View and share the bot document here: drive.google.com/file/d/1goBP5DVr0we85Ohnc7IHukOtTS-uISEa/view?usp=sharing Visit and share save.tf/ to sign the petition and spread resources regarding the bot crisis
Its insane to see how much effort some people put into trying to kill a really old game, and then try to play it cool, But they just end up looking super pathetic
Some of these guys also use the excuse of "I'm letting the devs know how ez it is to hack and trash the game" while failing to realize that it's encouraging Valve even more to shut the game down (lower player count = lower revenue = less reason to keep the game up).
it's honestly so sad this is so common, like the police just turning up asking about the bomb threat then the person says "yeah i've been getting harrassed online" officers just sigh and get wrapped up in videogame and social media drama they frankly don't have time for.
@@Irish_Enderman a lot of things are crimes and most countries don't have a militerised police force so for those pther nations enforcement goes to loose to non existent. hell in the uk the police won't do shit if you get robbed, they'll raid drug trafficing but you won't see them turn up to your house even if your garden reaks of skunk.
The bot hosters are exactly the kind of people you'd expect them to be. Hipocrite and immature, with no spine or accountability, short tempered and with no purpose in their life, resorting to making others miserable for their own short-sighted goals. And Valve is the negligent parent that has let it get to this point.
I was 14 years old when TF2 botters doxed me for trying to reason with them on one of their subreddits. They attempted to blackmail me and have me send a photo where I hold up a sign promoting a terrorist organization (Forgot which one. Presumably so they could send it to my school or my parents and get me into some sort of trouble). They threatened that if I did NOT do this, they would hack my computer and mess with the things on their. I don't know exactly what they wanted to do, but considering their track record they probably just wanted to take control of my social medias and make me say racial slurs or something like that. For some reason they referred to me as "Miranda". No damn clue where that name comes from, that isn't my real name or anything like my previous internet usernames. I ended up just not using my computer for a week, made a new reddit account and sure enough they forgot about me. To this day I still use that same steam account they found when they doxed me lol. So much for the "We'll hack you if you dont send us this photo!" lmao. It was foolish of me for trying to reason with them, but it was even more foolish for grown adults to attempt to blackmail a middle schooler. I'm 16 now, I've just given up hope for TF2 and have moved on to other things. Just saw this video in my recommended and got reminded of this whole story.
I'm normally an optimistic guy but I don't think this movement will go anywhere. Valve is banking off of steam and has no reason to care for a 17 year old video game, no matter how much people complain, they won't care. If complaining worked on valve, half life 3 would've been released years ago. In general the amount of time and effort going into these movements is kind of a waste of our time in my opinion, it is just a video game at the end of the day, and being sad and angry about video games for hours at a time isn't a good way to spend your time (trust me, I would know, lol.) There are more video games out there, and there are more pass times. It's difficult to give up on the things you love, but sometimes you just need to do it.
@@proxboxgamer69 I'm not sure. I don't know much about blizzard as a company nor anything about warcraft. Maybe it's possible, but these TF2 movements have been going on for years and so far all they managed to receive is bandaid solutions.
@Dacstunes probably because the previous movement was unorganised and planned out poorly, that may be why we only received such small, ineffective solutions. Plus, didn't we stop the protesting when they made that tweet? We should've kept pushing.
Honestly I’m a Vavle hater after this video At this point blizzard with Overwatch are better entities then Vavle At least they don’t intentionally put their supporters into harms way
a troll is not a bot hoster. A troll is someone who commits harmless actions against another, like playing to their weaknesses to make them personally upset. It's the internet, getting upset over the internet is inherently pathetic. A bot hoster is actively causing financial harm to an industry. Trolls and bot hosters are not the same.
Man I hate seeing the art of trolling get tainted by nasty ass people (Exaggerating that art part. But come on, admit that some micspam stories are in a league of their own)
I used to love trolling little kids in gta it was hilarious, but now i hear about “trolls” swatting people and stuff and wonder if they ever go outside.
3rd party viewers like yourself "man im so pissed that these guys ruined the market! they get money, i cant afford hats!!! WTF! wait, nobody will care about that. let me act outraged by them trolling other people! thatll do it!!!!"
Megascatterbomb is a legend, having so many skids direct hate his way is a testament to how well he got under their skin and how much he’s done to fight back. Im so glad you got him to comment on this video, hoping the hosters get put to justice soon.
He's supposedly putting people he doesn't like in the database, even if they're not cheaters. I don't know how true this is, but I've heard it somewhere.
@@JackChung-wo3ky yes, their lives are that empty. so they get enjoyment from harassing everyone else who isn't like them, who isn't willing to lash out at the "normies"
@CSGOCOMPILER brother I haven't touched TF2 in a while and bots have never been an inconvenience to me. There's no happy person on this planet that enjoys ruining things for others so yes I would assume they have a miserable life
@CSGOCOMPILER Not really, someone dedicated enough could infiltrate their circles, find the hosters and pay em a visit. Whatever happens after is not my problem.
@@AB0BA_69 bro I don't think he means it like that, as in atrocity he means like its arteriosus that this has happened at all. A company is letting a ton of hackers and doxxers run wild and instead of doing something said company just doesn't care. Like he's basically saying its horrible this has happened, just with stronger wording because it is genuinely awful this had been allowed to continue.
@@commandercody1210 This situation is a bunch of NERDS getting bullied by a smaller bunch of TURBO NERDS. Valve ignoring this stupid mess (which is limited to ONLY pub servers) is not a violation of the Geneva Conventions and the sooner these people realize that the healthier their lives are going to be.
@@AB0BA_69 people's actual addresses are being leaked left and right because of this mess and you're saying it's not a big problem? Just because it happens often doesn't mean it should be seen as normal
27:13 I don't think they would pay for accounts. If you ask me, it's more likely that they're *stolen accounts,* which is infinitely worse. Like, imagine you fall for one of those fake pop up browser scams and you lose your entire account to a basement dwelling scumbag that uses it for hate speech.
actually considering valves competence in security i dont think they even have to dupe you, there is probs a crack in the code that just gives away accounts
At the same time however, you are able to buy items directly off the Mann Co. store for less than a singular USD which will still count towards making your account a premium one; selling afew crates you get daily from said accounts is just enough to buy them and gain access; Although it's always possible that the hosts also just bruit force the patch and gain access to it regardless. It's still a possibility that stolen accounts are also involved; nothing moral is stopping these degenerates from doing anything and everything to make everyone else suffer.
Holy shit I live in New Zealand and I remember hearing news about a school/university being evacuated due to a bomb threat, can’t believe it stemmed from tf2 of all things, especially since I’m an active tf2 player.
My yearly check-up to see how TF2 is doing be like; Still infested with bots, Volvo still not doing anything about it. Understandable, have a nice day. Also, jesus christ, how bored do you have to be to host these bots for 5 years straight...
well, its their “job”. they all have inventories worth thousands of dollars, likely earned purely from people who buy bot immunity. they’re also not scared to cheat on their main accounts. met 6 of em in one game a while back - deltatronic’s owner, some skiddo youtuber with
"we shouldn't stoop to their level" is not the way that this kind of problem can be solved, these losers won't stop unless actual action is took against them, history has proved this many times.
i think so too but i dont think its that he doesnt think we should stoop down to their level. i think its just that this could be wayyy easier taken down by false reports from the bothosters if he promoted bullying them
Sounded like the guy who was talking about not stooping down to their level was afraid of them doing something to him and that's the only reason he said it
@@Meilk27 if he said to stoop down to their level or didnt say not to it would be trivial for the bothosters to get the video taken down Also them possibly doing something to him is a perfectly reasonable excuse. Thats fair of him
Dude i am so relived someone is finally talking about it, i was so shocked when a bot said to go to some discord server to get bot immunity These guys are honestly pathetic losers, the only power of any kind they have is sending bots to the funny ragdoll game to make a miniscule amount of money, then they abuse this for committing felonies, all this only exists due to valves negligence #FixTF2 #SaveTF2
OK so some youtuber is botting these 2 guys to comment under all the comments, you can see the videos through their profile, idke why he's doing this or what he's trying to accomplish
@@EMan-xj5cz almost never, probably. If I had to guess, I’d say their true purpose is to mainly to irritate, making the comment section unpleasant to use, thus discouraging using it and stunting potential conversation as a result, plus drowning out real people. That _might_ be giving them too much “credit”, though.
I can only imagine how down bad you have to be to bot a 15 year old game and commit multiple felonies because someone called you a "sad botter". Can you imagine these botters finally getting a life, getting married, having kids and a successful job, but suddenly an FBI agent carts them off 5-20 years after their last botting attempt so they can face several counts of tampering with network devices, spreading malware/malicious files etc. and getting sentanced to upwards of 40 years (charges/counts depending)... Imagine potentially ruining your life for a laugh on TF fucking 2....
The reality is, Valve doesn't need to ban the bots, Valve needs to send law enforcement after the bot hosters and hold them directly accountable for their actions with legitimate consequences. Many of these hosters deserve prison time as this behavior is malicious and destructive.
The problem is that they are limited to the US when it comes to sue them. If they live outside those borders, then their hands are pretty much tied behind their backs.
@@Gaming.Gamer. The US has agreements about such things with well over 200 countries on earth. Even with Russia and China @saiv46 you funny guy. At the very least they could make sure these people could never travel again outside their non-extradition country, because what they did is actually a crime in most countries. Valve just doesnt care. PS; Funny detail, the US is one of the few countries that does not extradite its own citizens
unironically, it's funny how Nintendo can treath you to take out of the steam workshop a fan made map of a dead child ,and valve not doing shit for the bot problems not only accuring in tf2 but csgo as well, not only ruining the game itself but treathning people as well.
Honestly this is the story that #FixTF2 and #SaveTF2 SHOULD be leading with, I'm sure many people who have been following the bot problem aren't even aware that things have gotten this bad, to the point that bot hosters are targeting individuals, impersonating them, making death threats, bomb threats, and generally trying to ruin people's lives for speaking out. We can leave aside the "we love TF2 wholesome chungus" stuff for when these issues have been sorted, we need people to know this is not just about fixing a video game, and that Valve have effectively allowed and profited from illegal activity that have targeted innocent people. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. It is now time for us to do the same.
reminds me of something ZestyJesus said about the last #saveTF2 and how we need to pretty much rub Valve's nose in the problem like we're punishing a dog. It sucks it has to come to this, but I'll be damned if it isn't necessary.
@@Sleepy_CabbageI’d pay good money to see them start up a fuss with DSP detractors or any community that’ll clap back twice as hard. They’ll learn very, very quickly to understand how their victims feel firsthand.
When I first heard the A.I voices somewhere in a casual match similar to the one in 16:05. I thought it sounded hilarious, but now when it's revealed it was meant to shame megascatterbomb and punish him for no reason, I'm disgusted.
@@WallaWaller I appreciate his effort but I doubt an OPEN SOURCE project will last long or be effective. At least with what I know about his project so far, I may be out of the loop by now
the bot makers are probably not trying to find workarounds for plugins that community servers use, if valve implemented it in their own servers where all the bot traffic is, i'm sure the bot makers would find ways around it like any other anti-cheat that seemingly works great at first and then the cheat is recreated again to mask it in a way that cant be detected valve's even made a few updates where afterwards the bots were broken and nowhere to be seen but then they were back after a day
@@gratianray2 Oh I'm certain they would but the point is to make it annoying enough that the bulk of them stop trying cuz it's irritating to keep recoding every few weeks. Cuz if Valve intentionally broke the bots that's probably how long it would take to fix them
@@me67galaxylife Ah yes, let us just cede casual, the place where all new players will go, to bots and make it incredibly difficult to get new fans. Great plan
>Yikes! It's just like in my heckin' marvel movie! avengers assemble to save tf2! the power of friendship will defeat the voldemort or however the bots are being hosted! this will definitely work!
considering the main cathook github is down, wouldn't it be funny if somebody started passing around a modified version that maybe perhaps has some other fun stuff hidden inside it? maybe a goofy little keylogger or something, iunno :3
One would not be surprised to find some code obfuscation inside a cheat program. It wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to add something that enables, say, remote code execution, or encrypted calls to the Google geoloc API
Also given that vavle thinking doing more security measures is a trendmill problem and how even counter striker is dealing with bots, I am worry that bot hoster can move over deadlock, ruin games and vavle being slow on it. seriously I can see that happening
The fact that we live in times where trash like that can litteraly impersonate your voice or generally photoshop you into oblivion is scary stuff imagine the future when you'll litteraly have no proof over something you never said or did, its scary to think about
Dont post pictures of yourself on the internet. Social media is a trap and its bad for mental health anyway. Strictly anonymous internet use is the only way to go.
Nah I think we should absolutely stoop to their level. These people need to be outed, shamed and publicly exposed. They are actively ruining a giant game and harassing people, Mr. Nice Guy wont do anything
While you're at it might as well search their hard drives. People who do this kind of degenerate behavior always have some weird shit or someone's personal info for God knows what reasons there. That is if someone ends up having a reason to investigate them in a legal way.
bot hosters are just sad children in adult's bodies. They're gamer rage personified, and their parents probably failed to raise them to the point where they don't even realize what they're doing is wrong, or even know it's wrong but do it anyway for kicks. Genuinely the saddest I've been for someone I will never know.
Meanwhile they seem to be making more money just letting a virtual machine idle 24/7 and you spent your time eulogizing their success. Reality is they are literally winning, and you're just offering a boomerism! As if the moral victory of pseudo-profound-feel-goods are the real aspirational goal!
Zesty Jesus is also a vital individual who gave the TF2 community the necessary reality check they desperately needed. It isn't just the cheater bots but its also the idler and trader bots that artificially inflate the player count you see on Steam so he can't be removed from the equation as the bot hosters are angry at him as well because he exposed how truly bad the bot crisis has gotten.
@@King_Jockey At least he brought much more awareness to this problem that many other prominent people in the TF2 community didn't despite some people trying too but they were either ignored or dismissed out right.
@@jasonallen6918 his, for lack of a better word, "douchey" but realistic attitude is what gets him heat in the community and also what gets people to hear out what he says he doesn't sugarcout his topics and be gentle with what he says, he rips the band aid off and it "hurts" people because they know that he's right most of the time what people hate him for is exactly what I like about him
He has been best in pointing out 3 major things and highly bringing them out to all tf2 public ---- --- NERF SNIPER ---- CONSERVE AND PROTECT TF2's BEAUTIFUL CARTOONY ARTSTYLE AND GRAPHICS --- MAJOR AMOUNT OF CHEATER AND IDLE TRADING BOTS
@@King_Jockey He does get really angry when talking about a few things though, especially the Short Circuit. He said it was more broken than the Wrangler on his engineer tier list video, and I don’t understand how somebody could reach that conclusion
"in an attempt to stop the bots from spreading raclst messages in text and voice chat, Valve restricted the ability for non-payment accounts to communicate." That wasn't an attempt to stop bots from spreading raclst messages, that was an attempt to get more money out of free players.
that was such a terrible change, it didnt solve the problem and only made the game worse. all restricting chat for f2ps did was drive away new players and kill the game even more
no it wasnt they have very little reason to squeeze more money in tf2 thats just dumb. it was a shitty and lazy attempt to “fix it”. it was more or less a way to make us shut up about tf2.
@@headshot531 Bruh. You really think a corporation won't try to maximize profits even by the slightest amounts when there’s no cost to them? If so, you don't know how corporations work.
It's incredible how if this was any other company, adding more things to spend money on in their game while it's official servers are quite literally unplayable, they would be ridiculed to hell. But it's valve, so people are just weirdly dismissive about Valve's inaction.
Valve is gaming industry's manifestation of the sin of Sloth, and as far as sinful gaming companies go - that is just the least offensive one. Very much "the lesser poison" situation. It got its drawbacks, but on another hand it could be way worse like pushing various nonsense and censoring "outdated" and "problematic" content and what not. My personal relationship with Valve is like Swanson from The Office: "we still don't talk sometimes".
Tbf, that seems to be, like, most of the internet for some reason? I was only active on twitter for like 6 months 2 years ago but I saw a really concerning amount of drama related to that kinda stuff, and while it wasnt the main reason I stopped using it, it was definitely one of them. Even on Discord which I do still use daily, *most* of the servers I've ever been on have had at least 1 drama involving accusations of that (of which only a couple actually had any kind of evidence) and it just gets so tiring Its gotten to the point that I've been so desensitized to it that I just cant help but roll my eyes now any time I see accusations like that online, which I *know* is a bad thing caus it *is* a serious issue that shouldnt be taken lightly...
@@Darumaster they dont want to even touch the code of tf2. however i assume we can have the steam team develop bot detection systems on *their* end, to help with the bot problem through that method
2:40 the thought that stooping to the level of evil people makes you worse than them is propaganda made by people who want good people to ignore their misdeeds. It’s bullshit. Reply to evil actions with extreme prejudice or live as a slave to ruthless people.
This is the single truth of this world that the Establishment is desperate to keep obfuscated. That you do stoop to that level, and you do use violence.
L4D2 is also plagued with cheaters and humiliating scumbags. It’s not a bot issue, and the DDoss problems actually get addressed but Valve games are just too easy to exploit and abuse. You mention the “treadmill” and they’ve been running on it for the last year with L4D2’s security. Just look at the patch history. Them deciding to work on a new game like “Deadlock” instead of addressing their problems head on is not a good look. Public reaction to that games reveal might be a wake up call… or they might double down on their arrogance, who knows?
@@JoeJoseph-zb1zo I said they’re easy to exploit because the official Valve servers have been getting ddossed for a long time now. They fix it and it comes back like a revolving door. At least they seem to be trying, but it’s not good enough. People report vulnerabilities to Valve on a platform called “HackerOne”. They offer a lot of money to hackers in exchange of security benefits. Lots of issues regarding L4D2 and TF2 can be resolved using HackerOne reports, but Valves main concern with HackerOne is ensuring the best for the Steam client. Game vulnerabilities seem like a secondary concern to them. And of course, Valves anti cheat is useless. Installing an undetectable cheat menu isn’t hard
I can’t believe a group of assholes on the internet made a false bomb threat and had police show up to an innocent man’s door all because he spoke out against them. That is an actual felony offense in most parts of the world. #FixTF2
Personally I sent an e-mail to Gabe's Valve contact address linking to this video and the Google Document, pleading for Valve to take action. I doubt it'll do much but here's hope.
The boycotting microtransactions should go double for youtubers planning on doing "unboxing 100 cases" videos. They shouldnt get harrassment if they do make those videos this summer but, itd be really helpful if they simply didn't make those right when the update drops. That'd be great :/
not sure unboxers buy keys from the game but from other websites to not give money to valve and also its cheaper, nothing wrong with wanting the stuff from the cases, theres just a workaround
This video NEEDS to be shared like crazy on June 3rd, this truly puts this entire situation into perspective and is a hard reality check. Thanks for making it.
I knew how obnoxious and persistent the hosters were, but I didn't realize how far they've taken this until now. I've been waiting a few days at this point to verify my email on the petition, but once I get the email, you can bet my name will be there.
LAMO EVEN! Dude. Petitions do literally nothing. Especially some email petition. Unless you can reasonably pose a threat to the physical security of the party you are "petitioning" nothing will ever come of it. I don't care if you got 5 billion signatures. No potential for physical reaction? Might as well be lining a bird cage.
holy i didnt realise it was that bad i started playing quite recently. stay safe man thank you for realising this info to the public id never have the confidence to do it. i have nothing but respect for you
It’s a testament to how good the game is that it hasn’t just died from the bot crisis. It’s insane how neglectful valve is to a player base that dedicated. It’s their obligation to fix this even if they don’t want to because it’s a product they actively sell
see, thats where your wrong. it has died. very few people are playing, and the numbers are dwindling. I used to spend hours and hours every day playing tf2, and now i haven't touched the game in about a month, and everytime I boot it up, it's just not that fun with all these bots. and there is no influx of new players, as very will download the game considering it is so old and many are deterred from that, and then the few that do will just see that the game is in shambles and never play again. the few that still play to this day are the die hard tf2 veterans, and the newbies that weren't exposed to bots right away.
It's also a testament to how important it is to let the community host their own servers. Games allowing dedicated servers is a lost art these days, leading to them dying easily as soon as bad actors flood servers, or they get shut down by the company owning it.
@@cheesechess-tr7pd yes, that is true. but do you know what the numbers read in total? 77k as of writing this comment. if 15k humans are playing at a time, which is actually true as proven by zesty jesus, that means that 62k out of the 77k players are BOTS. THERE ARE MORE BOTS THAN THERE ARE HUMAN PLAYERS. that is the reason why this entire campaign has booted back up, its because zesty jesus proved that tf2 is one of the most heavily botted games on steam. and really, compared to other valve games like dota and cs2 which consistently hit 1 million concurrent players, 15k people are really not that much at all.
people haven't seemed to watched zesty jesus latest video. watch it. it provides important insight into the whole campaign and shocking facts. not giving any spoilers, but lets just say that he proves there are more bots in tf2 than humans.
Any time I think about hopping back on TF2, I see stuff like this. The fact these hosts are doing things like swatting just so they can keep their bots going is absurd. And those message pics of them using the N-Word over and over...some people never seem to mentally age out of middle school.
And their feelings get so violently hurt for being called idiotic they hurl insults instead of having any level of rationality. All their online efforts are dedicated *_solely_* to being emotional (angry and spireful) to fester off the reactions
@@ghoulbuster1 I do think there's an easy way. By law, Discord is required to hand over data to the federal government for use in investigations. We simply ask for a control point hint hint. Maybe some leaked military documents too~
Huh, those guys are spamming the comment section. As I'll say, they're just UTTP, ignore them, since it's most likely they're unaffiliated with Bot Hosters.
Thank you for this vid. I just tried to play TF2 with my boyfriend and we had to quit due to the bots and I had no idea what was going on so this helped me understand
Bot hoster trying to sound better: "i swatted multiple people, ran a virtual crime mob and ddossed my opposition" Prisoner 3: "you're a bot hoster aren't you" Bot hoster: "yeah.."
.....yea they're definitely desperate for 13 year old youtube commenters to come cry about a 17 year old dead game. If they had any actual skills at anything worthwhile they wouldn't be crying about literally nothing
The fact that megascatterbomb had children trying to defame him, these guys have nothing better to do :/ Disappoints me that this is the world we live in
The stupid logic of "not stooping to their leve" is the reason they still have the foothold they have. Valve at this point seems to actively refuse to deal with the issue. So we are just supposed to put up with it because "take the higher ground"? What is the point.
Yeah, I agree. Some people in this community even know WHO the bot makers are. But, oh, they won't say who because they want to "protect them". Well, you know what they say. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." And if that prize is a little too much for you to handle.... Then please, don't play the game.
Instead of just stooping to their level, we set the conditions for hosters to hoist their own petards. We can fight dirty, and we can fight with grace A tiny hint: The tf2 client trusts server downloads in their entirety.
Its disgusting and morally wrong to me that some stupid basement kids ruin a 17 year old game for 5 years straight just because they want some attention they didnt get as a child
fair but they got a fairly obvious discord where they leak personal billing info, if you can use that to track the funds you can easily capture them (hypothetical method for the feds, not me)
I do hope Valve understands the lack of any effort to solve this issue only allows the bot-hosters to feel more comfortable and thus they'll feel more confident in bolder, more insane and elaborate ways to bring harm, be it physically; mentally, emotionally or virtually; to the community. I would not be surprised if they go as far as going after Valve in future, I mean, it's not Valve cares right? I of course dont want it to come to that. But it's sad to think that that might be the only way Valve achknowledges the issue. It's embarrasing for Valve.
i remember when you had around 40k, you’ve come a long way :) Sent an email to Penguinz0 about this linking the video and the doc and more info, because why not
A couple days ago I witnessed a bot spamming somebody’s IP address. That shit is crazy. Edit: I’m like 99% sure most of these comments are just bots lol
While I don't agree with the idea that someone who doxxes a bot hoster is no better than them, everything else about the video is the kind of thing more people need to be aware of, so thank you for making it and spreading the word.
THIS is the level of severity we always needed savetf2 to be treated with. THIS is a good start, lets hope what you guys have in store will REALLY rip valve a new one
I was initially more positive about matchmaking than most were, but in hindsight, Quickplay was an absolute marvel of a feature- the fact that they were able to officially sanction and run easily accessible community-hosted and community-moderated servers is genuinely something that in the landscape of modern day matchmaking-based shooters would and should be groundbreaking, and instead, they took it the only time ever that they needed to do what everyone _else_ was doing. You're telling me you had the ability to reduce hosting AND moderation costs, improve the accessibility and user experience of server browser-based matchmaking which games like the original two or three Halo games proved could be INCREDIBLY successful, and still provide a baseline, mostly vanilla experience that was entirely within your control, something any developer with any integrity should have been CLAMORING for, and you THREW IT AWAY?
If names are out there and there's proof, I can't understand why Valve's not spamming the lawsuit button on them. They don't even have to address the issue on the code level, just let their lawyers loose.
@CSGOCOMPILERactually, the potential damages that could be argued would be in the tens-hundreds of thousands per target Literal millions could be squeezed out of this
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” is a quote that we can use for this entire video. If we ignore the cheaters, let the game die for a certain amount of time, they, themselves, shall feel bad, down the gutter, even if they feel happy that its dead then. God may forgive them, but I wont.
I saw a youtuber named 'Zesty Jesus' explain how most of TF2's player base is made up of just bots (estimated around 70%). Putting that together with how Valve is most likely making money from these bots, who are spending money for the sake of spamming all kinds of awful crap, makes this a terrifying situation.
TheWhatShow I found myself on a Bot Hoster community server after the bot takedown from Valve, it’s like they’re going in hiding since they have no other purpose in life. I called them degenerates and all the people in the voice chat became super defensive. The server owners name was “Bottiger” but we all know he changed his fucking name 40 times already.
This reminds me of the time when Zesty Jesus pissed off the TF2 emporium virgins so much they cloned his voice with AI and had it read out an "apology" script which was then spread all over Twitter. The internet is a scary place
@TheInfamousWoahgoat I think we need to talk more about what this oh so loving community did to Zesty Jesus. It comes very close to what megascatterbomb suffered through, without the swatting (though people still came to his parent's house to take pictures). And all this happened during when people were delusional enough to keep posting about how great they are as the TF2 Community
Honestly, if you're in NZ and know of someone using AI deepfakes to harass people, call the cops on them. Even if it's some dumb kid, they need the wake-up call.
One thing I hope happens if people finding a way to DDOS attack these harassers, making them incapable of connecting to the internet would be a great way of disabling their abuse. Also obtaining their info and a history of their illegal activities to give to local authorities to get them arrested would be great too.
Valve's famed "flat structure" is to blame for these five years of inaction. Because there's no management, no employee can make any other employee do anything they don't feel like. Thus, if nobody at Valve has any passion for TF2, then nobody at Valve will work on it. We now know that Valve's current employees would much rather spend their time making a low-rent Overwatch clone than keep one of their more profitable games running smoothly, and the shambling mass of money that was once a video game developer will experience no consequences from failing to fix it. The answer isn't to pressure Valve to fix or save TF2. Nobody there feels like doing that. The answer is to convince them to hire people who will.
I've heard that the project managers or whoever is in charge of setting up projects dissapprove of employees not working on their chosen project and the employees can receive penalties or bad reviews or something, so it seems like part of the issue is abuse of power. Idk how true this is tho.
@CSGOCOMPILER What he said above is wrong. Valve runs by employee evaluation reports. It's a lame clique where people who have massive egos have the largest influence. If your other employees don't think you're walking on valuable things, during evaluation they'll say that, and you get fired. People who want to work at TF2 have been hired by valve, literally only to get immediately fired because they're not used to how valve operates and fall for the "you can do what you want" meme.
View and share the bot document here: drive.google.com/file/d/1goBP5DVr0we85Ohnc7IHukOtTS-uISEa/view?usp=sharing
Visit and share save.tf/ to sign the petition and spread resources regarding the bot crisis
#FIXTF2 LETS GOOOO
i cant view the file??
cool document dude. it says the file "is in owner's trash".
The file can't open :(
mfs already crashed the website 💀
Its insane to see how much effort some people put into trying to kill a really old game, and then try to play it cool, But they just end up looking super pathetic
Seen it with BO3 and it makes me sad. These kind of people are miserable with their own lives and it shows
the thing that really broke my heart was deltatronic making fun of rick may
Some of these guys also use the excuse of "I'm letting the devs know how ez it is to hack and trash the game" while failing to realize that it's encouraging Valve even more to shut the game down (lower player count = lower revenue = less reason to keep the game up).
Whats even the point of killing an old game that gives fun to people
Because the only fun that's allowed to them is what they have at the expense of others.
"Could you tell us why you threatened to bomb your university?"
"Okay, so, there's this video game called Team Fortress 2."
"And this one guy made me really mad."
it's honestly so sad this is so common, like the police just turning up asking about the bomb threat then the person says "yeah i've been getting harrassed online"
officers just sigh and get wrapped up in videogame and social media drama they frankly don't have time for.
*Insert the Black Scottish Cyclops clip here*
@@sonicmeerkatdon't have time for? This is a CRIME, isn't it their job to stop this kind of thing?
@@Irish_Enderman a lot of things are crimes and most countries don't have a militerised police force so for those pther nations enforcement goes to loose to non existent.
hell in the uk the police won't do shit if you get robbed, they'll raid drug trafficing but you won't see them turn up to your house even if your garden reaks of skunk.
Swatting isn't a dangerous stunt, its attempted murder.
Nothing has changed from that
They dont get punished for that so why dont they use it
Exactly and why can't they just track the account the bot was using back to the actual bot hoster
Easy come, easy go. We're getting to a literal 'fight fire with fire' point here, someone call up Anon and the 'Goons.
Bro all of these bot hosters are third-worlders. They either don't care or actively WANT you dead.
@@CoralCopperHead these people *are* "anon and the goons"
The bot hosters are exactly the kind of people you'd expect them to be.
Hipocrite and immature, with no spine or accountability, short tempered and with no purpose in their life, resorting to making others miserable for their own short-sighted goals.
And Valve is the negligent parent that has let it get to this point.
This is what happens when you don't whip yo kids
They have what it takes to work for the goverment
@@JaguarPanda Someone get this neckbeard in the oval office!
@@JaguarPanda I think a person with a dog pfp has more chances if it's under the Biden administration.
In other words, they are lonely and miserable nobodies, who’s only goals in life is to make everyone as miserable as they are.
You know shit went down when the class clown gets serious 💀
The anime rule "Never make the smiling guy stop smiling" seems relevant here.
the funny pomson man has stopped the funny, shit's about to get real
I was 14 years old when TF2 botters doxed me for trying to reason with them on one of their subreddits. They attempted to blackmail me and have me send a photo where I hold up a sign promoting a terrorist organization (Forgot which one. Presumably so they could send it to my school or my parents and get me into some sort of trouble). They threatened that if I did NOT do this, they would hack my computer and mess with the things on their. I don't know exactly what they wanted to do, but considering their track record they probably just wanted to take control of my social medias and make me say racial slurs or something like that. For some reason they referred to me as "Miranda". No damn clue where that name comes from, that isn't my real name or anything like my previous internet usernames. I ended up just not using my computer for a week, made a new reddit account and sure enough they forgot about me. To this day I still use that same steam account they found when they doxed me lol. So much for the "We'll hack you if you dont send us this photo!" lmao.
It was foolish of me for trying to reason with them, but it was even more foolish for grown adults to attempt to blackmail a middle schooler. I'm 16 now, I've just given up hope for TF2 and have moved on to other things. Just saw this video in my recommended and got reminded of this whole story.
I'm normally an optimistic guy but I don't think this movement will go anywhere. Valve is banking off of steam and has no reason to care for a 17 year old video game, no matter how much people complain, they won't care. If complaining worked on valve, half life 3 would've been released years ago. In general the amount of time and effort going into these movements is kind of a waste of our time in my opinion, it is just a video game at the end of the day, and being sad and angry about video games for hours at a time isn't a good way to spend your time (trust me, I would know, lol.)
There are more video games out there, and there are more pass times. It's difficult to give up on the things you love, but sometimes you just need to do it.
@Dacstunes if the people who played WoW pulled it off, who is to say *we can't*
@@proxboxgamer69 I'm not sure. I don't know much about blizzard as a company nor anything about warcraft. Maybe it's possible, but these TF2 movements have been going on for years and so far all they managed to receive is bandaid solutions.
@Dacstunes probably because the previous movement was unorganised and planned out poorly, that may be why we only received such small, ineffective solutions. Plus, didn't we stop the protesting when they made that tweet? We should've kept pushing.
@@Dacstunesbad and unorganized movements got the attention of valve, this movement is well planned and concise, it's the best we have mustered so far
Valve is atrocious. #FixTF2.
Honestly I’m a Vavle hater after this video
At this point blizzard with Overwatch are better entities then Vavle
At least they don’t intentionally put their supporters into harms way
BO NOISE BETTER THAN TF2 UA-camRS
@@ScatterBrainedYouBetterFollow Considering what happened a few years ago? I'd still say Blizzard is markedly worse.
@@GoldSpangledBananaBoy 🤓
@@jesusbonoise will these kids just stop with their stupid fuckin' bots already?
I always find it funny when people deem that 1-dimensionally evil characters are unrealistic and badly written when modern day “trolls” exist.
a troll is not a bot hoster. A troll is someone who commits harmless actions against another, like playing to their weaknesses to make them personally upset. It's the internet, getting upset over the internet is inherently pathetic. A bot hoster is actively causing financial harm to an industry. Trolls and bot hosters are not the same.
He said "troll" @@AllTheOthers
Trolls are amusing , bot hosters on the other side...
@@AllTheOthers You are a troll, I presume?
Man I hate seeing the art of trolling get tainted by nasty ass people
(Exaggerating that art part. But come on, admit that some micspam stories are in a league of their own)
trolls than "ha ha you got rickrolled"
Trolls now "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOUR MAD I FALSY ACUSED YOU OF RAPE THAT WAS A JOKE SHOULD BE LAUGHING"
Chat he used the wrong then, should we repossess their house?
dude trolling back then was turning a kids suicide memorial into a lol fest.
I used to love trolling little kids in gta it was hilarious, but now i hear about “trolls” swatting people and stuff and wonder if they ever go outside.
spreading misinformation never felt this good
3rd party viewers like yourself "man im so pissed that these guys ruined the market! they get money, i cant afford hats!!! WTF! wait, nobody will care about that. let me act outraged by them trolling other people! thatll do it!!!!"
Megascatterbomb is a legend, having so many skids direct hate his way is a testament to how well he got under their skin and how much he’s done to fight back. Im so glad you got him to comment on this video, hoping the hosters get put to justice soon.
BO NOISE SAYS THAT TF2 IS THE WORST GAME EVER
We have to help him, if we can get the hoster's names, we can fight back!
@@ghoulbuster1litterally the first point of the video says to not stoop to their level dude. Dont do this.
Skid was a great insult in the 90s. And grub
He's supposedly putting people he doesn't like in the database, even if they're not cheaters. I don't know how true this is, but I've heard it somewhere.
Can't imagine so much nothing going on in life that people setup hardware for the sole purpose of making a game unfun for others online.
It should honestly be a case study
@@JackChung-wo3ky yes, their lives are that empty. so they get enjoyment from harassing everyone else who isn't like them, who isn't willing to lash out at the "normies"
@CSGOCOMPILER brother I haven't touched TF2 in a while and bots have never been an inconvenience to me. There's no happy person on this planet that enjoys ruining things for others so yes I would assume they have a miserable life
BO NOISE BETTER THAN TF2 UA-camRS
@CSGOCOMPILER Not really, someone dedicated enough could infiltrate their circles, find the hosters and pay em a visit.
Whatever happens after is not my problem.
Mega scatter bomb is gonna be a war hero if this ever ends
Bro talking about Valve allowing "atrocities" to happen. Absolutely laughable. He's high on his own supply.
@@AB0BA_69 bro I don't think he means it like that, as in atrocity he means like its arteriosus that this has happened at all. A company is letting a ton of hackers and doxxers run wild and instead of doing something said company just doesn't care.
Like he's basically saying its horrible this has happened, just with stronger wording because it is genuinely awful this had been allowed to continue.
@@commandercody1210 This situation is a bunch of NERDS getting bullied by a smaller bunch of TURBO NERDS.
Valve ignoring this stupid mess (which is limited to ONLY pub servers) is not a violation of the Geneva Conventions and the sooner these people realize that the healthier their lives are going to be.
@@AB0BA_69still, pub servers are a lot easier then community servers
@@AB0BA_69 people's actual addresses are being leaked left and right because of this mess and you're saying it's not a big problem? Just because it happens often doesn't mean it should be seen as normal
no even 30 mins in and they are already ddosing the save.tf page.
what a bunch of sad little script kiddies.
Host error, is that what they did, is that what happens when it's ddos'd
I thought I was the only one who couldn't access it :(
i thought it was just thousands of people logging on to sign the petition, overloading the servers
TF2 UA-camRS ARE WORST LOL
@@vuice6601 aparently it is lmao, look at Weezy's top comment which is where he talks about it
27:13
I don't think they would pay for accounts. If you ask me, it's more likely that they're *stolen accounts,* which is infinitely worse.
Like, imagine you fall for one of those fake pop up browser scams and you lose your entire account to a basement dwelling scumbag that uses it for hate speech.
In the last few weeks I've seen at least 3 bots with unusuals, so it's very likely
actually considering valves competence in security i dont think they even have to dupe you, there is probs a crack in the code that just gives away accounts
At the same time however, you are able to buy items directly off the Mann Co. store for less than a singular USD which will still count towards making your account a premium one; selling afew crates you get daily from said accounts is just enough to buy them and gain access;
Although it's always possible that the hosts also just bruit force the patch and gain access to it regardless.
It's still a possibility that stolen accounts are also involved; nothing moral is stopping these degenerates from doing anything and everything to make everyone else suffer.
you really think an account that has one bought thing and nothing else is stolen? Alright, i guess so..
I honestly don't know which is more pathetic.
Holy shit I live in New Zealand and I remember hearing news about a school/university being evacuated due to a bomb threat, can’t believe it stemmed from tf2 of all things, especially since I’m an active tf2 player.
My yearly check-up to see how TF2 is doing be like; Still infested with bots, Volvo still not doing anything about it.
Understandable, have a nice day.
Also, jesus christ, how bored do you have to be to host these bots for 5 years straight...
VOLVO?
@@Random-user22yeah it’s the best game company wdym you’ve never heard of it?
@@LeopardCatTherian not to be confused with valve, the car company
Ironically Volvo might care more than Valve if they owned the game
well, its their “job”. they all have inventories worth thousands of dollars, likely earned purely from people who buy bot immunity.
they’re also not scared to cheat on their main accounts. met 6 of em in one game a while back - deltatronic’s owner, some skiddo youtuber with
TF2 casual is basically just mvm now
but the bots have aimbot
not in the good way
Lore accurate bots this time now
Mvm hardmode
but only 1 toxic person instead of 6
"we shouldn't stoop to their level" is not the way that this kind of problem can be solved, these losers won't stop unless actual action is took against them, history has proved this many times.
i think so too
but i dont think its that he doesnt think we should stoop down to their level. i think its just that this could be wayyy easier taken down by false reports from the bothosters if he promoted bullying them
I agree@@wenofu477
Sounded like the guy who was talking about not stooping down to their level was afraid of them doing something to him and that's the only reason he said it
@@Meilk27 if he said to stoop down to their level or didnt say not to it would be trivial for the bothosters to get the video taken down
Also them possibly doing something to him is a perfectly reasonable excuse. Thats fair of him
A DDoS attack would shut down the hosts
Dude i am so relived someone is finally talking about it, i was so shocked when a bot said to go to some discord server to get bot immunity
These guys are honestly pathetic losers, the only power of any kind they have is sending bots to the funny ragdoll game to make a miniscule amount of money, then they abuse this for committing felonies, all this only exists due to valves negligence
#FixTF2 #SaveTF2
@@jesusbonoise bad rage bait ❤️
OK so some youtuber is botting these 2 guys to comment under all the comments, you can see the videos through their profile, idke why he's doing this or what he's trying to accomplish
@OFFICERVAPORWAVEhow often does this bait actually work? (Genuine question)
@@will.g9277replying to it at all is a victory for them, just report them for spam
@@EMan-xj5cz almost never, probably. If I had to guess, I’d say their true purpose is to mainly to irritate, making the comment section unpleasant to use, thus discouraging using it and stunting potential conversation as a result, plus drowning out real people. That _might_ be giving them too much “credit”, though.
Guys, just remember, TheWhat has no plans of ending their own life or self harm or dissappearing
took me a while to understand that lol
TheWhat is a hero…*Red dot appears on my head* uuuuuh I mean h-he’s hurting people that just want a good laugh hehe
Boeing is such a great company and could do no evil
It's so sad that TheWhat passed away due to 7 self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the back of the head two weeks from now
their
I can only imagine how down bad you have to be to bot a 15 year old game and commit multiple felonies because someone called you a "sad botter".
Can you imagine these botters finally getting a life, getting married, having kids and a successful job, but suddenly an FBI agent carts them off 5-20 years after their last botting attempt so they can face several counts of tampering with network devices, spreading malware/malicious files etc. and getting sentanced to upwards of 40 years (charges/counts depending)... Imagine potentially ruining your life for a laugh on TF fucking 2....
The reality is, Valve doesn't need to ban the bots, Valve needs to send law enforcement after the bot hosters and hold them directly accountable for their actions with legitimate consequences. Many of these hosters deserve prison time as this behavior is malicious and destructive.
Sending law enforcement to China may be difficult, but yes i agree. This is causing a lot of damage besides not being able to play
One lawsuit for breaking ToS will be enough. But the problem is that you can't sue russian or chinese guy.
bro thinks america is the only country
The problem is that they are limited to the US when it comes to sue them. If they live outside those borders, then their hands are pretty much tied behind their backs.
@@Gaming.Gamer. The US has agreements about such things with well over 200 countries on earth. Even with Russia and China @saiv46 you funny guy.
At the very least they could make sure these people could never travel again outside their non-extradition country, because what they did is actually a crime in most countries.
Valve just doesnt care.
PS; Funny detail, the US is one of the few countries that does not extradite its own citizens
Valve, sue them please. Or tell Nintendo the Bot Hosters have been blasting Copyrighted Nintendo music in chat and linking pirate sites.
Tell Nintendo that cathook is an animal crossing fangame and they'll proceed to call an airstrike on the hosters lmao
I hope it turns into a lawsuit.
Nintendo is far to protective of it's brand, and valve couldn't careless
unironically, it's funny how Nintendo can treath you to take out of the steam workshop a fan made map of a dead child ,and valve not doing shit for the bot problems not only accuring in tf2 but csgo as well, not only ruining the game itself but treathning people as well.
Too*
Its*
Care less*
@@NullyBird thanks mate, i got to get my grammar Better anyway, I'm pretty new to your lenguage
@Landon_08-bd3vc that's alright, you're learning and getting better :>
Honestly this is the story that #FixTF2 and #SaveTF2 SHOULD be leading with, I'm sure many people who have been following the bot problem aren't even aware that things have gotten this bad, to the point that bot hosters are targeting individuals, impersonating them, making death threats, bomb threats, and generally trying to ruin people's lives for speaking out. We can leave aside the "we love TF2 wholesome chungus" stuff for when these issues have been sorted, we need people to know this is not just about fixing a video game, and that Valve have effectively allowed and profited from illegal activity that have targeted innocent people.
When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. It is now time for us to do the same.
BO NOISE SAYS THAT TF2 IS THE WORST GAME EVER
reminds me of something ZestyJesus said about the last #saveTF2 and how we need to pretty much rub Valve's nose in the problem like we're punishing a dog. It sucks it has to come to this, but I'll be damned if it isn't necessary.
Absolute chad for using a Bible Verse
amen to that, brother.
@@jesusbonoise is this all you have to do all day?
Its funny how hard these bot hosters just cope and seethe when given the slightest amount of resistance.
They live off reactions, so the moment there's push back they start screeching
lol, yeah. it's honestly funny when scumbags like them mald.
@@Sleepy_CabbageI’d pay good money to see them start up a fuss with DSP detractors or any community that’ll clap back twice as hard. They’ll learn very, very quickly to understand how their victims feel firsthand.
Valve's lack of action could cost peoples lives. This is sickening.
Lmao
@@dissraps rude
When I first heard the A.I voices somewhere in a casual match similar to the one in 16:05. I thought it sounded hilarious, but now when it's revealed it was meant to shame megascatterbomb and punish him for no reason, I'm disgusted.
It's not for no reason, they hate him because he's putting in real work to stop them.
Honestly same, I was laughing my ass of when I first heard the bots over vc. Pretty lame that it's one of our own they're fucking with.
@@WallaWaller I appreciate his effort but I doubt an OPEN SOURCE project will last long or be effective. At least with what I know about his project so far, I may be out of the loop by now
BO NOISE SAYS THAT TF2 IS THE WORST GAME EVER
There's many open source projects that thrive@@CharaGonzalez-lt7yw
Valve: Ok guys I know people are literally committing crimes in our game and we will do nothing about but do mind giving us $9.99 to dance
Imagine willingly buying that emote garbage worksloppers crap out so VALVE can add it. People need to stop buying workslop content on principle
XD
@@CharaGonzalez-lt7yw "worksloppers" lmao
BO NOISE SAYS THAT TF2 IS THE WORST GAME EVER
@@mikonson4091 it's the only term I can use to describe them st this point
The new extraction shooter valve is working on will be flodded by bots on day 1.
now that a playable build has leaked outright and appears to be using the same VAC as tf2 and cs2, there is a very high likelihood for bots
I know this shouldn't be my takeaway, but ain't no way this dude uses the sandman AND the back-scatter. Actual menace
The fact that all Valve needs to do is to incorporate a community plugin and it would kill like 90% of all bots it's wild to me
the bot makers are probably not trying to find workarounds for plugins that community servers use, if valve implemented it in their own servers where all the bot traffic is, i'm sure the bot makers would find ways around it like any other anti-cheat that seemingly works great at first and then the cheat is recreated again to mask it in a way that cant be detected
valve's even made a few updates where afterwards the bots were broken and nowhere to be seen but then they were back after a day
@@gratianray2 Oh I'm certain they would but the point is to make it annoying enough that the bulk of them stop trying cuz it's irritating to keep recoding every few weeks. Cuz if Valve intentionally broke the bots that's probably how long it would take to fix them
what do these do
play community instead of whining
@@me67galaxylife Ah yes, let us just cede casual, the place where all new players will go, to bots and make it incredibly difficult to get new fans. Great plan
Love how huge this movement is looking compared to the 2022 one and it's not even june 3rd yet. What organisation does, great to see it!
>Yikes! It's just like in my heckin' marvel movie! avengers assemble to save tf2! the power of friendship will defeat the voldemort or however the bots are being hosted! this will definitely work!
@@gl4dius4pple75wrong demographic, just makes u look mad
considering the main cathook github is down, wouldn't it be funny if somebody started passing around a modified version that maybe perhaps has some other fun stuff hidden inside it? maybe a goofy little keylogger or something, iunno :3
and you'd be right! I tell ya, it's not pretty at all
if you wanna get jailed lmao, bot hosts have the upper hand, unless their doxxes come out i doubt anything will make it stop.
hahaha, script kiddies installing keyloggers on their PC's would be really funny.
One would not be surprised to find some code obfuscation inside a cheat program. It wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to add something that enables, say, remote code execution, or encrypted calls to the Google geoloc API
I can see why they call you mudbrain
The fact that valve has the gall to make a new IP when they can't even take care of their current ones is beyond ridiculous.
# SAVETF2 IS FAILED IMAGINE DUDE
the uttp is back at it again with being a minor annoyance to anybody they can
@@jesusbonoise you guys are gonna get baaaad karma sooner or later.
@@josiahgames2134the uttp has done way worse than minor annoyance in the past unfortunately
Also given that vavle thinking doing more security measures is a trendmill problem and how even counter striker is dealing with bots, I am worry that bot hoster can move over deadlock, ruin games and vavle being slow on it. seriously I can see that happening
The fact that we live in times where trash like that can litteraly impersonate your voice or generally photoshop you into oblivion is scary stuff imagine the future when you'll litteraly have no proof over something you never said or did, its scary to think about
Dont post pictures of yourself on the internet. Social media is a trap and its bad for mental health anyway. Strictly anonymous internet use is the only way to go.
yea it’s genuinely scary what’s achievable through technology and the internet
It'll happen to them as well
Nah I think we should absolutely stoop to their level. These people need to be outed, shamed and publicly exposed. They are actively ruining a giant game and harassing people, Mr. Nice Guy wont do anything
Real
Agreed, give us those names
It turns from a massacre into an all out war.
A war by which all will be caught in the crossfire.
While you're at it might as well search their hard drives. People who do this kind of degenerate behavior always have some weird shit or someone's personal info for God knows what reasons there. That is if someone ends up having a reason to investigate them in a legal way.
i have the face of one of omegatronic friends, pasted it on tf2 for my demoknight loadout
bot hosters are just sad children in adult's bodies. They're gamer rage personified, and their parents probably failed to raise them to the point where they don't even realize what they're doing is wrong, or even know it's wrong but do it anyway for kicks. Genuinely the saddest I've been for someone I will never know.
they are like children who try to feel superior by killing ants.
all they want is the slightest bit of attention and "superiority"
Meanwhile they seem to be making more money just letting a virtual machine idle 24/7 and you spent your time eulogizing their success. Reality is they are literally winning, and you're just offering a boomerism! As if the moral victory of pseudo-profound-feel-goods are the real aspirational goal!
Zesty Jesus is also a vital individual who gave the TF2 community the necessary reality check they desperately needed. It isn't just the cheater bots but its also the idler and trader bots that artificially inflate the player count you see on Steam so he can't be removed from the equation as the bot hosters are angry at him as well because he exposed how truly bad the bot crisis has gotten.
but he says mean words and hurts my feelings :(
@@King_Jockey At least he brought much more awareness to this problem that many other prominent people in the TF2 community didn't despite some people trying too but they were either ignored or dismissed out right.
@@jasonallen6918 his, for lack of a better word, "douchey" but realistic attitude is what gets him heat in the community and also what gets people to hear out what he says
he doesn't sugarcout his topics and be gentle with what he says, he rips the band aid off and it "hurts" people because they know that he's right most of the time
what people hate him for is exactly what I like about him
He has been best in pointing out 3 major things and highly bringing them out to all tf2 public ----
--- NERF SNIPER
---- CONSERVE AND PROTECT TF2's BEAUTIFUL CARTOONY ARTSTYLE AND GRAPHICS
--- MAJOR AMOUNT OF CHEATER AND IDLE TRADING BOTS
@@King_Jockey He does get really angry when talking about a few things though, especially the Short Circuit. He said it was more broken than the Wrangler on his engineer tier list video, and I don’t understand how somebody could reach that conclusion
The thing that I always think is, how miserable these bot hosters have to ruin fun of a dying game.
It's not dying dude what is even dying? It's still has decent players
@@bullet3417 "Decent players" 70% of the playerbase has been confirmed to be bots.
@@m8.614 20k is still a big number for old game even zesty said it himself dude...
@@bullet3417 neglecting a dead game how original
@@Redmont_ what is dead game give me an explanation? It has players dude...
As a member of the virgin community we do not act like this
yeah your right, it's not the virgin community that does shit like this. it's the turbo virgin community that does shit like this.
yeah don't worry man, your good. if anything we blame the turbo virgin community
@@skeletonmemelord7779As a member of the TURBO virgin community we do not act like this
@@watcha27 We may not have bitches but at least we have morals.
Do we instead blame the twin turbo virgin community?
"in an attempt to stop the bots from spreading raclst messages in text and voice chat, Valve restricted the ability for non-payment accounts to communicate."
That wasn't an attempt to stop bots from spreading raclst messages, that was an attempt to get more money out of free players.
Whats the point in making the game free to play if to play it properly you gotta buy something anyway, that’s always confused me…
and an attempt to look good for the online news sites
that was such a terrible change, it didnt solve the problem and only made the game worse. all restricting chat for f2ps did was drive away new players and kill the game even more
no it wasnt they have very little reason to squeeze more money in tf2 thats just dumb. it was a shitty and lazy attempt to “fix it”. it was more or less a way to make us shut up about tf2.
@@headshot531 Bruh. You really think a corporation won't try to maximize profits even by the slightest amounts when there’s no cost to them? If so, you don't know how corporations work.
It's incredible how if this was any other company, adding more things to spend money on in their game while it's official servers are quite literally unplayable, they would be ridiculed to hell. But it's valve, so people are just weirdly dismissive about Valve's inaction.
Valve hasn't done shit for the game for almost 10 years so nobody is really surprised or mad anymore.
Valve is gaming industry's manifestation of the sin of Sloth, and as far as sinful gaming companies go - that is just the least offensive one. Very much "the lesser poison" situation. It got its drawbacks, but on another hand it could be way worse like pushing various nonsense and censoring "outdated" and "problematic" content and what not.
My personal relationship with Valve is like Swanson from The Office: "we still don't talk sometimes".
right?! I’ve been saying this for years! For some reason people still pretend that Valve is the same Valve from before 2012 when they arent.
#FixTF2
We're not letting them win lads, get on it!
#SAVETF2 YESSS
Stay strong lads!
#FixTF2 #SaveTF2
this is lame and overall will get you nowhere
@@soggu6282ok bot
I find it weird how the main thing these bot hosters tend to jump to is immediately calling their opposition pedophiles
Tbf, that seems to be, like, most of the internet for some reason?
I was only active on twitter for like 6 months 2 years ago but I saw a really concerning amount of drama related to that kinda stuff, and while it wasnt the main reason I stopped using it, it was definitely one of them.
Even on Discord which I do still use daily, *most* of the servers I've ever been on have had at least 1 drama involving accusations of that (of which only a couple actually had any kind of evidence) and it just gets so tiring
Its gotten to the point that I've been so desensitized to it that I just cant help but roll my eyes now any time I see accusations like that online, which I *know* is a bad thing caus it *is* a serious issue that shouldnt be taken lightly...
@@haceofspades7682 It's unfortunately become just another buzzword. It's being stripped of it's meaning, which is straight up dangerous
Projecting. It's simple projection. 100% chance you'll find cp on their harddrives
@@BebsHD Terabytes and terabytes for sure
@@BebsHDtheir bots are literally promoting that shit
There's a special place in hell for all the bot hosters lol
And for all valve employees that activly ignored this
I wonder what's up with that?
@@Darumaster they dont want to even touch the code of tf2. however i assume we can have the steam team develop bot detection systems on *their* end, to help with the bot problem through that method
@@D-N-0well the thing is, employees don’t all get all get a choice.
Higher ups get them all to go to different games/projects to further develop them.
UTTP vs bot hosters
the cyberstalking and harassment these bot hosters do is inhuman
2:40 the thought that stooping to the level of evil people makes you worse than them is propaganda made by people who want good people to ignore their misdeeds. It’s bullshit. Reply to evil actions with extreme prejudice or live as a slave to ruthless people.
@@dissraps L-Take from an L-oser
“Reply to evil actions with extreme prejudice or live as a slave to ruthless people.”
INSANELY based.
completely agree
These attention whores need MORE attention!
This is the single truth of this world that the Establishment is desperate to keep obfuscated. That you do stoop to that level, and you do use violence.
L4D2 is also plagued with cheaters and humiliating scumbags. It’s not a bot issue, and the DDoss problems actually get addressed but Valve games are just too easy to exploit and abuse. You mention the “treadmill” and they’ve been running on it for the last year with L4D2’s security. Just look at the patch history.
Them deciding to work on a new game like “Deadlock” instead of addressing their problems head on is not a good look. Public reaction to that games reveal might be a wake up call… or they might double down on their arrogance, who knows?
Jesus, I knew that CS and TF2 have a cheating/bot problem, but L4D2??? Really??? They're this low now???
what could theyve done doe lmao. what's even the background of this? how are they easy to exploit and abuse?
@@JoeJoseph-zb1zo I said they’re easy to exploit because the official Valve servers have been getting ddossed for a long time now. They fix it and it comes back like a revolving door. At least they seem to be trying, but it’s not good enough.
People report vulnerabilities to Valve on a platform called “HackerOne”. They offer a lot of money to hackers in exchange of security benefits. Lots of issues regarding L4D2 and TF2 can be resolved using HackerOne reports, but Valves main concern with HackerOne is ensuring the best for the Steam client. Game vulnerabilities seem like a secondary concern to them.
And of course, Valves anti cheat is useless. Installing an undetectable cheat menu isn’t hard
I can’t believe a group of assholes on the internet made a false bomb threat and had police show up to an innocent man’s door all because he spoke out against them. That is an actual felony offense in most parts of the world. #FixTF2
Personally I sent an e-mail to Gabe's Valve contact address linking to this video and the Google Document, pleading for Valve to take action.
I doubt it'll do much but here's hope.
Dear Serilaene, we hear you! We love this game and know you do, too. We see how large this issue has become and are working to improve things.
@@iskanderrg Yeah that's pretty much the only answer I'm expecting lmao
If we win this war, youll be remember as a war hero
@@Lawyermanstarlo Hell no I'm no hero I'm just a random bastard on the internet.
@@Serilaene You at least deserve a thank you for contributing.
The boycotting microtransactions should go double for youtubers planning on doing "unboxing 100 cases" videos. They shouldnt get harrassment if they do make those videos this summer but, itd be really helpful if they simply didn't make those right when the update drops. That'd be great :/
# SAVETF2 IS FAILED IMAGINE DUDE
not sure unboxers buy keys from the game but from other websites to not give money to valve and also its cheaper, nothing wrong with wanting the stuff from the cases, theres just a workaround
They should get harassment if they do those videos
This video NEEDS to be shared like crazy on June 3rd, this truly puts this entire situation into perspective and is a hard reality check. Thanks for making it.
dude the reactions are crazy
-kick your bot blu
-kick bot
-theres a bot
Or us arguing about who’s a bot or not. Many innocent shall be kicked, the bots will howel!
"We like to see people's reactions"
Their reactions:
RED: You've got bot on your team, blues, can you?
BLU: Sure thing.
I am Pyro. I hope the bot crisis ends. #FixTF2
we meet for the third time, i'm still hw guy (edit: #FixTF2 )
Even the pyro tf2 hates the bots
MMMMHMHMHAHMM
@@LeopardCatTherian hey even heavy hate little baby bots!
HMMF HMMMMFFF
I knew how obnoxious and persistent the hosters were, but I didn't realize how far they've taken this until now.
I've been waiting a few days at this point to verify my email on the petition, but once I get the email, you can bet my name will be there.
LAMO EVEN!
Dude. Petitions do literally nothing. Especially some email petition. Unless you can reasonably pose a threat to the physical security of the party you are "petitioning" nothing will ever come of it. I don't care if you got 5 billion signatures. No potential for physical reaction? Might as well be lining a bird cage.
Five years have gone by
With malicious bots roaming
Enough is enough
#FixTF2
#haiku
By this point I wouldn't be shocked if there was a full on protest in front of Valve HQ
Lets make it happen
CRY ABOUT IT, TF2 IS DYING LOLOLOLO
Honestly we should do this
@@jesusbonoiseSTOP YAPPING
@@bwalimniadit’s a bot, don’t give them attention just report them for spam
holy i didnt realise it was that bad i started playing quite recently. stay safe man thank you for realising this info to the public id never have the confidence to do it. i have nothing but respect for you
its not trolling when it becomes literally psychopathy
@CSGOCOMPILER what?
and dude, I'm 18, gfy.
@CSGOCOMPILERdawg what?
@CSGOCOMPILER you're a child predator I wouldn't be talking if I were you
@CSGOCOMPILER Dawg, this shots dangerous
@@Cast-Carnival you're literally a fetus
It’s a testament to how good the game is that it hasn’t just died from the bot crisis. It’s insane how neglectful valve is to a player base that dedicated. It’s their obligation to fix this even if they don’t want to because it’s a product they actively sell
see, thats where your wrong. it has died. very few people are playing, and the numbers are dwindling. I used to spend hours and hours every day playing tf2, and now i haven't touched the game in about a month, and everytime I boot it up, it's just not that fun with all these bots. and there is no influx of new players, as very will download the game considering it is so old and many are deterred from that, and then the few that do will just see that the game is in shambles and never play again. the few that still play to this day are the die hard tf2 veterans, and the newbies that weren't exposed to bots right away.
It's also a testament to how important it is to let the community host their own servers.
Games allowing dedicated servers is a lost art these days, leading to them dying easily as soon as bad actors flood servers, or they get shut down by the company owning it.
@@Chimpin_ not really, its still top 100 game based on if tf2 player count is 15000
@@cheesechess-tr7pd yes, that is true. but do you know what the numbers read in total? 77k as of writing this comment. if 15k humans are playing at a time, which is actually true as proven by zesty jesus, that means that 62k out of the 77k players are BOTS. THERE ARE MORE BOTS THAN THERE ARE HUMAN PLAYERS. that is the reason why this entire campaign has booted back up, its because zesty jesus proved that tf2 is one of the most heavily botted games on steam. and really, compared to other valve games like dota and cs2 which consistently hit 1 million concurrent players, 15k people are really not that much at all.
people haven't seemed to watched zesty jesus latest video. watch it. it provides important insight into the whole campaign and shocking facts. not giving any spoilers, but lets just say that he proves there are more bots in tf2 than humans.
these hosters are actual criminals that could be put into jail for their actions, but valve....
Valve does not care.
and they making money from the bots
@@randomstuff-f3p ☠️
Any time I think about hopping back on TF2, I see stuff like this. The fact these hosts are doing things like swatting just so they can keep their bots going is absurd. And those message pics of them using the N-Word over and over...some people never seem to mentally age out of middle school.
And their feelings get so violently hurt for being called idiotic they hurl insults instead of having any level of rationality. All their online efforts are dedicated *_solely_* to being emotional (angry and spireful) to fester off the reactions
community servers are better and funner
@@apricotAfterglow If i have to actively avoid the OFFICIAL servers to even play the game, something is horribly wrong
Dubai servers never saw bots in any games rarely once every 20 games, those servers are now filled with bots rather than players.
BO NOISE BETTER THAN TF2 UA-camRS
As someone that doesn't actually play TF2 I hope interacting with the video is enough to help
glad to see the bot hosters are the exact kind of people we’d think they are, they have a damn channel that’s just the hard R
TF2 UA-camRS ARE WORST LOL
They wanted attention, we give them attention
@@starmaker75 We gotta give them a little to much attention, if you know what I'm hinting.
@@ghoulbuster1
I do think there's an easy way. By law, Discord is required to hand over data to the federal government for use in investigations. We simply ask for a control point hint hint. Maybe some leaked military documents too~
@@Demopans5990oh yea that's a thing (though it's really only effective on accounts with nitro)
Hope to eventually read a bot hoster's obituary one day.
BO NOISE BETTER THAN TF2 UA-camRS
Hope it's gruesome!
Huh, those guys are spamming the comment section. As I'll say, they're just UTTP, ignore them, since it's most likely they're unaffiliated with Bot Hosters.
@@dooggo-1402that's another flavor of bot problem
W mans
Thank you for this vid. I just tried to play TF2 with my boyfriend and we had to quit due to the bots and I had no idea what was going on so this helped me understand
Prisoner 1: “I ran over the neighbor’s kid while drunk”
Prisoner 2: “I robbed a bank and killed the teller”
TF2 bot hoster: “I- Well I… uh…”
Bot hoster trying to sound better: "i swatted multiple people, ran a virtual crime mob and ddossed my opposition"
Prisoner 3: "you're a bot hoster aren't you"
Bot hoster: "yeah.."
@@mishagaming1075Prison guard: ...you make these 2 look like saints, you bastard. Have you no decency?
2:38 "they ever hit you doc, you hit back twice as hard, you hear me?"
I call this era. Called "The Bot Era" 2019-2024
whose gonna infiltrate (get a job at) valve “fuck it i’ll do it myself” style
Fuck it. I'll send in an application.
I'm like halfway across the country they ain't gonna pick me, but it's worth it for the funny.
I wish, but im not old enough, and i dont knos how to code. Maybe some day, but that some day will most likely be too late to save tf2
Wanna bring the four channers to valve? /j
.....yea they're definitely desperate for 13 year old youtube commenters to come cry about a 17 year old dead game.
If they had any actual skills at anything worthwhile they wouldn't be crying about literally nothing
@@dissraps brother just hates fun
6:59 for your youtube account's safety, PLEASE censor the last frames of the clip for a few more seconds
Don't worry it says "niger" (like the country) not the n-word
What's there? I can't see it
TF2 UA-camRS ARE WORST LOL
@@piperbarlow1672the n slur is showed for a split second on the discord channels
@@jesusbonoise yo virgin bot hoster spotted lol
The fact that megascatterbomb had children trying to defame him, these guys have nothing better to do :/ Disappoints me that this is the world we live in
The stupid logic of "not stooping to their leve" is the reason they still have the foothold they have. Valve at this point seems to actively refuse to deal with the issue. So we are just supposed to put up with it because "take the higher ground"? What is the point.
Exactly, this kind of mindset is ridiculous, and it's the reason why the bots are still an issue cause the bothoster don't feel in any real danger.
Yeah, I agree. Some people in this community even know WHO the bot makers are. But, oh, they won't say who because they want to "protect them".
Well, you know what they say. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." And if that prize is a little too much for you to handle.... Then please, don't play the game.
Instead of just stooping to their level, we set the conditions for hosters to hoist their own petards. We can fight dirty, and we can fight with grace
A tiny hint: The tf2 client trusts server downloads in their entirety.
Its disgusting and morally wrong to me that some stupid basement kids ruin a 17 year old game for 5 years straight just because they want some attention they didnt get as a child
maybe if their parents did better casual would be a more enjoyable experience
Fr
What i dont get is how TF2 specifically aludes these type of people.
@@UmiZoomRbeing F2P and neglected.
Hollow knight players: waiting for silksong
Tf2 players: waiting for their favorite game to become playable again
Can we please arrest these idiots
Its very hard to track them and only officials can do it overwise its cyber crime.
honestly buddy, i wish it were that simple...
Who is the official one can arrested?
@@djankobekir9721 police and other people who is specified to track these criminals but its easy to not get tracked down.
fair but
they got a fairly obvious discord where they leak personal billing info, if you can use that to track the funds you can easily capture them (hypothetical method for the feds, not me)
I do hope Valve understands the lack of any effort to solve this issue only allows the bot-hosters to feel more comfortable and thus they'll feel more confident in bolder, more insane and elaborate ways to bring harm, be it physically; mentally, emotionally or virtually; to the community. I would not be surprised if they go as far as going after Valve in future, I mean, it's not Valve cares right?
I of course dont want it to come to that. But it's sad to think that that might be the only way Valve achknowledges the issue.
It's embarrasing for Valve.
BO NOISE SAYS THAT TF2 IS THE WORST GAME EVER
Just remember, valve is an enterprise, they want money. Working to fix this problem doesnt really bring them money, so they really don't care.
It’s fucking terrifying that playing a game you love could risk your life.
i remember when you had around 40k, you’ve come a long way :)
Sent an email to Penguinz0 about this linking the video and the doc and more info, because why not
A couple days ago I witnessed a bot spamming somebody’s IP address. That shit is crazy.
Edit: I’m like 99% sure most of these comments are just bots lol
It was probably their own IP
CRY ABOUT IT, TF2 IS DYING LOLOLOLO
@@jesusbonoise wow, look at all these people who care about what you say. Oh wait, there are none.
# SAVETF2 IS FAILED IMAGINE DUDE
These are bots, aren't they
If only Valve weren't such a small and new indie company with only a couple of employees 😔😔
While I don't agree with the idea that someone who doxxes a bot hoster is no better than them, everything else about the video is the kind of thing more people need to be aware of, so thank you for making it and spreading the word.
THIS is the level of severity we always needed savetf2 to be treated with. THIS is a good start, lets hope what you guys have in store will REALLY rip valve a new one
BO NOISE SAYS THAT TF2 IS THE WORST GAME EVER
Lessons from this:
Matchmaking breeds cheaters, let players host servers.
The owning companies often CAN do something about bots.
I like cheese.
I was initially more positive about matchmaking than most were, but in hindsight, Quickplay was an absolute marvel of a feature- the fact that they were able to officially sanction and run easily accessible community-hosted and community-moderated servers is genuinely something that in the landscape of modern day matchmaking-based shooters would and should be groundbreaking, and instead, they took it the only time ever that they needed to do what everyone _else_ was doing. You're telling me you had the ability to reduce hosting AND moderation costs, improve the accessibility and user experience of server browser-based matchmaking which games like the original two or three Halo games proved could be INCREDIBLY successful, and still provide a baseline, mostly vanilla experience that was entirely within your control, something any developer with any integrity should have been CLAMORING for, and you THREW IT AWAY?
If names are out there and there's proof, I can't understand why Valve's not spamming the lawsuit button on them. They don't even have to address the issue on the code level, just let their lawyers loose.
Because they can get settlement money from them
@CSGOCOMPILERactually, the potential damages that could be argued would be in the tens-hundreds of thousands per target
Literal millions could be squeezed out of this
Disgusting, genuinely I don't understand how a human can have so much hate in them... I hope they find the right path in life one day.
The bot hosters act exactly how I imagined they did before I watched this video.
These probably aren’t children, which makes all of this significantly more pathetic
They have to be adults with literally nothing else to live for
i can only imagine that the moment they can't do this anymore, that's it for them.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” is a quote that we can use for this entire video. If we ignore the cheaters, let the game die for a certain amount of time, they, themselves, shall feel bad, down the gutter, even if they feel happy that its dead then. God may forgive them, but I wont.
At this point these "bot hosters" are practically criminals than trolls.
Anyone else misses 2011-2013 tf2 and years in general?
BO NOISE BETTER THAN TF2 UA-camRS
@@jesusbonoise what
@OFFICERVAPORWAVE it peaked last year, 16 years after releases “lolololol”
@@ssssssssssssssssss50 its a bot don’t reply
@@ssssssssssssssssss50I mean that peak was mostly bots
I saw a youtuber named 'Zesty Jesus' explain how most of TF2's player base is made up of just bots (estimated around 70%).
Putting that together with how Valve is most likely making money from these bots, who are spending money for the sake of spamming all kinds of awful crap, makes this a terrifying situation.
Not all of those bots are the cheating ones. The grand majority do other things.
@@FletcherCat True, such as Idle bots who just sit on the main menu to collect items for reselling.
@@FletcherCat as true as that is, it's still not a good thing that 70% of TF2's player base isn't even real.
TheWhatShow I found myself on a Bot Hoster community server after the bot takedown from Valve, it’s like they’re going in hiding since they have no other purpose in life.
I called them degenerates and all the people in the voice chat became super defensive.
The server owners name was “Bottiger” but we all know he changed his fucking name 40 times already.
16:25
That was an AI voice of HIM???
It was so bad I always thought it was just some random text-to-speech narrator xd
I couldn't even recognize it.
Same here never heard the similarity
This reminds me of the time when Zesty Jesus pissed off the TF2 emporium virgins so much they cloned his voice with AI and had it read out an "apology" script which was then spread all over Twitter. The internet is a scary place
@@CharaGonzalez-lt7yw The less positive things we can say about Edgy Rick the better. Even if the people who attack him deserve it.
@TheInfamousWoahgoat I think we need to talk more about what this oh so loving community did to Zesty Jesus. It comes very close to what megascatterbomb suffered through, without the swatting (though people still came to his parent's house to take pictures). And all this happened during when people were delusional enough to keep posting about how great they are as the TF2 Community
@@TheInfamousWoahgoat ?
So these bots can brazenly break the law and nothing can be done about it? I'm so confused
The internet is still very much the wild west. This is tame, others lives can be ruined
Honestly, if you're in NZ and know of someone using AI deepfakes to harass people, call the cops on them. Even if it's some dumb kid, they need the wake-up call.
surprised they arent updating from swatting to "marking as international terrorist"
Volvo just refuses to do anything
They are being investigated regardless of what volvo does
You gotta report them to the relevant authorities, but would rather be trending on Twitter than actually work for their game.
One thing I hope happens if people finding a way to DDOS attack these harassers, making them incapable of connecting to the internet would be a great way of disabling their abuse. Also obtaining their info and a history of their illegal activities to give to local authorities to get them arrested would be great too.
Agreed
Valve's famed "flat structure" is to blame for these five years of inaction. Because there's no management, no employee can make any other employee do anything they don't feel like. Thus, if nobody at Valve has any passion for TF2, then nobody at Valve will work on it. We now know that Valve's current employees would much rather spend their time making a low-rent Overwatch clone than keep one of their more profitable games running smoothly, and the shambling mass of money that was once a video game developer will experience no consequences from failing to fix it.
The answer isn't to pressure Valve to fix or save TF2. Nobody there feels like doing that.
The answer is to convince them to hire people who will.
@CSGOCOMPILER Maybe nobody spending time on their hobby. Good thing they are employees.
I've heard that the project managers or whoever is in charge of setting up projects dissapprove of employees not working on their chosen project and the employees can receive penalties or bad reviews or something, so it seems like part of the issue is abuse of power. Idk how true this is tho.
@CSGOCOMPILERWith 8 billion people in the world, I highly doubt that.
@CSGOCOMPILER What he said above is wrong. Valve runs by employee evaluation reports. It's a lame clique where people who have massive egos have the largest influence. If your other employees don't think you're walking on valuable things, during evaluation they'll say that, and you get fired.
People who want to work at TF2 have been hired by valve, literally only to get immediately fired because they're not used to how valve operates and fall for the "you can do what you want" meme.
@CSGOCOMPILER There are plenty of hobbyists working on TF2 eg mastercoms. Valve can just hire them.