived for so long where people kept tech to themselves yet in this game it's not okay??? Wow put some work into the game
Teams on top doing their homework and other teams complaining about it. It's kinda sad. There is nothing wrong about what they did.
It’s against ea rules to data mine the game. Ea has gotten players banned and also took channels down because of it.
@@OMGitsHypo It is if you are doing it yourself but using someone's data mined work isn't. That is called a gray area and in terms those are called loopholes and people will use them to their advantage.
I just see a bunch of gorillas mad and ganging up on him because he found an easier way to get bananas, he should've never put himself in this call lol. If a large group of people are stupid and wrong and 1 guy is right, it's IMPOSSIBLE to be right in that setting lol
more like nrg salty
Im late and have stopped playing. But even my bot self saw the tweet about the zones 😂
Not 100% sure who's right or wrong and I understand what Sweet and his band are saying but honestly if I was Raven I wouldn't give a F what they think, whether they think it's sketchy or not, or if he should've shared the info publicly and just wait for EA/Respawn to make it clear on the rules about that
So glad this was on stream. Sweet and RPR, not a good look.
Sweet is so corny in this situation man just wants the world of apex to revolve around him again
Idk man at work we have a research and development department to have a longer shelf life on our product. Millions is invested to this department. We have some of the long lasting products before it dies. With that being said. Shall the market have a limited for this types of research?i know you cant compare this to a battle royale game. But i kinda understand stand pov of raven. However once everyone finds its always hectic
please dont compare gaming to to an actual business practice. With this argument isnt aimbotting just operating at the most efficient consistency? Not to mention most teams arent backed by ponzi schemes
@sami momin
aimbotting are different, it’s same as doping in Sports.
You can’t compare Analyze the data to something like aimbotting lol
@@welowee7610 paying for information that an employee of respawn doesnt believe should be a purchasable advantage is not the same as doping or cheating okay right. How about they actually analyze the game by watching GAMEPLAY and playing the game LOL instead they do some slimey shit like this.
NRG Sweet is a Crybaby like bruh you have the cheat sheet now. Or play mad games to do your own cheat sheet
This is funny. Oh man sweet got Sven now though
Kinda tangential but Respawn should publish the exclusion zones. Like, ppl (myself for 1) want to study the game and get as good as possible, why not publish as much info as possible.
Nah I don’t think respawn should even publish the zones, like me back when season 11 or 12 I’ve been grinding rank for like 12 hrs per day and slowly I to recognise where the zone will likely to close/end.
@@ZeRo-qx2ih and there is information out there that you can study and read on to help you cut those hours. It is like instead of finding a "new" technique but there is information out there 3 months ago showing you how to better that technique.
Sweet is a soreloser when he dies its cause controller there will always be a reason
ALSO TO ADD, TSM going on to win yet another Lan makes this video even better LOL NRG who?????
sweet is salty i thought hes smart this makes him dump and raven is right why should he shear
Sweet dropped are the feds fr
9 months later TSM wins year 3 😂😂😂
Bro sweet is so cringe
Sweet sounds like such a big baby, just mad because he can’t win an ALGS
How are people actually mad about this? Creating drama out of nothing. I’ve looked up zone information on this game like 2 years ago. All it takes is an internet connection
40 mins I was caught off guard lol, bro vids usually not this long
and what was TSM supposed to do, close their eyes and pretend that they didnt see? its not like they datamined it themselves, it was out there if you are not using it, you are not preparing your team for ALGS best to your abilities. This is info you can get by playing the game a lot a lot and seing where zones go, or watching others play.
The bottom line is that its up to EA and apex gods to decide.
If a teacher doesnt hide a map when you are writing georgraphy test....are you not going to look? everyone else is looking why it should be just you who will fail? And if you are good and studied you dont need it, but dont cry after that you didnt look and everyone scored little better. Is all this 100% correct?...NO, well whoopsie doo, thats life for ya. It aint fair, there is bunch of bugs in the game, that cause teams to lose, the game isnt without a problem and for all the other teams- the map is out there use it!
sweet may be a good apex player but hes so cringy. I cant stand hearing him talk sometimes
21:35 I was able to call zones on SP and WE after 500 hours in the game. Pay close attention, and you begin to build a mental map. The idea that it takes thousands of hours is ridiculous
Bro are these guys dense. The reason raven didnt tell anyone before it got exposed is because its a fair competitive advantage so why would a team share their competitive secrets to other pro teams. But now that it is common knowledge, Raven is saying it should be available to everyone because it SHOULD be but that doesnt mean he is gonna be the guy to tell everyone when they can go find out themselves if they want.
100% agree with sweet.. Raven was basically in my opinion a hairs width away from lying by proxy..
People saying that "every pro team in every game datamines and analyzes LUL" most BRs have RNG and not pre-determined zones to notify the "scan" characters where zones end. 100% its like a secret that no one talks about until now. I never saw a single thing about this on any form of social media or talked about by any pro player. People have datamined openly in other games for s, hitboxes, damage, etc, but not something like this. It's literally broken. Any seasoned BR player would think its BS. These pros play apex all day and have access to group chats, discords and teamspeaks you will never know about where they all talk to each other but havent said anything about this up until recently. It isn't part of the game. That being said this game is garbage. :D
LOL.. What do you mean you didn't see this in any form on social media? Bro it's on Twitter.🤣🤣🤣
@@BobAzarcon That guy was writing an essay only to be missing that it's on Twitter the whole time 😂
@@BobAzarcon most people that have grown out of their diapers and are successful adults dont have or spend much time on Twitter you degenerate.
people good at playing fps games aren't always the brightest in logic problem solving and discussing the validity of an argument
Running in circles for 40 minutes of salty bullying without even taking the time laying the foundation of correct terminology and meaning of words used as ground floor of the argument
L M F A O
Raven isn't someone who should've been arguing for his point, he is not good at that. Sweet kept putting words in his mouth, which Raven didn't even say, & Raven kept taking it. It was a literal Trap, & he fell hook line & sinker.
I get both side of the point, but it was an argument in "bad faith", malicious even, when you understand what the opponent is saying, but still keep maliciously dunking on them cause they are bad at getting their point across.
i had respect for Sweet before, was my top 2 fav Apex streamer. Thought he was a good dude, witty sarcastic with flaws but good dude deep down. He let me & probably a lot of people down. That's how parasocial relationships are i guess, u never know till they are at their worst. & This probably ain't even close to the worst.
Yeah Sweet as a person is actually borderline psychotic and 100% is manipulative and probably abusive in nature whether its physical or verbal. He actually shouldn't have a platform because of how his personality traits are.... actually would beat the shit out of him, he one the few that needs a physical reminder to be a respectful and decent human being.
Shrugtal is getting smoked fir leaking skins now hahaha
So pretty much you are either gunna cheat to get an advantage or do some shady shit to get an advantage. Stand up org TSM seems to be. Especially after partnering with FTX. If TSM knows how to run a business, this Raven guy will be fired immediately.
Bruh, no way you mad at TSM for partnering up with FTX when it's very common for gaming orgs to partner up with crypto goons.
why is sweet talking about backend? to sound smart? because all the apis work like that if they are public. lol
Whats that game
I don't get this at all. This information is free to the public , but other people( teams) and baby sweet can't stop crying about it. God, I hate how much this kid cries when he's getting shit on. Guy has shit the bed in lan for over a year, yet is still considered to be one of the best igls. Just because you can't do some dudiligence and research for you're Team doesn't mean it's cheating. It's been free to the public, it's been out there for forever just like movement techs that have been in the God damn game since day one. Just because it was undiscovered doesn't mean you need to tell the rest of the community to have an advantage at the game. It's access to the map that everyone could have had anyways with some real research. I remember when the shrugtall thing was around with tufi the cheater. It's been around since season 3 and yes has thousands and thousands of likes. It's not data mining , it's using public info to secure spots in a game that plays out many ways
Lazy pros that wanted raven to do their job for them. You want it? Hire him
31:17 love how literally over half this comment section is literally this 💀💀
Yeah okay, according to hal's logik, a cheater is just gate keeping the info about him, using a soft tuned aimbot, or that he has walls, lol. Okay dude, good one.
Simulating months of gameplay, to see where the zones are NOT ending, with an effing program, after every update, is cheating.
And i don't care if the info is public NOW, now that this came out. They surely do that stuff way longer than that.
Also i don't care, if the ALGS rulebook is not up to date, because they didn't even think of stuff like that yet.
It's against EA's license of agreement, and EVERYONE is playing the game under that, ALSO the comp scene.
So it does not matter what the ALGS rulebook says, when it comes to what EA will say about that.
They will probably get away with it, regarding ALGS, because it is not in the rulebook, okay.
But EA should ban at least all their accounts, that played in ALGS.
For me , they've lost all the respect, from a player's perspective.
Also, what else are they willing to do to get an advantage, that is not in the ALGS rulebook yet huh. Come on man.
Doping in the tour de france, also almost every team is doing, but hal will probably defend it, because as he said,
come on, it is competitive, did you think cycling is the only thing you have to worry about, really ?
Yeah, hal, it is still cheating. It does not matter if everyone is doing it.
You will not normalize cheating dude. None of y'all.
Also tsm raven said, that data mining thing is just the tip of the iceberg.
imperial yell telling every other team to tryhard more in scrims, after winning the ALGS, what a JOKE dude.
Imagine acting like someone, who learned the end zones by playing the game a lot, lol.
I’ll always love Sweet
its funny their mad if it was ageints the rules then respawn n EA will take action if need e, i understands the compness bc their pro players, but its comp get any adv u can get. sad lol......
Sound like bunch cry babies to me every pro team in every sports try to find a Advantage against every team they play against it’s called watching videos and studying against the Defense whatever if your team not doing your home work. Sound like a bunch of haters to me. Someone explain to me how is this made TSM better Or won a bunch of tournaments because of it.
Sweet…. brother
Everyone getting mad but people try to have a competitive “advantage” over anything that involves winning money, prizes, etc. who gives a fuck lmao. To me TSM going to the lengths to get zones that were data mined is showing they are willing to do what it takes to win, besides why is this so bad when there are actual “pros” who blatantly cheat using soft aim hacks, and wall hacks lol wtf. Just know Apex is a game that is about knowing the “advantages” before anyone else does. Perfect example, all the pros never mentioned anything about “smooth aiming” for recoil control even though they clearly knew about it, everyone found out once the smallest content creators started to explain it in videos. Haha I don’t feel bad for these cry babies they’re all liars 😂 Sweet is worked up over this haha “no one else is doing this” sure bro. TSM has a lot of pro teams shook hahaha.
P.S. not a TSM fanboy this is all obvious though if you’ve been playing/spectating long enough.
like i love tsm been a fan for a long time but this is just wrong data mining to get huge info shouldnt be aloud but lets just see what ea and respawn do about this.
FiRs
T
Were tsm members aware of
This whole situation is all fucked up, but as always #1 IGL @sweetdreams is right, and using his big fucking brain.
Sweet just needs to get good 😂😂
you must be honored to lick his toes huh? Must be, to say some bs like this lmao.
tell me u ride sweets meat without telling me u ride sweets meat